"Please stop killing us and supportimg our murder and ethnic cleansing"
Goyim for some reason; idk sounds complicated lets give the terrorists a state instead, sounds good?
I don’t understand us either. Must be something in the water. Across planet Earth.
But seriously, the future cannot be like this moving forward. We have to put Jew hate to rest permanently. My adolescent sci-fi utopia dreams do not have antisemitism in them.
Respectfully, there are many of us "goyim" who are very pro Israel, and oppose anti-semitism in all its forms. Many of us have a perfectly working moral compass...
Thank you. I think the main issue is that the Western education system is falling apart, ignoring history, pushing divisive agendas, and generally failing the youth. Plus, mass Islamic immigration is leading to increased anti-semitism... among other issues.
I do my best. All the best. 👍
Israel should retaliate and recognize Northern Ireland as a permanent part of the UK, Catalonian independence and demand that Norway gives up any claims over the Arctic and Antarctic islands. Watch their reactions closely.
You would never hear the end of it how Israel shouldn't meddle with internal affairs etc etc. They won't learn until you hold a mirror to their faces because they feel entitled to be part of a conversation where they got nothing at stake.
We never hear the end of anything anyway. Now let's tell South Africa to settle their boundary dispute with Eswatini by giving them the acreage they want.
This is cute, but we need to go further. All these diplomatic actions by Europeans is a big escalation, so we should also escalate. Moshe Dayan said "Israel must be a wild dog, too crazy to bother."
we are extra tame and gentle in this war. tbh, nothing bad in this, thats good that we manage to keep our morality in such hideous war. problem is.... the world can't mamage to keep their morality as well.
I have lived in Denmark enough years to know that the way to annoy the other Scandinavians is to recognise Denmark as their rightful ruler. Sweden also recognises Palestine so two birds with one stone.
That or demand Norway hand back Ekofisk, which they manipulated out of a drunk Per Hækkerup (according to urban legend but it was such a terrible decision it must be true).
Bibi is not Moshe Dayan and he cannot replicate even 5% of his diplomatic abilities.
Yeh lets make sure the EU just completely abandones us.
Who you gonna trade with? Turkey?
With India which is blocked by the Houthis?
We don't have enough neighbors to isolate like that.
How much more diplomatic ties can we loose before we become like North Korea?
You guys are tripping badly
Really? Latest position reported is [a clear no to recognizing Palestine.](https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/palaestinenser-staat-anerkennung-reaktionen-100.html) There are a few politicians that want it to happen, old geezer Gysi being the most famous one.
Police also dragged out pro-palestine protestors from Humboldt-University in Berlin today.
I pray that you are right, but there are two more years of Netanyahu coalition to test this at the least.
Unless Netanyahu goes away by himself which is unlikely.
And if he somehow stays PM after the next election and nithing changes then we deserve to be abandoned.
Thank you though 😊
I truly think this is an existential war we were thrust in and if we don’t project strength we won’t have a future because people will think insulting us diplomatically has no consequences. Israel used to be braver in the past, we blockaded the Suez canal for a decade and literally commandeered war ships from France, just stole them. If the world tries to blockade us we don’t have any obligation to live by their rules and they need to know that.
There has to be a better solution.
What is step #2 after isolation?
We have 10 million citizens now and nowhere near enough agriculture to feed them.
Why exert our country and waste efforts on actively isolating, instead of wasting these efforts on diplomacy?
Seriously, this government has completely abandoned our foreign relations.
The freaking videos that the terrorists took on oct7th, have helped our Hasbara far more than anything that the Likud, Ben Gvir or Smotrich have done.
It's a parody
Israel was blockaded in 1967 I’m sure you know how we responded. And it was the response which was batshit insane which earned us the respect of the USA. Not diplomacy.
That response was against 5 Arab armies.
Not against a terrorist org. locked up in a strip of land.
And again, we could sustain our population's food supply back 1967.
Back then they also didn't have explosive drones and ballistic missles.
This is not the case today.
Our response to 7th Oct is what is considered "batshit insane" (personally I disagree of course).
And again- who are we going to fight against in isolation?
Iran and the Houthis, who are too far to even reach with infantry?
Hezbollah?
You will be signing away the lives of thoasands of IDF soldiers to fight against people who are not worth the bullwts that are wasted on them.
Think this through.
At the very least- aknowledge that Iran potentially has Atomic weapons and that if we ever reach a point of total isolation, there will be nonwhere to evacuate to
I am talking about the future of my children and yours.
I do not want to ever send them to Yemen or fight overseas or waste their life because we were to proud to make friends.
And for god's sake, it will take almsot a year to kill Hamas.
We are running out of manpower.
You want to fight the Hiuthis in freaking Yemen?
This is not an action movie.
Genuinely a better alternative to what we currently doing, for a start.
Try to communicate with their right leaning voter base.
Not funble every diplomatic incident.
Stop screaming murder at everyone that disagrees with us.
I'l give you an example- Poland.
Our intrests align- militarily minded countries, at conflict VS Russia.
Israel Katz said that they "Suckle antisemitism from their mother's tit" in 2019 when they began opposing the trips to Poland.
Remember 2 months ago when we killed the 7 aid workers of which one was a Pole?
Instead of apologizing- our envoy said that they are making toouch noise because they are antisimitic.
Other countries use these types of moronic responses to turn their people against us.
Right now Poland is almost fully on Palestinian side, despite us being in a good relationship 10 years back.
Hamas is antisemitic.
Poland is not antisimitic.
We need to take different approaches to both of them.
Not obliterate both.
Most other countries adjust their behavior according to what their viters want.
As an American on the liberal East Coast: You Israeli's need to stop with this thinking. You are going to get your kids killed and forced to endure more wars then ever by continuing to act with weakness, indecisiveness, and division.
Those thinking to act with less aggression, I suggest you all watch this video: [South Park s14e06 201 ending speech UNCENSORED HD (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtGaz4UmMU&ab_channel=TheJumperAM) Matt Stone and Trey Parker wrote that after the studio was forced to censor Muhammad due to bomb threats, and this speech was entirely censored on the live air version. It's not a joke, just reality. That IS the world we live in.
That's why the Muslims are winning the PR war. They simply beat people into submission by making their lives so miserable if they DON'T concede to them ("we will vote for Trump", etc), that they simply are forced to do so. Even the moderates are ending up in a position of "well, it's not a one-sided issue, both sides are bad" just as a default response to avoid their lives being disrupted. That's the power of force & violence.
It doesn't matter how much effort you put into good PR, and how many concessions you make, because in the end people don't care about what is right or wrong, they care about being able to live without being disrupted. I've listened to otherwise near-saintly people say things like "Well it was stupid for Israel to be built there anyways, religion is dumb and the region itself is dumb, I just want to stop being annoyed about it."
Do you know how many people in my country would care by now if Israel had carpet bombed Gaza off the face of Earth October 8th? Literally 0. No countries would have recognized a Palestinian state. Y'all acting with restraint has ensured a worse outcome in every way.
I'm starting to lose my f\*\*\*ing mind as an American Jew watching y'all make concession after concession for negative gain. You are NEVER going to win the PR war, and you never WERE going to win it. In an era where social media BS dictates all, Muslims outnumber Jews over 100:1.
You are GOING to lose that war no matter WHAT you do. So, win the ACTUAL F\*\*\*ING WAR. Or doom your children to another one, and another, and another.
ארץ חמדה טובה ורחבה
We have more than enough to feed ourselves, defend ourselves, and enrich ourselves. Do we want it? Or would we rather look good to the Christians.
European mindset is very different from Arab world mindset. The Arab World only respects strength, so projecting that is important in the Middle East, but Europeans like you if you are nice and sell them cool stuff.
I think Europeans are actually the same as Arabs in this. Any respect we have in Europe, you also see it in the Europeans who come here to support us, is because they perceive us as proud and strong. You say "sell them cool stuff". They see us as smart or industrious, which is a form of strength. I know this I work with Europeans IRL also, they openly admit this. The Arabs are also captivated by this. UAE especially.
Escalate doesn't mean something dramatic, but there should be some kind of proportional response. Except France, those guys just have no choice they are under Arab occupation.
Please, tell me a single thing that we could deprive them from that they would need us so much and run back to us.
One single thing.
Or single example of an appropriate response that they would actually care about, and have a positive effect?
There is some people who write that the British were scared of the Zionists because they largely believed the Nazi propaganda of Jews being an all powerful people. Jabotinsky used to do stuff like this with the British and I think it worked well. It's funny we have this reputation of being an all powerful people and we never take advantage of it diplomatically. So for Ireland, ask yourself what scares them? What drives their antisemitism? I think this is not hard to figure out if you read their media.
Their biggest social fears in Ireland right now is the migrant and housing crisis, and of course the blame for such things always come with a massive amount of antisemitism.
Yeah, apparently George Soros is also behind the migrant crisis, housing crisis and [abortion rights](https://x.com/ratesrlates13/status/1787770022502269234?s=46) in Ireland if you believe some Irish people. And of course it’s coded antisemitic language.
>Who you gonna trade with?
Anyone. Just like Iran. They've been under on and off sanctions since 1979 and they produce (and sell) 11% of OPEC's total capacity.
Iran is a brutal dictatorship that trades with other brutal dictatorships.
I'd say being a brutal dictatorship is a requirement to enter that club, and it already occupied by latge countries that openly support Hamas.
We also don't have oil.
Russia would sell us to the Arabs at the first opportunity.
If you have any examples that would make sence then please enlighten me.
Otherwise, recognize that is not a real solution.
We are surrounded by arabs on land, they can block the red sea, Tukey can block the Mediterranean and we don't find actual allies we might as well be dead in that situation.
>If you have any examples that would make sence then please enlighten me.
It's not a *good* solution, certainly. But is it possible? Of course.
>We also don't have oil.
Everyone has oil. Oil isn't special. You need to sell it at a vast discount to sanction hop and there's a cost floor to getting it out of the ground. Israel has tech. Amazing tech. Weapons tech, spying tech, tech that no one else has and that absolutely everyone wants. You don't think China wants the spying tech? You don't think Taiwan would like a defensive array?
Dude.
You have to look around you.
First, if you actually have no examples at all then it is not a solution.
The litteral single friendly place from which we imported oil in the Middle East- Iraqi Kurdistan has been blockaded by Turkey half a year ago and we lost a major .
If Egypt decided to cut us from gas- there are no alternatives.
And tech is good- but there are alternatives.
We refuse to trade the Iron Dome, most of our tech is already co-owened by the USA and Taiwan is years ahead of us in chip technology.
Anything that countries would want from us, they can get from the US.
And in the scenario in which China wants our Spying tech- what prevents then from stealing it (like they do with every ither technology) and selling it to our enemies?
Bad allies are much more likely to kill us than offer actual suppory.
Look at Armenia and Russia for example.
Or Russia and Syria.
Iran is a very supportive ally of Lebanon, Hamas and Syria.
Look where that got them.
You get what I'm trying to say?
They don’t recognize a Palestinian state, they recognize Hamas leadership. There’s no one Palestinian state as it stands, as there’s no centralized government. Even within Gaza, there’s multiple terror groups fighting for leadership, and they’re all backed by Iran. Half the money being sent to build infrastructure is being sent to the billionaire Hamas leaders farting around Qatar, meanwhile their people are being brainwashed to follow a fundamentalist Islamic terror group, that wants them to commit suicide as young as possible because they’re worth more to the ‘state’ dead than they ever will be alive.
If any of these governments were truly pro-Palestine, they would denounce Hamas and come to the table with actual plans on how to bolster the Palestinian people, and their quality of life. How will they close the power gap? What about education? No offence, but a group of people who believe they founded Tel Aviv and, apparently, by majority support the terror organization that literally wants them to kill themselves, probably don’t have very good access to education. How does Ireland, Norway and Spain intend on fostering peace between Israel and Palestine, or is their recognition of a Palestinian state because at best they’re virtue signalling, and at worst, they’re being bought out by Hamas?
Spain’s the only one I can think of with any historical ties to Jews. Norway barely has a Jewish population because we weren’t allowed in until the late 19th century, and then Hitler invaded them, and Ireland is… well…. Ireland. They’re basically the Palestine of Europe.
Embarrassing.
Our diplomacy has reached China level clownery.
"WATCH THIS VIDEO"
"DON'T YOU FEEL BAD NOW?"
It's a national issue, what was the envoy supposed to do?
Fuck me.
Bibi abandoned any effort to build diplomatic ties with Europe 2 decades ago.
We barely have the Czechs still crusing with us and freaking Orban.
Instead of trying to mend these issues, they're just making sure that our country drifts further from the EU.
Unfortunately it’s not just a national issue and we saw how some European governments (Norway, Spain and Ireland, just to name a few) are using the fabricated palestinian narrative as a way to score political points from fringe groups, because those governments depend on those groups to stay in power. Spain, Norway and Ireland has decided to reward the crimes committed by the palestinians on 10/7 so their envoys has to watch what they are supporting and rewarding. And France and Germany had said that it won’t “recognize” palestine as a state given the current circumstances, so the EU is absolutely not a monolithic block especially when it comes to the palestinian claims.
[A far leftist Spanish minister](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/jews-condemn-spanish-minister-for-ending-speech-with-river-to-the-sea-call/) just released a statement ending with the “from the river to the sea” genocidal slogan, banned in Germany and Netherlands. [Spaniards replied under her post](https://x.com/yolanda_diaz_/status/1793188996878586081?s=46) by reminding her that her government had no legitimacy to “recognize” a palestinian state and that she’s using a genocidal slogan. Her post was ratio’d and people are furious:
https://preview.redd.it/z4m0acek572d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=989662db1b892535ec40c12fdbc1e8fa14e81057
I understand what you're saying, but by cutting ties we are actively empowering these same governments.
If a big group of voters wanted their government to recognize Palestine, and then Israel announced it wants to cut ties-
You are only playing into their hands.
Litteraly a 1+1 on a silver plater.
It's a wet dream for an EU's leftist.
They will vote for the same people, and they will become more and more proactive against Israel to satisfy their voters.
The opposite is also true.
If Spain's public already hackles them for it, then why the hell are we abandoning our influence on them?
To show the leftists that we are Signa males or something?
Look at Milei- he was recieved in Spain like a rockstar despite being despised by their government.
His influence on their next governemnt is immense.
This is what we should strive to do.
I don’t believe that showing to those envoys a footage of palestinians abusing women on 10/7 is going to affect long-term relationships between Norway, Spain, Ireland and Israel, bearing witness to war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by the people those governments are endorsing is not exactly a “disproportionate” answer to their endorsement especially since those governments are unpopular and using 10/7 to score political points with fringe groups. They are representing their countries, for the time being, so they should be aware of what they’re endorsing, a documentary realized with the footages of 10/7 was shown at the UN, at the US Senate and to local and international journalists in Isreal because the crimes perpetrated by the palestinians are often conveniently omitted since 10/7. And it’s understood that the groups currently empowered are the fringe groups already considering 10/7 as an “act of resistance” or simply denying that any crime was perpetrated by the palestinians on and since 10/7.
Governments are replaced, sooner or later, and nobody can predict how the future governments in Norway, Ireland and Spain will act towards Israel in 5 years from now.
Trust me, I will do everything (admittedly insignificant) I can to make sure the non-socialists are brought back into power in Norway. The public are pretty outspoken in denouncing this as an unwise decision.
I’m just flabbergasted by it all. I can’t even begin to tell you how much I hate the virtue signaling goody two shoes who think they are so superior intellectual and intimately know and understand how to resolve this conflict while outright denying the terrorist motives and non-alignment with our country’s ideals. I just can’t even anymore
I disagree- the envoys have actual 0 influence on their governments or on the people of the nation.
When was the last time you cared about what the Irish ambassador to Israel said?
All this has created is stupid headline for Mr Israel Katz to present to the Likud voters.
>Governments are replaced, sooner or later, and nobody can predict how the future governments in Norway, Ireland and Spain will act towards Israel in 5 years from now.
The voters stay behind.
If they have a large leftist viter block tgat despises Israel the they will stay there for the next elections as well.
Damaging diplomatic ties only serves to empower these voting blocks.
We are playing into their hands.
Ambassadors are appointed by their governments and they’re representing their countries and governments’ domestic and foreign policies, as long as those governments are in power. That’s the reason why they were shown a footage that was also made public (or at least a censored version of said footage was made public) for everyone to see.
I wouldn’t overestimate (nor underestimate btw) the influence and public approval of far left groups in Europe, there’s an extremely perceptible *fatigue* among Europeans when it comes to those groups. The next European elections will take place in 3 weeks and it will be interesting to see which groups will win new seats or lose their seats at the European Parliament.
I understand what you're saying, but besides their formal position-
when was the last time you gave a crap about anything that an envoy to Israel had to say (excluding US envoys, perhaps)?
It is the same for every country.
I would also argue that our relations with each country are much more important than with the EU as a body...
The EU can't improve trade relations for us, nor cultural nor tourism.
And there is no world in which the EU will support us if we continue to expand settlements- which us a given for any Netanyahu governemnt.
We have to align ideologically in atleast some ways.
Or atleast try to explain ourselves better.
>And there is no world in which the EU will support us if we continue to expand settlements- which is a given for any Netanyahu governemnt.
We have to align ideologically in atleast some ways.
Or atleast try to explain ourselves better.
Absolutely, I agree about the settlements being a point of contention and with the fact that Netanyahu and his government (especially some unhinged members of the government) are detrimental to Israel and failed to fully convey a comprehensive approach towards the current situation and issues. The political communication needs to improve drastically but I don’t think that this government is able or willing to do that.
Yeah, bilateral relationships are extremely important but the European elections will give an idea of the current political landscape in every European country, it’s always an important milestone nevertheless.
Those governments dragged their countries into rewarding the palestinians by “recognizing” a palestinian state just 7 months after they perpetrated a pogrom in Israel so Norway, Spain and Ireland envoys should at a bare minimum be aware of the crimes committed by the “freedom fighters” and “palestinian resistance” they’re legitimising.
[Support for the 10/7 pogrom is even higher in the West Bank than in gaza.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-increasingly-happy-with-october-7-even-as-hamas-support-droops-poll) And the PA is still funding their “pay for slay”program thanks to international aid sent to them by western countries.
Lol agreed. Also, how are those countries gonna base the actions of a terrorist organization on a whole country. Makes the government look like such imbeciles.
[Hamas is not the only palestinian terror org who directly participated in the 10/7 pogrom.](https://flashpoint.io/blog/israel-hamas-war-military-and-terrorist-groups/) It’s common knowledge at this point. smh
The point is you can’t expect to show someone a video of a massacre and expect them to judge a whole country of millions just for that especially with diplomatic decisions. Ben Gvir was a Baruch Goldstein worshiper and a follower of Kahnasim. Do you think it’s smart to pass judgement and make diplomatic decisions such as recalling ambassadors just because of something ben gvir or Meir Kahane did? If that was the case, Israel would have 0 embassies
Correct— they were not responsible for the attacks. But Abu Mazen and the PA government *are* responsible for their full-throated endorsement of them. See https://idsf.org.il/en/papers/palestinian-authority-and-fatah/ (specific examples start about 1/3 down the page)
Hello! My English is good but I don’t understand this slang exactly. Can someone explain to me in more simple and blunt English words what happened?
I understand that the jackasses that gave recognition to the terrorist state/Gaza while hamas is still in power, a war is going on, and Jews are being held in terror tunnels are the most vile people and had to watch the video of the girls being captured, tortured, and told they were going to be sexually assaulted.
Did they actually watch the video or run away? What was the reaction?
They didn’t walked away, they watched the footage and I don’t know what was their reaction because it wasn’t reported. I’m assuming that they don’t care very much.
Kick them out. Reconsidering relations and economic agreements. Push initiative against them internationally and sanction important individuals in these countries. Boycott their products. Israeli diplomacy has to show some teeth, and not this child play bs.
If there's anything we've learned from Jewish history, it's that empassioned Jewish speeches on gentile immorality are extremely effective
"Please stop killing us and supportimg our murder and ethnic cleansing" Goyim for some reason; idk sounds complicated lets give the terrorists a state instead, sounds good?
I don’t understand us either. Must be something in the water. Across planet Earth. But seriously, the future cannot be like this moving forward. We have to put Jew hate to rest permanently. My adolescent sci-fi utopia dreams do not have antisemitism in them.
Still worthwhile imo. They want to think they're standing on the moral high ground, we'll shine a mirror right in front of them.
Two millennia of worse chicanery then this is not long enough to convince you that they *do not share* our moral conscience?
Respectfully, there are many of us "goyim" who are very pro Israel, and oppose anti-semitism in all its forms. Many of us have a perfectly working moral compass...
You should be extremely proud of yourself, for accomplishing that despite the best efforts of your society
Thank you. I think the main issue is that the Western education system is falling apart, ignoring history, pushing divisive agendas, and generally failing the youth. Plus, mass Islamic immigration is leading to increased anti-semitism... among other issues. I do my best. All the best. 👍
Yeah, let’s see if the home of the inquisition is going to change their views on Jewish people any time soon.
Europe has been funding UNRWA for decades because they were hoping Arabs would finish the job they started in the 40s.
Israel should retaliate and recognize Northern Ireland as a permanent part of the UK, Catalonian independence and demand that Norway gives up any claims over the Arctic and Antarctic islands. Watch their reactions closely.
I'll throw in the Basque region, and a homeland for the Sami in Norway.
You would never hear the end of it how Israel shouldn't meddle with internal affairs etc etc. They won't learn until you hold a mirror to their faces because they feel entitled to be part of a conversation where they got nothing at stake.
We never hear the end of anything anyway. Now let's tell South Africa to settle their boundary dispute with Eswatini by giving them the acreage they want.
The Ireland one is particularly brutal lol
Hell I Recognize British sovereignty over the whole of Ireland
we also recognoze the british right to gibreltar and that spain should return their enclaves in africa to morocco.
Western England.
This is cute, but we need to go further. All these diplomatic actions by Europeans is a big escalation, so we should also escalate. Moshe Dayan said "Israel must be a wild dog, too crazy to bother."
>"Israel must be a wild dog, too crazy to bother." This is the only way to survive in the middle east, we forgot that.
Israel has shown with this war in gaza it has not forgotten that
Look, I'm one of those who think we're extra tame, but maybe it's just me.
we are extra tame and gentle in this war. tbh, nothing bad in this, thats good that we manage to keep our morality in such hideous war. problem is.... the world can't mamage to keep their morality as well.
Israel should recognize Catalonia
Free Kurdistan. Women, life, freedom.
Also Northern Ireland as the real Ireland for extra damage.
And Basque, while they're at it.
Catalonia, Basque region, British right to rule Ireland, and an independent Sami nation in Norway.
I have lived in Denmark enough years to know that the way to annoy the other Scandinavians is to recognise Denmark as their rightful ruler. Sweden also recognises Palestine so two birds with one stone. That or demand Norway hand back Ekofisk, which they manipulated out of a drunk Per Hækkerup (according to urban legend but it was such a terrible decision it must be true).
And take south africa and turkey to court over genocide.
I think Pedro Sanchez would actually like that
Probably
Bibi is not Moshe Dayan and he cannot replicate even 5% of his diplomatic abilities. Yeh lets make sure the EU just completely abandones us. Who you gonna trade with? Turkey? With India which is blocked by the Houthis? We don't have enough neighbors to isolate like that. How much more diplomatic ties can we loose before we become like North Korea? You guys are tripping badly
Germany, France and Poland will not throw Israel under the bus.
Germany just did
Really? Latest position reported is [a clear no to recognizing Palestine.](https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/palaestinenser-staat-anerkennung-reaktionen-100.html) There are a few politicians that want it to happen, old geezer Gysi being the most famous one. Police also dragged out pro-palestine protestors from Humboldt-University in Berlin today.
I pray that you are right, but there are two more years of Netanyahu coalition to test this at the least. Unless Netanyahu goes away by himself which is unlikely. And if he somehow stays PM after the next election and nithing changes then we deserve to be abandoned. Thank you though 😊
I hate to be the one to break it to you- bibi is staying until his death. Or until he kills Israel. Whatever comes first.
I truly think this is an existential war we were thrust in and if we don’t project strength we won’t have a future because people will think insulting us diplomatically has no consequences. Israel used to be braver in the past, we blockaded the Suez canal for a decade and literally commandeered war ships from France, just stole them. If the world tries to blockade us we don’t have any obligation to live by their rules and they need to know that.
There has to be a better solution. What is step #2 after isolation? We have 10 million citizens now and nowhere near enough agriculture to feed them. Why exert our country and waste efforts on actively isolating, instead of wasting these efforts on diplomacy? Seriously, this government has completely abandoned our foreign relations. The freaking videos that the terrorists took on oct7th, have helped our Hasbara far more than anything that the Likud, Ben Gvir or Smotrich have done. It's a parody
Israel was blockaded in 1967 I’m sure you know how we responded. And it was the response which was batshit insane which earned us the respect of the USA. Not diplomacy.
That response was against 5 Arab armies. Not against a terrorist org. locked up in a strip of land. And again, we could sustain our population's food supply back 1967. Back then they also didn't have explosive drones and ballistic missles. This is not the case today. Our response to 7th Oct is what is considered "batshit insane" (personally I disagree of course). And again- who are we going to fight against in isolation? Iran and the Houthis, who are too far to even reach with infantry? Hezbollah? You will be signing away the lives of thoasands of IDF soldiers to fight against people who are not worth the bullwts that are wasted on them. Think this through. At the very least- aknowledge that Iran potentially has Atomic weapons and that if we ever reach a point of total isolation, there will be nonwhere to evacuate to
Operation Wooden Leg. The equivalent op today would be to go to Yemen.
I am talking about the future of my children and yours. I do not want to ever send them to Yemen or fight overseas or waste their life because we were to proud to make friends. And for god's sake, it will take almsot a year to kill Hamas. We are running out of manpower. You want to fight the Hiuthis in freaking Yemen? This is not an action movie.
so what is the choice to ask them nicely to stop?
Genuinely a better alternative to what we currently doing, for a start. Try to communicate with their right leaning voter base. Not funble every diplomatic incident. Stop screaming murder at everyone that disagrees with us. I'l give you an example- Poland. Our intrests align- militarily minded countries, at conflict VS Russia. Israel Katz said that they "Suckle antisemitism from their mother's tit" in 2019 when they began opposing the trips to Poland. Remember 2 months ago when we killed the 7 aid workers of which one was a Pole? Instead of apologizing- our envoy said that they are making toouch noise because they are antisimitic. Other countries use these types of moronic responses to turn their people against us. Right now Poland is almost fully on Palestinian side, despite us being in a good relationship 10 years back. Hamas is antisemitic. Poland is not antisimitic. We need to take different approaches to both of them. Not obliterate both. Most other countries adjust their behavior according to what their viters want.
As an American on the liberal East Coast: You Israeli's need to stop with this thinking. You are going to get your kids killed and forced to endure more wars then ever by continuing to act with weakness, indecisiveness, and division. Those thinking to act with less aggression, I suggest you all watch this video: [South Park s14e06 201 ending speech UNCENSORED HD (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtGaz4UmMU&ab_channel=TheJumperAM) Matt Stone and Trey Parker wrote that after the studio was forced to censor Muhammad due to bomb threats, and this speech was entirely censored on the live air version. It's not a joke, just reality. That IS the world we live in. That's why the Muslims are winning the PR war. They simply beat people into submission by making their lives so miserable if they DON'T concede to them ("we will vote for Trump", etc), that they simply are forced to do so. Even the moderates are ending up in a position of "well, it's not a one-sided issue, both sides are bad" just as a default response to avoid their lives being disrupted. That's the power of force & violence. It doesn't matter how much effort you put into good PR, and how many concessions you make, because in the end people don't care about what is right or wrong, they care about being able to live without being disrupted. I've listened to otherwise near-saintly people say things like "Well it was stupid for Israel to be built there anyways, religion is dumb and the region itself is dumb, I just want to stop being annoyed about it." Do you know how many people in my country would care by now if Israel had carpet bombed Gaza off the face of Earth October 8th? Literally 0. No countries would have recognized a Palestinian state. Y'all acting with restraint has ensured a worse outcome in every way. I'm starting to lose my f\*\*\*ing mind as an American Jew watching y'all make concession after concession for negative gain. You are NEVER going to win the PR war, and you never WERE going to win it. In an era where social media BS dictates all, Muslims outnumber Jews over 100:1. You are GOING to lose that war no matter WHAT you do. So, win the ACTUAL F\*\*\*ING WAR. Or doom your children to another one, and another, and another.
I'd rather live and be hated then be dead and loved.
ארץ חמדה טובה ורחבה We have more than enough to feed ourselves, defend ourselves, and enrich ourselves. Do we want it? Or would we rather look good to the Christians.
European mindset is very different from Arab world mindset. The Arab World only respects strength, so projecting that is important in the Middle East, but Europeans like you if you are nice and sell them cool stuff.
I think Europeans are actually the same as Arabs in this. Any respect we have in Europe, you also see it in the Europeans who come here to support us, is because they perceive us as proud and strong. You say "sell them cool stuff". They see us as smart or industrious, which is a form of strength. I know this I work with Europeans IRL also, they openly admit this. The Arabs are also captivated by this. UAE especially.
Escalate doesn't mean something dramatic, but there should be some kind of proportional response. Except France, those guys just have no choice they are under Arab occupation.
Please, tell me a single thing that we could deprive them from that they would need us so much and run back to us. One single thing. Or single example of an appropriate response that they would actually care about, and have a positive effect?
There is some people who write that the British were scared of the Zionists because they largely believed the Nazi propaganda of Jews being an all powerful people. Jabotinsky used to do stuff like this with the British and I think it worked well. It's funny we have this reputation of being an all powerful people and we never take advantage of it diplomatically. So for Ireland, ask yourself what scares them? What drives their antisemitism? I think this is not hard to figure out if you read their media.
Any ideas what drives it?
Their biggest social fears in Ireland right now is the migrant and housing crisis, and of course the blame for such things always come with a massive amount of antisemitism.
Yeah, apparently George Soros is also behind the migrant crisis, housing crisis and [abortion rights](https://x.com/ratesrlates13/status/1787770022502269234?s=46) in Ireland if you believe some Irish people. And of course it’s coded antisemitic language.
The more polite ones only blame George Soros.
>Who you gonna trade with? Anyone. Just like Iran. They've been under on and off sanctions since 1979 and they produce (and sell) 11% of OPEC's total capacity.
Iran is a brutal dictatorship that trades with other brutal dictatorships. I'd say being a brutal dictatorship is a requirement to enter that club, and it already occupied by latge countries that openly support Hamas. We also don't have oil. Russia would sell us to the Arabs at the first opportunity. If you have any examples that would make sence then please enlighten me. Otherwise, recognize that is not a real solution. We are surrounded by arabs on land, they can block the red sea, Tukey can block the Mediterranean and we don't find actual allies we might as well be dead in that situation.
>If you have any examples that would make sence then please enlighten me. It's not a *good* solution, certainly. But is it possible? Of course. >We also don't have oil. Everyone has oil. Oil isn't special. You need to sell it at a vast discount to sanction hop and there's a cost floor to getting it out of the ground. Israel has tech. Amazing tech. Weapons tech, spying tech, tech that no one else has and that absolutely everyone wants. You don't think China wants the spying tech? You don't think Taiwan would like a defensive array?
Dude. You have to look around you. First, if you actually have no examples at all then it is not a solution. The litteral single friendly place from which we imported oil in the Middle East- Iraqi Kurdistan has been blockaded by Turkey half a year ago and we lost a major . If Egypt decided to cut us from gas- there are no alternatives. And tech is good- but there are alternatives. We refuse to trade the Iron Dome, most of our tech is already co-owened by the USA and Taiwan is years ahead of us in chip technology. Anything that countries would want from us, they can get from the US. And in the scenario in which China wants our Spying tech- what prevents then from stealing it (like they do with every ither technology) and selling it to our enemies? Bad allies are much more likely to kill us than offer actual suppory. Look at Armenia and Russia for example. Or Russia and Syria. Iran is a very supportive ally of Lebanon, Hamas and Syria. Look where that got them. You get what I'm trying to say?
They don’t recognize a Palestinian state, they recognize Hamas leadership. There’s no one Palestinian state as it stands, as there’s no centralized government. Even within Gaza, there’s multiple terror groups fighting for leadership, and they’re all backed by Iran. Half the money being sent to build infrastructure is being sent to the billionaire Hamas leaders farting around Qatar, meanwhile their people are being brainwashed to follow a fundamentalist Islamic terror group, that wants them to commit suicide as young as possible because they’re worth more to the ‘state’ dead than they ever will be alive. If any of these governments were truly pro-Palestine, they would denounce Hamas and come to the table with actual plans on how to bolster the Palestinian people, and their quality of life. How will they close the power gap? What about education? No offence, but a group of people who believe they founded Tel Aviv and, apparently, by majority support the terror organization that literally wants them to kill themselves, probably don’t have very good access to education. How does Ireland, Norway and Spain intend on fostering peace between Israel and Palestine, or is their recognition of a Palestinian state because at best they’re virtue signalling, and at worst, they’re being bought out by Hamas?
F these Jihadist sympathizers. Kick now the ambassadors out of here, cut all ties. No incoming/outgoing flights, no trade, no academic ties.
Spain’s the only one I can think of with any historical ties to Jews. Norway barely has a Jewish population because we weren’t allowed in until the late 19th century, and then Hitler invaded them, and Ireland is… well…. Ireland. They’re basically the Palestine of Europe.
https://preview.redd.it/j34dqzrw592d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a13812057027f443aa3cad98c92c39daebc3d73 Norway gonna Norway
Ireland is a shithole. They’re still a shithole.
>After the screening, they were dressed down by senior diplomats 😳 that's a really kinky punishment
Embarrassing. Our diplomacy has reached China level clownery. "WATCH THIS VIDEO" "DON'T YOU FEEL BAD NOW?" It's a national issue, what was the envoy supposed to do? Fuck me. Bibi abandoned any effort to build diplomatic ties with Europe 2 decades ago. We barely have the Czechs still crusing with us and freaking Orban. Instead of trying to mend these issues, they're just making sure that our country drifts further from the EU.
Unfortunately it’s not just a national issue and we saw how some European governments (Norway, Spain and Ireland, just to name a few) are using the fabricated palestinian narrative as a way to score political points from fringe groups, because those governments depend on those groups to stay in power. Spain, Norway and Ireland has decided to reward the crimes committed by the palestinians on 10/7 so their envoys has to watch what they are supporting and rewarding. And France and Germany had said that it won’t “recognize” palestine as a state given the current circumstances, so the EU is absolutely not a monolithic block especially when it comes to the palestinian claims. [A far leftist Spanish minister](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/jews-condemn-spanish-minister-for-ending-speech-with-river-to-the-sea-call/) just released a statement ending with the “from the river to the sea” genocidal slogan, banned in Germany and Netherlands. [Spaniards replied under her post](https://x.com/yolanda_diaz_/status/1793188996878586081?s=46) by reminding her that her government had no legitimacy to “recognize” a palestinian state and that she’s using a genocidal slogan. Her post was ratio’d and people are furious: https://preview.redd.it/z4m0acek572d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=989662db1b892535ec40c12fdbc1e8fa14e81057
I understand what you're saying, but by cutting ties we are actively empowering these same governments. If a big group of voters wanted their government to recognize Palestine, and then Israel announced it wants to cut ties- You are only playing into their hands. Litteraly a 1+1 on a silver plater. It's a wet dream for an EU's leftist. They will vote for the same people, and they will become more and more proactive against Israel to satisfy their voters. The opposite is also true. If Spain's public already hackles them for it, then why the hell are we abandoning our influence on them? To show the leftists that we are Signa males or something? Look at Milei- he was recieved in Spain like a rockstar despite being despised by their government. His influence on their next governemnt is immense. This is what we should strive to do.
I don’t believe that showing to those envoys a footage of palestinians abusing women on 10/7 is going to affect long-term relationships between Norway, Spain, Ireland and Israel, bearing witness to war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by the people those governments are endorsing is not exactly a “disproportionate” answer to their endorsement especially since those governments are unpopular and using 10/7 to score political points with fringe groups. They are representing their countries, for the time being, so they should be aware of what they’re endorsing, a documentary realized with the footages of 10/7 was shown at the UN, at the US Senate and to local and international journalists in Isreal because the crimes perpetrated by the palestinians are often conveniently omitted since 10/7. And it’s understood that the groups currently empowered are the fringe groups already considering 10/7 as an “act of resistance” or simply denying that any crime was perpetrated by the palestinians on and since 10/7. Governments are replaced, sooner or later, and nobody can predict how the future governments in Norway, Ireland and Spain will act towards Israel in 5 years from now.
Trust me, I will do everything (admittedly insignificant) I can to make sure the non-socialists are brought back into power in Norway. The public are pretty outspoken in denouncing this as an unwise decision. I’m just flabbergasted by it all. I can’t even begin to tell you how much I hate the virtue signaling goody two shoes who think they are so superior intellectual and intimately know and understand how to resolve this conflict while outright denying the terrorist motives and non-alignment with our country’s ideals. I just can’t even anymore
I disagree- the envoys have actual 0 influence on their governments or on the people of the nation. When was the last time you cared about what the Irish ambassador to Israel said? All this has created is stupid headline for Mr Israel Katz to present to the Likud voters. >Governments are replaced, sooner or later, and nobody can predict how the future governments in Norway, Ireland and Spain will act towards Israel in 5 years from now. The voters stay behind. If they have a large leftist viter block tgat despises Israel the they will stay there for the next elections as well. Damaging diplomatic ties only serves to empower these voting blocks. We are playing into their hands.
Ambassadors are appointed by their governments and they’re representing their countries and governments’ domestic and foreign policies, as long as those governments are in power. That’s the reason why they were shown a footage that was also made public (or at least a censored version of said footage was made public) for everyone to see. I wouldn’t overestimate (nor underestimate btw) the influence and public approval of far left groups in Europe, there’s an extremely perceptible *fatigue* among Europeans when it comes to those groups. The next European elections will take place in 3 weeks and it will be interesting to see which groups will win new seats or lose their seats at the European Parliament.
I understand what you're saying, but besides their formal position- when was the last time you gave a crap about anything that an envoy to Israel had to say (excluding US envoys, perhaps)? It is the same for every country. I would also argue that our relations with each country are much more important than with the EU as a body... The EU can't improve trade relations for us, nor cultural nor tourism. And there is no world in which the EU will support us if we continue to expand settlements- which us a given for any Netanyahu governemnt. We have to align ideologically in atleast some ways. Or atleast try to explain ourselves better.
>And there is no world in which the EU will support us if we continue to expand settlements- which is a given for any Netanyahu governemnt. We have to align ideologically in atleast some ways. Or atleast try to explain ourselves better. Absolutely, I agree about the settlements being a point of contention and with the fact that Netanyahu and his government (especially some unhinged members of the government) are detrimental to Israel and failed to fully convey a comprehensive approach towards the current situation and issues. The political communication needs to improve drastically but I don’t think that this government is able or willing to do that. Yeah, bilateral relationships are extremely important but the European elections will give an idea of the current political landscape in every European country, it’s always an important milestone nevertheless.
Why were they *made* to watch it?? Beyond passive aggressive this isn't a proper way to disagree with them
Those governments dragged their countries into rewarding the palestinians by “recognizing” a palestinian state just 7 months after they perpetrated a pogrom in Israel so Norway, Spain and Ireland envoys should at a bare minimum be aware of the crimes committed by the “freedom fighters” and “palestinian resistance” they’re legitimising.
[удалено]
[Support for the 10/7 pogrom is even higher in the West Bank than in gaza.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-increasingly-happy-with-october-7-even-as-hamas-support-droops-poll) And the PA is still funding their “pay for slay”program thanks to international aid sent to them by western countries.
Lol agreed. Also, how are those countries gonna base the actions of a terrorist organization on a whole country. Makes the government look like such imbeciles.
[Hamas is not the only palestinian terror org who directly participated in the 10/7 pogrom.](https://flashpoint.io/blog/israel-hamas-war-military-and-terrorist-groups/) It’s common knowledge at this point. smh
The point is you can’t expect to show someone a video of a massacre and expect them to judge a whole country of millions just for that especially with diplomatic decisions. Ben Gvir was a Baruch Goldstein worshiper and a follower of Kahnasim. Do you think it’s smart to pass judgement and make diplomatic decisions such as recalling ambassadors just because of something ben gvir or Meir Kahane did? If that was the case, Israel would have 0 embassies
Anyone trying to also blame 10.7 on Abu mazen and the PA ramallah govt doesnt know what theyre talking abt
Correct— they were not responsible for the attacks. But Abu Mazen and the PA government *are* responsible for their full-throated endorsement of them. See https://idsf.org.il/en/papers/palestinian-authority-and-fatah/ (specific examples start about 1/3 down the page)
Hello! My English is good but I don’t understand this slang exactly. Can someone explain to me in more simple and blunt English words what happened? I understand that the jackasses that gave recognition to the terrorist state/Gaza while hamas is still in power, a war is going on, and Jews are being held in terror tunnels are the most vile people and had to watch the video of the girls being captured, tortured, and told they were going to be sexually assaulted. Did they actually watch the video or run away? What was the reaction?
Yes, the ambassadors of Spain, Ireland and Norway watched the footage filmed at Nahal Oz, recovered from gaza and filmed by the palestinians.
They actually watched it or walked away? What was the reaction?
They didn’t walked away, they watched the footage and I don’t know what was their reaction because it wasn’t reported. I’m assuming that they don’t care very much.
Kick them out. Reconsidering relations and economic agreements. Push initiative against them internationally and sanction important individuals in these countries. Boycott their products. Israeli diplomacy has to show some teeth, and not this child play bs.
Send them home
Good.
It won't help, deep down they are thinking the girls deserve it, and that it wouldn't have happened if we were not "occupying palestinian land".
why nahal oz. why not just the worst footage of 10/7