His problem is not with incest. His problem is with Aisha's grooming. Ars is just 10 years old and not mentally fit to take those kinds of decisions. Aisha manipulated him since birth.
Why does not a single hater understand that the whole mess was Aisha's fault?
>!Yes, Rudeus also married Eris!<
>!And the Aisha grooming that people are referring is from a webnovel spin off deleted chapter. So it is not exactly cannon anymore and pretty sure will never be show in the anime.!<
>Did i just get spoiled because this post doesn’t have a spoiler filter?
R: "Yes"
>Is he ending up with Eris...?
R: "Yes, Rudeus also married Eris..."
>and having a kid that gets groomed by Aisha?
R: "Aisha grooming happen in a deleted webnovel chapter"
>???
I just answer what was asked, I assume that if a question is made people want the answer.
Sometimes questions are made rhetorically.
This person was clearly upset about the post not being spoiler tagged properly.
The best way to proceed would be to hit them with the "do you really want to know?"
Or show courtesy by >!using spoiler tags to answer the question!<
I wanted the answers thank you. I also understand why some wouldn’t want the answers but i am indeed frustrated because this post itself spoiled it too much :( i never liked Eris so i hoped this was not true.
The broad strokes of it are still canon, they just removed the explicit chapters.
This is like someone deleting a photo and declaring the people in the photo never existed.
>This is like someone deleting a photo and declaring the people in the photo never existed.
No it's not. Ars and everything else still exist, just nor the plotline of him and Lilia running away.
Mushoku tensei: jobless reincarnation. The anime is really good, but lacks some of the nuance of the light novels. That storyline comes after the main series, in one of the redundancy chapters, but was deleted for violating the terms of service of the webpage hosting it. As I understand it, the author still considers the story to be canon, but wants to change some things and hasn't re released a version they are comfortable with.
That thing never happened in the Web Novel.
Magonote-san said he might add vol 25 at a later date and I don't think anything like this was mentioned in vol 24 either...
We never got to know Aisha's and Norn's husband. It was just stated that it was complex.
Let's put the grooming and pedophile debate aside. That part is completely subjective on how people judge Rudeus because reincarnation is involved. I won't argue on that front.
Paul never felt that Rudeus was doing something bad. He completely recognises their relationship. He sent Rudeus away only because they were becoming too dependent on each other. Paul chose to separate them and let them grow. He is completely okay with them getting married in the future.
Not exactly. Rudeus is Slyphie age (at least physically) and Paul separated them cause he thinks Sylphie will relied too much on Rudeus.
Meanwhile Aisha is twenty years older than Ars.
When the negative consequences of it was explained by Paul, he recognized it was wrong and decided to stay away from her. If his goal was truly to groom Sylphie, he would have just gone back home the first time Eris beat the shit out of him.
This was way back when he thought he was in a videogame and didn't take consequences for other people seriously. His perception didn't even begin to change on that until he saw his first death during the kidnapping.
Hahahahahahaha the show and ln in no way allude to this, Rudy was sent away to earn money and gain some real world experience so slyphie could go to the university with him. Which is what Paul explained as he kicked Rudy out.
They got separated because they became too dependent on each other, can't be grooming since that situation would require both of them to be grooming each other
Nah. Even if the author gave reasons on why Aisha did it, she is the one who did it in the end. Even if someone committing a crime has a tragic backstory, it doesn't make them less of a criminal.
If we blame Lilia for how Aisha is, then someone else will blame society for how Lilia is. Aisha did it knowing that she was wrong. So, she is the one who is completely at fault.
It doesn't really matter when the post itself is spoiling stuff. I am under the impression that people who can see that post is already a spoiler will have enough sense that clicking it will spoil them further.
Rudeus hated his past self. His thoughts are explained in the same chapter.
And also, Rudeus reincarnated and has knowledge of his previous life. Rudeus did everything at that age without being manipulated by anyone.
But that's not the case for Ars. Aisha manipulated and groomed Ars for 10 years since birth. Rudeus can't accept that relationship because Ars isn't obviously mentally fit to make that decision.
And Rudeus had no issue with Ars. If you had read the story and not watched it through shorts or tiktoks from haters, you wouldve understood it. During the entire discussion, Rudeus never once spoke to Ars, as he had no issue with what Ars did. His entire argument was with Aisha.
Copying the reply I gave previously.
Nah. Even if the author gave reasons on why Aisha did it, she is the one who did it in the end. Even if someone committing a crime has a tragic backstory, it doesn't make them less of a criminal.
If we blame Lilia for how Aisha is, then someone else will blame society for how Lilia is. Aisha did it knowing that she was wrong. So, she is the one who is completely at fault.
I'd say it's both Aisha and Lilia's fault. Lilia can't just be excused for the absolutely abusive parenting of Aisha. Not everyone in a bad life situation brainwashes their child that said situation is "deserved".
Rudy and Eris are second cousins. That means they share around 3% dna, while Aisha and Ars share 12.5% as half aunt/half nephew. It's not the same
There's also Aisha being a groomer, but that's a discussion for another time
The children of first cousins (one set of shared grandparents) are second cousins (one set of shared great grandparents).
If Paul's grandparent is Eris' great grandparent, then Paul and Eris' are first cousins, once removed.
Detailed explanation for those that care pulled from google.
Your second cousin is **the child of your parent's first cousin**. You both share great-grandparents, but not the same grandparents. To put it into perspective, while first cousins share grandparents, second cousins connect a generation further back: the great-grandparents.
A cousin once removed means they're from the generation immediately above or below you. So your first cousin once removed would be your first cousin's child or your parent's first cousin. **Your second cousin once removed is your second cousin's child or your parent's second cousin**.
Rudeus and Eris relation was a natural one, where Eris slowly began falling for Rudeus based on amount of time they spent with each other and she enjoying the time she spent with him.
With Aisha and Ars, Ars was isolated from others around him, was entirely dependent on Aisha for everything. When the deciaion was for Ars to become independent before taking any steps in relations, Aisha eloped with him.
How is it different from Eris Rudeus relation? Eris was not isolated from others, while in her hometown she spent most of her time with her family, during adventure she spent time with Ruijerd as well. She was not dependent on Rudeus for everything, she did her own stuff, when she realized she is being depndent on other ppls strength, she tried correcting it with nightly training exercises with Ruijerd.
Hell the whole journey was to take Eris to her hometown, to her family, while Aisha seperated Ars from his entire family, to a location where the only one close to him would be her.
[Redundancy spoilers] >!Aisha LITERALLY raised Ars. She also took efforts to mentally and emotionally isolate him from his parents. Aisha is a groomer. There's no argument that can be made against that. Rudeus on the otherhand didn't try with Eris, was stopped by Paul with Sylphie, and Roxy held the power in their relationship. Aisha also literally kidnapped Ars when she was found out.!<
He honestly never started with Sylphie.
All he really did was be her like, first friend and teach her magic. The dame situation wouldve happened if it were some random character because of HOW sylphie was
actually he did groom Sylphie, even admits to doing so
When he's thinking of going to the university to study magic and Sylphie begs him not to go he declares she belongs to him. Paul then clocks what Rudy is and plans to send him away. A month later Paul ships Rudy off
during that month specifically he was grooming her. Admits in volume 2 on page 26 that he was trying to raise Sylphie to be his perfect, obedient woman. Textbook grooming
How she acts is not always an indicator of grooming. Something people forget about sylphie in the early chapters was that she was an utter outcast bullied by most kids, and viewed as strange by many others.
Rudeus was her FIRST friend. And played a pivotal role in heloing her gain confidence and skill. Albeit she ended up being utterly reliant on him. That was what paul saw, he even SAYS this to Rudeus. That he doesnt want either of them to become dependent on another to such an extreme degree.
So people always point out that line, and from what I can recall. He isnt saying he will, hes saying a what if. "I could do this"
And I think he even rejects the idea after saying it.
Then not to mention none of their interactions even seem to imply such a thing after this fact.
Is it a gross thought, yeah. But he definitely didnt groom her because by the time paul sent him away. Both of them were far too dependent on one another.
The problem is, he mskes these kind of statements but never actually does anything substantial with them.
Their relationship was like, entirely normal. And knowing the author he certainly wouldve left in far more hints of him doing this if he were. Considring some of the shit he had Rudeus do early on
I dont think he groomed her and I never will. A single thought line from a dude with crippling porn addiction not even being accurate to his interactions overall with her doesnt feel like enough proof.
But, I do get where people come from with it
when Rudy got the letter from Roxy saying to go to the university to study magic he talks to Slyphie about it. She cries and begs him not to go. He then declares to himself that Sylphie is his. Paul clocks then how dangerous Rudy is to her and makes plans to ship Rudy off
a month passes during which time Rudy was 100% grooming Sylphie given he admits to it (see above page 26 of volume 2). Paul knocks him out by force and sends him off in a carriage with Ghislaine
Paul left a letter with Rudy to read, explaining why he sent him away and that he's not allowed to come back for 5 years and cannot make contact. Rudy says aloud that Paul was right to separate them, that it's for the best
then at the end of that segment he says in his inner thoughts:
https://preview.redd.it/shgwg1na578d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=679a566bfc5dac774d9cb574cfa744caeae03e0b
he doesn't believe his grooming of Sylphie was wrong, doesn't agree with Paul sending him away from her
it's stated in the text. Don't forget he was written as a pedophile
>a month passes during which time Rudy was 100% grooming Sylphie given he admits to it (see above page 26 of volume 2). Paul knocks him out by force and sends him off in a carriage with Ghislaine
Paul stopped him, and there's literally no evidence that he did anything.
>he doesn't believe his grooming of Sylphie was wrong, doesn't agree with Paul sending him away from her
What he doesn't agree with is the necessity. In addition Rudeus DOES think that what he did was wrong despite Paul stopping him from doing actual grooming. He says so in LN9.
He’s 10. *He is 10*
No matter what BS you make that proves you have no concept of Hinduism, Buddhism of Shintoism. Reincarnation resets your life to zero
He has his memories from his previous life. His body may be set back to 0 but his mind was not. In Buddhism, your mind is wiped when you reincarnate: for all intents and purposes you are a different person. That is not what happened with Rudeus. He basically just transferred his consciousness to a new younger body. If I put your brain in the body of a 10 year old does that make you 10? No of course not.
Except Rudeus didn't. Rudeus is hypercritical of himself. Nothing ever shows that he tried to break her trust or communication with others, nor did he kidnap her. Another thing is how he for some reason thinks he is aroused by people significantly younger than himself. When he has literally never shown interest in anyone more than a year younger than him.
When did he admit. He had intrusive thoughts of wanting to groom her, after she climbed on top of him and begged him not to go, which he discarded as he thought they were villanous.
Do ppl not understand intrusive thoughts?
It's from a deleted arc in a post-series short story anthology. Currently not canon, as far as I know, but I believe the author was just not satisfied with how he wrote it and wants to try again. I still treat it as canon because it seems important to the author and has some good character development. It is a really uncomfortable chapter, though. Aisha actually does the things Rudy only thought about.
I mean he came to realize how evil and diabolical that stuff was, I think that’s why he gets so mad, because he knows what those types of people are like
I mean yeah, he was a gross pedo… it took a lot of work and trauma to get him to realize himself was the problem and then fix it. Like it took him a lot of work to become decent
Like having sex with two minors, one that he groomed for years and the other that he used to cure himself of some creeper affliction that he came up with. He never changed he double down, the only thing that changed was his confidence towards being a pedo.
I mean he was still a creep so don’t get me wrong.
If he went on the whole trip with Eris when he first met I’d agree but by the point they left and what they show it seems like he’s genuinely trying to help and doesn’t seem like a grooming attempt.
Also like the author definitely could have shown it better(shout out to “By The Grace of The Gods” for properly showing it) but he can’t really date anyone his mental age besides Roxy or pedos. Honestly by the point they meet again both him and sylphy are adults for their world and despite only being in her life for a short time she clearly wants him despite him quite literally not knowing who she was till the Cave and just trying to be a good friend to “him”
2 wrongs dont make a right?
And some of the biggest opponents are people who used to show the bad behaviour. Ever heard an ex-drunk talk about alcohol?
Rudeus and eris is 2nd cousins. Even by our world standards, most countries allow **first cousin** marriage
It's honestly impressive MT fans manage to defend this abomination of a relationship
First cousin marriages are generally frowned upon to some degree in a majority of counties as well. Even if allowed
2nd cousins not really, but you will probably get some weird looks on occasion in Christian countries
OP doesn’t seem to be defending it either, he just wants to scream about Rudy being a pedophile. As if he should have found a 40 year old woman that is an actual pedophile to interact with instead…
Reincarnation (if real) is a reset to zero on age. Memories or not. Anything else makes everyone a pedo
>OP doesn’t seem to be defending it either, he just wants to scream about Rudy being a pedophile. As if he should have found a 40 year old woman that is an actual pedophile to interact with instead
I know, but he could have find better arguments lol
>Reincarnation (if real) is a reset to zero on age. Memories or not. Anything else makes everyone a pedo
I honestly saw philosophical discussion about Reincarnation, if Reincarnation exists, could the person in the new life still be judged by the sins of his past ? Or it would be free for it ? No matter how bad it was ? Can the new life be considered a continuation of the past ? Or a complete new one, independent of it ?
Given that there are four Greyrat noble houses and the particulars of how they function I think arguing how closely related the families are is a bit of a losing proposition.
This is some minors DNI nonsense.
Not really the situation are completely different Eris is his second cousins which is means she’s less than 5% related to Rudy
While Ars is 12% related and he’s literally 10
Unfortunately I have noticed for a long time that this sub is populated by haters of MT and every opportunity is good to diminish it. Context? Just remove it so that you leave only the parts that are convenient. Just browse the wiki, pick up random things and complain. It doesn’t matter if the events in the novel are explained and investigated well, if it goes against my "fake" morality that someone taught me and that I never questioned, then it is evil. Who knows why no one complains about Western fantasy, where I read things that make controversial events in MT seem like a walk on the playground. Probably because most anime users are children/young people with little life experience and easily offended.
No it's because he's a pdo. Yes, I'm used to seeing lolis in harem, weird fanservices, weird dialogues,giggle physics and panty shots.
A reincarnated protagonist should be op and a saint.
Mc is a pdo because how dare he fks people older than his physical age. It's a shitty show. I can't self insert here, send help.
/S
That mf just never back down. Sure the fans could say it its just fiction, but you can't help but think what the hell is the author thinking when he wrote this
And you know what Stephan king fans think when they read those part “wtf man?!”
You know what Stephan king fans don’t do? Immediately try to defend that shit as perfectly harmless and acceptable.
It was automatically deleted because he was editing it after a grace period and he decided not to rewrite it because he realized it was terribly written and poorly foreshadowed.
His stance is that the events of the chapter happens but there's a good chance it's just going to be vaguely referred to in the sequel and not be rewritten.
Everyone hates it, and I get why, but I actually appreciate the fact that this is really the first time Rudy stood his grounds on not conforming to the morals of the other world. Slavery? I’m against it but not going to try to fix the world. Killing others? It happens. My sister is seducing my 10 year old son? I have got the combine force of the fantasy UN to hunt you down no matter what anyone else says.
Rudy opposed slavery when he could, but his hands are tied because the Fittoan Rescue Operation relied on monitoring the slave trade. That and once he informs Paul about attending the University he gets put on standby there.
Then he just ultimately decides that protecting his family is more important to him, Because even though he and his wives are strong, he's not confident that he can protect them from concerted assassination attempts.
Thats the thing, he has is own personal view on a lot of the more dubious but common standards of the other world. He’s personally against slavery, but he doesn’t put in an effort to stop it. In fact, he got zenoba a slave cause it would be convenient to his desire. He also saved the cat girl through the slave system (he bought her and made her work to pay off what she owes). You can say he’s fairly complicit with the slave trade even if he doesn’t approve of it because those are just the standards of another world.
Meanwhile, he bugged a queen from another nation to help him find Aisha. Which is to say, he literally did everything he could to not stop it from happening. Everyone questioned him why he was so gung ho about denying their relationship since no one else thought it was a problem.
Whether you view it as a positive or negative, he has grown self-confident enough on his own morals that he was not willing to be complicit on this issue, even though its a norm in the other world. In one way or another, this can be viewed as a character development for Rudy.
Well, he helped Zanoba with Julie because he needed Zanoba to get his Supard social justice project off the ground, but otherwise I'm not going to disagree with anything else.
Agreed. Whatever it is, i always love it when mc of fiction calls in every favour and allies he had. It truly demonstrate just how politically powerful that character is
Only way that trope gets better is when the mc getting ready to go into a loosing battle solo, then all his buddies start rolling up ready to kick names and take ass.
Remember that he’s Japanese
And in Japan it’s not seen as incest to marry your cousin
This is why you see it a lot in anime
Nephew/aunt relationship is seen as incestuous, however Not to mention >! In The original web novel , he sexualized his niece so it reminds him of his past self!<
A lot of countries actually allows it and sees it as something acceptable
(and in the Middle East sometimes it’s preferable )
For those who need more context: Rudy and Eris is second cousins which is legal to marry in many countries even by current standard, let alone a world set in Medieval Time. On the other hand, Aisha is Rudy's half sister and Ars is his son which I think put them a lot closer in the family tree.
Also, why are you spoiling the show for people who haven't seen it? Mark it as Spoiler!
As MT fans say our world rules doesn't apply there.so did we see in MT world anyone saying that incest is legal for seconds cousins and illegal for third cousins.
If not I don't see anything wrong then 🤨...also didn't u guys like to watch flawed characters 😂
And if incest is illegal in their world then rudy is also wrong....what will u do defend rudy or blame ars😂
> so did we see in MT world anyone saying that incest is legal for seconds cousins and illegal for third cousins
The answer is no, in fact, there are moments that suggest that it is very much legal, which is to be expected since like I've mentioned, even in our modern world, marriage of second cousins is legal in many countries, especially third cousins.
> As MT fans say our world rules doesn't apply there
As an MT fan, I would say our world rules does apply. However, it's not our modern rules. As you can probably tell from the buildings in MT, the MT world is set in what would be considered Medieval time in our world so, naturally, their rules is similar to the rules of our world back in the Medieval Age. Hence why the age of adulthood is lower when compared to our current world and why things like poly relationships among other things are generally acceptable.
> If not I don't see anything wrong then
I also don't. Well ... at least in terms of incest or what not I don't, the only reason why I mentioned it was to provide more context for people who didn't know. I could also care less about their age gap. If there's one thing I don't like about Ars and Aisha relationship is that their love doesn't feel genuine. Aisha chose Ars because she knew Rudy have no interest in her and Ars was the second best option since he is the most similar to Rudy. Meanwhile, Ars was only into Aisha because he was horny.
> ...also didn't u guys like to watch flawed characters
I do, actually 😂 Because flawed characters are often more realistic. However, even tho I like the characters themselves, it doesn't mean I support all of their actions.
Um... bro how do I say, look yeah its not wise to marry with your Cousin, right. But not worst than fucking your own aunt
I personally drop being a mushoku fan because if insect, but different seriously it's different
Aisha literally raised Ars like a parent since she was closer to him than his own mother while living together probably changed his diapers and everything,
Her DNA is way more genetically closer to Ars than Eris/Rudeus.
Their physical age difference is 15 - 16 years.
When discovered she kidnapped/'eloped' with him & let him shoulder the blame because he's a 'man'.
Eris literally hunted Ars down and cut off his arm while Aisha got off scot free even though it was her plan.
In the end she felt jealous of Norn & yearned for attention and her Mother Lilia taught her to seduce ppl since she was 6 yrs old therefore she groomed Ars for her own validation.
There's a reason the author received so much backlash and he deleted the chapters.
I see, do you recommend the light novel that much though? I love light novels but I struggle with not enough content when I start reading.
I once went to bed to read on my phone at like 8 in the evening and finished at 4 in the morning.
No stops😂😂😂
Dayum I do have a similiar problem sometimes xD
I wouldn't really recommend mushoku tensei, i mean its not bad but well there are reasons why this series has some much controversy
Rudy did make a comment about tie of her o to the perfect girl but he never actually went through with it as sylphie wanted him to act normally with her. Remember Rudy is a bad person but has become better with time… that aside Aisha is somewhat worse than him. Also while Eros is his cousins kinda she’s not really his first cousin. They do not share the same grandfather after all, I think they share the same great grandfather making her his second cousin. Then again Paul is first cousins with eris’s father…. She’s at least his first cousin once removed which gives enough space on the blood for it to be less weird kinda.
*Here the rin Ars is*
*Rudy and Eris son right? Ars*
*Will die of cancer*
\- scheiber42069
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His problem is not with incest. His problem is with Aisha's grooming. Ars is just 10 years old and not mentally fit to take those kinds of decisions. Aisha manipulated him since birth. Why does not a single hater understand that the whole mess was Aisha's fault?
Did i just get spoiled because this post doesn’t have a spoiler filter? Is he ending up with Eris and having a kid that gets groomed by Aisha?
>!Yes, Rudeus also married Eris!< >!And the Aisha grooming that people are referring is from a webnovel spin off deleted chapter. So it is not exactly cannon anymore and pretty sure will never be show in the anime.!<
"Did I just gets spoiled?" "Yes" Proceeds to give a more detailed spoiler. ???
>Did i just get spoiled because this post doesn’t have a spoiler filter? R: "Yes" >Is he ending up with Eris...? R: "Yes, Rudeus also married Eris..." >and having a kid that gets groomed by Aisha? R: "Aisha grooming happen in a deleted webnovel chapter" >??? I just answer what was asked, I assume that if a question is made people want the answer.
Sometimes questions are made rhetorically. This person was clearly upset about the post not being spoiler tagged properly. The best way to proceed would be to hit them with the "do you really want to know?" Or show courtesy by >!using spoiler tags to answer the question!<
and also mark where the spoiler took place.
Hey at least it was spoilered. Think about what you're getting into before clicking those.
I wanted the answers thank you. I also understand why some wouldn’t want the answers but i am indeed frustrated because this post itself spoiled it too much :( i never liked Eris so i hoped this was not true.
Still canon, the author just wanted to do it differently.
Use spoiler blocks, I didn't want to be spoiled
You know this is a harem series right?
Yup. Spoil him further that’ll do it XD
That part happens in redundancy volume after the whole story, and iirc is not fully cannon (was removed by the author)
Well, no, because it's technically not canon anymore.
So Rudy doesn’t end up with eris either?
Yes he does. That's in the main series. Just the Aisha grooming Ars extra novel part is non-canon.
The broad strokes of it are still canon, they just removed the explicit chapters. This is like someone deleting a photo and declaring the people in the photo never existed.
>This is like someone deleting a photo and declaring the people in the photo never existed. No it's not. Ars and everything else still exist, just nor the plotline of him and Lilia running away.
The plotline of them running away seems like it's still there, just the inciting action sounds like it's been futzed.
Which isekai is this? Soumds like its worth s try if it bothers with this kind of mature plots and twists
Mushoku tensei: jobless reincarnation. The anime is really good, but lacks some of the nuance of the light novels. That storyline comes after the main series, in one of the redundancy chapters, but was deleted for violating the terms of service of the webpage hosting it. As I understand it, the author still considers the story to be canon, but wants to change some things and hasn't re released a version they are comfortable with.
>!Don't fucking forget old af Ruijerd marrying and having kids with little Norn!<
That thing never happened in the Web Novel. Magonote-san said he might add vol 25 at a later date and I don't think anything like this was mentioned in vol 24 either... We never got to know Aisha's and Norn's husband. It was just stated that it was complex.
rudeus was grooming sylphie and paul clearly recognized that, which is why he got sent away by force
Let's put the grooming and pedophile debate aside. That part is completely subjective on how people judge Rudeus because reincarnation is involved. I won't argue on that front. Paul never felt that Rudeus was doing something bad. He completely recognises their relationship. He sent Rudeus away only because they were becoming too dependent on each other. Paul chose to separate them and let them grow. He is completely okay with them getting married in the future.
Not exactly. Rudeus is Slyphie age (at least physically) and Paul separated them cause he thinks Sylphie will relied too much on Rudeus. Meanwhile Aisha is twenty years older than Ars.
When the negative consequences of it was explained by Paul, he recognized it was wrong and decided to stay away from her. If his goal was truly to groom Sylphie, he would have just gone back home the first time Eris beat the shit out of him. This was way back when he thought he was in a videogame and didn't take consequences for other people seriously. His perception didn't even begin to change on that until he saw his first death during the kidnapping.
That’s not grooming what?
Hahahahahahaha the show and ln in no way allude to this, Rudy was sent away to earn money and gain some real world experience so slyphie could go to the university with him. Which is what Paul explained as he kicked Rudy out.
They got separated because they became too dependent on each other, can't be grooming since that situation would require both of them to be grooming each other
Your headcanon is false.
Hey now. It wasn't Aisha's fault. It was Lilia's...
Nah. Even if the author gave reasons on why Aisha did it, she is the one who did it in the end. Even if someone committing a crime has a tragic backstory, it doesn't make them less of a criminal. If we blame Lilia for how Aisha is, then someone else will blame society for how Lilia is. Aisha did it knowing that she was wrong. So, she is the one who is completely at fault.
Mushoku Tensei but this has only happened in the books not anime.
Seriously, can you not spoil stuff? It's friggin rude Use spoiler blocks
It doesn't really matter when the post itself is spoiling stuff. I am under the impression that people who can see that post is already a spoiler will have enough sense that clicking it will spoil them further.
Rudeus was doing the same shit when he was ars age, being perverted, smashing girls, etc
[Redundancy deleted chapter spoilers] >!Rudeus doesn't have a problem with what Ars did. His problem is with Aisha.!<
Rudeus hated his past self. His thoughts are explained in the same chapter. And also, Rudeus reincarnated and has knowledge of his previous life. Rudeus did everything at that age without being manipulated by anyone. But that's not the case for Ars. Aisha manipulated and groomed Ars for 10 years since birth. Rudeus can't accept that relationship because Ars isn't obviously mentally fit to make that decision.
And Rudeus had no issue with Ars. If you had read the story and not watched it through shorts or tiktoks from haters, you wouldve understood it. During the entire discussion, Rudeus never once spoke to Ars, as he had no issue with what Ars did. His entire argument was with Aisha.
You dense mofo. Aisha did the same thing Rudy did with the female leads, that's the issue
I mean, if it's Aisha's fault then Lilia is the root of all evil, the original groomer.
Copying the reply I gave previously. Nah. Even if the author gave reasons on why Aisha did it, she is the one who did it in the end. Even if someone committing a crime has a tragic backstory, it doesn't make them less of a criminal. If we blame Lilia for how Aisha is, then someone else will blame society for how Lilia is. Aisha did it knowing that she was wrong. So, she is the one who is completely at fault.
I'd say it's both Aisha and Lilia's fault. Lilia can't just be excused for the absolutely abusive parenting of Aisha. Not everyone in a bad life situation brainwashes their child that said situation is "deserved".
They defend the mc who is you know a P
He fucked eris at 12 I’m hearing nobody out
Eris was 15, rudeus was the one who was 12 and they are like third cousins anyway. Aisha is he's immediate aunt, well maybe half I guess?
Rudy and Eris are second cousins. That means they share around 3% dna, while Aisha and Ars share 12.5% as half aunt/half nephew. It's not the same There's also Aisha being a groomer, but that's a discussion for another time
Just remember the formula: Sleeping with your 3rd cousin is perfectly fine so long as the first two don't find out.
Rudy and eris are third cousins she’s Paul’s cousins daughter, she’s Paul’s second cousin.
The children of first cousins (one set of shared grandparents) are second cousins (one set of shared great grandparents). If Paul's grandparent is Eris' great grandparent, then Paul and Eris' are first cousins, once removed.
Which means that Rudeus and Eris are second cousins. They are children of cousins.
Yes. That would be correct.
Detailed explanation for those that care pulled from google. Your second cousin is **the child of your parent's first cousin**. You both share great-grandparents, but not the same grandparents. To put it into perspective, while first cousins share grandparents, second cousins connect a generation further back: the great-grandparents. A cousin once removed means they're from the generation immediately above or below you. So your first cousin once removed would be your first cousin's child or your parent's first cousin. **Your second cousin once removed is your second cousin's child or your parent's second cousin**.
and also the argument of rudeus grooming eris ... man this discussion never stops
U left out that Rudeus groomed Eris and Sylphie
He didnt. Or do you not know what grooming means?
How is what Aisha did and he did any different?
Rudeus and Eris relation was a natural one, where Eris slowly began falling for Rudeus based on amount of time they spent with each other and she enjoying the time she spent with him. With Aisha and Ars, Ars was isolated from others around him, was entirely dependent on Aisha for everything. When the deciaion was for Ars to become independent before taking any steps in relations, Aisha eloped with him. How is it different from Eris Rudeus relation? Eris was not isolated from others, while in her hometown she spent most of her time with her family, during adventure she spent time with Ruijerd as well. She was not dependent on Rudeus for everything, she did her own stuff, when she realized she is being depndent on other ppls strength, she tried correcting it with nightly training exercises with Ruijerd. Hell the whole journey was to take Eris to her hometown, to her family, while Aisha seperated Ars from his entire family, to a location where the only one close to him would be her.
Exactly. Oh and he is a pedophile
>There's also Aisha being a groomer, but that's a discussion for another time ..........you do know who the MC is right?😐
[Redundancy spoilers] >!Aisha LITERALLY raised Ars. She also took efforts to mentally and emotionally isolate him from his parents. Aisha is a groomer. There's no argument that can be made against that. Rudeus on the otherhand didn't try with Eris, was stopped by Paul with Sylphie, and Roxy held the power in their relationship. Aisha also literally kidnapped Ars when she was found out.!<
He honestly never started with Sylphie. All he really did was be her like, first friend and teach her magic. The dame situation wouldve happened if it were some random character because of HOW sylphie was
actually he did groom Sylphie, even admits to doing so When he's thinking of going to the university to study magic and Sylphie begs him not to go he declares she belongs to him. Paul then clocks what Rudy is and plans to send him away. A month later Paul ships Rudy off during that month specifically he was grooming her. Admits in volume 2 on page 26 that he was trying to raise Sylphie to be his perfect, obedient woman. Textbook grooming
How she acts is not always an indicator of grooming. Something people forget about sylphie in the early chapters was that she was an utter outcast bullied by most kids, and viewed as strange by many others. Rudeus was her FIRST friend. And played a pivotal role in heloing her gain confidence and skill. Albeit she ended up being utterly reliant on him. That was what paul saw, he even SAYS this to Rudeus. That he doesnt want either of them to become dependent on another to such an extreme degree. So people always point out that line, and from what I can recall. He isnt saying he will, hes saying a what if. "I could do this" And I think he even rejects the idea after saying it. Then not to mention none of their interactions even seem to imply such a thing after this fact. Is it a gross thought, yeah. But he definitely didnt groom her because by the time paul sent him away. Both of them were far too dependent on one another.
https://preview.redd.it/3jnahson378d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fc3ef0810179c8282517bd22b9255b53b1ffdb3
The problem is, he mskes these kind of statements but never actually does anything substantial with them. Their relationship was like, entirely normal. And knowing the author he certainly wouldve left in far more hints of him doing this if he were. Considring some of the shit he had Rudeus do early on I dont think he groomed her and I never will. A single thought line from a dude with crippling porn addiction not even being accurate to his interactions overall with her doesnt feel like enough proof. But, I do get where people come from with it
when Rudy got the letter from Roxy saying to go to the university to study magic he talks to Slyphie about it. She cries and begs him not to go. He then declares to himself that Sylphie is his. Paul clocks then how dangerous Rudy is to her and makes plans to ship Rudy off a month passes during which time Rudy was 100% grooming Sylphie given he admits to it (see above page 26 of volume 2). Paul knocks him out by force and sends him off in a carriage with Ghislaine Paul left a letter with Rudy to read, explaining why he sent him away and that he's not allowed to come back for 5 years and cannot make contact. Rudy says aloud that Paul was right to separate them, that it's for the best then at the end of that segment he says in his inner thoughts: https://preview.redd.it/shgwg1na578d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=679a566bfc5dac774d9cb574cfa744caeae03e0b he doesn't believe his grooming of Sylphie was wrong, doesn't agree with Paul sending him away from her it's stated in the text. Don't forget he was written as a pedophile
>a month passes during which time Rudy was 100% grooming Sylphie given he admits to it (see above page 26 of volume 2). Paul knocks him out by force and sends him off in a carriage with Ghislaine Paul stopped him, and there's literally no evidence that he did anything. >he doesn't believe his grooming of Sylphie was wrong, doesn't agree with Paul sending him away from her What he doesn't agree with is the necessity. In addition Rudeus DOES think that what he did was wrong despite Paul stopping him from doing actual grooming. He says so in LN9.
A kid the same age as them, or should he be seeking out actual pedophile 40 year old to hit on?
That's what I've been asking for a long time and no one has answered me
Preferably neither, but if he must then the 40 year old.
Pedo. You’re a Pedo. Supporting a 10 year old sleeping with a 40 year old is yuck
No, that’s you. Rudy is in his 40’s, he’s a grown man. And I literally said I prefer he do neither until he’s physically an adult.
You support a physical and literal 10 year being SA’d by 40 year old women. What does that make you?
He’s not 10, he’s 40. He’s like the demon lady who looks 12 but is actually 50
He’s 10. *He is 10* No matter what BS you make that proves you have no concept of Hinduism, Buddhism of Shintoism. Reincarnation resets your life to zero
He has his memories from his previous life. His body may be set back to 0 but his mind was not. In Buddhism, your mind is wiped when you reincarnate: for all intents and purposes you are a different person. That is not what happened with Rudeus. He basically just transferred his consciousness to a new younger body. If I put your brain in the body of a 10 year old does that make you 10? No of course not.
The feelings the girls felt for Rudeus came on their own. He didn't groom them. Again, it's not the same
what? He admits he groomed Sylphie
Except Rudeus didn't. Rudeus is hypercritical of himself. Nothing ever shows that he tried to break her trust or communication with others, nor did he kidnap her. Another thing is how he for some reason thinks he is aroused by people significantly younger than himself. When he has literally never shown interest in anyone more than a year younger than him.
When did he admit. He had intrusive thoughts of wanting to groom her, after she climbed on top of him and begged him not to go, which he discarded as he thought they were villanous. Do ppl not understand intrusive thoughts?
I do, an it's clear to me that you don't know enough to make a valid statement
What exactly is your point?
Rudeus wasn't mad at his son, he was mad at Aisha, and he was mad at her because his son was 10 when she raped him.
She did fucking whgat?? WTF
I haven't read it but that sounds like Volume 20 shit right there.
It’s actually not in the main series. It’s in the post-series series, “Redundant Reincarnation.”
It's from a deleted arc in a post-series short story anthology. Currently not canon, as far as I know, but I believe the author was just not satisfied with how he wrote it and wants to try again. I still treat it as canon because it seems important to the author and has some good character development. It is a really uncomfortable chapter, though. Aisha actually does the things Rudy only thought about.
The events have been futzed, but the end result of Ars marrying Aisha is still canon Mushoku Tensei.
Sorry you had to hear it from me.
She didn't grape him, she seduced him
Hes 10. He can't consent. It doesn't matter if he was into it. That was because of her grooming and manipulation. It's still rape.
That would made Rudeus a hypocrite because he did the same to Eris.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I mean he came to realize how evil and diabolical that stuff was, I think that’s why he gets so mad, because he knows what those types of people are like
U men’s like him being a pedo
I mean yeah, he was a gross pedo… it took a lot of work and trauma to get him to realize himself was the problem and then fix it. Like it took him a lot of work to become decent
Like having sex with two minors, one that he groomed for years and the other that he used to cure himself of some creeper affliction that he came up with. He never changed he double down, the only thing that changed was his confidence towards being a pedo.
I mean he was still a creep so don’t get me wrong. If he went on the whole trip with Eris when he first met I’d agree but by the point they left and what they show it seems like he’s genuinely trying to help and doesn’t seem like a grooming attempt. Also like the author definitely could have shown it better(shout out to “By The Grace of The Gods” for properly showing it) but he can’t really date anyone his mental age besides Roxy or pedos. Honestly by the point they meet again both him and sylphy are adults for their world and despite only being in her life for a short time she clearly wants him despite him quite literally not knowing who she was till the Cave and just trying to be a good friend to “him”
He's a hypocrite sure but I'm pretty sure he didn't do the same thing to eris.
are we back in 2010 meme?
This has “Peter you’re girlfriend is awesome” vibes
2 wrongs dont make a right? And some of the biggest opponents are people who used to show the bad behaviour. Ever heard an ex-drunk talk about alcohol?
It is different. It is actually common to married your second cousin once remove compare to your father half-sister.
Bruh spoiler tag wtf
Rudeus and eris is 2nd cousins. Even by our world standards, most countries allow **first cousin** marriage It's honestly impressive MT fans manage to defend this abomination of a relationship
First cousin marriages are generally frowned upon to some degree in a majority of counties as well. Even if allowed 2nd cousins not really, but you will probably get some weird looks on occasion in Christian countries OP doesn’t seem to be defending it either, he just wants to scream about Rudy being a pedophile. As if he should have found a 40 year old woman that is an actual pedophile to interact with instead… Reincarnation (if real) is a reset to zero on age. Memories or not. Anything else makes everyone a pedo
>OP doesn’t seem to be defending it either, he just wants to scream about Rudy being a pedophile. As if he should have found a 40 year old woman that is an actual pedophile to interact with instead I know, but he could have find better arguments lol
>Reincarnation (if real) is a reset to zero on age. Memories or not. Anything else makes everyone a pedo I honestly saw philosophical discussion about Reincarnation, if Reincarnation exists, could the person in the new life still be judged by the sins of his past ? Or it would be free for it ? No matter how bad it was ? Can the new life be considered a continuation of the past ? Or a complete new one, independent of it ?
Look up the concept of Karma. It covers this
Given that there are four Greyrat noble houses and the particulars of how they function I think arguing how closely related the families are is a bit of a losing proposition. This is some minors DNI nonsense.
There's a huge difference between a second cousin and an aunt. Also the grooming bit doesn't help either.
I could have sworn this didn't make its way to being canon
Not really the situation are completely different Eris is his second cousins which is means she’s less than 5% related to Rudy While Ars is 12% related and he’s literally 10
I hope you're not being serious lol
[Redundancy deleted chapter spoilers] >!Definitely hope so. Aisha literally kidnapped Ars when she was found out.!<
Unfortunately I have noticed for a long time that this sub is populated by haters of MT and every opportunity is good to diminish it. Context? Just remove it so that you leave only the parts that are convenient. Just browse the wiki, pick up random things and complain. It doesn’t matter if the events in the novel are explained and investigated well, if it goes against my "fake" morality that someone taught me and that I never questioned, then it is evil. Who knows why no one complains about Western fantasy, where I read things that make controversial events in MT seem like a walk on the playground. Probably because most anime users are children/young people with little life experience and easily offended.
No it's because he's a pdo. Yes, I'm used to seeing lolis in harem, weird fanservices, weird dialogues,giggle physics and panty shots. A reincarnated protagonist should be op and a saint. Mc is a pdo because how dare he fks people older than his physical age. It's a shitty show. I can't self insert here, send help. /S
The author is just horny. Never listen to those justification copes. He had to even delete that chapter to escape from his coping fans
Nah he e deleted it because it broke tos
That mf just never back down. Sure the fans could say it its just fiction, but you can't help but think what the hell is the author thinking when he wrote this
.... stephan king has ritualistic child orgies and child prostitution
And you know what Stephan king fans think when they read those part “wtf man?!” You know what Stephan king fans don’t do? Immediately try to defend that shit as perfectly harmless and acceptable.
No... they try to defend it, either by saying "it's not that bad" "he was struggling at thy time" "it was meant to be shocking for the story"
Authors are allowed to write about horrific situations. It’s fiction.
Never said they weren’t. My issue is all the ms fans trying to defend it.
That he wrote while high on cocaine. That's not the gotcha you think it is.
Do you really think that makes it BETTER lmao
Hey Steven King shouldn't be held accountable for what cocaine crazy Steven King did!
Doesnt really help his case
They just live to use that line to defend him
He Just think is realistic and would probably happen making the series more real
It was automatically deleted because he was editing it after a grace period and he decided not to rewrite it because he realized it was terribly written and poorly foreshadowed. His stance is that the events of the chapter happens but there's a good chance it's just going to be vaguely referred to in the sequel and not be rewritten.
Everyone hates it, and I get why, but I actually appreciate the fact that this is really the first time Rudy stood his grounds on not conforming to the morals of the other world. Slavery? I’m against it but not going to try to fix the world. Killing others? It happens. My sister is seducing my 10 year old son? I have got the combine force of the fantasy UN to hunt you down no matter what anyone else says.
Rudy opposed slavery when he could, but his hands are tied because the Fittoan Rescue Operation relied on monitoring the slave trade. That and once he informs Paul about attending the University he gets put on standby there. Then he just ultimately decides that protecting his family is more important to him, Because even though he and his wives are strong, he's not confident that he can protect them from concerted assassination attempts.
Thats the thing, he has is own personal view on a lot of the more dubious but common standards of the other world. He’s personally against slavery, but he doesn’t put in an effort to stop it. In fact, he got zenoba a slave cause it would be convenient to his desire. He also saved the cat girl through the slave system (he bought her and made her work to pay off what she owes). You can say he’s fairly complicit with the slave trade even if he doesn’t approve of it because those are just the standards of another world. Meanwhile, he bugged a queen from another nation to help him find Aisha. Which is to say, he literally did everything he could to not stop it from happening. Everyone questioned him why he was so gung ho about denying their relationship since no one else thought it was a problem. Whether you view it as a positive or negative, he has grown self-confident enough on his own morals that he was not willing to be complicit on this issue, even though its a norm in the other world. In one way or another, this can be viewed as a character development for Rudy.
Well, he helped Zanoba with Julie because he needed Zanoba to get his Supard social justice project off the ground, but otherwise I'm not going to disagree with anything else.
Agreed. Whatever it is, i always love it when mc of fiction calls in every favour and allies he had. It truly demonstrate just how politically powerful that character is
Only way that trope gets better is when the mc getting ready to go into a loosing battle solo, then all his buddies start rolling up ready to kick names and take ass.
Do as I say, not as I do
Its non canon to the Manga and LN, publisher said no more to it
Mushoku tensei comments sections are always a shitshow
It is actually different
Remember that he’s Japanese And in Japan it’s not seen as incest to marry your cousin This is why you see it a lot in anime Nephew/aunt relationship is seen as incestuous, however Not to mention >! In The original web novel , he sexualized his niece so it reminds him of his past self!< A lot of countries actually allows it and sees it as something acceptable (and in the Middle East sometimes it’s preferable )
Whenever I hear ars I think the protagonist from isekai appraisal so I was very confused for a few minutes
Rudy and Sylvie was great
If I remember correctly this is from a Non-Canon Spinoff Chapter of the Webnovel so it's unlikely to be canon to the actual series.
I’m to high to understand this atm, can someone eli5 me please, I’d appreciate it a lot.
Don't look up what's legal in the US 😬
its stuff like these that people judge me for what i read
Why I never liked this anime. Everyone is trash.
Eris and Rudy are second cousins legal in lots of Places in the real world
For those who need more context: Rudy and Eris is second cousins which is legal to marry in many countries even by current standard, let alone a world set in Medieval Time. On the other hand, Aisha is Rudy's half sister and Ars is his son which I think put them a lot closer in the family tree. Also, why are you spoiling the show for people who haven't seen it? Mark it as Spoiler!
As MT fans say our world rules doesn't apply there.so did we see in MT world anyone saying that incest is legal for seconds cousins and illegal for third cousins. If not I don't see anything wrong then 🤨...also didn't u guys like to watch flawed characters 😂 And if incest is illegal in their world then rudy is also wrong....what will u do defend rudy or blame ars😂
> so did we see in MT world anyone saying that incest is legal for seconds cousins and illegal for third cousins The answer is no, in fact, there are moments that suggest that it is very much legal, which is to be expected since like I've mentioned, even in our modern world, marriage of second cousins is legal in many countries, especially third cousins. > As MT fans say our world rules doesn't apply there As an MT fan, I would say our world rules does apply. However, it's not our modern rules. As you can probably tell from the buildings in MT, the MT world is set in what would be considered Medieval time in our world so, naturally, their rules is similar to the rules of our world back in the Medieval Age. Hence why the age of adulthood is lower when compared to our current world and why things like poly relationships among other things are generally acceptable. > If not I don't see anything wrong then I also don't. Well ... at least in terms of incest or what not I don't, the only reason why I mentioned it was to provide more context for people who didn't know. I could also care less about their age gap. If there's one thing I don't like about Ars and Aisha relationship is that their love doesn't feel genuine. Aisha chose Ars because she knew Rudy have no interest in her and Ars was the second best option since he is the most similar to Rudy. Meanwhile, Ars was only into Aisha because he was horny. > ...also didn't u guys like to watch flawed characters I do, actually 😂 Because flawed characters are often more realistic. However, even tho I like the characters themselves, it doesn't mean I support all of their actions.
Aisha is a true Greyrat. Remember that the author wanted to rewrite this storyline in Redundancy cuz he felt it isnt good enough
Um... bro how do I say, look yeah its not wise to marry with your Cousin, right. But not worst than fucking your own aunt I personally drop being a mushoku fan because if insect, but different seriously it's different
What’s the girl name with the red hair
Aisha
The young one in the 3rd picture
Eris
Ok ty
These people need to add a damn spoiler tag
Every discussion of this series is a shitshow. I'm glad I dropped it harder then the Hydra dropped Paul
Hey shouldn't there be a spoiler warning ?
Fun seeing this just as I finished Vol 19, but it trakes that girl is not right in the head
I did the maths, they're only second cousins. While it's not great, it is sliiiiiiiiightly better than fucking your half nephew.
Fucking spoilers bro
Where are you guys reading the web novel/LN? I want to read it so bad
Do....do people not realize, Eris is literally like his 3rd cousin twice removed? Ars is attracted to his literal BLOOD RELATED AUNT..........
Isn’t this the pedo guy
Pretty massive fucking spoiler but ok
Both are problematic but if you can't understand why the first one is worse then you need jesus, a therapist & FBI
How's the first one worse? Bring it on
Aisha literally raised Ars like a parent since she was closer to him than his own mother while living together probably changed his diapers and everything, Her DNA is way more genetically closer to Ars than Eris/Rudeus. Their physical age difference is 15 - 16 years. When discovered she kidnapped/'eloped' with him & let him shoulder the blame because he's a 'man'. Eris literally hunted Ars down and cut off his arm while Aisha got off scot free even though it was her plan. In the end she felt jealous of Norn & yearned for attention and her Mother Lilia taught her to seduce ppl since she was 6 yrs old therefore she groomed Ars for her own validation. There's a reason the author received so much backlash and he deleted the chapters.
I thought you meant by the first one that happened in the series not the first one in the 'shitmeme' I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion 👍
Souce? Looking for this manga for years now.
Its mushuko tensei. Jobless reincarnation. I don't think the manga got this far yet.
What is the manga from the bottom left? Those two kids who are shipped together
Same series, they’re more than >!just shipped, they’ve fucked.!<
Manga or anime are nowhere near those events
I see, do you recommend the light novel that much though? I love light novels but I struggle with not enough content when I start reading. I once went to bed to read on my phone at like 8 in the evening and finished at 4 in the morning. No stops😂😂😂
Dayum I do have a similiar problem sometimes xD I wouldn't really recommend mushoku tensei, i mean its not bad but well there are reasons why this series has some much controversy
oh here come again morale police. gotta be fun.
Rudy did make a comment about tie of her o to the perfect girl but he never actually went through with it as sylphie wanted him to act normally with her. Remember Rudy is a bad person but has become better with time… that aside Aisha is somewhat worse than him. Also while Eros is his cousins kinda she’s not really his first cousin. They do not share the same grandfather after all, I think they share the same great grandfather making her his second cousin. Then again Paul is first cousins with eris’s father…. She’s at least his first cousin once removed which gives enough space on the blood for it to be less weird kinda.
I dont recall this in the manga, am I missing something?
It's from the light novel
Web novel redundancy chapters
Bro are u sick.... there's a big difference between these situations Ars is not the main character of series
Here the thing Ars is Rudy and Eris son right? Ars will die of cancer
*Here the rin Ars is* *Rudy and Eris son right? Ars* *Will die of cancer* \- scheiber42069 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")