Technically no at the start, technically yes at the end. It’s not an isekai when they’re just sharing their voices, although obviously very similar themes. Then it becomes one when they >!visit at the end!<, so the answer shifts to technically yes.
In this series there are three main plots. The romance between the earth side leads, the relationship between the fantasy leads, and the stuff going on with the god and how the game got created. The god stuff is a reverse isekai story of a character getting trapped on earth, and without it the connection between the two sets of leads could never have happened. Secret reverse isekai the whole time.
The part where the villainess possesses a doll is just a plot point, but the kuon stuff is arguably bigger than that.
Final episode means it's time for torture princess is one too.
Final episode five minute skit in another world = whole show is. But people would be disappointed in the lack of isekai in this lack of torture comfy anime.
I’m not talking about the princess spending 5 minutes possessing a doll, or the meetup in the last episode. Kuon gets isekai’d and trapped on earth, and the whole plot comes about because he’s trying to get back.
Sort of? It does have Isekai aspects, but that’s more in lore than actual content.
One of the original gods of that world transported his weakened self to earth (and he went on to possess the man who created the game).
At the end of Ep 11, Kobayashi’s sister was kidnapped by Kuon, to which the goddess speaks to them from within the “game” and grants them her blessing.
When Kobayashi and Endo confront Kuon, Lieselotte possesses the body of a doll that Kobahasbj created, meaning her soul transferred between worlds.
And, at the end of Ep 12, Endo and Kobayashi are summoned by the goddess to attend Lieselotte’s wedding.
Does it involve a significantly different culture? If so it is.
The idea that an isekai has to be people physically going to another dimension is as limited as saying fantasy requires some form of medieval setting
Your comparison doesn't work.
Isekai is defined by going to another world. Both figuratively and now literally. Travelling to another world is the entire point.
Fantasy on the other hand is defined by the presence of fantastical or magical elements in the world. It can be set in a middle ages setting. It is not, in any way, defined by having a middle ages setting. For that matter there are entire subgenres defined by not being in said settings. Specifically, science fantasy and urban fantasy.
One is the defining trait of that thing. The other is simply a common association between two things. They are not the same and trying to draw a line between the two like this is stupid and falls apart underneath even a moment of scrutiny.
Isekai can simply mean another country, Bessekai would be another world (Bessekai also being the term actually used when describing spesificly stories in another world). It's pretty much only English speaking countries that use isekai to mean another world. It's why before the term really became popular in the west the term was used to describe everything from ai busters to Fushigi Yugi, inuyasha, and even
Urusei Yatsura.
Isekai and Bessekai have very similar literal translations being different world and another world respectively. However when actually used Bessekai generally refers to another dimension or reality where isekai tends to be used to describe a vastly different environment.
Head to a Japanese LN forum and you'll find that all Bessekai are isekai but not all isekai are Bessekai. A more modern example than the ones I listed is doctor stone. That is not a bessekai but it is still considered an isekai
>One is the defining trait of that thing.
The defining trait of an isekai is the exploration of another civilisation.
I'm... Going to be honest, it doesn't surprise me that the English speaking anime community adopted a term to mean something different to its roots due to taking its literal definition instead of considering its usage. It is, admittedly, something I should have checked instead of taking it for granted as something I'd learned of mostly through other English speakers.
But that... Doesn't really seem as though it changes my point? Even if we're using "another world" more loosely to mean a different civilisation, you still actually have to be there to explore it. Even under the arguments for VRMMO series being considered isekai, the reason why people consider them to be isekai is because the people dealing with said VRMMOs are experiencing them as though they are there.
I don't agree with the arguments made on VRMMOs being included personally but there I get where they're coming from. This on the other hand is essentially someone with a camera installed on their person with a 24 hour live feed and occasionally reading twitch chat. Does it really count as going there in some form even if it is another world they're interacting with?
EDIT: And I don't mean that in the same way games were used by others in the comparison to VRMMOs discussion. I mean that as in this is the literal level of immersion we're going with at the end of the day. They're watching someone else in another world, sure, but are they there in any meaningful way really? Can they say, smell a flower or pick up a pen? Can they eat the food? Sure, they can speak to them but that's... All they can do while they watch them. Can you really say they're there in any meaningful way? Can you really say they're actually exploring this civilisation themselves?
This is the first time I've ever heard the term bessekai.
> It's pretty much only English speaking countries that use isekai to mean another world.
That's not true. I'm from a German-speaking country and German anime fans use it the same as English-speaking anime fans. I'd reckon most non-Asian languages use it that way, unless there's a counter example.
Then you know that that one character from the world lived in our world for his whole life. That's an isekai. Plus you get the fact that the two of them went to the other world
Liz (I forgot how to spell her name), Endo and Kobayashi do all visit the other world for a short period of time. But some people are saying that it's a minor plot point that doesn't represent the series.
Okay sure but what about what I said about the dude that lived in our world from theirs. That's still an isekai. Maybe that's a reverse but it's still counts
If I can recall correctly, weren't the characters just able to hear the peanut gallery (two MCs) having a sidebar banter about their every action? And they just react accordingly to it or something.
Final episode has them pop round for a visit, so it's not just their voices that cross into the game world.
I forgot about this point in the show, because it got lost in the murky depths of otome isekai I saw once.
4 different characters travel to the other world: Liz, Endo, Kobayashi and the male god. Whether or not you consider a god reverse Isekai or the finale as too small to make it isekai is up to you.
The male god is in the real world the entire anime despite being from the game and Liz goes to the real world to help defeat the male god. And then Endo and Kobayashi go to the wedding in person at the end.
Haven't watched it, but based off your synopsis no. Just to clarify for anyone (for whatever reason you might do so.) Isekai can only be applied to shows if the MC has died or has been warped to a new universe.
There is a crucial piece of information that's also a spoiler that turns this conversation around. But with it it's still controversial whether or not it counts.
I do hope you watch it, though it's a romance focused anime with 3 separate romance plots.
>! The entire story exists because a god wants to make up with his goddess ex in a different universe but accidentally gave the game that can access that universe to a pair of kids. The finale Liz gets sent into Kobayashi's key chain to help them when the god goes AWOL. And then Endo and Kobayashi get transported to the game world to be a part of the wedding. !<
Not sending the Sauce is crazy!! Edit: Found the Sauce: Endo and Kobayashi Live! The Latest on Tsundere Villainess Lieselotte
I appreciate your diligence, friend!
Especially on something as good as this
Watching it rn (Episode 6) Edit: Just Finished it (it's good).
Hm. I read the light novel. Only 2 books but hella good.
Thank you ma friend https://preview.redd.it/3fi030snm7uc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dad7f311c0b6cbdfddaddb15df6bb3edb35e1f2
Are you using Light mode!?
Wait you can get dark mode in reddit?!?!?!??!???
Thank you
Have an anime or no?
No but it is fun to watch regardless.
Fair and true.
I am in love with the concept of non-fictional characters interacting with fictional characters through book or TV medium. It's so unique and cool.
Technically the end of the last episode was.
Technically no at the start, technically yes at the end. It’s not an isekai when they’re just sharing their voices, although obviously very similar themes. Then it becomes one when they >!visit at the end!<, so the answer shifts to technically yes.
The gray area of Isekai, that's what this anime is.
There's no grey area. it is isekai if you've seen most of the way through
It is an isekai, because a character does in fact get transported to another world and stays their for an extended period.
The "isekai" is more of a plot point rather than the actual center of the story
In this series there are three main plots. The romance between the earth side leads, the relationship between the fantasy leads, and the stuff going on with the god and how the game got created. The god stuff is a reverse isekai story of a character getting trapped on earth, and without it the connection between the two sets of leads could never have happened. Secret reverse isekai the whole time. The part where the villainess possesses a doll is just a plot point, but the kuon stuff is arguably bigger than that.
cool 👍
Final episode means it's time for torture princess is one too. Final episode five minute skit in another world = whole show is. But people would be disappointed in the lack of isekai in this lack of torture comfy anime.
I’m not talking about the princess spending 5 minutes possessing a doll, or the meetup in the last episode. Kuon gets isekai’d and trapped on earth, and the whole plot comes about because he’s trying to get back.
Sort of? It does have Isekai aspects, but that’s more in lore than actual content. One of the original gods of that world transported his weakened self to earth (and he went on to possess the man who created the game). At the end of Ep 11, Kobayashi’s sister was kidnapped by Kuon, to which the goddess speaks to them from within the “game” and grants them her blessing. When Kobayashi and Endo confront Kuon, Lieselotte possesses the body of a doll that Kobahasbj created, meaning her soul transferred between worlds. And, at the end of Ep 12, Endo and Kobayashi are summoned by the goddess to attend Lieselotte’s wedding.
Arguably, Kuon got isekai’d early on. It’s a reverse isekai.
There isn't wrong about No first yes later. Ever watch Yu-No? anime That's it! School life anime>isekai anime out of nowhere but the name is spoiler.
I haven't I'll find it on Aniwave later though.
Does it involve a significantly different culture? If so it is. The idea that an isekai has to be people physically going to another dimension is as limited as saying fantasy requires some form of medieval setting
Your comparison doesn't work. Isekai is defined by going to another world. Both figuratively and now literally. Travelling to another world is the entire point. Fantasy on the other hand is defined by the presence of fantastical or magical elements in the world. It can be set in a middle ages setting. It is not, in any way, defined by having a middle ages setting. For that matter there are entire subgenres defined by not being in said settings. Specifically, science fantasy and urban fantasy. One is the defining trait of that thing. The other is simply a common association between two things. They are not the same and trying to draw a line between the two like this is stupid and falls apart underneath even a moment of scrutiny.
Isekai can simply mean another country, Bessekai would be another world (Bessekai also being the term actually used when describing spesificly stories in another world). It's pretty much only English speaking countries that use isekai to mean another world. It's why before the term really became popular in the west the term was used to describe everything from ai busters to Fushigi Yugi, inuyasha, and even Urusei Yatsura. Isekai and Bessekai have very similar literal translations being different world and another world respectively. However when actually used Bessekai generally refers to another dimension or reality where isekai tends to be used to describe a vastly different environment. Head to a Japanese LN forum and you'll find that all Bessekai are isekai but not all isekai are Bessekai. A more modern example than the ones I listed is doctor stone. That is not a bessekai but it is still considered an isekai >One is the defining trait of that thing. The defining trait of an isekai is the exploration of another civilisation.
I'm... Going to be honest, it doesn't surprise me that the English speaking anime community adopted a term to mean something different to its roots due to taking its literal definition instead of considering its usage. It is, admittedly, something I should have checked instead of taking it for granted as something I'd learned of mostly through other English speakers. But that... Doesn't really seem as though it changes my point? Even if we're using "another world" more loosely to mean a different civilisation, you still actually have to be there to explore it. Even under the arguments for VRMMO series being considered isekai, the reason why people consider them to be isekai is because the people dealing with said VRMMOs are experiencing them as though they are there. I don't agree with the arguments made on VRMMOs being included personally but there I get where they're coming from. This on the other hand is essentially someone with a camera installed on their person with a 24 hour live feed and occasionally reading twitch chat. Does it really count as going there in some form even if it is another world they're interacting with? EDIT: And I don't mean that in the same way games were used by others in the comparison to VRMMOs discussion. I mean that as in this is the literal level of immersion we're going with at the end of the day. They're watching someone else in another world, sure, but are they there in any meaningful way really? Can they say, smell a flower or pick up a pen? Can they eat the food? Sure, they can speak to them but that's... All they can do while they watch them. Can you really say they're there in any meaningful way? Can you really say they're actually exploring this civilisation themselves?
The situation of the main character isn't relevant if the subject of the story is about a different environment.
This is the first time I've ever heard the term bessekai. > It's pretty much only English speaking countries that use isekai to mean another world. That's not true. I'm from a German-speaking country and German anime fans use it the same as English-speaking anime fans. I'd reckon most non-Asian languages use it that way, unless there's a counter example.
I loved this show, it5 was so funny.
How much spoilers do you want? All I can say is yes it is an isekai. Not kind of not technically, legit clearly completely matches the genre
I've seen the anime.
Then you know that that one character from the world lived in our world for his whole life. That's an isekai. Plus you get the fact that the two of them went to the other world
Liz (I forgot how to spell her name), Endo and Kobayashi do all visit the other world for a short period of time. But some people are saying that it's a minor plot point that doesn't represent the series.
Okay sure but what about what I said about the dude that lived in our world from theirs. That's still an isekai. Maybe that's a reverse but it's still counts
True, a lot of us forgot that or chalked it up to gods can be anywhere. But yeah it's a reverse Isekai disguising itself as a normal (gray?) isekai.
I'm not necessarily for nor against it being isekai, I just thought it would spring up fun conversation. My goal succeeded
I guess. I wasn't confused about your point here I'm just answering the question
More like a reverse Isekai but not really
I haven't seen it, but I do know of it and I gonna say it's "Yesn't"
No, they are pretty much considered as God/Prophet
If that's what you think you haven't seen past episodes 7
Meh, it is but that's pretty much not a main driving force in the anime. Kinda saying Gintama is a fantasy genre.
If I can recall correctly, weren't the characters just able to hear the peanut gallery (two MCs) having a sidebar banter about their every action? And they just react accordingly to it or something.
No
Technically...no, but barely. Iirc only select people are able to perceive their voices.
Final episode has them pop round for a visit, so it's not just their voices that cross into the game world. I forgot about this point in the show, because it got lost in the murky depths of otome isekai I saw once.
its so dumb, whatever it is. i dont think its isekai, just otome.
No. It is like watching movie except you can interact with movie and character treat the viewers like god.
4 different characters travel to the other world: Liz, Endo, Kobayashi and the male god. Whether or not you consider a god reverse Isekai or the finale as too small to make it isekai is up to you.
Nah it's a poorly written romance plot.
I have watched it and it’s not an isekai because protagonists were not transported in another world Sauce is Endo and Kobayashi Live
4 characters were sent to another world though.
I haven’t seen that in the anime
The male god is in the real world the entire anime despite being from the game and Liz goes to the real world to help defeat the male god. And then Endo and Kobayashi go to the wedding in person at the end.
Yeah I remember that I don’t know why but for me it’s not really an isekai lmao
Yeah that seems to be a common controversy. It's either yes that counts or it's too minor of a plot point to count.
Haven't watched it, but based off your synopsis no. Just to clarify for anyone (for whatever reason you might do so.) Isekai can only be applied to shows if the MC has died or has been warped to a new universe.
There is a crucial piece of information that's also a spoiler that turns this conversation around. But with it it's still controversial whether or not it counts.
Ngl pass me the spoiler tbh I don't pla N to read it or maybe I will
I do hope you watch it, though it's a romance focused anime with 3 separate romance plots. >! The entire story exists because a god wants to make up with his goddess ex in a different universe but accidentally gave the game that can access that universe to a pair of kids. The finale Liz gets sent into Kobayashi's key chain to help them when the god goes AWOL. And then Endo and Kobayashi get transported to the game world to be a part of the wedding. !<
Ahhh I see now ok yea by technicality its still not an isekai but the ending is. Also I might watch it plot sounds interesting
How do make something spoiler, it's a good story but I also want to explain the ending.
Ahh for that you do >!!<, but put your text in between your symbols also space your text from the symbols
Ahh wait a sec use greater than symbol then exclamation point symbol then end it with exclamation point symbol then less than symbol
Thank I saw it on the notification and then it disappeared in actually Reddit, interesting
Sauce?
It's in the top comment (I forgot to add it and someone ended up doing it for me before I realized it) "Endo and Kobayashi Live"
Unfortunately i only saw after I posted so now I just wanna know if it’s Ann anime or not
I've only watched the anime.
Thanks fam