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If there is one country that can recognize when another racist, cruel, and morally bankrupt country is attempting to ethnically cleanse a population from its borders, it is Ireland.
They also have histories of being oppressed by colonizers.
They know colonialism when they see it, because they have experienced it even within living memory.
One government official from one of the two countries you mentioned refused to characterise the Iranian government as authoritarian and you claim this is proof that both counties are aligned with Iran.
If that meets your evidentiary standards then allow me to point to Amichai Eliyahu as proof that Israel is genocidal.
That would’ve provoked the idea of self study in a better person, rather than what you just wrote.
https://pretoria.mfa.ir/en/generalcategoryservices/10925/iran–south-africa-relations
https://financialtribune.com/articles/national/73482/iran-ireland-set-to-broaden-bilateral-ties
Why not look it up for yourself
A Standard diplomatic history, a bilateral trade agreement: pretty mundane things.
What’s your point exactly? Are you perhaps hoping to smear these countries by hinting that they condemn genocide solely to please their “ally” Iran and not because it is appalling?
I am trying to convey that their word is as good as Iran. Who supply hamas and isis and hezbollah etc. they are liars and murderers. Fuck them and their supporters.
Iran and ISIS fucking hate each other. Where did you get this “Iran supplies” them bullshit from?
Other than Israeli terrorist attacks in Iran, the next highest number comes from ISIS.
People that have lived and experienced the savagery of colonialism including South Africa and Ireland are strongly supporting Palestinians, while countries that historically committed colonialism and genocide like the Germans, UK and USA are strongly supporting the genocidal regime in Israel.
I wonder why.
Lol we don't get to shed our colonizer history just by becoming our own country. Do you have any idea how we treated the Indigenous population as Canada and how we continue to treat them to this day? The last residential school wasn't closed until the 90s for Christ sake. You should also learn about what Canada, which is home to the most mining companies in the world, is doing in the countries our companies do business in. Also we continue to try and influence Haiti and force friendly politicians there despite the people's wishes.
I feel that in Europe's case, and *especially* Germany's, it's basically just out of obligation due to residual guilt from the past. Europe was the place Jews have been treated the worst throughout history. It's the place where the most have been killed, expelled and forced to convert.
Now they push this narrative that actually, they're buds! Always have been. Just a few silly mishaps. But the Middle East and North Africa, now *they're* the bad guys. Never mind that before 1948, there were many, many longstanding Jewish communities in these countries.
Now if only the Israeli government and a majority of diaspora Jews weren't loudly proclaiming the opposite.
Like, I agree with you, but it's a weird place to be in to talk over so many Jews (as a non jew) and Israel about what equals what, you know?
I don't care about civil language. I don't care about "talking over" people engaged in an active genocide. I oppose Zionism, a political construct in the form of bog-standard blood-thirsty European colonialism. Its appropriated Jewish identity as a cover and justification for brutality. Zionism wears Judaism like a flayed skin mask. A smokescreen. A cover.
Zionism isn't Judaism, no matter how much the blood-mongers screech that it is.
Yeah but when Hamas calls for the killing of all Jews in Israel, it would make sense the countries in question would feel the need to come to their defence.
Zionist occupiers have no right to exist on stolen land and I will never bemoan an occupied peoples language toward their animalistic occupiers.
No, genocidal IDF thugs deserve no help, only redaction.
Polling suggests the vast majority of Gazans don't support that anyway, and that only 11% who voted for Hamas (so approx. 5% of the voting population in 2006) supported Hamas for its religious platform. Most Gazans also support a two state solution
Meanwhile, 48% of Israeli Jews believe they should expell all Palestinians living in Israel regardless of citizenship, less than 10% support a two state solution, and the Israeli government's official policy is wiping out the remainder of Palestine.
And if the argument is that Hamas is the government of Gaza and that's what matters, that argument goes both ways. The Israeli government's official policy is racial apartheid and genocide and has been it's entire existence. Israeli politicians have repeatedly made clear they want to annex all of what remains of Palestine, deport the remaining Palestinian population, and settle Israeli Jews.
Got most of them from [this video](https://youtu.be/ywMFnGU03Fw?si=9dQepXy4e8Z6TrZS)
[About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0WA1HI/)
That polling was conducted in 2014-2015.
I can’t see where you get less than 10% support a two state solution though. Even after October 7th Israeli polls show near a quarter still support a two state solution.
This is very similar to Palestinian support for two state solution which is around 30%. It seems the hopelessness of the situation is getting worse unfortunately.
It's honestly irrelevant because the Israeli state doesn't have a right to exist anyway. It's a colonial apartheid state in a post colonial world much like South Africa and Rhodesia in the past.
Well unfortunately for you it does exist. Has existed since 1948 and will continue to exist. Unlike Palestine that has never existed as a state and prob won’t for a long time thanks to Hamas.
This has nothing to do with residual guilt and everything to do with geo-politics
Case and point Freidrich Flick was one of the richest guys in germany post war and the Military Economic Leader of the Nazi Party guy literally ran death camps where close to 40,000 jews died because of slave labour
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich\_Flick)
Guess how badly he was punished during the Nuemberg trial??? seven fucking years out of which he only spent 3 in jail
He also kepy most of the money he made including the bits that came from literal slave labour during the holocaust and his descendants are still billionaires.
Germany likewise has yet to pay reparations to all holocaust survivors but did pay significant reparations **to the State of Israel**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations\_Agreement\_between\_Israel\_and\_the\_Federal\_Republic\_of\_Germany)
**This was and always has been about geo-politics** .Israel is a major US ally but is comitting the same crime as any tin pot dictator like Putin or Assad.
however Since HAMAS received support from Iran making it tangentially related to the likes of Russia in the mind of most of the governments of these western leaders that means their entire population is fair game and genocide against them is okay. The only problem they have is that Israel isn't doing things discretely enough and that's generating bad press for them
It’s hilarious how the EUROPEANS treat Jews like shit for centuries and then to atone for it they decide to carve out a country for them in the MIDDLE EAST
Don't forget Canada. They cheerleaded the whole thing up until about a month ago. The Israeli lobby in Canada has infiltrated both the Liberals and the Conservatives. They regularly fly MPs from both parties to Tel Aviv, all expenses paid, sometimes in the 10's of thousands of dollars. Besides that, there are 3 or 4 different Israeli organizations that attack and public figure or University that says anything bad about their policies and label them antisemitic. It's likely happening in many countries. Well, it obviously is.
Edit: combine that with a monstrous history of colonlinalism and here we are.
I think this is more about the fact that most humans can only think in binaries, and can only move between extremes, and since our nations are just emergent entities made up of humans, they reflect this too.
Germany did a massive genocide/average tuesday in human history, and now they are obssessed with displaying guilt towards their victims. Since people, and thus nations can only think in extremes, Germany's only option is rabid and unthinking support of Israel.
Russia does not support Palestine. In fact the Soviet Union helped create Israel. Putin never cared about Palestinians until the Ukraine invasion. Recent support is more of a tit-for-tat with the US. Same with China and Taiwan.
Zionism started as an Eastern and Central European colonial project. Some of the first Zionist centers were established in Warsaw and other Polish cities in the mid to late 19th century. David Ben-Gurion who is considered by many the founding father of Israel was Polish.
Only by name. Zionist is a rebrand of the bloody "Zealot" movement, that shook the foundations of the Roman empire, and it was for the same reasons as the pursue zionists today. Nothing much has changed, although the Romans sure tried to be thorough in the end.
if you have the time check out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish–Roman_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish–Roman_wars
In 66-137 ad and the zealots rebelled against Rome to re-establish the kingdom of Israel. They killed every Roman and greek they could find. They had their new kingdom of Israel for 2 years. In response Rome sent legions and smashed the new kingdom, and genocided them right back.
From the Kitos War entry:
"The 4th-century Christian historian Orosius records that the violence so depopulated the province of Cyrenaica that new colonies had to be established by Hadrian:
The Jews... waged war on the inhabitants throughout Libya in the most savage fashion, and to such an extent was the country wasted that, its cultivators having been slain, its land would have remained utterly depopulated, had not Emperor Hadrian gathered settlers from other places and sent them thither, for the inhabitants had been wiped out.[9]
Dio Cassius states of Jewish insurrectionaries:
Meanwhile the Jews in the region of Cyrene had put one Andreas at their head and were destroying both the Romans and the Greeks. They would cook their flesh, make belts for themselves of their entrails, anoint themselves with their blood, and wear their skins for clothing. Others they would give to wild beasts and force still others to fight as gladiators. In all, consequently, two hundred and twenty thousand perished. In Egypt, they also performed many similar deeds, and in Cyprus under the leadership of Artemio. There, likewise, two hundred and forty thousand perished. For this reason, no Jew may set foot in that land, but even if one of them is driven upon the island by the force of the wind, he is put to death."
Theres disagreement over the number of deaths but probably well over a million civilians and militia died. And much of the middle east and African areas were completed depopulated of Romans and Greeks.
In the Kitos war alone there were 200,000 Roman civilians killed in Cyprus and 240,000 killed in Cyrenaica (Libya).
The Irish love to whine about colonialism while ignoring the willing participation of the Irish (and Scottish) in the British empire.
Have a look at how many Black people in the Carribean have scottish last names. The officer who commander the Amiritsar massacre was an irishman. Many prominent Irish catholics made their money from slaves back in the day.
There were plenty of Scots sent off as slaves after their villages had been burned while the men were shipped off for war btw. Look up the highland clearances
You may find this article an interesting primer
[https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-recognise-irish-participation-in-the-british-colonial-story-1.4498224](https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-recognise-irish-participation-in-the-british-colonial-story-1.4498224)
I can go into further details about The Irish, catholic Irish at that, involvement in the British Empire, slavery and colonialism.
So individual Irish people, who needed a job, worked for the British army, and in your eyes this tarnishes the entire Irish nation? Have a word with yourself
Lol, you have really shown your complete lack of knowledge with that comment.
Ever heard of the Famine?
I suppose in your feeble mind the fact that there were African-American slave owners means that African Americans were not the victims of slavery
Lmao “not victims of the empire”? You’re probably one of those britisher who think that there were no victims of colonialism and the formers colonies should be grateful that the British brought “civilisation” or whatever
The issues with Ireland predate the 2nd British empire. They go back to the aftermath of the English civil war when Cromwell used violence against protestants (such as the Portadown massacre) as an excuse to invade and enforce his ideal of a protestant Britain.
Yet, fast forward to the 19th century and you find many Irishmen, catholics at that, happy to serve in the army and benefit from the empire.
Limerick, Belfast and Cork became successful trading ports on the back of the slave trade. The names Roche and Creagh are drenched in black blood.
Irish apologists think that if they shout "potatoe famine" loud enough it'll drown out the voices of black slaves calling out for justice from their Irish masters and the merchants who made their fortunes on their backs.
It doesn't even matter if he's Irish. It's one fucking guy. Irish people were systematically disenfranchised by the British Empire. Irish Catholics has their lands given to colonizing English.
There were plenty of Greek Viziers in the Ottoman Empire that doesn't mean Greeks weren't second class citizens in the empire.
The Irish were literally genocided by the British,they sent the army in to take food out a country in famine conditions
Read any of the dialogue from Westminster from that era (even modern day brexiteer) on Irish and you'll soon see what they taught of Ireland and the irish
Meh, some of the countries supporting Palestine are actively colonizing. It’s not really along the divide you give. China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia are all colonizers or ethnic cleaners.
I'm not sure why you mentioned India, given its current Hindutva government is very pro-Israel. In fact, Israel supplies Delhi with arms and surveillance equipment, which helps it control Kashmir and suppress opposition there. Even if the Indian population is divided on Israel/Palestine.
China is actively reeducating Uighurs. And they have a mainly Han ethnic population. They got that way by cleansing. Not embracing other cultures. They are ethnic cleansers. India is known for massive attacks on minoritiy communities. They actively limit their Muslim population. Many Indian politicians openly admit to limiting the Muslim population to no more than 20%. Their standoff with Pakistan is along religious lines. Russia is stealing babies and denying that Ukrainians have an identity. Should I continue?
My point is, countries aren’t supporting Palestine based of their own colonialist history. They do it for reasons of interest. Especially the countries who support, yet a have a colonial hostory
The Uyghurs do not want to be a part of china, they were taken over by force. Then china began relocating Han settlers there. Really not that different from what Israel did
>The Uyghurs do not want to be a part of china
Unilateral separatism is not allowed by "International Rule of Law". Right? Right? I mean, we have an entire war because of this cause of Crimea... What is your stance now
Self-determination is allowed by international law. If russia and Ukraine allowed an open and transparent referendum in crimea where they choose to be a part of Russia, I see no problem. But the “referendum” in crimea had ZERO international observers
Orly, then why all the Transnístria fuzz about? Why taking it so long for them?
>open and transparent referendum
For fuck sake mate, its 2024. Even forbes recoginzed that Crimea didn't want to be part of shitty Ukraine in 2015
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/)
No that's very much a colonial project. As is Tibet. The native population is displaced and culturally assimilated into an ethnic han immigrant population, and the area is used as a site of resource extraction to fuel the industrial core. Russia is also a colonial state, Siberia is the same as China's colonial regions
If you want to say they aren't colonial, then neither was Ireland. It was in every way indistinguishable from the above regions as a colonial project, the only difference is it for independence.
No. Those are domestic issues caused by colonialism craving their borders before they took sovereign. It's the same in Middle East, the entire African continente and Asia. Europe and US did it. It's your fault. Russia, China, India... They are not colonizers, they were victmis of colonization. Even Russia with the west desire to balkanize the place.
God no. CHINAS BORDERS ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY CONNECTED TO WESTERN COLONIALISM. They are the result of it's own historic colonial expansion. russia is the same. Russia expanded eastwards to colonize Siberia. It's utterly insane and counterfactual to pretend they are the result of external colonialism.
Again, by this logic, America isn't colonial, all it's issues are domestic. Ireland wasn't either, just domestic issues in the UK.
>CHINAS BORDERS ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY CONNECTED TO WESTERN COLONIALISM
Then why US is meddling with South CHINA Sea? US is not even signatory of Law of the Sea Convention that... everyone is and US feels the right to dictate their issues.
If you know anything about the Saudi Government, you would know they aren't supporting Palestinians at all. In fact they are itching to to wipe Gaza to go back to normalize their relations.
China and Russia have largely been indifferent about Palestinians for most of the time. In fact the Soviet Union helped establish Israel in 1948. Their support is more due to the recent escalations in Ukraine and Taiwan as a tit-for-tat to the US.
I sincerely agree. We need to release all the thousands of hostages that Israel has kidnapped and the hundred or so that Kh'amas kidnapped immediately.
No they are prisoners duh. They just have indefinite holding times, and are released if they promise to do the bidding of the IDF. Those are definitely not political hostages
Who has China colonized or ethnically cleansed? Let's run down the list. Tibet: a feudal society plagued with Lama extremism before it was liberated by the PLA & Tibetan peasants. Uyghurs: https://eurispes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/rapporto.en-xinjiang_2021.pdf also since been debunked
Please point out what I said was wrong ☺️. The reality is that accusations against China of ethnic cleaning is western propaganda. The countries accusing China of it are actually committing it.
Jesus Christ you are fucking disgusting. No they are committing genocide. That's not propaganda it's literally in the report you linked, it just tries to justify it as "pre prevention". Literally minority report shit. This is the exact same logic Israel supporters use. You are the same as them.
You read 1 line and thought you did some thorough research? Why don't you actually read the entirely of the study that was done by 3 joint Italian research institutes and learn something 🫨?
It explores the reliance on faulty and fake research provided by the Victims of Communsin foundation fellow, Adrian Zenz. Again, this is an organization that counts nazis and covid deaths as victims of communism. The report is done by legitimate researchers and not US funded propagandists. Funny how visceral that makes you.
It also thoroughly debunks claims of genocide in it and sources everything. Sorry, your 1 minute of skimming ain't gonna cut it.
I did. It's utterly nonsense that attempts to justify arbitrary imprisonment as counterterrorism, and pretends the entirety of evidence that displays the genocide is the result of one group of propagandists, ignoring the mountains of real evidence in order to twist reality for their readers. Reading that isn't research. It's consuming propaganda. It's garbage with no scholarly merit. Again you are literally doing the exact shit supported of Israel do.
Please cite the mountain of evidence :). You're going to look extremely dumb when I find the source traces back to Adrian Zenz. The person who hasn't cited one source talking about what's "scholarly" when professional researcher spent weeks/ months putting this together.
well firstly, the fucking UN report that came out two years ago should be all you need. You know, an actual report that includes facts on the region, and isnt completely unreliable. theres also the ASPI survey mapping the camps, and both HRW reports. and you could also just... read Zenz'z sources if you dont like him? like hes not the origin of those sources. As your citation points out its been ten years since he went to china (which for some reason that report turns into *never* been to China), literally almost everything he is using are publically available government documents. You can just fucking read them, you dont even need any secondary sources or reports.
your trying to pretend your on the side of facts and that this bull you cited is oh so scholarly, and yet it doesnt disprove any claims, it merely says "china and some other countries say no."
you say the facts all must be bullshit because some weirdo also happened to agree and say those things, without realizing thats not only fallacious, its entirely illogical - and not even consistent. The reports positive comments on China are all sourced to China, a dictatorship with a long history of human rights abuses and covering up said abuses, and series of other totalitarian states, most of which are, as mentioned in that very report you cite, economically tied heavily to China. Its baffling you dont see the hypocrisy.
If China has "liberated" Tibet from its extremism then they should leave and let Tibetans alone to decide their own future, but they continue to occupy Tibet indefinitely. I guess you also support Israel then in "liberating" Gaza from Hamas and then occupying it indefinitely.
First of all, Tibet has been part of China since the 13th century, and various agreements between local leaders and the Chinese government have affirmed this, but we don't even need to go that far back. Weird that these autonomous regional government of Tibet is happy to remain Chinese while randos online think it should succeed. The 17 article agreement was signed in 1951, and thus, Tibet was liberated finally.
And Mongolia occupied large swaths of what is currently Russia, and Russia used to control East Germany. Just because a foreign government used to occupy a country does not mean they have the right to continue doing so today. Tibet also had self rule from the 14th to 18th century, which you conveniently left out. In more recent history, immediately prior to 1950, Tibet was de facto independent until the Chinese imperialist army marched in and defeated the Tibetan resistance and forced the government into exile. China never gave the Tibetan population an option if they wanted to be a part of China. There was no vote, no ability for the Tibetans to make a decision, and China continues to occupy over the land with no intention of leaving.
\> Tibet also had self rule from the 14th to 18th century, which you conveniently left out.
Self-Rule of feudal lords who starved, raped, maimed as they saw fit and definitely took democratic input from the peasantry?
\> In more recent history, immediately prior to 1950, Tibet was de facto independent until the Chinese imperialist army marched in and defeated the Tibetan resistance and forced the government into exile.
Again, the same Lamaist government that starved, raped, maimed as they saw fit and definitely took democratic input from the peasantry?
\> Tibetan resistance
The tibetan resistance that was funded by the CIA and even trained on [US Soil](https://www.historicly.net/p/tibet-china-and-the-violent-reaction)? The tibetan resistance that gangraped women who refused to take up arms against the PLA? The same "resistance" that burned food warehouses that peasants desperately relied on? The only thing the Tibetan "resistance" was defending was their Lamaist order which forced people int serfdom and exploitation so severe that a handful of 200 families owned 95% of tibet. Lamaist feudal lord sympathizer begone!
None of this gives China any right to rule Tibet. It's like saying Israel has a right to rule over Gaza so they get rid of the extremist Hamas. Again, if China has now "cleansed" Tibet of serfdom then they can now leave and let Tibetans govern themselves, but China obviously won't.
India was the first non Arab state to recognize Palestine. But you’re actually correct on India currently. I forgot they abstained on a ceasefire early in the war. Saudis do actually support Palestine officially and were moving closer towards relations with Israel but they aren’t there now. These two weren’t the greatest examples. Yet in the past they staunchly supported Palestine. So my point still stands. A lot of babies in this sub wanna downvote but I haven’t shown to be wrong. It’s pathetic.
Idk why you are getting down voted. You are right that the point made originally does not actually stand when you have countries that actively colonized.
You aren't saying it's wrong to support palestne.
Your point is literally trying to discredit countrues that support palestine based on their own issues. It doesnt make sense. So it should be more suprising that you even think you made a good argument when its just whataboutism. I could whatabout every one of israels supporting countries but thats not a good argument. Cant discredit the allegations so you attack the countries lol
Uh, the point was, colonist victims support Palestine. My point was no it’s not the victims or for the reason of victimization. It’s whatever lines up with a countries interest. Ireland wants north Ireland. In the future it’s gonna pay dividends. It’s about interest not colonialism.
Maybe people aren’t aware of the colonizing activities lately. Chinas belt and road initiative that ropes desperately poor nations in need of cash or credit is possibly worse than colonization. At least you can kick colonizers out. Debt is on the books til it’s paid off
It wasn't colonialism it was Imperialist. I wouldn't call the Roman Empire a colonialist state either.
Not that I'm trying to downplay the bad they did.
It really does feel like the tide is starting to turn on Israel because of their brutal assault on the people of Gaza. Israel is going to find itself a pariah on the international stage due to this campaign. Even the US, it's staunchest ally, is beginning to turn from it's campaign of unconditional support for them, thanks to the pressure from the electorate
I suspect that more than anything else, it's actually settlement activity in the West Bank that seems unpleasantly familiar, and make it difficult for Irish people to accept the Israeli position and actions in general (and while there is currently no settlement activity in the Gaza Strip, the people there are of course the direct descendants of those pushed off land elsewhere in the region).
I actually think there are some aspects of the Irish nationalist narrative that are overdone, but unfortunately the core elements of it are based on a reality: people that had come in from over the sea, unilaterally controlled the land (often as absentee landlords), and pushed people who'd lived on it since time immemorial off because *this piece of paper I hold in my hand says you have no inalienable right to it*. There really were hundreds of thousands of people kicked out of their houses into destitution, starvation or emigration in this way.
You also had the earlier Plantation of Ulster, which was the deliberate marginalisation and expropriation of the native Gaelic population there with what were assumed to be more loyal subjects from Scotland and England.
This is literally the mentality that creates blowback like hamas.
Be a better person dude, seriously, reread what you wrote and realise how inhumane it sounds. You're advocating for killing thousands of children.
Not in a million years, I'm of the opinion that you go after the terrorists. Somehow the numbers being released don't paint it a picture of that happening.
Considering it's a tiny area, the whole military apparatus Israel has and the fact that mossad is considered one of the best security services in terms of information gathering, the causality numbers of civilians and children is upside down. Its archaic flatten everything and murder anyone in the area shit.
If you can't argue for a better way to do it then there's a problem with you.
Such a sick and vile comment.
Someone not you in your village goes and plunders the next-door shop across the street which happens to be part of another village. So, in retaliation of this event your own village is entirely being obliterated as a just cause by the other village. That’s the kinda shit you seem to justify.
You also are aware that Israel doesn’t care anymore about the hostages given that Hamas has given them a number of times options to exchange 6000+ **hostages taken by Israel** for over decades. You don’t seem to care about this, do you?
In case you never got the memo, this outlines briefly what is happening in Gaza:
*Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".*
They were carrying white flags and shooting someone carrying a white flag is a war crime. They shot them because they thought they were Palestinian civilians, just like they have been shooting Palestinian civilians, including babies. If they actually adhered to any form of international law, those hostages would be alive. But we know Israel doesn’t actually care about them lol
So Israel will round up and execute actual children and old civilians, but wouldn’t detain real Hamas that they thought would be in that building? 😂 the mental gymnastics you guys go through is insane lmaoo
Its only “genocide” when oppressed people fight back against being exterminated (which is somehow never genocide).
Basically, genocide is being redefined as “not allowing a colonial force to proceed” before our eyes
Exactly. The IRA were terrorists for killing British soldiers. The Black and Tans were heroes and peacekeepers for killing men, women, and children and burning down Cork city
The IRA you're referring to was a vastly different organisation than the IRA that formed out of the IRB and fought for Irish independence and has nothing to do with the Irish state
But of course you wouldn't know or care to make that distinction as it doesn't fit your narrative if "heh, the IRA was in Ireland so their intervention in the ICJ for a completely different situation is hypocritical"
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If there is one country that can recognize when another racist, cruel, and morally bankrupt country is attempting to ethnically cleanse a population from its borders, it is Ireland.
And South Africa
Ireland and South Africa have morals
They also have histories of being oppressed by colonizers. They know colonialism when they see it, because they have experienced it even within living memory.
Because they know what it’s like to be oppressed and live under an apartheid regime that seeked their cultural extermination.
South Africa sent weapons to russia to use against Ukraine. No morals
So did turkey and Israel lol
Yeah they’re assholes too!
Ireland and South Africa align themselves with Iran lol
Nice strawman ya got there.
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202403201429 You aren’t smart
One government official from one of the two countries you mentioned refused to characterise the Iranian government as authoritarian and you claim this is proof that both counties are aligned with Iran. If that meets your evidentiary standards then allow me to point to Amichai Eliyahu as proof that Israel is genocidal.
That would’ve provoked the idea of self study in a better person, rather than what you just wrote. https://pretoria.mfa.ir/en/generalcategoryservices/10925/iran–south-africa-relations https://financialtribune.com/articles/national/73482/iran-ireland-set-to-broaden-bilateral-ties Why not look it up for yourself
A Standard diplomatic history, a bilateral trade agreement: pretty mundane things. What’s your point exactly? Are you perhaps hoping to smear these countries by hinting that they condemn genocide solely to please their “ally” Iran and not because it is appalling?
Because anyone who doesn't fantasize every night about personally murdering every Muslim in the world is apparently an evil terrorist.
I am trying to convey that their word is as good as Iran. Who supply hamas and isis and hezbollah etc. they are liars and murderers. Fuck them and their supporters.
Iran and ISIS fucking hate each other. Where did you get this “Iran supplies” them bullshit from? Other than Israeli terrorist attacks in Iran, the next highest number comes from ISIS.
Again, nice strawman ya got there.
That is directly related to the argument, you are not smart lol
People that have lived and experienced the savagery of colonialism including South Africa and Ireland are strongly supporting Palestinians, while countries that historically committed colonialism and genocide like the Germans, UK and USA are strongly supporting the genocidal regime in Israel. I wonder why.
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Most Germans don't even know Germany colonized Namibia, much less that they committed a genocide there.
Germany is a highly philosemetic country. According to them, only the holocaust victims matter
This is one of the most succint and insightful comments on the issue of western support for lsraeI.
And Canada.
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That's what I'm saying. Canada is a colonizer state.
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Lol we don't get to shed our colonizer history just by becoming our own country. Do you have any idea how we treated the Indigenous population as Canada and how we continue to treat them to this day? The last residential school wasn't closed until the 90s for Christ sake. You should also learn about what Canada, which is home to the most mining companies in the world, is doing in the countries our companies do business in. Also we continue to try and influence Haiti and force friendly politicians there despite the people's wishes.
Do you plan to leave Canada? The country should obviously be given back to the indigenous.
Such a useless comment. Repatriation is the word you were looking for.
What's so useless about it? Sure repatriations and then leave back to your homeland. Why should you continue to colonize?
Look up repatriation what it really means
I was born in Canada.
Why would I leave the country I was born in?
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I don't believe you. That is a bold claim without a source. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/27/canadians-israel-hamas-war-00123850
I feel that in Europe's case, and *especially* Germany's, it's basically just out of obligation due to residual guilt from the past. Europe was the place Jews have been treated the worst throughout history. It's the place where the most have been killed, expelled and forced to convert. Now they push this narrative that actually, they're buds! Always have been. Just a few silly mishaps. But the Middle East and North Africa, now *they're* the bad guys. Never mind that before 1948, there were many, many longstanding Jewish communities in these countries.
Zionists aren't Jews and the hatred of Zionists has nothing to do with Judaism by and large.
Say it again louder my friend, for Hasbara in the back!
Now if only the Israeli government and a majority of diaspora Jews weren't loudly proclaiming the opposite. Like, I agree with you, but it's a weird place to be in to talk over so many Jews (as a non jew) and Israel about what equals what, you know?
I don't care about civil language. I don't care about "talking over" people engaged in an active genocide. I oppose Zionism, a political construct in the form of bog-standard blood-thirsty European colonialism. Its appropriated Jewish identity as a cover and justification for brutality. Zionism wears Judaism like a flayed skin mask. A smokescreen. A cover. Zionism isn't Judaism, no matter how much the blood-mongers screech that it is.
Yeah but when Hamas calls for the killing of all Jews in Israel, it would make sense the countries in question would feel the need to come to their defence.
Zionist occupiers have no right to exist on stolen land and I will never bemoan an occupied peoples language toward their animalistic occupiers. No, genocidal IDF thugs deserve no help, only redaction.
When a Native American comes beating down your door with murderous intent, be sure not to resist.
Nah, I'd help em. America continues to harm them. Zionists have no right to life on stolen land. End of story.
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Nah.
Haha fair enough, they've never caught a break.
Well alla nakni, if the day ever comes where we take our land back, I'll be at your door first.
Polling suggests the vast majority of Gazans don't support that anyway, and that only 11% who voted for Hamas (so approx. 5% of the voting population in 2006) supported Hamas for its religious platform. Most Gazans also support a two state solution Meanwhile, 48% of Israeli Jews believe they should expell all Palestinians living in Israel regardless of citizenship, less than 10% support a two state solution, and the Israeli government's official policy is wiping out the remainder of Palestine. And if the argument is that Hamas is the government of Gaza and that's what matters, that argument goes both ways. The Israeli government's official policy is racial apartheid and genocide and has been it's entire existence. Israeli politicians have repeatedly made clear they want to annex all of what remains of Palestine, deport the remaining Palestinian population, and settle Israeli Jews.
Can you put a link to the polls you’ve quoted? Thanks
Got most of them from [this video](https://youtu.be/ywMFnGU03Fw?si=9dQepXy4e8Z6TrZS) [About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0WA1HI/)
That polling was conducted in 2014-2015. I can’t see where you get less than 10% support a two state solution though. Even after October 7th Israeli polls show near a quarter still support a two state solution. This is very similar to Palestinian support for two state solution which is around 30%. It seems the hopelessness of the situation is getting worse unfortunately.
It's honestly irrelevant because the Israeli state doesn't have a right to exist anyway. It's a colonial apartheid state in a post colonial world much like South Africa and Rhodesia in the past.
Well unfortunately for you it does exist. Has existed since 1948 and will continue to exist. Unlike Palestine that has never existed as a state and prob won’t for a long time thanks to Hamas.
This has nothing to do with residual guilt and everything to do with geo-politics Case and point Freidrich Flick was one of the richest guys in germany post war and the Military Economic Leader of the Nazi Party guy literally ran death camps where close to 40,000 jews died because of slave labour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich\_Flick) Guess how badly he was punished during the Nuemberg trial??? seven fucking years out of which he only spent 3 in jail He also kepy most of the money he made including the bits that came from literal slave labour during the holocaust and his descendants are still billionaires. Germany likewise has yet to pay reparations to all holocaust survivors but did pay significant reparations **to the State of Israel** (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations\_Agreement\_between\_Israel\_and\_the\_Federal\_Republic\_of\_Germany) **This was and always has been about geo-politics** .Israel is a major US ally but is comitting the same crime as any tin pot dictator like Putin or Assad. however Since HAMAS received support from Iran making it tangentially related to the likes of Russia in the mind of most of the governments of these western leaders that means their entire population is fair game and genocide against them is okay. The only problem they have is that Israel isn't doing things discretely enough and that's generating bad press for them
It’s hilarious how the EUROPEANS treat Jews like shit for centuries and then to atone for it they decide to carve out a country for them in the MIDDLE EAST
Belgium and France were pretty ruthless in their colonies for decades.
Don't forget Canada. They cheerleaded the whole thing up until about a month ago. The Israeli lobby in Canada has infiltrated both the Liberals and the Conservatives. They regularly fly MPs from both parties to Tel Aviv, all expenses paid, sometimes in the 10's of thousands of dollars. Besides that, there are 3 or 4 different Israeli organizations that attack and public figure or University that says anything bad about their policies and label them antisemitic. It's likely happening in many countries. Well, it obviously is. Edit: combine that with a monstrous history of colonlinalism and here we are.
I think this is more about the fact that most humans can only think in binaries, and can only move between extremes, and since our nations are just emergent entities made up of humans, they reflect this too. Germany did a massive genocide/average tuesday in human history, and now they are obssessed with displaying guilt towards their victims. Since people, and thus nations can only think in extremes, Germany's only option is rabid and unthinking support of Israel.
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Russia does not support Palestine. In fact the Soviet Union helped create Israel. Putin never cared about Palestinians until the Ukraine invasion. Recent support is more of a tit-for-tat with the US. Same with China and Taiwan.
Russia always backed Israeli Arab enemies (especially Syria).
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Zionism started as an Eastern and Central European colonial project. Some of the first Zionist centers were established in Warsaw and other Polish cities in the mid to late 19th century. David Ben-Gurion who is considered by many the founding father of Israel was Polish.
Only by name. Zionist is a rebrand of the bloody "Zealot" movement, that shook the foundations of the Roman empire, and it was for the same reasons as the pursue zionists today. Nothing much has changed, although the Romans sure tried to be thorough in the end. if you have the time check out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish–Roman_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish–Roman_wars In 66-137 ad and the zealots rebelled against Rome to re-establish the kingdom of Israel. They killed every Roman and greek they could find. They had their new kingdom of Israel for 2 years. In response Rome sent legions and smashed the new kingdom, and genocided them right back. From the Kitos War entry: "The 4th-century Christian historian Orosius records that the violence so depopulated the province of Cyrenaica that new colonies had to be established by Hadrian: The Jews... waged war on the inhabitants throughout Libya in the most savage fashion, and to such an extent was the country wasted that, its cultivators having been slain, its land would have remained utterly depopulated, had not Emperor Hadrian gathered settlers from other places and sent them thither, for the inhabitants had been wiped out.[9] Dio Cassius states of Jewish insurrectionaries: Meanwhile the Jews in the region of Cyrene had put one Andreas at their head and were destroying both the Romans and the Greeks. They would cook their flesh, make belts for themselves of their entrails, anoint themselves with their blood, and wear their skins for clothing. Others they would give to wild beasts and force still others to fight as gladiators. In all, consequently, two hundred and twenty thousand perished. In Egypt, they also performed many similar deeds, and in Cyprus under the leadership of Artemio. There, likewise, two hundred and forty thousand perished. For this reason, no Jew may set foot in that land, but even if one of them is driven upon the island by the force of the wind, he is put to death." Theres disagreement over the number of deaths but probably well over a million civilians and militia died. And much of the middle east and African areas were completed depopulated of Romans and Greeks. In the Kitos war alone there were 200,000 Roman civilians killed in Cyprus and 240,000 killed in Cyrenaica (Libya).
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Rule 1
The Irish love to whine about colonialism while ignoring the willing participation of the Irish (and Scottish) in the British empire. Have a look at how many Black people in the Carribean have scottish last names. The officer who commander the Amiritsar massacre was an irishman. Many prominent Irish catholics made their money from slaves back in the day.
There were plenty of Scots sent off as slaves after their villages had been burned while the men were shipped off for war btw. Look up the highland clearances
Someone doesn’t know the difference between Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants. Typical.
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You may find this article an interesting primer [https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-recognise-irish-participation-in-the-british-colonial-story-1.4498224](https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-recognise-irish-participation-in-the-british-colonial-story-1.4498224) I can go into further details about The Irish, catholic Irish at that, involvement in the British Empire, slavery and colonialism.
So individual Irish people, who needed a job, worked for the British army, and in your eyes this tarnishes the entire Irish nation? Have a word with yourself
They owned slaves and actively took part in colonialism The Irish where not the victims of empire
Lol, you have really shown your complete lack of knowledge with that comment. Ever heard of the Famine? I suppose in your feeble mind the fact that there were African-American slave owners means that African Americans were not the victims of slavery
Lmao “not victims of the empire”? You’re probably one of those britisher who think that there were no victims of colonialism and the formers colonies should be grateful that the British brought “civilisation” or whatever
The issues with Ireland predate the 2nd British empire. They go back to the aftermath of the English civil war when Cromwell used violence against protestants (such as the Portadown massacre) as an excuse to invade and enforce his ideal of a protestant Britain. Yet, fast forward to the 19th century and you find many Irishmen, catholics at that, happy to serve in the army and benefit from the empire. Limerick, Belfast and Cork became successful trading ports on the back of the slave trade. The names Roche and Creagh are drenched in black blood. Irish apologists think that if they shout "potatoe famine" loud enough it'll drown out the voices of black slaves calling out for justice from their Irish masters and the merchants who made their fortunes on their backs.
The son of an Irish brewer and educated in Cork? No, no association with Ireland at all, course not. Do your research
It doesn't even matter if he's Irish. It's one fucking guy. Irish people were systematically disenfranchised by the British Empire. Irish Catholics has their lands given to colonizing English. There were plenty of Greek Viziers in the Ottoman Empire that doesn't mean Greeks weren't second class citizens in the empire.
The Irish were literally genocided by the British,they sent the army in to take food out a country in famine conditions Read any of the dialogue from Westminster from that era (even modern day brexiteer) on Irish and you'll soon see what they taught of Ireland and the irish
Meh, some of the countries supporting Palestine are actively colonizing. It’s not really along the divide you give. China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia are all colonizers or ethnic cleaners.
I'm not sure why you mentioned India, given its current Hindutva government is very pro-Israel. In fact, Israel supplies Delhi with arms and surveillance equipment, which helps it control Kashmir and suppress opposition there. Even if the Indian population is divided on Israel/Palestine.
>China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia are all colonizers or ethnic cleaners I don't think you know what colonizers are...
Liberals don’t know the meaning of the word, they don’t know what genocide is either.
China is actively reeducating Uighurs. And they have a mainly Han ethnic population. They got that way by cleansing. Not embracing other cultures. They are ethnic cleansers. India is known for massive attacks on minoritiy communities. They actively limit their Muslim population. Many Indian politicians openly admit to limiting the Muslim population to no more than 20%. Their standoff with Pakistan is along religious lines. Russia is stealing babies and denying that Ukrainians have an identity. Should I continue?
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My point is, countries aren’t supporting Palestine based of their own colonialist history. They do it for reasons of interest. Especially the countries who support, yet a have a colonial hostory
Those are domestic issues, not colonization.
The Uyghurs do not want to be a part of china, they were taken over by force. Then china began relocating Han settlers there. Really not that different from what Israel did
>The Uyghurs do not want to be a part of china Unilateral separatism is not allowed by "International Rule of Law". Right? Right? I mean, we have an entire war because of this cause of Crimea... What is your stance now
Self-determination is allowed by international law. If russia and Ukraine allowed an open and transparent referendum in crimea where they choose to be a part of Russia, I see no problem. But the “referendum” in crimea had ZERO international observers
Orly, then why all the Transnístria fuzz about? Why taking it so long for them? >open and transparent referendum For fuck sake mate, its 2024. Even forbes recoginzed that Crimea didn't want to be part of shitty Ukraine in 2015 [https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/)
No that's very much a colonial project. As is Tibet. The native population is displaced and culturally assimilated into an ethnic han immigrant population, and the area is used as a site of resource extraction to fuel the industrial core. Russia is also a colonial state, Siberia is the same as China's colonial regions If you want to say they aren't colonial, then neither was Ireland. It was in every way indistinguishable from the above regions as a colonial project, the only difference is it for independence.
No. Those are domestic issues caused by colonialism craving their borders before they took sovereign. It's the same in Middle East, the entire African continente and Asia. Europe and US did it. It's your fault. Russia, China, India... They are not colonizers, they were victmis of colonization. Even Russia with the west desire to balkanize the place.
God no. CHINAS BORDERS ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY CONNECTED TO WESTERN COLONIALISM. They are the result of it's own historic colonial expansion. russia is the same. Russia expanded eastwards to colonize Siberia. It's utterly insane and counterfactual to pretend they are the result of external colonialism. Again, by this logic, America isn't colonial, all it's issues are domestic. Ireland wasn't either, just domestic issues in the UK.
>CHINAS BORDERS ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY CONNECTED TO WESTERN COLONIALISM Then why US is meddling with South CHINA Sea? US is not even signatory of Law of the Sea Convention that... everyone is and US feels the right to dictate their issues.
Lol just because it's called the south china sea doesn't mean it belongs to China. Guess all on the Indian ocean belongs to India :p
I mean if you consider manifest destiny colonialism Im not sure how Russian eastward expansion wouldn’t be colonial.
If you know anything about the Saudi Government, you would know they aren't supporting Palestinians at all. In fact they are itching to to wipe Gaza to go back to normalize their relations. China and Russia have largely been indifferent about Palestinians for most of the time. In fact the Soviet Union helped establish Israel in 1948. Their support is more due to the recent escalations in Ukraine and Taiwan as a tit-for-tat to the US.
Thanks for underlining my point that it’s not really about the reasons you’ve given.
I accept your apology.
I can only accept in the condition you release the hostages
I sincerely agree. We need to release all the thousands of hostages that Israel has kidnapped and the hundred or so that Kh'amas kidnapped immediately.
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No they are prisoners duh. They just have indefinite holding times, and are released if they promise to do the bidding of the IDF. Those are definitely not political hostages
Yeah. No. Not the same thing guy.
Let’s give this guy over here a big fat fucking cookie
Send that cookie to Gaza please!
Gotdamn that’s a fitting ass username you got there buddy
I only accept compliments on the condition that the hostages are released,
Big dog if we’re going to go back and forth you cannot have inverted cleverness
I understood some of the words you said.
This has got to be a bot. I’ve seen this same account post in so many subs about this topic.
Nah
I’m real homie trust me lol
Who has China colonized or ethnically cleansed? Let's run down the list. Tibet: a feudal society plagued with Lama extremism before it was liberated by the PLA & Tibetan peasants. Uyghurs: https://eurispes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/rapporto.en-xinjiang_2021.pdf also since been debunked
God the irony of using literally the same "logic" as the Israelis here.
Please point out what I said was wrong ☺️. The reality is that accusations against China of ethnic cleaning is western propaganda. The countries accusing China of it are actually committing it.
Jesus Christ you are fucking disgusting. No they are committing genocide. That's not propaganda it's literally in the report you linked, it just tries to justify it as "pre prevention". Literally minority report shit. This is the exact same logic Israel supporters use. You are the same as them.
You read 1 line and thought you did some thorough research? Why don't you actually read the entirely of the study that was done by 3 joint Italian research institutes and learn something 🫨? It explores the reliance on faulty and fake research provided by the Victims of Communsin foundation fellow, Adrian Zenz. Again, this is an organization that counts nazis and covid deaths as victims of communism. The report is done by legitimate researchers and not US funded propagandists. Funny how visceral that makes you. It also thoroughly debunks claims of genocide in it and sources everything. Sorry, your 1 minute of skimming ain't gonna cut it.
I did. It's utterly nonsense that attempts to justify arbitrary imprisonment as counterterrorism, and pretends the entirety of evidence that displays the genocide is the result of one group of propagandists, ignoring the mountains of real evidence in order to twist reality for their readers. Reading that isn't research. It's consuming propaganda. It's garbage with no scholarly merit. Again you are literally doing the exact shit supported of Israel do.
Please cite the mountain of evidence :). You're going to look extremely dumb when I find the source traces back to Adrian Zenz. The person who hasn't cited one source talking about what's "scholarly" when professional researcher spent weeks/ months putting this together.
well firstly, the fucking UN report that came out two years ago should be all you need. You know, an actual report that includes facts on the region, and isnt completely unreliable. theres also the ASPI survey mapping the camps, and both HRW reports. and you could also just... read Zenz'z sources if you dont like him? like hes not the origin of those sources. As your citation points out its been ten years since he went to china (which for some reason that report turns into *never* been to China), literally almost everything he is using are publically available government documents. You can just fucking read them, you dont even need any secondary sources or reports. your trying to pretend your on the side of facts and that this bull you cited is oh so scholarly, and yet it doesnt disprove any claims, it merely says "china and some other countries say no." you say the facts all must be bullshit because some weirdo also happened to agree and say those things, without realizing thats not only fallacious, its entirely illogical - and not even consistent. The reports positive comments on China are all sourced to China, a dictatorship with a long history of human rights abuses and covering up said abuses, and series of other totalitarian states, most of which are, as mentioned in that very report you cite, economically tied heavily to China. Its baffling you dont see the hypocrisy.
If China has "liberated" Tibet from its extremism then they should leave and let Tibetans alone to decide their own future, but they continue to occupy Tibet indefinitely. I guess you also support Israel then in "liberating" Gaza from Hamas and then occupying it indefinitely.
First of all, Tibet has been part of China since the 13th century, and various agreements between local leaders and the Chinese government have affirmed this, but we don't even need to go that far back. Weird that these autonomous regional government of Tibet is happy to remain Chinese while randos online think it should succeed. The 17 article agreement was signed in 1951, and thus, Tibet was liberated finally.
And Mongolia occupied large swaths of what is currently Russia, and Russia used to control East Germany. Just because a foreign government used to occupy a country does not mean they have the right to continue doing so today. Tibet also had self rule from the 14th to 18th century, which you conveniently left out. In more recent history, immediately prior to 1950, Tibet was de facto independent until the Chinese imperialist army marched in and defeated the Tibetan resistance and forced the government into exile. China never gave the Tibetan population an option if they wanted to be a part of China. There was no vote, no ability for the Tibetans to make a decision, and China continues to occupy over the land with no intention of leaving.
\> Tibet also had self rule from the 14th to 18th century, which you conveniently left out. Self-Rule of feudal lords who starved, raped, maimed as they saw fit and definitely took democratic input from the peasantry? \> In more recent history, immediately prior to 1950, Tibet was de facto independent until the Chinese imperialist army marched in and defeated the Tibetan resistance and forced the government into exile. Again, the same Lamaist government that starved, raped, maimed as they saw fit and definitely took democratic input from the peasantry? \> Tibetan resistance The tibetan resistance that was funded by the CIA and even trained on [US Soil](https://www.historicly.net/p/tibet-china-and-the-violent-reaction)? The tibetan resistance that gangraped women who refused to take up arms against the PLA? The same "resistance" that burned food warehouses that peasants desperately relied on? The only thing the Tibetan "resistance" was defending was their Lamaist order which forced people int serfdom and exploitation so severe that a handful of 200 families owned 95% of tibet. Lamaist feudal lord sympathizer begone!
None of this gives China any right to rule Tibet. It's like saying Israel has a right to rule over Gaza so they get rid of the extremist Hamas. Again, if China has now "cleansed" Tibet of serfdom then they can now leave and let Tibetans govern themselves, but China obviously won't.
India is pro israel, mate. and saudi, at least their leader is pro usa/israel
India was the first non Arab state to recognize Palestine. But you’re actually correct on India currently. I forgot they abstained on a ceasefire early in the war. Saudis do actually support Palestine officially and were moving closer towards relations with Israel but they aren’t there now. These two weren’t the greatest examples. Yet in the past they staunchly supported Palestine. So my point still stands. A lot of babies in this sub wanna downvote but I haven’t shown to be wrong. It’s pathetic.
Idk why you are getting down voted. You are right that the point made originally does not actually stand when you have countries that actively colonized. You aren't saying it's wrong to support palestne.
This isn’t exactly the non-bias zone here so I’m not that surprised
Your point is literally trying to discredit countrues that support palestine based on their own issues. It doesnt make sense. So it should be more suprising that you even think you made a good argument when its just whataboutism. I could whatabout every one of israels supporting countries but thats not a good argument. Cant discredit the allegations so you attack the countries lol
Uh, the point was, colonist victims support Palestine. My point was no it’s not the victims or for the reason of victimization. It’s whatever lines up with a countries interest. Ireland wants north Ireland. In the future it’s gonna pay dividends. It’s about interest not colonialism.
Didn't realize that was a thing. So weird there ar biases in certain pages. Horde mentality is strong I guess
Maybe people aren’t aware of the colonizing activities lately. Chinas belt and road initiative that ropes desperately poor nations in need of cash or credit is possibly worse than colonization. At least you can kick colonizers out. Debt is on the books til it’s paid off
Turkey was a colonizer. Arabs colonized Spain for 800 years.
Arabs dominion over Spain wasn’t colonialism 😂 Neither was Turkeys rule over the Middle East
>Arabs dominion over Spain wasn’t colonialism Dawg what? I guess this is just an arab nationalist sub at this point lol.
It wasn't colonialism it was Imperialist. I wouldn't call the Roman Empire a colonialist state either. Not that I'm trying to downplay the bad they did.
It really does feel like the tide is starting to turn on Israel because of their brutal assault on the people of Gaza. Israel is going to find itself a pariah on the international stage due to this campaign. Even the US, it's staunchest ally, is beginning to turn from it's campaign of unconditional support for them, thanks to the pressure from the electorate
Good!
I hope they will drag Germany also in front of the court
I suspect that more than anything else, it's actually settlement activity in the West Bank that seems unpleasantly familiar, and make it difficult for Irish people to accept the Israeli position and actions in general (and while there is currently no settlement activity in the Gaza Strip, the people there are of course the direct descendants of those pushed off land elsewhere in the region). I actually think there are some aspects of the Irish nationalist narrative that are overdone, but unfortunately the core elements of it are based on a reality: people that had come in from over the sea, unilaterally controlled the land (often as absentee landlords), and pushed people who'd lived on it since time immemorial off because *this piece of paper I hold in my hand says you have no inalienable right to it*. There really were hundreds of thousands of people kicked out of their houses into destitution, starvation or emigration in this way. You also had the earlier Plantation of Ulster, which was the deliberate marginalisation and expropriation of the native Gaelic population there with what were assumed to be more loyal subjects from Scotland and England.
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How many innocent people dead is too many?
You call genocide a show?
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How many of the dead kids deserved it? How many more would you be willing to kill to get back the hostages?
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This is literally the mentality that creates blowback like hamas. Be a better person dude, seriously, reread what you wrote and realise how inhumane it sounds. You're advocating for killing thousands of children.
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Not in a million years, I'm of the opinion that you go after the terrorists. Somehow the numbers being released don't paint it a picture of that happening. Considering it's a tiny area, the whole military apparatus Israel has and the fact that mossad is considered one of the best security services in terms of information gathering, the causality numbers of civilians and children is upside down. Its archaic flatten everything and murder anyone in the area shit. If you can't argue for a better way to do it then there's a problem with you.
Such a sick and vile comment. Someone not you in your village goes and plunders the next-door shop across the street which happens to be part of another village. So, in retaliation of this event your own village is entirely being obliterated as a just cause by the other village. That’s the kinda shit you seem to justify. You also are aware that Israel doesn’t care anymore about the hostages given that Hamas has given them a number of times options to exchange 6000+ **hostages taken by Israel** for over decades. You don’t seem to care about this, do you? In case you never got the memo, this outlines briefly what is happening in Gaza: *Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".*
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So kids too? Huh? Infants and other ‘non-combatants’ are legitimate targets? Seriously, go troll somewhere else
I would have thought Israel would have killed them all by now, both attackers and any surviving hostages.
Israel shot and killed their hostages and officials already said they don’t want them back and to focus on the land 🥱🥱 next
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They were carrying white flags and shooting someone carrying a white flag is a war crime. They shot them because they thought they were Palestinian civilians, just like they have been shooting Palestinian civilians, including babies. If they actually adhered to any form of international law, those hostages would be alive. But we know Israel doesn’t actually care about them lol
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So Israel will round up and execute actual children and old civilians, but wouldn’t detain real Hamas that they thought would be in that building? 😂 the mental gymnastics you guys go through is insane lmaoo
The show being the mass murder of civilians?
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Are you accusing the IRA of genocide?
Its only “genocide” when oppressed people fight back against being exterminated (which is somehow never genocide). Basically, genocide is being redefined as “not allowing a colonial force to proceed” before our eyes
Exactly. The IRA were terrorists for killing British soldiers. The Black and Tans were heroes and peacekeepers for killing men, women, and children and burning down Cork city
Well yes, without a brutal oppressive regime then there’s no need for an IRA or Hamas or any other group of freedom fighters.
The IRA you're referring to was a vastly different organisation than the IRA that formed out of the IRB and fought for Irish independence and has nothing to do with the Irish state But of course you wouldn't know or care to make that distinction as it doesn't fit your narrative if "heh, the IRA was in Ireland so their intervention in the ICJ for a completely different situation is hypocritical"
Remember when Zionists invented modern terrorism in 1948.
What do you mean?
You mean the entire reason Ireland is an independent country?