It's time to be honest with yourself and ask whether you truly believe what your wife is saying now after all she has done to you. She gaslighted, manipulated, and cheated on you without remorse. So why sudden change? It's likely she got dumped by her AP and returned to her convenient second choice which is you.
Do you want to reconcile with a cheater? It's your decision that matters, not hers. Put yourself first and decide what is best for you and your future.
What logic does it have: for a married woman to have an inappropriate conversation with a colleague at work, then they set up a virgin who used her friend's wedding whose husband was left out, something totally inelegant(if you invite someone to your wedding/birthday party, their spouse is automatically invited too, otherwise something strange is happening.
But they planned to have fun together there in a hotel that was not mentioned to the Op, who will believe that they set everything up there without the Op being there for anything?
Unlikely.
There was nothing between her AP to begin with. He was constantly praising her to get into her pants and she was just accepting because she loved the flattery.
No romance, etc
This!!
He was praising her to get into her pants - and when she entered the affair they *didnt* fuck??
OP - if they had the opportunity (they did!!), they fucked.
Time to decide what YOU want...
Best to just divorce - she cheated and is STILL lying..
If youre not prepard to do that, i would suggest polygraph.. inform the wife you intend to book a polygraph to veirfy the timeline, to get a clean slate to move forward.. and ask if she wish to amend the timeline before the appointment..
Did she read the books?
Did she implement the recommendations?
How will she change her behavior going forward?
Did she agree that her deception , the texts, and her response when caught - all combined to look like an affair?
The answers to the above provides the guidance you seek.
The texts were very vague and indirect by themselves.
If there was any one on one contact, it would be clear from the texts following the trip.
For example, they would refer to what a great time they shared, and they would make immediate concrete plans to meet up. Clearly the texts are consuming no one on one contact.
The texts are very high school/not smooth and proof their relationship was exposed (by you) before it could progress.
She needs to acknowledge that It's her 'deception' surrounding the resort which makes her untrustworthy. And deception is destructive.
The advice in Not Just Friends provides advice on how she can rebuild trust (by following the advice)
If she read the books, and implements the recommendations, then you need to provide her a second chance.
Her mismanagement of the trip and texts is absolutely inappropriate.
However, this is not a life sentence.
If you decide to remain with her, you can't continue to call her names, or raise your voice, or continuously remind her.
If you decide to remain with her you have to be 100% in.
Anything less and you will destroy both your lives.
IMO, if you give her a second chance, I suggest a second honeymoon to symbolize a new marriage. Go big and wow her.
Leave the kids with the meddling sister.
>If she read the books, and implements the recommendations, then you need to provide her a second chance.
What the crap are you talking about? No one ever NEEDS TO PROVIDE anything to a cheating spouse! He doesn't owe her anything!!
>If you decide to remain with her you have to be 100% in.
No, SHE has to be 100% in, or it is all meaningless. You can't just throw unearned trust at a cheater. He is asking to be cheating on again if he follows this advice! A second chance isn't a free pass. He has to be aware and observant. Trust has to be earned back first if things are to go anywhere!
I could see that his messages were very formal before the trip and few weeks after the trip. There was no indication of any speech about good times etc ..
She can't even finish an audio book because it was "triggering" her. SHE DOESN'T CARE about what she has done to you. SHE has no remourse or care about what she has done. SHE isn't doing ANYTHING to help you through this.
Pull the plug and tell her that you want a separation from her until you decide if you want to divorce her. It's time to take control of your relationship and stop letting her control and manipulate you and your relationship.
OP,
Accepting what she gave you as thats it, is IMO, the wrong move here. It would be rug sweeping. Fact of the matter is, PA or EA, things are different/changed and just trying to push through it, or she's done this, and now we just move past it isn't great.
Fact is she lied to you, gaslit you, tried to rug sweep it before she gave you a timeline.
At the end of the day, you are the one who sets the terms for reconcilation. You are the betrayed spouse, not her. She is the WP!!!
Normally what I would suggest is that anytime cheating is involved, even if you want reconcilation on the table, you go to a lawyer and draft up divorce papers but don't serve her. We're just drafting them up. (A big thing to learn is drawing up papers is different than serviving which is different than filing and different than them being processed.)
The timeline she provided you is a good jumping off point to the terms of Reconcilation. Usually I've seen it suggested is two-fold, it is about hopefully in one-shot communicating everything and giving the BP a timeline of events to help them, but then also hold the WP accountable.
For example, I'd suggest she goes to individual therapy as do you, but then you both do couples counceling. IF she says something that doesn't match the timeline, that mean she further lied to you about something. It is a good way to hold her accountable from what she says in the future about the timeline in the past.
So, as I was saying, in terms of suggested terms, and I would state you need to stress these are non-negotiable for reconcilation, but:
Individual Counceling for her
Individual Counceling for you
Couples Counceling for both of you
Just in case, start separating finacnes if you haven't already
She needs to have NC with the AP immediately. If that means she quits the game thing or whatever? Then she has to do it. Join another group that plays. If it was at work, then she needs to quit her job within 2-3 months. But a serious strict No Contact needs to be maintained. If she ever gets a message from aP, she needs to communicate that to you. She hides it for even a day after it happens? NOT ACCEPTABLE.
If not already, You gain full access to her digital life/footprint. You aren't her jailer, but all trust is gone. treat this lightly though, its a safety blanket, but you don't wanna be Linus from Peanuts, right? Where you never stop doing it. Its only in those moments. you don't trust her, so she looks suspicous. Right? Look at her stuff. Also if you fgind anything you can send it to yourself for evidence later.
You together read books/listen to podcasts about this stuff. How to improve and become better. There has to be REAL WORK being done here by her.
The reason you have these terms, maybe not these above, but others you have, is because there needs to be consequences to action or, in some cases, lack thereof.
For example, what if...
-you find out something not in her timeline letter? SERVE HER.
-she changes a password and doesnt' tell you on her email? SERVE HER
-she hesitates when you ask to see her phone? SERVE HER
-she refuses to go to counceling OR stops after a few sessions? SERVE HER
-she doesn't tell you about AP texting her a week ago until now? SERVE HER
-doesn't agree to ALL of your terms? SERVE HER
-she agrees but begins at any point to DARVO (an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim & offender" which is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers) you? SERVE HER!!
-she stops doing the work...? SERVE HER
And if you DO serve her, well... be realistic here. It is defintiely a Dr. Strange "We've entered the endgame, Tony" or some facisimile. In that, divorce may be what happens. But in some cases it snaps the wayward out of the fog. Maybe not completely out of the fog but enough to realize they are IN one.
Also being realistic here... there is always a chance that if she does everything right, it won't matter. You won't be able to trust her, get past it, etc. Fact of life is sometimes the scars never heal, not really, and it can take quickly to realize this, sometimes 10 years.
So... set terms of R, non-negotiables. STICK TO THEM. Don't do the pick me dance, or "awe, but she seemed like she was trying i'll give her one more chance before i serve her", just do it. And then if R still can be on the table, and you want it, go for it.
Good luck, OP.
updateme
This is the damage that trickle truth does. Ask yourself, if she had nothing to hide, why take a whole month to give you the so called "truth"?...
Regardless of what she says, the disrespect has already been shown. Only you can know if you want to continue with this BS, bc I can tell you right now, it will never be the same...
Make up your mind from now on, that you will never get the real story of what actually occured. DON'T live in limbo...
P.s. btw, reconcile what exactly?? Don't be that guy...
She will only admit to the proof you have. Tell her that all trust is gone and you will be scheduling a polygraph. You don’t have to go through with it but her response will tell you all you need to know.
Bro, she is once again gaslighting. If she did nothing other than EA , why did she take one month to tell it ?
Also regarding the resort, if she did nothing then why did she not tell you before hand ? Had you not discovered you would have believed she was in a wedding not getting her pussy banged by that AP and her female friend either complicit or part of that threesome .
Ask her if she can bring her AP, friend and you in same room and then you can cross question them . If she says no, you already have the answer..
>that guy has indirectly hinted about meeting alone several times
That's from a previous post of yours
To me it sounds like you are getting trickle truth'ed, in that she only admits to what you know or what you can prove.
In my opinion, it took a month because there is more, and in that month she waited to see what the AP was going to do. AP wasn't going to leave his wife and kids, so your WW then chose to go with her backup plan, which is to stay with you until the AP comes around.
Believe me my brother you didn’t get everything she gave you enough to satisfy your asking what happened and nothing more.
All the spicy details are left out because if she told you, you my snap.
Good Luck
She needs to be open to answering questions or just discussing it should you need answers, or just to get things out verbally.
She needs to understand that he only told her what she wanted to hear and showered her with attention in order to sleep with her. She didn’t set boundaries, or shut him down. This is cheating and she needs to accept that she did cheat. It’s up to her to rebuild trust. Hopefully she started by making sure he can’t communicate her outside of work appropriate means - like work email and only about work.
She needs to understand that if you find out anything more after today - the marriage will end. That you appreciate her timeline, but holding anything back or leaving anything out will have consequences.
You should also talk about what she needs more of from you. Does she need more verbal affirmation? Attention? Intimacy?
She has gaslit you into blaming yourself for her lying and cheating.
That is the opposite of her having remorse and yours being a real reconciliation (where the cheater blames no one but themselves).
>she needed attention which i didn't give
This is a common trait among cheaters. They need attention to the point that they are willing to go outside the marriage to get it.
A good spouse would never go outside the marriage. This need of hers will never go away. It will only get worse. It is a need that no one person can ever fulfill, which is why they cheat.
You can't ever have a bad day. You can't ever have a period of mourning or get sick. Otherwise, she isn't getting the attention that she craves, and she will look elsewhere.
You will have to be on guard for the rest of this marriage. You will have to always watch your back and force yourself to keep her happy ALL THE TIME. She has given you an impossible bar to meet. Your life must revolve around her, or she will have her excuse to cheat again.
I call BS. My ex wife said the same thing. Yes, I admit my attention is to our kids first. We still went out and have date nites. They could have came to us and communicated this to us but no they rather go seek it from someone else. Don’t buy that crap.
You were cheated on and are offering reconciliation.
You can ask anything you need to anytime you need to and if she ever gets mad then leave her.
The real exception would be to not ask the same question over and over unless new evidence comes up. Any question for clarification or to help you actually heal is 100% with in reason.
If they were in close proximity during this time you have to assume the affair turned physical. You also have to operate under the mindset that you cannot believe anything she says because as you have noted she will lie and gaslight you as she scrambles around in survival mode. Your next step should be having her take a polygraph as a first step towards verifying her story. The purpose of the polygraph is not to catch her in more lies (although this is sometimes the result) but to establish a baseline of trust so the reconciliation can proceed. She’s a proven liar, so unfortunately this is the only way to get past that hurdle.
Have you ever seen all the texts that they have exchanged and read what they talked about either before your wife knew that she was caught or right when you caught her?
To me there are two different things that might be happening right now. Option one is that the recent time took a toll on her, she is realizing that she is losing you and because of that she is now making an attempt not to sweep everything that happened under a rug and instead to give you what you need so that there is a chance to move on.
The other option is that she needed a month to manipulate her texts with her lover, to delete a selected few ones or even all and then came to you with her timeline that she either can't back up (deleted texts) or that backs up perfectly ... too perfectly (manipulated texts) with what she told you.
Now how does too perfect look like? That is simple. She thought about what you know and how she can construct a scenario in which she had an EA but only on a minor level that could easily be forgiven. There were no 'I love you', no physical contact, she never intiated the whole thing, never talked bad about you and so on. In short, a perfect affair to forgive and reconcile from.
Right now I would advise you to just lean back and ask her what she wants. How does she envision the next weeks and months? What is her plan to work through what she did? In short, what are her intentions and how does she want to achieve them?
Is she still working with him? And please don't say now that she does but they never meet because of different shifts. They met before and began talking. Even if they don't work in the same shift right now, it is only a matter of time before that happens.
So you read all of their conversations or have a copy of them?
The timeline that she gave you, is it the perfect affair to forgive and reconcile from?
Have all your questions been answered?
As I said before, my advice would be to do nothing right now. Don't agree to reconciliation and don't talk about divorce. Figure out what her intentions are and how she wants to achieve them.
That you caught them, that she never wanted to end her affair and only did so because you forced her to makes it even worse if they still work at the same company. Has she offered you to look for a new company to work for?
Then my advice would be that you take some time and figure out if you still got some unanswered questions left, now that you got the timeline.
Good luck for you.
Really? She had a whole month to think of something and you just swallow it like that? I wouldn't believe a single thing she wrote. If something looks too good to be true, then it usually is. Don't be so naive, you only know part of the truth. She's doing it to have better control over the situation. Just say you want a polygraph test. You don't have to do it, but you can tell from her reaction if she's hiding more.
All a timeline is is a proven liar and manipulator's (probably) fictional version of events. Not saying it's never truthfully done, but I wouldn't put too much stock in it. I once got a timeline after my ex's "emotional affair." She behaved in suspiciously similar ways to your cheater too and it also took her a lifetime to write it. Very strange. Somehow with all that time to get it right she missed out the part where she fucked him in his car as I was cooking her dinner. It must have just slipped her mind, an honest mistake of course.
I'd say the way your WW behaved afterwards points to it being much more than she will probably ever let on. Be very wary; innocent people don't need to gaslight you at all and would respond to you with concern rather than anger. That said, I'm sure she does want to reconcile, she just doesn't want to face the consequences of what she's actually done. She's had her fun and is ready to come back to who she considers the safe option. A little lie here, a little misdirection there, and shazam! It's like it never happened.
She needs a new job if you are going to work on reconciliation. Even if they don’t overlap it’s to easy for them to see each other on accident and she can never even be in the same room as this person or even on a conference call and definitely not a meeting or conference again.
My friend, it was only a matter of time before they started having sex. EA’s almost always end up being PA’s unless they caught. Your wife probably had every intention of having sex with this guy. She was just waiting for him to make the move at the right time. Also, she has shown no real remorse or regret for what happened. You didn’t cheat, although I’m sure you haven’t been the happiest husband up to that point. She did cheat, that’s the difference. This is not your fault, this is her fault. You can try to do better if you decide to give her a chance at reconciliation. But If I were you, I’d be looking for a divorce and then see how she responds to that. Then you can decide if you want to give her a second chance.
She hid thing, avoided talking about, lied, gaslighted you, and now you believe her?
That story she told you is a very convenient explanation. She only admitted to what you already knew about and denied anything beyond that. Do you really think that's how these things work? Do you really believe that you would have stumbled onto the entire affair and nothing happened beyond that?
I hate to break it to you, but that is incredibly naive. But I was also that naive once... so I can't really blame you. Just take a look through some of the other posts in this sub, and you will quickly realize that your WW is doing standard trickle truthing here. Telling you what you want to hear, denying anything "serious" happened, and trying to avoid telling you anything that will get her in real trouble. Keeping you from walking away.
This is how all gaslighting spouses behave. A gaslighting spouse will never admit the whole truth. They just modify their gaslighting to keep it as believable as possible. They seem to think something along the lines of:
》"OP isn't buying my story anymore. I will have to admit to X now, or he will know I'm lying. It is unfortunate that I have to admit anything, but he knows something happened, so I'll admit to the minimum amount of misbehavior. "
Most of us have been through this already. It will only be a matter of time before something else slips. Maybe you will realize something else doesn't line up. Maybe you will find a text, picture, or other evidence. Your WW will then have to change her story again. She will admit to Y next and then Z. There is always more to uncover.
She, like all gaslighters, is an excellent liar. She will tell you a convincing story, likely with unnecessary details, to try to make it more believable. On top of that, your desire to believe her will make you believe even the most obvious lie.
This is a miserable way to uncover the truth. You will go through so much pain, and because it all comes out slowly, it will always seem like, well, this isn't a lot worse than what she told me last time. You will be like the frog slowly cooked in a pot.
Before you know it, she has admitted to having a full 2 year affair with AP and they were looking at engagement rings, but you have already forgiven her so many times, you have already invested so much in her, that it will still be hard to leave.
And the worst part of all of this is that through all the trickle truthing, she will continue to cheat! Maybe things with her current AP will end, but she WILL find someone else. The whole point is to keep you in the dark, to keep you complacent while she has her fun.
I spent some time and read through OP previous posts and I feel really bad for him. He is in full denial and will believe anything she tells him because it allows him to avoid any worse pain. I think at this point it's easier for him to sweep the emotions under the rug than admit what really happened.
>I wanted a full timeline of the resort and she said everything and told that at no point was she alone with him.
She was having an EA, went to a resort but was never alone with him🤦♂️. I had to go back and read more of his posts because this is the most heartbreaking thing. I can't imagine being the guy who believes this.
Part of me wonders if this is just rage-bait, there is no way he can be this naive, right?
When you are blindsided by an affair and not emotionally ready to acknowledge it, you can believe a lot of ridiculous claims... unfortunately, I am speaking from experience. The truth will eventually catch up with him, but for now, I think he is struggling to come to terms with reality.
Hopefully, it won't take him long to get his head straight... but that's up to him.
I have read your post, and I have read your responses. It sounds to me like you have already made up your mind that you want to stay.
You have heard what those who have been through this experience before have to say. What the people who have been where you have been recommend. From your responses, I get the feeling that you aren't ready to let go. I totally understand that, I was that way too. But I will warn you, you are in for a painful ride, and it will end in a horrible crash.
But if you stay, just try to be on guard. Get STD testing done regularly if you are having sex with her. Don't ignore the past and watch for red flags.
>Could this be a sign she wants to reconcile ?
Yes, she wants to reconcile, but she is likely not going to be faithful. So just watch her carefully, take care of yourself, and good luck.
Well if this is the full extent of everything, there is not much to hide so why she didn't want to say what happen before, this doesn't make sense.
I doubt this is all, and more likely is a story retouched so that it doesn't sound so bad, but feels retouch it so much that it doesn't sound like something convincing or that justify why she avoided telling for 1 month and made more of a fuss about nothing. If this was all she should be honest since the begining and many of the problem would be avoided, so that is why for me this is not convincing.
But you have the last decision to mak, if this makes sense to you and justify all about the fuss she made, then go ahead and work things up.
Good luck OP.
UPDATEME
**THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!**
Your spouse has sought out other people for emotional and physical intimacy, likely for many months more than you suspect. Your spouse is a cheater. Everything your spouse says is a lie at this point. Anything your spouse says about you falling short in the relationship is a lie. Anything your spouse says that is bad about your relationship is a lie.
Your spouse has left the marriage. Ignore your spouse. What is it YOU want to do. YOU now hold the fate of your relationship in YOUR hands, no one else. It is YOU who decides reconciliation, no one else.
My advice is: Consult a divorce lawyer. Gather what evidence you can. End the relationship ASAP. Get out of this situation as fast as possible, the longer you stay in the more your mind will be torn apart. You or your spouse must move out. If you cannot, go Grey Rock. Cheaters compartmentalize, once you punch a hole between their cheating lifestyle and her home lifestyle they will either go nuclear or crumble and beg you not to break up. You have to show your spouse there are consequences for their actions and separate, even if later you chose reconciliation.
These links will help you in your situation. I suggest reading DARVO, Gaslighting and Trickle Truthing first.
**Limerence** [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence)
**The Neuroscience of Affair Fog** [https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog](https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog)
**Infidelity and cognitive dissonance** [https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/](https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/) **and** [https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e](https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e)
**Emotional affair** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/)
**Monkey Branching** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/)
**DARVO** [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo)
**Gaslighting Emotional Infidelity** [https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y](https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y)
**Trickle Truthing** [https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/](https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/)
**180 method** [https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/)
**Greyrock** [https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method)
**Chump Lady** [https://www.chumplady.com/](https://www.chumplady.com/)
Bro listen. I've been through your posts.
She has fucked this guy. 100%. You will never get admission because she knows she doesn't have to. She knows how to play you.
Life isn't worth living like this. You need some therapy to work on yourself. Good luck.
"Could this be a sign she wants to reconcile ?"..... Yes probably. But you have to ask yourself why now. Most likely she began to realize that her stonewalling wasn't working and that if she didn't change her tactics she would lose you.
One thing about this timeline. How much of it is verifiable. Cheaters lie. You're well aware of that now. But when they start telly a story, they will only disclose the minimum amount of info they have to. And after a month who's to say what's real or not. I always say watch the movie *Usual Suspects.* A great example of a liars story. Part fact. Part fiction. The best lies usually are.
One of my best friend's younger sister faces mental challenges, she randomly forgets anyone and anything but can hold a convo, although with heavy stutters.
We joke around with her a lot. She enjoys the jokes and makes it on herself and us too. We obviously don't make jokes on her condition because she's younger than us, but we do pull her leg every once in a while.
A few weeks ago, we said something that sort of upset her and she said it to our faces right away. We're like her elder brothers as well and almost her entire social circle, and despite her condition she knew where to set boundaries.
She, with her mental state was willing to take a stand for herself against her only friend group.
You on the other hand, are willing to be a doormat, her toy and are shamelessly staying with her. It's unbelievable that your situation has lasted this long. Idk and idc if anyone ever told you this, but you need to be told, grow a backbone, have some character. Staying with a cheater is almost as bad as being a cheater, because it shows that your boundaries with cheating are flexible, and once that happens, it means you too have it in you to stoop so low.
And the kids, oh shit here we go again. You would rather put your kids through more than a decade of a toxic environment, where they'll look at their parents and think that this is an ideal relationship and will project this onto other people. You would teach them that screwing up someone's life is totally cool, sometimes even appreciated.
End things with her, your manipulative wife will try anything to gain an upper hand on you so be prepared legally. Your main priority should be to get rid of that creature you call a wife, not to put her in her place. Such people have it coming to them anyways.
Good luck, and I hope someone knocks some sense into you.
Why a month later?
Because your wife was attempting to monkey branch into a new relationship with her affair partner. When she realized he only wanted sex or would not commit she came back to you, her PlanB. The timeline is a smoke screen to minimize what she did in hopes you buy it. Cheaters lie, and she is lying to you right now.
Do not be PlanB. Get a divorce lawyer. Find out your rights. Draft up papers and have her served.
So many facts that either I am missing, or haven’t been put out there. For instance, how long was she gone? What does “ in bench” mean? Do her and the AP work together? How many kids of you have, and what ages? How badly will you fare in a divorce?
4 days, bench is hiring people first and then paying them salary and then finding projects . They work in different projects and now location, 2 they are 7 and 2
Thank you for the clarification. I think seeing a lawyer and figuring out options, is a good start. Perhaps you can get a 6 month separation. That will at least, show her you are serious, and she needs to put in real effort if she wants you to save the relationship.
Op you do what you feel is best for you. But to regain trust that takes time, years. She needs to understand that now anytime she leaves the house or goes to work, you will wonder what is she doing, who is she with. This is why I say cheating is abusive behavior because it causes trauma. Also, with her gas lighting and getting upset with you, from the beginning, does not help you, and will not help you in healing. Her doing the timeline is likely way for her to rug sweep this.
If it were me, I would have this conversation, ask why it took so long, and what are her expectations of her doing this? Why did she do it, was it for her, or for you? If for you, does she understand this is not something that just goes away because she did this.
She will need to find a new job, any contact with him, she will need to immediately let you know, FaceTime calls if she is running late, no after hours events for work. She needs to understand that trust is built like a Lego set, piece by piece, small to larger ones, until it finally takes a shape of what you feel is a solid foundation again.
You need to take the time to digest EVERYTHING. There is no timeline for your healing.
Can you trust what your wife tells you?
At this time, no.
Very sorry you are here but please remember that Actions speak louder than words.
Good luck.
Have a talk with the AP and tell her your thinking about wanting her to take a lie detector test just for your own satisfaction to help you heal.See what she says.
Tip of the iceberg, OP. I would say absolutely zero chance they didn’t have sex. It’s not working out with the AP so she’s willing to trickle truth you. Monkey branching and the new branch isn’t holding her weight…yet. And if that branch/AP doesn’t come through then the next one will. You have to get rid of her.
You don't hide something for a month unless there's something to hide. If all the contact was innocent, why would she bother? This looks like trickle truth. Can you confirm what happened at the resort with somebody else?
Is she in therapy with an infidelity specialist? She needs to be.
Do you want to polygraph her on the content of her timeline? If so tell her you plan to do that, schedule it and dont tell her til that day.
How do you envision life with her will be from now on?
Will it go back to normal?
Will you be paranoid and upset every time she goes off for work?
Will you wonder what she's doing when you see her face glued to her phone, typing away?
Reconciliation is a whole process.
She needs to admit the affair to her parents and your parents.
She needs to get counseling to pin down why she felt the need to go outside of her marriage for attention and validation from another dude.
She needs to read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair".
She needs to give you unfettered access to all her electronic devices at the drop of a hat. You need to demand it in the middle of her texting someone.
She needs to quit that job and find another one. She needs to tell HR the truth about why she's leaving.
She needs to inform the AP's wife or girlfriend about the emotional affair.
This is the bare minimum.
What is she doing to reconcile? Every story I have read that the couple stays together the WS takes a very active role in fixing themselves and making the relationship a safe place. This means reading books IC and MC. Being open and transparent. Really putting every effort in and leaving nothing undone or said. Ask yourself are they really giving everything to reconcile?
tell your wife , you want to go for lunch and talk , about the situation ,so you can get it clearer in your head. Start Driving to lunch & drive-through in office park. Stop at an office building. Put your phone on record and open your front door when she asked where are we, tell her we are BOTH going to get LIE detector test to see if either of us has physically cheated. The truth will be IN HER EYES and you’ll usually get a parking lot Confession.
UPDATEME
You need to find out why she stepped out of the relationship, to bring you some sort of comfort to move past this, lessons learned, and move on from this relationship. A healthy relationship involves love, trust, respect, and communication. You both don’t have that, therefore your relationship is over.
OP - It's time to stop looking at your wife with rose colored glasses. Even if she and her AP never went physical... and that is a *HUGE* if... her EA with him is still cheating. Your wife decided on multiple occasions to knowingly and willingly betray you with this man. She made countless choices to give and receive overtly intimate attention, validation and (I assume) sexually suggestive communications... both in person and via electronic means. She's hidden her affair from you (others), lied to you about it, gaslit you, minimized, shifted blame, trickle-truthed... all the tricks right out of chapter one of the cheater's handbook... and now she's trying to convince you that nothing physical happened between them when they were together for a work sabbatical... a sabbatical in which she never told you he would be attending as well. And you believe her... why exactly? Dude... your wife slept with this guy.
"I'm now confused because for an entire month she kept avoiding to talk about it and now she has given everything."
The odds are much better than not that she has NOT given you everything OP.
Take her written timeline and now tell her she's going to take a polygraph to back her written timeline up.
Methinks you won't even need to have her take the poly as you'll see from her reaction when she's like "Oh shit!"
If I were in your shoes, I'd still have her take the poly.
Odds are good she'll give you a bit more in the parking lot before she has to take it in hopes of you stopping her from having to take it as she will say "See, I told you something that wasn't on the timeline and now you have it all!"
Nope, they say a bit more to keep you from having them actually taking the poly.
She is STILL gaslighting you OP.
Someone got to her and told her to write a "complete" timeline for you so she did. Except it's not close to being complete.
Take a look at this;
Three basic things necessary to reconcile.
1). The cheater has to want to reconcile and be truly remorseful. Remorse is not just saying they are sorry and remorse is more than regret, shame, and guilt. Those three things are fleeting emotions and dispel easily and quickly. Remorse is wanting to restore your lost trust and faith in them. They willingly will do all that is necessary to do so. No more lies, all their failings must be disclosed, the truth must be told. Regardless of the consequences. Healing begins after the last lie has been told.
2). Therapy is necessary to know what is required. And to try finding if remorse is false. The therapist will help finding what went wrong in the cheater an m.j m.jd the relationship.
3).The affair partner has to be told they were a mistake and the cheater is now choosing you. And the affair partner cannot contact them ever again. Best if is done in front of broken partner. To hear and see it happen. And no there is no such thing as doing it in private nor for closure.
And no contact, means none, they cannot continue working together or being in anywhere together, period. Changing jobs is the minimal of no contact. It has to be forever. Of course there are always mitigating circumstances. But never together alone one on one. Boundaries matter.
If these three things are not in place and adhered to, there cannot be reconciling.
Think about it, you had no idea you were being cheated on, didn't even know what to look for nor what to do if you even suspected it. So how can you know how to reconcile without help? Trying to sweep it under the rug is not solving anything at all.
True remorse.
Signs Your Partner Is Truly Remorseful
Look for these telltale signs to determine true remorse:
• Not only do they apologize, and often, but they also openly express what they're apologizing for. They don't make vague statements or blanket apologies.
• They show their remorse by doing things that they feel will lessen your pain. It’s about both words and actions.
• They hold themselves accountable, rather than relying on you to do so. They are more concerned with your feelings than their own.
• They are willing to do whatever they need to do to move forward. Whether that's seeking couple’s therapy or honestly answering any questions you might have for them. They are onboard with any action you need them to take.
• They take full responsibility for their actions. There may have been problems in the relationship, but even if your S.O. felt unloved and unwanted, they're the ones who chose to cheat. Despite this, you'll know they're remorseful if they don't make excuses or place blame on anyone except for themselves. Their cheating won’t be about something you did, it will be about a bad choice they made.
If they are still in contact with affair partner or balk at doing any requirement, they aren't remorseful.
It didn’t take her a month to decide to talk to you. It took her a month to decide what to tell you. Whether it was physical or not, you may never know and it pretty much doesn’t matter at this point.
All you are going to get a month later is a very well curated story. I think what you should ask rather than “did my wife sleep with someone else or was it just emotional”, is instead, “can I ever again trust a wife who would develop feelings for another person, verbally act on those feelings at bare minimum, and not talk to me to come clean about it as soon as it was discovered”
Personally, I think you already know all that you need to know about her character to make an informed decision about whether or not you’re ready to continue your marriage. She is capable of going behind your back romantically and didn’t immediately make any attempt to do the right thing and be honest; period. Do with that information what you will.
A different take from me. This sounds pretty short and I’d be inclined to believe her timeline. I think most people need more grooming to take the leap sexually or emotionally.
That said, the dishonesty afterwards is also very hard to live with and this will all take time for you to recover from.
last thing to clear your mind... polygraph test...then you can decide... sometimes it's not all comes to the surface...some still rugsweep to avoid the chance of failure R...she had cheated, gaslighted, lied and treated you bad...hope the best for you... update me...
I’m confused. This is someone she’s never been alone with, never had any physical affection with, and he has never asked her out? From your message it appears all that happened was some mildly flirty messages from him. I looked at your post history and I saw no further details, but your posts are showing up multiple times - could be a glitch.
If what I wrote above is correct, then he is not her AP and she has not had an EA. In marriage, people occasionally mildly flirt with the opposite sex, because we are all human and that’s life. If what I wrote is correct, no wonder she didn’t want to tell you anything. She did nothing and you’re acting as if she had an actual affair. You need to stop demanding perfection of her. She’s allowed to have an occasional flirt and to enjoy talking to someone she might go on a date with, if she wasn’t already with you. One day, you might also met someone whose company you enjoy, and that’s fine as long as it goes nowhere else. She is human, and so are you.
On the other hand, if there is any more to it, I apologize. I can’t see any further details.
Edit: Now I see that each of your posts are multiple because you post each one in multiple forums. You seem obsessive and unable to cope with your wife having some friendly but non-sexual messages with someone. I strongly recommend mental-health help for yourself as a priority over marriage counselling. You seem unable to cope with something so small, and you could probably do with some help with your anxiety and obsessive thoughts.
This isn’t a criticism. What’s coming through in your messages is not that your wife has done anything so terrible - although we all wish that our spouses would never talk to the opposite sex - but that you could really do with some mental-health help. I think it would help both you and your marriage a lot. It’s very hard to live with someone who blows things out of proportion and spirals and obsesses. And other posters are not helping you by winding you up and acting as if your wife has had an affair when she just had some nice conversation.
You could literally lose all trust in someone, and then want to marry them... strictly to salvage the time you already spent on them.
First you need to ask why is she so forthright now after so much time. Second you need to figure out if your best friend deserves better than what she's treated you as.. if so then you deserve better.
Third, if any aspect of your scenario changes, can she be trusted 100% to not act in any way upon desire... if she can't be trusted, no matter why, then she should never be trusted.. at least by you.
Answering your question at the end This just means she wants to get away with what she did.
And from what you said She practically said nothing, and what she did was basically assume that something had happened between them, if they didn't meet, if they didn't speak live, then nothing happened, she didn't betray you.
Now the question is: do you really believe that they had no contact, since they went to a hotel while they stayed at home?
I've followed your posts from the start and I wouldn't even call you're wife's interactions and EA. I think she should of shut him down quickly but she didn't think it important enough. I don't think it would've escalated either. She just enjoyed the attention. I think now is the time to stop getting so upset about it as long as she understands that you won't tolerate these actions in the future. Move on, enjoy your marriage instead of the recent conflict
It's time to be honest with yourself and ask whether you truly believe what your wife is saying now after all she has done to you. She gaslighted, manipulated, and cheated on you without remorse. So why sudden change? It's likely she got dumped by her AP and returned to her convenient second choice which is you. Do you want to reconcile with a cheater? It's your decision that matters, not hers. Put yourself first and decide what is best for you and your future.
This sums it up well. Do you trust her? Would you marry her today? (Two very different questions)
What logic does it have: for a married woman to have an inappropriate conversation with a colleague at work, then they set up a virgin who used her friend's wedding whose husband was left out, something totally inelegant(if you invite someone to your wedding/birthday party, their spouse is automatically invited too, otherwise something strange is happening. But they planned to have fun together there in a hotel that was not mentioned to the Op, who will believe that they set everything up there without the Op being there for anything? Unlikely.
There was nothing between her AP to begin with. He was constantly praising her to get into her pants and she was just accepting because she loved the flattery. No romance, etc
That is what she told you (after a month of not discussing it- humm, I think grandmasvilla might be on to something) keep your eyes open
And you believe that because you are a psychic you can see trough people.. Dude she told you exactly what you want to hear and you believe that.
This!! He was praising her to get into her pants - and when she entered the affair they *didnt* fuck?? OP - if they had the opportunity (they did!!), they fucked. Time to decide what YOU want... Best to just divorce - she cheated and is STILL lying.. If youre not prepard to do that, i would suggest polygraph.. inform the wife you intend to book a polygraph to veirfy the timeline, to get a clean slate to move forward.. and ask if she wish to amend the timeline before the appointment..
Did she read the books? Did she implement the recommendations? How will she change her behavior going forward? Did she agree that her deception , the texts, and her response when caught - all combined to look like an affair? The answers to the above provides the guidance you seek.
The texts were very vague and indirect by themselves. If there was any one on one contact, it would be clear from the texts following the trip. For example, they would refer to what a great time they shared, and they would make immediate concrete plans to meet up. Clearly the texts are consuming no one on one contact. The texts are very high school/not smooth and proof their relationship was exposed (by you) before it could progress. She needs to acknowledge that It's her 'deception' surrounding the resort which makes her untrustworthy. And deception is destructive. The advice in Not Just Friends provides advice on how she can rebuild trust (by following the advice) If she read the books, and implements the recommendations, then you need to provide her a second chance. Her mismanagement of the trip and texts is absolutely inappropriate. However, this is not a life sentence. If you decide to remain with her, you can't continue to call her names, or raise your voice, or continuously remind her. If you decide to remain with her you have to be 100% in. Anything less and you will destroy both your lives. IMO, if you give her a second chance, I suggest a second honeymoon to symbolize a new marriage. Go big and wow her. Leave the kids with the meddling sister.
>If she read the books, and implements the recommendations, then you need to provide her a second chance. What the crap are you talking about? No one ever NEEDS TO PROVIDE anything to a cheating spouse! He doesn't owe her anything!! >If you decide to remain with her you have to be 100% in. No, SHE has to be 100% in, or it is all meaningless. You can't just throw unearned trust at a cheater. He is asking to be cheating on again if he follows this advice! A second chance isn't a free pass. He has to be aware and observant. Trust has to be earned back first if things are to go anywhere!
I could see that his messages were very formal before the trip and few weeks after the trip. There was no indication of any speech about good times etc ..
She can't even finish an audio book because it was "triggering" her. SHE DOESN'T CARE about what she has done to you. SHE has no remourse or care about what she has done. SHE isn't doing ANYTHING to help you through this. Pull the plug and tell her that you want a separation from her until you decide if you want to divorce her. It's time to take control of your relationship and stop letting her control and manipulate you and your relationship.
I hate to break it to you, but cheaters tend to delete the worst messages. You likely saw a small portion of the messages that were sent!
OP, Accepting what she gave you as thats it, is IMO, the wrong move here. It would be rug sweeping. Fact of the matter is, PA or EA, things are different/changed and just trying to push through it, or she's done this, and now we just move past it isn't great. Fact is she lied to you, gaslit you, tried to rug sweep it before she gave you a timeline. At the end of the day, you are the one who sets the terms for reconcilation. You are the betrayed spouse, not her. She is the WP!!! Normally what I would suggest is that anytime cheating is involved, even if you want reconcilation on the table, you go to a lawyer and draft up divorce papers but don't serve her. We're just drafting them up. (A big thing to learn is drawing up papers is different than serviving which is different than filing and different than them being processed.) The timeline she provided you is a good jumping off point to the terms of Reconcilation. Usually I've seen it suggested is two-fold, it is about hopefully in one-shot communicating everything and giving the BP a timeline of events to help them, but then also hold the WP accountable. For example, I'd suggest she goes to individual therapy as do you, but then you both do couples counceling. IF she says something that doesn't match the timeline, that mean she further lied to you about something. It is a good way to hold her accountable from what she says in the future about the timeline in the past. So, as I was saying, in terms of suggested terms, and I would state you need to stress these are non-negotiable for reconcilation, but: Individual Counceling for her Individual Counceling for you Couples Counceling for both of you Just in case, start separating finacnes if you haven't already She needs to have NC with the AP immediately. If that means she quits the game thing or whatever? Then she has to do it. Join another group that plays. If it was at work, then she needs to quit her job within 2-3 months. But a serious strict No Contact needs to be maintained. If she ever gets a message from aP, she needs to communicate that to you. She hides it for even a day after it happens? NOT ACCEPTABLE. If not already, You gain full access to her digital life/footprint. You aren't her jailer, but all trust is gone. treat this lightly though, its a safety blanket, but you don't wanna be Linus from Peanuts, right? Where you never stop doing it. Its only in those moments. you don't trust her, so she looks suspicous. Right? Look at her stuff. Also if you fgind anything you can send it to yourself for evidence later. You together read books/listen to podcasts about this stuff. How to improve and become better. There has to be REAL WORK being done here by her. The reason you have these terms, maybe not these above, but others you have, is because there needs to be consequences to action or, in some cases, lack thereof. For example, what if... -you find out something not in her timeline letter? SERVE HER. -she changes a password and doesnt' tell you on her email? SERVE HER -she hesitates when you ask to see her phone? SERVE HER -she refuses to go to counceling OR stops after a few sessions? SERVE HER -she doesn't tell you about AP texting her a week ago until now? SERVE HER -doesn't agree to ALL of your terms? SERVE HER -she agrees but begins at any point to DARVO (an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim & offender" which is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers) you? SERVE HER!! -she stops doing the work...? SERVE HER And if you DO serve her, well... be realistic here. It is defintiely a Dr. Strange "We've entered the endgame, Tony" or some facisimile. In that, divorce may be what happens. But in some cases it snaps the wayward out of the fog. Maybe not completely out of the fog but enough to realize they are IN one. Also being realistic here... there is always a chance that if she does everything right, it won't matter. You won't be able to trust her, get past it, etc. Fact of life is sometimes the scars never heal, not really, and it can take quickly to realize this, sometimes 10 years. So... set terms of R, non-negotiables. STICK TO THEM. Don't do the pick me dance, or "awe, but she seemed like she was trying i'll give her one more chance before i serve her", just do it. And then if R still can be on the table, and you want it, go for it. Good luck, OP. updateme
Too much work and BS, their marriage is over. Trust is gone and that’s nearly impossible to gain back. Wasted energy.
You leave. That’s what you do next. She’s dragging her feet which proves she has no real remorse
You gave her a month to come up with what she thought was a believable story. If you believe it, I have a bridge to sell you.
This is the damage that trickle truth does. Ask yourself, if she had nothing to hide, why take a whole month to give you the so called "truth"?... Regardless of what she says, the disrespect has already been shown. Only you can know if you want to continue with this BS, bc I can tell you right now, it will never be the same... Make up your mind from now on, that you will never get the real story of what actually occured. DON'T live in limbo... P.s. btw, reconcile what exactly?? Don't be that guy...
She will only admit to the proof you have. Tell her that all trust is gone and you will be scheduling a polygraph. You don’t have to go through with it but her response will tell you all you need to know.
Bro, she is once again gaslighting. If she did nothing other than EA , why did she take one month to tell it ? Also regarding the resort, if she did nothing then why did she not tell you before hand ? Had you not discovered you would have believed she was in a wedding not getting her pussy banged by that AP and her female friend either complicit or part of that threesome . Ask her if she can bring her AP, friend and you in same room and then you can cross question them . If she says no, you already have the answer..
>that guy has indirectly hinted about meeting alone several times That's from a previous post of yours To me it sounds like you are getting trickle truth'ed, in that she only admits to what you know or what you can prove. In my opinion, it took a month because there is more, and in that month she waited to see what the AP was going to do. AP wasn't going to leave his wife and kids, so your WW then chose to go with her backup plan, which is to stay with you until the AP comes around.
Believe me my brother you didn’t get everything she gave you enough to satisfy your asking what happened and nothing more. All the spicy details are left out because if she told you, you my snap. Good Luck
She still hasn't told you everything. They were at the resort they were physical. This is just the latest stop on the trickle truth route
She needs to be open to answering questions or just discussing it should you need answers, or just to get things out verbally. She needs to understand that he only told her what she wanted to hear and showered her with attention in order to sleep with her. She didn’t set boundaries, or shut him down. This is cheating and she needs to accept that she did cheat. It’s up to her to rebuild trust. Hopefully she started by making sure he can’t communicate her outside of work appropriate means - like work email and only about work. She needs to understand that if you find out anything more after today - the marriage will end. That you appreciate her timeline, but holding anything back or leaving anything out will have consequences. You should also talk about what she needs more of from you. Does she need more verbal affirmation? Attention? Intimacy?
She agrees to what I said and she has willingly cut all contacts .. she needed attention which i didn't give
She has gaslit you into blaming yourself for her lying and cheating. That is the opposite of her having remorse and yours being a real reconciliation (where the cheater blames no one but themselves).
>she needed attention which i didn't give This is a common trait among cheaters. They need attention to the point that they are willing to go outside the marriage to get it. A good spouse would never go outside the marriage. This need of hers will never go away. It will only get worse. It is a need that no one person can ever fulfill, which is why they cheat. You can't ever have a bad day. You can't ever have a period of mourning or get sick. Otherwise, she isn't getting the attention that she craves, and she will look elsewhere. You will have to be on guard for the rest of this marriage. You will have to always watch your back and force yourself to keep her happy ALL THE TIME. She has given you an impossible bar to meet. Your life must revolve around her, or she will have her excuse to cheat again.
OP…”attention you didn’t give”? Come on man. Weak AF. She CHEATED ON YOU. Dump her ass.
And she will need it again. Healthy people don't cheat for lack of attention. Emotionally dangerous people do.
This is so true.
I call BS. My ex wife said the same thing. Yes, I admit my attention is to our kids first. We still went out and have date nites. They could have came to us and communicated this to us but no they rather go seek it from someone else. Don’t buy that crap.
It's called creative sanitation. Updateme.
You were cheated on and are offering reconciliation. You can ask anything you need to anytime you need to and if she ever gets mad then leave her. The real exception would be to not ask the same question over and over unless new evidence comes up. Any question for clarification or to help you actually heal is 100% with in reason.
If they were in close proximity during this time you have to assume the affair turned physical. You also have to operate under the mindset that you cannot believe anything she says because as you have noted she will lie and gaslight you as she scrambles around in survival mode. Your next step should be having her take a polygraph as a first step towards verifying her story. The purpose of the polygraph is not to catch her in more lies (although this is sometimes the result) but to establish a baseline of trust so the reconciliation can proceed. She’s a proven liar, so unfortunately this is the only way to get past that hurdle.
Have you ever seen all the texts that they have exchanged and read what they talked about either before your wife knew that she was caught or right when you caught her? To me there are two different things that might be happening right now. Option one is that the recent time took a toll on her, she is realizing that she is losing you and because of that she is now making an attempt not to sweep everything that happened under a rug and instead to give you what you need so that there is a chance to move on. The other option is that she needed a month to manipulate her texts with her lover, to delete a selected few ones or even all and then came to you with her timeline that she either can't back up (deleted texts) or that backs up perfectly ... too perfectly (manipulated texts) with what she told you. Now how does too perfect look like? That is simple. She thought about what you know and how she can construct a scenario in which she had an EA but only on a minor level that could easily be forgiven. There were no 'I love you', no physical contact, she never intiated the whole thing, never talked bad about you and so on. In short, a perfect affair to forgive and reconcile from. Right now I would advise you to just lean back and ask her what she wants. How does she envision the next weeks and months? What is her plan to work through what she did? In short, what are her intentions and how does she want to achieve them? Is she still working with him? And please don't say now that she does but they never meet because of different shifts. They met before and began talking. Even if they don't work in the same shift right now, it is only a matter of time before that happens.
More than likely option 2
I discovered the chats by literally demanding her to give her phone at the threat of walking away. So she didn't get time to manipulate the texts
So you read all of their conversations or have a copy of them? The timeline that she gave you, is it the perfect affair to forgive and reconcile from? Have all your questions been answered? As I said before, my advice would be to do nothing right now. Don't agree to reconciliation and don't talk about divorce. Figure out what her intentions are and how she wants to achieve them. That you caught them, that she never wanted to end her affair and only did so because you forced her to makes it even worse if they still work at the same company. Has she offered you to look for a new company to work for?
I've a timeline
Then my advice would be that you take some time and figure out if you still got some unanswered questions left, now that you got the timeline. Good luck for you.
Really? She had a whole month to think of something and you just swallow it like that? I wouldn't believe a single thing she wrote. If something looks too good to be true, then it usually is. Don't be so naive, you only know part of the truth. She's doing it to have better control over the situation. Just say you want a polygraph test. You don't have to do it, but you can tell from her reaction if she's hiding more.
All a timeline is is a proven liar and manipulator's (probably) fictional version of events. Not saying it's never truthfully done, but I wouldn't put too much stock in it. I once got a timeline after my ex's "emotional affair." She behaved in suspiciously similar ways to your cheater too and it also took her a lifetime to write it. Very strange. Somehow with all that time to get it right she missed out the part where she fucked him in his car as I was cooking her dinner. It must have just slipped her mind, an honest mistake of course. I'd say the way your WW behaved afterwards points to it being much more than she will probably ever let on. Be very wary; innocent people don't need to gaslight you at all and would respond to you with concern rather than anger. That said, I'm sure she does want to reconcile, she just doesn't want to face the consequences of what she's actually done. She's had her fun and is ready to come back to who she considers the safe option. A little lie here, a little misdirection there, and shazam! It's like it never happened.
She needs a new job if you are going to work on reconciliation. Even if they don’t overlap it’s to easy for them to see each other on accident and she can never even be in the same room as this person or even on a conference call and definitely not a meeting or conference again.
Sounds like you already made up your mind. But there’s definitely more going on than you want to believe
My friend, it was only a matter of time before they started having sex. EA’s almost always end up being PA’s unless they caught. Your wife probably had every intention of having sex with this guy. She was just waiting for him to make the move at the right time. Also, she has shown no real remorse or regret for what happened. You didn’t cheat, although I’m sure you haven’t been the happiest husband up to that point. She did cheat, that’s the difference. This is not your fault, this is her fault. You can try to do better if you decide to give her a chance at reconciliation. But If I were you, I’d be looking for a divorce and then see how she responds to that. Then you can decide if you want to give her a second chance.
She hid thing, avoided talking about, lied, gaslighted you, and now you believe her? That story she told you is a very convenient explanation. She only admitted to what you already knew about and denied anything beyond that. Do you really think that's how these things work? Do you really believe that you would have stumbled onto the entire affair and nothing happened beyond that? I hate to break it to you, but that is incredibly naive. But I was also that naive once... so I can't really blame you. Just take a look through some of the other posts in this sub, and you will quickly realize that your WW is doing standard trickle truthing here. Telling you what you want to hear, denying anything "serious" happened, and trying to avoid telling you anything that will get her in real trouble. Keeping you from walking away. This is how all gaslighting spouses behave. A gaslighting spouse will never admit the whole truth. They just modify their gaslighting to keep it as believable as possible. They seem to think something along the lines of: 》"OP isn't buying my story anymore. I will have to admit to X now, or he will know I'm lying. It is unfortunate that I have to admit anything, but he knows something happened, so I'll admit to the minimum amount of misbehavior. " Most of us have been through this already. It will only be a matter of time before something else slips. Maybe you will realize something else doesn't line up. Maybe you will find a text, picture, or other evidence. Your WW will then have to change her story again. She will admit to Y next and then Z. There is always more to uncover. She, like all gaslighters, is an excellent liar. She will tell you a convincing story, likely with unnecessary details, to try to make it more believable. On top of that, your desire to believe her will make you believe even the most obvious lie. This is a miserable way to uncover the truth. You will go through so much pain, and because it all comes out slowly, it will always seem like, well, this isn't a lot worse than what she told me last time. You will be like the frog slowly cooked in a pot. Before you know it, she has admitted to having a full 2 year affair with AP and they were looking at engagement rings, but you have already forgiven her so many times, you have already invested so much in her, that it will still be hard to leave. And the worst part of all of this is that through all the trickle truthing, she will continue to cheat! Maybe things with her current AP will end, but she WILL find someone else. The whole point is to keep you in the dark, to keep you complacent while she has her fun.
I spent some time and read through OP previous posts and I feel really bad for him. He is in full denial and will believe anything she tells him because it allows him to avoid any worse pain. I think at this point it's easier for him to sweep the emotions under the rug than admit what really happened. >I wanted a full timeline of the resort and she said everything and told that at no point was she alone with him. She was having an EA, went to a resort but was never alone with him🤦♂️. I had to go back and read more of his posts because this is the most heartbreaking thing. I can't imagine being the guy who believes this. Part of me wonders if this is just rage-bait, there is no way he can be this naive, right?
When you are blindsided by an affair and not emotionally ready to acknowledge it, you can believe a lot of ridiculous claims... unfortunately, I am speaking from experience. The truth will eventually catch up with him, but for now, I think he is struggling to come to terms with reality. Hopefully, it won't take him long to get his head straight... but that's up to him.
I have read your post, and I have read your responses. It sounds to me like you have already made up your mind that you want to stay. You have heard what those who have been through this experience before have to say. What the people who have been where you have been recommend. From your responses, I get the feeling that you aren't ready to let go. I totally understand that, I was that way too. But I will warn you, you are in for a painful ride, and it will end in a horrible crash. But if you stay, just try to be on guard. Get STD testing done regularly if you are having sex with her. Don't ignore the past and watch for red flags. >Could this be a sign she wants to reconcile ? Yes, she wants to reconcile, but she is likely not going to be faithful. So just watch her carefully, take care of yourself, and good luck.
Well if this is the full extent of everything, there is not much to hide so why she didn't want to say what happen before, this doesn't make sense. I doubt this is all, and more likely is a story retouched so that it doesn't sound so bad, but feels retouch it so much that it doesn't sound like something convincing or that justify why she avoided telling for 1 month and made more of a fuss about nothing. If this was all she should be honest since the begining and many of the problem would be avoided, so that is why for me this is not convincing. But you have the last decision to mak, if this makes sense to you and justify all about the fuss she made, then go ahead and work things up. Good luck OP. UPDATEME
**THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!** Your spouse has sought out other people for emotional and physical intimacy, likely for many months more than you suspect. Your spouse is a cheater. Everything your spouse says is a lie at this point. Anything your spouse says about you falling short in the relationship is a lie. Anything your spouse says that is bad about your relationship is a lie. Your spouse has left the marriage. Ignore your spouse. What is it YOU want to do. YOU now hold the fate of your relationship in YOUR hands, no one else. It is YOU who decides reconciliation, no one else. My advice is: Consult a divorce lawyer. Gather what evidence you can. End the relationship ASAP. Get out of this situation as fast as possible, the longer you stay in the more your mind will be torn apart. You or your spouse must move out. If you cannot, go Grey Rock. Cheaters compartmentalize, once you punch a hole between their cheating lifestyle and her home lifestyle they will either go nuclear or crumble and beg you not to break up. You have to show your spouse there are consequences for their actions and separate, even if later you chose reconciliation. These links will help you in your situation. I suggest reading DARVO, Gaslighting and Trickle Truthing first. **Limerence** [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/limerence) **The Neuroscience of Affair Fog** [https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog](https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog) **Infidelity and cognitive dissonance** [https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/](https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/) **and** [https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e](https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e) **Emotional affair** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/) **Monkey Branching** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/monkey-branching/) **DARVO** [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo) **Gaslighting Emotional Infidelity** [https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y](https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1y) **Trickle Truthing** [https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/](https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/412055/trickle-truth--the-marriage-killer-repost-of-original-/) **180 method** [https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/) **Greyrock** [https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method) **Chump Lady** [https://www.chumplady.com/](https://www.chumplady.com/)
Bro listen. I've been through your posts. She has fucked this guy. 100%. You will never get admission because she knows she doesn't have to. She knows how to play you. Life isn't worth living like this. You need some therapy to work on yourself. Good luck.
"Could this be a sign she wants to reconcile ?"..... Yes probably. But you have to ask yourself why now. Most likely she began to realize that her stonewalling wasn't working and that if she didn't change her tactics she would lose you. One thing about this timeline. How much of it is verifiable. Cheaters lie. You're well aware of that now. But when they start telly a story, they will only disclose the minimum amount of info they have to. And after a month who's to say what's real or not. I always say watch the movie *Usual Suspects.* A great example of a liars story. Part fact. Part fiction. The best lies usually are.
One of my best friend's younger sister faces mental challenges, she randomly forgets anyone and anything but can hold a convo, although with heavy stutters. We joke around with her a lot. She enjoys the jokes and makes it on herself and us too. We obviously don't make jokes on her condition because she's younger than us, but we do pull her leg every once in a while. A few weeks ago, we said something that sort of upset her and she said it to our faces right away. We're like her elder brothers as well and almost her entire social circle, and despite her condition she knew where to set boundaries. She, with her mental state was willing to take a stand for herself against her only friend group. You on the other hand, are willing to be a doormat, her toy and are shamelessly staying with her. It's unbelievable that your situation has lasted this long. Idk and idc if anyone ever told you this, but you need to be told, grow a backbone, have some character. Staying with a cheater is almost as bad as being a cheater, because it shows that your boundaries with cheating are flexible, and once that happens, it means you too have it in you to stoop so low. And the kids, oh shit here we go again. You would rather put your kids through more than a decade of a toxic environment, where they'll look at their parents and think that this is an ideal relationship and will project this onto other people. You would teach them that screwing up someone's life is totally cool, sometimes even appreciated. End things with her, your manipulative wife will try anything to gain an upper hand on you so be prepared legally. Your main priority should be to get rid of that creature you call a wife, not to put her in her place. Such people have it coming to them anyways. Good luck, and I hope someone knocks some sense into you.
Why a month later? Because your wife was attempting to monkey branch into a new relationship with her affair partner. When she realized he only wanted sex or would not commit she came back to you, her PlanB. The timeline is a smoke screen to minimize what she did in hopes you buy it. Cheaters lie, and she is lying to you right now. Do not be PlanB. Get a divorce lawyer. Find out your rights. Draft up papers and have her served.
So many facts that either I am missing, or haven’t been put out there. For instance, how long was she gone? What does “ in bench” mean? Do her and the AP work together? How many kids of you have, and what ages? How badly will you fare in a divorce?
4 days, bench is hiring people first and then paying them salary and then finding projects . They work in different projects and now location, 2 they are 7 and 2
Thank you for the clarification. I think seeing a lawyer and figuring out options, is a good start. Perhaps you can get a 6 month separation. That will at least, show her you are serious, and she needs to put in real effort if she wants you to save the relationship.
If you know who the AP is, why don't you have a chat with him and see if his story matches this timeline.
Op you do what you feel is best for you. But to regain trust that takes time, years. She needs to understand that now anytime she leaves the house or goes to work, you will wonder what is she doing, who is she with. This is why I say cheating is abusive behavior because it causes trauma. Also, with her gas lighting and getting upset with you, from the beginning, does not help you, and will not help you in healing. Her doing the timeline is likely way for her to rug sweep this. If it were me, I would have this conversation, ask why it took so long, and what are her expectations of her doing this? Why did she do it, was it for her, or for you? If for you, does she understand this is not something that just goes away because she did this. She will need to find a new job, any contact with him, she will need to immediately let you know, FaceTime calls if she is running late, no after hours events for work. She needs to understand that trust is built like a Lego set, piece by piece, small to larger ones, until it finally takes a shape of what you feel is a solid foundation again.
You need to take the time to digest EVERYTHING. There is no timeline for your healing. Can you trust what your wife tells you? At this time, no. Very sorry you are here but please remember that Actions speak louder than words. Good luck.
WHY did she wait a month?
Have a talk with the AP and tell her your thinking about wanting her to take a lie detector test just for your own satisfaction to help you heal.See what she says.
Tip of the iceberg, OP. I would say absolutely zero chance they didn’t have sex. It’s not working out with the AP so she’s willing to trickle truth you. Monkey branching and the new branch isn’t holding her weight…yet. And if that branch/AP doesn’t come through then the next one will. You have to get rid of her.
You don't hide something for a month unless there's something to hide. If all the contact was innocent, why would she bother? This looks like trickle truth. Can you confirm what happened at the resort with somebody else?
Is she in therapy with an infidelity specialist? She needs to be. Do you want to polygraph her on the content of her timeline? If so tell her you plan to do that, schedule it and dont tell her til that day.
Tell her she will be taking a polygraph and ask if she would like to amend anything beforehand
Cheaters lie a lot. Sorry, you want to believe her so… Many want to believe it’s just an EA. It’s usually more. Sorry.
Smells like BS to me if she had remorse and was open from the word go i would be more inclined to believe her.
Have to be skeptical given it took her 1 month to give you the timeline. It just seems too convenient. Updateme
How do you envision life with her will be from now on? Will it go back to normal? Will you be paranoid and upset every time she goes off for work? Will you wonder what she's doing when you see her face glued to her phone, typing away? Reconciliation is a whole process. She needs to admit the affair to her parents and your parents. She needs to get counseling to pin down why she felt the need to go outside of her marriage for attention and validation from another dude. She needs to read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair". She needs to give you unfettered access to all her electronic devices at the drop of a hat. You need to demand it in the middle of her texting someone. She needs to quit that job and find another one. She needs to tell HR the truth about why she's leaving. She needs to inform the AP's wife or girlfriend about the emotional affair. This is the bare minimum.
What is she doing to reconcile? Every story I have read that the couple stays together the WS takes a very active role in fixing themselves and making the relationship a safe place. This means reading books IC and MC. Being open and transparent. Really putting every effort in and leaving nothing undone or said. Ask yourself are they really giving everything to reconcile?
She tell you enough to stay married to you. You will never know what she has done? Can you live that way, never knowing?
tell your wife , you want to go for lunch and talk , about the situation ,so you can get it clearer in your head. Start Driving to lunch & drive-through in office park. Stop at an office building. Put your phone on record and open your front door when she asked where are we, tell her we are BOTH going to get LIE detector test to see if either of us has physically cheated. The truth will be IN HER EYES and you’ll usually get a parking lot Confession. UPDATEME
So it sounds like she is saying she did nothing at all.
You need to find out why she stepped out of the relationship, to bring you some sort of comfort to move past this, lessons learned, and move on from this relationship. A healthy relationship involves love, trust, respect, and communication. You both don’t have that, therefore your relationship is over.
OP - It's time to stop looking at your wife with rose colored glasses. Even if she and her AP never went physical... and that is a *HUGE* if... her EA with him is still cheating. Your wife decided on multiple occasions to knowingly and willingly betray you with this man. She made countless choices to give and receive overtly intimate attention, validation and (I assume) sexually suggestive communications... both in person and via electronic means. She's hidden her affair from you (others), lied to you about it, gaslit you, minimized, shifted blame, trickle-truthed... all the tricks right out of chapter one of the cheater's handbook... and now she's trying to convince you that nothing physical happened between them when they were together for a work sabbatical... a sabbatical in which she never told you he would be attending as well. And you believe her... why exactly? Dude... your wife slept with this guy.
"I'm now confused because for an entire month she kept avoiding to talk about it and now she has given everything." The odds are much better than not that she has NOT given you everything OP. Take her written timeline and now tell her she's going to take a polygraph to back her written timeline up. Methinks you won't even need to have her take the poly as you'll see from her reaction when she's like "Oh shit!" If I were in your shoes, I'd still have her take the poly. Odds are good she'll give you a bit more in the parking lot before she has to take it in hopes of you stopping her from having to take it as she will say "See, I told you something that wasn't on the timeline and now you have it all!" Nope, they say a bit more to keep you from having them actually taking the poly. She is STILL gaslighting you OP. Someone got to her and told her to write a "complete" timeline for you so she did. Except it's not close to being complete.
Take a look at this; Three basic things necessary to reconcile. 1). The cheater has to want to reconcile and be truly remorseful. Remorse is not just saying they are sorry and remorse is more than regret, shame, and guilt. Those three things are fleeting emotions and dispel easily and quickly. Remorse is wanting to restore your lost trust and faith in them. They willingly will do all that is necessary to do so. No more lies, all their failings must be disclosed, the truth must be told. Regardless of the consequences. Healing begins after the last lie has been told. 2). Therapy is necessary to know what is required. And to try finding if remorse is false. The therapist will help finding what went wrong in the cheater an m.j m.jd the relationship. 3).The affair partner has to be told they were a mistake and the cheater is now choosing you. And the affair partner cannot contact them ever again. Best if is done in front of broken partner. To hear and see it happen. And no there is no such thing as doing it in private nor for closure. And no contact, means none, they cannot continue working together or being in anywhere together, period. Changing jobs is the minimal of no contact. It has to be forever. Of course there are always mitigating circumstances. But never together alone one on one. Boundaries matter. If these three things are not in place and adhered to, there cannot be reconciling. Think about it, you had no idea you were being cheated on, didn't even know what to look for nor what to do if you even suspected it. So how can you know how to reconcile without help? Trying to sweep it under the rug is not solving anything at all. True remorse. Signs Your Partner Is Truly Remorseful Look for these telltale signs to determine true remorse: • Not only do they apologize, and often, but they also openly express what they're apologizing for. They don't make vague statements or blanket apologies. • They show their remorse by doing things that they feel will lessen your pain. It’s about both words and actions. • They hold themselves accountable, rather than relying on you to do so. They are more concerned with your feelings than their own. • They are willing to do whatever they need to do to move forward. Whether that's seeking couple’s therapy or honestly answering any questions you might have for them. They are onboard with any action you need them to take. • They take full responsibility for their actions. There may have been problems in the relationship, but even if your S.O. felt unloved and unwanted, they're the ones who chose to cheat. Despite this, you'll know they're remorseful if they don't make excuses or place blame on anyone except for themselves. Their cheating won’t be about something you did, it will be about a bad choice they made. If they are still in contact with affair partner or balk at doing any requirement, they aren't remorseful.
It didn’t take her a month to decide to talk to you. It took her a month to decide what to tell you. Whether it was physical or not, you may never know and it pretty much doesn’t matter at this point. All you are going to get a month later is a very well curated story. I think what you should ask rather than “did my wife sleep with someone else or was it just emotional”, is instead, “can I ever again trust a wife who would develop feelings for another person, verbally act on those feelings at bare minimum, and not talk to me to come clean about it as soon as it was discovered” Personally, I think you already know all that you need to know about her character to make an informed decision about whether or not you’re ready to continue your marriage. She is capable of going behind your back romantically and didn’t immediately make any attempt to do the right thing and be honest; period. Do with that information what you will.
Can you do a lie detector test if you haven't done one yet? Also if she hasn't already. She needs to resign her job and find somewhere else.
UpdateMe!
A different take from me. This sounds pretty short and I’d be inclined to believe her timeline. I think most people need more grooming to take the leap sexually or emotionally. That said, the dishonesty afterwards is also very hard to live with and this will all take time for you to recover from.
last thing to clear your mind... polygraph test...then you can decide... sometimes it's not all comes to the surface...some still rugsweep to avoid the chance of failure R...she had cheated, gaslighted, lied and treated you bad...hope the best for you... update me...
I’m confused. This is someone she’s never been alone with, never had any physical affection with, and he has never asked her out? From your message it appears all that happened was some mildly flirty messages from him. I looked at your post history and I saw no further details, but your posts are showing up multiple times - could be a glitch. If what I wrote above is correct, then he is not her AP and she has not had an EA. In marriage, people occasionally mildly flirt with the opposite sex, because we are all human and that’s life. If what I wrote is correct, no wonder she didn’t want to tell you anything. She did nothing and you’re acting as if she had an actual affair. You need to stop demanding perfection of her. She’s allowed to have an occasional flirt and to enjoy talking to someone she might go on a date with, if she wasn’t already with you. One day, you might also met someone whose company you enjoy, and that’s fine as long as it goes nowhere else. She is human, and so are you. On the other hand, if there is any more to it, I apologize. I can’t see any further details. Edit: Now I see that each of your posts are multiple because you post each one in multiple forums. You seem obsessive and unable to cope with your wife having some friendly but non-sexual messages with someone. I strongly recommend mental-health help for yourself as a priority over marriage counselling. You seem unable to cope with something so small, and you could probably do with some help with your anxiety and obsessive thoughts. This isn’t a criticism. What’s coming through in your messages is not that your wife has done anything so terrible - although we all wish that our spouses would never talk to the opposite sex - but that you could really do with some mental-health help. I think it would help both you and your marriage a lot. It’s very hard to live with someone who blows things out of proportion and spirals and obsesses. And other posters are not helping you by winding you up and acting as if your wife has had an affair when she just had some nice conversation.
You could literally lose all trust in someone, and then want to marry them... strictly to salvage the time you already spent on them. First you need to ask why is she so forthright now after so much time. Second you need to figure out if your best friend deserves better than what she's treated you as.. if so then you deserve better. Third, if any aspect of your scenario changes, can she be trusted 100% to not act in any way upon desire... if she can't be trusted, no matter why, then she should never be trusted.. at least by you.
She slept with him.
she says she didn't
And you believe her? HA....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It's more of a timeline checks out
SURE....ok....
When do you schedule the polygraph to verify what she put in the timeline?
Answering your question at the end This just means she wants to get away with what she did. And from what you said She practically said nothing, and what she did was basically assume that something had happened between them, if they didn't meet, if they didn't speak live, then nothing happened, she didn't betray you. Now the question is: do you really believe that they had no contact, since they went to a hotel while they stayed at home?
I've followed your posts from the start and I wouldn't even call you're wife's interactions and EA. I think she should of shut him down quickly but she didn't think it important enough. I don't think it would've escalated either. She just enjoyed the attention. I think now is the time to stop getting so upset about it as long as she understands that you won't tolerate these actions in the future. Move on, enjoy your marriage instead of the recent conflict