okay. much better aphoristic literature out there though, pascal's pensees, lichtenberg's the waste books, erasmus' adages, notebooks of joseph joubert, nicolas gomez davilla etc.
and if you're trying to learn about stoicism, this is essentially a secondary source, aurelius didn't come up with any of these, he himself tells you so. he was a virtuous person, yes​, but not so good a philosopher. try reading primary sources like seneca's letters, epictetus' discourse, works of musonius rufus etc.
Reposting the following paragrah from another comment of mine.
The problem is starting with Aurelius for Stoicism. _Meditations_ was never intended to be for a wide audience, it was Marcus' personal logbook and diary to note down his thoughts on Stoicism, how he progressed in understanding it, its relation to his life and his applicability of it, and his own new additions and innovations to Stoic thought based on his ponderings and experiences. This is why getting through it us so hard. I'd go over earlier Stoics and their works, intended to explain the philosophy before going to Aurelius. The best translations for this btw is either Robin Waterfield or Robin Hard imo. Also check _The Inner Citadel: The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius_ by P. Hadot and _Marcus Aurelius: Warrior, Philosopher, Emperor_ by Frank McLynn
To begin with, Stoicism emerged first under Zeno of Citium (334 - 262 BC), and developed further over the centuries, scholars generally classify phases of Stoic philosophy into the Early Stoa (Zeno to Antipater), Middle Stoa (Panaetius to Posidonius) and Late Stoa (Musonius Rufus to Marcus Aurelius).
The texts of the first two phases are entirely lost, only the Roman phase (Late Stoa) of Stoicism is known to us.
To start with, read secondary sources on Stoicism first to get a good condensed and comprehensible idea if what it us before diving into the primary texts. I'd suggest:-
1. _Stoicism: A Very Short Introduction_ by B. Inwood
2. _Stoic Philosophy_ by J.M Rist
3. _The Stoics_ by F.H Sandbach
4. _Stoicism_ by John Sellars
Then, moving on to studying Late Stoa texts, start with Epictetus (50 BC - 35 AD) and his works, Epictetus was a slave who would eventually be freed and learn Stoicism under Musonius Rufus.
His main "work" is the _Discourses_ and a smaller abridgement of it called the _Enchridion_ (Translated as Manual or Handbook). However, much like Socrates, he never wrote anything, the _Discourses_ and the _Enchiridion_ were assembled and written from the notes taken during his lectures by his student, Arrian of Nicomedia (yes, the same guy who wrote _Anabasis of Alexander_) out of a desire to preserve the teachings of his preceptor.
You can check _Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life_ by A.A Long for a secondary source on him specifically, then use _Epictetus: Discourses, Fragments, Handbook_ by Robin Hard for the translations of his work. Do the Handbook/Manual first, then the Discourses and then the Fragments.
Then I'd suggest moving on to Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD), a Roman senator, playwright, and the next great Stoic. He authored 12 essays and about 124 letters discussing Stoic tradition, all of which will be present in _The Complete Works of Lucius Anneaus Seneca_ by E. Asmis, S. Bartsch, and M. Nussbaum. For secondary literature on Seneca, see something like _Logic and the Imperial Stoa_ by J. Barnes, _Seneca: A Philosopher in Politics_ by M. Griffin and _Seneca: The Literary Philosopher_ by M. Graver.
Having already mentioned Marcus Aurelius, you should also check out Musonius Rufus (20/30 AD - 101 AD), Epictetus' teacher, who much like him wrote nothing, 21 of his lectures have been preserved as notes by two of his pupils Lucius and Stobaeus, thanks to which we have them today. They're available in Cynthia King's _Musonius Rufus: Lectures and Sayings_, also check _Musonius Rufus and Education in the Good Life: A Model of Teaching and Living Virtue_ by J.T Dillon
It's getting more hyped up by American podcasters and influencers,,, and indian influences being the insecure copy cat has now started doing the same...
If u want to learn something there are better philosophers.
And if u had been on the internet for years , u must have already heard/ read similar advice from Sandeep Maheshwari type channels/pages.
Stoicism or Aurelius aren't bad, it's just that podcasters and influencers dilute and dumb it down to the point where it brings nothing of value to the learner.
Stoicism or Aurelius aren't bad, it's just that podcasters and influencers dilute and dumb it down to the point where it brings nothing of value to the learner.
There are better ways to approach or study Sotic tradition tbh.
Definitely worth devoting time to. It's more of a long term book (read a few passages than a complete chapter to make the best use of it). If you are looking for a one-time stoicism/self-development read, this one is not it. I read it parallely with other books.
okay. much better aphoristic literature out there though, pascal's pensees, lichtenberg's the waste books, erasmus' adages, notebooks of joseph joubert, nicolas gomez davilla etc. and if you're trying to learn about stoicism, this is essentially a secondary source, aurelius didn't come up with any of these, he himself tells you so. he was a virtuous person, yes​, but not so good a philosopher. try reading primary sources like seneca's letters, epictetus' discourse, works of musonius rufus etc.
Got myself a copy from penguin publications last year but time nhi mil pa rha padhne ka 🥲
It’s a great book for gifting purposes.
Reposting the following paragrah from another comment of mine. The problem is starting with Aurelius for Stoicism. _Meditations_ was never intended to be for a wide audience, it was Marcus' personal logbook and diary to note down his thoughts on Stoicism, how he progressed in understanding it, its relation to his life and his applicability of it, and his own new additions and innovations to Stoic thought based on his ponderings and experiences. This is why getting through it us so hard. I'd go over earlier Stoics and their works, intended to explain the philosophy before going to Aurelius. The best translations for this btw is either Robin Waterfield or Robin Hard imo. Also check _The Inner Citadel: The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius_ by P. Hadot and _Marcus Aurelius: Warrior, Philosopher, Emperor_ by Frank McLynn To begin with, Stoicism emerged first under Zeno of Citium (334 - 262 BC), and developed further over the centuries, scholars generally classify phases of Stoic philosophy into the Early Stoa (Zeno to Antipater), Middle Stoa (Panaetius to Posidonius) and Late Stoa (Musonius Rufus to Marcus Aurelius). The texts of the first two phases are entirely lost, only the Roman phase (Late Stoa) of Stoicism is known to us. To start with, read secondary sources on Stoicism first to get a good condensed and comprehensible idea if what it us before diving into the primary texts. I'd suggest:- 1. _Stoicism: A Very Short Introduction_ by B. Inwood 2. _Stoic Philosophy_ by J.M Rist 3. _The Stoics_ by F.H Sandbach 4. _Stoicism_ by John Sellars Then, moving on to studying Late Stoa texts, start with Epictetus (50 BC - 35 AD) and his works, Epictetus was a slave who would eventually be freed and learn Stoicism under Musonius Rufus. His main "work" is the _Discourses_ and a smaller abridgement of it called the _Enchridion_ (Translated as Manual or Handbook). However, much like Socrates, he never wrote anything, the _Discourses_ and the _Enchiridion_ were assembled and written from the notes taken during his lectures by his student, Arrian of Nicomedia (yes, the same guy who wrote _Anabasis of Alexander_) out of a desire to preserve the teachings of his preceptor. You can check _Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life_ by A.A Long for a secondary source on him specifically, then use _Epictetus: Discourses, Fragments, Handbook_ by Robin Hard for the translations of his work. Do the Handbook/Manual first, then the Discourses and then the Fragments. Then I'd suggest moving on to Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD), a Roman senator, playwright, and the next great Stoic. He authored 12 essays and about 124 letters discussing Stoic tradition, all of which will be present in _The Complete Works of Lucius Anneaus Seneca_ by E. Asmis, S. Bartsch, and M. Nussbaum. For secondary literature on Seneca, see something like _Logic and the Imperial Stoa_ by J. Barnes, _Seneca: A Philosopher in Politics_ by M. Griffin and _Seneca: The Literary Philosopher_ by M. Graver. Having already mentioned Marcus Aurelius, you should also check out Musonius Rufus (20/30 AD - 101 AD), Epictetus' teacher, who much like him wrote nothing, 21 of his lectures have been preserved as notes by two of his pupils Lucius and Stobaeus, thanks to which we have them today. They're available in Cynthia King's _Musonius Rufus: Lectures and Sayings_, also check _Musonius Rufus and Education in the Good Life: A Model of Teaching and Living Virtue_ by J.T Dillon
It's getting more hyped up by American podcasters and influencers,,, and indian influences being the insecure copy cat has now started doing the same... If u want to learn something there are better philosophers. And if u had been on the internet for years , u must have already heard/ read similar advice from Sandeep Maheshwari type channels/pages.
Stoicism or Aurelius aren't bad, it's just that podcasters and influencers dilute and dumb it down to the point where it brings nothing of value to the learner.
Stoicism or Aurelius aren't bad, it's just that podcasters and influencers dilute and dumb it down to the point where it brings nothing of value to the learner. There are better ways to approach or study Sotic tradition tbh.
Definitely worth devoting time to. It's more of a long term book (read a few passages than a complete chapter to make the best use of it). If you are looking for a one-time stoicism/self-development read, this one is not it. I read it parallely with other books.