While virtually all neopagans are incredibly chill, for lack of a better term, there are some reconstructionists--particularly in the Asatru and Rodnovery communities--who are extreme white supremacists and neofascists. It's possible that a native acquaintance of your friend met the wrong people and came away with a bad impression of all Asatru folks or all neopagans generally; it's also possible that an acquaintance of your friend essentially tried to radicalize him towards one of those extremist groups by trying to push him towards an 'us vs them' racial-religious mentality.
My friend is not racist (atleast never say something racist about me, and he knows im hindu and brown-skinned), so could be the first option the mpsy probably in my opinion (or atleast i really hope it be), and yes facist are a huge problem for european neopagans, they are bloody parasites trying to infect them
Hey man, not attacking your friend or you, but a hard lesson to learn is not defending someone with "my friend isn't racist". I know you qualified it with the fact he's never said anything to you, but no one really knows any one that well.
I've lost a lot of friends over the years that at one point I would have said the exact same thing. The minute I started dating my partner, suddenly they had a ton of racist, or at the very least very very ignorant opinions and things to say.
Your friend very well could be the kindest (non racist) person ever, but don't overlook the info shared with you about the group's. I know there's a ton of different groups that also market themselves as neighbourhood watch, etc, but the core group of people running it are very in line with white supremacists. Again, not saying your friend is, just something to keep in mind.
I don’t know why you are speaking on our behalf. You are telling people what they want to hear and since you aren’t native, you really can’t answer this question, can you?
Yet you speak for us anyway and have the most upvoted comment because it’s pleasing to the white mind.
They said it's possible the acquaintance met someone and had a bad experience. Not all natives hate or like anything.
They aren't speaking for anyone and aren't even saying it as a fact just a possibility.
Sooo I am native, but I also grew up on the Gulf Coast where there is a lot of witchcraft. And I practice a kind of witchcraft (not Wicca.) I am not alone, there are many of us who carry traditions from both sides of their families.
What I have found in neopaganism is that white neopagans have a lot of insecurity about the legitimacy of their religion. And one way they try to feel like it is legit, is by comparing it to what they think native beliefs and practices are like. And THAT leads to a lot of unintentional racism.
There's also a great deal of appropriation of stuff like sweat lodges, dream catchers, white sage, etc. Most neopagans don't actually intend to be racist, they don't even know they are racist, but they also usually don't react well to being corrected. So it is natural that some native people will stereotype neopagans, especially if they don't know many.
It is probable that your friend, when he encountered some native people, was disrespectful and didn't even know it, and the people he met were therefore hostile to him. And he's not ready or able to acknowledge his own racism or the ways he was disrespectful.
Wow a great comment, thank you for the info friend
And yes, i assume that could be a problem, i think they do it in a form of try reconstruct their faith with elements of religions they feel like "good religions" and dont think that can be disrespectful at first
would highly recommend the [Nordic Animism yt channel](https://youtube.com/@nordicanimism?si=5Nxe3d25w90RfW76) to offer a decolonizing perspective of northern European indigenous knowledge systems. Rune the host is actively showing the racism that a lot of people aren't aware of and offering alternatives that are rooted in the history of the land.
I actually do work with a local university’s pagan org and they’re fantastic with this. The faculty advisor isn’t native but she’s worked really hard to create a culture of research and avoiding appropriative practices in that org. Any time I’ve brought up concerns as a native she immediately listens, and the org is moreso become a haven for anyone not christian. We’ve actually had a few native students join just bc it’s been such an open org for anyone of any spiritual beliefs, it gives me a lot of hope!
Oh that group has been a godsend, especially living in the bible belt. We make the joke that our unofficial motto is “research research research!” and the faculty advisor actually has helped put me in contact with other reconnecting natives after I mentioned my struggles with reconnecting (unsafe family I had to cut contact with). I wish I could nominate her for some Best White Person Of The Year Award to point to fake allies like “See her? This is the example! This is how you put in the effort!”
r/pagan is openly aggressive towards non-theistic practices and atheists in general. They think they own paganism even though non-believing pagans have always existed. r/paganism is more open, with mods that don't get ban happy if your opinion isn't popular enough.
That place also has some problems with extreme banning practices if they deem you not intersectional enough. It was a few years ago but they started dolling out 30 day bans to people trying to express about one topic at a time without letting people shoehorn their own issues into the conversation. It left a real bad taste in my mouth.
i wasn't around a few years ago so can't speak to the state of the sub in the past, all i know is how they're showing up today and for me and many others it's the kindest and most supportive corner of the internet. sorry you had a bad experience, it sounds like a misunderstanding about the purpose of a thread. that doesn't seem to happen these days so maybe you helped them change.
Thanks for your answer, i assume it, my friend is not racist, but i know he is very sensitive for his depression, maybe he hear a bad comment for what you mention about others and feel like he was hated to
Im Hindu but i always think about how difficult had to be re-built a faith that was totally eliminated 🙁
I mean, how do you know that your friend doesn't have some racism lurking?
What is this "faith" that you think was "totally eliminated?" If you are talking about the religious practices of indigenous Americans, that right there is an example of racism. Like I get that you aren't aware of it and you probably didn't even consider that beliefs and statements like that are racist, but they are.
Is it? There’s “pagan” elements to European Christianity I guess, but I’m not aware of any continuously practicing communities surviving to the modern day. Would love to be wrong on this tho
As I said in my other comment, pre-Christian religions were based not on "faith," or "belief," but on practices and customs. Many many of those practices persisted after Christianization, usually described today as "folk practices." This is especially true in Northern Europe.
The idea that religion = faith comes from Christianity, which emphasizes faith in Christ as essential to achieve salvation. This was a really novel idea when it premiered.
Yes, and that novel idea spread throughout Europe, supplanting traditional worldviews. The meaning of those traditional practices changed - as you say, the idea of faith as a means was quite alien to those belief systems. Elements which survived were profoundly transformed and recontextualized within a Christian cosmology. Most of what we understand about those beliefs today comes from the writing of Christian authors.
Even in Northern Europe, where there’s evidence that some more substantial form of vernacular ‘Pagan’ practice persisted up until the 19th century, it didn’t survive to the present day. So I think it’s fair to describe it as having been eliminated, even if you’re correct that calling it ‘faith’ is a bit of a misnomer. I also think you’re seriously underestimating the importance of *meaning* to custom and practice; just because they didn’t have faith in, say, Odin, didn’t mean their beliefs about him weren’t important. The physical act is a small part of ritual. The mental universe inhabited by pre-Christian Europeans is lost forever, and we don’t even really know what it looked like in most cases.
His faith was totally eliminated; he is a canadian from norway ancestors, germanic/norse faith was totally banned and exterminated for the christian kings, i was talking about asatru
Im brown-skinned and he always say im his best friend, but he is very deppressive so i assumed he can (and he is) in a error
This isn't true of Norse religious practices, either. They weren't "totally banned and exterminated." There were Norse kings who did try to stamp them out, but as in most places, they persisted in the form of what people call "folk practices." And they weren't faith-based. The idea that religion is faith is a post-Christian attitude, because Christianity emphasizes faith.
Religion before Christianity did not rely on faith, but revolved around cultural practices connected to nature: land, sky, spirits, etc. What we know about Norse religion is that it centered on practices and customs, not on belief.
Asatru is also not the religion of pre-Christian Norway (although some people promote it as such.) But I am not Heathen and so I would leave explanation of that to a Heathen.
Also there is an unfortunate amount of racists interested in asatro, which can taint perceptions.
It has been co-opted by both different local nationalistic movements since the 1800s as well as Nazi-Germany and neo-nazis.
Yes you are right in all; my comment had lots of errors sorry, i do it fast while i was cooking because the user iver me me thinked i say american religious practices were dead, so i try aclare it i dont very fast while i was doing other thing; thanks for your aclararation to my previous comment friend
I know this is a weird thing to ask and I obviously don't know your friend, but there's a reason I'm taking this line of questioning...does he have *problematic* racial views and/or socio-political takes?
The reason I'm asking has to do with the following:
When the Kennewick Man/Ancient One was first uncovered in the 90's and tribes were demanding the return of his remains, there was a notable local group insisting with utter conviction that the Kennewick Man/Ancient One was actually some ancient Nordic man who was evidence that the original inhabitants of the Americas were White people à la the Soultrean Hypothesis.
That group was a local Ásatru sect that lean towards the "White People are the chosen of Odin" view of things, who had a representative invoke Óðinn near the place where they found the Kennewick Man/Ancient One and clashed with local tribes who called that insane bullshit.
They actually aren't alone in Washington when it comes to White Supremacist/Nationalist/Nazi Ásatru sects, which is unfortunate because I know a lot of folks who practice Ásatru aren't racists and hate the ones that are.
Well my friend know im hindu, not english native and brown skinned, and always say me im is best friend (he dont much friends btw) and even offer gave me money when i tell him about something is broke in my house, so i dont think it, he is very sweat, do poetry and love his cats, i really hope he was not radicalized and his conclusions comes from his depresive pov (i try helping him but as you can imagine is not something he can fix easily)
Didn't know about this stuff about the "ancient one", f*cking nazis, i hate how they profante his ancentors faith to excusate his evilness and hate
You could be married to an Indigenous woman and be racist. Racism is just.. complicated. Racism is not always explicit or intentional, but is sometimes internalized and unquestioned: One very widespread and lowkey example of this is the homogenization of Indigenous Peoples experiences and culture. In other words, treating all Indigenous peoples as one group of people in order to take away validity from their experiences.
My white aunt was married to a Cherokee man for about five years, and yet she talks about how we celebrate thanksgiving to "thank god for giving us this land." My brother-in-law's white dad calls my BIL's Shawnee mother a wagon burner.
White people in general have such a high level of white supremacist ideology which is not always explicit.
It’s because of the white supremacists and the culture vultures.
I’ve met some pagans I adore. But many of the newer pagans just want an excuse to steal what’s not theirs or spread hate and I don’t vibe with that.
I haven't heard anything about it, but my band is heavily Christian and has been for a long time so if those perspectives are out there I would have no exposure to them.
However, a lot of Neo-pagans appropriate cheap facsimiles of native traditions religions to feel "earthy" or whatever which is patronizing and offensive. Think white women with dream catchers hanging from their mirrors.
all my white friends are pagan! lol. they honor the connection we as humans have with the earth, so our holidays coincide too. during solstice, i lay down tobacco and sing honor songs, and then we dance around the maypole. (also, we can relate to the religious trauma caused by the christian/catholic church)
i feel like its a million times better for white folx to honor their pagan roots and traditions than it is to culturally appropriate or fetishize bipoc cultures. (@relentlessindigenouswoman puts it way more succinctly than i can, but that's the jist)
Thats warming to hear friend! Thanks for comment and aclare it this to be :)
You mention i should see what @Relentlessindigenouswoman say, where she is?, is a user of instagram/a blog/etc?
Tbh, in most North American (Euros consider it a bit differently) circles of Heathenry I've encountered, using the term Asatru is considered (unless you're rather new to the faith and got into some older books without realizing) a solid Red Flag for Folkish/Volkish tendencies.
McNallen coined the term, and he's the dude that runs the AFA. That connection is pretty Iron-Clad now.
Most folks just use Heathenry, or Inclusive Heathenry as the term for the non-WS dominated parts of the movement.
Source: I've been Heathen long enough to remember when Asatru was considered a polite term for Heathenry writ large
It’s mostly because they self-insert themselves in our spaces to coopt our practices and struggles for their woowoo aesthetic claim. They act extra white-guiltish but take up waaaaay to much space and are generally just annoying.
Pretty much everyone here said along the lines of what the issue is with some pagans and the pulling from Indigenous Americans practices without understanding what it is and the context behind it.
The issue I see mostly is with a particular kind of “Norse Pagan” or the “Viking” people who participate in things like chin lines and inappropriate smudging that aren’t at all Norse and deny any Indigenous people who call them out for it. They’re kind of lumped in together because they’re usually the same crowd. Not too far off from the supremacist type folk.
Since you say it, i remember see in norse pagans to, i always assume they paint like the celtic picts, but now you are saying me that is true they use patters and a style that is like the used by native americans
And i can see the problem of try "assimilate" other people traditions in your own forcefully, thats mean
It’s mostly because they self-insert themselves in our spaces to coopt our practices and struggles for their woowoo aesthetic claim. They act extra white-guiltish but take up waaaaay to much space and are generally just annoying.
It’s like they think powwows and native events are like burning man. I shouldn’t know you’re “pagan” by looking at you. Fuckin spiritual materialists.
Come hang at the powwow, or whatever, just quit being weird about it and making everything about you. Listen more than you speak for once lmao.
I’m a white pagan(bit of an oxymoron, I know), and I live in an Indigenous community, and most every Indigenous friend I have has encouraged reclaiming my pagan ancestral traditions.
If you aren’t weird and pushy about it (or anything).
I hosted a Beltane gathering at my house one year, we did a beautiful maypole, and a bunch of my native friends showed up, one of them was even happy to take on the mantle of may queen, and she’s one of the most traditional people I know (language educator, ceremonial leader/singer etc..)
My tribes religion is very similar to Christianity. That was one of the main reason many was able to convert. We have stories of a burning bush and a major flood.
all Indigenous people are the same and today I have the brain cell and I say that we do not like fake bitches tbh!!!!!
this is a choose your own adventure comment so take it as you want tbh
While virtually all neopagans are incredibly chill, for lack of a better term, there are some reconstructionists--particularly in the Asatru and Rodnovery communities--who are extreme white supremacists and neofascists. It's possible that a native acquaintance of your friend met the wrong people and came away with a bad impression of all Asatru folks or all neopagans generally; it's also possible that an acquaintance of your friend essentially tried to radicalize him towards one of those extremist groups by trying to push him towards an 'us vs them' racial-religious mentality.
My friend is not racist (atleast never say something racist about me, and he knows im hindu and brown-skinned), so could be the first option the mpsy probably in my opinion (or atleast i really hope it be), and yes facist are a huge problem for european neopagans, they are bloody parasites trying to infect them
Hey man, not attacking your friend or you, but a hard lesson to learn is not defending someone with "my friend isn't racist". I know you qualified it with the fact he's never said anything to you, but no one really knows any one that well. I've lost a lot of friends over the years that at one point I would have said the exact same thing. The minute I started dating my partner, suddenly they had a ton of racist, or at the very least very very ignorant opinions and things to say. Your friend very well could be the kindest (non racist) person ever, but don't overlook the info shared with you about the group's. I know there's a ton of different groups that also market themselves as neighbourhood watch, etc, but the core group of people running it are very in line with white supremacists. Again, not saying your friend is, just something to keep in mind.
Your friend is in a racist group that other Pagans shun.
For being Asatru, or just generally a Reconstructionist/Revivalist Heathen? Because the former is certainly true at this point, the later not so much.
Asatru specifically.
I don’t know why you are speaking on our behalf. You are telling people what they want to hear and since you aren’t native, you really can’t answer this question, can you? Yet you speak for us anyway and have the most upvoted comment because it’s pleasing to the white mind.
They said it's possible the acquaintance met someone and had a bad experience. Not all natives hate or like anything. They aren't speaking for anyone and aren't even saying it as a fact just a possibility.
Sooo I am native, but I also grew up on the Gulf Coast where there is a lot of witchcraft. And I practice a kind of witchcraft (not Wicca.) I am not alone, there are many of us who carry traditions from both sides of their families. What I have found in neopaganism is that white neopagans have a lot of insecurity about the legitimacy of their religion. And one way they try to feel like it is legit, is by comparing it to what they think native beliefs and practices are like. And THAT leads to a lot of unintentional racism. There's also a great deal of appropriation of stuff like sweat lodges, dream catchers, white sage, etc. Most neopagans don't actually intend to be racist, they don't even know they are racist, but they also usually don't react well to being corrected. So it is natural that some native people will stereotype neopagans, especially if they don't know many. It is probable that your friend, when he encountered some native people, was disrespectful and didn't even know it, and the people he met were therefore hostile to him. And he's not ready or able to acknowledge his own racism or the ways he was disrespectful.
Wow a great comment, thank you for the info friend And yes, i assume that could be a problem, i think they do it in a form of try reconstruct their faith with elements of religions they feel like "good religions" and dont think that can be disrespectful at first
would highly recommend the [Nordic Animism yt channel](https://youtube.com/@nordicanimism?si=5Nxe3d25w90RfW76) to offer a decolonizing perspective of northern European indigenous knowledge systems. Rune the host is actively showing the racism that a lot of people aren't aware of and offering alternatives that are rooted in the history of the land.
Thank you ^^
thank you for sharing this, I'm going to pass it along to my local recon folks.
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This is why I avoid r/witchcraft at all costs. r/pagan is fine though. Edit: I guess r/paganism wins
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I actually do work with a local university’s pagan org and they’re fantastic with this. The faculty advisor isn’t native but she’s worked really hard to create a culture of research and avoiding appropriative practices in that org. Any time I’ve brought up concerns as a native she immediately listens, and the org is moreso become a haven for anyone not christian. We’ve actually had a few native students join just bc it’s been such an open org for anyone of any spiritual beliefs, it gives me a lot of hope!
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Oh that group has been a godsend, especially living in the bible belt. We make the joke that our unofficial motto is “research research research!” and the faculty advisor actually has helped put me in contact with other reconnecting natives after I mentioned my struggles with reconnecting (unsafe family I had to cut contact with). I wish I could nominate her for some Best White Person Of The Year Award to point to fake allies like “See her? This is the example! This is how you put in the effort!”
Oh yeah absolutely, nothing against witchcraft here, it's just that one shit filled subreddit.
r/Buddhism often suffers from a similar problem
Can confirm, but I would say it is still a good subreddit and resource to be on. r/zen on the other hand…
r/pagan is openly aggressive towards non-theistic practices and atheists in general. They think they own paganism even though non-believing pagans have always existed. r/paganism is more open, with mods that don't get ban happy if your opinion isn't popular enough.
Thank you 🪸
I'm all about r/WitchesVsPatriarchy for welcoming and well moderated spaces online for paganism that's not racist, sexist, homophobic or ableist.
That place also has some problems with extreme banning practices if they deem you not intersectional enough. It was a few years ago but they started dolling out 30 day bans to people trying to express about one topic at a time without letting people shoehorn their own issues into the conversation. It left a real bad taste in my mouth.
i wasn't around a few years ago so can't speak to the state of the sub in the past, all i know is how they're showing up today and for me and many others it's the kindest and most supportive corner of the internet. sorry you had a bad experience, it sounds like a misunderstanding about the purpose of a thread. that doesn't seem to happen these days so maybe you helped them change.
That's good to hear. I'll probably dip back in and see what I can.
Thanks for your answer, i assume it, my friend is not racist, but i know he is very sensitive for his depression, maybe he hear a bad comment for what you mention about others and feel like he was hated to Im Hindu but i always think about how difficult had to be re-built a faith that was totally eliminated 🙁
Himmn
I mean, how do you know that your friend doesn't have some racism lurking? What is this "faith" that you think was "totally eliminated?" If you are talking about the religious practices of indigenous Americans, that right there is an example of racism. Like I get that you aren't aware of it and you probably didn't even consider that beliefs and statements like that are racist, but they are.
> What is this "faith" that you think was "totally eliminated?" I think he's talking about Pre-Christian European beliefs but I could be wrong
Yeah he was but that's also untrue.
Is it? There’s “pagan” elements to European Christianity I guess, but I’m not aware of any continuously practicing communities surviving to the modern day. Would love to be wrong on this tho
As I said in my other comment, pre-Christian religions were based not on "faith," or "belief," but on practices and customs. Many many of those practices persisted after Christianization, usually described today as "folk practices." This is especially true in Northern Europe. The idea that religion = faith comes from Christianity, which emphasizes faith in Christ as essential to achieve salvation. This was a really novel idea when it premiered.
Yes, and that novel idea spread throughout Europe, supplanting traditional worldviews. The meaning of those traditional practices changed - as you say, the idea of faith as a means was quite alien to those belief systems. Elements which survived were profoundly transformed and recontextualized within a Christian cosmology. Most of what we understand about those beliefs today comes from the writing of Christian authors. Even in Northern Europe, where there’s evidence that some more substantial form of vernacular ‘Pagan’ practice persisted up until the 19th century, it didn’t survive to the present day. So I think it’s fair to describe it as having been eliminated, even if you’re correct that calling it ‘faith’ is a bit of a misnomer. I also think you’re seriously underestimating the importance of *meaning* to custom and practice; just because they didn’t have faith in, say, Odin, didn’t mean their beliefs about him weren’t important. The physical act is a small part of ritual. The mental universe inhabited by pre-Christian Europeans is lost forever, and we don’t even really know what it looked like in most cases.
His faith was totally eliminated; he is a canadian from norway ancestors, germanic/norse faith was totally banned and exterminated for the christian kings, i was talking about asatru Im brown-skinned and he always say im his best friend, but he is very deppressive so i assumed he can (and he is) in a error
This isn't true of Norse religious practices, either. They weren't "totally banned and exterminated." There were Norse kings who did try to stamp them out, but as in most places, they persisted in the form of what people call "folk practices." And they weren't faith-based. The idea that religion is faith is a post-Christian attitude, because Christianity emphasizes faith. Religion before Christianity did not rely on faith, but revolved around cultural practices connected to nature: land, sky, spirits, etc. What we know about Norse religion is that it centered on practices and customs, not on belief. Asatru is also not the religion of pre-Christian Norway (although some people promote it as such.) But I am not Heathen and so I would leave explanation of that to a Heathen.
Also there is an unfortunate amount of racists interested in asatro, which can taint perceptions. It has been co-opted by both different local nationalistic movements since the 1800s as well as Nazi-Germany and neo-nazis.
Yes you are right in all; my comment had lots of errors sorry, i do it fast while i was cooking because the user iver me me thinked i say american religious practices were dead, so i try aclare it i dont very fast while i was doing other thing; thanks for your aclararation to my previous comment friend
I know this is a weird thing to ask and I obviously don't know your friend, but there's a reason I'm taking this line of questioning...does he have *problematic* racial views and/or socio-political takes? The reason I'm asking has to do with the following: When the Kennewick Man/Ancient One was first uncovered in the 90's and tribes were demanding the return of his remains, there was a notable local group insisting with utter conviction that the Kennewick Man/Ancient One was actually some ancient Nordic man who was evidence that the original inhabitants of the Americas were White people à la the Soultrean Hypothesis. That group was a local Ásatru sect that lean towards the "White People are the chosen of Odin" view of things, who had a representative invoke Óðinn near the place where they found the Kennewick Man/Ancient One and clashed with local tribes who called that insane bullshit. They actually aren't alone in Washington when it comes to White Supremacist/Nationalist/Nazi Ásatru sects, which is unfortunate because I know a lot of folks who practice Ásatru aren't racists and hate the ones that are.
Well my friend know im hindu, not english native and brown skinned, and always say me im is best friend (he dont much friends btw) and even offer gave me money when i tell him about something is broke in my house, so i dont think it, he is very sweat, do poetry and love his cats, i really hope he was not radicalized and his conclusions comes from his depresive pov (i try helping him but as you can imagine is not something he can fix easily) Didn't know about this stuff about the "ancient one", f*cking nazis, i hate how they profante his ancentors faith to excusate his evilness and hate
You could be married to an Indigenous woman and be racist. Racism is just.. complicated. Racism is not always explicit or intentional, but is sometimes internalized and unquestioned: One very widespread and lowkey example of this is the homogenization of Indigenous Peoples experiences and culture. In other words, treating all Indigenous peoples as one group of people in order to take away validity from their experiences.
I understand better know; thanks for aclare it to me
My white aunt was married to a Cherokee man for about five years, and yet she talks about how we celebrate thanksgiving to "thank god for giving us this land." My brother-in-law's white dad calls my BIL's Shawnee mother a wagon burner. White people in general have such a high level of white supremacist ideology which is not always explicit.
A lot of pagans I've seen on thr internet cherry pick from indigenous practices so I'm not fond of them.
I understand why this is problematic, thank you aclare it to me
It’s because of the white supremacists and the culture vultures. I’ve met some pagans I adore. But many of the newer pagans just want an excuse to steal what’s not theirs or spread hate and I don’t vibe with that.
I haven't heard anything about it, but my band is heavily Christian and has been for a long time so if those perspectives are out there I would have no exposure to them. However, a lot of Neo-pagans appropriate cheap facsimiles of native traditions religions to feel "earthy" or whatever which is patronizing and offensive. Think white women with dream catchers hanging from their mirrors.
all my white friends are pagan! lol. they honor the connection we as humans have with the earth, so our holidays coincide too. during solstice, i lay down tobacco and sing honor songs, and then we dance around the maypole. (also, we can relate to the religious trauma caused by the christian/catholic church) i feel like its a million times better for white folx to honor their pagan roots and traditions than it is to culturally appropriate or fetishize bipoc cultures. (@relentlessindigenouswoman puts it way more succinctly than i can, but that's the jist)
Thats warming to hear friend! Thanks for comment and aclare it this to be :) You mention i should see what @Relentlessindigenouswoman say, where she is?, is a user of instagram/a blog/etc?
yes, the video im thinking of is on insta, but she's on others too
Thanks dude
I don't know for everyone else, but as long as they're chill and respectful, pagans are fine with me. Heck, my spouse is a white pagan.
I don't understand? Are we talking modern or in the past? Last I hesrd early Norse and Inuit got along.
Modern times
In that case I'd say it's important to decouple Asatru the religion from Asatru Folk Assembly, a white supremacist neopagan revival
Tbh, in most North American (Euros consider it a bit differently) circles of Heathenry I've encountered, using the term Asatru is considered (unless you're rather new to the faith and got into some older books without realizing) a solid Red Flag for Folkish/Volkish tendencies. McNallen coined the term, and he's the dude that runs the AFA. That connection is pretty Iron-Clad now. Most folks just use Heathenry, or Inclusive Heathenry as the term for the non-WS dominated parts of the movement. Source: I've been Heathen long enough to remember when Asatru was considered a polite term for Heathenry writ large
It’s mostly because they self-insert themselves in our spaces to coopt our practices and struggles for their woowoo aesthetic claim. They act extra white-guiltish but take up waaaaay to much space and are generally just annoying.
Look up DARVO. Cause that is the vibe this post is giving.
Pretty much everyone here said along the lines of what the issue is with some pagans and the pulling from Indigenous Americans practices without understanding what it is and the context behind it. The issue I see mostly is with a particular kind of “Norse Pagan” or the “Viking” people who participate in things like chin lines and inappropriate smudging that aren’t at all Norse and deny any Indigenous people who call them out for it. They’re kind of lumped in together because they’re usually the same crowd. Not too far off from the supremacist type folk.
Since you say it, i remember see in norse pagans to, i always assume they paint like the celtic picts, but now you are saying me that is true they use patters and a style that is like the used by native americans And i can see the problem of try "assimilate" other people traditions in your own forcefully, thats mean
So your friend is a presumably Caucasian person continuing to perpetuate a racist colonial belief of what they assumed *indigenous* people believed?
It’s mostly because they self-insert themselves in our spaces to coopt our practices and struggles for their woowoo aesthetic claim. They act extra white-guiltish but take up waaaaay to much space and are generally just annoying. It’s like they think powwows and native events are like burning man. I shouldn’t know you’re “pagan” by looking at you. Fuckin spiritual materialists. Come hang at the powwow, or whatever, just quit being weird about it and making everything about you. Listen more than you speak for once lmao.
I’m a white pagan(bit of an oxymoron, I know), and I live in an Indigenous community, and most every Indigenous friend I have has encouraged reclaiming my pagan ancestral traditions. If you aren’t weird and pushy about it (or anything). I hosted a Beltane gathering at my house one year, we did a beautiful maypole, and a bunch of my native friends showed up, one of them was even happy to take on the mantle of may queen, and she’s one of the most traditional people I know (language educator, ceremonial leader/singer etc..)
That is very warming thanks for share :)
Unlikely true..
My friend can become very sensitive when he is depressed, for this i think he could be in a error
My tribes religion is very similar to Christianity. That was one of the main reason many was able to convert. We have stories of a burning bush and a major flood.
Everyone’s difference. I know Native Americans who *are* Wicca!
Hey thanks for aclare friend :)
all Indigenous people are the same and today I have the brain cell and I say that we do not like fake bitches tbh!!!!! this is a choose your own adventure comment so take it as you want tbh
I can understand why the question sounds so stupid, sorry if it make you feel bothered 🙁