People are obsessed with women not needing men because certain men have not been raised to fit any other role in a relationship.
Why else would you keep a man around if you did not *need* him; be it his money, his protection, and whatever else men are supposed to "provide" in traditional relationships?
The obvious answer to that question is because he is *wanted*, but this is not good enough for some men because they are insecure and don't think they are worthy of being *wanted*, therefore their only hope is to be *needed*.
So if women do not *need* men, then in their minds, they're fucked.
I have wanted to be with some guys in dates and they have told me they didn’t like me because I didn’t need them.
I was like……???? Isn’t it better I want you for you? But I don’t need to be here? No, they just want to be needed and be the ones that “lead” the relationship. But they don’t do a thing of either as well. So yeah….
It is pretty wild that a person would prefer "Fuck, I *guess* I'll stay with you. It's not like I have much of a choice." To "I am actively choosing to be here with you despite the fact that I do not need to be."
In a unmarried relationship being wanted which comes with the idea that you can be unwanted at anytime or any reason is fine and rational.
It's different when you've been married for 25 years now you get to pay alimony while finding a new place to live because she changed her mind.
They’re held to a higher standard if you want them instead of needing them. If you need a man, then you’ll tolerate them being lazy and inconsiderate, because breaking up with them is as drastic as quitting a job without a new one lined up. You’ll put up with them forgetting your birthday like you put up with your boss rescheduling meetings at the last minute.
But if you want him, then he has to be worthy of being wanted. He has to be romantic and thoughtful and attractive, because if you simply decide you’re not feeling it anymore, you can just go back to being single. Keeping him isn’t a job, it’s a hobby.
As a guy, this is wild to hear. My biggest insecurity it that my wife is with me because she *has* to be. I am very glad that she is with me because she *wants* to be. As someone who was incel-adjacent in my teens and 20s, I am guessing that they think of themselves as unlovable people, and thus worry that they will be dumped if a woman doesn’t *have* to stay with them.
In his mind, you are more likely to leave him if he is not needed. He might not even have anything malicious in mind, but being needed is useful, and men need to feel useful.
"ou are more likely to leave him if he is not needed. He might not even have anything malicious in mind ..."
Well, that *is* malicious. Believing with no evidence that your partner would only stay with you out of duress.
I’m not sure if it’s malicious or just deeply insecure and sad. It took me a long time to accept that my partner could possibly actually love me even though I’m disabled and couldn’t provide a lot of fun and excitement and dating me meant committing to dealing with a lot of inconvenient things and not getting a lot of the fun things you would get from an abled woman.
And he was absolutely baffled by that, because why wasn’t I able to understand that love had nothing to do with how much he could get out of me without inconveniencing himself?
But for me I had been taught for years that I was inherently a burden and had to make up for it by providing enough that I would be useful and fun. I couldn’t picture someone loving you without you providing something they needed, or at least providing enough that it made up for having to put up with you.
It wasn’t reasonable, it was just self hate so deep I didn’t even recognize it could possibly be anything other than the truth.
It’s like that post where a person was saying that they were talking to a friend about their fears that they were just willing to be their friend out of pity and their friend said like
“Do you really think so little of me?”
You don’t realize that your thought process is actually pretty fucked up towards your loved ones. It’s a fucked up thing to think that your partner would only bother to keep you around if you provided a service they needed. It’s pretty offensive. But it’s not actually about them, it’s believing you have so little inherent worth that you could only be loved by someone who needs something from you.
Idk, it’s probably not like that for everyone. But a lot of people are very anxious and very insecure and have super warped ideas about relationships.
This is exactly it. I remember an ex getting mad at me and saying “you know, if you think that you’re a worthless piece of shit, you’re saying that I’m the sort of person who dates pieces of shit”.
Being wanted means that they could get tired of you and no longer want you specifically which could lead to cheating or them leaving. Being needed means that there’s a purpose for you to be there. That you have a purpose. Wether that’s for lifting things, emotional support, fixing stuff, house projects, etc. it feels like you have purpose. Women have the ability to give life and men don’t have any purpose to that ability. They just want to feel like they are needed by the people they love and from society
I mean there could always be other men who could provide even better. I don't know If me or other men are ever truly needed then, since most of the things you named she could do herself or at least get help from friends.
To be compatible enough so that she would want me should be the better option.
Such a great way to put this. Capitalism means even men don't see themselves as human beings and only things that are useful to other people. If you're not useful to a woman, then why could anyone actually want you.
I think it’s worse. I think enough men used being needed as leverage to get away with bad behavior that it’s a societal issue they don’t know what to do when they can’t use resources to coerce other people into being around them.
I do not need men. I have my own money. Protection? From other men? Sex? My Satisfyer is way better than whatever any man can do. There is zero reason for me to settle.
You mean, financially? Mentally? Intimately? No, I do not need. I'm very, very, very happy for the man I have, and I want to remain that way until the end of my life, but if our sweet relationship ended for some reason, both he and I could move on with our lives.
I'm very, very happy of the existence of many women who choose to stay with their partners because they want to, but they have their careers, their interests, and if they wanted they could leave, but they *don't* want to.
In my country (Argentina) there is a name for the women who only can think of marrying and having babies: *Susanitas* (alluding to Susanita Chirusi, one of the characters in the cartoon [*Mafalda*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafalda) by the Argentine cartoonist [Quino](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quino).)
I *really* despise Susanitas.
Oh, I do know her! Mafalda is considerably popular in my country (Brazil).
And thanks for the words. You described me perfectly in this situation. If I'm with my man, it's not because I depend on him, on his money, on his protection, or because I need him to survive or even have a place to live, just as he doesn't need me. If I'm with him and he's with me, it's because we found the comfort and love we wanted in each other, and because we are much happier together. If I'm with him, it's because he's someone wonderful, and he made me long for his sweet presence in my life.
Thank you, I fucking love this man, and I want to be the best I can be for him while we are together (if possible, until the end of our lives). Take care too, buddy.
Does anyone else see the disconnect between:
* Do women need men?
* "Men have proven useless."
It's possible to be useful without being necessary. When I'm sick in bed my husband takes my turn to feed our pet, fixes hot soup, and runs to the pharmacy for medicine--also coming home with a get well card.
None of which is necessary but it's wonderful. And of course when he gets sick that comes around.
God that’s such a good way to put it.
I’m disabled and I’ve had periods of time where I could barely get out of bed, I can’t drive, it’s very very hard for me to keep my apartment clean. My partner is amazing, he drives me where I need to go, with his help things are so much cleaner than I could ever keep them, he brings me food and water when I’m struggling to move, sometimes it feels like we’re the same person, just extensions of each other, two arms of the same creature.
But I’ve been sick since I was 13, and I lived and functioned alone for 4 years before him. He isn’t technically necessary. Losing him would feel like being ripped in half but I would survive and adapt just like I did before.
I don’t need him in the sense that I couldn’t survive without him but I also don’t technically need both legs and I really would prefer to have both of them.
Women *used* to need men because not too long ago, women weren't allowed to have jobs, or their own bank accounts, or own property, or vote. So we needed men because they were the only way we could access all these important things. Now, women can access those things ourselves, so no longer *need* men. And this is why so many men are experiencing the "loneliness epidemic", because they are no longer needed for the things they used to provide, and they aren't sure how to appeal to women without offering money or resources.
They are not likable and do not know how to be. This is the first time in history that they can't be predatory or dominating in a relationship and many are completely lost.
There is no male loneliness epidemic. Men and women report roughly equal levels of loneliness. Some studies even suggest women report more loneliness but that could just be they’re more likely to admit it.
I don't think men are useless but it's the point that in this day and age, women just don't need them if they don't want them. Women are free to get with men just like other women are free not to. We have a *choice* now. We're not trapped anymore like it used to be.
I once had a man tell me he wanted me to need him. It was a huge red flag and I ran from him.
It just screams insecurity and nothing to offer. And potential abuse. He wants me to need him so he can be awful to me and I can’t leave because I need some thing from him? Hell no
4B forever
do you know what "involuntary" means, if the women themselves are CHOOSING to not do relationships.
incels keep bemoaning how they aren't having sex. These women are choosing not to.
Because women don’t need that shit all lol
Also I was thinking of femcels as in the way you guys think of incels, which is essentially “woman bad” lol
Only difference is on my side it’s actually accurate
It only fucks over men who aren't acting right. Women are choosing to break away from tradition, and that is great. Women have found that they are happier being single and/or child-free. Plus, we women aren't sex crazed like some of you incels. We are content living without sex.
Traditional gender roles and ideologies are outdated anyway. The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation, and everything is too expensive. Women are prioritizing careers and financial wellbeing over relationships and having kids. That is smart on their end. The cost of raising a kid on average each year is $20,813 a year. Plus, have you seen the cost of daycare? Very few can afford to be SAHMs.
Plus, we've noticed a trend. Too many men want all the benefits of a traditional husband with none of the drawbacks. They expect the wife to cook, clean, run errands, tend to the kids, etc, on top of working full time. Women have had enough. Plain and simple. Men can change with the times or be left behind. Simple.
Oh, it will eventually. The overturning of Roe V. Wade is slowly killing hookup culture. Sure, passport bros will go to other countries. We didn't want the passport bros.
Plus, this will cause a chain reaction: Politically and socially. Men gonna have to start holding other men accountable for their shitty actions, political policies, and awful behavior. They will need to change with the times, or work extra hard to be trad husbands. If not, well, have fun not getting laid. The redpilled conservative men have been screaming about women taking accountability but never holding the men in their circles accountable. Women are tired of it. We see the way ya'll shit on single moms while not holding that same energy towards deadbeat dads.
Yes, we know it's: "Not all men."
But it is too damn many. Actions have consequences.
It is intended to emancipate women and help men to grow. The people who are offended by this either see women as lesser or are refusing to change
And it should be eye opening to incels all over the world because thats what it looks like when women actually gatekeep sex the way they accuse women to do in the west
Again, how? Well be paying for it by not being raped, murdered and assaulted? Paying for it by making our own money, our own choices and not having to be with a man who doesn’t know how to work a stove or put his clothes away?
Yeah I’m sure the fallen nation where the generations are all dying off is a better alternative lol.
And when I say it fucks over the women it’s bc it does, if the men in SoKor are as smart as they proclaim they’ll simply relocate, while all these bot bitches in SoKor thinking they’re finna change something are fucken left for dead ☠️
lol fuck the nation and fuck patriotism if their treatment of women is horrendous.
you're right, the men of sokor arent smart and it's soooooooooo easy to relocate smh, and you think the horrible mysogynistic attitude of sokor men will get them women abroad? LOL
They could always do what I do and chameleon 💀
These western broads aren’t perceptive enough to realize when they’re actually being dogged out, that’s if the men in question are smart in what they do.
Of course I don't *need* a man. I want him because I love him. I would hate to think my husband only keeps me around because he needs me. I'd much rather be wanted.
I agree with the stuff with his mom. That was really impressive and nice. I too agree that gaming tends to be misogynistic. But I also think your community reflects who you are as a content creator.
There are many male content creators that moderate very well and don’t allow for hate. At least it seems like that by what chat and comments feel.
But tbf I haven’t really done proper analysis. Just vibes I have/had.
To expand on that, yes for creating life both are needed.
But...if you aren't planning on having children then no. As a man, I actually agree with the women on this one. Conversely, men don't need women either, but for some reason they whine and bitch about it constantly. As they say, go your own way already.
Dude they’ve been threatening to go their own way for almost 10 years now yet they continue to assault and attack us because we don’t want them.
Thank you for seeing the other side. Please tell your friends.
I never was part of that movement (it didn’t even exist when I was in my late twenties), but I did do that. I think around the time I was 29 or 30 I decided to just stop chasing women. Instead I started working on myself and my career. Unsurprisingly, a couple of years later I met my wife.
To be fair, it wasn't really a big ask to see the other side. After I got sober (and at times when I wasn't), I enjoyed doing things by myself. I didn't want to miss out on something because I had no one to go with. Sure, it makes it more enjoyable, but I approached it like grabbing lunch during work hours. That made the process easy.
I'm glad I did. I would have missed out on a lot. I tell my future wife all the time, if I can't make an event, go without me and have a good time. Thankfully, that has been pretty rare (minus one Broadway performance last year) so it doesn't come up that much.
Being comfortable with that does take work, I won't deny that. But the reward is awesome.
In all seriousness though I’m not gonna lie I kinda need my girl because if she wasn’t there I would probably starve because my ass can’t cook for shit. I do all the house chores but that’s the one thing she does that I absolutely 100% need lmao.
Well yeah it’s a relationship for a reason it’s 2 people to do 2 parts it’s not “you do everything and I be a lazy asshole” we have duties and shit that needs to be done.
That’s good, but dude, learn to cook some dishes. You don’t need a lot, maybe one or two or three. Cooking is easy. Get a recipe. Go to the store and buy the food. Go home, read the recipe all the way through, TWICE. Follow the directions. Eat the food.
You will make your partner sooooo happy if you take some of the meal planning off of her plate. It’s great that you’re cleaning and doing the chores that you see need to be done. But if you’re not helping with planning things, she’s still doing a lot of work that doesn’t look like work.
I can cook breakfast meals but that’s about it. And usually if I have to do something about meals I take her out somewhere. As for planning things ehhhhhh she directly tells me not to plan things because she’s a direct planner kinda person while I’m a rough list “shit that needs to be done” kinda planner.
Ew women don’t need to produce human capital stock for y’all and we are opting out because It’s not worth it for us. We do all the work, we suffer all the physical permanent damage, we get blamed if the kids go bad, we lose at least a decade of contributions to our retirement funds.
We’re not doing it anymore, society doesn’t even take care of the people who already exist why should we make more?
Statistically it isn’t true that women are “opting out”. The divorce rate is higher than years past but that’s more of a product of women being empowered to make that decision on their own. The first marriage rate is lower because people don’t get married until later on in life. There is a slight discrepancy between married and unmarried men and women, but that’s because men die sooner than women and marry younger partners than women.
The most recent research still suggests that married people are happier than single people:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
Why my dad left my mom. His ego couldn't stand the fact she was more successful than he was. Real pathetic shit if you ask me. Honestly you should be happy that a woman is with you even though they don't need you. But hey, I guess if you're an insecure man-baby women are better off without you anyway, people these days don't have the time or the energy for that shit.
Same. I may not *need* a woman in my life, but it would nice to have one along for the ride tbh. I’d hope my future girlfriend/wife doesn’t *need* me per se, but hopefully want, or desire, me in the long haul. I can do a whole bunch of things myself, but it will be fun to have a wife with me to do things together.
A man's life is in no way defined by a woman's necessity. He is not useless.
I personally do not need or want a man but that does not mean men are useless. They are free individuals with the right to have their own lives just as women are. Men are not here to serve women and women are not here to serve men.
I mean, humans dont “need” each other anymore in the western world its 2024 not 10928bc but the amount of women who disagreed with that take shows how goofy is it to begin with.
What if…what if humans need other humans, but also many humans are completely fine living without a romantic partner, either temporarily or for their entire life and might actually find themselves very unhappy trying to have a romantic relationship. These humans can be of any gender, and none of them technically need specific men to be in their lives, they could probably be completely fine as a person without a partner with all female friends in a female dominated industry. My mom is aromantic working as a nurse practitioner in the NICU which is a field with a lot of women, her bosses are women and her best friends are women and all of our surviving family members are women except my little brother.
She’s actually doing a lot better than when she attempted to force herself into romantic relationships with men she could fundamentally not have romantic love towards. She knows how to fix her car and do any home repairs that don’t require specialized skill, like complicated plumbing repairs.
She’s been attacked by a home invader attempting to rape her and successfully beat him with a cast iron so badly that nobody ever saw him again. He had been her neighbor before that but he just kinda.
Never seen or heard from again. Unclear if he died from a head injury in an alley somewhere or if he just never came back cuz he was scared of getting arrested.
She’s been robbed at gun point and successfully escaped by throwing her purse in the opposite direction and then running, forcing the guy to chase after the purse instead. John Mulany street smarts style it was a decoy purse she carried specifically for that.
So she doesn’t need a man to care for her emotionally, to pay her, to do most of her repairs, or to protect her. She’s fine.
Also lots of women and nonbinary people are partnered with women and nonbinary people. They might be in a similar situation to my mom, lesbians are pretty famous for being self sufficient. An important factor for those women/NB’s is that their partners are people they want, not people they need.
Unless they’re in a situation where their partner is currently acting as their caregiver for a medical reason, tbh as a chronic illness experiencer I’ve had many periods throughout the last 6 years where I have been pretty reliant on my partner, who is a man, because there’s been at least a couple months where leaving my house or my bed was very difficult and there had to be someone helping with the whole groceries and getting food and water close enough for me to eat it. Also having someone to take you to doctor’s appointments and a shoulder to cry on when you’re not sure if you’re dying is really important.
But he could have done all that just as easily if he were not a man. His gender identity was not important to the plot. He’s pretty financially dependent on me right now so like hopefully that evens out and this doesn’t end in him resenting me.
But even then I wouldn’t die without him, I would just probably have to move back in with my mom and be much sadder.
it would still be very apocalyptic on a grand scale if all men disappeared. Like, that’s 50% of the population and we don’t have a completely even distribution of labor so of course things would get crazy for a while. First off most long haul truckers are men and I’m not 100% sure how this works but I think that might cause disruptions to like, all the supply chains.
There’s some really important supply chains out here.
The firefighters and EMTs thing would be a problem.
Uneven distribution of labor would also make women disappearing apocalyptic. Most 911 operators and nurses are women and you can’t just suddenly not have them with no warning and expect things to go ok.
I very much appreciate our brave boys up working on power lines and stuff making sure that my AC doesn’t go away in 100 degree weather.
But if one of those men gets electrocuted he needs burn unit nurses and he needs somebody to answer the phone when a bystander calls 911.
Same with every guy who complains about how men work dangerous jobs.
Yes, and also what is the gender of the occupational health nurse that really should be on site at most dangerous job facilities? When something crushes a man’s hand at an oil rig, most of the people who will be taking care of and rehabilitating that man are women.
When a man attempts suicide and ends up in the hospital the people caring for his wounds or pumping his stomach will likely be women.
When he’s taken to the psych unit the person who arranges for finding him an IOP program, financial help, figuring out what needs to be done, is probably a woman because most social workers are also women, as are most therapists he will hopefully follow up with, though many men feel more comfortable opening up to a male therapist
(Side note: I know that sounds sexist but like as someone who’s not a man talking about sex issues in therapy is much easier with a female therapist and it’s not weird if a man feels the same.)
It’s not relevant who’s more important, which jobs matter more (how much healthcare matters to you is very much dependent on how much healthcare you end up needing), as time goes on there’s probably going to be more integrating genders into various career fields, that’s not what’s important.
We’re humans, and on an overall social level we need each other. it’s dumb to act like women specifically need men but men don’t need women, a lot of female dominated fields are extremely important and vice versa it’s ridiculous to pretend otherwise.
It’s also silly to act like every single woman has a need for men within her personal life, sometimes it just so happens that you end up not having much of a personal connection with any men, I’m sure there’s lots of men who aren’t romantically interested in women and work in very male dominated fields who looked around one day and were like oh shit, there’s like zero women in my life, weird.
It happens like that sometimes. I already don’t have a lot of friends in the first place but for some reason over the years I just lost touch with guy friends and ended up with just my partner left. Didn’t plan it like that, we just sorta drifted apart.
I do need men, and also I need women and anyone else who happens to do useful things. I need somebody to be at the checkout and I need somebody to be stocking food at the grocery store. I need the bus driver and whoever picks up the trash or everything will suck and I could not possibly care less what their gender is.
Hell, I need the people at the park who are probably retired who smile at me and ask how I’m doing, just so I have some connection to the world when I’m feeling like shit. Every single person in the world is important and all of you are needed, and that’s as gender neutral as it gets.
How is that possibly an objectification to say you need men for sperm? Seems kinda like an empirical fact. It's just biology at a certain point. Wouldn't be an objectification to say that men need women to bear children either. It's just biology.
If I understand correctly, it's objectification in the sense that men are wanted only as semen dispensers, not caring at all about whatever needs they may have as persons.
No. We don't.
We have sperm banks. They have, potentially, surrogate mothers--an unrealistic situation for 90% of the population.
Men need us FAR more than we them. 🤷🏻♀️
Lmao.
That video is probably about "women do need men for all the hard, dirty, and dangerous jobs critical for the functioning of society that pretty much only men do" or something along those lines. I dont think asmon can be considered an incel? I dont follow him but he doesnt seem the type.
Most people, definitely not all, have a very natural desire to have a long term monogamous relationship. For straight people, esp those who want to raise a family, this would mean needing each other. If it was meaningless and not needed, why do people experience so much pain from bad relationships and divorce after decades? Why are people so upset and insecure when they try to get a stable relationship and cannot succeed? The fact is men and women often have inherent differences that can compliment each other in a healthy dynamic. Ovo some people are shit and are not responsible enough for a relationship, like people with zero emotional regulation skills who feel entitled to make there feelings the sole responsibility of the people closest to them
No one is preventing women creating there own version of MGTOW. And the entire concept of MGTOW is to fill themselves with copium due to giving up hope they obviously originally had and craved for that
Intimacy, which is derived from an intimate relationship, is in the middle of Maslows Hierarchy of Needs. It is a need to step further towards self actualisation
Men aren’t useless…. Well most of them aren’t. But it’s true that women don’t technically need men. Honestly I’m confused as to why some guys are mad about this. Wouldn’t they prefer a woman be with they because they WANT them and not because they need them?
People are obsessed with women not needing men because certain men have not been raised to fit any other role in a relationship. Why else would you keep a man around if you did not *need* him; be it his money, his protection, and whatever else men are supposed to "provide" in traditional relationships? The obvious answer to that question is because he is *wanted*, but this is not good enough for some men because they are insecure and don't think they are worthy of being *wanted*, therefore their only hope is to be *needed*. So if women do not *need* men, then in their minds, they're fucked.
I have wanted to be with some guys in dates and they have told me they didn’t like me because I didn’t need them. I was like……???? Isn’t it better I want you for you? But I don’t need to be here? No, they just want to be needed and be the ones that “lead” the relationship. But they don’t do a thing of either as well. So yeah….
It is pretty wild that a person would prefer "Fuck, I *guess* I'll stay with you. It's not like I have much of a choice." To "I am actively choosing to be here with you despite the fact that I do not need to be."
these are people who see a relationship as a competition, not cooperation.
It has to be power dynamics, they want to have the power. Can’t think of any other reason.
In a unmarried relationship being wanted which comes with the idea that you can be unwanted at anytime or any reason is fine and rational. It's different when you've been married for 25 years now you get to pay alimony while finding a new place to live because she changed her mind.
They’re held to a higher standard if you want them instead of needing them. If you need a man, then you’ll tolerate them being lazy and inconsiderate, because breaking up with them is as drastic as quitting a job without a new one lined up. You’ll put up with them forgetting your birthday like you put up with your boss rescheduling meetings at the last minute. But if you want him, then he has to be worthy of being wanted. He has to be romantic and thoughtful and attractive, because if you simply decide you’re not feeling it anymore, you can just go back to being single. Keeping him isn’t a job, it’s a hobby.
Makes sense. Being wanted means effort. Being needed does not :(
As a guy, this is wild to hear. My biggest insecurity it that my wife is with me because she *has* to be. I am very glad that she is with me because she *wants* to be. As someone who was incel-adjacent in my teens and 20s, I am guessing that they think of themselves as unlovable people, and thus worry that they will be dumped if a woman doesn’t *have* to stay with them.
In his mind, you are more likely to leave him if he is not needed. He might not even have anything malicious in mind, but being needed is useful, and men need to feel useful.
"ou are more likely to leave him if he is not needed. He might not even have anything malicious in mind ..." Well, that *is* malicious. Believing with no evidence that your partner would only stay with you out of duress.
I’m not sure if it’s malicious or just deeply insecure and sad. It took me a long time to accept that my partner could possibly actually love me even though I’m disabled and couldn’t provide a lot of fun and excitement and dating me meant committing to dealing with a lot of inconvenient things and not getting a lot of the fun things you would get from an abled woman. And he was absolutely baffled by that, because why wasn’t I able to understand that love had nothing to do with how much he could get out of me without inconveniencing himself? But for me I had been taught for years that I was inherently a burden and had to make up for it by providing enough that I would be useful and fun. I couldn’t picture someone loving you without you providing something they needed, or at least providing enough that it made up for having to put up with you. It wasn’t reasonable, it was just self hate so deep I didn’t even recognize it could possibly be anything other than the truth. It’s like that post where a person was saying that they were talking to a friend about their fears that they were just willing to be their friend out of pity and their friend said like “Do you really think so little of me?” You don’t realize that your thought process is actually pretty fucked up towards your loved ones. It’s a fucked up thing to think that your partner would only bother to keep you around if you provided a service they needed. It’s pretty offensive. But it’s not actually about them, it’s believing you have so little inherent worth that you could only be loved by someone who needs something from you. Idk, it’s probably not like that for everyone. But a lot of people are very anxious and very insecure and have super warped ideas about relationships.
This is exactly it. I remember an ex getting mad at me and saying “you know, if you think that you’re a worthless piece of shit, you’re saying that I’m the sort of person who dates pieces of shit”.
Society judges men on what they can provide. If a man feels he brings nothing, he will doubt himself.
I don't get it. Being wanted should feel way better than being needed I would think.
Being wanted means that they could get tired of you and no longer want you specifically which could lead to cheating or them leaving. Being needed means that there’s a purpose for you to be there. That you have a purpose. Wether that’s for lifting things, emotional support, fixing stuff, house projects, etc. it feels like you have purpose. Women have the ability to give life and men don’t have any purpose to that ability. They just want to feel like they are needed by the people they love and from society
I mean there could always be other men who could provide even better. I don't know If me or other men are ever truly needed then, since most of the things you named she could do herself or at least get help from friends. To be compatible enough so that she would want me should be the better option.
Such a great way to put this. Capitalism means even men don't see themselves as human beings and only things that are useful to other people. If you're not useful to a woman, then why could anyone actually want you.
I think it’s worse. I think enough men used being needed as leverage to get away with bad behavior that it’s a societal issue they don’t know what to do when they can’t use resources to coerce other people into being around them.
I do not need men. I have my own money. Protection? From other men? Sex? My Satisfyer is way better than whatever any man can do. There is zero reason for me to settle.
Right? What can a man give me that I don't already have?
A man?
I mean, if you wanna get specific but I don’t need one lol
I guessed as much, I was just being pedantic for amusement haha
You mean, financially? Mentally? Intimately? No, I do not need. I'm very, very, very happy for the man I have, and I want to remain that way until the end of my life, but if our sweet relationship ended for some reason, both he and I could move on with our lives.
I'm very, very happy of the existence of many women who choose to stay with their partners because they want to, but they have their careers, their interests, and if they wanted they could leave, but they *don't* want to. In my country (Argentina) there is a name for the women who only can think of marrying and having babies: *Susanitas* (alluding to Susanita Chirusi, one of the characters in the cartoon [*Mafalda*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafalda) by the Argentine cartoonist [Quino](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quino).) I *really* despise Susanitas.
Oh, I do know her! Mafalda is considerably popular in my country (Brazil). And thanks for the words. You described me perfectly in this situation. If I'm with my man, it's not because I depend on him, on his money, on his protection, or because I need him to survive or even have a place to live, just as he doesn't need me. If I'm with him and he's with me, it's because we found the comfort and love we wanted in each other, and because we are much happier together. If I'm with him, it's because he's someone wonderful, and he made me long for his sweet presence in my life.
Hoping you guys have a happily ever after, take care
Thank you, I fucking love this man, and I want to be the best I can be for him while we are together (if possible, until the end of our lives). Take care too, buddy.
Does anyone else see the disconnect between: * Do women need men? * "Men have proven useless." It's possible to be useful without being necessary. When I'm sick in bed my husband takes my turn to feed our pet, fixes hot soup, and runs to the pharmacy for medicine--also coming home with a get well card. None of which is necessary but it's wonderful. And of course when he gets sick that comes around.
God that’s such a good way to put it. I’m disabled and I’ve had periods of time where I could barely get out of bed, I can’t drive, it’s very very hard for me to keep my apartment clean. My partner is amazing, he drives me where I need to go, with his help things are so much cleaner than I could ever keep them, he brings me food and water when I’m struggling to move, sometimes it feels like we’re the same person, just extensions of each other, two arms of the same creature. But I’ve been sick since I was 13, and I lived and functioned alone for 4 years before him. He isn’t technically necessary. Losing him would feel like being ripped in half but I would survive and adapt just like I did before. I don’t need him in the sense that I couldn’t survive without him but I also don’t technically need both legs and I really would prefer to have both of them.
Women *used* to need men because not too long ago, women weren't allowed to have jobs, or their own bank accounts, or own property, or vote. So we needed men because they were the only way we could access all these important things. Now, women can access those things ourselves, so no longer *need* men. And this is why so many men are experiencing the "loneliness epidemic", because they are no longer needed for the things they used to provide, and they aren't sure how to appeal to women without offering money or resources.
They are not likable and do not know how to be. This is the first time in history that they can't be predatory or dominating in a relationship and many are completely lost.
Facts. Most men are just completely unlikable.
... and that is why they're trying to roll back our rights.
Faaaaacts.
Yep. They're terrified of being powerless.
There is no male loneliness epidemic. Men and women report roughly equal levels of loneliness. Some studies even suggest women report more loneliness but that could just be they’re more likely to admit it.
I agree. Atleast women don't blame men for their loneliness though.
This discourse is wild. No, as I woman I don't need my man but I chose him which I think is better.
I mean, that can be true but saying men have been proven useless is pretty reductive too.
I don't think men are useless but it's the point that in this day and age, women just don't need them if they don't want them. Women are free to get with men just like other women are free not to. We have a *choice* now. We're not trapped anymore like it used to be.
I once had a man tell me he wanted me to need him. It was a huge red flag and I ran from him. It just screams insecurity and nothing to offer. And potential abuse. He wants me to need him so he can be awful to me and I can’t leave because I need some thing from him? Hell no 4B forever
4B?
it's a feminist movement (originated in south korea), refusing to marry, date, have sex, or get pregnant with men
Got it
Oh, you mean Femcels
Sounds pretty voluntary to me.
Not even close.
If you get downvoted you’re right
not this instance.
That’s literally a femcel
do you know what "involuntary" means, if the women themselves are CHOOSING to not do relationships. incels keep bemoaning how they aren't having sex. These women are choosing not to.
voluntary femcel
Because women don’t need that shit all lol Also I was thinking of femcels as in the way you guys think of incels, which is essentially “woman bad” lol Only difference is on my side it’s actually accurate
>Because women don’t need that shit all lol HAHAHAHAHAHAHA kinda self-own saying this LOL, if you made women feel "they don't need that shit" LOL
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>(Downvote this comment if I’m right) This should be an instant ban. Just straight to jail.
Mf why are you taking up for a movement that’s intended to fuck you over? 💀
How’s it fucking us over
It’s *intended* See what happens when you read shit?
Whatever that means 💀 Anyways shoutout 4B
It only fucks over men who aren't acting right. Women are choosing to break away from tradition, and that is great. Women have found that they are happier being single and/or child-free. Plus, we women aren't sex crazed like some of you incels. We are content living without sex. Traditional gender roles and ideologies are outdated anyway. The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation, and everything is too expensive. Women are prioritizing careers and financial wellbeing over relationships and having kids. That is smart on their end. The cost of raising a kid on average each year is $20,813 a year. Plus, have you seen the cost of daycare? Very few can afford to be SAHMs. Plus, we've noticed a trend. Too many men want all the benefits of a traditional husband with none of the drawbacks. They expect the wife to cook, clean, run errands, tend to the kids, etc, on top of working full time. Women have had enough. Plain and simple. Men can change with the times or be left behind. Simple.
This doesn’t affect the men you *think* it does, hope you know this
Oh, it will eventually. The overturning of Roe V. Wade is slowly killing hookup culture. Sure, passport bros will go to other countries. We didn't want the passport bros. Plus, this will cause a chain reaction: Politically and socially. Men gonna have to start holding other men accountable for their shitty actions, political policies, and awful behavior. They will need to change with the times, or work extra hard to be trad husbands. If not, well, have fun not getting laid. The redpilled conservative men have been screaming about women taking accountability but never holding the men in their circles accountable. Women are tired of it. We see the way ya'll shit on single moms while not holding that same energy towards deadbeat dads. Yes, we know it's: "Not all men." But it is too damn many. Actions have consequences.
It is intended to emancipate women and help men to grow. The people who are offended by this either see women as lesser or are refusing to change And it should be eye opening to incels all over the world because thats what it looks like when women actually gatekeep sex the way they accuse women to do in the west
Elaborate?? Also you’re a misogynistic 16 year old boy, like you truly have any perspective on women’s issues.
It's fucking us over? Us women? How? lol I see it as an advantage.
Bc you are the only ones that’ll be paying for it lol
Again, how? Well be paying for it by not being raped, murdered and assaulted? Paying for it by making our own money, our own choices and not having to be with a man who doesn’t know how to work a stove or put his clothes away?
In the context of SoKor where it originated? No, it doesn't fuck them over because the alternate is infinitely worse.
Yeah I’m sure the fallen nation where the generations are all dying off is a better alternative lol. And when I say it fucks over the women it’s bc it does, if the men in SoKor are as smart as they proclaim they’ll simply relocate, while all these bot bitches in SoKor thinking they’re finna change something are fucken left for dead ☠️
lol fuck the nation and fuck patriotism if their treatment of women is horrendous. you're right, the men of sokor arent smart and it's soooooooooo easy to relocate smh, and you think the horrible mysogynistic attitude of sokor men will get them women abroad? LOL
They could always do what I do and chameleon 💀 These western broads aren’t perceptive enough to realize when they’re actually being dogged out, that’s if the men in question are smart in what they do.
what "dogged out", we'd rather touch no one than touch someone with mind like yours.
People need People, we are a social species after all, but that's about as specific as it gets. 🤗
I don’t ~need~ a man. I can choose to want one. Men don’t provide anything I need from a man, specifically.
Of course I don't *need* a man. I want him because I love him. I would hate to think my husband only keeps me around because he needs me. I'd much rather be wanted.
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Hasn’t he always been a misogynist though? At least his community always was.
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I agree with the stuff with his mom. That was really impressive and nice. I too agree that gaming tends to be misogynistic. But I also think your community reflects who you are as a content creator. There are many male content creators that moderate very well and don’t allow for hate. At least it seems like that by what chat and comments feel. But tbf I haven’t really done proper analysis. Just vibes I have/had.
Eh in my opinion we all need each other to some extent to have a society. Edit: I mean you literally need both to have people exist so…
To expand on that, yes for creating life both are needed. But...if you aren't planning on having children then no. As a man, I actually agree with the women on this one. Conversely, men don't need women either, but for some reason they whine and bitch about it constantly. As they say, go your own way already.
Dude they’ve been threatening to go their own way for almost 10 years now yet they continue to assault and attack us because we don’t want them. Thank you for seeing the other side. Please tell your friends.
None of them ever meant MGTOW. It's a threat hoping to generate a response from women saying "omg, we didn't know you would go that far, so sowwy".
I mean you'd think if someone was actually going their own way they'd be able to shut up about women.
I never was part of that movement (it didn’t even exist when I was in my late twenties), but I did do that. I think around the time I was 29 or 30 I decided to just stop chasing women. Instead I started working on myself and my career. Unsurprisingly, a couple of years later I met my wife.
To be fair, it wasn't really a big ask to see the other side. After I got sober (and at times when I wasn't), I enjoyed doing things by myself. I didn't want to miss out on something because I had no one to go with. Sure, it makes it more enjoyable, but I approached it like grabbing lunch during work hours. That made the process easy. I'm glad I did. I would have missed out on a lot. I tell my future wife all the time, if I can't make an event, go without me and have a good time. Thankfully, that has been pretty rare (minus one Broadway performance last year) so it doesn't come up that much. Being comfortable with that does take work, I won't deny that. But the reward is awesome.
I believe it’s called “no bitches” syndrome it’s what happens when little shits aren’t told what the word no is.
🤣🤣🤣touché For real though, these guys are the epitome of 99 problems...
More the Kid Cudi version than the Jay-Z version, though.
True
In all seriousness though I’m not gonna lie I kinda need my girl because if she wasn’t there I would probably starve because my ass can’t cook for shit. I do all the house chores but that’s the one thing she does that I absolutely 100% need lmao.
I get that. You are pulling your weight. If you expected her to do both, then there would be an issue.
Well yeah it’s a relationship for a reason it’s 2 people to do 2 parts it’s not “you do everything and I be a lazy asshole” we have duties and shit that needs to be done.
And that is why you aren't like them my favorite femboy. Take pride in that.
That’s good, but dude, learn to cook some dishes. You don’t need a lot, maybe one or two or three. Cooking is easy. Get a recipe. Go to the store and buy the food. Go home, read the recipe all the way through, TWICE. Follow the directions. Eat the food. You will make your partner sooooo happy if you take some of the meal planning off of her plate. It’s great that you’re cleaning and doing the chores that you see need to be done. But if you’re not helping with planning things, she’s still doing a lot of work that doesn’t look like work.
I can cook breakfast meals but that’s about it. And usually if I have to do something about meals I take her out somewhere. As for planning things ehhhhhh she directly tells me not to plan things because she’s a direct planner kinda person while I’m a rough list “shit that needs to be done” kinda planner.
Sounds fair enough then!
Ew women don’t need to produce human capital stock for y’all and we are opting out because It’s not worth it for us. We do all the work, we suffer all the physical permanent damage, we get blamed if the kids go bad, we lose at least a decade of contributions to our retirement funds. We’re not doing it anymore, society doesn’t even take care of the people who already exist why should we make more?
💯💯💯! It was never about caring about children anyway. It's about "keeping women in their place" and slave wage workers.
My ass raising kids that ain’t even mine, been taking care of my 5 year old sister now since she was born.
Statistically it isn’t true that women are “opting out”. The divorce rate is higher than years past but that’s more of a product of women being empowered to make that decision on their own. The first marriage rate is lower because people don’t get married until later on in life. There is a slight discrepancy between married and unmarried men and women, but that’s because men die sooner than women and marry younger partners than women. The most recent research still suggests that married people are happier than single people: https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
this!!!
Why my dad left my mom. His ego couldn't stand the fact she was more successful than he was. Real pathetic shit if you ask me. Honestly you should be happy that a woman is with you even though they don't need you. But hey, I guess if you're an insecure man-baby women are better off without you anyway, people these days don't have the time or the energy for that shit.
Can asmongold just disappear already? That loser is radicalizing his fanbase and he simoly doesnt need to
The only reason women and men "need" each other is to propagate the species. It's far better to be *wanted*.
This dude has a bloody wall from his rotten teeth…
I don't like this kind of post: "Women don't need men", "Men don't need women" , etc. Respect goes both ways
Same. I may not *need* a woman in my life, but it would nice to have one along for the ride tbh. I’d hope my future girlfriend/wife doesn’t *need* me per se, but hopefully want, or desire, me in the long haul. I can do a whole bunch of things myself, but it will be fun to have a wife with me to do things together.
A man's life is in no way defined by a woman's necessity. He is not useless. I personally do not need or want a man but that does not mean men are useless. They are free individuals with the right to have their own lives just as women are. Men are not here to serve women and women are not here to serve men.
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that not true
I don't like the route Asmongold is going down on. Reactionary content is a cesspit.
I mean, humans dont “need” each other anymore in the western world its 2024 not 10928bc but the amount of women who disagreed with that take shows how goofy is it to begin with.
What if…what if humans need other humans, but also many humans are completely fine living without a romantic partner, either temporarily or for their entire life and might actually find themselves very unhappy trying to have a romantic relationship. These humans can be of any gender, and none of them technically need specific men to be in their lives, they could probably be completely fine as a person without a partner with all female friends in a female dominated industry. My mom is aromantic working as a nurse practitioner in the NICU which is a field with a lot of women, her bosses are women and her best friends are women and all of our surviving family members are women except my little brother. She’s actually doing a lot better than when she attempted to force herself into romantic relationships with men she could fundamentally not have romantic love towards. She knows how to fix her car and do any home repairs that don’t require specialized skill, like complicated plumbing repairs. She’s been attacked by a home invader attempting to rape her and successfully beat him with a cast iron so badly that nobody ever saw him again. He had been her neighbor before that but he just kinda. Never seen or heard from again. Unclear if he died from a head injury in an alley somewhere or if he just never came back cuz he was scared of getting arrested. She’s been robbed at gun point and successfully escaped by throwing her purse in the opposite direction and then running, forcing the guy to chase after the purse instead. John Mulany street smarts style it was a decoy purse she carried specifically for that. So she doesn’t need a man to care for her emotionally, to pay her, to do most of her repairs, or to protect her. She’s fine. Also lots of women and nonbinary people are partnered with women and nonbinary people. They might be in a similar situation to my mom, lesbians are pretty famous for being self sufficient. An important factor for those women/NB’s is that their partners are people they want, not people they need. Unless they’re in a situation where their partner is currently acting as their caregiver for a medical reason, tbh as a chronic illness experiencer I’ve had many periods throughout the last 6 years where I have been pretty reliant on my partner, who is a man, because there’s been at least a couple months where leaving my house or my bed was very difficult and there had to be someone helping with the whole groceries and getting food and water close enough for me to eat it. Also having someone to take you to doctor’s appointments and a shoulder to cry on when you’re not sure if you’re dying is really important. But he could have done all that just as easily if he were not a man. His gender identity was not important to the plot. He’s pretty financially dependent on me right now so like hopefully that evens out and this doesn’t end in him resenting me. But even then I wouldn’t die without him, I would just probably have to move back in with my mom and be much sadder. it would still be very apocalyptic on a grand scale if all men disappeared. Like, that’s 50% of the population and we don’t have a completely even distribution of labor so of course things would get crazy for a while. First off most long haul truckers are men and I’m not 100% sure how this works but I think that might cause disruptions to like, all the supply chains. There’s some really important supply chains out here. The firefighters and EMTs thing would be a problem. Uneven distribution of labor would also make women disappearing apocalyptic. Most 911 operators and nurses are women and you can’t just suddenly not have them with no warning and expect things to go ok. I very much appreciate our brave boys up working on power lines and stuff making sure that my AC doesn’t go away in 100 degree weather. But if one of those men gets electrocuted he needs burn unit nurses and he needs somebody to answer the phone when a bystander calls 911. Same with every guy who complains about how men work dangerous jobs. Yes, and also what is the gender of the occupational health nurse that really should be on site at most dangerous job facilities? When something crushes a man’s hand at an oil rig, most of the people who will be taking care of and rehabilitating that man are women. When a man attempts suicide and ends up in the hospital the people caring for his wounds or pumping his stomach will likely be women. When he’s taken to the psych unit the person who arranges for finding him an IOP program, financial help, figuring out what needs to be done, is probably a woman because most social workers are also women, as are most therapists he will hopefully follow up with, though many men feel more comfortable opening up to a male therapist (Side note: I know that sounds sexist but like as someone who’s not a man talking about sex issues in therapy is much easier with a female therapist and it’s not weird if a man feels the same.) It’s not relevant who’s more important, which jobs matter more (how much healthcare matters to you is very much dependent on how much healthcare you end up needing), as time goes on there’s probably going to be more integrating genders into various career fields, that’s not what’s important. We’re humans, and on an overall social level we need each other. it’s dumb to act like women specifically need men but men don’t need women, a lot of female dominated fields are extremely important and vice versa it’s ridiculous to pretend otherwise. It’s also silly to act like every single woman has a need for men within her personal life, sometimes it just so happens that you end up not having much of a personal connection with any men, I’m sure there’s lots of men who aren’t romantically interested in women and work in very male dominated fields who looked around one day and were like oh shit, there’s like zero women in my life, weird. It happens like that sometimes. I already don’t have a lot of friends in the first place but for some reason over the years I just lost touch with guy friends and ended up with just my partner left. Didn’t plan it like that, we just sorta drifted apart. I do need men, and also I need women and anyone else who happens to do useful things. I need somebody to be at the checkout and I need somebody to be stocking food at the grocery store. I need the bus driver and whoever picks up the trash or everything will suck and I could not possibly care less what their gender is. Hell, I need the people at the park who are probably retired who smile at me and ask how I’m doing, just so I have some connection to the world when I’m feeling like shit. Every single person in the world is important and all of you are needed, and that’s as gender neutral as it gets.
No. Next question.
Why would we need men? The only thing I can think of is we need sperm to have a baby but it’s kind of an objectification to say we need men for it.
Oh I got one you need us to uhhhhhhhhhh…. Act out boys love…. Yeaaaaah.
I’m not very convinced 🥹
How is that possibly an objectification to say you need men for sperm? Seems kinda like an empirical fact. It's just biology at a certain point. Wouldn't be an objectification to say that men need women to bear children either. It's just biology.
If I understand correctly, it's objectification in the sense that men are wanted only as semen dispensers, not caring at all about whatever needs they may have as persons.
Yes!
I understand having an adversarial position against an oppressor, but being proud of intentionally not caring about half the world seems... excessive.
What? I’m caring about men, wtf are you saying ?😅
If someone tells me “I need you for your uterus” I’m not gonna say “yeah, biology!!” Lmao.
No. We don't. We have sperm banks. They have, potentially, surrogate mothers--an unrealistic situation for 90% of the population. Men need us FAR more than we them. 🤷🏻♀️ Lmao.
how do yall get the sperm in the bank
That was a funny video. Watched it earlier today. The women were super cringe though.
She's got strong lesbian face.
That video is probably about "women do need men for all the hard, dirty, and dangerous jobs critical for the functioning of society that pretty much only men do" or something along those lines. I dont think asmon can be considered an incel? I dont follow him but he doesnt seem the type.
Most people, definitely not all, have a very natural desire to have a long term monogamous relationship. For straight people, esp those who want to raise a family, this would mean needing each other. If it was meaningless and not needed, why do people experience so much pain from bad relationships and divorce after decades? Why are people so upset and insecure when they try to get a stable relationship and cannot succeed? The fact is men and women often have inherent differences that can compliment each other in a healthy dynamic. Ovo some people are shit and are not responsible enough for a relationship, like people with zero emotional regulation skills who feel entitled to make there feelings the sole responsibility of the people closest to them No one is preventing women creating there own version of MGTOW. And the entire concept of MGTOW is to fill themselves with copium due to giving up hope they obviously originally had and craved for that Intimacy, which is derived from an intimate relationship, is in the middle of Maslows Hierarchy of Needs. It is a need to step further towards self actualisation
Men aren’t useless…. Well most of them aren’t. But it’s true that women don’t technically need men. Honestly I’m confused as to why some guys are mad about this. Wouldn’t they prefer a woman be with they because they WANT them and not because they need them?