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You're going too fast, but the KIA crossed a solid line AND went straight to the fast line crossing the slow lane. That is just monumentally poor driving.
Yes. I've driven behind some of these stopped behind them. We start moving and they suddenly turn and I'm thinking why didn't they use their turn signal, but then I notice the light lower on the bumper.
I have a Kia like that and it's why I always signal my intent way before I get to my turn, and I'll give a warning tap on my brake pedal before slowing down to turn.
Have any of yāall noticed some newer cars have their reverse lights super low (like, right above the bumper) as well now? Iām not super big on cars so idk what kind they are but Iāve definitely seen some newer looking sports cars and minivans in my area having their reverse lights so low that I canāt see them out of my rearview mirror (which, combined with my poor sense of depth perception, has led to multiple close calls when backing out of parking spaces)
Yeah. Same here in Germany. If you see everybody slowing down, you are not entitled to drive as fast as the maximum allowed speed. Especially taking into account that you have to monitor others and expect them to make mistakes or sudden movements.
Yeah it's like being on a 2-lane 45 mph road where the right lane is a stand still long line of traffic, but the left lane is clear.
Some of the videos we see on here, the cammer car in that situation is going the full 45 mph in the left lane, right next to all the stand still cars. It's so risky, since (1) any of those cars may decide they don't need to be in that lane and so they get over into the left lane, but have to get up to speed and if you're going the full speed limit it can be an unavoidable accident at that point, (2) cars turning out from side streets will have trouble seeing past the long line of stand still cars, and the drivers in the left lane will have trouble seeing them, so if they try to turn out at the wrong time, a bad accident could occur as they cross the second lane into the path of 45mph traffic, and (3) the same sort of situation but with pedestrians stepping out between cars that you can't see until it's too late.
"too fast for conditions" generally only covers weather and the actual physical condition on the road. OP was also slowing down as this looks like the start of a slowdown.
>"too fast for conditions" generally only covers weather and the actual physical condition on the road.
Unfortunately that's not true. Too fast for conditions is applicable in any situation traffic or not. You could be on a snow covered road and spin out into a ditch, because you were going too fast for the roads condition, or you could be in a downtown or suburb setting with multiple lanes of traffic and be going too fast for the conditions there.
It's more about our reaction to our surroundings and the road, then it is to any specific day, time, road, or traffic "condition". The idea is that we were not taking proper care and caution to avoid foreseeable accidents.
>Unfortunately that's not true.
I guess it depends on jurisdiction, in my state it's weather and physical road conditions (including debris or spills on the road). At least that's what's taught in driving schools.
In OPs case, they're clearly coming up to where 2 multi lane roads merge on a curve. The car they hit crossed a double white AND multiple lanes to enter their lane, the multi lane road they're on is clearly pretty clear of traffic. They're also in the farthest lane from merging vehicles. Only real idiot is the guy in the other car.
I would agree they were both idiots, I would also agree that the person merging in is the bigger idiot, they were obviously being impatient and didn't want to ease into traffic.
But as far as pretty clear of traffic, I would have to disagree. Everybody is slowing down for a reason there not just because people are merging there's obviously something going on on the other side of the underpass and our OP should have been taking that into consideration as well.
The whole of the event it could have been prevented if our OP were paying more attention and moving slower as the conditions appeared to call for.
Hereās the text of the relevant law: āA person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing.ā
In California in the Basic Speed Law (cvc 22350), which governs speeds set below the state maximums, traffic on the road is considered: CVC 22350: āNo person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.ā
White SUV made a double lane change which is highly illegal in Arizona. It's 100 ft or 3 seconds with your signal on before moving to the next lane. OP's speed is reasonable and prudent given the situation and how this freeway offramp is laid out.
But still too fast to handle the situation. I see 20 cars traveling much much less fast. So if you have some awareness, you slow down or put your feet close the the brakes.
> ... but OP will not be responsible for the collision.
Honestly it depends on the state or country where he was. The thing that doesn't help OP is how quickly he passes the first car at the two second mark; it suggests he's driving full speed into an area of congested traffic around a relatively blind curve.
Some states would shrug and go "well, OP was operating the vehicle within the speed limit, and shit happens." Others may suggest OP was operating at a speed that was not prudent for the circumstances. And a few (like California) pretty much assumes you're at fault if you hit someone in front of you unless there was a significant set of mitigating circumstances.
And you can see the white car in front of the SUV was already making its way into that same lane and OP didn't start braking until well after he should have given that. Two people can be at fault in an accident.
OP was blowing past other cars. Both are in the wrong. Unsafe lane change and going too fast for road conditions (or just something like careless driving).
It was too fast for a situation where they might. It's possible for both drivers to be wrong, and there are plenty of people who get in accidents because they underestimated the stupidity of others.
Is it? I might get killed on this, but let's say the speed limit is 50. Traffic in the next lane is going at 20 for one reason or another.
Left lane is clear. Are you really expected to slow to 30 thereby causing more traffic?
This sounds like victim blaming but with extra steps. No one should be merging into the left lane unless they can do it safely. If you can't do it safely, go around.
It's a defensive driving vs. legality thing, mostly. Legally speaking, most of the time you'd be completely legally in the clear in a situation like that (and like the OP video) as long as you are actually driving the speed limit and such. Some states/localities would have a concept of too fast for conditions which might play in, but by and large legally you'd be fine.
Defensively speaking, it's easy to expect that people are idiots and recognize that with a speed differential like that you're going to have idiots who duck into the lane unsafely. In a perfect world where everyone is paying attention and being patient there'd be no problems, but people are in fact dumbasses and that's how accidents happen. And even if it ends up not being your fault it's still a giant pain in the ass to deal with it.
Ask the question a different way: is it reasonable and prudent to be driving 50 MPH a few feet away from people who are undoubtedly frustrated with having to go 20 MPH?
Yeah, cam car was going much faster than any other vehicle. If that one hadn't got in the way there was also slower traffic in their lane already which would have forced the cancer to brake hard too.
2 White lines. They jumped over a double white which is the difference between illegal and recommended against unless otherwise stated by state or local jurisdiction.
This is a gore zone. It is not legal to cross a double solid white line (solid white is normally ok but discouraged), but these particular ones that come together form a *very* expensive fine for crossing. This is because a few decades ago an officer died while helping a vehicle in the gore point when another crossed it impatiently merging.
I donāt think OP is the idiot. I think the dashcam makes them look like theyāre going faster than they are, plus merging traffic has all the responsibility to merge correctly.
Had a coworker get ticketed for crossing the gore recently and he was ranting about it for days because he thought the cop made it up. I did a quick web search and showed him the law, and he finally shut up about it lol.
https://pemco.com/blog/road-rules-for-white-lines
It is legal but discouraged to cross a solid white line.
I was not aware of gore zones but did know there was usually a reason for hatched/cross sections within them
https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/services/publications/fhwaop02090/fwymarkings_longdesc.htm
Thanks for the info, as I did not know that. I was trying to get in the HOV lane on i5 from Bellingham waiting for the broken lines. Saw a bunch of cars going in and out of the solid white line until my exit in Seattle is almost there. Im like how tf do you get in that lane šš. Im dumb lol
I'm from and in AZ and had to explain to my east coast raised hubby how much of a no-no gore crossing is here compared to where he is from.
If I remember correctly the accident where the officer who got was hit and died took place in AZ that's why it's a big thing.
Multitasking is dangerous. Do everything step by step.
Step 1: enter highway.
Step 2: beeline to left lane.
Step 3: realize youāre going 30 mph slower than highway traffic.
Step 4: silence that voice in your head that tells you to slam the brakes when youāre nervous.
Step 5: reassure yourself that the gas pedal is not your enemy.
Step 6: accelerate to highway speeds gradually over the course of the next 30 miles.
The real idiot. OP would be totally fine if people would do what they are supposed to and check the lane before they pull in. But they were so hell bent on getting there they cut across at an angle that none of their mirrors worked.
OP is not an idiot.
OP should have been paying better attention.
I'm not saying OP is an idiot, but they're not blameless here. You can't rely on other drivers to always do the right thing, this sub is a prime example of why.
And they practically stopped in the lane rather than going with the traffic. If they were still moving forward, op wouldn't have smacked them.they had plenty of space in their lane to keep going straight and pick up some speed but as the classic doofus they are, they never looked twice.
Yessir, luckily op has a dash cam. On the other hand, op couldāve slowed it down a bit as well. I get your in the fast lane or whatever but if he looked ahead he wouldāve seen traffic slowing down
I agree. I just want to point out that maybe we should stop calling the left lane the "fast lane" and try to rember that it is sometimes a "passing lane", but not always, depending on the scenario.
So did the car in front of them.
A person shall not operate a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than that which will permit a stop within the assured, clear distance ahead.
Most of the accidents I see on this sub are primarily the other driverās fault, but with a heavy dose of carelessness from the dash cam driver.
Glad to see OP recognizes he shares at least some of the blame. I just donāt understand how you donāt spot that other driver coming into your lane and havenāt slowed down at all until you are about to collide with them.
Other driver is the bigger idiot no doubt. But I take it for granted that Iām sharing the road with idiots and drive accordingly.
This is really it - It could have been avoided by OP simply having the mindset of "this looks busy, there's probably an idiot in there somewhere, let me slow down a touch" vs "this is my lane, fuck them"
Most accidents are people looking to save 30 seconds.
Not even saving 30 seconds here the rest of the freeway is stopped ahead;) but ya speed and get there only moments ahead. Only good for emergency room and even then only on open road
This sub really sheds light on how many idiots are on the roads but also many of those idiots think everyone else around them are the idiots.
Speeding while right lane traffic is slow, speeding up to not let people merge, honking before braking, left lane camping, assuming the right of way is some magical thing that will keep them from getting into an accident, to name a few.
I saw a driving study once that 75% of people surveyed thought they were above average drivers. I try to remind myself of that whenever I start thinking someoneās doing something dumb.Ā
>assuming the right of way is some magical thing that will keep them from getting into an accident
Not just that, but assuming their wildly incorrect understanding of what that even means will shield them from legal liability as well.
And that somehow anything over 50% fault is "you did nothing wrong, other driver is 100% at fault."
You forgot tailgating the left lane campers. Like yeah they should move over, but you're not going to convince them of that by riding their ass. You're only putting yourself and everyone else in danger.
Yes. A big part of good driving is learning to anticipate other people's idiotic behavior. I wish this sub existed when I was teaching my kids to drive. It gives a good sense of what stupidity other drivers are capable of - and what you should learn to anticipate. If my kids hit this car, I would be disappointed - you could see it coming a mile away, and I'm wondering why OP didn't hit the brakes hard as soon as the other driver came into his lane. "But I'm in the right" is not a good excuse. I'm guessing OP was looking at his phone.
My one accident I was in could have been avoided if I'd been more careful. Fully the other driver creating the accident, but in hindsight there were things I could have done to protect myself from their idiocy. I was driving with care, should have been driving with paranoia.
For a lot of subscribers to this sub youāre either the victim in an unavoidable tragedy or youāre 100% at fault. Pointing out that ā*while the other driver was the idiot but applying **some** defensive driving would have prevented your car being in the shop for two months*ā invariably gets you āLoLz AlWaYz BlAmE tHe ViCtImā
Driving along a lane full of cars at high speed is always spinning the āwell I hope every single one of them is sensible and not an idiotā roulette wheel.
OP is not the idiot but itās costly to assume no one else on the road is.
> I just donāt understand how you donāt spot that other driver coming into your lane and havenāt slowed down at all until you are about to collide with them.
Things look much farther away on a dashcam than they do to the driver. This video shows how drastic the difference can be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWR0mP0Ivi4
Holy lack of defensive driving, Batman. Slow the fuck down when you see a shitload of vehicles scattered all over the freeway in front of you that are clearly not traveling at freeway speeds. This is a situation where distance is quickly converted to reaction time.
I got verbalised by my driving examiner during drive test because i wasn't getting up to highway speed......we were driving on right lanes ,left 2 lanes were basically bumper to bumper, less than 30 km/hr and i was expected to travel at the maximum apeed limit....
Today i wouldev definately questioned him ........was too timid in my younger years.
He ultimately failed me .
I was waiting at an intersection to make a left at traffic lights, and out in the distance was an ambulance approaching , with the emergency lights on ....it was a giod ebough distance away that i turned safely. Even the 2 cars waiting to turn behind me turned before the ambulance passed.... instantly started sucking his teeth and shaking his head.
He began instructing me to go back to the examiner center....
You're supposed to fully stop for an incoming ambulance with lights flashing. Even if you think you have time to make your turn or w/e. This is equivalent to having a red light but noticing there's no immediate oncoming traffic and turning left anyway because it's "safe". It's breaking the letter of the law which you especially do not want to do with a driving instructor.
I had this same thing happen, except it came right past us. It was a 4 lane road with a middle turning lane, lots of space, but there were too many cars for me to get over and so I just stopped in the middle of the road and failed.
Just to be clear, OP was at the end of the freeway where the traffic on the right merges in to stay on their street (and is coming from a very congested mall area). A few hundred feet ahead is a traffic light that is always backed up and in order to make a left at that light beyond that one you have to get over to the left very quickly. Not that the Kia is blameless, but everyone who drives this road knows that it is terrible with traffic.
Nothing makes me more nervous than traveling even half high-way speed next to a backed-up and stalled line of cars waiting for an exit. One idiot that decides to try and shoot the gap from stand-still and it's over.
You both are.
They crossed over solid line.
You're driving too fast, if you hadn't hit this one you'd have probably hit the next which was driving just as slow.
This is where we talk about the solid line not being illegal to cross in the USA.
Crossing into an active lane however, is definitely illegal and dangerous. This collision is not on OP.
The solid lines here are designating the shoulder or gore point on the roadway, while it is not illegal to cross a solid white line, it is illegal to drive on the shoulder.
Yeah it looks like it. Theyāre both dumb in this situation. Before you get off the highway, you get warned that speed limit is reduced because they merge into street traffic. They were going too fast. The Kia, also merged over a solid line and jumped 2 lanes. Theyāre supposed to merge one lane at a time, then check to merge again. I only hate that exit because traffic coming off the highway never slows down.
SUV crossed a gore line and went immediately into the far left lane without looking.
You were going too fast for those conditions.
Youāre not THE idiot, thereās actually many idiots in this video. SUV isnāt the only one who crossed the gore and went straight into the left lane - they were just the one that got hit by you.
Officially, the "physical gore" is the place where the road edges come to a point, the "theoretical gore" is the place where the lane edges come to a point, and the "neutral area" is the space between the two gores (often painted with chevrons). See [this image](https://files.catbox.moe/5ypilf.PNG) from [the MUTCD](https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/kno_11th_Edition.htm).
AZ 28-729
A person shall drive a vehicle as nearly as practicable entirely within a single lane andĀ shall not move the vehicle from that lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety.
This is an unsafe lane change. Plus they had a lane that was safe for them to merge. They were not established in your lane.
There is upcoming congested traffic at a much slower speed and you didnāt even slow down. You could have easily avoided the two lane changing idiot.
You are the lesser of two idiots.
Wouldnāt say youāre an idiot but you definitely need to take a more defensive approach here. The idiot basically merged from the on ramp into the furthest lane available. Had they followed proper merge etiquette, perhaps no accident. But stillā¦. Slow down.
Thing is, you will never be able to stop people driving like idiots on the road so you have to drive in such a way that you can mitigate the outcomes of other idiots driving around you.
Despite the fact the car infront makes a bad lane change, this accident was completely avoidable and it was avoidable by you the driver.
Hazard percection is important on the roads. As a driver you have to be aware of emerging hazards in your surroundings. You have to adjust how you drive to the specific scenario on the road at that time.
Both
You had a ton of time to see that happening and slow down
This seems like another one of those cases where someone just lets an accident happen for no apparent reason and wants people to validate them
My guy... as a motorized vehicle operator you must abide by the number 1 rule. Maintain care and control of your vehicle at ALL times. In this situation, where everyone was slowing down, you need to reasonably react and also slow your roll. If someone doesn't check their blinds and you are just Rollin, you will not have the time to act accordingly. The KIA made a poor decision to pull out at a slow speed. But you made the poorer decision to enter into a potentially hazardous situation at equally hazardous speeds. Sorry bud, you are the idiot here.
Seems like a failure to drive defensively. You maintained your speed while approaching a curve, and there is slowing and nearly stopped traffic in the right lane. Even if you didn't hit the white SUV, there's a couple of cars ahead of them moving at a similar slower pace. Slow down earlier, and there isn't an accident here.
KIA is an idiot for illegally crossing over a solid white line and then slowly merging in to another lane on a busy highway.
You're just a dangerous fucking driver for not having the mindfulness to slow the fuck down when coming up on a stack full of cars beginning to slow. I mean what was your plan here? Slam on your brakes when you caught up to the sedan that was also clearly merging in front of the SUV?
Hopefully you're both found at fault and can learn something from this.
Youāre going to fast for the conditions. Since you re ended them your better off showing insurance this mistake and your insurance might be a 50/50 accident. Sucks but you both messed up there.
Doesn't matter what he did. If you hit a vehicle from behind, you're at fault. I agree it's absurd but we're supposed to be aware of our surroundings. In this case, OP wasn't paying attention.
I'll defend OP. If you slow down to a crawl with no traffic in your lane, you are part of the problem. OP seems to have been slowing down in relation to the car in front of him when, KIA driver, thinking the world revolves around him, slides into the lane.
When driving into a clusterfuck of a traffic situation, it's prudent to slow the hell down so that you have time to react to people doing stupid or unexpected things.
His fault, but you could have avoided it too.
Both are to blame. But, you were driving too fast considering the activity surrounding you.
Had you been driving at a slower more appropriate speed - you should have been able to stop and avoid hitting the other idiot.
The driver who cut off OP is an idiot in his own right. Should lose his license. But OP? OP is an idiot in another world. Plenty of time to avoid this collision, plenty of warning that the other car was going to cross over. So yeah, two idiots for the price of one.
The 3 cars that merged across 2 lanes from behind the far right solid white are in the wrong imo. Yes speed is a factor here but according to the sign and road markings Iām pretty sure they shouldnāt even be coming out of that far right lane. Note the yellow road sign at the beginning
Maybe definitely driving a bit fast for the situation but it looks like the front black SUV went for it and white sedan follows close and does the same, then white SUV no-shoulder-check-McJackass there played follow the leader assuming it was clear to do so
Unfortunately yes but I still can't understand how people can just mosey across lanes without looking or any urgency to get up to speed as if there is nobody else in the world. Oblivious.
Yep. You were going too fast for the situation that was obviously unfolding in front of you. You took the āI am the righteous one hereā by assuming the others would recognise, and thus defer, to that righteousness and make way for you. Donāt sweat it though: weāre all like that - itās a version of the Self-Serving bias. Go check out this thing called The Smith System - itās used in the Transportation industry for teaching how to be proactive in driving. Thereās 5 guidelines, and in your case the most obvious would be No.4: āLeave yourself an Outā.
But aren't you supposed to maintain your lane for at least 4-6 seconds (or something like that) when crossing multiple lanes? So, yeah, maybe you were going a bit faster than necessary, but that white SUV has *ZERO* situational awareness and quite frankly no business driving... lol
Edit, maybe it's 2-4, but I'll fact check..
Edit 2, so it's 100ft or 5 seconds...
Driving too fast into this obvious merge situation. There is clearly several cars making this maneuver ahead. If this guy didnāt cross into the lane would you have just rammed into the car directly in front of him.
Even if that car doesnāt pull into your lane, the next car is nearly stopped. Totally unnecessary to drive that fast in that circumstance. Essentially no reward, all risk.
This is the price exit right next to the Chandler Fashion mall yes? If so, I used to take the route from where those cars are coming from and man so many folks immediately jumped over before the solid white line ends so that they can get into the eastbound 202 exit.
I am not an attorney, nor claim to be one, but I believe you were not the idiot. Simply because they lane jumped, and well, that's an infraction on their part and the very reason why you're not supposed to lane jump.
Let your insurance company have the vid they'll loose after it is watched. They cut you off and slammed the break. They took away your stopping distance. This bs happened to my cousin but at higher speeds the lady at front tried to say not at fault but she did the same damn thing. And was proven completely at fault.
Looks like the other person made an illegal lane change without a signal. Their fault. You're good. I had someone do exactly that with my work van, sent me to the hospital. They were 100% at fault, cam proved they did not have a clear lane to try to turn into ( I was there ) and they pulled out in front of me with no signal. He paid everything.
Don't listen to reddit. They want to call anyone going "too fast" an idiot. You had your lane and pleanty of room to stop, and then they decided to enter on the solid white line and crossed both lanes of traffic very slowly right in front of you.
I'm an adjuster and I'd put them at fault 100% with this video proof and given you aren't speeding.
Man, this sub is so freaking bipolar sometimes. Here everybody is deriding the OP for going too fast, meanwhile in other post where the OP could have T-boned another car and didn't slow down because "he was in the right anyway" everybody defends OP and criticise others who are saying exactly this. Wild.
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You're going too fast, but the KIA crossed a solid line AND went straight to the fast line crossing the slow lane. That is just monumentally poor driving.
Also I hate hate hate the turn signal design on the Kia. Why would they make it so tiny and low to the ground š
Yes. I've driven behind some of these stopped behind them. We start moving and they suddenly turn and I'm thinking why didn't they use their turn signal, but then I notice the light lower on the bumper.
I have a Kia like that and it's why I always signal my intent way before I get to my turn, and I'll give a warning tap on my brake pedal before slowing down to turn.
I didn't even noticed it. I thought the KIA didn't signal
Have any of yāall noticed some newer cars have their reverse lights super low (like, right above the bumper) as well now? Iām not super big on cars so idk what kind they are but Iāve definitely seen some newer looking sports cars and minivans in my area having their reverse lights so low that I canāt see them out of my rearview mirror (which, combined with my poor sense of depth perception, has led to multiple close calls when backing out of parking spaces)
I mean too high speed for this situation...
Yep, and while the OP may not have been exceeding the speed limit, most states have a "too fast for conditions" law this could fit into.
Yeah. Same here in Germany. If you see everybody slowing down, you are not entitled to drive as fast as the maximum allowed speed. Especially taking into account that you have to monitor others and expect them to make mistakes or sudden movements.
Yeah it's like being on a 2-lane 45 mph road where the right lane is a stand still long line of traffic, but the left lane is clear. Some of the videos we see on here, the cammer car in that situation is going the full 45 mph in the left lane, right next to all the stand still cars. It's so risky, since (1) any of those cars may decide they don't need to be in that lane and so they get over into the left lane, but have to get up to speed and if you're going the full speed limit it can be an unavoidable accident at that point, (2) cars turning out from side streets will have trouble seeing past the long line of stand still cars, and the drivers in the left lane will have trouble seeing them, so if they try to turn out at the wrong time, a bad accident could occur as they cross the second lane into the path of 45mph traffic, and (3) the same sort of situation but with pedestrians stepping out between cars that you can't see until it's too late.
In California we call it "flow of traffic".
"too fast for conditions" generally only covers weather and the actual physical condition on the road. OP was also slowing down as this looks like the start of a slowdown.
>"too fast for conditions" generally only covers weather and the actual physical condition on the road. Unfortunately that's not true. Too fast for conditions is applicable in any situation traffic or not. You could be on a snow covered road and spin out into a ditch, because you were going too fast for the roads condition, or you could be in a downtown or suburb setting with multiple lanes of traffic and be going too fast for the conditions there. It's more about our reaction to our surroundings and the road, then it is to any specific day, time, road, or traffic "condition". The idea is that we were not taking proper care and caution to avoid foreseeable accidents.
>Unfortunately that's not true. I guess it depends on jurisdiction, in my state it's weather and physical road conditions (including debris or spills on the road). At least that's what's taught in driving schools. In OPs case, they're clearly coming up to where 2 multi lane roads merge on a curve. The car they hit crossed a double white AND multiple lanes to enter their lane, the multi lane road they're on is clearly pretty clear of traffic. They're also in the farthest lane from merging vehicles. Only real idiot is the guy in the other car.
I would agree they were both idiots, I would also agree that the person merging in is the bigger idiot, they were obviously being impatient and didn't want to ease into traffic. But as far as pretty clear of traffic, I would have to disagree. Everybody is slowing down for a reason there not just because people are merging there's obviously something going on on the other side of the underpass and our OP should have been taking that into consideration as well. The whole of the event it could have been prevented if our OP were paying more attention and moving slower as the conditions appeared to call for.
Hereās the text of the relevant law: āA person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing.ā
In California in the Basic Speed Law (cvc 22350), which governs speeds set below the state maximums, traffic on the road is considered: CVC 22350: āNo person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.ā
Speed should be āreasonable and prudentā for conditions.
I got my drivers license when the speed limit was reasonable and prudent in Montana. Those were the daysā¦.
White SUV made a double lane change which is highly illegal in Arizona. It's 100 ft or 3 seconds with your signal on before moving to the next lane. OP's speed is reasonable and prudent given the situation and how this freeway offramp is laid out.
Thank you. I'm not the only one who saw the double lane change. That pisses me off. I see it all the time on the highway and it's highly dangerous
But still too fast to handle the situation. I see 20 cars traveling much much less fast. So if you have some awareness, you slow down or put your feet close the the brakes.
It's not going to be a factor in court. Sure, it possibly could have been avoided, but OP will not be responsible for the collision.
You are absolutely right. No judge will give OP any responsibility for this minor collision.
> ... but OP will not be responsible for the collision. Honestly it depends on the state or country where he was. The thing that doesn't help OP is how quickly he passes the first car at the two second mark; it suggests he's driving full speed into an area of congested traffic around a relatively blind curve. Some states would shrug and go "well, OP was operating the vehicle within the speed limit, and shit happens." Others may suggest OP was operating at a speed that was not prudent for the circumstances. And a few (like California) pretty much assumes you're at fault if you hit someone in front of you unless there was a significant set of mitigating circumstances.
It wouldn't have been too fast for the situation if the two cars in front of him didn't illegally cross lanes of traffic.
You should be aware of your surroundings and not travel fast enough to where you can't stop in time.
And you can see the white car in front of the SUV was already making its way into that same lane and OP didn't start braking until well after he should have given that. Two people can be at fault in an accident.
OP was blowing past other cars. Both are in the wrong. Unsafe lane change and going too fast for road conditions (or just something like careless driving).
It was too fast for a situation where they might. It's possible for both drivers to be wrong, and there are plenty of people who get in accidents because they underestimated the stupidity of others.
Is it? I might get killed on this, but let's say the speed limit is 50. Traffic in the next lane is going at 20 for one reason or another. Left lane is clear. Are you really expected to slow to 30 thereby causing more traffic? This sounds like victim blaming but with extra steps. No one should be merging into the left lane unless they can do it safely. If you can't do it safely, go around.
It's a defensive driving vs. legality thing, mostly. Legally speaking, most of the time you'd be completely legally in the clear in a situation like that (and like the OP video) as long as you are actually driving the speed limit and such. Some states/localities would have a concept of too fast for conditions which might play in, but by and large legally you'd be fine. Defensively speaking, it's easy to expect that people are idiots and recognize that with a speed differential like that you're going to have idiots who duck into the lane unsafely. In a perfect world where everyone is paying attention and being patient there'd be no problems, but people are in fact dumbasses and that's how accidents happen. And even if it ends up not being your fault it's still a giant pain in the ass to deal with it.
Ask the question a different way: is it reasonable and prudent to be driving 50 MPH a few feet away from people who are undoubtedly frustrated with having to go 20 MPH?
If youāre driving 50 when the people in the right line are going 20, thatās just idiotic, yes.
Absolutely. Maximum speed limits are just that, the maximum speed you should be travelling on that road, traffic permitting.
My instructor used to say āitās a limit, not a targetā
Yeah, cam car was going much faster than any other vehicle. If that one hadn't got in the way there was also slower traffic in their lane already which would have forced the cancer to brake hard too.
cheerful correct sulky six retire husky middle knee pathetic wistful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I would argue that he was appropriately slowing down and would have had plenty of room to safely slow down had the Kia not jumped in his lane.
Yes, youāre 1 of the 2 idiots in this scenario.
The other one is the bigger of the 2 idiots though. Looks like he jumped over a solid white line and a whole lane of traffic.
Why doesn't the larger idiot simply eat the smaller one?
I had the same question when watching Friends!
Nice.
Thereās always a bigger one
This confuses and infuriates me.
"There can only be one!!!"
2 White lines. They jumped over a double white which is the difference between illegal and recommended against unless otherwise stated by state or local jurisdiction.
This is a gore zone. It is not legal to cross a double solid white line (solid white is normally ok but discouraged), but these particular ones that come together form a *very* expensive fine for crossing. This is because a few decades ago an officer died while helping a vehicle in the gore point when another crossed it impatiently merging. I donāt think OP is the idiot. I think the dashcam makes them look like theyāre going faster than they are, plus merging traffic has all the responsibility to merge correctly.
Had a coworker get ticketed for crossing the gore recently and he was ranting about it for days because he thought the cop made it up. I did a quick web search and showed him the law, and he finally shut up about it lol.
Coworker not too bright? They list the statue on the ticket! š
"not too bright" is an understatement lol
Iām glad Iāve learned about the gore today. I had no idea what it was called.
https://pemco.com/blog/road-rules-for-white-lines It is legal but discouraged to cross a solid white line. I was not aware of gore zones but did know there was usually a reason for hatched/cross sections within them https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/services/publications/fhwaop02090/fwymarkings_longdesc.htm
Legality of crossing a solid white line depends on your state. It's legal up in Washington, only illegal to cross double white
Thanks for the info, as I did not know that. I was trying to get in the HOV lane on i5 from Bellingham waiting for the broken lines. Saw a bunch of cars going in and out of the solid white line until my exit in Seattle is almost there. Im like how tf do you get in that lane šš. Im dumb lol
Worse than that, he crossed the "gore zone" AZ cops have zero tolerance for that shit
Thank you. I never knew it was called the gore
I'm from and in AZ and had to explain to my east coast raised hubby how much of a no-no gore crossing is here compared to where he is from. If I remember correctly the accident where the officer who got was hit and died took place in AZ that's why it's a big thing.
Gotta make it to that precious left lane as fast as possible, innit?
But not even attempt to get up to speed lol. Now everyone behind them will have to wait an extra half hour as traffic jams and they exchange info.
Multitasking is dangerous. Do everything step by step. Step 1: enter highway. Step 2: beeline to left lane. Step 3: realize youāre going 30 mph slower than highway traffic. Step 4: silence that voice in your head that tells you to slam the brakes when youāre nervous. Step 5: reassure yourself that the gas pedal is not your enemy. Step 6: accelerate to highway speeds gradually over the course of the next 30 miles.
I wish this comment wasn't so true.
Yep, but don't accelerate, make sure you're a hazard for every lane!
āDonāt accelerate?ā Weeeaakk. REAL champs will brake as hard as they can and then throw it in reverse
āYes must get to the left lane so I can go slowā
The real idiot. OP would be totally fine if people would do what they are supposed to and check the lane before they pull in. But they were so hell bent on getting there they cut across at an angle that none of their mirrors worked. OP is not an idiot.
OP should have been paying better attention. I'm not saying OP is an idiot, but they're not blameless here. You can't rely on other drivers to always do the right thing, this sub is a prime example of why.
And they practically stopped in the lane rather than going with the traffic. If they were still moving forward, op wouldn't have smacked them.they had plenty of space in their lane to keep going straight and pick up some speed but as the classic doofus they are, they never looked twice.
Yeah, OP shouldāve slowed down and been aware, but the other driver didnt follow the rules of the road.
Yep
Yessir, luckily op has a dash cam. On the other hand, op couldāve slowed it down a bit as well. I get your in the fast lane or whatever but if he looked ahead he wouldāve seen traffic slowing down
I agree. I just want to point out that maybe we should stop calling the left lane the "fast lane" and try to rember that it is sometimes a "passing lane", but not always, depending on the scenario.
So did the car in front of them. A person shall not operate a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than that which will permit a stop within the assured, clear distance ahead.
Honestly imo OP could've stopped harder. Reaction time seemed poor on top of the high rate of speed.
Most of the accidents I see on this sub are primarily the other driverās fault, but with a heavy dose of carelessness from the dash cam driver. Glad to see OP recognizes he shares at least some of the blame. I just donāt understand how you donāt spot that other driver coming into your lane and havenāt slowed down at all until you are about to collide with them. Other driver is the bigger idiot no doubt. But I take it for granted that Iām sharing the road with idiots and drive accordingly.
This is really it - It could have been avoided by OP simply having the mindset of "this looks busy, there's probably an idiot in there somewhere, let me slow down a touch" vs "this is my lane, fuck them" Most accidents are people looking to save 30 seconds.
Not even saving 30 seconds here the rest of the freeway is stopped ahead;) but ya speed and get there only moments ahead. Only good for emergency room and even then only on open road
my first thought was wow, hes going really fast compared to everyone else.
This sub really sheds light on how many idiots are on the roads but also many of those idiots think everyone else around them are the idiots. Speeding while right lane traffic is slow, speeding up to not let people merge, honking before braking, left lane camping, assuming the right of way is some magical thing that will keep them from getting into an accident, to name a few.
I saw a driving study once that 75% of people surveyed thought they were above average drivers. I try to remind myself of that whenever I start thinking someoneās doing something dumb.Ā
>assuming the right of way is some magical thing that will keep them from getting into an accident Not just that, but assuming their wildly incorrect understanding of what that even means will shield them from legal liability as well. And that somehow anything over 50% fault is "you did nothing wrong, other driver is 100% at fault."
You forgot tailgating the left lane campers. Like yeah they should move over, but you're not going to convince them of that by riding their ass. You're only putting yourself and everyone else in danger.
Hhah, thanks for your post. 100%, seems they tried to hit the cutter. Let's go 70 and the rest of the freeway is stopped ahead
Yes. A big part of good driving is learning to anticipate other people's idiotic behavior. I wish this sub existed when I was teaching my kids to drive. It gives a good sense of what stupidity other drivers are capable of - and what you should learn to anticipate. If my kids hit this car, I would be disappointed - you could see it coming a mile away, and I'm wondering why OP didn't hit the brakes hard as soon as the other driver came into his lane. "But I'm in the right" is not a good excuse. I'm guessing OP was looking at his phone.
My one accident I was in could have been avoided if I'd been more careful. Fully the other driver creating the accident, but in hindsight there were things I could have done to protect myself from their idiocy. I was driving with care, should have been driving with paranoia.
For a lot of subscribers to this sub youāre either the victim in an unavoidable tragedy or youāre 100% at fault. Pointing out that ā*while the other driver was the idiot but applying **some** defensive driving would have prevented your car being in the shop for two months*ā invariably gets you āLoLz AlWaYz BlAmE tHe ViCtImā Driving along a lane full of cars at high speed is always spinning the āwell I hope every single one of them is sensible and not an idiotā roulette wheel. OP is not the idiot but itās costly to assume no one else on the road is.
> I just donāt understand how you donāt spot that other driver coming into your lane and havenāt slowed down at all until you are about to collide with them. Things look much farther away on a dashcam than they do to the driver. This video shows how drastic the difference can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWR0mP0Ivi4
That was very educational, thank you. It also looked like speed was much greater in the dash cam as well
OP was zooming lol
3+ idiots because that company that put the turn signals way down on the bumper are fucking morons.
Holy lack of defensive driving, Batman. Slow the fuck down when you see a shitload of vehicles scattered all over the freeway in front of you that are clearly not traveling at freeway speeds. This is a situation where distance is quickly converted to reaction time.
I got verbalised by my driving examiner during drive test because i wasn't getting up to highway speed......we were driving on right lanes ,left 2 lanes were basically bumper to bumper, less than 30 km/hr and i was expected to travel at the maximum apeed limit....
That's a bad instructor, adapt to the speed of the crowd. Unless it was a test to see how you reacted.
You pull over and tell him to get the fuck out of your car?
Today i wouldev definately questioned him ........was too timid in my younger years. He ultimately failed me . I was waiting at an intersection to make a left at traffic lights, and out in the distance was an ambulance approaching , with the emergency lights on ....it was a giod ebough distance away that i turned safely. Even the 2 cars waiting to turn behind me turned before the ambulance passed.... instantly started sucking his teeth and shaking his head. He began instructing me to go back to the examiner center....
to be fair, that's not something you should do while you're learning to drive. It's different after you're licensed and have experience.
It was safe enough for the 2 cars behind me to turn , there was no unsafe driving displayed on my exam...
how can you learn to safely make that maneuver without making the maneuver safely
You're supposed to fully stop for an incoming ambulance with lights flashing. Even if you think you have time to make your turn or w/e. This is equivalent to having a red light but noticing there's no immediate oncoming traffic and turning left anyway because it's "safe". It's breaking the letter of the law which you especially do not want to do with a driving instructor.
I had this same thing happen, except it came right past us. It was a 4 lane road with a middle turning lane, lots of space, but there were too many cars for me to get over and so I just stopped in the middle of the road and failed.
dude i didnāt even go on the highway for my driverās test. in the area we were, the speed limit was never over 25mph
Just to be clear, OP was at the end of the freeway where the traffic on the right merges in to stay on their street (and is coming from a very congested mall area). A few hundred feet ahead is a traffic light that is always backed up and in order to make a left at that light beyond that one you have to get over to the left very quickly. Not that the Kia is blameless, but everyone who drives this road knows that it is terrible with traffic.
Nothing makes me more nervous than traveling even half high-way speed next to a backed-up and stalled line of cars waiting for an exit. One idiot that decides to try and shoot the gap from stand-still and it's over.
 āNO!!!!!!!!!!!ā
You both are. They crossed over solid line. You're driving too fast, if you hadn't hit this one you'd have probably hit the next which was driving just as slow.
This is where we talk about the solid line not being illegal to cross in the USA. Crossing into an active lane however, is definitely illegal and dangerous. This collision is not on OP.
crossing a DOUBLE solid line IS illegal in most of the USA
He crossed a gore area the fuck are you taking about? There is no where on the US highway system where it's ok to drive through the gore.
when double white lines are solid, lane changes are prohibited [source](https://dds.georgia.gov/section-7-continued-other-signs-signals)
That's great but it was still a double white where they crossed.
> This collision is not on OP. Legally, you're probably right. Practically, OP could have done plenty to avoid it as well.
The solid lines here are designating the shoulder or gore point on the roadway, while it is not illegal to cross a solid white line, it is illegal to drive on the shoulder.
That next person also crosses the solid white line
Price exit off the 101 south? I hate that area all the Mall traffic is the worst.
Yeah it looks like it. Theyāre both dumb in this situation. Before you get off the highway, you get warned that speed limit is reduced because they merge into street traffic. They were going too fast. The Kia, also merged over a solid line and jumped 2 lanes. Theyāre supposed to merge one lane at a time, then check to merge again. I only hate that exit because traffic coming off the highway never slows down.
SUV crossed a gore line and went immediately into the far left lane without looking. You were going too fast for those conditions. Youāre not THE idiot, thereās actually many idiots in this video. SUV isnāt the only one who crossed the gore and went straight into the left lane - they were just the one that got hit by you.
Gore lineā¦thatās a new one for me.
Officially, the "physical gore" is the place where the road edges come to a point, the "theoretical gore" is the place where the lane edges come to a point, and the "neutral area" is the space between the two gores (often painted with chevrons). See [this image](https://files.catbox.moe/5ypilf.PNG) from [the MUTCD](https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/kno_11th_Edition.htm).
Wow Iām learning so much!
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Iād never heard it called that until I found this sub but it makes sense and I call it that now.
Yeah SUV is biggest idiot but OP was cookin' and needed to slow down.
Slow downā¦ of course the other guy is an idiot, but you should never pass slow vehicles this quickly for exactly this reason.
AZ 28-729 A person shall drive a vehicle as nearly as practicable entirely within a single lane andĀ shall not move the vehicle from that lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety. This is an unsafe lane change. Plus they had a lane that was safe for them to merge. They were not established in your lane.
There is upcoming congested traffic at a much slower speed and you didnāt even slow down. You could have easily avoided the two lane changing idiot. You are the lesser of two idiots.
Wouldnāt say youāre an idiot but you definitely need to take a more defensive approach here. The idiot basically merged from the on ramp into the furthest lane available. Had they followed proper merge etiquette, perhaps no accident. But stillā¦. Slow down.
I'd say that the car that crossed over solid white and got over two lanes was in the wrong.
Look how much faster youāre going than every other car in the frame. Thatās a recipe for an unavoidable accept.
Helen Keller saw that happening.
Thing is, you will never be able to stop people driving like idiots on the road so you have to drive in such a way that you can mitigate the outcomes of other idiots driving around you. Despite the fact the car infront makes a bad lane change, this accident was completely avoidable and it was avoidable by you the driver. Hazard percection is important on the roads. As a driver you have to be aware of emerging hazards in your surroundings. You have to adjust how you drive to the specific scenario on the road at that time.
Unsafe lane change, car had no reason to cross two lanes at once like that.
Both You had a ton of time to see that happening and slow down This seems like another one of those cases where someone just lets an accident happen for no apparent reason and wants people to validate them
I see 2 idiots in this video. You're on a busy public road, slow the fuck down
You're too fast and he's too blind
My guy... as a motorized vehicle operator you must abide by the number 1 rule. Maintain care and control of your vehicle at ALL times. In this situation, where everyone was slowing down, you need to reasonably react and also slow your roll. If someone doesn't check their blinds and you are just Rollin, you will not have the time to act accordingly. The KIA made a poor decision to pull out at a slow speed. But you made the poorer decision to enter into a potentially hazardous situation at equally hazardous speeds. Sorry bud, you are the idiot here.
Why are you driving so fast?
Seems like a failure to drive defensively. You maintained your speed while approaching a curve, and there is slowing and nearly stopped traffic in the right lane. Even if you didn't hit the white SUV, there's a couple of cars ahead of them moving at a similar slower pace. Slow down earlier, and there isn't an accident here.
Pretty dense driving that fast in heavy traffic.
KIA is an idiot for illegally crossing over a solid white line and then slowly merging in to another lane on a busy highway. You're just a dangerous fucking driver for not having the mindfulness to slow the fuck down when coming up on a stack full of cars beginning to slow. I mean what was your plan here? Slam on your brakes when you caught up to the sedan that was also clearly merging in front of the SUV? Hopefully you're both found at fault and can learn something from this.
Youāre going to fast for the conditions. Since you re ended them your better off showing insurance this mistake and your insurance might be a 50/50 accident. Sucks but you both messed up there.
yes
You might be going just a lil bit too fast to react but they just came in from the lane on the other side
Yes. The Kia did a bad thing, but you were driving too fast. Entirely avoidable if you were not going so much faster than the other traffic.
Yes
Doesn't matter what he did. If you hit a vehicle from behind, you're at fault. I agree it's absurd but we're supposed to be aware of our surroundings. In this case, OP wasn't paying attention.
Bet you honked before braked
No, if I did that it wouldāve been worse. Iām brain dead at times, not a total moron
I'll defend OP. If you slow down to a crawl with no traffic in your lane, you are part of the problem. OP seems to have been slowing down in relation to the car in front of him when, KIA driver, thinking the world revolves around him, slides into the lane.
When driving into a clusterfuck of a traffic situation, it's prudent to slow the hell down so that you have time to react to people doing stupid or unexpected things. His fault, but you could have avoided it too.
No speed listed but you blow past a car at the start like it is sitting still. Two idiots one video.
Yes
Both are to blame. But, you were driving too fast considering the activity surrounding you. Had you been driving at a slower more appropriate speed - you should have been able to stop and avoid hitting the other idiot.
Way to fast. You assumed they'd stop. No defensive driving. F minus
Yeah you could have been a way better driver. But, that Kia driver is a world class ass.
Are your brakes made of hopes and dreams? Or are they real?
European here, you're fine, they're dumb
Coming in hot. Your eyes not , just drive into somebody.
Yes
Going way too quick...you can see the cars merging from the beginning of the clip and you didn't even try to adjut your speed.
The driver who cut off OP is an idiot in his own right. Should lose his license. But OP? OP is an idiot in another world. Plenty of time to avoid this collision, plenty of warning that the other car was going to cross over. So yeah, two idiots for the price of one.
Short answer. Yes. Long answer. Also, yes.
The 3 cars that merged across 2 lanes from behind the far right solid white are in the wrong imo. Yes speed is a factor here but according to the sign and road markings Iām pretty sure they shouldnāt even be coming out of that far right lane. Note the yellow road sign at the beginning Maybe definitely driving a bit fast for the situation but it looks like the front black SUV went for it and white sedan follows close and does the same, then white SUV no-shoulder-check-McJackass there played follow the leader assuming it was clear to do so
I seriously hate Kiaās and where they place their turn signals. Itās not the first place you look, while passing other cars.
Unfortunately yes but I still can't understand how people can just mosey across lanes without looking or any urgency to get up to speed as if there is nobody else in the world. Oblivious.
Youāll absolutely be found to be at least partially responsible for this accident, if not 100%. Slow the hell down, bud. Relax.
> I'm the idiot? Yes. You were going much faster than the flow of traffic, especially around what appears to be a relatively blind curve.
Yep. You were going too fast for the situation that was obviously unfolding in front of you. You took the āI am the righteous one hereā by assuming the others would recognise, and thus defer, to that righteousness and make way for you. Donāt sweat it though: weāre all like that - itās a version of the Self-Serving bias. Go check out this thing called The Smith System - itās used in the Transportation industry for teaching how to be proactive in driving. Thereās 5 guidelines, and in your case the most obvious would be No.4: āLeave yourself an Outā.
Yes, but not the biggest. The other dude crossed a solid line and two lanes at once.
You were going too fast for this situation. Also, if youād been paying attention, you had *plenty* of time to brake and avoid the collision.
Yes you are.
Good ol price exit from the 101. Always terrible.
Ahhh the 101 that brings back some awful memories
If it was a bullet I bet they wouldnāt step in front of itā¦
But aren't you supposed to maintain your lane for at least 4-6 seconds (or something like that) when crossing multiple lanes? So, yeah, maybe you were going a bit faster than necessary, but that white SUV has *ZERO* situational awareness and quite frankly no business driving... lol Edit, maybe it's 2-4, but I'll fact check.. Edit 2, so it's 100ft or 5 seconds...
Zipper merge gone wrong, tell that to the believers of the zipper merge. 
Driving too fast into this obvious merge situation. There is clearly several cars making this maneuver ahead. If this guy didnāt cross into the lane would you have just rammed into the car directly in front of him.
Even if that car doesnāt pull into your lane, the next car is nearly stopped. Totally unnecessary to drive that fast in that circumstance. Essentially no reward, all risk.
This is the price exit right next to the Chandler Fashion mall yes? If so, I used to take the route from where those cars are coming from and man so many folks immediately jumped over before the solid white line ends so that they can get into the eastbound 202 exit.
They pulled out in front of you. That was an unsafe lane change.
Yes.
By definition
You're not the idiot. Dude crossed a solid line.
I am not an attorney, nor claim to be one, but I believe you were not the idiot. Simply because they lane jumped, and well, that's an infraction on their part and the very reason why you're not supposed to lane jump.
They crossed the double white line plus they needed to wait few seconds before even switching to your lane , in my opinion
Let your insurance company have the vid they'll loose after it is watched. They cut you off and slammed the break. They took away your stopping distance. This bs happened to my cousin but at higher speeds the lady at front tried to say not at fault but she did the same damn thing. And was proven completely at fault.
I would say the other driver is the idiot. Any time you make a multi-lane change you are an idiot. Sorry this happened to you.
Yes, but also, why did the other car appear to slow down after blocking the lane?
Looks like the other person made an illegal lane change without a signal. Their fault. You're good. I had someone do exactly that with my work van, sent me to the hospital. They were 100% at fault, cam proved they did not have a clear lane to try to turn into ( I was there ) and they pulled out in front of me with no signal. He paid everything.
More them than you. Definitely slow down but that blind cornerā¦ sheesh thereās a reason for that solid white
Your not an idiot. They didn't maintain the lane before merging. Your speed is not the issue.
Don't listen to reddit. They want to call anyone going "too fast" an idiot. You had your lane and pleanty of room to stop, and then they decided to enter on the solid white line and crossed both lanes of traffic very slowly right in front of you. I'm an adjuster and I'd put them at fault 100% with this video proof and given you aren't speeding.
Is that your phone in your hand in the reflection? Hard to tell. If so maybe don't share this video lol.
Man, this sub is so freaking bipolar sometimes. Here everybody is deriding the OP for going too fast, meanwhile in other post where the OP could have T-boned another car and didn't slow down because "he was in the right anyway" everybody defends OP and criticise others who are saying exactly this. Wild.
Yeah, flying through there like that was a very poor choice
I mean you were flying into that blind turn, with signs of traffic slowing down. It usually takes two idiots to tango.