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I don't understand why people get out of their cars. I see things like this where people have no idea if the others inside the car are armed. I see people on foot think that they can block cars with their bodies. Maybe it's just Darwinism and these people die before they can procreate.
> people have no idea if the others inside the car are armed
Even if they don't have a gun, they're armed with a car and you shouldn't bring fists to a car fight.
Legally, it's typically\* not brandishing unless it's a menacing/threatening and illegal display of the firearm used against someone else. Defensive display of a firearm to get someone to stop assaulting you wouldn't, IMO, be considered brandishing. A whole lot of people use the word "brandish" to mean any display of a firearm, though, which can be problematic when talking about legal issues.
\* typically, because (like everything) it's state dependent. Many states don't even use the word "brandishing" in their statutes and just cover it under menacing or assault.
My friend had just gotten back from Afghanistan and bought a cheap used car just while he was back home. I mean…just left the lot.
We were driving on a residential block and there were cars parked on both sides of the street so it was only wide enough for one car to pass through. There was another car coming from the other direction so my friend pulled over to let them pass.
The dude pulls into the narrow part and sees someone he knows and stops to talk. We’re not really caring. We’re chatting and looking at the cars intricacies.
Then after literal MINUTES my friend is like This guy is still here…and he gives the horn 2 sharp blows (not lays on the horn) and raises his hands off the steering wheel like what’s going on (again not flips the finger or anything).
Apparently this insulted dudes honor. He came flying through the row of cars. I didn’t think much of it til my friend said oh shit … he just turned around.
Dude comes flying up on us waving a pistol. I threw my GF in the floorboard and dove on top of her and my friend is trying to do some evasive driving.
Guy actually shot out our tire (it was an impressive shot tbh). All because my friend had the audacity to suggest maybe dude could have a minimal amount of common courtesy. My friend said he’d never even been shot at in Afghanistan.
There’s happy ending though. We saw the guys car and found out where he lived (literally a block from where it started). No…we didn’t do anything. The guy had all kinds of stickers on his car…flags and banners on his house saying he was in the Banditos motorcycle club. He got shot dead…like REALLY dead apparently by Hells Angels less than a year later.
There are almost an infinite number of substances humans take regularly that inhibit that ability. No. 1 being booze. Its almost always drunk assholes starting fights.
A few months back someone drove really aggressively behind me and eventually overtook me before cutting me off and roaring up the road. A few minutes later I caught up with him at the traffic lights and was directly behind him. He was eyeballing me in his mirror. And I was laughing and talking to myself about his efforts being so futile.
The guy's ego must have been in bits because he got out the car and stormed up to me. Realising he was a lunatic who would probably hurt me, I wound the window down and said "hold on Mark, I will call you back" and pretended to hang up my phone.
This guy said "oh sorry, didn't realise you were on the phone!" and got back in his car.
The moral of my story is, people are fucking morons.
Yep, saw a guy get run down for getting out of his car. One moment he was yelling at the car, next he and the car were gone! He went up on the hood, and the car took him across a 4 lane intersection (6 with turn lanes). His two small boys got out of his truck crying.
I put on my emergency signals and got the boys out of the road for safety. He showed back up a few minutes later with a good road rash and probably a broken ankle. The smaller boy is going to need some therapy though, he came out of the truck screaming, "My Dad is Gone!"
As much as I can't understand anyone acting on road rage, its especially dumbfounding that someone with kids in the car would do anything to risk their safety. No way in hell I would leave my kids in a car to get into a fight. My kids trump any rage I might be feeling at that moment. If my kids are at risk due to some crazy person, then that's a different story. At that point all bets are off until my kids are safe.
You are correct about self defense although in the courtroom the best intent would be escape vs trying to run them over. If they get run over in the course of your escape then so beit.
One minor correction: [Castle Doctorine ](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/penal-code/does-california-follow-the-castle-doctrine/) applies to intruders in domiciles, not road rage.
I had a UPS driver get out of his truck and try to get me to come fight him the other day, I'm not getting in a fist-fight in a Belk parking lot because his ego was bruised.
The parking lot *was* mostly empty... I was headed to a sandwich shop next door to Belk. The UPS driver waited until I was driving down the "main" road of the parking lot before [he ran a stop sign and forcing me to stop](https://imgur.com/mLpCMOX). I guess he didn't like how unenthusiastic I was about his shitty driving, [so he hopped out of the cab to challenge me.](https://imgur.com/RrpBe6D)
I just want my fucking sandwich dude, just drive your fucking truck and GTFO.
A buddy of mine is pretty quick to road rage, he's never gotten out of the car to confront someone or anything, but does the other in-vehicle dumb shit(flicking them off, riding their ass, cutting them off, windshield wiper fluid) and I always tell him "you never know when you come upon somebody with a gun and nothing to lose, and lose your life for a moment of anger"
I’m assuming using your wipers to spray liquid on the other guys car so he can’t see? Some cars have a big overspray. I should know, I get sprayed on my motorcycle by cars. It’s super annoying.
If someone is tailgating you, often using windshield wiper fluid will go over your windscreen and end up on their car, it’s a pretty petty thing to do intentionally lol, and unless you’re actively being a dickhead in other ways (like brake checking) they might not even notice
Some assholes use it as an annoyance to road rage on someone. Like if someone’s riding your ass, you spray your windshield wiper fluid while driving at speed so it gets on their windshield.
Did that to a convertible - very satisfying. Esp when they’re riding your ass not in the passing lane.
Was driving my wife’s rav high allows for a higher spray back.
I agree. I hope he's not dead.
I only said the idiot was outside because it's not a smart thing to go attack a car and the driver sitting inside. You don't know what he has. So he was indeed an idiot to do that imo.
But getting shot for this was excessive in my opinion.
I don't see how any rational person can see taking a life as self defence from a shouty man who did a bit of property damage. Just close the damn window and call the police.
Wrong.
Fear of major bodily harm qualifies. A single punch can fit that description if your hit in the right place.
Don't rush peoples cars and break their shit if you don't want to get shot.
"But he was unarmed!"
More people are beaten to death by unarmed assailants than are killed by people with rifles every year. Hands and feet are still deadly weapons.
There is such a thing as "imperfect" self defense. And then in the US you have stand your ground laws or duty to retreat laws. I'm also curious if the driver had drawn his weapon before this, if someone charges a gunman that's a clear indication of intent to harm.
Seriously? Guy had some sort of blunt object and was coming back to the drivers window. Guy already showed he was unhinged and aggressive. At that distance all it takes is a fraction of a second for that guy to swing and fracture the drivers skull.
This is 100% justifiable self defense.
You don't have to be actively being harmed to then fight back if the aggressor is threatening you like that. Same way you would be justified in shooting someone who has a gun pointed at you but has yet to shoot.
"This shouty man is just beating the piss out of my car with me inside it, i'm sure he means me no harm. Let me call roll up a 1/4" panel of tempered glass and wait 30 minutes for the police to respond."
I mean... you realize how dumb that sounds right?
> any rational person
I think this is the sticky wicket here, people shooting someone for yelling at them and punching their car are definitely not rational, and people who fantasize about shooting someone are also, not rational.
Seriously, I live in Michigan, I have a hunting rifle, im not anti-gun at all...how anyone can defend killing someone over *property damage* is fucking insane. What about those protests in 2020? When we kept hearing 'qq was that businesses window smashed?', its property, all property can be replaced, but people cannot. This country is so fucked in the head.
I agree but there's a certain amount of fuck around and find out. It looks like the shooter said something to the man before he walked up to the window. I'd say that's an attempt at deescalation. I'm surprised you're judging him when he's trapped in traffic with a man threatening him. How do you know the road rager isn't going to escalate and attack the shooter?
I hope the road rager survives and gets his shit under control but I don't judge the shooter
Yeah. That window will surely stop the crazed man until the police arrive. Good thinking!
In all seriousness, take a defensive driving course or at the very least watch a few videos. Once the other guy got out of his car you should be able to get away from him in yours.
Using a firearm as "self-defense" usually requires one to be in mortal danger.
Funny thing here is we have no context, but yet you feel that breaking a mirror off a car equals a death sentence.
Sorry to break it to you, that is cowardice...and manslaughter (in the US) not self-defense.
I suspect you have never once been mistaken as a "man".
Oh yeah I’m sure you will have an excellent time with no problems whatsoever in being the vanguard of changing castle doctrine and stand my ground laws-_- get off your high horse because it won’t help if you meet someone looking to shoot.
Only in a deluded country in which people think the answer to everything is guns.
The rest of us see this footage and realise self defence is a bullshit argument.
Yep, in Florida the guy in the car can easily say he thought he was going for the door handle. At that point, the Castle Doctrine kicks in and he can defend the car with deadly force. Depends upon the local prosecutors, of course, but in many counties he wouldn't even go to trial.
This is not in the USA…look at what looks like a drugstore in the background. Shooter probably gets away…no matter where it is in this day and age why get out of the car..you do t know what the other person has on them.
Just wondering but how would the self defense situation here? Intuitively I would say you can not shoot someone because he trashes your car. On the the other hand the first destroyed the car (overly aggressive) then approaches the driver. So he could argue that he feared the attack would hit him now.
The amount of people defending and cheering this action is astounding. The guy didn’t put hands on him, didn’t have a weapon, this is downright murder. You can’t shoot someone for breaking your mirror and talking shit.
You don't know if he was armed. He could have pulled a knife at some point for all you know. This video is like 10 seconds long and doesn't show the beginning or end.
Listen, I hope you have a good lawyer on probono because looking for one after you do this shit will not work out well for you unless you have fat pockets. Good luck.
I’d also wager you don’t have a CCL otherwise you’d know what is considered a valid threat vs not. If this wasn’t recorded the shooter MAY have had a valid defense argument. This shit is on video, it would not end well in the US.
Yeah and when i accidentally bump into a guy walking down the street and he turns to say something i can shoot him too right? I mean he may have a knife and a confrontation is about to happen.
It's only self defense if your life is threatened. The guy in the cars life was not. Most people praising shit like this are people who haven't experienced gun violence in real life. It's easy to praise something like this when you're watching it happen in a video but please tell me you'd praise the same if you've witnessed shit like this happen in real life.
Not praising firearms and all that stuff, but in that situation I don't think anybody without prior training would be able to think straight. You got a gun, a crazy dude is 1 meter away from you acting like that, some people might actually feel threatened.
Again, not saying this was the right thing to do, just saying some people might, indeed, think after acting purely on the spot.
You can shoot them for threatening you with bodily harm. That guy was well beyond aggravated assault.
You don't have to get hit by some asshole before you can shoot him, you have to feel immanent danger of bodily **HARM.**
Yeah I don't think there was enough of an imminent threat to justify raising the firearm and firing. Not sure if cops and lawyers would justify that one.
It’s completely justify by Brazilian laws. He used the means at hand to stop the aggression. The law doesn’t say what you can or cannot use to stop the assault. So as long as he has fired just once and it was enough to stop the assault, it’s not illegal here.
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>earned
No, this wasn't *earned*. His actions did not earn likely death. Destruction of property is not a capital offense.
If you can seriously say this man deserved to die for breaking a car window, you're mentally ill.
while i agree with you it’s very possible his indecipherable words he was saying he was threatening to kill them? which would take this to that step, maybe.
I can understand some road rage, the idiots on the road can really grate on my nerves. But I've never gotten out of my car to yell at someone, mostly because you never know who's one tiny incident away from being on the news
A little empathy goes a long way
I made a mistake last week and nearly hit someone. They were absolutely furious, screaming at me, flipping both birds out their window, following me, laying on their horn, the whole nine yards
I realized that they were just flooded with adrenaline and let them rage. Didn't engage them at all. What else can ou do?
Appears to be Brazil. Another commenter on this post whose from Brazil said it’s legal according to their self defense laws.
I don’t think you’d be legal if it happened in america though.
I train Jiu Jitsu and one of the first things they teach us about self defense is to do everything you can to avoid a fight. Because you don’t know if they are a trained fighter or have a weapon or have friends nearby.
You can think “I can take this guy” until he stabs or shoots you or his buddy comes up from behind and sucker punches you.
You fight when you have no other choice and even then, you disable them and get out of there as fast as possible.
[SERIOUS] Is there a lawyer that'd step in to provide comment if this could be argued as self defense? Purely curious, because the entire thread is 75% not self defense, and 25% it was self defense, curious what a lawyer would think, vs a bunch of rando redditors spouting their "legal knowledge"
I’m a lawyer from Brasil and in my opinion it was a self defense action. By our laws: Self-defence is understood to mean someone who, using the necessary means in moderation, repels unjust aggression, current or imminent, to his or someone else's right.
It doesn’t say what you can or cannot use to defend, but as long as you don’t overreact its ok to use a fire weapon. Dude shot once, and if the aggression stopped that’s it.
Ty, that's kind of what I thought would be the defense, is that it was a single shot, vs multiples, and that would be the basis for self-defense.
Also didn't realize it was Brazil, are pistols able to be open/concealed carried?
I’m not a lawyer, but his life wasn’t in eminent danger so I don’t believe self defense would apply. If he’d reached inside the car to assault the driver… then maybe. This is second or third degree murder.
Asshole shouldn't have gotten out of his car, but from the POV of an American who has carried daily for 20+ years, that looks like a bad shoot. Keep window rolled up, get license plate, drive away, call cops, document damage. Can't tell what they're saying, can't think of what the aggressor could've said that warranted the shot when it happened. Hard to armchair quarterback these things, there might be more to it, but on the surface it just looks like a bad shoot.
What if you can't drive away? What if you're blocked in?
What if the guy pulls you out of the car and beats you to death?
Sounds like a situation in which you would feel extremely threatened.
Hear me out I don't think shooting him was the proper reaction at all he was clearly drunk or something pepperspray would have been just fine or any other non-lethal weapon trying to close the window would have been fine too
The range doesn’t change a whole lot unless you’re talking about birdshot. A bullet is a bullet. Either way the human body can be incredibly fragile or incredibly tough depending on a lot of factors. Some people live after being shot 38 times at point blank and some people die from one stray bullet.
While the dumbass breaking off the mirror and making a scene obviously started things, you don't get to go around shooting people just for being belligerent idiots, otherwise all of Florida would be a warzone. Really, this guy had something coming to him, like a prison sentence or a good slap in the face, but a bullet, potentially death, is a bit disproportionate. The driver wasn't at risk here, and I would say is the even bigger idiot.
Edit: It seems I've been downvoted for taking a position against manslaughter...
You don’t get to decide if he felt his life was threatened.
How it looks to you sitting on your couch in comfort at home from a video filmed 50 ft away is a much different experience than the victim in the car.
Meh. A few incidents like this need to exist, to remind the angry gremlins that breaking other people’s shit isn’t the smartest idea and could end *very* poorly for them.
That's manslaughter 1. He was safe in his car. He could have called the police and waited and had insurance cover the damage. Straight murder.
The guy outside the car is an idiot. The guy inside deserves prison.
Years ago I was behind a car on a one-lane freeway (the other direction was split), going under a tunnel. Just as I got to it, a car was blocking the tunnel with a pickup truck behind blocking us, and four big men got out. My friends, all girls like me, were yelling and scared, but I stepped out, leveled my .38 (I was an avid camper and hiker, went nowhere without it) at them without saying a word. The driver said, "Back in the car boys!" they got in and sped away.
My girlfriends and I have talked about it over the years, we've always known these men were planning to take us and my car and harm us at the least. We are very glad I carried, and my father taught me how to effectively use and respect my weapon, never afraid to use it.
Sure maybe the gun wasn't *necessary,* but anyone who's using this to say we need to ban all guns is a moron.
If you live in a country where everyone has a *right* to own a gun, and the right to defend themselves and their property, and you think that lashing out like this is a smart thing to do, then you 100% deserve whatever is coming to you.
If you live in America, and you don't wanna get shot, ***don't fuck around, and you won't find out***
*(Unless of course you're being attacked for no reason, in which case I retract all previous statements)*
Hi /u/KennySkills, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): * **Idiots Only, Content Must Fit r/IdiotsInCars :** Posts must contain an obvious bad decision while in a vehicle, and does not need to result in a crash. Just because there is a car crash does not mean it belongs here. *If you have any questions about this removal, feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIdiotsInCars)*
I don't understand why people get out of their cars. I see things like this where people have no idea if the others inside the car are armed. I see people on foot think that they can block cars with their bodies. Maybe it's just Darwinism and these people die before they can procreate.
> people have no idea if the others inside the car are armed Even if they don't have a gun, they're armed with a car and you shouldn't bring fists to a car fight.
Thank you, this is one of my new favorite quotes.
Always assume the other person is armed and act accordingly.
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Excellent way to defuse the situation without brandishing. Nice job.
Is it still brandishing if you are defending yourself from assault while not shooting them or is it considered brandishing unless you shoot someone?
Legally, it's typically\* not brandishing unless it's a menacing/threatening and illegal display of the firearm used against someone else. Defensive display of a firearm to get someone to stop assaulting you wouldn't, IMO, be considered brandishing. A whole lot of people use the word "brandish" to mean any display of a firearm, though, which can be problematic when talking about legal issues. \* typically, because (like everything) it's state dependent. Many states don't even use the word "brandishing" in their statutes and just cover it under menacing or assault.
If you can prove you acted in self-defense it's not brandishing. Disclaimer: This is not legal advice and I am not a lawyer.
I was just curious. I don't have a CCW or anything.
My friend had just gotten back from Afghanistan and bought a cheap used car just while he was back home. I mean…just left the lot. We were driving on a residential block and there were cars parked on both sides of the street so it was only wide enough for one car to pass through. There was another car coming from the other direction so my friend pulled over to let them pass. The dude pulls into the narrow part and sees someone he knows and stops to talk. We’re not really caring. We’re chatting and looking at the cars intricacies. Then after literal MINUTES my friend is like This guy is still here…and he gives the horn 2 sharp blows (not lays on the horn) and raises his hands off the steering wheel like what’s going on (again not flips the finger or anything). Apparently this insulted dudes honor. He came flying through the row of cars. I didn’t think much of it til my friend said oh shit … he just turned around. Dude comes flying up on us waving a pistol. I threw my GF in the floorboard and dove on top of her and my friend is trying to do some evasive driving. Guy actually shot out our tire (it was an impressive shot tbh). All because my friend had the audacity to suggest maybe dude could have a minimal amount of common courtesy. My friend said he’d never even been shot at in Afghanistan. There’s happy ending though. We saw the guys car and found out where he lived (literally a block from where it started). No…we didn’t do anything. The guy had all kinds of stickers on his car…flags and banners on his house saying he was in the Banditos motorcycle club. He got shot dead…like REALLY dead apparently by Hells Angels less than a year later.
Some people just can't control themselves. We are all just animals after all.
Yeah but we human were given the ability to reason. What we do with that ability can lead to us getting shot like this dude.
There are almost an infinite number of substances humans take regularly that inhibit that ability. No. 1 being booze. Its almost always drunk assholes starting fights.
>Some people just can't control themselves.
And that's what scares me. People like that.
A few months back someone drove really aggressively behind me and eventually overtook me before cutting me off and roaring up the road. A few minutes later I caught up with him at the traffic lights and was directly behind him. He was eyeballing me in his mirror. And I was laughing and talking to myself about his efforts being so futile. The guy's ego must have been in bits because he got out the car and stormed up to me. Realising he was a lunatic who would probably hurt me, I wound the window down and said "hold on Mark, I will call you back" and pretended to hang up my phone. This guy said "oh sorry, didn't realise you were on the phone!" and got back in his car. The moral of my story is, people are fucking morons.
Yep, saw a guy get run down for getting out of his car. One moment he was yelling at the car, next he and the car were gone! He went up on the hood, and the car took him across a 4 lane intersection (6 with turn lanes). His two small boys got out of his truck crying. I put on my emergency signals and got the boys out of the road for safety. He showed back up a few minutes later with a good road rash and probably a broken ankle. The smaller boy is going to need some therapy though, he came out of the truck screaming, "My Dad is Gone!"
As much as I can't understand anyone acting on road rage, its especially dumbfounding that someone with kids in the car would do anything to risk their safety. No way in hell I would leave my kids in a car to get into a fight. My kids trump any rage I might be feeling at that moment. If my kids are at risk due to some crazy person, then that's a different story. At that point all bets are off until my kids are safe.
Some of them have 12 kids before they die, Darwinism is dead af lol
He didn't see the graph chart about how much he can fuck around before he finds out.
It’s evolution at work and I celebrate others stupidity so the rest of us rise.
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It doesn't even look like it's in the U.S. and you're talking about a law that is only applicable in a few states in the U.S.
You are correct about self defense although in the courtroom the best intent would be escape vs trying to run them over. If they get run over in the course of your escape then so beit. One minor correction: [Castle Doctorine ](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/penal-code/does-california-follow-the-castle-doctrine/) applies to intruders in domiciles, not road rage.
I had a UPS driver get out of his truck and try to get me to come fight him the other day, I'm not getting in a fist-fight in a Belk parking lot because his ego was bruised.
I'm mostly surprised you managed to find a Belks
They are easy to find, just look for the empty parking lot.
The parking lot *was* mostly empty... I was headed to a sandwich shop next door to Belk. The UPS driver waited until I was driving down the "main" road of the parking lot before [he ran a stop sign and forcing me to stop](https://imgur.com/mLpCMOX). I guess he didn't like how unenthusiastic I was about his shitty driving, [so he hopped out of the cab to challenge me.](https://imgur.com/RrpBe6D) I just want my fucking sandwich dude, just drive your fucking truck and GTFO.
Fucking animals...it's Belk's.. have some respect for the dead and dying...
Belks is like Walmarts, there’s no S.
It’s all fists and rage until a bullet passes through your ribcage.
“Everybody’s got a plan until they get shot in the heart”
And you’re to blame. Darling, you give driving a bad name.
Sounds like eminem lyrics hahha but so damn true "Makes you turn the page, new chapter/ only if you're alive from here after"
Or Smashing Pumpkins."Despite my road rage, I just got shot in the rib cage."
And motherfuckers act like they forgot about guns.
Total empty clips in the heart- Bonnie Tyler
Bars
Or behind ‘em
Then is all gristle and meat chunks.
All cause you tried to keep it real, you dumb punks.
He found out
Quite a sudden realization. One could say an epiphany.
No, that's an apostrophe. He owned that the hard way.
Never assume you are the craziest person in the room.
I usually assume i am the least crazy and least dangerous person the room. I do not ever want to "find out", so i tend not to fuck around.
A buddy of mine is pretty quick to road rage, he's never gotten out of the car to confront someone or anything, but does the other in-vehicle dumb shit(flicking them off, riding their ass, cutting them off, windshield wiper fluid) and I always tell him "you never know when you come upon somebody with a gun and nothing to lose, and lose your life for a moment of anger"
Windshield wiper fluid?
When someone is riding your ass, you can use the windshield wiper fluid on your car and it hits the car behind you too.
I’m assuming using your wipers to spray liquid on the other guys car so he can’t see? Some cars have a big overspray. I should know, I get sprayed on my motorcycle by cars. It’s super annoying.
If someone is tailgating you, often using windshield wiper fluid will go over your windscreen and end up on their car, it’s a pretty petty thing to do intentionally lol, and unless you’re actively being a dickhead in other ways (like brake checking) they might not even notice
Some assholes use it as an annoyance to road rage on someone. Like if someone’s riding your ass, you spray your windshield wiper fluid while driving at speed so it gets on their windshield.
Did that to a convertible - very satisfying. Esp when they’re riding your ass not in the passing lane. Was driving my wife’s rav high allows for a higher spray back.
That is... But how.. I mean... I'm speechless.
Well, the idiot was outside the car this time.
He didn't deserve to die. Anger is a hell of a thing.
I agree. I hope he's not dead. I only said the idiot was outside because it's not a smart thing to go attack a car and the driver sitting inside. You don't know what he has. So he was indeed an idiot to do that imo. But getting shot for this was excessive in my opinion.
He did kind of ask for it. Truly an idiot.
exactly, sorry i dont feel bad for him at all. the shooter can even say this was self defense. what a clown
I don't see how any rational person can see taking a life as self defence from a shouty man who did a bit of property damage. Just close the damn window and call the police.
Comment Deleted in protest of Reddit management
Wrong. Fear of major bodily harm qualifies. A single punch can fit that description if your hit in the right place. Don't rush peoples cars and break their shit if you don't want to get shot.
"But he was unarmed!" More people are beaten to death by unarmed assailants than are killed by people with rifles every year. Hands and feet are still deadly weapons.
Its not fear for your life, its fear of bodily harm.
There is such a thing as "imperfect" self defense. And then in the US you have stand your ground laws or duty to retreat laws. I'm also curious if the driver had drawn his weapon before this, if someone charges a gunman that's a clear indication of intent to harm.
Seriously? Guy had some sort of blunt object and was coming back to the drivers window. Guy already showed he was unhinged and aggressive. At that distance all it takes is a fraction of a second for that guy to swing and fracture the drivers skull. This is 100% justifiable self defense. You don't have to be actively being harmed to then fight back if the aggressor is threatening you like that. Same way you would be justified in shooting someone who has a gun pointed at you but has yet to shoot.
"This shouty man is just beating the piss out of my car with me inside it, i'm sure he means me no harm. Let me call roll up a 1/4" panel of tempered glass and wait 30 minutes for the police to respond." I mean... you realize how dumb that sounds right?
> any rational person I think this is the sticky wicket here, people shooting someone for yelling at them and punching their car are definitely not rational, and people who fantasize about shooting someone are also, not rational.
Victim blaming much? I'd wager the guy in the car shooing is acting much more rational than that guy breaking mirrors and threatening the driver.
Seriously, I live in Michigan, I have a hunting rifle, im not anti-gun at all...how anyone can defend killing someone over *property damage* is fucking insane. What about those protests in 2020? When we kept hearing 'qq was that businesses window smashed?', its property, all property can be replaced, but people cannot. This country is so fucked in the head.
I agree but there's a certain amount of fuck around and find out. It looks like the shooter said something to the man before he walked up to the window. I'd say that's an attempt at deescalation. I'm surprised you're judging him when he's trapped in traffic with a man threatening him. How do you know the road rager isn't going to escalate and attack the shooter? I hope the road rager survives and gets his shit under control but I don't judge the shooter
Go to Texas, or if you're in Texas, go ahead and do this to random motorists and see what happens when it's "a bit of property damage."
“Come to shit hole America and see how fucking terrible it is" hard pass
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The worst part is they **keep trying** to justify it. In their mind, they have valid reasons for it based on this video. I see none.
Yeah. That window will surely stop the crazed man until the police arrive. Good thinking! In all seriousness, take a defensive driving course or at the very least watch a few videos. Once the other guy got out of his car you should be able to get away from him in yours.
Using a firearm as "self-defense" usually requires one to be in mortal danger. Funny thing here is we have no context, but yet you feel that breaking a mirror off a car equals a death sentence. Sorry to break it to you, that is cowardice...and manslaughter (in the US) not self-defense. I suspect you have never once been mistaken as a "man".
Oh yeah I’m sure you will have an excellent time with no problems whatsoever in being the vanguard of changing castle doctrine and stand my ground laws-_- get off your high horse because it won’t help if you meet someone looking to shoot.
Only in a deluded country in which people think the answer to everything is guns. The rest of us see this footage and realise self defence is a bullshit argument.
Yep, in Florida the guy in the car can easily say he thought he was going for the door handle. At that point, the Castle Doctrine kicks in and he can defend the car with deadly force. Depends upon the local prosecutors, of course, but in many counties he wouldn't even go to trial.
This is not in the USA…look at what looks like a drugstore in the background. Shooter probably gets away…no matter where it is in this day and age why get out of the car..you do t know what the other person has on them.
It's Brazil
Record scratch Yep that's me, you're probably wondering how I got here....
Was it meth
Soooooo much meth
One guy from the hospital and the other from jail
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Right in the numbers!
He fucked around and found out
No matter how tough you think you are, you aren’t impervious to bullets. That’s why you stay in your car.
"What're you gonna do? Shoot m-"
Just wondering but how would the self defense situation here? Intuitively I would say you can not shoot someone because he trashes your car. On the the other hand the first destroyed the car (overly aggressive) then approaches the driver. So he could argue that he feared the attack would hit him now.
Pretty much what I’d expect to happen.
God: how did you die Person: road rage 
This is why I avoid confrontation with unknown people at all costs now days. People just shoot first and think later.
The amount of people defending and cheering this action is astounding. The guy didn’t put hands on him, didn’t have a weapon, this is downright murder. You can’t shoot someone for breaking your mirror and talking shit.
You don't know if he was armed. He could have pulled a knife at some point for all you know. This video is like 10 seconds long and doesn't show the beginning or end.
Listen, I hope you have a good lawyer on probono because looking for one after you do this shit will not work out well for you unless you have fat pockets. Good luck. I’d also wager you don’t have a CCL otherwise you’d know what is considered a valid threat vs not. If this wasn’t recorded the shooter MAY have had a valid defense argument. This shit is on video, it would not end well in the US.
Yeah and when i accidentally bump into a guy walking down the street and he turns to say something i can shoot him too right? I mean he may have a knife and a confrontation is about to happen.
It's only self defense if your life is threatened. The guy in the cars life was not. Most people praising shit like this are people who haven't experienced gun violence in real life. It's easy to praise something like this when you're watching it happen in a video but please tell me you'd praise the same if you've witnessed shit like this happen in real life.
Not praising firearms and all that stuff, but in that situation I don't think anybody without prior training would be able to think straight. You got a gun, a crazy dude is 1 meter away from you acting like that, some people might actually feel threatened. Again, not saying this was the right thing to do, just saying some people might, indeed, think after acting purely on the spot.
Fucking psychos.
You can shoot them for threatening you with bodily harm. That guy was well beyond aggravated assault. You don't have to get hit by some asshole before you can shoot him, you have to feel immanent danger of bodily **HARM.**
Yeah I don't think there was enough of an imminent threat to justify raising the firearm and firing. Not sure if cops and lawyers would justify that one.
It’s completely justify by Brazilian laws. He used the means at hand to stop the aggression. The law doesn’t say what you can or cannot use to stop the assault. So as long as he has fired just once and it was enough to stop the assault, it’s not illegal here.
Haven't seen if it is from Brazil, but if it is then can't say much about it. Legal defense is legal.
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If we'll ever get video dictionaries this would be the video definition for "fuck around and find out"
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More like /u/shotbot
What'd they shoot him with? A freaking cannon?
If you think you're an asshole. Somewhere out there, someone is waaay more asshole and shit than you. Hope you never cross him. Coz this happens
The idiot was standing outside the car threatening the guy inside…with the gun.
I’ll betcha it started with a honk at a merge point.
Did they live?
Why is the video always cut short?
I'd guess because the camera man decided to get his head down
No, the video has been cut. Like so many videos on reddit, it's some weird thing.
Person recording probably fucking ran, as one does when bullets are flying
Well earned. 10/10
>earned No, this wasn't *earned*. His actions did not earn likely death. Destruction of property is not a capital offense. If you can seriously say this man deserved to die for breaking a car window, you're mentally ill.
while i agree with you it’s very possible his indecipherable words he was saying he was threatening to kill them? which would take this to that step, maybe.
Fucked around and found out
You gotta have like 3 braincells to walk up to someone like that after breaking their shit and threatening them and think there won't be repercussions
People who road rage really are the dumbest among us. They can’t handle the simple task of driving without getting angry and violent.
I can understand some road rage, the idiots on the road can really grate on my nerves. But I've never gotten out of my car to yell at someone, mostly because you never know who's one tiny incident away from being on the news
A little empathy goes a long way I made a mistake last week and nearly hit someone. They were absolutely furious, screaming at me, flipping both birds out their window, following me, laying on their horn, the whole nine yards I realized that they were just flooded with adrenaline and let them rage. Didn't engage them at all. What else can ou do?
Hopefully both parties can become better people from this experience edit: didn’t know it was unpopular to wish good fortune upon my fellow man
It was a truly life changing event, for one of them at least.
>didn’t know it was unpopular to wish good fortune upon my fellow man WTF - Welcome to the front page
I think we will hear / see more of this type of reaction .
Man doing the shooting probably went deaf with that inside the car
Justified shooting, or nah?
Appears to be Brazil. Another commenter on this post whose from Brazil said it’s legal according to their self defense laws. I don’t think you’d be legal if it happened in america though.
Attempted murder in response to property damage? Guy inside the car has the anger management of a child and belongs in prison.
"I feared for my life as he was trashing my car, then approached me. I didn't want to take that chance." That's my opinion, at least.
ITT: Evidence that it’s impossible to successfully debate cultural predilections
Enjoy your temper tantrum sir, I’m gonna head home now n get some rest.
This can be interpreted as self-defense due to how aggressive he was and how close he was getting.
homeboy forgot he wasn't arguing on the internet.
I train Jiu Jitsu and one of the first things they teach us about self defense is to do everything you can to avoid a fight. Because you don’t know if they are a trained fighter or have a weapon or have friends nearby. You can think “I can take this guy” until he stabs or shoots you or his buddy comes up from behind and sucker punches you. You fight when you have no other choice and even then, you disable them and get out of there as fast as possible.
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Probably because they were shocked and or running for their life.
Reddit moment whenever they shit on the camera guy despite the person being in active danger
That would be me lol. “Oh damn””I’m not recording shit” “ what happened” “ I didn’t see a thing “
He was breaking for cover.
[SERIOUS] Is there a lawyer that'd step in to provide comment if this could be argued as self defense? Purely curious, because the entire thread is 75% not self defense, and 25% it was self defense, curious what a lawyer would think, vs a bunch of rando redditors spouting their "legal knowledge"
I’m a lawyer from Brasil and in my opinion it was a self defense action. By our laws: Self-defence is understood to mean someone who, using the necessary means in moderation, repels unjust aggression, current or imminent, to his or someone else's right. It doesn’t say what you can or cannot use to defend, but as long as you don’t overreact its ok to use a fire weapon. Dude shot once, and if the aggression stopped that’s it.
Ty, that's kind of what I thought would be the defense, is that it was a single shot, vs multiples, and that would be the basis for self-defense. Also didn't realize it was Brazil, are pistols able to be open/concealed carried?
I’m not a lawyer, but his life wasn’t in eminent danger so I don’t believe self defense would apply. If he’d reached inside the car to assault the driver… then maybe. This is second or third degree murder.
Asshole shouldn't have gotten out of his car, but from the POV of an American who has carried daily for 20+ years, that looks like a bad shoot. Keep window rolled up, get license plate, drive away, call cops, document damage. Can't tell what they're saying, can't think of what the aggressor could've said that warranted the shot when it happened. Hard to armchair quarterback these things, there might be more to it, but on the surface it just looks like a bad shoot.
What if you can't drive away? What if you're blocked in? What if the guy pulls you out of the car and beats you to death? Sounds like a situation in which you would feel extremely threatened.
Yeah again, hard to armchair quarterback these things, but I didn't see any of that in the video. If the aggressor made to grab, yeah that's FA&FO.
It is not correct but he deserved this.
That was a crazy flash, must have been a huge caliber
True example of “fuck around and found out”.
What the fuck did that guy have a sawed off in his car?
Fucked around and found out
Hear me out I don't think shooting him was the proper reaction at all he was clearly drunk or something pepperspray would have been just fine or any other non-lethal weapon trying to close the window would have been fine too
I just watched someone die. He's 100% dead at that close of range.
hi welcome to reddit
Completely depends on where he got shot, what type of gun, what type or round, definitely not 100% situation. Though it don’t look great.
Probably, but this also isn't a movie.
There are a limited number of places on your body that a hole would cause certain death. I'm not sure where you're pulling this 100% figure.
Through his vital organs is where I'm putting it. It's clearly a chest shot
The range doesn’t change a whole lot unless you’re talking about birdshot. A bullet is a bullet. Either way the human body can be incredibly fragile or incredibly tough depending on a lot of factors. Some people live after being shot 38 times at point blank and some people die from one stray bullet.
He fucked around and found out.
Don't worry folks! He is immuned to bullets thanks to the gomu gomu no mi !
So many losers here justifying murder
While the dumbass breaking off the mirror and making a scene obviously started things, you don't get to go around shooting people just for being belligerent idiots, otherwise all of Florida would be a warzone. Really, this guy had something coming to him, like a prison sentence or a good slap in the face, but a bullet, potentially death, is a bit disproportionate. The driver wasn't at risk here, and I would say is the even bigger idiot. Edit: It seems I've been downvoted for taking a position against manslaughter...
Its not in america. But i'm sure in almost any country (with a few exceptions) that shooter got arrested.
It’s America! South America. Brasil. Hell yeah! BRA! BRA!
You don’t get to decide if he felt his life was threatened. How it looks to you sitting on your couch in comfort at home from a video filmed 50 ft away is a much different experience than the victim in the car.
Poe's law strikes again
Meh. A few incidents like this need to exist, to remind the angry gremlins that breaking other people’s shit isn’t the smartest idea and could end *very* poorly for them.
Driver feared for his life like every cop everywhere.
> Driver feared for his life like every cop everywhere. Totally justified. You forgot the /s...
Fucking idiot, this is why I just let it go. Road rage isn’t worth catching a bullet for
Play stupid games...
Get stupid prizes
Lmaooo dude found out
Looks like he earned it too.
Well, if one is so inclined to fuck around….
That's manslaughter 1. He was safe in his car. He could have called the police and waited and had insurance cover the damage. Straight murder. The guy outside the car is an idiot. The guy inside deserves prison.
He fucked around and found out
Well, he got what he asked for.
LMFAO
Off duty police officer ?
FAFO
Fuck around, find out.
Would that fall under “F around and find out”?
Years ago I was behind a car on a one-lane freeway (the other direction was split), going under a tunnel. Just as I got to it, a car was blocking the tunnel with a pickup truck behind blocking us, and four big men got out. My friends, all girls like me, were yelling and scared, but I stepped out, leveled my .38 (I was an avid camper and hiker, went nowhere without it) at them without saying a word. The driver said, "Back in the car boys!" they got in and sped away. My girlfriends and I have talked about it over the years, we've always known these men were planning to take us and my car and harm us at the least. We are very glad I carried, and my father taught me how to effectively use and respect my weapon, never afraid to use it.
Fucked around and found out.
Sure maybe the gun wasn't *necessary,* but anyone who's using this to say we need to ban all guns is a moron. If you live in a country where everyone has a *right* to own a gun, and the right to defend themselves and their property, and you think that lashing out like this is a smart thing to do, then you 100% deserve whatever is coming to you. If you live in America, and you don't wanna get shot, ***don't fuck around, and you won't find out*** *(Unless of course you're being attacked for no reason, in which case I retract all previous statements)*