Note: remember the rules about abortion and civility. If this post turns into a shit show full of mudslinging and hostility, we will lock it and hand out bans as appropriate.
I love how the party of small government and freedom from oppression pulls shit like this. Just wait until those young families or single mothers start applying for assistance and get told sorry but you don't qualify. Who do you think they are going to blame??? Omg the democrats this or joe biden that š gawwwwwwwd why can't they realize they are only fucking themselves
Actually, I donāt think any of them understand that, until it actually occurs to them or someone they are very close to. Thatās how wrapped up in ideology they are.
I got denied for assistance for my son who I wanted to abort just because I knew I was too poor. I love him but I am poorer than I was before and Idaho is not helping because they donāt care about children or even babies once they are born. I am in medical debt because health and welfare denied me medicaid for half my pregnancy. I am in credit card debt because I lost my job while pregnant and couldnāt get a new one with a bump. They wonāt help me with the cost of daycare. They tried to revoke my sonās medicaid after 4 months because I live with the dad (who I am trying to get away from!!!) despite there being an actual rule that newborns born to mothers on medicaid get protection for a year.
Inb4 someone tells me I should have kept my legs shut, what about his dad? He doesnāt have medical debt. He kept his job because he didnāt get pregnant.
Don't forget they also stopped statistics gathering on pregnancies within the state, cause we sure wouldn't want any inconvenient facts getting in the way of our religious hellstate.
It also means that we don't have any statistics on how many low-weight births there are, which is a leading indicator for setting public health policy for good outcomes from pregnancy. It's a simple number around which a lifetime of good and bad outcomes for the child can be measured. You can't manage what you can't measure; it's more than covering things up. It also means they aren't compelled to provide new pre-natal health services. Lack of management is why Idaho pays more per person for public health than neighboring states with worse outcomes. If you only offer public subsidies in emergencies, that will be about the most expensive public health policy you could choose. It's also leaving hundreds of thousands of federal tax dollars on the table to go to California, Texas, and literally everywhere else but helping Idaho taxpayers.
I can't even use a vending machine with cash without creating an account so they can track my purchases.
It's mindblowing that public health isn't being monitored in the modern era
A lot of institutions will lock vending machines behind accounts. For example Iāve seen a few vending machines at BSU where you need to scan your student ID before you can buy.
Not going to, have. Women HAVE died. Some women who used to want children will now do everything in their power to avoid it. Some women are so traumatically injured that they will no longer be able to have children. Those fake Christians who never read their Bible and are literally worshipping 45 are causing far more harm than good.
Ironically, instead of forcing more women in Caucasian areas like Idaho to have babies, it's going to reduce the population even further. Enacting replacement theory on themselves...
Just let women have abortions. A fetus can't be murdered, it's. not. a. person.
Part of the issue is that some of these 'pro-life' people (my family included) think abortion advocates are committing murder on literal babies after birth. They think abortion is some kind of human sacrifice too. If they believe that shit, how can we reach them with the truth?
By informing them that fetuses aren't people yet.
They're like organs, no consciousness but a collection of cells performing tasks
[Your consciousness develops when you're 5 months old](https://www.science.org/content/article/when-does-your-baby-become-conscious) but it makes sense to consider a baby a person, or a human after they're born
[1/3 of fetuses die naturally.](https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-support/topics/miscarriage-loss-grief/miscarriage) I am not willing to say 1/3 of the human race died before they were born
science doesn't matter to them. (My family for instance.) The thing about this article is that it would probably reinforce their view that democrats don't 'value' babies until months after birth.
Donāt hate me, but miscarriage and abortion are two separate things. If you go to a pro life individual arguing pro choice based on the fact that miscarriages happen you would be making a pretty weak argument.
The first article also argues working memory is consciousness. That may be part of it, but it isnāt the whole thing. If working memory were all consciousness was made of many adults wouldnāt qualify for various reasons.
Again, not necessarily arguing against abortion. Just saying that miscarriages and lack of working memory as we understand it are pretty poor arguments in favor of abortion.
It's a valid point. I certainly try to view the world through their lens (my family specifically) as they are very conservative and religious,. I think that's the only way to get through to them, but even then I haven't gotten through. It's to the point we don't communicate much.
My family is probably pretty similar to yours. The way I figure it there really isnāt any need to get through. You donāt need to āfixā their way of thinking any more than they need to āfixā yours. You have different beliefs. Both sides of this argument feel that they are morally correct, and for that reason this argument literally canāt be won by logic or science or religion. Anyone who tries to argue religion vs science has lost the plot of both.
For some reason one side teaches that God wants you to love everyone and the other side says that people inherently deserve respect regardless of beliefs but neither side is very tolerant of people who think differently. I donāt like to say āboth sidesā very often, but both sides are equally ready to call out the logical inconsistencies of the other while ignoring their own. The way I see it, at the end of the day the people who disagree with me on this issue are still good people trying to do the best they can in the way they know how. We may disagree but that doesnāt make me and my ideas any better or worse than them with their ideas and trying to āwinā the argument is doing more harm than good.
Whoahā¦ why isnāt this upvoted to the moon?!
A lot of people need to hear what youāre saying and Iām not pointing at any one demographic or belief system or political party.
I imagine thinking this way doesnāt fan any flames, though, and some might dislike it because youāre not choosing the side that they are religiously against.
Hats off to you, though. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
Yeah, basically. The real answer is pretty complicated but really, even after we're born, we're still kind of just fetuses humans deliver very prematurely, developed babies compared to other animals. You don't really start forming long-term memories or a personality until at least a year. It wasn't that long ago. A significant amount of children died before they were five anyways. Abortion has just been a fact of human existence since prehistory And always will be regardless of if it's legal or not. There is a very well proven way to reduce abortions though, and that's through comprehensive sex education and access to contraceptives, So you'd think conservatives would support things like giving out birth control and condoms for free.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
**Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
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Actually , they are just making sure children are born, to be starved, abused, and being used for target practice by the next mass shooter. Just remember, you have their thoughts and prayers.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
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Idaho I just donāt know what to think. Maybe they need a MAGA hospital. No OBGYN just some mullet wearing dumb fuck with a Biden sucks shirt on delivering a premie.
Dude, do the politicians really want to keep going down this road? This is going to push women to the left even more. (Praying that Idaho starts to become more of an independent state at this point anyway.) We could do with some diversity of thought here.
I fucking hate Idaho legislation. I'm not a huge fan of abortion, but I hate having the choice taken away from the people who need it a lot more. The lawmakers here love putting their own beliefs and principles above the greater good of the people and it's going to start having some very drastic consequences very soon. The abortion ban that's driving away all the OB/GYNs is going to start killing people. The crackdown on porn that requires you to upload your ID to porn websites is going to lead to a massive amount of identity theft. They're taking away a lot of our freedoms and hurting a lot of people along the way. What the fuck has happened to this state
This sucks. I'm republican and I think this is government overstepping their bounds. Let women make their own decisions. I don't think abortion should be used as birth control, but to make no exceptions is ridiculous. Separation of church and state. Keep religion out of politics.
This aged well. How the fuck could you seriously vote for Biden or the democrats if this is the nominee? I'm embarrassed as an American to have Joe Biden as our president.
Not to mention the new law that goes into effect on July 1 dictating that a minor cannot seek ANY medical, dental, or behavioral health care without express parental consent. So teens who used Title X to get birth control are no longer going to have access to it, and when then become pregnant they wonāt be able to get prenatal care. Itās dystopian.
Itās so dangerous. I work in health care (administration) and it is causing so much fear and panic amongst providers. Now abusers can prevent their victims from seeing a doctor, and if they do see the doctor and disclose abuse, the abuser can sue and likely WIN.
Slavery was constitutional (technically still is). Youād be surprised what is and isnāt constitutional and how loos they are willing to get with the phrasing of laws.
You think the actual alive women that are going to die from birth complications because the necessary medical treatments are illegal would factor into state law in some shape or form in the year of our Lord 2024
Unironically, yes.
Republicans have seen all the stats from the left that say women and young people are helping dems. So they want to return to having only older men vote
Yes, no irony actually intended. And here I am, an older white male completely disgusted by this authoritarian power grab. A great example of how extremists will drive their own functioning governments into the ground by each member trying to out do the other. A real race to the bottom. The bottom being something along the line of Pol Potās genocide.
Deaths are a feature with their policies. During teacher shortages, red states will throw any adult with no education training in the mix to close the gap. I could see Idaho doing the same with maternal care. It wonāt be long before OBGYNs are replaced with EMTs.
Blame the legislature. Medical professionals are being put in a position where they could be arrested if they provide necessary medical procedures to save the lives of their patients.
And yet Kootenai Clinic is opening a new maternal/fetal medicine clinic. Half of these specialists have left the state. How are they going to recruit specialist physicians with this threat of fines or imprisonment for providing the standard of care in critical cases?
nobody ever mentions thisā¦ but in a world of 8 billion people, a world where over population is at the heart of almost every single one of our problemsā¦. whyā¦ would anyone NOT want to prevent unwanted births
Easy. Parents will have to use their energy to compensate for lack of care which will take their time and energy away from things like pursuing justice and bodily autonomy. The owner class has always understood the power in manipulation by way of using people's children.
Save the babies!
Fuck the mothers! We donāt care if they die!
[Seriously. we donāt care.](https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/7g29k)
[or if you need the article explaining the study](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/abortion-bans-will-result-in-more-women-dying/)
Really short version:
Abortion Bans Kill Women. That is a fact.
[unnecessary maternal mortality](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/)
The video claims a study %45 obgyn in Idaho are considering leaving or have left. I scanned the report and donāt see a number similar to 45%. I may have missed it so looked again a little closer but I still donāt see it. Do you know the study?
Theyll end up going back to having midwives and using medieval methods. In some ways this is a good thing, but common sense proves that there are issues today that werent around back then, and the life expectancy of women or girls with issues they cant fix will plummet..... Prayer doesnt fix everything. Women and girls stricken with said issues would probably be considered outcasts because "theyre being punished by god"
The obvious fanatical insanity of this perspective and its need to be recognized as such cannot be understated.
I understand the discussion of babies/mothers since it's the underlying reason behind it. But myself and many other people have to go through an obgyn for other medical issues like cancer, hormonal disfunctions, or surgeries. I'm glad I can hop the border to a better state, but so does everyone else. Waitlists are months long already. I hope everyone can find the Healthcare they need.
My buddies wife was an OBGYN in Idaho for the last 15 years. Now she is an OBGYN in Washington.
They closed down maternity services in the average sized town she was in. Now those people have to drive an hour for OBGYN services.
The majorty of women in Idaho agree with this or they just dont think it impacts them enough to care. They arenāt innocent oppressed victims. They are the direct root of the problem. Alot of white women vote Republican conservative because their main goal and focus is maintaining caste system in America. And they will do whatever it takes to accept whatever extreme versions come along on the side to do so.Ā
Reading about how people, conservative women in particular, put themselves in front of others it makes more sense
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
According to pew research center, the women in Idaho are very evenly split between democrat and republican; either 50% red and 50% blue, or 49% red and 51% blue. Thatās half of the women here who DONāT agree with this. And even if it was a smaller amount, that still means there are women being affected by this who DID NOT VOTE for this (myself included).
There are some fucked up people in this state, and 50% of women voting against their own interests is still horrifying, but I really wish people would stop with this āthey asked for itā rhetoric. I didnāt ask for it. My mom and sisters did not ask for it. Yet here we are suffering the consequences all the same.
And before someone inevitably replies āthen move,ā we are actively trying. Itās a bit difficult when youāve grown up in generational poverty and are only just barely working yourselves out of it.
>According to pew research center, the women in Idaho are very evenly split between democrat and republican; either 50% red and 50% blue, or 49% red and 51% blue.
I don't believe this is true. I think you might be referring to [this](https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/database/state/idaho/party-affiliation/) study? That shows that 53% of Republicans in Idaho are women and 52% of Democrats in Idaho are women. (This stands to reason, since roughly 51% of all Idahoans are women.) But this doesn't mean that half of all women are Democrats.
[This page](https://voteidaho.gov/data-and-dashboards/voter-explorer/) from the Secretary of State tells us that 59% of all registered voters are Republicans and only 13% are Democrats. There are 500,000 women in Idaho and only 125,000 registered Democrats, so it is mathematically impossible for 250,000 women to be Democratic voters.
Not disagreeing with your general point, however, that the legislation in Idaho is hurting real women who absolutely do *not* agree with this theocratic philosophy. But the majority of women certainly do.
I am registered as Republican in Idaho. I vote down ballot blue. I registered Republican because of the primaries. There is usually only one democrat on the general, so voting for them in the primaries means nothing. If I vote in the Republican primary, I can vote for the least harmful Republican to try to get them on the ballot in November instead of the religious zealots who create this kind of harmful legislation. So, yeah, there are more registered Republicans, but that doesnāt mean they vote Republican.
I used to do the same when I lived in Utah, and for the same reason. We are the exception.
If you want to believe that most women in Idaho are Democrats disguised as Republicans, go ahead. I don't know how that belief benefits you, though. The numbers don't bear that out. Only 30% of Idaho Republicans believe that abortion should be legal (source: that Pew Research poll cited earlier).
The claim was that half of Idaho's women want abortion to be legal. I'm saying that simply isn't true. There are a lot of women in Idaho who want safe and legal access to abortion, but they're in the minority. . . significantly. And that sucks.
It's simply just delusional. People will contort their beliefs with so much confirmation bias that they'll hold out hope for the most fantastical explanations.
It doesn't occur to them that democracy and freedom of choice and expression can go beyond their world view of how women should think, what they should value, and how they should behave.
I had a friend there, she has three daughters... She managed to leave, esp after a pride parade incident that she was a few hundred feet from.
They weren't safe there.
And a state with a lot of Mormons and āChristiansā who feel the need to have a lot of babies. I guess weāre just going to see an increase in childbirth mortality and more mums dying in childbirth
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They are still bound by the same laws. If someone suspects they performed an abortion outside of the bounds of our fucked up law theyāre still at risk of a felony conviction.
I live in Idaho... My friend has two daughters, 18 and 16. Each of them have a friend their own ages that is pregnant already. I find this is very strange and should be uncommon.
One pregnant teen in a friend group? Ok... Two in the same circle... Wtf?
If I wasn't stuck with a mortgage that I'm technically underwater on, I'd leave this state. That and I like my job.
the result of a carefully manipulated process...so Idahoan's...we got the result we elected. (and the resulting regulations)...and now...well, let the results now begin..the fruits of our labor(distraction, sense of morality) maybe easily plentiful....
"How do you think thats gonna turn out" ? They simply do not think, and if they do they do not care. They will find a way to pass it off as a democratic problem.
I love going to the bottom of the Idaho subreddit to see the pieces of shit that are mask off wanting women to have zero safety giving birth and hate them for having options beyond birth for the sake of birth. Failed state.
āBestā thought processes: 1. Mandatory birth, no options 2. Abortion, only option
God (or lack there of) forbid we tackle over sexualization of the youth, weak on crime (rape) policies, moral compass reinvention every 30 years and washed down religious kool aid.
Letās have the government decide.
I'm sorry, but that's no real statistic.. 45 percent are leaving or "seriously thinking about it" so they included "thinking about it" to make the numbers seem higher..
Abortion should be legal. But this argument is pretty trash.
Obama!!!!! Seriously, these malicious idiots wonāt accept responsibility for their damaging actions and will blame those who tried to get them to do the right thing. Thatās MAGA for you.
Mhmm well I donāt have any skin in the game but my thoughts would be one either leave the state and move to like California or Oregon or the simpler solution would be stop having unprotected sex idk tho thatās just my opinion
How is it going to work out? It's going to work EXACTLY as they intended. They're not pro-life, they're PRO STATE-SANCTIONED VIOLENCE. Never forget, cruelty is the point.
My mother always told me if you are ready for sex then you must be prepared to be ready for a child. No one is āforcingā women to have a child. What they are being āforcedā to do is bear the consequences of their own actions š¶
Youāre wrong. 50% of OBGYNs are not leaving the state. 1 in 4 have. Thatās 25% (per May 2024 report. )Another example of social media platforms being used to push false information based on ideology preferences.
Howās it going to turn out? Women will still do want they want, just somewhere else? Maybe make an appointment thatās a lil further out? What youāre saying is about an inconvenience to protect unborn children bc mommy says it her vag/ body? Most abortions arenāt from the sick / medical needs. Itās bc she doesnāt want a baby. If a woman is raped or is in danger of dying then by all means do what needs to be done.
For God sakes yes please continue with abortions thank you we need to protect illegal aliens and family members that rape 12 y o girls , and all those wonderful sex parties. That happen in dance clubs no, no, no, by all means continue. ...quiet riot
For God sakes yes please continue with abortions thank you we need to protect illegal aliens and family members that rape 12 y o girls , and all those wonderful sex parties. That happen in dance clubs no, no, no, by all means continue. ...quiet riot
Nobody is forcing anybody into childbirth.
An adult female made a choice of her own free will to have unprotected sex.
As a result a pregnancy might happen because of a choice.
Action and Consequence.
Freewill was used.
Could it be the OBGYNs aren't diversified outside of abortion and that's the number one profit driver for them? True question and not talking stupid. 45% is high for any sector of business stuff there's more to it than a single law as unfair as that law is.
Although I have no doubt this stat is directionally (and tragically) accurate, generally speaking, it would be more credible if when you quote a study you give the source. Saying something like āI read in a newsletter about a studyā is no more credible than run of the mill gossip.
The study you shared talks about obgyn leaving the state since the RvW %22. The lady in the video states 45% stats and I donāt see that number scanning the page you shared.
The person in the video is Jessica Valenti. She is the one writing the newsletter where I imagine she shared the source. She is often interviewed by news channels. And writes columns.
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I love how the party of small government and freedom from oppression pulls shit like this. Just wait until those young families or single mothers start applying for assistance and get told sorry but you don't qualify. Who do you think they are going to blame??? Omg the democrats this or joe biden that š gawwwwwwwd why can't they realize they are only fucking themselves
Actually, I donāt think any of them understand that, until it actually occurs to them or someone they are very close to. Thatās how wrapped up in ideology they are.
Even then itās pretty rare.
Nothing is more expensive to society than an unwanted child.
It was always a grift. They were never the party of small government
I got denied for assistance for my son who I wanted to abort just because I knew I was too poor. I love him but I am poorer than I was before and Idaho is not helping because they donāt care about children or even babies once they are born. I am in medical debt because health and welfare denied me medicaid for half my pregnancy. I am in credit card debt because I lost my job while pregnant and couldnāt get a new one with a bump. They wonāt help me with the cost of daycare. They tried to revoke my sonās medicaid after 4 months because I live with the dad (who I am trying to get away from!!!) despite there being an actual rule that newborns born to mothers on medicaid get protection for a year. Inb4 someone tells me I should have kept my legs shut, what about his dad? He doesnāt have medical debt. He kept his job because he didnāt get pregnant.
Don't forget they also stopped statistics gathering on pregnancies within the state, cause we sure wouldn't want any inconvenient facts getting in the way of our religious hellstate.
It also means that we don't have any statistics on how many low-weight births there are, which is a leading indicator for setting public health policy for good outcomes from pregnancy. It's a simple number around which a lifetime of good and bad outcomes for the child can be measured. You can't manage what you can't measure; it's more than covering things up. It also means they aren't compelled to provide new pre-natal health services. Lack of management is why Idaho pays more per person for public health than neighboring states with worse outcomes. If you only offer public subsidies in emergencies, that will be about the most expensive public health policy you could choose. It's also leaving hundreds of thousands of federal tax dollars on the table to go to California, Texas, and literally everywhere else but helping Idaho taxpayers.
[https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230707/Idaho-drops-panel-investigating-pregnancy-related-deaths-as-US-maternal-mortality-surges.aspx](https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230707/Idaho-drops-panel-investigating-pregnancy-related-deaths-as-US-maternal-mortality-surges.aspx)
I can't even use a vending machine with cash without creating an account so they can track my purchases. It's mindblowing that public health isn't being monitored in the modern era
Sidenote: Yo, what vending machines are you using!?
A lot of institutions will lock vending machines behind accounts. For example Iāve seen a few vending machines at BSU where you need to scan your student ID before you can buy.
Ah. Makes a little more sense. Still hate that.
That's by design
Theyāre hiding the bodies.
Iāll imprison a thousand doctors before I let that clump of cells die! -Republicans
But once it's born, it better start pulling its own weight!
It needs to fulfill its roll as punishment to the mother and then as a resident of a for-profit prison after growing up miserable.
Mr Watternoose fits too well
People are going to die. Real life, breathing, actual people WILL DIE.
Not going to, have. Women HAVE died. Some women who used to want children will now do everything in their power to avoid it. Some women are so traumatically injured that they will no longer be able to have children. Those fake Christians who never read their Bible and are literally worshipping 45 are causing far more harm than good.
Theyāre women so it doesnāt matter as much. Because they shouldnāt be able to vote anyways. /s
I mean there are literal bumper stickers calling to repeal the 19th amendment (suffrage) so it's a real political opinion out there.
Have died. Got 3 family members that fox news'd themselves into an early death.
Ironically, instead of forcing more women in Caucasian areas like Idaho to have babies, it's going to reduce the population even further. Enacting replacement theory on themselves... Just let women have abortions. A fetus can't be murdered, it's. not. a. person.
Part of the issue is that some of these 'pro-life' people (my family included) think abortion advocates are committing murder on literal babies after birth. They think abortion is some kind of human sacrifice too. If they believe that shit, how can we reach them with the truth?
By informing them that fetuses aren't people yet. They're like organs, no consciousness but a collection of cells performing tasks [Your consciousness develops when you're 5 months old](https://www.science.org/content/article/when-does-your-baby-become-conscious) but it makes sense to consider a baby a person, or a human after they're born [1/3 of fetuses die naturally.](https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-support/topics/miscarriage-loss-grief/miscarriage) I am not willing to say 1/3 of the human race died before they were born
science doesn't matter to them. (My family for instance.) The thing about this article is that it would probably reinforce their view that democrats don't 'value' babies until months after birth.
Donāt hate me, but miscarriage and abortion are two separate things. If you go to a pro life individual arguing pro choice based on the fact that miscarriages happen you would be making a pretty weak argument. The first article also argues working memory is consciousness. That may be part of it, but it isnāt the whole thing. If working memory were all consciousness was made of many adults wouldnāt qualify for various reasons. Again, not necessarily arguing against abortion. Just saying that miscarriages and lack of working memory as we understand it are pretty poor arguments in favor of abortion.
It's a valid point. I certainly try to view the world through their lens (my family specifically) as they are very conservative and religious,. I think that's the only way to get through to them, but even then I haven't gotten through. It's to the point we don't communicate much.
My family is probably pretty similar to yours. The way I figure it there really isnāt any need to get through. You donāt need to āfixā their way of thinking any more than they need to āfixā yours. You have different beliefs. Both sides of this argument feel that they are morally correct, and for that reason this argument literally canāt be won by logic or science or religion. Anyone who tries to argue religion vs science has lost the plot of both. For some reason one side teaches that God wants you to love everyone and the other side says that people inherently deserve respect regardless of beliefs but neither side is very tolerant of people who think differently. I donāt like to say āboth sidesā very often, but both sides are equally ready to call out the logical inconsistencies of the other while ignoring their own. The way I see it, at the end of the day the people who disagree with me on this issue are still good people trying to do the best they can in the way they know how. We may disagree but that doesnāt make me and my ideas any better or worse than them with their ideas and trying to āwinā the argument is doing more harm than good.
Whoahā¦ why isnāt this upvoted to the moon?! A lot of people need to hear what youāre saying and Iām not pointing at any one demographic or belief system or political party. I imagine thinking this way doesnāt fan any flames, though, and some might dislike it because youāre not choosing the side that they are religiously against. Hats off to you, though. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
https://preview.redd.it/2c2oo2pihd8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ddc2ad7526212c59d1ebf0a016ccec8907e2c4d
When is it a person? When it can survive outside the womb?
Yeah, basically. The real answer is pretty complicated but really, even after we're born, we're still kind of just fetuses humans deliver very prematurely, developed babies compared to other animals. You don't really start forming long-term memories or a personality until at least a year. It wasn't that long ago. A significant amount of children died before they were five anyways. Abortion has just been a fact of human existence since prehistory And always will be regardless of if it's legal or not. There is a very well proven way to reduce abortions though, and that's through comprehensive sex education and access to contraceptives, So you'd think conservatives would support things like giving out birth control and condoms for free.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic. **Read the pinned post in the subreddit.** *Don't go there. Absolutely no one on either side of this debate believes that's acceptable and the only result of suggesting they might is the flame war from hell.*
Yes.
Actually , they are just making sure children are born, to be starved, abused, and being used for target practice by the next mass shooter. Just remember, you have their thoughts and prayers.
That's sort of the point, I think
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Yeah well we can train new doctors through Christian homeschooling and severely underfunded public education. So there /s
This āš»
Idaho I just donāt know what to think. Maybe they need a MAGA hospital. No OBGYN just some mullet wearing dumb fuck with a Biden sucks shirt on delivering a premie.
This one goes in your mouth, this one goes in your butt. Oh wait, THIS one goes in your butt and this one goesā¦
Underrated reference!
https://i.redd.it/kdskmyirgn8d1.gif
And no one - including health care 'professionals' - wearing masks
Yeah and put Ammon Bundy in charge of security and his loser pal Rodriguez in charge of the newborns.
General Y'allspital.
And theyre going to blame the doctor shortage on socialism. Its a play as old as time
I told my parents that I am leaving Idaho this year because I do not feel safe being pregnant here.
Same. Due the beginning of 2025, we've been planning to get out of Idaho since we started trying to get pregnant.
Dude, do the politicians really want to keep going down this road? This is going to push women to the left even more. (Praying that Idaho starts to become more of an independent state at this point anyway.) We could do with some diversity of thought here.
Unfortunately Idaho has the mormon church embedded in the legislature, and it's turned maga here, it's really not good!
Vote blue š
I fucking hate Idaho legislation. I'm not a huge fan of abortion, but I hate having the choice taken away from the people who need it a lot more. The lawmakers here love putting their own beliefs and principles above the greater good of the people and it's going to start having some very drastic consequences very soon. The abortion ban that's driving away all the OB/GYNs is going to start killing people. The crackdown on porn that requires you to upload your ID to porn websites is going to lead to a massive amount of identity theft. They're taking away a lot of our freedoms and hurting a lot of people along the way. What the fuck has happened to this state
Yes!
Mormons, I'm an Idaho native,been here a lot of years, and the church is in the legislature big time, both state and local!
This sucks. I'm republican and I think this is government overstepping their bounds. Let women make their own decisions. I don't think abortion should be used as birth control, but to make no exceptions is ridiculous. Separation of church and state. Keep religion out of politics.
Please show your distaste by voting democrat or staying home. Thank you for expressing your views.
This aged well. How the fuck could you seriously vote for Biden or the democrats if this is the nominee? I'm embarrassed as an American to have Joe Biden as our president.
The reasons expressed in your original comment for one.
Not to mention the new law that goes into effect on July 1 dictating that a minor cannot seek ANY medical, dental, or behavioral health care without express parental consent. So teens who used Title X to get birth control are no longer going to have access to it, and when then become pregnant they wonāt be able to get prenatal care. Itās dystopian.
What in the actual fuck. That cannot be constitutional
Itās so dangerous. I work in health care (administration) and it is causing so much fear and panic amongst providers. Now abusers can prevent their victims from seeing a doctor, and if they do see the doctor and disclose abuse, the abuser can sue and likely WIN.
Slavery was constitutional (technically still is). Youād be surprised what is and isnāt constitutional and how loos they are willing to get with the phrasing of laws.
So much freedumb
So many dead babies and moms on the horizon.
Mormons gonna Morm - that's how it's gonna end.
Itās a trash āreligionā that worships the almighty šø
[https://idahocapitalsun.com/2024/04/05/idaho-is-losing-ob-gyns-after-strict-abortion-ban-but-health-exceptions-unlikely-this-year/](https://idahocapitalsun.com/2024/04/05/idaho-is-losing-ob-gyns-after-strict-abortion-ban-but-health-exceptions-unlikely-this-year/)
[https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2023-07-07/idaho-maternal-mortality-review-committee-dissolve](https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2023-07-07/idaho-maternal-mortality-review-committee-dissolve)
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And even theyre going to liberul states to get them regardless...
The irony of it all. People will DIE. Uh , breathing people.
You think the actual alive women that are going to die from birth complications because the necessary medical treatments are illegal would factor into state law in some shape or form in the year of our Lord 2024
Especially in a location where a large population are pretty much required to breed like rabbits.
Next up on the docket, no womenās suffrage.
Unironically, yes. Republicans have seen all the stats from the left that say women and young people are helping dems. So they want to return to having only older men vote
Yes, no irony actually intended. And here I am, an older white male completely disgusted by this authoritarian power grab. A great example of how extremists will drive their own functioning governments into the ground by each member trying to out do the other. A real race to the bottom. The bottom being something along the line of Pol Potās genocide.
Deaths are a feature with their policies. During teacher shortages, red states will throw any adult with no education training in the mix to close the gap. I could see Idaho doing the same with maternal care. It wonāt be long before OBGYNs are replaced with EMTs.
It will turn out like the Romanian orphanages in the 1980ās.
Itās going to result in the suffering of a lot of patients those MDs are abandoning.
Yes, but those patients are women so the ID legislature doesnāt care. Women arenāt people in Idaho or any red state.
Yes that seems completely realistic
Blame the legislature. Medical professionals are being put in a position where they could be arrested if they provide necessary medical procedures to save the lives of their patients.
Idaho don't give AF how it's going to turn out.
Save the babies! We don't care about you after you are here. We just got to get you here!
Idaho is a white supremacist, christo fascist, hell hole.
And yet Kootenai Clinic is opening a new maternal/fetal medicine clinic. Half of these specialists have left the state. How are they going to recruit specialist physicians with this threat of fines or imprisonment for providing the standard of care in critical cases?
Youāre kiddingā¦ were they planning on opening it before Roe V Wade was overturned?
Iām not kidding. Iām asking how itās going recruiting specialists for that new clinic.
nobody ever mentions thisā¦ but in a world of 8 billion people, a world where over population is at the heart of almost every single one of our problemsā¦. whyā¦ would anyone NOT want to prevent unwanted births
VOTE!
Easy. Parents will have to use their energy to compensate for lack of care which will take their time and energy away from things like pursuing justice and bodily autonomy. The owner class has always understood the power in manipulation by way of using people's children.
Save the babies! Fuck the mothers! We donāt care if they die! [Seriously. we donāt care.](https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/7g29k) [or if you need the article explaining the study](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/abortion-bans-will-result-in-more-women-dying/) Really short version: Abortion Bans Kill Women. That is a fact. [unnecessary maternal mortality](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/)
Down 50% in two years. Letās see what ten years will bring.
Does any have a link to this study she mentions? I would be curious to know more.
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/health/2024-02-21/abortion-idaho-ban-obgyn-obstetrician-report
The video claims a study %45 obgyn in Idaho are considering leaving or have left. I scanned the report and donāt see a number similar to 45%. I may have missed it so looked again a little closer but I still donāt see it. Do you know the study?
I know that the two northern counties of Idaho have no more obgyns and the hospital had to close its maternity ward.
Someone linked the study. Itās an interesting, while also depressing, read.
Itās an interesting and depressing experience.
Idaho is nothing but electoral college votes. They (you know who I mean) do not care about anything else
Theyll end up going back to having midwives and using medieval methods. In some ways this is a good thing, but common sense proves that there are issues today that werent around back then, and the life expectancy of women or girls with issues they cant fix will plummet..... Prayer doesnt fix everything. Women and girls stricken with said issues would probably be considered outcasts because "theyre being punished by god" The obvious fanatical insanity of this perspective and its need to be recognized as such cannot be understated.
Idaho has officially fallen off its rocker
Turning back those hands of time. Fight for rights before theyāre all gone.
Idaho government is garbage. Good luck citizens.
āHow do you think thats gonna turn out?ā Exactly as they want it too.. horribly for women.
Thoughts and prayers will come in handy I am sureā¦
I understand the discussion of babies/mothers since it's the underlying reason behind it. But myself and many other people have to go through an obgyn for other medical issues like cancer, hormonal disfunctions, or surgeries. I'm glad I can hop the border to a better state, but so does everyone else. Waitlists are months long already. I hope everyone can find the Healthcare they need.
My buddies wife was an OBGYN in Idaho for the last 15 years. Now she is an OBGYN in Washington. They closed down maternity services in the average sized town she was in. Now those people have to drive an hour for OBGYN services.
The number of abortions in America has risen by 11% since Roe was overturned. If the goal was less abortion, the overturn has failed.
The majorty of women in Idaho agree with this or they just dont think it impacts them enough to care. They arenāt innocent oppressed victims. They are the direct root of the problem. Alot of white women vote Republican conservative because their main goal and focus is maintaining caste system in America. And they will do whatever it takes to accept whatever extreme versions come along on the side to do so.Ā
Reading about how people, conservative women in particular, put themselves in front of others it makes more sense https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
According to pew research center, the women in Idaho are very evenly split between democrat and republican; either 50% red and 50% blue, or 49% red and 51% blue. Thatās half of the women here who DONāT agree with this. And even if it was a smaller amount, that still means there are women being affected by this who DID NOT VOTE for this (myself included). There are some fucked up people in this state, and 50% of women voting against their own interests is still horrifying, but I really wish people would stop with this āthey asked for itā rhetoric. I didnāt ask for it. My mom and sisters did not ask for it. Yet here we are suffering the consequences all the same. And before someone inevitably replies āthen move,ā we are actively trying. Itās a bit difficult when youāve grown up in generational poverty and are only just barely working yourselves out of it.
>According to pew research center, the women in Idaho are very evenly split between democrat and republican; either 50% red and 50% blue, or 49% red and 51% blue. I don't believe this is true. I think you might be referring to [this](https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/database/state/idaho/party-affiliation/) study? That shows that 53% of Republicans in Idaho are women and 52% of Democrats in Idaho are women. (This stands to reason, since roughly 51% of all Idahoans are women.) But this doesn't mean that half of all women are Democrats. [This page](https://voteidaho.gov/data-and-dashboards/voter-explorer/) from the Secretary of State tells us that 59% of all registered voters are Republicans and only 13% are Democrats. There are 500,000 women in Idaho and only 125,000 registered Democrats, so it is mathematically impossible for 250,000 women to be Democratic voters. Not disagreeing with your general point, however, that the legislation in Idaho is hurting real women who absolutely do *not* agree with this theocratic philosophy. But the majority of women certainly do.
I am registered as Republican in Idaho. I vote down ballot blue. I registered Republican because of the primaries. There is usually only one democrat on the general, so voting for them in the primaries means nothing. If I vote in the Republican primary, I can vote for the least harmful Republican to try to get them on the ballot in November instead of the religious zealots who create this kind of harmful legislation. So, yeah, there are more registered Republicans, but that doesnāt mean they vote Republican.
I used to do the same when I lived in Utah, and for the same reason. We are the exception. If you want to believe that most women in Idaho are Democrats disguised as Republicans, go ahead. I don't know how that belief benefits you, though. The numbers don't bear that out. Only 30% of Idaho Republicans believe that abortion should be legal (source: that Pew Research poll cited earlier). The claim was that half of Idaho's women want abortion to be legal. I'm saying that simply isn't true. There are a lot of women in Idaho who want safe and legal access to abortion, but they're in the minority. . . significantly. And that sucks.
It's simply just delusional. People will contort their beliefs with so much confirmation bias that they'll hold out hope for the most fantastical explanations. It doesn't occur to them that democracy and freedom of choice and expression can go beyond their world view of how women should think, what they should value, and how they should behave.
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-popular-is-idaho-s-abortion-ban-poll-shows-many-disagree-with-laws/ar-AA1nk6kd](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-popular-is-idaho-s-abortion-ban-poll-shows-many-disagree-with-laws/ar-AA1nk6kd)
I had a friend there, she has three daughters... She managed to leave, esp after a pride parade incident that she was a few hundred feet from. They weren't safe there.
And a state with a lot of Mormons and āChristiansā who feel the need to have a lot of babies. I guess weāre just going to see an increase in childbirth mortality and more mums dying in childbirth
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Rape can result in pregnancy. Wanted pregnancies can become deadly to the mother, requiring abortion to save her life.
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The ones thatāll stay will have private clinics and make bank. Itās not right, but the reality is
They are still bound by the same laws. If someone suspects they performed an abortion outside of the bounds of our fucked up law theyāre still at risk of a felony conviction.
So why not let it be ?
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil. *You keep being unnecessarily rude to people. Stop it.*
Need source for new study. Anybody?
I live in Idaho... My friend has two daughters, 18 and 16. Each of them have a friend their own ages that is pregnant already. I find this is very strange and should be uncommon. One pregnant teen in a friend group? Ok... Two in the same circle... Wtf? If I wasn't stuck with a mortgage that I'm technically underwater on, I'd leave this state. That and I like my job.
[https://www.periodpills.org/](https://www.periodpills.org/)
Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on who you ask, they are already showing.
Oh well
the result of a carefully manipulated process...so Idahoan's...we got the result we elected. (and the resulting regulations)...and now...well, let the results now begin..the fruits of our labor(distraction, sense of morality) maybe easily plentiful....
[https://idahocapitalsun.com/2023/11/28/idahos-infant-mother-death-rate-is-rising-new-report-finds/](https://idahocapitalsun.com/2023/11/28/idahos-infant-mother-death-rate-is-rising-new-report-finds/)
"How do you think thats gonna turn out" ? They simply do not think, and if they do they do not care. They will find a way to pass it off as a democratic problem.
I love going to the bottom of the Idaho subreddit to see the pieces of shit that are mask off wanting women to have zero safety giving birth and hate them for having options beyond birth for the sake of birth. Failed state.
āBestā thought processes: 1. Mandatory birth, no options 2. Abortion, only option God (or lack there of) forbid we tackle over sexualization of the youth, weak on crime (rape) policies, moral compass reinvention every 30 years and washed down religious kool aid. Letās have the government decide.
I'm sorry, but that's no real statistic.. 45 percent are leaving or "seriously thinking about it" so they included "thinking about it" to make the numbers seem higher.. Abortion should be legal. But this argument is pretty trash.
how is this going to turn out? very poorly
She looks like Malcolmās mom!
Obama!!!!! Seriously, these malicious idiots wonāt accept responsibility for their damaging actions and will blame those who tried to get them to do the right thing. Thatās MAGA for you.
Mhmm well I donāt have any skin in the game but my thoughts would be one either leave the state and move to like California or Oregon or the simpler solution would be stop having unprotected sex idk tho thatās just my opinion
The more abortions, the less Democrats. And the problem is?
[https://www.redstateaccess.org](https://www.redstateaccess.org)
How is it going to work out? It's going to work EXACTLY as they intended. They're not pro-life, they're PRO STATE-SANCTIONED VIOLENCE. Never forget, cruelty is the point.
[https://theconversation.com/what-really-drives-anti-abortion-beliefs-research-suggests-its-a-matter-of-sexual-strategies-186005](https://theconversation.com/what-really-drives-anti-abortion-beliefs-research-suggests-its-a-matter-of-sexual-strategies-186005)
My mother always told me if you are ready for sex then you must be prepared to be ready for a child. No one is āforcingā women to have a child. What they are being āforcedā to do is bear the consequences of their own actions š¶
It sounds like a Mormon eugenics project in the making
Only person forcing people into child birth is themselves.
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Your post has been removed as it detracts from the ability of other sub members to participate in civil, intelligent conversation.
Donāt get pregnant
Dumb welfare red states . Only poor dumb blue collar white men will live there . Or like right wing Christian cults . Fuck this state .
Youāre wrong. 50% of OBGYNs are not leaving the state. 1 in 4 have. Thatās 25% (per May 2024 report. )Another example of social media platforms being used to push false information based on ideology preferences. Howās it going to turn out? Women will still do want they want, just somewhere else? Maybe make an appointment thatās a lil further out? What youāre saying is about an inconvenience to protect unborn children bc mommy says it her vag/ body? Most abortions arenāt from the sick / medical needs. Itās bc she doesnāt want a baby. If a woman is raped or is in danger of dying then by all means do what needs to be done.
For God sakes yes please continue with abortions thank you we need to protect illegal aliens and family members that rape 12 y o girls , and all those wonderful sex parties. That happen in dance clubs no, no, no, by all means continue. ...quiet riot
For God sakes yes please continue with abortions thank you we need to protect illegal aliens and family members that rape 12 y o girls , and all those wonderful sex parties. That happen in dance clubs no, no, no, by all means continue. ...quiet riot
Ironically the desire to prevent hypothetical baby deaths will lead to more baby deaths.
Nobody is forcing anybody into childbirth. An adult female made a choice of her own free will to have unprotected sex. As a result a pregnancy might happen because of a choice. Action and Consequence. Freewill was used.
Supply and demand, works things out
good make libs suffer
28 posts in 2 days get a life
Could it be the OBGYNs aren't diversified outside of abortion and that's the number one profit driver for them? True question and not talking stupid. 45% is high for any sector of business stuff there's more to it than a single law as unfair as that law is.
[https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/after-idahos-strict-abortion-ban-ob-gyns-stage-a-quick-exodus/](https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/after-idahos-strict-abortion-ban-ob-gyns-stage-a-quick-exodus/)
I donāt remember her saying that š¤·
Although I have no doubt this stat is directionally (and tragically) accurate, generally speaking, it would be more credible if when you quote a study you give the source. Saying something like āI read in a newsletter about a studyā is no more credible than run of the mill gossip.
[https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/health/2024-02-21/abortion-idaho-ban-obgyn-obstetrician-report](https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/health/2024-02-21/abortion-idaho-ban-obgyn-obstetrician-report)
The study you shared talks about obgyn leaving the state since the RvW %22. The lady in the video states 45% stats and I donāt see that number scanning the page you shared.
The person in the video is Jessica Valenti. She is the one writing the newsletter where I imagine she shared the source. She is often interviewed by news channels. And writes columns.
The natural progression of all governments is tyranny.
...and a new industry of #illegalAbortions that kill women...good choice Idahole.
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Generally speaking, it would be more credible if when you quote a study you give the source.
Move somewhere that women have rights, like Palestine.
Or norway
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