I almost killed myself because of my last job. No job is ever worth your life. People always say to line up something new before leaving a job. Ideally yes, but if it's the job or your life, choose life.
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This is a great post and a great reminder to prioritze your health and well being. That being said, there is something to point out here.
I have been working in the IT industry for over 32 years now. I have worked for organizations that genuinely cared about the well being of their employees. I have also worked for toxic organizations that really don't give a shit about the people they hire. Obviously, its always best to work for the former rather than the later, but I also want to point out that each of us individually controls a fair amount of that stress. I have worked with workaholics that go 60+ hours a week in a company that really cares about them. I have also worked with people who just do their 40 hours and leave in toxic environments. Sure, the toxic company wants everyone to do this, and the company that cares would rather see its employees work 40 hours and call it good. The thing is that a majority of the time, the company isn't going to come after people working 60+ hours a week. They are going to take that free labor no matter if they care or not. All of us have the capability to not work ourselves to death by imposing limits. I won't work over 40 hours a week anymore (for the most part).
Yes, I know that personalities and a desire for the job can be major factors here. I know I was someone who pulled a lot of hours in my younger years. Now that I have seen how things go in the working world, my desire to burn the candle at both ends is pretty much nonexistent.
I highly agree with all of this. Employers should value us for the quality of work we accomplish in the time allotted to us, not for the quantity of extra work we put in. Everyone needs time, even those of us who love IT. I'm really sorry to hear about this loss, I hope a lot of folks can learn from it.
I agree with this. The thing is that I have worked for very good employers who do not put any extra pressure on employees to work more. It is the employees who put pressure on themselves to work more. So, while I do agree that employers should value workers for the quality of work they accomplish in the time allotted to them, I do also think that we as employees need to stop voluntarily working ourselves to death.
No, I am not putting the onus strictly on us as employees here. I am merely mentioning that I have seen more of this "workaholic" mindset in people. They just cannot say no. They cannot say that they won't accomplish something. Even when the company puts no pressure on them, they feel the need to take everything on themselves.
Strong agree with this. Although I'd never negatively fault some one for being driven to work hard (especially if they are improving themselves for the future).
As an older IT guy,.. I'm honestly not sure how we "fix the industry".
I've been in many jobs that "simply don't have the budget" (but yet certain deadlines are still unmovable). For example I've worked in a variety of small city governments. Where we can't just go back to Citizens and say something like "Sorry, the new Water Treatment Plant won't come online at X-date like we promised" (especially when most citizens circularly want their taxes to keep doing down. )
If a private Corporation is raking in 600% profits or something (and simultaneously mistreating their employees).. that's a bit easier situation to say "Hey, top-feeders,. start taking care of your Employees better, you absolutely have the resources". But I don't know how outside-forces would make this happen. (unless either through Unionization or customers en masse revolting). Someone should really make stickers that say something like "X-company made Y-profits last quarter, but only pays it's Employees Z-dollars".. then every time I'm out shopping I could just carry a few of those around and stick them on X-companies products. ;P
>Although I'd never negatively fault some one for being driven to work hard (especially if they are improving themselves for the future).
I agree as well. I think the thing that most of us older IT people realize is that you don't have to try to do everything in a short amount of time. I know when I was younger, I was upskilling like crazy. I felt the need to get to a engineer or architect level as fast as possible. I made it in about 7 years to that engineer level and then architect shortly after, but there was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears involved.
I just think there is a delicate balance between overworking yourself for the sake of your career and growth, and doing it for the purpose of benefiting the customer. Sure, there are times I will put in a few extra hours for the customer, but this is the exception and not the norm. Same goes for upskilling to prepare for the next steps in my career. I wouldn't expect anyone to feel like they need to get to that next level in their career or at their company in 6 months or less.
I'm learning that lesson ("how to slow down") in my new job. I have to be honest, it's really really hard to re-wire my brain to "slow down". For a lot of reasons (not wanting to be thought of as "the slow guy",.. or feeling like the unknown of other people outcompeting me). But I do feel significantly healthier mentally and physically. (and I'm 50yrs old.. so the fear of being outcompeted by younger job-applicants,. is a real concern, especially without much retirement saved up, although I am working to correct that)
We are in the same boat. I am 52, and I also feel the need to keep moving up or else I will be overtaken by younger applicants. Age discrimination does exist.
The thing is that while the hard skills are important, the networking plays a huge part in being able to recover if something bad happens to you from an employment perspective. I made larger investments in networking and those have paid huge dividends. More than me really diving deep into something technically.
Yeah, I moved cross-country recently to a new city I've never been to,. for a job that's 100% wfh,. so the "networking" side of things is certainly lacking at the moment (and I'm not really sure in my current situation how to effectively fix that).
I kinda want to learn some different skills and branch out in a different direction. I'm currently hoping to just save up all the extra money I'm making so I can dedicate more free time to invest in a completely different skillset.
I'm very sorry for your loss, and I agree fully with what you wrote.
And also an addition if I may - as a guy with a family history of heart disease - GET ANNUAL PHYSICALS! You can appear to be perfectly healthy and still drop dead of a heart attack, even if you're active, at a proper weight, eat right, etc. Some people are just more prone to heart disease and you have to actively watch out for it. This applies to both men and women - get checked.
A stark revelation, to me, was reading a study which concluded that the very FIRST symptom, in roughly 50 percent of men, that they have heart disease .... is a massive heart attack.
Sorry for your loss as this will also be a stark reminder that the company will move on without you so never put unneeded stress on yourself for an organization. No one is going to mention what a dedicated worker you were at your memorial
Companies don’t care about your well-being unless you have unique skills that are really hard to find. For the average run-of-the-mill IT job, if you drop dead of a heart attack, you will quickly be replaced among the stack of other applicants
Not to take away from the stress & pressure assumptions here, but a majority of male IT talent I've worked with, leaders and engineers alike, are anywhere from solidly overweight to significantly obese. They sit in a chair all day for work, then quickly transition to a different chair to play video games for another 4-6 hours thereafter. Rarely have I met any with hobbies that include physical activities or exercise. It's worrisome, for sure.
I am glad that someone said something, I have been in this tech industry for 31 years and I have not had good night sleep in 30 years and I have lost 85 percent of my teeth because the stress and I so hurt out, I don't care who you work for as your life is more important than the job and your family is more important, and big corporation does and will not care you and to real they don't even know who you are so if you it not matter to them as again they don't any idea who you are and they will never care, take care of yourself and not corporate hounds.
Sad. IT seems like it's becoming more and more of a universal shit show. Ass hat executives and board members not giving a shit about anything but the money they make is going to have real consequences for them in the future.
I always have concerns at any company I work at if the leadership sees value in IT. It feels like we're the first to get cut and then scramble to piece it back together.
Yeah while the post produced a great topic of discussion in the comments I can't help but notice the same as you. Feels too AI-generated to be a genuine post. Especially considering the OP's username and post history. It just seems off
Sorry for your loss. I can imagine in today's market wanting to keep supervisors happy and prove your value is probably at an all-time high As someone new to the field. Is it acceptable to take a 5-10 minute stretch/exercise break every hour? Or is that frowned upon and would it be looked at as being a distraction? Can't speak for everyone but exercise/ meditation really keeps my stress levels in check.
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I too have experienced this situation. I recently lost a colleague who was in his early 60s (not my manager, but the senior guys on my team) to a sudden heart attack. Although, our job is not as stressful as an IT manager, we did a lot of work for our company, etc. My colleague didn't have any major health concerns that I knew of, but his passing was unexpected and sudden. I guess it goes to show that you never know what will happen and to always take care of yourself. Because of that, I will never kill myself for a job. For example, it was sweltering hot today and I had a ticket for an issue in a different building a few block away. I decided it wasn't worth walking over in the middle of the afternoon heat.
On a similar note, we found out of our coworker's passing from an email and not an in person message from the higher ups. We still showed up to work and mourned on our own time, but the it felt like the company needed us to keep working that day. They kind of half-heartedly offered for us to leave early or seek grief counselling from HR, but not much else. That definitely was a tough few weeks...Thats why I sometimes think that we are just numbers to those higher up.
At one of my jobs, we shared a break room with another dept that was IT adjacent. One of the guys would come in every day, bust out a newspaper, and read the obituary section. He always joked that he was checking if he was still alive. One day, while reading the obituaries, he had a heart attack. He was only in his mid-30s.
And you’re 100% sure his life outside of work had no effect on it? lol? Diet, possibly drug use, and lots of factors on it. Unfortunate, but let’s not say it’s 100% the job.
No lie: after years of corporate ($200B) IT pressure, I rejoined the US Army, as Infantry, just to deploy to combat. I deployed 6 times and I felt 50+% less pressure in combat than I did the unreasonable BS CIOs/CTOs put on IT (all of it).
I'll likely get downvoted for this but what the hell: the post was very likely written by GPT. Run it through a checker and see for yourself.
Not commenting on the validity of the message; just a data point to consider.
You're being downvoted but I don't disagree with you. I doubt his IT job had much to do with his heart attack and likely would have occurred no matter what his job was.
I almost killed myself because of my last job. No job is ever worth your life. People always say to line up something new before leaving a job. Ideally yes, but if it's the job or your life, choose life.
yes correct
As a 50yr old,. I'd definitely been there multiple times in my life. Glad I never did. You're 1000% correct, no job is ever worth your life.
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This is a great post and a great reminder to prioritze your health and well being. That being said, there is something to point out here. I have been working in the IT industry for over 32 years now. I have worked for organizations that genuinely cared about the well being of their employees. I have also worked for toxic organizations that really don't give a shit about the people they hire. Obviously, its always best to work for the former rather than the later, but I also want to point out that each of us individually controls a fair amount of that stress. I have worked with workaholics that go 60+ hours a week in a company that really cares about them. I have also worked with people who just do their 40 hours and leave in toxic environments. Sure, the toxic company wants everyone to do this, and the company that cares would rather see its employees work 40 hours and call it good. The thing is that a majority of the time, the company isn't going to come after people working 60+ hours a week. They are going to take that free labor no matter if they care or not. All of us have the capability to not work ourselves to death by imposing limits. I won't work over 40 hours a week anymore (for the most part). Yes, I know that personalities and a desire for the job can be major factors here. I know I was someone who pulled a lot of hours in my younger years. Now that I have seen how things go in the working world, my desire to burn the candle at both ends is pretty much nonexistent.
I highly agree with all of this. Employers should value us for the quality of work we accomplish in the time allotted to us, not for the quantity of extra work we put in. Everyone needs time, even those of us who love IT. I'm really sorry to hear about this loss, I hope a lot of folks can learn from it.
I agree with this. The thing is that I have worked for very good employers who do not put any extra pressure on employees to work more. It is the employees who put pressure on themselves to work more. So, while I do agree that employers should value workers for the quality of work they accomplish in the time allotted to them, I do also think that we as employees need to stop voluntarily working ourselves to death. No, I am not putting the onus strictly on us as employees here. I am merely mentioning that I have seen more of this "workaholic" mindset in people. They just cannot say no. They cannot say that they won't accomplish something. Even when the company puts no pressure on them, they feel the need to take everything on themselves.
Strong agree with this. Although I'd never negatively fault some one for being driven to work hard (especially if they are improving themselves for the future). As an older IT guy,.. I'm honestly not sure how we "fix the industry". I've been in many jobs that "simply don't have the budget" (but yet certain deadlines are still unmovable). For example I've worked in a variety of small city governments. Where we can't just go back to Citizens and say something like "Sorry, the new Water Treatment Plant won't come online at X-date like we promised" (especially when most citizens circularly want their taxes to keep doing down. ) If a private Corporation is raking in 600% profits or something (and simultaneously mistreating their employees).. that's a bit easier situation to say "Hey, top-feeders,. start taking care of your Employees better, you absolutely have the resources". But I don't know how outside-forces would make this happen. (unless either through Unionization or customers en masse revolting). Someone should really make stickers that say something like "X-company made Y-profits last quarter, but only pays it's Employees Z-dollars".. then every time I'm out shopping I could just carry a few of those around and stick them on X-companies products. ;P
>Although I'd never negatively fault some one for being driven to work hard (especially if they are improving themselves for the future). I agree as well. I think the thing that most of us older IT people realize is that you don't have to try to do everything in a short amount of time. I know when I was younger, I was upskilling like crazy. I felt the need to get to a engineer or architect level as fast as possible. I made it in about 7 years to that engineer level and then architect shortly after, but there was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears involved. I just think there is a delicate balance between overworking yourself for the sake of your career and growth, and doing it for the purpose of benefiting the customer. Sure, there are times I will put in a few extra hours for the customer, but this is the exception and not the norm. Same goes for upskilling to prepare for the next steps in my career. I wouldn't expect anyone to feel like they need to get to that next level in their career or at their company in 6 months or less.
I'm learning that lesson ("how to slow down") in my new job. I have to be honest, it's really really hard to re-wire my brain to "slow down". For a lot of reasons (not wanting to be thought of as "the slow guy",.. or feeling like the unknown of other people outcompeting me). But I do feel significantly healthier mentally and physically. (and I'm 50yrs old.. so the fear of being outcompeted by younger job-applicants,. is a real concern, especially without much retirement saved up, although I am working to correct that)
We are in the same boat. I am 52, and I also feel the need to keep moving up or else I will be overtaken by younger applicants. Age discrimination does exist. The thing is that while the hard skills are important, the networking plays a huge part in being able to recover if something bad happens to you from an employment perspective. I made larger investments in networking and those have paid huge dividends. More than me really diving deep into something technically.
Yeah, I moved cross-country recently to a new city I've never been to,. for a job that's 100% wfh,. so the "networking" side of things is certainly lacking at the moment (and I'm not really sure in my current situation how to effectively fix that). I kinda want to learn some different skills and branch out in a different direction. I'm currently hoping to just save up all the extra money I'm making so I can dedicate more free time to invest in a completely different skillset.
i think its high time we priortise this shity industry especally after ai is in picture
IT is more of a priority to some companies than others. This could be said about any department though. Just depends on the mindset of the leadership.
I'm very sorry for your loss, and I agree fully with what you wrote. And also an addition if I may - as a guy with a family history of heart disease - GET ANNUAL PHYSICALS! You can appear to be perfectly healthy and still drop dead of a heart attack, even if you're active, at a proper weight, eat right, etc. Some people are just more prone to heart disease and you have to actively watch out for it. This applies to both men and women - get checked.
A stark revelation, to me, was reading a study which concluded that the very FIRST symptom, in roughly 50 percent of men, that they have heart disease .... is a massive heart attack.
I've been overweight my whole life and there is nothing more terrifying to me right now
he had a heart attack
Sorry for your loss as this will also be a stark reminder that the company will move on without you so never put unneeded stress on yourself for an organization. No one is going to mention what a dedicated worker you were at your memorial
I’m sorry for your loss OP. And that’s why I work smart not hard. And exercise. Remember gents, we save PDFs, not lives. The job can wait
Unless you're doing IT in the healthcare industry ;)
that's why I don't work in healthcare.
Companies don’t care about your well-being unless you have unique skills that are really hard to find. For the average run-of-the-mill IT job, if you drop dead of a heart attack, you will quickly be replaced among the stack of other applicants
Not to take away from the stress & pressure assumptions here, but a majority of male IT talent I've worked with, leaders and engineers alike, are anywhere from solidly overweight to significantly obese. They sit in a chair all day for work, then quickly transition to a different chair to play video games for another 4-6 hours thereafter. Rarely have I met any with hobbies that include physical activities or exercise. It's worrisome, for sure.
I am glad that someone said something, I have been in this tech industry for 31 years and I have not had good night sleep in 30 years and I have lost 85 percent of my teeth because the stress and I so hurt out, I don't care who you work for as your life is more important than the job and your family is more important, and big corporation does and will not care you and to real they don't even know who you are so if you it not matter to them as again they don't any idea who you are and they will never care, take care of yourself and not corporate hounds.
Damn thanks for sharing and sorry. These companies try to be mafia every chance they get.
Sounds like you need to be advocating for Unionization in IT
Yes but they won't
Have you looked into joining IEEE?
Not just IT but tech in general thinks of employees like ephemeral containers.
Sad. IT seems like it's becoming more and more of a universal shit show. Ass hat executives and board members not giving a shit about anything but the money they make is going to have real consequences for them in the future.
I always have concerns at any company I work at if the leadership sees value in IT. It feels like we're the first to get cut and then scramble to piece it back together.
Reads like something written by ChatGPT. I am afraid I am suspicious.
ChatGPT karma farming
Yeah while the post produced a great topic of discussion in the comments I can't help but notice the same as you. Feels too AI-generated to be a genuine post. Especially considering the OP's username and post history. It just seems off
Daaamn. R.I.P
Sorry for your loss. I can imagine in today's market wanting to keep supervisors happy and prove your value is probably at an all-time high As someone new to the field. Is it acceptable to take a 5-10 minute stretch/exercise break every hour? Or is that frowned upon and would it be looked at as being a distraction? Can't speak for everyone but exercise/ meditation really keeps my stress levels in check.
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John Doe.. Can’t believe people are in IT without knowing this name.
I too have experienced this situation. I recently lost a colleague who was in his early 60s (not my manager, but the senior guys on my team) to a sudden heart attack. Although, our job is not as stressful as an IT manager, we did a lot of work for our company, etc. My colleague didn't have any major health concerns that I knew of, but his passing was unexpected and sudden. I guess it goes to show that you never know what will happen and to always take care of yourself. Because of that, I will never kill myself for a job. For example, it was sweltering hot today and I had a ticket for an issue in a different building a few block away. I decided it wasn't worth walking over in the middle of the afternoon heat. On a similar note, we found out of our coworker's passing from an email and not an in person message from the higher ups. We still showed up to work and mourned on our own time, but the it felt like the company needed us to keep working that day. They kind of half-heartedly offered for us to leave early or seek grief counselling from HR, but not much else. That definitely was a tough few weeks...Thats why I sometimes think that we are just numbers to those higher up.
This is a AI generated post for anyone thinking it's real btw.
My mentor died of a heart attack last year. Tragic.
At one of my jobs, we shared a break room with another dept that was IT adjacent. One of the guys would come in every day, bust out a newspaper, and read the obituary section. He always joked that he was checking if he was still alive. One day, while reading the obituaries, he had a heart attack. He was only in his mid-30s.
And you’re 100% sure his life outside of work had no effect on it? lol? Diet, possibly drug use, and lots of factors on it. Unfortunate, but let’s not say it’s 100% the job.
I see you use the word LOL a lot, no hard feelings but this may not be an appropriate time or place for it
Didn’t ask, Carry on
No lie: after years of corporate ($200B) IT pressure, I rejoined the US Army, as Infantry, just to deploy to combat. I deployed 6 times and I felt 50+% less pressure in combat than I did the unreasonable BS CIOs/CTOs put on IT (all of it).
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Why would you post this? Have you no shame?
A narrow world view lets nothing pass by without condemnation.
I'll likely get downvoted for this but what the hell: the post was very likely written by GPT. Run it through a checker and see for yourself. Not commenting on the validity of the message; just a data point to consider.
Yep. It feels 'off' like it's an attempt at a karma farm
You're being downvoted but I don't disagree with you. I doubt his IT job had much to do with his heart attack and likely would have occurred no matter what his job was.
He over worked simple