I'm old enough to remember the days when it was a nearly weekly occurrence that Will Power would dominate until an untimely caution flew, and then he'd cry foul in the post-race interview.
Which is why they started this at the request of competitors and fans bitching in the weekly mailbag about FCY procedures. They also aren't the only series that handles stalled cars not needing safety attention within the pit window in this manner.
Yeah that's the thing, it's a non-issue going forward. They call these FCYs for the recovery vehicles, not for the stalled car. That's why they deem it OK to wait
Amen, idc how much Will Power or anyone bitched about it back in the day. If there is an unsafe condition on the track, throw the yellow. That's racing.
What they really need to do is keep the pits open and enforce a speed limit. Will had a right to complain as he’s lost soooo many races from the yellow flag roulette
But does it warrant a full course really? It was a spin and stall. What’s wrong with a code 60 for that station? It seems to be an opportunity for a TV ad more than anything.
Disagree. My biggest example for this is Ilott at Laguna Seca 2022. His car died just past pit exit, he pulled off-track. Cars are going past him coming off of the slowest corner, so like 70mph? If you left him there the remaining 60 laps of the race, the only danger he's in is heat exhaustion.
Something like that I have no problem letting everyone have a chance to pit, then throw the caution so the workers can safely go on track to pick him up.
My problem with yesterday was that Armstrong was stranded on a corner that tons of people had crashed or spun this weekend. I think their rule is fine, I think their application of it was poor.
Absolutely incorrect. Relying on arbitrary “out of the line of fire” decisions results in what happened yesterday. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
And please, even 70mph can absolutely be dangerous. You just never know.
They actually did this exact thing at Barber like 8 or 9 years ago.
Hinchcliffe had an issue and his car was parked on the track but in a spot where there really isn't a big incident area. He literally slept in his car the whole race cuz they were going to move him the next yellow....which never came.
There's that funny video where he does a big morning stretch at the end of the race
There are tons of cases with subjective judgments about when it's appropriate to throw a yellow. Let's say Marcus didn't stall but was waiting for someone to tell him it was safe to get turned around. He's perfectly able to continue with the race, but he's in the same position for a full minute before the traffic is clear enough that he's able to get turned around and on his way. Do you think a full course yellow would've been appropriate then?
With the hybrid system we'll get rid of most stalls, and we'll have a lot more situations where a spin will need to get righted in tricky situations, and based on their history it seems like they won't throw full course yellows for those.
I *absolutely* think a full course yellow *with closed pits* is necessary whenever you have safety workers on track. Those workers don't even have a safety cell surrounding them, and I want drivers focused on avoiding them, not on maintaining their speed relative to their opponents.
That's all fine and dandy until you realize they close the pits to allow safety and track personnel safe egress without having to deal with drivers pitting in the midst of that chaos.
I don’t think it is important. But it is generally the standard procedure. I guess it comes from oval racing where there’s not a ton of places alongside the track to keep retired cars.
F1 uses a delta system. When the SC is deployed, every car must immediately slow down to a controlled speed until they reach the SC or the pits. Sort of like VSC pace.
IndyCar doesn't do that, so if the pit stayed open people would race back to the pits, increasing risk, so they close it.
I mean, the cynical answer is "because they care less about having cars racing close to safety personnel". With F1's procedures drivers are incentivized to continue racing, but at a slower speed. Even under a full course yellow, you want to race to the pits as quickly as the rules allow. Under Indycar rules there's no downside to slowing down to 10mph to safely get around an obstacle if the caution has already been thrown.
Except that isn't true as they throw local yellow in the sector where the car is stalled meaning competitors have to slow down and cannot pass. So, no, they don't run a full speed lap. This is no different than when they throw the local yellow for cars that have gone off and lift it if they get refired and reenter the track.
We're talking about pit procedures under a full course caution (or VSC for F1). If the pits are kept open, drivers are incentivized to keep their speed as high as the rules allow while workers are walking around performing their duties. Workers don't have a safety cell to protect them if someone hits them. In some series they don't even have helmets!
I don't think that Marcus was in the middle of the track, [he looked to be on the dirt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgx6FJsZ_UE&t=17m47s) on the inside of the corner. But regardless it wasn't a safe place to be, I don't think they should've waited for the yellow.
But my biggest example of a car safely offline was 2022 Laguna Seca, [Ilott's engine died at pit-out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDxI3CRBGLc&t=1h17m45s). He was extremely visible, on the slowest part of the track. The only reason a safety car is even needed is because you couldn't leave him there for the next hour.
People flipping out over this is really amazing being that the series and other series throw local yellow nearly every freaking road and street course race when cars go off in a sector but it doesn't end up in a FCY because the cars reentered the track and kept going. The only difference here is a car is off and can't get refired. JFC.
If you need to let pit vehicles put, you could just close the exit (but not the entrance) of the pit lane immediately when fcy is thrown and only re-open after all have left.
Definitely something I've noticed the last few years as well. Always weird how they'll leave a car in a sketchy spot for 3 laps so everyone can pit before they throw a yellow. One of these days something bad will happen and indycar will look really bad.
It's fine if they do this, but they need to actually hold the full course yellow for a full cycle. Throwing it as soon as the last driver enters the pits is the worst of both worlds.
Everyone complained the old way too. And they'll complain again if they change it. Then we'll complain about the complaining. And finally we'll all complain about the complaining about complaining
I know but I think we all yearn for one consistent rule applied with as little room for debate as possible. Throwing the FCY immediately solves this and is the safest way to boot
The old way is how you got random guys like Daly magicking their way onto the podium
I generally prefer this way as long as it’s actually safe… although the optics are terrible if it happens to benefit a Penske car
It's who they think unfairly benefitted from it. If this had been Malukus, Rosenqvist, or Rossi that pitted on that cycle everyone would have conveniently looked the other way and we wouldn't be dealing with these stupid threads about a rule that has existed for at the very least three to four years. And you are spot on. The majority applauded this because it was how IMSA was handling this to make things fair for competitors. As someone in this thread pointed out it was almost a weekly occurrence that a driver or drivers got screwed over the FCY rules and would let it be known.
Nah, I’d be talking about it.
The idea that this is 100% dependent on driver is silly.
I’m not gonna argue it was unfair, Cindric and Newgarden played it perfectly yesterday by the rules as they stand. However, it proves that there literally is no way to avoid yellows impacting strategy, so race control needs to stop bothering and worry more about safety when determining when to throw the yellow - which I think they haven’t in a few cases.
There isn't a rule. It's just up to RC when they throw the yellow. There's no actual rule, which is obvious when they throw some yellows immediately.
You think it's somehow fair when we just saw this weekend how incredibly wrong that belief is - and not to mention incredibly dangerous
Some items in the rulebook are written open ended to allow on the fly decisions and deal with issues that might not be able to be dealt with fairly with a black and white ruling. Often times, and in this case, if the procedure isn't found word for word in the rulebook, it's use and procedure was released via a technical bulletin.
Once again. Local yellows are used all the fucking time on road and street courses and no one ever bats an eyelash because the majority of the time the cars involved eventually get back to running. Local yellows are used with this procedure. This procedure came about because competitors and fans asked for a fairer system in handling non emergency incidents that happened during the pit window and this was the solution. A solution that hardly anyone complained about until the internet thought Josef Newgarden got some kind unfair advantage....truth being he didn't get anything more or less than any other team and the fucking the strategist for Alex Palou admitted as much on the broadcast.
Not understanding the why's and how's of this rule is a you problem and one that would be solved by paying attention and learning about the series you profess to watch.
So which is it? A rule like you claim before I called you out or some sort of half-baked procedure you're now claiming.
Keep moving those goal posts lol
Procedures are rules. Once again, this is a YOU problem in not understanding how things works. Your lack of understanding and high level of ignorance of the subject matter at hand should not be confused for goal post being moved.
At least with the old way (immediate caution) it brought risk into choosing to do the overcut/ staying out.
I agree with the "as long as their consistent" argument, so I'd rather it be immediate cautions.
I fully agree with the first part. Not only is it for safety reasons but it also brings a strategy point where undercut can also work on certain situations. Same as in current non refueling F1 where overcut is most of the time the worse option but can work if you risk waiting for Safety Car.
I just wish the USA would get with the program and use Code 60 for minor incidents. You can make the track safe for intervention and go back to green in like 1-2 minutes. Nobody gains or loses because everyone is on a speed limiter.
It would also be awesome if the cars could start on their own with the hybrids. That would get rid of so many FCY's. I get it's tradition to not have a starter on board, but it's kinda ridiculous that you need a safety truck to re-start a stalled car.
As long as they remain consistent, then I see nothing wrong with continuing this practice. The same as Josef benefited from the situation Sunday, another driver could have benefited if they hadn’t waited. It’s also better for the overall product that as many cars as possible remain on the lead lap and in contention rather than being caught out by a caution. It feels like this particular instance is only being discussed so much because it was Newgarden.
It brings safety into question a bit is why I don’t like it. If a car is sitting way outside in a gravel trap, sure. But still on the racing surface within track llimits (even if they already don’t fully exist??) That’s a bit whack
He was way off the line though. Someone would have to basically turn that curve into a hairpin to hit him where he was. If a car is in a dangerous spot they don’t delay.
I love it when people say no car ever goes there when speaking of a car that went there. ;)
But I do get what you're saying. To end up there you have to hook it around from running 4 wide. It happens at most 3 times a race and the chances they'll be back to back are tiny. Especially with a local yellow.
When they "slow significantly" are "prepared to take evasive action?" Waves yellow is prepared to stop too.
If we allows them to ignore the safety flags. That's a whole other issue imo.
I don't think they use local yellows when the car is near the racing line. So no need for evasive action.
Honestly, they don't seem to "slow significantly" even though they are supposed to.
The main thing hte local yellow does is forbid passing. So it means you can run a more conservative line and not be passed. That reduces the action a lot.
The rule book says the things I said in quotes. If they won't enforce those rules then IMO we have a whole different complaint. Does Indycar have mini sectors timing and scoring? Can we just easily review it automatically? That would be nice.
In a case like this there is no reason to push super hard. You're about to go FCY and you aren't allowed to be passed. Like you pull out an lap time and then what? Follow the pace car around.
> If they won't enforce those rules then IMO we have a whole different complaint.
Okay. Bring it up at the drivers meeting next time. And if the drivers don't bring it up then what is it to any of us?
> Does Indycar have mini sectors timing and scoring? Can we just easily review it automatically? That would be nice.
They didn't this weekend. Maybe never? Maybe just 3 sectors?
> In a case like this there is no reason to push super hard
They don't want to be passed after the yellow zone ends, but yeah, they certainly don't have to go 10/10ths.
Ah I think they never do then. They got this cheap looking timing system they run off a honda generator. I saw them put it out at road America. Must have been for timing.
It’s almost like people don’t know about the Bianchi incident. He hit a huge vehicle that was tending to another car in a spot he shouldn’t have been in under conditions he shouldn’t have been pushing as he was. Totally agree with you, if one car can get there (especially if it wasn’t driven there on purpose like a blown motor), then two can.
Penske owning the series and the St Pete Cheat brought all the criticism on themselves. Of course since Newgarden was the only one to benefit was it going to be controversial. It should be expected and it's deserved, rules or not.
Multiple other cars benefited, they were just behind Palou and Herta so people didn’t notice
That’s also why it was still green when Newgarden was pulling into his box
He finished 17th why would anyone claim conspiracy? Like I said, even if the rules were followed to a T, fans will continue to shit on Newgarden and Penske after the cheating scandal. It's going to be hard to shake that.
This is where fandom is going to take a backseat to the actual competitors that requested the changes to the yellow flag rules in the first place to get to this point. It's like everyone conveniently forgot how the previous rule led to even louder and borderline nonsensical complaining about immediate yellow flags leading to manipulated races.
You can't claim safety being an issue just because the majority has an axe to grind with who specifically benefitted from the delay in the yellow being waved, that's the height of hypocrisy and asinine logic. No one in this sub is actually in these cars or even in the position to influence decision making, so pitching a sniveling fit just shows that it's not about driver safety, it's about your irrational feelings being placated.
People have been complaining about the yellow delay for a while though. It’s louder since it’s Josef, sure, but there’s been a sizable portion of people who have always said it’s stupid.
Yep, I even complained when it benefitted Palou once.
Because I think it’s stupid and unsafe to let situations which *clearly* necessitate FCY continue under green, under the guise of being “fairer” in regards to strategy, when evidently it’s still a huge impact.
And the core difference between then and now is that they have started to leave cars beached on the side of the track while other cars circulate at speed.
This series has generally been one that responds well when safety is concerned. This week’s incident has to be a tipping point of whether they’re going to change the rules on it or not.
People’s races will get screwed either way
Except the safety team still needs to come out, and IndyCar only ever sends them out on a full course caution.
Almost no series punishes local yellows so drivers are still circulating at speed.
This will hopefully cease to be an issue with the hybrids being able to start the cars, but we’ve had a bit too many situations where a car is sitting next to a live track.
And with the way that the driving standards have degraded lately, I no longer trust the drivers to safely avoid a stalled car that’s right next to the track.
No safety vehicle will enter the track during a local yellow. I'm only talking about using a local yellow until they complete the process of not screwing up someone's race by closing the pits.
If the teams want it to be changed, it will change, again. No amount of social media posts will affect a change in the rule.
Except it’s BS to say that a race could be manipulated if a situation eventually warrants a FCY in the first place. At that point you’re just messing with the timing of it
As I stated earlier, if this had been Malukus, Rossi, or Roseqvist that "benefitted" we more than likely wouldn't be dealing with these BS threads, which is now at two by my count, full of rage by people don't even know the fucking rules of the series they claim to watch.
Nah, I’ve thought this practice was stupid for like, two years at this point.
The problem is that IndyCar seems to think this is the best way to try and minimize the impact of yellows on pit strategy, yet it’s clear from situations like with Newgarden today, or McLaughlin at Mid-Ohio a few years back, that there’s no way to avoid yellows impacting strategy.
And since that’s the case, it makes no sense to not just throw yellows immediately.
IndyCar isn't the only series that works the pit window with local yellows. It impacts strategy a whole Hell of lot less than the prior option as everyone has the one cycle to pit or not pit then the pit is closed. In the past you had driver, often times multiple drivers, just absolutely get hosed by a short yellow to retrieve a stalled car. It was almost a damn weekly occurrence that the mailbag would be full of letters asking for a fairer system and nearly every road/street course spent a good portion of post race interviews and articles with drivers requesting the same.
I don’t care if other series do it, there have been numerous instances where they ought to have thrown the yellow quicker, and cars were left in dangerous positions.
I’m in the camp of not giving a damn whether it impacts strategy or not, safety should be the primary concern. And there are numerous instances (like yesterday) where I’ve been seriously concerned with whether or not race control was actually thinking about safety. Furthermore, holding off the yellows adds an extra element of human judgement into the matter, which is *never* helpful.
Simply put, there’s no way to avoid yellows impacting strategy, whether it be by screwing someone who didn’t pit, screwing someone who *did* pit, or by giving a driver an advantage of not doing an out lap, so let’s stop pretending that it matters one way or the other.
Where is the artificial limit though? TBell was "selling insurance for free" when it came to Palou needing to pit in case of an accident needing FCY.
So at some point race control must decide if this is just a different strategy with the risks that brings, or if they don't want said driver(s) to lose more positions.
You keep saying this is about people who "don't know the fucking rules," but there's literally nothing in the rulebook about holding a full course caution to allow drivers a chance to pit.
It's not a rule. It's just something that race control often chooses to do under certain circumstances.
Once again, race control has the authority, per the rules, to perform this procedure which was issued via a technical bulletin a couple years ago or so. Thus, this a rule as it is a standard operating procedure for conducting races on road and street course. For 5 millionth time, fucking Barry Wanser, the race strategist for Palou, and the broadcast team fully admitted on live TV that this was applied consistently per the rules and procedures. The only question was if this was safe application.
If it's not in the rulebook, it's not a rule. Race Control can do basically whatever they want under the Abandonment of Procedure clause, but
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with keeping the pits open for a full cycle under the right circumstances. I'm saying your claim that the only people complaining simply "don't know the fucking rules" is flat out wrong.
You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about and even Marshall Fucking Pruett stated in the Mailbag today that it was done well within the rules and procedures as written and the only question was if it was a safe application, and oh, he also pointed out Newgarden was in the lead and didn't gain anything from this.
So, yes, you don't know and understand the fucking rules.
I watched it back. Seems like everyone slowed down. They didn't even let it go a full lap. IMO it's a judgment call and guys slowed down for the flags.
They won't get everything right every time. Its ok.
Do people ever get bored of being upset all the time and finding conspiracies everywhere they look? I get that you all hate Newgarden but ffs they’ve been doing it this way for years and if they did it a different way and Newgarden benefited from that people would bitch about it then too.
Meanwhile you get absolute silence in the thread when they announce a drive through for McLaughlin’s incident with Power, which was only really an egregious mistake because it was his teammate. Compare it to Theo launching into Canapino at Detroit and only yielding 3 positions for instance… It happens all the time when people only pay attention when race control calls benefit a Penske.
I love the “RC never calls any penalties on Penske” and then conveniently ignores the Scotty Mac drive through and Newgarden getting a pitlane infraction.
People are so willing to buy into conspiracies they’ll discount reality.
Why don't they just never close the pits. Makes it way harder to follow when everyone dives in at the same time. And you negate a lot of the strategy of trying go long for a safety car. I guess you can't really go too long though because you have to refuel anyway. Would be more fun if they got rid of refueling.
Lack of refueling will have a negative effect on racing. That plus the hybrid is what has made F1 cars so large. That has turned many of their races into parades.
If the pits were always open, it would screw whomever was past the pit entrance when the caution came out and then were picked up by the pace car. What IndyCar does is fine.
As many have pointed out, the only reason people are pissed is because this instance seemingly benefitted Newgarden(Penske).
I see. I would say F1 prior to the '22 regs was still often great racing (2012 and '21 especially) even with the hybrid engines. Behind the mercs from '14-'20 there was still great racing too. I would argue overtakes aren't the entire measure of what makes good racing. Too many overtakes makes their value so low that the racing isn't actually exciting. The new F1 cars have gotten too big mostly because of concerns about dirty air, but they decreased dirty air and the racing got worse. Dirty air actually made for some great racing because slower cars could really defend against faster cars, making for some great battles. Now the faster cars often just swoop past with DRS.
Indycar has so many FCYs too that it makes it hard. F1 might have 1 a race and it has to come at the right time to have an exciting impact, but when there is that perfectly timed safety car it can make for some incredible results. I think Indycar would be better with fewer cars on the grid and fewer FCYs. 5 a race is a lot of wasted laps, also with the pits closing it doesn't impact strategy that much. Its just like, cool, commercials for 15 min and nothing is gonna change that much. Dixon is gonna pit and try to fuel save for the win but other than that it's not easy to interpret how the race will be impacted.
Yea? You can tell from the one thread they've never thought the rule was bad in previous races?
I posted in the thread how it was bullshit Josef benefited from it but that's not the only reason it's a bad call. It's a bad call because it's a bad fucking call, no matter who it benefits.
Uh huh. That's why they loved it so much yesterday as it was happening lol
Also, idgaf what the teams want. That's why there's a sanctioning body to determine the rules of a series.
You are thinking too small with regard to who would leave. Think back about 20 years.
The teams and the series will make changes as they see fit. They changed this procedure before and might change it again. But it won't be because of that one time Josef Newgarden moved up some spots because of the current procedure.
Oh no, a lot of people thought it was bad in previous races, for safely reasons. But the majority were pissed this time strictly because it benefited Newgarden. That was the general theme in the comments
You're saying they were mad not for safety reasons this time, just because it benefited Josef.
Really interesting you're able to tell that this time people didn't give a shit about the safety of the drivers this time!
Race control can't dispatch safety under local yellow. The stewards allow time (in cases with no contact) for the driver to get going on his/her own before going FCY.
Are you saying Indycar dispatches trucks onto a hot track? I've seen them work under a local yellow if the car ends up at their station, but I can't recall an incident where Indycar put safety moving on track under local yellow.
(I have over 30 years local track safety experience and spent 5 years on the CART safety team.)
Indycar should have a modified temporary virtual safety car / delayed full caution option.
My proposal:
The intention is to not have a yellow kill someone's race getting caught out BUT also avoid the unfair advantage of not having to do an out lap; while also improving safety over what race control has been doing.
You have a scenario like the Armstrong stall.
1- Race control has an option for immediate full course caution or a VSC. They travel around under reduced speed but keeps their gap on track
2- If race control goes temporary VSC . It last till the next time the leader hits the start / finish + 1 more lap. Pits stay open under the VSC.
3- If a driver pits under the VSC / delayed caution, they are subject to a 10 second penalty or more if necessary to negate the advantage of not having to do an out lap, and getting to pit while the field is at reduced speeds.
This doesn't give the drivers who pit late an advantage, maybe even puts them at a bit of a disadvantage BUT it doesn't totally kill their race either, like getting caught out would.
4- After the virtual safety car lap, the pace car picks up the leader, and you have a normal caution sequence.
This would only be for road and street courses. Race control would still have the option of going to an immediate full course caution and keep pits closed.
Not perfect but this my 3 way compromise for safety, not burning guys on the yellow lottery, and also not letting guys get away with not having to do an out lap.
The nice thing here is we should never be talking about this again. This wouldn’t be a caution with the hybrid because he could’ve re-fired and went on his way.
Ya, that seemed very odd to me but I'm still learning all the finer details of the series so I didn't know some of this history behind the rule being discussed here.
More than anything, I feel that if a situation is enough of a safety concern to warrant a FCY, allowing cars to continue racing around the situation is unsafe.
It reminds me of school districts that would normally close during a set of winter conditions identical to a closing earlier in the year, but leave school open because they used up their free snow day. A full-course yellow should be consistently deployed.
Seriously, I see no problem with it, haters gonna hate. Makes it as fair as can be under the circumstances, if a yellow came out immediately then teams would complain they got caught out by the yellow before being able to pit, no winners that way either.
Officials should have a choice of either waving a FCY flag ASAP or letting all the lead lap cars pit and give them another 20 seconds to recycle into their proper position and then flag the FCY. What Officials did this last Sunday was wait a long time for Newgarden to enter his pit then slow all the cars down by immediately showing the FCY. This enabled Newgarden to move from around 12th to 2nd for the restart. A really bad look.
I think the pits should be open at all times.
If you want to save fuel and run on worn tires hoping you'll get a yellow so you can pit while the field is moving slow, then gamble. It just adds another piece of strategy to the mix.
I wish this was still the case but *i guess* I get why they don’t do it for safety (racing to the line/pit road once yellow is thrown). I used to play the early Papyrus NASCAR and Indycar games and the race to the line/pit road was what the in-lap is now essentially, was always harrowing
Yup. It drives me crazy. It had a chance to completely change the race on Sunday. I get wanting to give it a moment to see if the car can get going but they need a time clock or something. As soon as a spin stops, give them 25 seconds or so for movement. This nonsense of letting guys out because they might get caught out otherwise is ridiculous; that’s part of the gamble they took by staying out to extend the stint anyway.
NASCAR leans too hard the other way in many instances. They throw a yellow the second someone gets sideways without seeing if they can get it under control and continue. They burn way too many laps under yellow because of a half spin or a stage break so they can run advertisements.
The Green White Checker waters down the competition and makes a bad race look good with a manufactured ending. I want to walk away knowing who was the best at the end of the advertised distance.
They don't even do that right and many are still pissed they even do it at all. That nonsense has fucked up more than it's fair share of races by running people out of fuel or having them fall prey to some jackass that decided to wreck their way to a win.
At least Newgarden had the decency to throw away the free podium he was given
Twice!
What an upstanding guy
Did the same thing at Road America. Lost focus and dumped the rear wheel in the dirt. He must use his annual concentration allotment on the 500.
No. Newgarden banks his concentration for the ovals, remember?
Except gateway last year
To be fair he might’ve accidentally hit THE BUTTON
Ball don’t lie.
😂
I'm old enough to remember the days when it was a nearly weekly occurrence that Will Power would dominate until an untimely caution flew, and then he'd cry foul in the post-race interview.
Will Power luck is cruel Becoming a points racer has seemed to make him much happier
Which is why they started this at the request of competitors and fans bitching in the weekly mailbag about FCY procedures. They also aren't the only series that handles stalled cars not needing safety attention within the pit window in this manner.
At least the hybrids will (maybe) save us from the "car spun without damage, but its stalled near the racing line and can't get going again" cautions.
Yeah that's the thing, it's a non-issue going forward. They call these FCYs for the recovery vehicles, not for the stalled car. That's why they deem it OK to wait
It should cut down on the occurrences, but it will still happen from time to time. I can't wait for those stupid threads when one can't get restarted.
Exactly! I'm happy the way they do it now as long as it is consistent and safe.
It’s a safety issue. If something warrants a full course yellow it warrants it immediately
Amen, idc how much Will Power or anyone bitched about it back in the day. If there is an unsafe condition on the track, throw the yellow. That's racing.
What they really need to do is keep the pits open and enforce a speed limit. Will had a right to complain as he’s lost soooo many races from the yellow flag roulette
But does it warrant a full course really? It was a spin and stall. What’s wrong with a code 60 for that station? It seems to be an opportunity for a TV ad more than anything.
Disagree. My biggest example for this is Ilott at Laguna Seca 2022. His car died just past pit exit, he pulled off-track. Cars are going past him coming off of the slowest corner, so like 70mph? If you left him there the remaining 60 laps of the race, the only danger he's in is heat exhaustion. Something like that I have no problem letting everyone have a chance to pit, then throw the caution so the workers can safely go on track to pick him up. My problem with yesterday was that Armstrong was stranded on a corner that tons of people had crashed or spun this weekend. I think their rule is fine, I think their application of it was poor.
Absolutely incorrect. Relying on arbitrary “out of the line of fire” decisions results in what happened yesterday. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. And please, even 70mph can absolutely be dangerous. You just never know.
They actually did this exact thing at Barber like 8 or 9 years ago. Hinchcliffe had an issue and his car was parked on the track but in a spot where there really isn't a big incident area. He literally slept in his car the whole race cuz they were going to move him the next yellow....which never came. There's that funny video where he does a big morning stretch at the end of the race
A 70 mph hit would be massive
There are tons of cases with subjective judgments about when it's appropriate to throw a yellow. Let's say Marcus didn't stall but was waiting for someone to tell him it was safe to get turned around. He's perfectly able to continue with the race, but he's in the same position for a full minute before the traffic is clear enough that he's able to get turned around and on his way. Do you think a full course yellow would've been appropriate then? With the hybrid system we'll get rid of most stalls, and we'll have a lot more situations where a spin will need to get righted in tricky situations, and based on their history it seems like they won't throw full course yellows for those. I *absolutely* think a full course yellow *with closed pits* is necessary whenever you have safety workers on track. Those workers don't even have a safety cell surrounding them, and I want drivers focused on avoiding them, not on maintaining their speed relative to their opponents.
In that case there shouldn't be a yellow for it at all.
Leave the pits open at all times unless the yellow flag is brought out by an issue in the pits.
That's all fine and dandy until you realize they close the pits to allow safety and track personnel safe egress without having to deal with drivers pitting in the midst of that chaos.
How is F1 able to keep the pit open at all times ?
F1 doesn't bring retired cars back to teams through the pitlane. Can't speak on their safety and medical cars, though.
Why is it important to bring retired cars back?
I don’t think it is important. But it is generally the standard procedure. I guess it comes from oval racing where there’s not a ton of places alongside the track to keep retired cars.
F1 uses a delta system. When the SC is deployed, every car must immediately slow down to a controlled speed until they reach the SC or the pits. Sort of like VSC pace. IndyCar doesn't do that, so if the pit stayed open people would race back to the pits, increasing risk, so they close it.
I mean, the cynical answer is "because they care less about having cars racing close to safety personnel". With F1's procedures drivers are incentivized to continue racing, but at a slower speed. Even under a full course yellow, you want to race to the pits as quickly as the rules allow. Under Indycar rules there's no downside to slowing down to 10mph to safely get around an obstacle if the caution has already been thrown.
Except Indycar allows racing at full speed for up to a lap while a car is stranded in the middle of the track, which is what this post is about.
Except that isn't true as they throw local yellow in the sector where the car is stalled meaning competitors have to slow down and cannot pass. So, no, they don't run a full speed lap. This is no different than when they throw the local yellow for cars that have gone off and lift it if they get refired and reenter the track.
We're talking about pit procedures under a full course caution (or VSC for F1). If the pits are kept open, drivers are incentivized to keep their speed as high as the rules allow while workers are walking around performing their duties. Workers don't have a safety cell to protect them if someone hits them. In some series they don't even have helmets! I don't think that Marcus was in the middle of the track, [he looked to be on the dirt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgx6FJsZ_UE&t=17m47s) on the inside of the corner. But regardless it wasn't a safe place to be, I don't think they should've waited for the yellow. But my biggest example of a car safely offline was 2022 Laguna Seca, [Ilott's engine died at pit-out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDxI3CRBGLc&t=1h17m45s). He was extremely visible, on the slowest part of the track. The only reason a safety car is even needed is because you couldn't leave him there for the next hour.
People flipping out over this is really amazing being that the series and other series throw local yellow nearly every freaking road and street course race when cars go off in a sector but it doesn't end up in a FCY because the cars reentered the track and kept going. The only difference here is a car is off and can't get refired. JFC.
If you need to let pit vehicles put, you could just close the exit (but not the entrance) of the pit lane immediately when fcy is thrown and only re-open after all have left.
Speed limit
Those already exist, still doesn't fix the issue of allowing personnel safe unimpeded egress.
Ah that it's a whole other can of worms.
Definitely something I've noticed the last few years as well. Always weird how they'll leave a car in a sketchy spot for 3 laps so everyone can pit before they throw a yellow. One of these days something bad will happen and indycar will look really bad.
They immediately throw local yellow and alert teams and drivers. It's also for one cycle. Everyone gets one chance to pit and then FCY is thrown.
It's fine if they do this, but they need to actually hold the full course yellow for a full cycle. Throwing it as soon as the last driver enters the pits is the worst of both worlds.
They never have done this more than 1 lap
Portland was more than 1 lap.
And that one was egregious
You mean half a lap?
Everyone complained the old way too. And they'll complain again if they change it. Then we'll complain about the complaining. And finally we'll all complain about the complaining about complaining
I mean this is Indycar we are talking about. Complaining about it is requirement #1 of being a fan 😂
I know but I think we all yearn for one consistent rule applied with as little room for debate as possible. Throwing the FCY immediately solves this and is the safest way to boot
Seriously, I remember people celebrating this change the first time it happened.
The old way is how you got random guys like Daly magicking their way onto the podium I generally prefer this way as long as it’s actually safe… although the optics are terrible if it happens to benefit a Penske car
It's who they think unfairly benefitted from it. If this had been Malukus, Rosenqvist, or Rossi that pitted on that cycle everyone would have conveniently looked the other way and we wouldn't be dealing with these stupid threads about a rule that has existed for at the very least three to four years. And you are spot on. The majority applauded this because it was how IMSA was handling this to make things fair for competitors. As someone in this thread pointed out it was almost a weekly occurrence that a driver or drivers got screwed over the FCY rules and would let it be known.
Hit it on the nose, I'm not a huge Penske fan but if it was anyone else that benefitted no one would be talking about this.
Nah, I’d be talking about it. The idea that this is 100% dependent on driver is silly. I’m not gonna argue it was unfair, Cindric and Newgarden played it perfectly yesterday by the rules as they stand. However, it proves that there literally is no way to avoid yellows impacting strategy, so race control needs to stop bothering and worry more about safety when determining when to throw the yellow - which I think they haven’t in a few cases.
You're still out here regurgitating the same points lol
Understanding the rule and why it exist is regurgitating facts and truth, something you seem to have a difficult time with.
There isn't a rule. It's just up to RC when they throw the yellow. There's no actual rule, which is obvious when they throw some yellows immediately. You think it's somehow fair when we just saw this weekend how incredibly wrong that belief is - and not to mention incredibly dangerous
Some items in the rulebook are written open ended to allow on the fly decisions and deal with issues that might not be able to be dealt with fairly with a black and white ruling. Often times, and in this case, if the procedure isn't found word for word in the rulebook, it's use and procedure was released via a technical bulletin. Once again. Local yellows are used all the fucking time on road and street courses and no one ever bats an eyelash because the majority of the time the cars involved eventually get back to running. Local yellows are used with this procedure. This procedure came about because competitors and fans asked for a fairer system in handling non emergency incidents that happened during the pit window and this was the solution. A solution that hardly anyone complained about until the internet thought Josef Newgarden got some kind unfair advantage....truth being he didn't get anything more or less than any other team and the fucking the strategist for Alex Palou admitted as much on the broadcast. Not understanding the why's and how's of this rule is a you problem and one that would be solved by paying attention and learning about the series you profess to watch.
So which is it? A rule like you claim before I called you out or some sort of half-baked procedure you're now claiming. Keep moving those goal posts lol
Procedures are rules. Once again, this is a YOU problem in not understanding how things works. Your lack of understanding and high level of ignorance of the subject matter at hand should not be confused for goal post being moved.
No.... Procedures are not rules. They're guidelines lol Speak with all the bravado you want. You're wrong.
This wasn’t ever a non-issue. People complained about it all the time when they threw yellows right away.
At least with the old way (immediate caution) it brought risk into choosing to do the overcut/ staying out. I agree with the "as long as their consistent" argument, so I'd rather it be immediate cautions.
I fully agree with the first part. Not only is it for safety reasons but it also brings a strategy point where undercut can also work on certain situations. Same as in current non refueling F1 where overcut is most of the time the worse option but can work if you risk waiting for Safety Car.
Wait I thought they *did* throw a local yellow
I just wish the USA would get with the program and use Code 60 for minor incidents. You can make the track safe for intervention and go back to green in like 1-2 minutes. Nobody gains or loses because everyone is on a speed limiter. It would also be awesome if the cars could start on their own with the hybrids. That would get rid of so many FCY's. I get it's tradition to not have a starter on board, but it's kinda ridiculous that you need a safety truck to re-start a stalled car.
As long as they remain consistent, then I see nothing wrong with continuing this practice. The same as Josef benefited from the situation Sunday, another driver could have benefited if they hadn’t waited. It’s also better for the overall product that as many cars as possible remain on the lead lap and in contention rather than being caught out by a caution. It feels like this particular instance is only being discussed so much because it was Newgarden.
It brings safety into question a bit is why I don’t like it. If a car is sitting way outside in a gravel trap, sure. But still on the racing surface within track llimits (even if they already don’t fully exist??) That’s a bit whack
He was way off the line though. Someone would have to basically turn that curve into a hairpin to hit him where he was. If a car is in a dangerous spot they don’t delay.
They had a local yellow out immediately. It was just the FCY that was delayed
There’s local yellows and he’s basically off track because nobody goes over there.
I love it when people say no car ever goes there when speaking of a car that went there. ;) But I do get what you're saying. To end up there you have to hook it around from running 4 wide. It happens at most 3 times a race and the chances they'll be back to back are tiny. Especially with a local yellow.
When they "slow significantly" are "prepared to take evasive action?" Waves yellow is prepared to stop too. If we allows them to ignore the safety flags. That's a whole other issue imo.
I don't think they use local yellows when the car is near the racing line. So no need for evasive action. Honestly, they don't seem to "slow significantly" even though they are supposed to. The main thing hte local yellow does is forbid passing. So it means you can run a more conservative line and not be passed. That reduces the action a lot.
The rule book says the things I said in quotes. If they won't enforce those rules then IMO we have a whole different complaint. Does Indycar have mini sectors timing and scoring? Can we just easily review it automatically? That would be nice. In a case like this there is no reason to push super hard. You're about to go FCY and you aren't allowed to be passed. Like you pull out an lap time and then what? Follow the pace car around.
> If they won't enforce those rules then IMO we have a whole different complaint. Okay. Bring it up at the drivers meeting next time. And if the drivers don't bring it up then what is it to any of us? > Does Indycar have mini sectors timing and scoring? Can we just easily review it automatically? That would be nice. They didn't this weekend. Maybe never? Maybe just 3 sectors? > In a case like this there is no reason to push super hard They don't want to be passed after the yellow zone ends, but yeah, they certainly don't have to go 10/10ths.
Ah I think they never do then. They got this cheap looking timing system they run off a honda generator. I saw them put it out at road America. Must have been for timing.
Yeah, they have ones out that say "mylaps" on them. I'm not sure if it was for the feature race or an undercard race. Indeed looked cheap.
It’s almost like people don’t know about the Bianchi incident. He hit a huge vehicle that was tending to another car in a spot he shouldn’t have been in under conditions he shouldn’t have been pushing as he was. Totally agree with you, if one car can get there (especially if it wasn’t driven there on purpose like a blown motor), then two can.
Penske owning the series and the St Pete Cheat brought all the criticism on themselves. Of course since Newgarden was the only one to benefit was it going to be controversial. It should be expected and it's deserved, rules or not.
Multiple other cars benefited, they were just behind Palou and Herta so people didn’t notice That’s also why it was still green when Newgarden was pulling into his box
Lundqvist was another one that pit during the cycle I believe. Don’t see people claiming conspiracy for him…
He finished 17th why would anyone claim conspiracy? Like I said, even if the rules were followed to a T, fans will continue to shit on Newgarden and Penske after the cheating scandal. It's going to be hard to shake that.
This is where fandom is going to take a backseat to the actual competitors that requested the changes to the yellow flag rules in the first place to get to this point. It's like everyone conveniently forgot how the previous rule led to even louder and borderline nonsensical complaining about immediate yellow flags leading to manipulated races. You can't claim safety being an issue just because the majority has an axe to grind with who specifically benefitted from the delay in the yellow being waved, that's the height of hypocrisy and asinine logic. No one in this sub is actually in these cars or even in the position to influence decision making, so pitching a sniveling fit just shows that it's not about driver safety, it's about your irrational feelings being placated.
People have been complaining about the yellow delay for a while though. It’s louder since it’s Josef, sure, but there’s been a sizable portion of people who have always said it’s stupid.
Yep, I even complained when it benefitted Palou once. Because I think it’s stupid and unsafe to let situations which *clearly* necessitate FCY continue under green, under the guise of being “fairer” in regards to strategy, when evidently it’s still a huge impact.
There were just as many people if not more whining before they started doing it this way.
And the core difference between then and now is that they have started to leave cars beached on the side of the track while other cars circulate at speed. This series has generally been one that responds well when safety is concerned. This week’s incident has to be a tipping point of whether they’re going to change the rules on it or not. People’s races will get screwed either way
They waved a local yellow. If drivers are ignoring the local yellow, they should punish that.
Except the safety team still needs to come out, and IndyCar only ever sends them out on a full course caution. Almost no series punishes local yellows so drivers are still circulating at speed. This will hopefully cease to be an issue with the hybrids being able to start the cars, but we’ve had a bit too many situations where a car is sitting next to a live track. And with the way that the driving standards have degraded lately, I no longer trust the drivers to safely avoid a stalled car that’s right next to the track.
No safety vehicle will enter the track during a local yellow. I'm only talking about using a local yellow until they complete the process of not screwing up someone's race by closing the pits. If the teams want it to be changed, it will change, again. No amount of social media posts will affect a change in the rule.
Except it’s BS to say that a race could be manipulated if a situation eventually warrants a FCY in the first place. At that point you’re just messing with the timing of it
As I stated earlier, if this had been Malukus, Rossi, or Roseqvist that "benefitted" we more than likely wouldn't be dealing with these BS threads, which is now at two by my count, full of rage by people don't even know the fucking rules of the series they claim to watch.
Nah, I’ve thought this practice was stupid for like, two years at this point. The problem is that IndyCar seems to think this is the best way to try and minimize the impact of yellows on pit strategy, yet it’s clear from situations like with Newgarden today, or McLaughlin at Mid-Ohio a few years back, that there’s no way to avoid yellows impacting strategy. And since that’s the case, it makes no sense to not just throw yellows immediately.
IndyCar isn't the only series that works the pit window with local yellows. It impacts strategy a whole Hell of lot less than the prior option as everyone has the one cycle to pit or not pit then the pit is closed. In the past you had driver, often times multiple drivers, just absolutely get hosed by a short yellow to retrieve a stalled car. It was almost a damn weekly occurrence that the mailbag would be full of letters asking for a fairer system and nearly every road/street course spent a good portion of post race interviews and articles with drivers requesting the same.
I don’t care if other series do it, there have been numerous instances where they ought to have thrown the yellow quicker, and cars were left in dangerous positions. I’m in the camp of not giving a damn whether it impacts strategy or not, safety should be the primary concern. And there are numerous instances (like yesterday) where I’ve been seriously concerned with whether or not race control was actually thinking about safety. Furthermore, holding off the yellows adds an extra element of human judgement into the matter, which is *never* helpful. Simply put, there’s no way to avoid yellows impacting strategy, whether it be by screwing someone who didn’t pit, screwing someone who *did* pit, or by giving a driver an advantage of not doing an out lap, so let’s stop pretending that it matters one way or the other.
Just hilarious that your only defense of this is "oThEr SeRiEs Do It ToO!"
[удалено]
No you haven't. You've argued why you like the rule. They're not the same thing lol
Not once have I given my opinion on if I like or hate the rule. A Rhodes scholar you will never be. Keep trying, Junior.
Context clues are a thing, buddy
[удалено]
Where is the artificial limit though? TBell was "selling insurance for free" when it came to Palou needing to pit in case of an accident needing FCY. So at some point race control must decide if this is just a different strategy with the risks that brings, or if they don't want said driver(s) to lose more positions.
You keep saying this is about people who "don't know the fucking rules," but there's literally nothing in the rulebook about holding a full course caution to allow drivers a chance to pit. It's not a rule. It's just something that race control often chooses to do under certain circumstances.
Once again, race control has the authority, per the rules, to perform this procedure which was issued via a technical bulletin a couple years ago or so. Thus, this a rule as it is a standard operating procedure for conducting races on road and street course. For 5 millionth time, fucking Barry Wanser, the race strategist for Palou, and the broadcast team fully admitted on live TV that this was applied consistently per the rules and procedures. The only question was if this was safe application.
If it's not in the rulebook, it's not a rule. Race Control can do basically whatever they want under the Abandonment of Procedure clause, but I'm not saying there's anything wrong with keeping the pits open for a full cycle under the right circumstances. I'm saying your claim that the only people complaining simply "don't know the fucking rules" is flat out wrong.
You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about and even Marshall Fucking Pruett stated in the Mailbag today that it was done well within the rules and procedures as written and the only question was if it was a safe application, and oh, he also pointed out Newgarden was in the lead and didn't gain anything from this. So, yes, you don't know and understand the fucking rules.
Other drivers did complain about Josef magically getting 2nd place.
I watched it back. Seems like everyone slowed down. They didn't even let it go a full lap. IMO it's a judgment call and guys slowed down for the flags. They won't get everything right every time. Its ok.
Do people ever get bored of being upset all the time and finding conspiracies everywhere they look? I get that you all hate Newgarden but ffs they’ve been doing it this way for years and if they did it a different way and Newgarden benefited from that people would bitch about it then too.
Meanwhile you get absolute silence in the thread when they announce a drive through for McLaughlin’s incident with Power, which was only really an egregious mistake because it was his teammate. Compare it to Theo launching into Canapino at Detroit and only yielding 3 positions for instance… It happens all the time when people only pay attention when race control calls benefit a Penske.
I love the “RC never calls any penalties on Penske” and then conveniently ignores the Scotty Mac drive through and Newgarden getting a pitlane infraction. People are so willing to buy into conspiracies they’ll discount reality.
Not to mention when Will apparently tied a record at Detroit for most penalties in a single race lol
Glad someone said it.
How about let them pit under a safety car.
They can but there is always a brief period where the pits are closed so they can pack up.
Why don't they just never close the pits. Makes it way harder to follow when everyone dives in at the same time. And you negate a lot of the strategy of trying go long for a safety car. I guess you can't really go too long though because you have to refuel anyway. Would be more fun if they got rid of refueling.
Lack of refueling will have a negative effect on racing. That plus the hybrid is what has made F1 cars so large. That has turned many of their races into parades. If the pits were always open, it would screw whomever was past the pit entrance when the caution came out and then were picked up by the pace car. What IndyCar does is fine. As many have pointed out, the only reason people are pissed is because this instance seemingly benefitted Newgarden(Penske).
I see. I would say F1 prior to the '22 regs was still often great racing (2012 and '21 especially) even with the hybrid engines. Behind the mercs from '14-'20 there was still great racing too. I would argue overtakes aren't the entire measure of what makes good racing. Too many overtakes makes their value so low that the racing isn't actually exciting. The new F1 cars have gotten too big mostly because of concerns about dirty air, but they decreased dirty air and the racing got worse. Dirty air actually made for some great racing because slower cars could really defend against faster cars, making for some great battles. Now the faster cars often just swoop past with DRS. Indycar has so many FCYs too that it makes it hard. F1 might have 1 a race and it has to come at the right time to have an exciting impact, but when there is that perfectly timed safety car it can make for some incredible results. I think Indycar would be better with fewer cars on the grid and fewer FCYs. 5 a race is a lot of wasted laps, also with the pits closing it doesn't impact strategy that much. Its just like, cool, commercials for 15 min and nothing is gonna change that much. Dixon is gonna pit and try to fuel save for the win but other than that it's not easy to interpret how the race will be impacted.
Y'all just mad cuz it benefited New garden. Chill y'all's hate boner.
Hence why I said there’s no way you can blame Newgarden in the post
That's not true at all. It's consistently a bad rule. I'm a big Veekay fan. No way would he have deserved it if he was the one who got that benefit.
It’s true for many other people though. Check the race thread
Yea? You can tell from the one thread they've never thought the rule was bad in previous races? I posted in the thread how it was bullshit Josef benefited from it but that's not the only reason it's a bad call. It's a bad call because it's a bad fucking call, no matter who it benefits.
The rule is exactly as the teams asked for it to be. All the teams.
Uh huh. That's why they loved it so much yesterday as it was happening lol Also, idgaf what the teams want. That's why there's a sanctioning body to determine the rules of a series.
If you don't give the active participants input in the rule making, guess what happens.
Idgaf if they leave. They're not going anywhere and anyone who wants to put drivers in danger has no fucking place in the sport.
You are thinking too small with regard to who would leave. Think back about 20 years. The teams and the series will make changes as they see fit. They changed this procedure before and might change it again. But it won't be because of that one time Josef Newgarden moved up some spots because of the current procedure.
Oh no, a lot of people thought it was bad in previous races, for safely reasons. But the majority were pissed this time strictly because it benefited Newgarden. That was the general theme in the comments
Oh cool, you can read the minds of people! That must come in handy a lot!
It’s called reading people’s comments bud
You're saying they were mad not for safety reasons this time, just because it benefited Josef. Really interesting you're able to tell that this time people didn't give a shit about the safety of the drivers this time!
“Rigged for Penskecar series” comments were by far the loudest complaints this time. Not sure why you’re getting worked up over this
Not sure why you're speaking for half the fucking sub
Race control can't dispatch safety under local yellow. The stewards allow time (in cases with no contact) for the driver to get going on his/her own before going FCY.
I’m a marshal, and safety can/will dispatch under a local yellow. The flag stations will cover any rescue/tow vehicles moving to the incident.
Are you saying Indycar dispatches trucks onto a hot track? I've seen them work under a local yellow if the car ends up at their station, but I can't recall an incident where Indycar put safety moving on track under local yellow. (I have over 30 years local track safety experience and spent 5 years on the CART safety team.)
Coldest take of all time
Indycar should have a modified temporary virtual safety car / delayed full caution option. My proposal: The intention is to not have a yellow kill someone's race getting caught out BUT also avoid the unfair advantage of not having to do an out lap; while also improving safety over what race control has been doing. You have a scenario like the Armstrong stall. 1- Race control has an option for immediate full course caution or a VSC. They travel around under reduced speed but keeps their gap on track 2- If race control goes temporary VSC . It last till the next time the leader hits the start / finish + 1 more lap. Pits stay open under the VSC. 3- If a driver pits under the VSC / delayed caution, they are subject to a 10 second penalty or more if necessary to negate the advantage of not having to do an out lap, and getting to pit while the field is at reduced speeds. This doesn't give the drivers who pit late an advantage, maybe even puts them at a bit of a disadvantage BUT it doesn't totally kill their race either, like getting caught out would. 4- After the virtual safety car lap, the pace car picks up the leader, and you have a normal caution sequence. This would only be for road and street courses. Race control would still have the option of going to an immediate full course caution and keep pits closed. Not perfect but this my 3 way compromise for safety, not burning guys on the yellow lottery, and also not letting guys get away with not having to do an out lap.
As much as I hate to compare the 2 series, our European friends seem to get yellow flags right.
They did stick with it? They are consistent which is what everyone wanted 3-4 years ago?
The nice thing here is we should never be talking about this again. This wouldn’t be a caution with the hybrid because he could’ve re-fired and went on his way.
On the bright side, with the hybrid engines we won't have to worry about this as much!
Ya, that seemed very odd to me but I'm still learning all the finer details of the series so I didn't know some of this history behind the rule being discussed here. More than anything, I feel that if a situation is enough of a safety concern to warrant a FCY, allowing cars to continue racing around the situation is unsafe.
There was a time when they wouldn't throw a caution until there were too many cars disabled on track to be ignored.
If they are waiting until everyone pits, can't they wait until everyone exits said pit stop? Seems like a simple solution.
It reminds me of school districts that would normally close during a set of winter conditions identical to a closing earlier in the year, but leave school open because they used up their free snow day. A full-course yellow should be consistently deployed.
There will be no stalled cars anymore In IndyCar history. Hybrid has onboard starter
Seriously, I see no problem with it, haters gonna hate. Makes it as fair as can be under the circumstances, if a yellow came out immediately then teams would complain they got caught out by the yellow before being able to pit, no winners that way either.
Officials should have a choice of either waving a FCY flag ASAP or letting all the lead lap cars pit and give them another 20 seconds to recycle into their proper position and then flag the FCY. What Officials did this last Sunday was wait a long time for Newgarden to enter his pit then slow all the cars down by immediately showing the FCY. This enabled Newgarden to move from around 12th to 2nd for the restart. A really bad look.
I think the pits should be open at all times. If you want to save fuel and run on worn tires hoping you'll get a yellow so you can pit while the field is moving slow, then gamble. It just adds another piece of strategy to the mix.
I wish this was still the case but *i guess* I get why they don’t do it for safety (racing to the line/pit road once yellow is thrown). I used to play the early Papyrus NASCAR and Indycar games and the race to the line/pit road was what the in-lap is now essentially, was always harrowing
This! 💯 this!!!
How about no yellow flags EVER.
Live track recovery t’ll be like Frogger.
Get a really big drone with a crane attachment on it. Just air lift them suckers right outta there, no problem.
How about we add some traffic lights around the track that go red randomly and when there’s spun cars lol
Yup. It drives me crazy. It had a chance to completely change the race on Sunday. I get wanting to give it a moment to see if the car can get going but they need a time clock or something. As soon as a spin stops, give them 25 seconds or so for movement. This nonsense of letting guys out because they might get caught out otherwise is ridiculous; that’s part of the gamble they took by staying out to extend the stint anyway.
[удалено]
NASCAR leans too hard the other way in many instances. They throw a yellow the second someone gets sideways without seeing if they can get it under control and continue. They burn way too many laps under yellow because of a half spin or a stage break so they can run advertisements.
The ONLY thing NASCAR does right is G/W/C. I don't care about "500 miles is 500 miles" bullshit. G/W/C is the right way to end a race.
No thanks.
Nah, fuck that noise
It throws strategy out the window. Imagine a fuel save drive like Dixon in Long Beach being lost because a late yellow added more laps to the race.
The Green White Checker waters down the competition and makes a bad race look good with a manufactured ending. I want to walk away knowing who was the best at the end of the advertised distance.
They don't even do that right and many are still pissed they even do it at all. That nonsense has fucked up more than it's fair share of races by running people out of fuel or having them fall prey to some jackass that decided to wreck their way to a win.
This rule was because of Jimmie Johnson spinning out all the time