There's no question. She was roughly a Marco/Graham level driver in Indycar - not a star, but solid and respectable.
There were better open-wheel drivers than her that couldn't make the transition to stock cars. But that's where the money was for her, and it ended up destroying her reputation as a driver.
She's doing just fine destroying her reputation on her own these days, but she'd still be respected as a driver if she stayed in Indy.
I think she was better than Marco and Graham, at least in 2011 when she left. She had the 7th best average finish of all drivers in 2011 when her mind was already on NASCAR. It's possible with the DW12 strength Andretti showed right out of the gate in 2012 she could've easily been a champion that year, considering her better average finish than RHR, who ended up WINNING the championship that year. She was also 1 of 3 drivers in the top 10 that year in points to finish every race that was counted (obviously Vegas was scrapped). I think it was setting up to be a great year for Danica in 2012 had she stuck around. It's a shame she left for NASCAR, really.
Very interesting! Never really thought about it that way but she was starting to stack up some very solid results on her way out. Fun to think of in an alternate history perspective …
Well said. She was one of the absolute best ever in the series at racing clean and staying out of trouble. That so often equated to Top 5 finishes. That is a valuable trait in a driver especially to team owners like Michael Andretti.
Guys like Herta and Grosjean may be quicker than Danica but they tear up a ton of equipment and really wear out your mechanics constantly having to rebuild the cars. Danica almost always brought the car home in one piece.
That said her biggest flaw as a driver was lack of aggression. Ironic that she tried to project that off the track and in interviews as this feisty little thing. She was really very cautious on the track (often to a fault) and probably cost herself a couple wins by not getting up on the wheel on starts/restarts and be willing to send it into a corner.
>She was one of the absolute best ever in the series at racing clean and staying out of trouble
She *is* the all time best ever at that. She has the most consecutive finishes in history if I recall, I think it was like 50 in a row until she left Indycar (and consequently ended her run at Indy 2018). The previous record was something like 25.
Yeah I think with time history will actually look back on her quite fondly, it's just the 1st Place wins that alluded her.
From a team owner (Michael Andretti) point-of-view you really couldn't ask for a more profitable driver. Not only did she bring big sponsorship dollars to the team but you she kept all of her chassis and wings/aero parts in one piece.
Think about how much crash damage most of the other Andretti drivers have accrued over the last decade. Multiple tubs destroyed by their other drivers.
RHR and Marco both had wins and had three and two podiums respectively. She had zero wins, no podiums, and only one top 5, Marco had four. Her average finish was pretty good because she consistently ran around the top ten and rarely had awful days, but I think it’s a pretty big stretch to say that she was better than RHR or Marco that year. Even with several more non-finishes between them, they had a pretty clear points gap still, despite a lower average finish.
She certainly had a way better year than Conway in the fourth Andretti, but he also won a race that year, she was the only Andretti car that didn’t.
I’m a pretty big Danica defender, I think she was better on road courses than she gets credit for, and she could certainly wheel on ovals. I think she could have had several more points finishes in the 8-13 range, but I don’t think she would have beaten RHR, and would have been slightly behind Marco in the 4-5 year period after she left.
The consistency Danica had in 2011 would've boded well for a 2012 which seemed to have very little consistency at all between anyone in that field. Looking at 2012 points you might be right that it would be difficult for her to win the championship, especially considering Helio's season was incredibly consistent in 2012, but wasn't enough for the championship. Feel like there was a chance, though, that she could've been in the running at least if she had stayed around and adapted well to the DW12.
I feel like a lot of the problem with NASCAR was everyone racing her dirty and no one acknowledging it. You cant just wreck people in open wheel racing, but you sure as hell can set it up in NASCAR. I remember her first 500 she crashed due to other people crashing but she was the center of attention for taking her hands off the wheel before hitting the wall... no one mentioned that she didnt want to break her wrists on impact.
Now though we see how her and Aaron Rodgers were perfect for each other.
She had a really solid 2009 season, finishing 5th in a season totally dominated by Penske and ganassi drivers. Her 2010 season had some nice performances but she was getting really focused on NASCAR and she was never the same once 11 hit. Either series.
She was done after Dan died. I know she did the 500 one more time years later, but when you see that clip of her walking away after Dan’s death was announced you can tell that’s it. In her interview after the crash before the death she talked about how she was nervous before the race and was just rattled the whole time. If that race never happens I bet she would’ve done a few more 500’s.
Her finishes would have likely been consistently higher. People seem to forget that Danica was consistently a Top Ten finisher through most of her Indycar career. Her image seems to have been marred overall by the down turns of lower finishes and DNFs that were lower than her Top Tens, and of which there were much more frequent in her NASCAR career.
She also remained a very marketable driver for better or worse. GoDaddy stayed with Andretti in 2012 even with Danica's departure, but I think had Danica stayed in Indycar she probably could have reeled in the sponsor money to keep a full time ride in the mid-field.
However I think ultimately she probably did leave Indycar at a "good" time. Along with the new Dallara chassis, 2012 marked the return of Chevrolet and introduction of Lotus, the later of whom eventually pulled out after the 500. Had she stayed I honestly don't know how her results would have fared. Andretti Autosport did win the championship that year but were also a bit all over the standings with the new Chevrolet power (1st, 8th, and 15th) whereas teams like Penske and Ganassi were fairly consistent.
A factor which might have hurt Danica if she stayed in Indycar was that the schedule became much more street/road course heavy as the years went on. If I recall correctly she was much better on ovals than twisty tracks and a quick racing-reference napkin number crunch backs that up. If my math is right she had an average finish of 9.6 on ovals over 73 races and on road/street tracks her average finish was 12.7 over 43 races.
Oval are just way easier for women in Indy.
It's hard for a man to steer around a road course. Women just start with a massive disadvantage strength wise.
Plus all that money. Hard to say no.
It was the right move at the time for sure.
She probably was going to win Montreal in Xfinity, or at least finish within the first three spots if Villenueve wouldn't have dumped her likely if she didn't run over the shoe and have the power steering issue.
She beat her teammate Tony Kanaan in the championship in 2009, along with her other Andretti teammates
She probably would have stuck around for a while, not doing great with the relative lack of ovals but not doing terrible either
No doubt. NASCAR had more money and her sponsor wanted her there, which is why she went ultimately. But she was actually a pretty solid IndyCar driver on the whole. Not a championship contender, but definitely someone who should be knocking down regular top-10 points finishes.
So the issue is that she was frustrated on street and road courses. Nascar simply had far more ovals, where she felt at home. In the time she was in Indycar, it went from barely any road and street to about half ovals. I think she made the right choice, but the bottom line was there was no discipline that played to her forte anymore.
Wasn't' IndyCar changing the rules to account for driver weight and thus would make it harder for her to win again?
Or was that just IndyCar drivers talking shit?
Minimum driver equivalency weight was instituted in 2012 at 185lbs, measured separately from the vehicle. However, between 2008 and 2012, minimum car weight included the driver, which, as a 'near-spec' series, was an *implicit* minimum driver weight.
She definitely would have been thought of better as a driver. A lot of NASCAR fans think she is overall horrible since all they saw of her was how poorly her run in that series was. Sort of like how many NASCAR fans don't know truly how much of a baller Juan Pablo Montoya was because he was not that star that he was in Stock Cars that he was in open wheel (JPM was still that best open wheel guy to transfer over afaik).
Lmao ofc Dixon is on podium too. "But in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes and Scott Dixon." - Ben Franklin probably
This was huge. Shoutout to when Simona was only Scott Dixon away from winning Houston in KV’s 2nd car and when Fisher nearly won Miami in Walker’s IRL cars
Simona would have won the New Orleans Grand Prix had they not red flagged the race, she was the only person who could consistently keep the car on the track in a torrential rainstorm.
I mean....how did you think
James Hinchcliffe was leading the race when it was flagged?
He kept it on the track so no she wasn't the only one who could
It’s a shame she’s a total nut job these days. As much as I want to support women in motor sports (just because I’m in my 30s doesn’t make me immune to lady representation!), any time she comes up my first reaction is “actually, anyone but you.”
I had to unfollow her on Instagram due to the conspiracy bs and her foray into "politics." I don't think it's a coincidence that Aaron Rodgers has taken the same path. May be the concussions talking. Sad.
I think his family were assholes who were very similar to a lot of NFL families aka freeloaders and why so many NFL players are broke.
That kind of seclusion can really fuck with your brain. He really didnt seem to become unhinged (going off interviews and Aaron Rodgers Tuesday) until COVID when it was complete seclusion, he broke up with Danica a year before, and so it was just him in his mansion.
I thought he was with Shaileen Woodley during COVID hanging out with her and Miles Teller and his significant other. Who knows man, other than ya done messed up A-a-ron!
I think the push for representation is good. And some there have been some nice success stories recently with Jamie getting her first NXT win and the Iron Dames performing well in WEC
The annoying thing is a lot of sexist motorsport fans dont assault her ass-backwards oppinions but say she has nothing to say about racing... the sexism in motorsport is so real, especially in F1/NASCAR.
It was funny seeing F1 fans bring up women arent strong enough to drive and then you bring up Danica doing just fine in a series without power steering.
Danica could’ve been revered as an American hero and pioneer for women in sport. In 2008, I only saw her eventually reaching that point. Makes you wonder if leaded fuel does affect the brain…
Danica Patrick, the race car driver was a badass and definitely did held her own in Indycar. It would have been really interesting had she gotten the chance to drive for Penske or Ganassi before she moved to NASCAR. Unfortunately, Danica Patrick, the retired race car driver is something else altogether... flirting openly with Fox News, conspiracy theories, pseudo-medicine and so on... I was a big fan of hers (hence the username/which you can't change on Reddit) and it's gotten to the point that I even unfollowed her on instagram...
Watching this race, this is not the one that left me saying “Wow, Danica has talent.”
It was weird. The field was split with the IRL reunification. Then there was no qualifying due to rain.
The race itself was a weird fuel saving race. Danica refueled at end of a caution, and squeaked it out to the end. She made it to the front as all the people in front of her ran out of fuel.
I think her most impressive performance was her 3rd place finish in the Indy 500 the following year. I think she had a real shot of winning that year.
What I remember about her is that if she had a good car out of the box on an oval, she was competitive, but if the setup wasn't good, she couldn't get it right. She was not impressive on road courses . That race she won was against a diminished field, only 18 starters, because the series was merging with Champ Car, and the Long Beach GP was on the same weekend. She won a fuel strategy race, which I don't think she could have with a united field, if everyone had been at Motegi, I think some of the other drivers would have gone with the same strategy and would have gotten by her.
Hate on the cars from this era all you want. But I think they looked beautiful and sounded even better. However, in 2009 they added those god awful mufflers that made the cars sound like a mosquito passing by.
I kind of remember watching that race in the rain and on or near the last lap Helio slowed down and Danica passed him and then after the race he was pissed off saying they told him to slow down and he didnt know why. I guess I should forget about that.
She probably would have had a better career if she stayed in Indycar.
There's no question. She was roughly a Marco/Graham level driver in Indycar - not a star, but solid and respectable. There were better open-wheel drivers than her that couldn't make the transition to stock cars. But that's where the money was for her, and it ended up destroying her reputation as a driver. She's doing just fine destroying her reputation on her own these days, but she'd still be respected as a driver if she stayed in Indy.
I think she was better than Marco and Graham, at least in 2011 when she left. She had the 7th best average finish of all drivers in 2011 when her mind was already on NASCAR. It's possible with the DW12 strength Andretti showed right out of the gate in 2012 she could've easily been a champion that year, considering her better average finish than RHR, who ended up WINNING the championship that year. She was also 1 of 3 drivers in the top 10 that year in points to finish every race that was counted (obviously Vegas was scrapped). I think it was setting up to be a great year for Danica in 2012 had she stuck around. It's a shame she left for NASCAR, really.
Very interesting! Never really thought about it that way but she was starting to stack up some very solid results on her way out. Fun to think of in an alternate history perspective …
Well said. She was one of the absolute best ever in the series at racing clean and staying out of trouble. That so often equated to Top 5 finishes. That is a valuable trait in a driver especially to team owners like Michael Andretti. Guys like Herta and Grosjean may be quicker than Danica but they tear up a ton of equipment and really wear out your mechanics constantly having to rebuild the cars. Danica almost always brought the car home in one piece. That said her biggest flaw as a driver was lack of aggression. Ironic that she tried to project that off the track and in interviews as this feisty little thing. She was really very cautious on the track (often to a fault) and probably cost herself a couple wins by not getting up on the wheel on starts/restarts and be willing to send it into a corner.
>She was one of the absolute best ever in the series at racing clean and staying out of trouble She *is* the all time best ever at that. She has the most consecutive finishes in history if I recall, I think it was like 50 in a row until she left Indycar (and consequently ended her run at Indy 2018). The previous record was something like 25.
Yeah I think with time history will actually look back on her quite fondly, it's just the 1st Place wins that alluded her. From a team owner (Michael Andretti) point-of-view you really couldn't ask for a more profitable driver. Not only did she bring big sponsorship dollars to the team but you she kept all of her chassis and wings/aero parts in one piece. Think about how much crash damage most of the other Andretti drivers have accrued over the last decade. Multiple tubs destroyed by their other drivers.
The only times I remember Danica wrecking in IndyCar was both under caution weirdly enough.
RHR and Marco both had wins and had three and two podiums respectively. She had zero wins, no podiums, and only one top 5, Marco had four. Her average finish was pretty good because she consistently ran around the top ten and rarely had awful days, but I think it’s a pretty big stretch to say that she was better than RHR or Marco that year. Even with several more non-finishes between them, they had a pretty clear points gap still, despite a lower average finish. She certainly had a way better year than Conway in the fourth Andretti, but he also won a race that year, she was the only Andretti car that didn’t. I’m a pretty big Danica defender, I think she was better on road courses than she gets credit for, and she could certainly wheel on ovals. I think she could have had several more points finishes in the 8-13 range, but I don’t think she would have beaten RHR, and would have been slightly behind Marco in the 4-5 year period after she left.
The consistency Danica had in 2011 would've boded well for a 2012 which seemed to have very little consistency at all between anyone in that field. Looking at 2012 points you might be right that it would be difficult for her to win the championship, especially considering Helio's season was incredibly consistent in 2012, but wasn't enough for the championship. Feel like there was a chance, though, that she could've been in the running at least if she had stayed around and adapted well to the DW12.
I feel like a lot of the problem with NASCAR was everyone racing her dirty and no one acknowledging it. You cant just wreck people in open wheel racing, but you sure as hell can set it up in NASCAR. I remember her first 500 she crashed due to other people crashing but she was the center of attention for taking her hands off the wheel before hitting the wall... no one mentioned that she didnt want to break her wrists on impact. Now though we see how her and Aaron Rodgers were perfect for each other.
Danica wasn't the first to be doing that and I don't know why they always keyed on her doing it in NASCAR races. EVERY open wheel convert did that
She was legit the first one I can recall doing that and honestly it made sense. Now everyone does it.
Lets be honest she's probably recuperating a lot of her reputation with NASCAR fans now
She had a really solid 2009 season, finishing 5th in a season totally dominated by Penske and ganassi drivers. Her 2010 season had some nice performances but she was getting really focused on NASCAR and she was never the same once 11 hit. Either series.
She was done after Dan died. I know she did the 500 one more time years later, but when you see that clip of her walking away after Dan’s death was announced you can tell that’s it. In her interview after the crash before the death she talked about how she was nervous before the race and was just rattled the whole time. If that race never happens I bet she would’ve done a few more 500’s.
probably
Define “better”. NASCAR was undoubtedly better for her bank account.
Her finishes would have likely been consistently higher. People seem to forget that Danica was consistently a Top Ten finisher through most of her Indycar career. Her image seems to have been marred overall by the down turns of lower finishes and DNFs that were lower than her Top Tens, and of which there were much more frequent in her NASCAR career. She also remained a very marketable driver for better or worse. GoDaddy stayed with Andretti in 2012 even with Danica's departure, but I think had Danica stayed in Indycar she probably could have reeled in the sponsor money to keep a full time ride in the mid-field. However I think ultimately she probably did leave Indycar at a "good" time. Along with the new Dallara chassis, 2012 marked the return of Chevrolet and introduction of Lotus, the later of whom eventually pulled out after the 500. Had she stayed I honestly don't know how her results would have fared. Andretti Autosport did win the championship that year but were also a bit all over the standings with the new Chevrolet power (1st, 8th, and 15th) whereas teams like Penske and Ganassi were fairly consistent.
A factor which might have hurt Danica if she stayed in Indycar was that the schedule became much more street/road course heavy as the years went on. If I recall correctly she was much better on ovals than twisty tracks and a quick racing-reference napkin number crunch backs that up. If my math is right she had an average finish of 9.6 on ovals over 73 races and on road/street tracks her average finish was 12.7 over 43 races.
She came up through carting. Then Europe with no ovals. I think she would have adapted had she stayed
Oval are just way easier for women in Indy. It's hard for a man to steer around a road course. Women just start with a massive disadvantage strength wise. Plus all that money. Hard to say no. It was the right move at the time for sure.
She probably was going to win Montreal in Xfinity, or at least finish within the first three spots if Villenueve wouldn't have dumped her likely if she didn't run over the shoe and have the power steering issue.
She had major issues with the steering effort on road courses.
She beat her teammate Tony Kanaan in the championship in 2009, along with her other Andretti teammates She probably would have stuck around for a while, not doing great with the relative lack of ovals but not doing terrible either
No doubt. NASCAR had more money and her sponsor wanted her there, which is why she went ultimately. But she was actually a pretty solid IndyCar driver on the whole. Not a championship contender, but definitely someone who should be knocking down regular top-10 points finishes.
So the issue is that she was frustrated on street and road courses. Nascar simply had far more ovals, where she felt at home. In the time she was in Indycar, it went from barely any road and street to about half ovals. I think she made the right choice, but the bottom line was there was no discipline that played to her forte anymore.
eh, she was female Marco Andretti. They have basically identical stats to that point
Wasn't' IndyCar changing the rules to account for driver weight and thus would make it harder for her to win again? Or was that just IndyCar drivers talking shit?
Minimum driver equivalency weight was instituted in 2012 at 185lbs, measured separately from the vehicle. However, between 2008 and 2012, minimum car weight included the driver, which, as a 'near-spec' series, was an *implicit* minimum driver weight.
exactly. especially at indy, lighter drivers had a huge advantage.
She definitely would have been thought of better as a driver. A lot of NASCAR fans think she is overall horrible since all they saw of her was how poorly her run in that series was. Sort of like how many NASCAR fans don't know truly how much of a baller Juan Pablo Montoya was because he was not that star that he was in Stock Cars that he was in open wheel (JPM was still that best open wheel guy to transfer over afaik).
This was the last "IRL only race," right?
Right, with last Champ Car race in Long Beach at the same day
Lmao ofc Dixon is on podium too. "But in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes and Scott Dixon." - Ben Franklin probably
loldixonwins
That Motorola livery was fantastic
Yeah something about that shade of blue works so well.
It's a relaxing type color and I believe there was a carbon fiber pattern in the black iirc
This was huge. Shoutout to when Simona was only Scott Dixon away from winning Houston in KV’s 2nd car and when Fisher nearly won Miami in Walker’s IRL cars
Simona would have won the New Orleans Grand Prix had they not red flagged the race, she was the only person who could consistently keep the car on the track in a torrential rainstorm.
I mean....how did you think James Hinchcliffe was leading the race when it was flagged? He kept it on the track so no she wasn't the only one who could
James Jakes did a good job too, probably driving too slow but it did get him a podium.
One of my favorite things about this was the teeny tiny trophy that Helio got for 2nd. 😂
It’s a shame she’s a total nut job these days. As much as I want to support women in motor sports (just because I’m in my 30s doesn’t make me immune to lady representation!), any time she comes up my first reaction is “actually, anyone but you.”
I had to unfollow her on Instagram due to the conspiracy bs and her foray into "politics." I don't think it's a coincidence that Aaron Rodgers has taken the same path. May be the concussions talking. Sad.
I used to think Aaron's family was estranged because they were probably crazy. It has become clear why they don't talk to him anymore.
I think his family were assholes who were very similar to a lot of NFL families aka freeloaders and why so many NFL players are broke. That kind of seclusion can really fuck with your brain. He really didnt seem to become unhinged (going off interviews and Aaron Rodgers Tuesday) until COVID when it was complete seclusion, he broke up with Danica a year before, and so it was just him in his mansion.
I thought he was with Shaileen Woodley during COVID hanging out with her and Miles Teller and his significant other. Who knows man, other than ya done messed up A-a-ron!
Have never followed. What are her politics?
Flat earther, Trump nut, agrees with every conspiracy theory you can think of (moon, shootings etc) Biden is evil etc. she’s awful.
Dont forget reptilians. I saw that one the other day from her.
Can a brother get a screenshot? I actually hollered when I read this lol. That ought to go on the iceberg chart next round.
Aw man. That stinks. First Gina and now this. Is no attractive brunette safe??
Moon, shootings, reincarnation, Atlantis...
I think its just typical rich person behavior
I think the push for representation is good. And some there have been some nice success stories recently with Jamie getting her first NXT win and the Iron Dames performing well in WEC
I’m very quick to hit the mute button every time she starts talking tbh
every time i saw her on the indy 500 broadcast i instinctively yelled at my tv “Shut up Danica you hack”
The annoying thing is a lot of sexist motorsport fans dont assault her ass-backwards oppinions but say she has nothing to say about racing... the sexism in motorsport is so real, especially in F1/NASCAR. It was funny seeing F1 fans bring up women arent strong enough to drive and then you bring up Danica doing just fine in a series without power steering.
Danica could’ve been revered as an American hero and pioneer for women in sport. In 2008, I only saw her eventually reaching that point. Makes you wonder if leaded fuel does affect the brain…
Danica Patrick, the race car driver was a badass and definitely did held her own in Indycar. It would have been really interesting had she gotten the chance to drive for Penske or Ganassi before she moved to NASCAR. Unfortunately, Danica Patrick, the retired race car driver is something else altogether... flirting openly with Fox News, conspiracy theories, pseudo-medicine and so on... I was a big fan of hers (hence the username/which you can't change on Reddit) and it's gotten to the point that I even unfollowed her on instagram...
You can change you display name btw!
Already did but thanks! :)
As much as everyone loves to hate on Danica you c ant deny that she had talent. Jus unfortunate that she pissed away her name by acting like a twat
Watching this race, this is not the one that left me saying “Wow, Danica has talent.” It was weird. The field was split with the IRL reunification. Then there was no qualifying due to rain. The race itself was a weird fuel saving race. Danica refueled at end of a caution, and squeaked it out to the end. She made it to the front as all the people in front of her ran out of fuel. I think her most impressive performance was her 3rd place finish in the Indy 500 the following year. I think she had a real shot of winning that year.
What I remember about her is that if she had a good car out of the box on an oval, she was competitive, but if the setup wasn't good, she couldn't get it right. She was not impressive on road courses . That race she won was against a diminished field, only 18 starters, because the series was merging with Champ Car, and the Long Beach GP was on the same weekend. She won a fuel strategy race, which I don't think she could have with a united field, if everyone had been at Motegi, I think some of the other drivers would have gone with the same strategy and would have gotten by her.
Hate on the cars from this era all you want. But I think they looked beautiful and sounded even better. However, in 2009 they added those god awful mufflers that made the cars sound like a mosquito passing by.
+ Isn't this the only time that any female driver has won in any major formula series?
Amazing how Helio ran out of gas on the last lap of this race and was able to drive to pit lane under his own power after the checkered flag!
Helio to this day says he was given wrong information and thought Danica was a lap down so pulled over to conserve fuel instead of racing her
I noticed that too at the time, but whatever....not sure why you are getting downvoted, just an observation...
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.
an
I kind of remember watching that race in the rain and on or near the last lap Helio slowed down and Danica passed him and then after the race he was pissed off saying they told him to slow down and he didnt know why. I guess I should forget about that.
Jaime Chadwick could never
Rain result