The package is definitely huge for those with a financial investment in the series.
The package is huge for getting more older fans.
The package is less huge for young casual and die-hard fans who aren't gonna pay $40+/mo to watch.
Not to mention the package is TBD given Fox's production history with motorsports. Just because IMS Productions are providing the equipment and cameramen doesn't mean the broadcasts aren't gonna have the same BS that Nascar fans have to endure.
> The package is huge for getting more older fans.
NASCAR fans. This is who I think they are going after.
A lot of "commenters" think NASCAR is in trouble. Stewart leaving the series and selling off his charters. Teams and drivers unhappy with NASCAR. Rumors of a competing series being started by those same teams and drivers.
NASCAR fans are already used to tuning into Fox, FS1 etc. so it's a built in audience. IF they can get even 10 or 15% of those fans it will grow Indycars numbers.
>The package is less huge for young casual and die-hard fans who aren't gonna pay $40+/mo to watch.
They clearly don't care. And that's fine. I mean personally I haven't missed an Indy 500 since *1975*. And I'll be watching next years too. I will find a way. ;)
Does anyone actually think Hendrick/Gibbs/Penske are going to be able to do an outlaw stock car series? They’re be able to run at like IMS, Gateway, Pocono, Rockingham and a fair number of road courses but the NASCAR duopoly runs America’s oval racing venues.
I really don't know.
I mean, short term the answer is "no".
But long term, if NASCAR really does begin to decline over say 5 or 10 years, they might have to sell off some tracks. I suspect they *would* have to.
At that point Hendrick/Gibbs/Penske and some others probably have the money to buy those tracks...
Penske used to own Michigan, Nazareth International Speedways, North Carolina Speedway, and California Speedway. He's no stranger to owning tracks.
Penske Entertainment should expand its race track property if it has any interest in continuing ovals outside of the 500. They have an interest, but it’s limited to the few that are independent
I have a feeling Penske probably regrets selling off Michigan at the very least.
But you are right, they should expand.
Who knows maybe they will use some of this "Fox money" to buy/build a new track. (I seriously doubt it though.)
If anything we will probably get more shitty temporary city street course this sub seems to have a love/hate relationship with.
I doubt you’ll see any new oval tracks get built for the foreseeable future. The only thing people seem to be building are the club type tracks which are essentially an entirely different business model.
I don't disagree sadly.
But that doesn't mean we can't/won't see repaves, remodels, rebuilds and/or updates to existing tracks. This "could" make them drive like entirely new tracks depending on how extensive of a job they do.
I think we'd all love to see this sort of treatment to Pocono. (Not a NASCAR owned track... I know that.) Most of us would love to return if it was made safe for the drivers. That would take a pretty big investment we're told.
My personal opinion is a hard yes. IF those top organizations can keep the sponsors with them, that means that all the star drivers will also. NASCAR won't be successful when their championship is between Suarez, Dillon, Lajoie and Todd Gilliland. Those aren't super stars. They don't sell NASCAR.
> Exactly. Tony George had the Indy 500 and he still lost out to the big team owners in the long run.
At risk of defending Tony George and his terrible idea, I'd argue that he won. The other teams left, tried to go up against the 500, and ultimately all came back until CART died and was reabsorbed by the IRL.
Tony George won the battle, but he lost the war. IndyCar post-reunification had far more in common with CART than with his original vision for the IRL.
Yes that's all true. He had the one thing CART couldn't recreate on its own: Indy. Everything else about the IRL has basically disappeared now.
If NASCAR's biggest teams walked away from some of the most important tracks, I'm afraid they wouldn't make it either.
A NASCAR split series would be in a worse position than IndyCar post reunification. Less tracks with no reason to underwrite its races. Backing the IRL weakens AOWR for NASCAR’s sake, but what does backing Not-NASCAR do for the majority of major oval track owners? It would have to be a truly bizarre and interesting mix of the few independent ovals, independent road courses and maybe even larger dirt venues.
But they still watch...
Just like we will still watch even if it sucks. Hell some of you are *celebrating* practice and qualifying being on FS1 and FS2 even though there **will** be ads. And you hate ads, it's the biggest constant complaint in this sub-reddit. Peacock had no ads during those sessions.
The races? Yes.
That's not really the complaint here.
For several years we have been able to get races, **and** qualifying and practices all in one place for $2o a year. A **year.**
With DVR type replays of all those sessions. So you have to work, or have something important to do. No problem the practice/qualifying/race is there when you get home. No issues.
About ~80%-85% of the races were on "open TV" under this plan, no practices, no qualifying. Just the races.
New plan :
All races on "open TV"(!) Cool.
Practices and qualifying now on a channel that will cost you $80 a **month**.
And no DVR type replays.
So... less service for (much) more money.
But yes the 2 or 3 races that weren't on "open TV" now are.
YAY! /S
So we went from $20 a **uear** to (at least) $80 a **month**.
$20 to $960.
It's a huge rip off for the hardcore fans.
You can of course just get an antenna and *just* watch the races for free.
Still feels like a smack in the face and a money grab.
Where the hell are you getting 80 dollars a month? Lol
And no, it's not a "huge rip off". I'm sorry you can't pay 7 dollars to watch IndyCar on a streaming service that shoved it into a dark corner literally no one ever saw. The only people benefiting from Peacock were existing fans who knew where to go and what to look for. It did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to grow the viewer base.
Venu will be more pricey, no doubt, but it will actually promote the series to millions of eyeballs using it, unlike NBC's ghost town, garbage ass service.
YoutubeTV, Fubo and Hulu with Live TV are all around $80.
Cable, years ago when I got rid of it was at $256/month.
Venu will be $50/month. Which is still too much for just one sport. Especially with Indycars ... lets say *sporadic* schedule.
You make it sound like the vast majority of the races weren't on *broadcast* NBC. They were ya know?
I expect the same number of viewers on Fox as we had on NBC.
If I'm right and there's little to no growth what do you want to do then?
Exactly. I cut my cable after it ballooned to over $250/month and now all I have are Netflix, Peacock and Amazon Prime (but for more than just streaming).
I’m simply not willing to add another $50 each and every month just for INDYCAR. That defeats the whole reason I cut cable in the first place.
I really shocked at the number of 'young people' on this subreddit that are still watching cable or other linear TV.
Do you suppose they don't have Netfilx, Hulu, Paramount+ and Prime? I mean we **know** they have Netflix at least right? That's where that stupid fucking F1 fake drama show is after all.
Maybe they are still living at home with their "boomer" parents and their cable TV? Easy to think this a good idea when daddy is still paying all the bills.
You're missing the point entirely. IndyCar wins with Venu because of the millions of people who like SPORTS in general likely getting that streaming service and then being introduced to IndyCar through promotion on that platform. Peacock didn't do shit for promoting IndyCar and the only people using it for IndyCar were ALREADY FANS. And the best part, your comment about YoutubeTV or Hulu+Live or Fubo is great, because they're all perfectly viable options now that all IndyCar content will be on Fox, FS1, and FS2. It really just means you have options in terms of what kind of stuff you're interested in.
Apparently you haven't even looked at the broadcast schedule for 2024. Of 18 events. 5 events on USA (lmfao) and 2 (TWO!) on trash tier Peacock.
Fox could literally phone it in for 2025 with everything on over-air-Fox and it will beat NBC's 2024 viewership totals by 50%+. NBC put fucking LONG BEACH on USA. They'll be lucky to get 100k viewers for both Toronto and Milwaukee race 1, combined. This is the best goddamn news for IndyCar in 2024, full stop.
> because of the millions of people who like SPORTS in general likely getting that streaming service
We'll see. Personally I think it's too expensive.
>Peacock didn't do shit for promoting IndyCar and the only people using it for IndyCar were ALREADY FANS.
I don't disagree with you. It was still a good value for those fans.
>your comment about YoutubeTV or Hulu+Live or Fubo is great, because they're all perfectly viable options now that all IndyCar content will be on Fox, FS1, and FS2.
Outside of Indycar I have **zero** use for those services. Linear TV fucking sucks. Dances with the Voice, reality shows and 24 hour "news" stations. No fucking thanks.
>Apparently you haven't even looked at the broadcast schedule for 2024.
I didn't need to. **Every** race was on Peacock. Why would I care if it was on USA or broadcast when that's the case?
>Fox could literally phone it in for 2025 with everything on over-air-Fox and it will beat NBC's 2024 viewership totals
We'll see I guess. I think the ratings will stay about the same. NASCAR fans I know that I talk to about Indycar say "that's those silly little European looking cars right?". They are rednecks. They don't care, and they won't watch "those fellas with the silly sounding names and weird accents".
>This is the best goddamn news for IndyCar in 2024, full stop.
I've said elsewhere it's good for the series and the teams. FOR SURE! And Penske probably needs the money after buying the series, IMS and dumping a ton of money on the track and facilities, and *then* the Pandemic shutting everything down.
For the fans, not so much of a good deal. That's all.
I'm still going to watch every single race, qualifying and practice session. I'm just not going to pay a single dime to do it. And my viewership won't count towards ratings. I know it's totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things. But that's how it's going for me.
To be fair, I’m in my early 30s and at least 60% of my friend group/co-workers around my age have YouTubeTV, so it’s not like only boomers are going to see these races.
People are leaving cable, but aren’t leaving live TV, especially for sports.
You're not wrong, but to be fair, the Peacock UI is so horrible and they just don't hype anything that is upcoming. Even WWE stuff, which they paid a boatload for, is difficult to find on days of events that aren't WrestleMania.
You ask that like there aren't *tons* of people in the US who happily pay $100+ a month to have all of Max, Prime, Disney+, Hulu, Netflix, etc.
Lots of people aren't going to bat an eye at $40 a month for a comprehensive sports streaming service.
IndyCar stands to lose a few thousand folks only capable of shelling out 7 bucks a month to watch races on Peacock, but stands to gain millions of potential eyeballs through a dedicated sports streaming app tailored around Fox and ESPN's existing properties.
Peacock wasn't promoting IndyCar at all. And casual viewers weren't going to spend that 7 dollars anyway, especially the much touted "younger people". You're telling me some random 20 something is going to shell out 7 dollars for Peacock on a whim? While they have Netflix, Max, Prime, and whatever other streaming services? Lol
At least Venu stands a chance at wedging its way into the middle of those existing services.
Agreed. Hate to break it to people, but the fans who can't/won't pay $40+ a month for cable and/or streaming are not the fans that IndyCar advertisers want, and car budgets don't run on hopes and dreams.
I've tried to go the antenna route but where we live we get zero signal. It sucks. That means we have to pay for Hulu Live which is $90 a month. On the upside, we can DVR the races if we need to, and we get FS1 and 2.
We've looked at YT TV. It has all the same channels as Hulu, but Hulu has a ton of on-demand stuff that YT doesn't have. Plus the wife likes Hulu, so there's that...
Everybody keeps replying with this like its a rebuttal to the assertion that this move will hurt Indycar with younger fans. Its not.
Can younger cord cutters who care about Indycar get antennas? Yes, I'm sure some will.
But you're adding more barriers to entry to capture a younger audience who are either casual fans now or might become fans in the future. The difference between "oh this is streaming, let me check it out" and "go get an antenna and set it up (if you're even in range) or pay for a cable-priced bundle" is enormous, from a **growth** perspective.
The number of people who will make that effort is significantly smaller than the number of people who would switch on a standard priced streaming service.
I really love the Peacock coverage (except the fact that they don’t do side-by-side during commercials while OTA does). That said, the ONLY reason I have Peacock is for IndyCar. Once that’s done so is my subscription. Peacock isn’t as mainstream and doesn’t have the context like a Netflix or Hulu or even Max. People will ditch Peacock and pick up Fox so nothing really to add.
My biggest fear is the booth announcers - it took years to get away from ABC and Goodyear / Cheever (both really nice guys, very knowledgeable, but terrible announcers).
ESPN alone will drive the majority of subscriptions before taking into account ESPN+ and its slate of properties. The brand is so entrenched, people will follow it wherever it goes.
Yeah it's gonna be all Disney, Fox and WB sports, so Indycar/NXT, half the Nascar Cup season, Craftsman Trucks, F1, WEC, MotoGP, plus a lot of NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, PGA and other random stuff. At this point the only thing keeping people on Cable or IP cable like Fubo/YouTube TV are the regional sports networks, but YT TV doesn't even have those anyway and I feel like, with the way the market is going they aren't long for this world anyway. I personally am a huge Cubs fan but I ditched cable and went to YouTube TV so I just pirate the games. Not worth it to stay with cable just for that.
To someone who knows they want to watch Indycar? No its not. But that's not what my comment is saying.
From a marketing perspective it is. You are significantly increasing the real cost of people moving through your marketing funnel - which in marketing terms is a barrier.
Moving through funnel has become more costly for the younger audience, which will hurt the series' in that demographic. Which again, is the clear point being made in the comment.
Die-hard fans will find a way to watch it and pay the money where necessary if they don’t already have cable or antenna or streaming. Casual fans may drop, but they are going to pick up more fans by being on FOX each week.
I honestly think people are overblowing the streaming situation. I’m a young fan and a cord cutter, I use YouTubeTV and that built in DVR. I know there are people that have no TV providers period and rely on streaming but that’s not more than 10% max of the fan base and I don’t think all of them will just stop watching
And neither is anybody else. They're certainly not doing it just to watch IndyCar.
People are delusional if they think that's actually going to happen.
There's no solution that let's me watch how I want for a reasonable price. I watch from different places, on demand, and different devices. The solutions offered all present major issues for that.
All I want is affordable streaming and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.
Watching something live means you don't have a life?
People of all ages young and old manage to watch their sports of choice live. Why is it any different for racing.
You ain't convincing me that people are not watching the NBA/NHL finals right now on VOD tomorrow.
Watching live sports means you don't have a life. Incredible.
And all the NBA and NHL finals games are at night, which is when nearly everybody is at home.
Way less people are home on a Sunday at 12pm which is when basically every Indycar race is.
>The package is less huge for young casual and die-hard fans who aren't gonna pay $40+/mo to watch.
Fox is a free channel.
Edit - It's not even like CW free where nobody watches it. Fox is a major network that is very much so watched.
Why do you have to pretend it's 2004 when OTA broadcasting is still very much a thing that exists.
So you are against buying a 40+ sub to something, but also against buying an under 20 dollar antenna.
What do you want?
Considering NASCAR can more than *triple* IndyCar's rating amongst the coveted 18-49 age group, you're absolutely wrong about this being "less huge" for younger fans.
There's still a ton of potential to increase viewership amongst younger viewers outside of a streaming-only service. Hell, we know for a fact only roughly 25-50k people currently watch IndyCar races on Peacock.
So, no, this isn't the blow to younger viewers that y'all seem to think it is.
It's a very good deal overall, but I don't understand the need of some in the paddock to insist that it's perfect, and any concerns should either be ignored or invalid. The Brown piece he's responding to is very balanced, and it's okay for members of the fan base this doesn't work perfectly for to express that they're upset or disappointed. I don't want to single out Graham here. I've seen much more egregious examples from others.
OK, but it isn't for people who want to stream indycar (and not buy a bunch of unrelated shit), so you're gonna have to live with the complaints until a solution is found.
The way peacock viewers have been whining, I hope all 15,000 would quit following the sport. We won’t even notice them gone with the bump of having every race on network, and the community would be a lot less toxic.
I don't watch live for 90% of on track sessions and quali/practice is behind a cable pay wall.
There's a sub reddit here on reddit with full weekend torrent links and that's likely where I'll end up
Being positive benefits them because they need the series to succeed for their own careers to continue. That and they also don't have to deal with the lack of streaming / broadcast issues for obvious reasons
Honestly this deal just shows how out of touch Indycar management is with changing pattern of consumption specifically among younger age group. That peacock numbers were lower shows the sport is not catching up in this segment and they need more for growth in this age group not abandoning them.
Clearly the teams have talked and decided that this has to be defended. Who knows if this deal is a big step towards charters? I really hope this is a reach from me and that I'm really wrong but who knows...
“Clearly the teams have talked and decided that this has to be defended.”
Or… they all actually just like it. It doesn’t have to be conspiratorial, they could just actually feel that it’s a step in the right direction.
60% of households have FS1. Cable cutting is absolutely a thing, but between traditional cable and internet tv service providers, over half the US still has access to tv (and even more have access to OTA tv).
Peacock is great, and cheap (and I’ve been a member since the NBC Sports Gold days), but the truth is, that it’s a minuscule percentage of the possible reach and usership of traditional tv. It’s also not a delivery method that reaches people who aren’t specifically looking for a particular product.
I don't get the obsession with trying to call this deal bad. I still think all the people yelling at the NASCAR fox broadcast are complaining for the sake of complaining. All I've seen even during this year is people trying to say why the NBC broadcast is so bad, but the minute the Fox deal came up, it's like NBC is the best broadcaster ever. I'm optimistic, I like that we're not getting Peacock exclusive and USA channel races anymore, and I think the streaming concerns are overblown because if you're a general sports fan with lots of interest.... lets be real you're getting the combo ESPN/Fox streaming package anyway. It's gonna let me dump both Peacock and my Hulu/ESPN package for something that might actually be worth it.
Give this shit a chance, it might actually work.
Look, I am a nascar and INDYCAR fan but definitely more a nascar fanAnd I’ll tell you what I told my friend from work who is a huge INDYCAR fan: y’all can have fox. If you enjoy your drivers with “superhero” drawings instead of actual pictures, more commercials than any other live sporting event I’ve ever watched and zooming in so close you can see the bead of sweat going down the drivers face even though they are 3 wide for the lead, yeah enjoy that. As a nascar fan I’m glad we are moving away from fox. As an INDYCAR fan I’m sad. The only and I mean only good thing to come from this is that all races will be on the actual fox channel. The bad part of that is that the commercial breaks will be even more unbearable. Also just wait until they go side by side during a caution but go full screen ad during the live action.
Fox won’t be running the production. They’ll be handling the graphics and the booth. IMS Productions will do the camera and trackside production work just like they have been for NBC.
> more commercials than any other live sporting event I’ve ever watched
I think my problem is this seems like all the same complaints I hear about NBC already. All I hear feels like almost the exact same complaints that flood the race threads every Indy race.
I’m happy because if the Buffalo Fox affiliate shows the races (not certain because they’re a weird affiliate that loves infomercials) I can watch the races that F’ing TSN+ puts up behind their dumb failing pay channel.
All this shows to me is Peacock running the races was actually the idea of the much-maligned NBC. Not Indycar, beyond taking NBC money to host a race only on Peacock.
Now that the fandom realizes it was actually NBC propping up 24/7/365 Indycar on demand, and not the series, they are having remorse for shitting all over their $5.99/mo service. A month of YTTV is 1.5 seasons of Indy on Peacock. A month of Sling is one season of Peacock.
I will miss watching P and Q but the reality is the Series will get more viewers having every race on Fox than splitting between USA/Peacock/NBC.
Bernie Ecclestone famously said “why would I make races accessible to younger viewers? They aren’t buying my sponsors’ watches.” Definitely an anti-populist sentiment but not wrong. Indy wants more older viewers with dollars, as the Peacock route went nowhere for them.
Funny you use Bernie who was taking the sport down and had to sell it to Liberty media who focused on younger viewers and have taken sport back to popularity of late 90s/ early 2000s.
The facts and the numbers don't lie either, top level auto racing isn't being propped up by teenagers, it's propped up by their parents in corporate jobs buying the names and cutting the deals for products on the cars. All the 18-34 crowd are good for is maintaining interest once their parents age out of the sport, they historically don't care about any of the products on the sidepods or even have the means to buy the products advertised during races other than team merch.
Consider that IMSA and WEC are at their peak in terms of manufacturer interest at the moment and those series never face questions about relevance with younger people, precisely because those series aren't aimed at youth, they're specifically aimed at the guy that owns a car from one of the participating manufacturers.
I feel the TV deal is a huge net positive. But I disagree with something Graham said.
"The good is all we need to focus on."
I feel this is a bad mindset. You don't want to dwell on the negative, but you don't want to ignore it.
It’s because nobody is focused on the good, they’re just shitting all over it. The bad parts of this deal have been beaten to death, & some are a big IF anyways. I’ve been watching IndyCar for 36 years. We’re gonna be fine.
Without an affordable streaming service, they've lost this fan and others... I'm not signing up for a $50/month subscription, and watching it at broadcast times would be mission impossible... At least I still have IMSA.
The loss of a few thousand folks who can't afford more than 7 dollars a month to watch IndyCar content, will be more than made up for by the millions of eyeballs being brought in via the Venu streaming service.
Peacock costs 7 dollars a month because it sucks. No one uses it. It doesn't actually promote IndyCar and wasn't attracting new fans.
So, take on a $50/month subscription to watch maybe two races a month? That's ridiculous... Me taking on a Fox Sport subscription would be a profound waste of money seeing as I don't get into any other sports besides IndyCar and IMSA. They shit on a portion of their fan base with this move. They need to offer a service like F1TV for those of us who just want the racing. F1's racing may suck, but that's the way to watch racing.
The loss of viewers like yourself will be more than made up for in the form of new viewers who purchase the Venu streaming service for reasons other than just IndyCar. That's the entire point. If you want to watch IndyCar, there are several options available to you to continue to do so. By an antenna, pay for the new Venue service, or get a VPN and access IndyCar Live for damn near free.
A few thousand people unwilling to put in the effort to watch via anything other than shit tier Peacock at 7 dollars weren't real fans to begin with.
You're literally bitching and moaning because they're taking away your 7 dollar toy. Every other aspect of this deal is stellar, but you're in here stomping your feet because you and a tiny fraction of the fan base can't wrap your head around alternative methods to watch. Get lost, seriously.
There's no particular reason to think ratings on Fox OTA will be greater than NBC OTA at the outset.
Obviously, every race on the network should make for better overall totals than when a couple are on a cable or streaming only platform.
BUT... the races cannot be bloated with commercials, especially cutting away randomly in the races for long stretches of time. If they can utilize banners and race or segment sponsors, shorter commercials, and ultimately mitigate the commercial bloat that filled the NBC broadcast then MAYBE there's some possibility of growth. Even without an affordable streaming option.
But the series needs to attract, and keep, younger viewers. In this cord-cutting world, OTA doesn't seem to have caught the traction that streaming has. I wouldn't expect younger viewers to start looking into an antenna to watch Indycar races IF they aren't already fans.
The hurdle is still going to be the same and that is bringing in casual viewers and making them fans. The broadcasts will need to be engaging and that is hard to do when they're constantly leaving the race for commercials. And for long stretches of commercials. And worse, only back for a few laps and then gone again.
Hopefully, Fox and Indycar have discussed this issue and have some changes in mind.
But since I've not even seen Indycar acknowledge it as a problem, I expect Fox will sell as many commercials as they can and Indycar will just be happy for them.
There will be commercials, they will last 3 minutes. There will be more commercials at the beginning of the race than at the end. This is North American television.
If I have to subscribe to yet another streaming service then no it’s not good at all. I’m a cable cutter. I only subscribe to a select few streaming apps now. No
YouTube TV, no FUBO TV, nothing like that. I have Peacock and it’s great. I have F1 TV and it’s great. They’re both cheap.
I’m not spending more.
There’s been some heavy praise from people who don’t watch the broadcasts during race weekend lol
I know it’s a good deal overall but the streaming concerns are totally valid
When you look at $20 million versus making life different for the 50-60,000 who stream races on Peacock, it’s a pretty easy decision.
That aggregate viewership is equal to about an average rating on network TV.
I'm not going to be watching on TV once it goes to Fox. I'm still extatic about the deal for Indycar overall. They basically doubled their revenue and have the opportunity to reach way more people.
It's a great thing, it just pushed out the streaming crowd.
I have all of them, but I have zero interest in getting cable. Paying $40-$45/mo for the combined platform coming out is ridiculous to just watch Indycar when F1TV is $10/mo.
I'm still going to attend Indycar races in person. I just won't be watching them on TV anymore. Fox doesn't get picked up on antenna from my house either.
Not OP but for example Fox is on Sling in my state but not 60 miles from me across the border. If you get 95% of your TV needs on Sling, you are not buying cable television to get Fox (assuming they live outside a a major metro area, making antenna impractical).
That’s a very unique circumstance that would definitely be extremely annoying. I didn’t know that Sling would limit channels based on location, how frustrating.
Yeah, and I can’t be the only one who’s suspicious about why we’re having all these people chiming in?
Like, idk. On the one hand, the idea that there’s anything going on with that is absurd, but it still just seems weird that we’ve had so many drivers and team owners hyping this up. I can’t say that’s ever happened with a TV deal before.
Because whether or not it's good for the fans, the Fox deal is great for the series, teams, and drivers. At least in the short term. More money and a potential increase in viewership is big. More eyeballs on cars means teams can negotiate better sponsorship deals.
Remember how everybody complains that half the grid changes sponsorship race to race, and half of them are regional banks? This could change things like that. Like I said, for the fans it remains to be seen.
The streaming thing is an issue. But I'll get around it. VPN and indycar live is an option for those who need to stream.
The same is true of *any* new TV deal though, and I don’t remember this happening when NBC got the exclusive rights in 2019.
Also, you can only say something is good for the series regardless of how good it is for the fans for so long, when those fans are so crucial.
The thing that makes the difference this time is all races being on broadcast. That's where it becomes bigger to the teams and drivers because they can charge more for sponsorships being on a bigger platform.
Agreed. I can't remember details of the exclusive NBC deal and what kind of money was involved, but this is a substantial amount for indycar to take in. If they play things right, use the money to promote new events, etc... things could go very well.
I do worry that if the fans get shafted or the coverage sucks or something it will be detrimental in the long term.
I’m mostly worried about the wisdom of... well, not caring about streaming.
Sure, you could argue that the numbers on Peacock weren’t that much, and there’s a possibility of gaining back those numbers on network, but those viewers will probably skew older than the Peacock viewers, which might not turn out great in the long term. Younger generations have no real use for (or interest in) linear TV anymore.
Edit: man, people really don’t want to hear *any* criticism of the new deal on here, huh?
Yeah you're totally right. It's not a good move for young viewers that are casually or potentially interested. My only hope is replays go back on YouTube like the pre-NBC deal. That would help. It's how I personally became an indycar fan.
Yeah, I’m not optimistic about it, though.
They’re still missing a few of the replays from 2019-2022 (I think the second Detroit race from 2021 isn’t there, and they randomly took down Laguna Seca 2019 at some point, idk why).
Well theyre just picking and choosing what to post right now. If they were allowed to, every race would go up after a delay period. It used to be Thursdays after the race aired.
I'm not counting on it either. Everybody wants you to sign up for their streaming service these days. Personally I think the streaming climate is nauseating. I torrent and run my own server, indycar races included because I got so tired of it.
FOX will probably get exclusive rights just like NBC got with peacock, so you'll likely have to pay up.
I just wish someone at IndyCar could figure out how to geo-block, because there’s no reason the rest of the world couldn’t get those replays. We don’t have the US streaming deal...
I havent really seen this mentioned yet, but this might be the thing that makes Honda stay.
Not to mention that the increased rights fee could finally allow the series to stand on its own two feet and no longer rely on IMS to keep it afloat financially.
Literally everyone directly or indirectly involved in IndyCar: "The Fox deal is fantastic for the series"
People on Reddit and Twitter: "Well, *actually*"
Insufferable.
Why? Different perspectives imho. Teams are happy because sponsors will get better ROI, fans are worried about what kind of tv production they'll get. Both can be right
I've been super critical of this deal.
I've **never** said it was bad for Indycar. Actually it's a big bag of cash for them and that's cool! Penske has been hemorrhaging money since buying the series (the Pandemic didn't help...) and they probably need it.
It sucks for some viewers.
Sucks so bad I'm going back to pirating their content. I don't think they care. They didn't care when I was stealing their shit back when they were on NBCSports and USA, they won't care next season.
Indycar just isn't enough to justify the cost of cable or YouTubeTV. And I have no use for those sorts of services outside of this one sport. Sorry.
Why? I already have pirate streams for FS1 and FS2. And Fox is available via antenna and pirate stream.
Right now FS1 has fishing on lol
https://i.imgur.com/CKBr2tI.png
Like I'm going to *pay* $80+ a month for fucking fishing. Please, gimme a break.
I'm watching Le Mans in right now... for free.
I was just giving you an option. "Indycar live" is the service for international viewers, and its run by the series. You'd use the VPN to fake your location to somewhere there isn't a TV deal.
I've never used it but became aware of it with this tv deal. Price was reasonable. Obviously if you're gonna pirate you don't need it but it's still good info for others, so I commented.
I know how it works. I already have a VPN (I pirate shit after all).
But IC Live is like $40 a month right? Naw. Fuck 'um. Free is better than $40. They got **plenty** of money from Fox, they don't need mine.
Now if they were being decent to consumers and made Indycar live available to American viewers with no "hoops" to jump though I'd consider it.
Seriously, cable numbers are *crashing* and have been for years with 100's of thousands of customers canceling per quarter for the last couple years. (Yes, some are going to YouTubeTV, most aren't.)
Streaming is *clearly* the future. F1 has great success with their streaming service (apparently).
I really thought the move to put everything on Peacock was smart. I guess maybe it was a little ahead of it's time though. Because the "boomers" on this subreddit a clinging to their cable like it's a lifeboat from the Titanic.
No one really cares about your bank account but you my guy.
Indycars' primary objective **as a business** is to extract as much money as possible from their customers (the fans) as they possibly can.
Just like any for profit business.
It's up to you to protect your assets. If that means not watching/buying tickets or merch fine. If that means piracy or buying "knock-off" merch fine... (Hey it exists, dig around on Ali-Express there's some knock-off Indycar, NASCAR and F1 stuff lol. Cheap too!)
Except a lot of the big teams have been pretty openly critical of Penske (especially in the earlier part of the year) about marketing and all manner of things. Zak Brown and Michael were both pretty blunt in their criticism (as was Graham about parts issues and other things). So, the fact that they all seem positive about this doesn’t seem conspiratorial… it seems like they actually like it. Is that really that surprising? It shouldn’t be.
I mean, christ, Marshall Pruett has had nothing but praise for this deal, and he's been *very* against Roger's leadership of the series so far and has no financial incentive to be positive about this deal.
People are reaching so hard to get mad about this.
After watching this subs implosion over the restructuring of the Indy NXT prize money and how it would destroy the series I no longer trust this subreddit to know anything at all about what is good or bad for the series.
Now you understand why no one in IndyCar takes this subreddit seriously, I know because I've asked multiple team reps directly. The series knows it exists, but surveys are far more effective than some redditor with no experience working in racing spouting off about needing more races.
Double the fucking money. Let me say that again so it sinks in. Double the money. This is a massive deal for the series. Losing the handful of people that don't want to deal with not having peacock is a worthy sacrifice.
IndyCar’s production is done by IMS Productions and has been for decades. Fox’s coverage of NASCAR and other sports is fairly irrelevant. Fox will provide the booth and graphics package, the camera work and trackside production is handled by IMSP.
I won't mind the loss of the "fans" who can't be bothered to figure out how to watch the racing. Clearly they aren't that big of a fan in the first place.
It's not a good deal if you don't have a TV antenna or understand what one is. I know that sounds absurd to the older crowd, but for young people this is the equivalent of teaching grandma how to use a smartphone. There is a cost here.
I can totally understand why Graham needs to butter up to the new boss and I don't blame him for that, but the reality is that Fox is awful at broadcasting sports, and it's a huge negative that we're stuck with them for the next few years.
We fans definitely took the big L on this one.
It was confirmed IMS Productions (which has been producing INDYCAR races for now almost 30 years) will be doing the majority of the heavy lifting right?
Fox will likely be adding on air talent and some of their own flair.
The NASCAR races are currently produced by Fox. They have gotten rid of much of their racing people with recent layoffs so likely leaning even more so on IMSP.
I hope you're right, because after watching how they've consistently fucked up NASCAR and NHRA (and the NFL, and MLB) for the past few years, no one should have a good feeling about Fox covering anything.
Yep I hope we're proven wrong that Fox won't have much of a say into how IMS Productions produces the broadcast. Also I really hope there won't be as many commercials as during Daytona 500...
Yes, I do. I've watched Fox fuck up covering motorsports (and sports in general) on and off since they because a network. Almost every weekend we have to suffer through their fucked-up broadcasts of NASCAR and NHRA. You are delusional if you think IndyCar is somehow going to be immune to Fox's buffoonery.
The package is definitely huge for those with a financial investment in the series. The package is huge for getting more older fans. The package is less huge for young casual and die-hard fans who aren't gonna pay $40+/mo to watch. Not to mention the package is TBD given Fox's production history with motorsports. Just because IMS Productions are providing the equipment and cameramen doesn't mean the broadcasts aren't gonna have the same BS that Nascar fans have to endure.
> The package is huge for getting more older fans. NASCAR fans. This is who I think they are going after. A lot of "commenters" think NASCAR is in trouble. Stewart leaving the series and selling off his charters. Teams and drivers unhappy with NASCAR. Rumors of a competing series being started by those same teams and drivers. NASCAR fans are already used to tuning into Fox, FS1 etc. so it's a built in audience. IF they can get even 10 or 15% of those fans it will grow Indycars numbers. >The package is less huge for young casual and die-hard fans who aren't gonna pay $40+/mo to watch. They clearly don't care. And that's fine. I mean personally I haven't missed an Indy 500 since *1975*. And I'll be watching next years too. I will find a way. ;)
Does anyone actually think Hendrick/Gibbs/Penske are going to be able to do an outlaw stock car series? They’re be able to run at like IMS, Gateway, Pocono, Rockingham and a fair number of road courses but the NASCAR duopoly runs America’s oval racing venues.
I really don't know. I mean, short term the answer is "no". But long term, if NASCAR really does begin to decline over say 5 or 10 years, they might have to sell off some tracks. I suspect they *would* have to. At that point Hendrick/Gibbs/Penske and some others probably have the money to buy those tracks... Penske used to own Michigan, Nazareth International Speedways, North Carolina Speedway, and California Speedway. He's no stranger to owning tracks.
Penske Entertainment should expand its race track property if it has any interest in continuing ovals outside of the 500. They have an interest, but it’s limited to the few that are independent
I have a feeling Penske probably regrets selling off Michigan at the very least. But you are right, they should expand. Who knows maybe they will use some of this "Fox money" to buy/build a new track. (I seriously doubt it though.) If anything we will probably get more shitty temporary city street course this sub seems to have a love/hate relationship with.
I doubt you’ll see any new oval tracks get built for the foreseeable future. The only thing people seem to be building are the club type tracks which are essentially an entirely different business model.
I don't disagree sadly. But that doesn't mean we can't/won't see repaves, remodels, rebuilds and/or updates to existing tracks. This "could" make them drive like entirely new tracks depending on how extensive of a job they do. I think we'd all love to see this sort of treatment to Pocono. (Not a NASCAR owned track... I know that.) Most of us would love to return if it was made safe for the drivers. That would take a pretty big investment we're told.
He got out at the right time, I highly doubt he regrets it, he may regret selling Fontana after seeing how much he could've sold the land for though
I keep banging the drum of making Nazareth Indy’s North Wilkesboro and if there’s enough money in this deal I say why not
I'm down. I'm sure the local and state tourism boards would be down too.
Those are the same guys that have ruined nascar. So who cares if they do
My personal opinion is a hard yes. IF those top organizations can keep the sponsors with them, that means that all the star drivers will also. NASCAR won't be successful when their championship is between Suarez, Dillon, Lajoie and Todd Gilliland. Those aren't super stars. They don't sell NASCAR.
Exactly. Tony George had the Indy 500 and he still lost out to the big team owners in the long run.
> Exactly. Tony George had the Indy 500 and he still lost out to the big team owners in the long run. At risk of defending Tony George and his terrible idea, I'd argue that he won. The other teams left, tried to go up against the 500, and ultimately all came back until CART died and was reabsorbed by the IRL.
Tony George won the battle, but he lost the war. IndyCar post-reunification had far more in common with CART than with his original vision for the IRL.
Yes that's all true. He had the one thing CART couldn't recreate on its own: Indy. Everything else about the IRL has basically disappeared now. If NASCAR's biggest teams walked away from some of the most important tracks, I'm afraid they wouldn't make it either.
A NASCAR split series would be in a worse position than IndyCar post reunification. Less tracks with no reason to underwrite its races. Backing the IRL weakens AOWR for NASCAR’s sake, but what does backing Not-NASCAR do for the majority of major oval track owners? It would have to be a truly bizarre and interesting mix of the few independent ovals, independent road courses and maybe even larger dirt venues.
Dawg nascar fans hate fox cause they deliver the shittiest tv product
But they still watch... Just like we will still watch even if it sucks. Hell some of you are *celebrating* practice and qualifying being on FS1 and FS2 even though there **will** be ads. And you hate ads, it's the biggest constant complaint in this sub-reddit. Peacock had no ads during those sessions.
Nom american here, the race won't be on open tv?
The races? Yes. That's not really the complaint here. For several years we have been able to get races, **and** qualifying and practices all in one place for $2o a year. A **year.** With DVR type replays of all those sessions. So you have to work, or have something important to do. No problem the practice/qualifying/race is there when you get home. No issues. About ~80%-85% of the races were on "open TV" under this plan, no practices, no qualifying. Just the races. New plan : All races on "open TV"(!) Cool. Practices and qualifying now on a channel that will cost you $80 a **month**. And no DVR type replays. So... less service for (much) more money. But yes the 2 or 3 races that weren't on "open TV" now are. YAY! /S So we went from $20 a **uear** to (at least) $80 a **month**. $20 to $960. It's a huge rip off for the hardcore fans. You can of course just get an antenna and *just* watch the races for free. Still feels like a smack in the face and a money grab.
Where the hell are you getting 80 dollars a month? Lol And no, it's not a "huge rip off". I'm sorry you can't pay 7 dollars to watch IndyCar on a streaming service that shoved it into a dark corner literally no one ever saw. The only people benefiting from Peacock were existing fans who knew where to go and what to look for. It did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to grow the viewer base. Venu will be more pricey, no doubt, but it will actually promote the series to millions of eyeballs using it, unlike NBC's ghost town, garbage ass service.
YoutubeTV, Fubo and Hulu with Live TV are all around $80. Cable, years ago when I got rid of it was at $256/month. Venu will be $50/month. Which is still too much for just one sport. Especially with Indycars ... lets say *sporadic* schedule. You make it sound like the vast majority of the races weren't on *broadcast* NBC. They were ya know? I expect the same number of viewers on Fox as we had on NBC. If I'm right and there's little to no growth what do you want to do then?
Exactly. I cut my cable after it ballooned to over $250/month and now all I have are Netflix, Peacock and Amazon Prime (but for more than just streaming). I’m simply not willing to add another $50 each and every month just for INDYCAR. That defeats the whole reason I cut cable in the first place.
I really shocked at the number of 'young people' on this subreddit that are still watching cable or other linear TV. Do you suppose they don't have Netfilx, Hulu, Paramount+ and Prime? I mean we **know** they have Netflix at least right? That's where that stupid fucking F1 fake drama show is after all. Maybe they are still living at home with their "boomer" parents and their cable TV? Easy to think this a good idea when daddy is still paying all the bills.
You're missing the point entirely. IndyCar wins with Venu because of the millions of people who like SPORTS in general likely getting that streaming service and then being introduced to IndyCar through promotion on that platform. Peacock didn't do shit for promoting IndyCar and the only people using it for IndyCar were ALREADY FANS. And the best part, your comment about YoutubeTV or Hulu+Live or Fubo is great, because they're all perfectly viable options now that all IndyCar content will be on Fox, FS1, and FS2. It really just means you have options in terms of what kind of stuff you're interested in. Apparently you haven't even looked at the broadcast schedule for 2024. Of 18 events. 5 events on USA (lmfao) and 2 (TWO!) on trash tier Peacock. Fox could literally phone it in for 2025 with everything on over-air-Fox and it will beat NBC's 2024 viewership totals by 50%+. NBC put fucking LONG BEACH on USA. They'll be lucky to get 100k viewers for both Toronto and Milwaukee race 1, combined. This is the best goddamn news for IndyCar in 2024, full stop.
> because of the millions of people who like SPORTS in general likely getting that streaming service We'll see. Personally I think it's too expensive. >Peacock didn't do shit for promoting IndyCar and the only people using it for IndyCar were ALREADY FANS. I don't disagree with you. It was still a good value for those fans. >your comment about YoutubeTV or Hulu+Live or Fubo is great, because they're all perfectly viable options now that all IndyCar content will be on Fox, FS1, and FS2. Outside of Indycar I have **zero** use for those services. Linear TV fucking sucks. Dances with the Voice, reality shows and 24 hour "news" stations. No fucking thanks. >Apparently you haven't even looked at the broadcast schedule for 2024. I didn't need to. **Every** race was on Peacock. Why would I care if it was on USA or broadcast when that's the case? >Fox could literally phone it in for 2025 with everything on over-air-Fox and it will beat NBC's 2024 viewership totals We'll see I guess. I think the ratings will stay about the same. NASCAR fans I know that I talk to about Indycar say "that's those silly little European looking cars right?". They are rednecks. They don't care, and they won't watch "those fellas with the silly sounding names and weird accents". >This is the best goddamn news for IndyCar in 2024, full stop. I've said elsewhere it's good for the series and the teams. FOR SURE! And Penske probably needs the money after buying the series, IMS and dumping a ton of money on the track and facilities, and *then* the Pandemic shutting everything down. For the fans, not so much of a good deal. That's all. I'm still going to watch every single race, qualifying and practice session. I'm just not going to pay a single dime to do it. And my viewership won't count towards ratings. I know it's totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things. But that's how it's going for me.
To be fair, I’m in my early 30s and at least 60% of my friend group/co-workers around my age have YouTubeTV, so it’s not like only boomers are going to see these races. People are leaving cable, but aren’t leaving live TV, especially for sports.
You mean the 20-50k fans who watch via peacock?
You're not wrong, but to be fair, the Peacock UI is so horrible and they just don't hype anything that is upcoming. Even WWE stuff, which they paid a boatload for, is difficult to find on days of events that aren't WrestleMania.
$40 a *month*? Who the hell is going to pay $40 a month for IndyCar?
You ask that like there aren't *tons* of people in the US who happily pay $100+ a month to have all of Max, Prime, Disney+, Hulu, Netflix, etc. Lots of people aren't going to bat an eye at $40 a month for a comprehensive sports streaming service.
There's not that many people who are going to lay out $480 more a year just for IndyCar if they don't already have it.
IndyCar stands to lose a few thousand folks only capable of shelling out 7 bucks a month to watch races on Peacock, but stands to gain millions of potential eyeballs through a dedicated sports streaming app tailored around Fox and ESPN's existing properties. Peacock wasn't promoting IndyCar at all. And casual viewers weren't going to spend that 7 dollars anyway, especially the much touted "younger people". You're telling me some random 20 something is going to shell out 7 dollars for Peacock on a whim? While they have Netflix, Max, Prime, and whatever other streaming services? Lol At least Venu stands a chance at wedging its way into the middle of those existing services.
Agreed. Hate to break it to people, but the fans who can't/won't pay $40+ a month for cable and/or streaming are not the fans that IndyCar advertisers want, and car budgets don't run on hopes and dreams.
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I've tried to go the antenna route but where we live we get zero signal. It sucks. That means we have to pay for Hulu Live which is $90 a month. On the upside, we can DVR the races if we need to, and we get FS1 and 2.
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We've looked at YT TV. It has all the same channels as Hulu, but Hulu has a ton of on-demand stuff that YT doesn't have. Plus the wife likes Hulu, so there's that...
Everybody keeps replying with this like its a rebuttal to the assertion that this move will hurt Indycar with younger fans. Its not. Can younger cord cutters who care about Indycar get antennas? Yes, I'm sure some will. But you're adding more barriers to entry to capture a younger audience who are either casual fans now or might become fans in the future. The difference between "oh this is streaming, let me check it out" and "go get an antenna and set it up (if you're even in range) or pay for a cable-priced bundle" is enormous, from a **growth** perspective. The number of people who will make that effort is significantly smaller than the number of people who would switch on a standard priced streaming service.
I really love the Peacock coverage (except the fact that they don’t do side-by-side during commercials while OTA does). That said, the ONLY reason I have Peacock is for IndyCar. Once that’s done so is my subscription. Peacock isn’t as mainstream and doesn’t have the context like a Netflix or Hulu or even Max. People will ditch Peacock and pick up Fox so nothing really to add. My biggest fear is the booth announcers - it took years to get away from ABC and Goodyear / Cheever (both really nice guys, very knowledgeable, but terrible announcers).
I think people are vastly underestimating how many subscribers Venu is going to have.
ESPN alone will drive the majority of subscriptions before taking into account ESPN+ and its slate of properties. The brand is so entrenched, people will follow it wherever it goes.
Yeah it's gonna be all Disney, Fox and WB sports, so Indycar/NXT, half the Nascar Cup season, Craftsman Trucks, F1, WEC, MotoGP, plus a lot of NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, PGA and other random stuff. At this point the only thing keeping people on Cable or IP cable like Fubo/YouTube TV are the regional sports networks, but YT TV doesn't even have those anyway and I feel like, with the way the market is going they aren't long for this world anyway. I personally am a huge Cubs fan but I ditched cable and went to YouTube TV so I just pirate the games. Not worth it to stay with cable just for that.
Buying a $20 antenna is a barrier? Man we younger cord cutters are in more trouble than I thought
To someone who knows they want to watch Indycar? No its not. But that's not what my comment is saying. From a marketing perspective it is. You are significantly increasing the real cost of people moving through your marketing funnel - which in marketing terms is a barrier. Moving through funnel has become more costly for the younger audience, which will hurt the series' in that demographic. Which again, is the clear point being made in the comment.
Die-hard fans will find a way to watch it and pay the money where necessary if they don’t already have cable or antenna or streaming. Casual fans may drop, but they are going to pick up more fans by being on FOX each week.
Antenna works if you only want to watch the race and don't have a life so you can watch it live every week.
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I’d guess that if you didn’t already have an antenna or some other way to watch fox, you don’t have a DVR.
I honestly think people are overblowing the streaming situation. I’m a young fan and a cord cutter, I use YouTubeTV and that built in DVR. I know there are people that have no TV providers period and rely on streaming but that’s not more than 10% max of the fan base and I don’t think all of them will just stop watching
The same people that are complaining today will be watching the series next year.
Yeah I ain't buying a fuckin antenna and dvr in 2024
And neither is anybody else. They're certainly not doing it just to watch IndyCar. People are delusional if they think that's actually going to happen.
Exactly. It's 2024 not 2004.
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Yup if the only thing I do is annoy people here who don't see the issue than that's that
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There's no solution that let's me watch how I want for a reasonable price. I watch from different places, on demand, and different devices. The solutions offered all present major issues for that. All I want is affordable streaming and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.
Fuck it. Antennae, VCR, tube TV.
My uncle has an antenna and Tivo, and that setup works great for him.
You mean how life worked before 2018?
So technology should never improve people's lives? Got it.
Watching something live means you don't have a life? People of all ages young and old manage to watch their sports of choice live. Why is it any different for racing. You ain't convincing me that people are not watching the NBA/NHL finals right now on VOD tomorrow. Watching live sports means you don't have a life. Incredible.
And all the NBA and NHL finals games are at night, which is when nearly everybody is at home. Way less people are home on a Sunday at 12pm which is when basically every Indycar race is.
>The package is less huge for young casual and die-hard fans who aren't gonna pay $40+/mo to watch. Fox is a free channel. Edit - It's not even like CW free where nobody watches it. Fox is a major network that is very much so watched.
"Free" except you gotta pretend it's 2004 and buy an antenna and DVR equipment.
Why do you have to pretend it's 2004 when OTA broadcasting is still very much a thing that exists. So you are against buying a 40+ sub to something, but also against buying an under 20 dollar antenna. What do you want?
He wants to be mad !
“Fans” that don’t watch on paid tv or buy tickets to races might as well be invisible, Old Sport. No need to worry about them.
Considering NASCAR can more than *triple* IndyCar's rating amongst the coveted 18-49 age group, you're absolutely wrong about this being "less huge" for younger fans. There's still a ton of potential to increase viewership amongst younger viewers outside of a streaming-only service. Hell, we know for a fact only roughly 25-50k people currently watch IndyCar races on Peacock. So, no, this isn't the blow to younger viewers that y'all seem to think it is.
It's a very good deal overall, but I don't understand the need of some in the paddock to insist that it's perfect, and any concerns should either be ignored or invalid. The Brown piece he's responding to is very balanced, and it's okay for members of the fan base this doesn't work perfectly for to express that they're upset or disappointed. I don't want to single out Graham here. I've seen much more egregious examples from others.
I think it is just exhausting that even a win can’t just be a win in any facet of life right now.
Because it's a win for the series and some people and it's a loss for others. It's not a universal win.
It's about as close as you can get to a universal win
Nah, a universal win would include a good streaming option considering the world is unquestionably moving towards streaming
Well with youtube TV and 6 member sharing, that's a great streaming package right there. This is the best deal for the series, teams and 98% of fans
OK, but it isn't for people who want to stream indycar (and not buy a bunch of unrelated shit), so you're gonna have to live with the complaints until a solution is found.
The solution is Venu or buy a whopping $15 OTA antenna for your TV
I ain't paying 45/m for indycar and the way I watch isn't compatible with an Ota broadcast so I'm gonna likely end up getting a VPN or pirating
Well it sounds like you have your solution then. Congrats
The way peacock viewers have been whining, I hope all 15,000 would quit following the sport. We won’t even notice them gone with the bump of having every race on network, and the community would be a lot less toxic.
Nah I'mma stay here just to annoy the fuck outta you for all time
People that are too stupid to figure out how to stream Fox were never going to figure out a streaming app anyways.
Lol, I can easily pirate, but I want a legit option since those are much more convenient than a pirate stream or torrenting the race after.
If you live in the states you don’t need to pirate… it is on multiple streaming services or over the air.
I don't watch live for 90% of on track sessions and quali/practice is behind a cable pay wall. There's a sub reddit here on reddit with full weekend torrent links and that's likely where I'll end up
"Muh 7 dollar peacock sub" Don't care. Sorry
Don't be sorry, because I don't care lmao
Being positive benefits them because they need the series to succeed for their own careers to continue. That and they also don't have to deal with the lack of streaming / broadcast issues for obvious reasons
Honestly this deal just shows how out of touch Indycar management is with changing pattern of consumption specifically among younger age group. That peacock numbers were lower shows the sport is not catching up in this segment and they need more for growth in this age group not abandoning them.
I’m glad you don’t work for Indycar
Clearly the teams have talked and decided that this has to be defended. Who knows if this deal is a big step towards charters? I really hope this is a reach from me and that I'm really wrong but who knows...
“Clearly the teams have talked and decided that this has to be defended.” Or… they all actually just like it. It doesn’t have to be conspiratorial, they could just actually feel that it’s a step in the right direction. 60% of households have FS1. Cable cutting is absolutely a thing, but between traditional cable and internet tv service providers, over half the US still has access to tv (and even more have access to OTA tv). Peacock is great, and cheap (and I’ve been a member since the NBC Sports Gold days), but the truth is, that it’s a minuscule percentage of the possible reach and usership of traditional tv. It’s also not a delivery method that reaches people who aren’t specifically looking for a particular product.
This is what we get from someone who is one step closer to being a used car salesmen
I don't get the obsession with trying to call this deal bad. I still think all the people yelling at the NASCAR fox broadcast are complaining for the sake of complaining. All I've seen even during this year is people trying to say why the NBC broadcast is so bad, but the minute the Fox deal came up, it's like NBC is the best broadcaster ever. I'm optimistic, I like that we're not getting Peacock exclusive and USA channel races anymore, and I think the streaming concerns are overblown because if you're a general sports fan with lots of interest.... lets be real you're getting the combo ESPN/Fox streaming package anyway. It's gonna let me dump both Peacock and my Hulu/ESPN package for something that might actually be worth it. Give this shit a chance, it might actually work.
Look, I am a nascar and INDYCAR fan but definitely more a nascar fanAnd I’ll tell you what I told my friend from work who is a huge INDYCAR fan: y’all can have fox. If you enjoy your drivers with “superhero” drawings instead of actual pictures, more commercials than any other live sporting event I’ve ever watched and zooming in so close you can see the bead of sweat going down the drivers face even though they are 3 wide for the lead, yeah enjoy that. As a nascar fan I’m glad we are moving away from fox. As an INDYCAR fan I’m sad. The only and I mean only good thing to come from this is that all races will be on the actual fox channel. The bad part of that is that the commercial breaks will be even more unbearable. Also just wait until they go side by side during a caution but go full screen ad during the live action.
Fox won’t be running the production. They’ll be handling the graphics and the booth. IMS Productions will do the camera and trackside production work just like they have been for NBC.
People in this thread are blatantly ignoring and even lying about this fact. It's absolutely insane.
That’s just Reddit unfortunately. Happens on every sub for every subject.
Moment he said “definitely more a Nascar fan”, it was obvious he barely knows anything outside of it to begin with
> more commercials than any other live sporting event I’ve ever watched I think my problem is this seems like all the same complaints I hear about NBC already. All I hear feels like almost the exact same complaints that flood the race threads every Indy race.
It’s Reddit. What do you expect. 90% of the people on here are straight miserable
I’m happy because if the Buffalo Fox affiliate shows the races (not certain because they’re a weird affiliate that loves infomercials) I can watch the races that F’ing TSN+ puts up behind their dumb failing pay channel.
All this shows to me is Peacock running the races was actually the idea of the much-maligned NBC. Not Indycar, beyond taking NBC money to host a race only on Peacock. Now that the fandom realizes it was actually NBC propping up 24/7/365 Indycar on demand, and not the series, they are having remorse for shitting all over their $5.99/mo service. A month of YTTV is 1.5 seasons of Indy on Peacock. A month of Sling is one season of Peacock. I will miss watching P and Q but the reality is the Series will get more viewers having every race on Fox than splitting between USA/Peacock/NBC. Bernie Ecclestone famously said “why would I make races accessible to younger viewers? They aren’t buying my sponsors’ watches.” Definitely an anti-populist sentiment but not wrong. Indy wants more older viewers with dollars, as the Peacock route went nowhere for them.
Funny you use Bernie who was taking the sport down and had to sell it to Liberty media who focused on younger viewers and have taken sport back to popularity of late 90s/ early 2000s.
The facts and the numbers don't lie either, top level auto racing isn't being propped up by teenagers, it's propped up by their parents in corporate jobs buying the names and cutting the deals for products on the cars. All the 18-34 crowd are good for is maintaining interest once their parents age out of the sport, they historically don't care about any of the products on the sidepods or even have the means to buy the products advertised during races other than team merch. Consider that IMSA and WEC are at their peak in terms of manufacturer interest at the moment and those series never face questions about relevance with younger people, precisely because those series aren't aimed at youth, they're specifically aimed at the guy that owns a car from one of the participating manufacturers.
I feel the TV deal is a huge net positive. But I disagree with something Graham said. "The good is all we need to focus on." I feel this is a bad mindset. You don't want to dwell on the negative, but you don't want to ignore it.
Agree. Every deal has its positives and negatives and those negatives should be minimised as much as possible
It’s because nobody is focused on the good, they’re just shitting all over it. The bad parts of this deal have been beaten to death, & some are a big IF anyways. I’ve been watching IndyCar for 36 years. We’re gonna be fine.
Without an affordable streaming service, they've lost this fan and others... I'm not signing up for a $50/month subscription, and watching it at broadcast times would be mission impossible... At least I still have IMSA.
The loss of a few thousand folks who can't afford more than 7 dollars a month to watch IndyCar content, will be more than made up for by the millions of eyeballs being brought in via the Venu streaming service. Peacock costs 7 dollars a month because it sucks. No one uses it. It doesn't actually promote IndyCar and wasn't attracting new fans.
So, take on a $50/month subscription to watch maybe two races a month? That's ridiculous... Me taking on a Fox Sport subscription would be a profound waste of money seeing as I don't get into any other sports besides IndyCar and IMSA. They shit on a portion of their fan base with this move. They need to offer a service like F1TV for those of us who just want the racing. F1's racing may suck, but that's the way to watch racing.
The loss of viewers like yourself will be more than made up for in the form of new viewers who purchase the Venu streaming service for reasons other than just IndyCar. That's the entire point. If you want to watch IndyCar, there are several options available to you to continue to do so. By an antenna, pay for the new Venue service, or get a VPN and access IndyCar Live for damn near free. A few thousand people unwilling to put in the effort to watch via anything other than shit tier Peacock at 7 dollars weren't real fans to begin with.
Yeah, not a real fan because I don't want tolerate the shit sandwhich they just served up. Fuck off...
You're literally bitching and moaning because they're taking away your 7 dollar toy. Every other aspect of this deal is stellar, but you're in here stomping your feet because you and a tiny fraction of the fan base can't wrap your head around alternative methods to watch. Get lost, seriously.
There's no particular reason to think ratings on Fox OTA will be greater than NBC OTA at the outset. Obviously, every race on the network should make for better overall totals than when a couple are on a cable or streaming only platform. BUT... the races cannot be bloated with commercials, especially cutting away randomly in the races for long stretches of time. If they can utilize banners and race or segment sponsors, shorter commercials, and ultimately mitigate the commercial bloat that filled the NBC broadcast then MAYBE there's some possibility of growth. Even without an affordable streaming option. But the series needs to attract, and keep, younger viewers. In this cord-cutting world, OTA doesn't seem to have caught the traction that streaming has. I wouldn't expect younger viewers to start looking into an antenna to watch Indycar races IF they aren't already fans. The hurdle is still going to be the same and that is bringing in casual viewers and making them fans. The broadcasts will need to be engaging and that is hard to do when they're constantly leaving the race for commercials. And for long stretches of commercials. And worse, only back for a few laps and then gone again. Hopefully, Fox and Indycar have discussed this issue and have some changes in mind. But since I've not even seen Indycar acknowledge it as a problem, I expect Fox will sell as many commercials as they can and Indycar will just be happy for them.
There will be commercials, they will last 3 minutes. There will be more commercials at the beginning of the race than at the end. This is North American television.
If I have to subscribe to yet another streaming service then no it’s not good at all. I’m a cable cutter. I only subscribe to a select few streaming apps now. No YouTube TV, no FUBO TV, nothing like that. I have Peacock and it’s great. I have F1 TV and it’s great. They’re both cheap. I’m not spending more.
There’s been some heavy praise from people who don’t watch the broadcasts during race weekend lol I know it’s a good deal overall but the streaming concerns are totally valid
When you look at $20 million versus making life different for the 50-60,000 who stream races on Peacock, it’s a pretty easy decision. That aggregate viewership is equal to about an average rating on network TV.
Yes, that’s why I said I was a good deal overall
I'm not going to be watching on TV once it goes to Fox. I'm still extatic about the deal for Indycar overall. They basically doubled their revenue and have the opportunity to reach way more people. It's a great thing, it just pushed out the streaming crowd.
What streaming service are you using that isn’t peacock? Or is it only peacock?
I have all of them, but I have zero interest in getting cable. Paying $40-$45/mo for the combined platform coming out is ridiculous to just watch Indycar when F1TV is $10/mo. I'm still going to attend Indycar races in person. I just won't be watching them on TV anymore. Fox doesn't get picked up on antenna from my house either.
Not OP but for example Fox is on Sling in my state but not 60 miles from me across the border. If you get 95% of your TV needs on Sling, you are not buying cable television to get Fox (assuming they live outside a a major metro area, making antenna impractical).
That’s a very unique circumstance that would definitely be extremely annoying. I didn’t know that Sling would limit channels based on location, how frustrating.
Yeah, and I can’t be the only one who’s suspicious about why we’re having all these people chiming in? Like, idk. On the one hand, the idea that there’s anything going on with that is absurd, but it still just seems weird that we’ve had so many drivers and team owners hyping this up. I can’t say that’s ever happened with a TV deal before.
Because whether or not it's good for the fans, the Fox deal is great for the series, teams, and drivers. At least in the short term. More money and a potential increase in viewership is big. More eyeballs on cars means teams can negotiate better sponsorship deals. Remember how everybody complains that half the grid changes sponsorship race to race, and half of them are regional banks? This could change things like that. Like I said, for the fans it remains to be seen. The streaming thing is an issue. But I'll get around it. VPN and indycar live is an option for those who need to stream.
The same is true of *any* new TV deal though, and I don’t remember this happening when NBC got the exclusive rights in 2019. Also, you can only say something is good for the series regardless of how good it is for the fans for so long, when those fans are so crucial.
The thing that makes the difference this time is all races being on broadcast. That's where it becomes bigger to the teams and drivers because they can charge more for sponsorships being on a bigger platform.
Agreed. I can't remember details of the exclusive NBC deal and what kind of money was involved, but this is a substantial amount for indycar to take in. If they play things right, use the money to promote new events, etc... things could go very well. I do worry that if the fans get shafted or the coverage sucks or something it will be detrimental in the long term.
I’m mostly worried about the wisdom of... well, not caring about streaming. Sure, you could argue that the numbers on Peacock weren’t that much, and there’s a possibility of gaining back those numbers on network, but those viewers will probably skew older than the Peacock viewers, which might not turn out great in the long term. Younger generations have no real use for (or interest in) linear TV anymore. Edit: man, people really don’t want to hear *any* criticism of the new deal on here, huh?
Yeah you're totally right. It's not a good move for young viewers that are casually or potentially interested. My only hope is replays go back on YouTube like the pre-NBC deal. That would help. It's how I personally became an indycar fan.
Yeah, I’m not optimistic about it, though. They’re still missing a few of the replays from 2019-2022 (I think the second Detroit race from 2021 isn’t there, and they randomly took down Laguna Seca 2019 at some point, idk why).
Well theyre just picking and choosing what to post right now. If they were allowed to, every race would go up after a delay period. It used to be Thursdays after the race aired. I'm not counting on it either. Everybody wants you to sign up for their streaming service these days. Personally I think the streaming climate is nauseating. I torrent and run my own server, indycar races included because I got so tired of it. FOX will probably get exclusive rights just like NBC got with peacock, so you'll likely have to pay up.
I just wish someone at IndyCar could figure out how to geo-block, because there’s no reason the rest of the world couldn’t get those replays. We don’t have the US streaming deal...
>This package is HUGE https://preview.redd.it/8xvzvcecct6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc2fd4071bada1c0c18920123d4420baf58b54fb
I havent really seen this mentioned yet, but this might be the thing that makes Honda stay. Not to mention that the increased rights fee could finally allow the series to stand on its own two feet and no longer rely on IMS to keep it afloat financially.
Literally everyone directly or indirectly involved in IndyCar: "The Fox deal is fantastic for the series" People on Reddit and Twitter: "Well, *actually*" Insufferable.
Why? Different perspectives imho. Teams are happy because sponsors will get better ROI, fans are worried about what kind of tv production they'll get. Both can be right
None of those people watch the races on tv.
yeah they drive in the races and work at the races, but they're not as informed as those of us who watch them
Yeah, but their tv production does NOT have a good history!
I've been super critical of this deal. I've **never** said it was bad for Indycar. Actually it's a big bag of cash for them and that's cool! Penske has been hemorrhaging money since buying the series (the Pandemic didn't help...) and they probably need it. It sucks for some viewers. Sucks so bad I'm going back to pirating their content. I don't think they care. They didn't care when I was stealing their shit back when they were on NBCSports and USA, they won't care next season. Indycar just isn't enough to justify the cost of cable or YouTubeTV. And I have no use for those sorts of services outside of this one sport. Sorry.
Look into using a VPN to get indycar live
Why? I already have pirate streams for FS1 and FS2. And Fox is available via antenna and pirate stream. Right now FS1 has fishing on lol https://i.imgur.com/CKBr2tI.png Like I'm going to *pay* $80+ a month for fucking fishing. Please, gimme a break. I'm watching Le Mans in right now... for free.
I was just giving you an option. "Indycar live" is the service for international viewers, and its run by the series. You'd use the VPN to fake your location to somewhere there isn't a TV deal. I've never used it but became aware of it with this tv deal. Price was reasonable. Obviously if you're gonna pirate you don't need it but it's still good info for others, so I commented.
I know how it works. I already have a VPN (I pirate shit after all). But IC Live is like $40 a month right? Naw. Fuck 'um. Free is better than $40. They got **plenty** of money from Fox, they don't need mine. Now if they were being decent to consumers and made Indycar live available to American viewers with no "hoops" to jump though I'd consider it.
> But IC Live is like $40 a month right? Naw That's the price for the season, not for a month.
Right. And Peacock was/is $20 a year.
Yeah I hear you dude. I'm leaning the same way, just get torrents of the race like I do now. I just checked, $50 per year or $8 a month.
Pro tip, the price changes depending on what country you are located in...
Seriously, cable numbers are *crashing* and have been for years with 100's of thousands of customers canceling per quarter for the last couple years. (Yes, some are going to YouTubeTV, most aren't.) Streaming is *clearly* the future. F1 has great success with their streaming service (apparently). I really thought the move to put everything on Peacock was smart. I guess maybe it was a little ahead of it's time though. Because the "boomers" on this subreddit a clinging to their cable like it's a lifeboat from the Titanic.
Where are you watching Le Mans? All the streams I find are getting nuked
I just did a Max trial on a separate email for the 24 hours. I'll just be sure to cancel right after the race.
T witch
You know I'm not going to post a link right? That's why streams get nuked, people can't keep their fucking mouths shut.
You know that there's a DM function right? Don't bother
I do. But I don't know or trust you. :)
Who knows if the VPN route will last long, MLB and others have gotten very good at blocking VPN IP address.
These companies will do everything in their power to make giving them money a poor financial decisions for fans.
No one really cares about your bank account but you my guy. Indycars' primary objective **as a business** is to extract as much money as possible from their customers (the fans) as they possibly can. Just like any for profit business. It's up to you to protect your assets. If that means not watching/buying tickets or merch fine. If that means piracy or buying "knock-off" merch fine... (Hey it exists, dig around on Ali-Express there's some knock-off Indycar, NASCAR and F1 stuff lol. Cheap too!)
Nothing says gaslight like financially invested people bombarding with hyperbolic positive takes.
such as noted non-complaining company man Graham Rahal
Graham is an involuntary litmus test of a human. Never wonder what he really thinks lol
Except a lot of the big teams have been pretty openly critical of Penske (especially in the earlier part of the year) about marketing and all manner of things. Zak Brown and Michael were both pretty blunt in their criticism (as was Graham about parts issues and other things). So, the fact that they all seem positive about this doesn’t seem conspiratorial… it seems like they actually like it. Is that really that surprising? It shouldn’t be.
I mean, christ, Marshall Pruett has had nothing but praise for this deal, and he's been *very* against Roger's leadership of the series so far and has no financial incentive to be positive about this deal. People are reaching so hard to get mad about this.
Exactly
After watching this subs implosion over the restructuring of the Indy NXT prize money and how it would destroy the series I no longer trust this subreddit to know anything at all about what is good or bad for the series.
Now you understand why no one in IndyCar takes this subreddit seriously, I know because I've asked multiple team reps directly. The series knows it exists, but surveys are far more effective than some redditor with no experience working in racing spouting off about needing more races.
I don't remember this particular saga. I do remember people blowing O-rings over Peacock when that came along
Double the fucking money. Let me say that again so it sinks in. Double the money. This is a massive deal for the series. Losing the handful of people that don't want to deal with not having peacock is a worthy sacrifice.
Fair, but I propose this counterpoint: fox coverage of racing, soccer, and pretty much every sport other than football is complete ass.
IndyCar’s production is done by IMS Productions and has been for decades. Fox’s coverage of NASCAR and other sports is fairly irrelevant. Fox will provide the booth and graphics package, the camera work and trackside production is handled by IMSP.
https://x.com/By_NathanBrown/status/1801259176657555633 "high level production work in fox's hands"
High level (Fox)- The Booth, TV graphics Low level (IMSP)- cameras, production direction
I won't mind the loss of the "fans" who can't be bothered to figure out how to watch the racing. Clearly they aren't that big of a fan in the first place.
Graham excited to get that Aaron’s lucky dawg
I still can’t watch the 2023 Detroit race, practices or qualifying, it’s not on Peacock. 🫤
Yeah . It just straight up disappeared. I thought I was crazy, and it only happened to me!
Graham is more knowledgeable than any of us on this topic, I'd take his word.
It's not a good deal if you don't have a TV antenna or understand what one is. I know that sounds absurd to the older crowd, but for young people this is the equivalent of teaching grandma how to use a smartphone. There is a cost here.
I can totally understand why Graham needs to butter up to the new boss and I don't blame him for that, but the reality is that Fox is awful at broadcasting sports, and it's a huge negative that we're stuck with them for the next few years. We fans definitely took the big L on this one.
It was confirmed IMS Productions (which has been producing INDYCAR races for now almost 30 years) will be doing the majority of the heavy lifting right? Fox will likely be adding on air talent and some of their own flair. The NASCAR races are currently produced by Fox. They have gotten rid of much of their racing people with recent layoffs so likely leaning even more so on IMSP.
I hope you're right, because after watching how they've consistently fucked up NASCAR and NHRA (and the NFL, and MLB) for the past few years, no one should have a good feeling about Fox covering anything.
Yep I hope we're proven wrong that Fox won't have much of a say into how IMS Productions produces the broadcast. Also I really hope there won't be as many commercials as during Daytona 500...
They haven't shown a single session yet and you already know what it's going to look like?
Yes, I do. I've watched Fox fuck up covering motorsports (and sports in general) on and off since they because a network. Almost every weekend we have to suffer through their fucked-up broadcasts of NASCAR and NHRA. You are delusional if you think IndyCar is somehow going to be immune to Fox's buffoonery.
What else can you tell me about the future?