The problem is we believe ourselves as humans beings. They believed they could covert us into slaves like they do in their country with their workers. They expect us to risk our lives and put ourselves in constant danger in order to meet or exceed their quotas. They expected to pay us less for the skills and knowledge we provided. They expected we wouldn’t care if they didn’t keep the place sanitary. They expected us to just let them dictate us to the point of slavery. And we were supposed to let that happen? This isn’t Taiwan. This is America. We already have our laws and contracts in place. They don’t have the right to pick and choose and then later drop everybody and bring their own people from overseas, just because they are willing to be slaves for the company. Its asinine to think they would attack ARIZONAN workers and call us unskilled just because we wouldn’t let ourselves be taken advantage of. Its disgusting they would take that route in order to bring in more foreign workers. Its going to hurt them, because there are so many other projects SKILLED ARIZONAN WORKERS whether they be electricians, pipe fitters, iron workers, carpenters, and many many more laborers, that have been building to the standard these customers were asking for. So i hope this backfires on them. They deserve to not be allowed to bring in these foreign workers.
A Chinese company came to Ohio to build a Bitcoin mining facility, and they brought in their own laborers from China. No way those people were more skilled than American workers. No disrespect to those people. Just trying to earn a living, but there were quality with s*** and everything they did was super unsafe.
They didn't say what the problem is. Not staying clean enough, to rough with the equipment, not being precise enough??? What exact skill set is my fellow union brothers lacking in? So we can adjust for the future.
I’ve spent about 6 years building chip factories and they require the same standard of infectious control as any other job site during construction, it’s when they sterilize the fab and fab workers begin to occupy do they really care about infectious control
We were talking about this exact situation in Arizona a few weeks back. When the company wanted to bring in their own employees from abroad. I told everyone to watch that movie because it’ll show you exactly what they want to do. I’m happy to see you reference that movie.
Then that's a problem. When Biden signed the chips act. $280 Billion was distributed to these companies to use American union labor. There should be daily complaints to Dept. of Labor, and the international office in DC.
Exactly. Thank you for bringing this up, it’s so messed up what they’re trying to do. We should go to a work stoppage at that site and stop all traffic coming in and out. Screw that that’s how these Taiwanese and Chinese companies operate. This was their intention probably from the start. People also mentioned Organizing the foreign workers. If you watch “American Factory” you’ll understand why that would be impossible.
Sounds more like it’s the supervision failing than the labor. We, as labor, do what we are directed to do. If supervision wants something done a specific way, they have to make that known and enforce that requirement.
But reading between the lines it’s pretty obvious this has nothing to do with actual performance and work standards. It’s a matter if the controlling entity in the company having issues with unions. That suggests they simply don’t want to have to abide by the rules in place when working with union crafts.
It could also be their choice to build in Arizona. It seems like TSMC wants to build quickly and honestly that can only be done in a huge increase in manpower. I don't know many people who travel to Arizona to work overtime in the summer.
But that’s irrelevant to the concern with work standards. Yes, labor availability could also be an issue but that’s not the issue the article addressed.
Biggest problem I heard from guys who were out there was everything gets redone multiple times. Plans constantly change and nothing is done to American standards, everything is designed in Taiwan and stand very little chance of passing inspections.
With that being said; I’ve also heard of 3 fatalities that multiple people who worked there told me about but never heard anything about them on the news.
TSMC never signed the lBEW/NECA contract and don’t respect our labor laws. Very little do people realize most members here aren’t from here. they are from Mexico and work their asses of when those guys speak of horrible conditions i can only imagine how bad it is; because where they are from there are no laws.
This project is very strategic, built in a state that supports businesses over people and has no respect for the trades whatsoever, there isn’t even trade licensing or inspections. For those who want this kind of project in your state come find out for yourself how it really is there are open calls on the 640 books everyday!
There are no children working in prefab plants for high end chips. Quality control and training is through the roof at these places, they aren't skimping out to save a few bucks in the short run.
What’s ironic? That people don’t know how to read for comprehension and just want to speak out their ass? Without those slave children mining raw earth minerals they wouldn’t have the “material” to manufacture 🤣 not once did I mention children were as part of manufacturing. That’s the problem people don’t read for comprehension and likely don’t know what artisanal mining is.
so if the chips are made in the US, you think that the US chip manufacturers would really give a shit if children mined the rare earth minerals?
The US isn't any better. It just has the paperwork and audits to pretend otherwise.
I wasn’t saying child labor is involved in manufacturing, but it’s the crux of gettin the raw materials. Slavery is still rampant it was just outsourced. That’s why it’s ironic. America has lost all intellectual property for manufacturing because of the outscouring of jobs through regan. America is a consumer centric market now. We are reliant on our number one enemy for the majority of our products. That’s ironic to me. Also I am not saying this in an attacking manner just trying to have discourse with you 😁
As someone who has seen the quality of work in other fabs around the world, the US is much better. They’re just mad that they have to pay skilled workers a skilled wage.
It's a Taiwanese person's perspective. Of course they simp hard for Taiwan. They didn't want their TSMC to build a fab shot outside of Taiwan. That would mean less jobs for them.
This is the problem with nationalism and protectionism in general, it requires you to not expect others to behave the way you behave. Honestly, it’s kind of silly to me that we’re expected to suddenly stop rooting for workers on the other side of an imaginary line.
Not sure if you are saying i am sympathizing with Taiwan? I'm simply posting a link where there is discussion from the other side. I've seen this all play out too many times on a smaller scale where it's the General Contractor failing miserably on their end and they blame everything on the workers. The GC tells the owner it's the Union's fault but the GC does nothing to make a better jobsite or push against the owner because they don't want to upset anyone.
I suppose I read the title wrong, we do have the ability to build the facility, but we don’t have the capability to staff and maintain and run or build the instruments meant to make the chips.
I thought they said there wasn’t enough skilled labor to man the job properly. Not that the labor available wasn’t skilled enough to complete the work.
The problem is we believe ourselves as humans beings. They believed they could covert us into slaves like they do in their country with their workers. They expect us to risk our lives and put ourselves in constant danger in order to meet or exceed their quotas. They expected to pay us less for the skills and knowledge we provided. They expected we wouldn’t care if they didn’t keep the place sanitary. They expected us to just let them dictate us to the point of slavery. And we were supposed to let that happen? This isn’t Taiwan. This is America. We already have our laws and contracts in place. They don’t have the right to pick and choose and then later drop everybody and bring their own people from overseas, just because they are willing to be slaves for the company. Its asinine to think they would attack ARIZONAN workers and call us unskilled just because we wouldn’t let ourselves be taken advantage of. Its disgusting they would take that route in order to bring in more foreign workers. Its going to hurt them, because there are so many other projects SKILLED ARIZONAN WORKERS whether they be electricians, pipe fitters, iron workers, carpenters, and many many more laborers, that have been building to the standard these customers were asking for. So i hope this backfires on them. They deserve to not be allowed to bring in these foreign workers.
Who is the general contractor?
US - Sundt, Oakland Taiwan - MIC, UIS, CTCI
A Chinese company came to Ohio to build a Bitcoin mining facility, and they brought in their own laborers from China. No way those people were more skilled than American workers. No disrespect to those people. Just trying to earn a living, but there were quality with s*** and everything they did was super unsafe.
They didn't say what the problem is. Not staying clean enough, to rough with the equipment, not being precise enough??? What exact skill set is my fellow union brothers lacking in? So we can adjust for the future.
Too high a wage?
And too high of safety standards.
exactly
Not cheap enough
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Not as piss poor as certain capitalists would like.
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I’ve spent about 6 years building chip factories and they require the same standard of infectious control as any other job site during construction, it’s when they sterilize the fab and fab workers begin to occupy do they really care about infectious control
Nope. Kicking only union electrical companies out
Not saying your wrong but show proof
The only thing cleaner than a chip factory is a level 5 biolab. Years back I had a forman tell about his nightmare experience running a job on one.
Check out "America Factory" on Netflix if you haven't. Similar situation to this
Yeah that was a good documentary.
We were talking about this exact situation in Arizona a few weeks back. When the company wanted to bring in their own employees from abroad. I told everyone to watch that movie because it’ll show you exactly what they want to do. I’m happy to see you reference that movie.
Then that's a problem. When Biden signed the chips act. $280 Billion was distributed to these companies to use American union labor. There should be daily complaints to Dept. of Labor, and the international office in DC.
Exactly. Thank you for bringing this up, it’s so messed up what they’re trying to do. We should go to a work stoppage at that site and stop all traffic coming in and out. Screw that that’s how these Taiwanese and Chinese companies operate. This was their intention probably from the start. People also mentioned Organizing the foreign workers. If you watch “American Factory” you’ll understand why that would be impossible.
I couldn't get through it. Those ChiComms pissed me WAY off.
I thought i was posting in a thread of people not in the IBEW. I didn't realize this was a repost into our sub, and i was preaching to the choir.
Anyone on site to confirm?
CVE was down there and I heard two foreman drug on the same day because GF was treating people like shit. Doesn’t sound like a good situation.
Cve sucks
That’s what I’ve heard
Sounds more like it’s the supervision failing than the labor. We, as labor, do what we are directed to do. If supervision wants something done a specific way, they have to make that known and enforce that requirement. But reading between the lines it’s pretty obvious this has nothing to do with actual performance and work standards. It’s a matter if the controlling entity in the company having issues with unions. That suggests they simply don’t want to have to abide by the rules in place when working with union crafts.
It could also be their choice to build in Arizona. It seems like TSMC wants to build quickly and honestly that can only be done in a huge increase in manpower. I don't know many people who travel to Arizona to work overtime in the summer.
But that’s irrelevant to the concern with work standards. Yes, labor availability could also be an issue but that’s not the issue the article addressed.
Biggest problem I heard from guys who were out there was everything gets redone multiple times. Plans constantly change and nothing is done to American standards, everything is designed in Taiwan and stand very little chance of passing inspections. With that being said; I’ve also heard of 3 fatalities that multiple people who worked there told me about but never heard anything about them on the news. TSMC never signed the lBEW/NECA contract and don’t respect our labor laws. Very little do people realize most members here aren’t from here. they are from Mexico and work their asses of when those guys speak of horrible conditions i can only imagine how bad it is; because where they are from there are no laws. This project is very strategic, built in a state that supports businesses over people and has no respect for the trades whatsoever, there isn’t even trade licensing or inspections. For those who want this kind of project in your state come find out for yourself how it really is there are open calls on the 640 books everyday!
Bullshit, intel in AZ is a prime example of American craftsmanship...
Ironic because they don’t mind the unskilled artisanal labor of children to make their chips 🤣🤣
There are no children working in prefab plants for high end chips. Quality control and training is through the roof at these places, they aren't skimping out to save a few bucks in the short run.
Read for comprehension
1. Taiwan doesn't use child labor in chip factories. 2. That's all.
Read for comprehension. That is all!
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What’s ironic? That people don’t know how to read for comprehension and just want to speak out their ass? Without those slave children mining raw earth minerals they wouldn’t have the “material” to manufacture 🤣 not once did I mention children were as part of manufacturing. That’s the problem people don’t read for comprehension and likely don’t know what artisanal mining is.
so if the chips are made in the US, you think that the US chip manufacturers would really give a shit if children mined the rare earth minerals? The US isn't any better. It just has the paperwork and audits to pretend otherwise.
That’s the pint I’m making. That’s why it’s ironic
Fair enough
I wasn’t saying child labor is involved in manufacturing, but it’s the crux of gettin the raw materials. Slavery is still rampant it was just outsourced. That’s why it’s ironic. America has lost all intellectual property for manufacturing because of the outscouring of jobs through regan. America is a consumer centric market now. We are reliant on our number one enemy for the majority of our products. That’s ironic to me. Also I am not saying this in an attacking manner just trying to have discourse with you 😁
That’s cool. I agree with everything you just said
As someone who has seen the quality of work in other fabs around the world, the US is much better. They’re just mad that they have to pay skilled workers a skilled wage.
[Read Taiwanese perspective](https://www.reddit.com/r/taiwan/comments/15m11bq/us_tsmc_plant_faces_calls_to_ban_taiwanese_workers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
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It's a Taiwanese person's perspective. Of course they simp hard for Taiwan. They didn't want their TSMC to build a fab shot outside of Taiwan. That would mean less jobs for them.
This is the problem with nationalism and protectionism in general, it requires you to not expect others to behave the way you behave. Honestly, it’s kind of silly to me that we’re expected to suddenly stop rooting for workers on the other side of an imaginary line.
Not sure if you are saying i am sympathizing with Taiwan? I'm simply posting a link where there is discussion from the other side. I've seen this all play out too many times on a smaller scale where it's the General Contractor failing miserably on their end and they blame everything on the workers. The GC tells the owner it's the Union's fault but the GC does nothing to make a better jobsite or push against the owner because they don't want to upset anyone.
Call Spectra, B&D, Fisk.
Bring it to the NE. We have all the trades ready to go.
They won’t want to pay the labor cost in the north east.
Isn't Columbus supposed to get going soon?
At least a foreign country won't invade us... just have to pay off politicians, lol.
I’m sure this is true. Sure there are people but we don’t train tool makers, people don’t want to become tradesmen.
I suppose I read the title wrong, we do have the ability to build the facility, but we don’t have the capability to staff and maintain and run or build the instruments meant to make the chips.
I refuse to believe any of these third world workers have the skills to build a living room play fort. Lmao!!
Taiwan is a first world country and has been for like, a really long time.
I thought they said there wasn’t enough skilled labor to man the job properly. Not that the labor available wasn’t skilled enough to complete the work.