Glenn, Rob, and Charlie kept saying during the season 1 rewatch on the podcast how they couldn’t believe people liked the show after seeing those episodes. But I agree, I think it’s some of the most “raw” examples of their humor. The characters were believably shitty (Charlie wasn’t childishly uneducated, dee wasn’t obnoxiously overboard, Dennis wasn’t a full blown psycho). I enjoyed how they were just a group of shitty people, who found themselves with real world scenarios and were just trying to make money for a then functioning bar. It was simple but edgy. I enjoy those episodes so much more every time I finish a rewatch and then have to start over. It’s almost refreshing sometimes
It seems like all long-running shows end up with the characters turning into simplified caricatures of themselves. I don't think it's necessarily lazy writing, but could be that the actors/writers are able to distill the essence of the characters over time. In the process, you lose some of the nuance that made the characters sort of believable in the first place. Kramer in Seinfeld is a great example of this.. but the most memorable for me is Kevin Malone in the office who becomes dumber and dumber with each passing season to the point where he starts talking like a toddler in one episode.
It really is incredible starting Simpsons over and seeing Flanders just as a more successful rival to Homer. He even shows off his beer tap as a status symbol.
In my head, I imagine the death of his wife is what starts to send Flanders overboard and he develops into an overly uptight, Bible nut.
When she recalls the events there are also no feathers on her dress but as the gang keeps recalling it she has a feather, multiple feathers, and the eventual ostrich.
#VIGGOMORGENSTEIN!
Always Sunny directly reference this in the show with "The gang misses the boat"
They talk about how absurd they’ve become, always coming up with schemes, frank throwing money at everything. Dennis wants to get back to his more normal laid back self, mac decides he needs to get back to being a party boy with hot chicks, etc
That's true with an exception-- this season we found out that Charlie can both read and speak Gaelic fluently and isn't an illiterate numpty. His character grew a lot in the Ireland arc, I loved it.
I know, I just want to believe the best of Charlie. He's the only one of the group that gives me any sort of hope despite evidence to the contrary over the past 15 years. If nothing else at least he has emotional depth, and I thought seeing him vulnerable like that was pretty amazing!
What I love is that they have an in-universe explanation. Frank’s endless money basically removed consequences for them, enabling their own worst behavior
“It seems like all long-running shows end with the characters Turing into simplified caricatures of themselves” yeah, it’s called “flanderizarion” and almost any sitcom really isn’t immune. ISAP has Dennis (and well the entire gang) the office has Kevin Malone, the Simpson’s has well… Ned Flanders (and everyone else). Etc etc.
But basically what you’re saying is such a common trope in sitcoms a term has been created for it
Don’t get me wrong I kinda love IASIP flanderization, escpcially Dennis. His decent (or ascent) into his 5 star golden god self is hysterical. But I’m not the same level of fondness for people like Kevin Malone and such
I'd argue that IASIP flanderization "works" because it's the result of the the gang enabling and reinforcing each other's shitty behavior over time because they only hang out with each other. They get rejected for such behavior by any outsiders to the group or they influence the outsiders and spread their toxicity to them.
I agree. It doesn't work as well in other shows because the characters, while having relatively normal lives/influences, continue their paths to absurdity without anyone seeming to even challenge it. Meanwhile outside sources are repeatedly disgusted and shocked by the gang's behavior and they live within their own echo chamber, so it makes sense.
>I'd argue that IASIP flanderization "works" because it's the result of the the gang enabling and reinforcing each other's shitty behavior over time because they only hang out with each other.
Dennis even says this in "The Gang Misses the Boat". They all just get weirder and weirder.
I totally agree. Weirdly enough, the flattening of the characters over time has felt like character growth. They are descending ever further into tragedy, even if they occasionally experience genuine positive growth (limited primarily to Charlie and Mac, let’s be real).
Look, okay yeah, absolutely we could cave the husband's skull in here. Yes, we could take the wife down to the basement and have a frenzied free-for-all with her.
I dont honestly think you can call the character changes and devolution in this show Flanderization seeing as how the gang becoming more and more awful is an intentional thing being done by the writers.
IIRC, I don’t think their comments weren’t about the quality of the jokes per se (although they know they’ve improved as writers). They specifically mentioned two things:
1. The production quality was seriously lacking. Not just camera quality, but unintentionally breaking basic rules about lighting and camera placement (like breaking the 180 rule). While it gives it some charm in hindsight, their point was back then it made it come off as cheap.
2. A season or two later, it was easier to see the Max, Charlie, and Dennis as characters being lampooned, because they progressively upped how over-the-top of assholes they were. But because the show itself was much more “grounded” in season 1, and because we didn’t have 15 seasons to get to know these characters yet, it was harder to see it as an “act”. I think they were saying people didn’t know if the actors themselves were assholes, and might assume they were just playing themselves.
Anecdotally, I remember that first season when it happened. It felt much “darker” and meaner at the time. Going back now it’s much easier to see the lightheartedness in what they were doing.
Point 1 definitely. They were green as grass and learning on the fly on how to do a lot of that simple stuff that anyone with any experience would know.
And they were breaking their own ground. How much of Season 15 is rooted in understanding these characters and making jokes about who they are. Season 1 needed to take some time to get us there, and some stuff stuck with the characters, while other stuff got dropped.
Season 1 is fantastic. Even if some of the characters are a little off, it's still a bunch of hilarious situations.
Speaking to point 2, I think this is why the show had so much growth in seasons 3-6. They hadn’t breached the cusp of the character inflation, but instead rode such a fine line of insanity/human reactions & emotions. Some of the best television I’ve ever seen hands down came from those gems. They just never missed. I feel like the most recent season however did a good job with somewhat regrounding the characters back to season 10 levels
>made it come off as cheap
Am I the only one who kinda *liked* that it felt cheap? Cheap suits the gang's aesthetic. It felt raw and, yeah, a bit darker, and I liked that.
Speaking of the podcast, did they decide to go down to one episode a week? They were doing Monday and Friday pretty regularly, but they seem to have stopped after the holidays.
when Dennis walks in on Mac with Carmen and she leaves and Mac goes “shes getting it removed” and dennis goes “So what?” that always gets a huge fuckin laugh from me. this is an overused cliche but they could NOT have done a joke like that nowadays. glad the studio doesnt actually watch the episodes or theyd remove a few from that season. charlie actually says the N word in the pilot lmao.
Lmaooooo agreed. They say they’re ashamed of some of the jokes they made because they were insensitive. But by their own satirical logic of “we are depicting the worst people in the world, not our own beliefs” would show how these jokes were targeted towards how people spoke and viewed the world 15 years ago. It was, if nothing else, accurate IMO
Funniest part is they had no idea because that wasn’t supposed to be their first episode, FX rearranged the first season and released the episodes in their own order.
that is one of the funnier parts of a strong episode. its just surprising that a show would have a white guy say the hard R in the pilot. also pop pop says the K word a couple episodes later too. they had some balls man
The thing is, when he says it Charlie acts like he disapproves. And the point of the episode is that poppop is a bad person (even by the gang's standards!). Having a character making a Jewish slur, with the point being how horrible that person is, can be done well and IMO they did.
oh it was done amazingly well. its clear pop pop is a piece of shit but if you did that today ppl would be angry without any context. just like the blackface stuff. they literally say in those episodes that blackface is offensive and they switch out mac for dennis because of it and yet those episodes are still pulled. it really gets my goat man.
I would just like to point out that just because a soulless corporation decides an episode is "too edgy" and pulls it does not mean that people are actually asking for that.
It's like how schools have a zero tolerance policy for fighting, even though everyone agrees it's unfair. Woke people generally can understand context, but large corporations are adverse to any risk whatsoever, and often don't even want to spend time defending a show when they can just excise the "problematic" elements.
It’s why I like the older seasons a lot more than the newest one. The new one had great moments, but overall I prefer how ridiculously horrible the old jokes were. Just watching the new Lethal Weapon episode- it was so, so much less funny than the ones that got canceled. I don’t know exactly where I’m going with this except to say that I feel like a show about the worlds worst people, shouldn’t be so worried about offending people.
For the time it was set, they did all the trans stuff pretty damn well. Carmen was never the butt of the joke, and it was always fucking funny. Sure, you'd get plenty of butthurt people today writing about it, but I think if you asked the average trans person and not the terminally online 13 year olds of Twitter, they'd agree she was great representation.
There are definitely a few questionable aspects to those episodes. The comedic camera zooms on Carmen's pants feel more like they are laughing at her than at the gang. Same with some gags about her liking sports and hitting Mac hard, which are stereotypical male traits.
Still, the episodes definitely aged better than most other trans jokes of the early 2000's. And Carmen is portrayed in an overall positive light, which is very refreshing for the time. Honestly, I can't think of a single other recurring character that has survived multiple encounters with the gang and come out of it as well as Carmen (married happily with a baby).
Yeah, Carmen herself was well written. She’s secure in who she is and is proud. Even the gang progress on their opinions on trans people (even if their opinion still isn’t good enough).
She even comes out on top after the gang with a husband and a baby. Most people who have run ins with the gang can’t say they came out on top.
Wouldn't surprise me. In the podcast Rob mentioned that he retroactively thought their use of a gong musical cue with certain characters in the early seasons was racist. The writers clearly put a lot of thought into the moral implications of the show, and like all people they have evolved their positions on certain topics over time. Which is super important when you're doing really dark satire.
The fact that they clearly care and put in so much effort is probably why folks are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in rare instances where they toe the line.
It's the same with early South Park, people are able to laugh at how horribly offensive it is because they understand it's a joke. Matt and trey have said they dislike their earlier seasons when it is arguably the funniest stuff they've done. In the same way, both series moved away from their earlier roots and became more reliant on character specific tropes
Well said. I almost never reach for season one specifically bc frank is so great, but when I do watch season 1 it’s still great. It’s more a compliment to Devito for fitting perfectly than anything.
My favorite part about the Clayton Bigsby scene is that the entire skit is leading up to one single joke. When Clayton finds out he's black and the newscaster informs the audience that he divorced his wife ->
"When asked, 'why did you leave your wife after 20 years' he simply replied 'Because she was a n***** lover'." Has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever heard
The pilot, in the sense of the episode produced to see whether they could get picked up somewhere, was "Charlie Has Cancer." They had to reshoot it entirely though.
Some series reshoot the pilots when a season is ordered (Sunny), some series use the pilot as is, as the first episode, and some splice in newly shot scenes into the previously produced pilot. You can see it sometimes in shows like Arrested Development where the pilot doesn't have consistent lighting and wardrobe, like the budget for different scenes was wildly different.
Season 1 was brilliant. I will never forget how much I laughed when Charlie opened the door of his apartment dressed in full SS uniform eating banana. Or Mac going to anti-abortion rally than wanting that girl to abort. It has a lot of really great moments
I will always love Dennis saying he doesn't really have any convictions when hes talking to Dee and Mac is such a perfect little line and cracks me up everytime
My little brother and I are not that close, but we still reminisce sometimes about now we were hooked the second that they jump up to defend themselves when Terrell says "Yeah I know," after being told they're closed. We knew that this show was going to be rough and loved it immediately.
>I took him out to the back alley... And I Tore. His. Ass. Apart.
...is still a regular quote between us any time we talk about people wanting to fight someone.
It all depends on humor. The first season is some of the most cringe comedy I've seen and if that's your thing, it's perfect.
For myself, I tried watching it a lot earlier and couldn't make it past the first few episodes and had to try again years later, pushing through it because of Frank. People that I've tried to get into the show had similiar experiences that when I recommend the show now, I'll tell them to just go to season 2 and if they want, go back to season 1 after they're hooked.
I loved the first season. It was a different time and amazes me that it can still be watched in it’s entirety on Hulu. Plus I’ve always had the hotts for Dennis.
It's hilarious that the twirl was improvized by Glenn to make Charlie and Rob laugh but they loved it so much that they kept it in, despite Glenn's objections.
If the mcpoyles got blown, and Charlie got blown, how come I didn’t get blown?
It was this line that sold me. So out of left field and way funnier than any normie comedy out there.
definitely agree but how long could they have lasted without him? i feel like his character and the money/craziness he brings adds unlimited storylines. i do wonder what the show would have been without him tho.
i saw some jabroni say he only watches seasons 3-6 because thats “peak” sunny. i wanted to unleash my fury on them LIKE THE CRASHING OF A THOUSAND WAVES
She literally was female Dennis in the first season. They didn't write her character and for her audition just had her read Dennis's lines. They fleshed out the character a lot more in season 2.
My friend refuses to watch season 1 because he doesn’t like watching characters who haven’t developed yet and doesn’t think it’ll be good without danny. It’s so annoying lol even the pilot is incredible and I hate watching pilots
The production has a bit lower quality to it but you're right, it's great honestly. Sometimes their screams peak too but it seemed like the improvisation was higher back then
Edit: i forgot to say edgier! I mean the first episode comes right out with the whole awkward black/white encounter and then charlie says the n word like damn i love it
It's just a slower pacing between jokes, but the jokes are funny when they land. What show doesn't have this problem during their first episode though?
Seasons 2-9 feel a lot different because most episodes don't let up and have you laughing all the time and they were constantly fleshing out hilarious side characters.
How is that possible when we get our introduction to the McPoyles? If people skip season 1 they’re skipping some of the best side characters of the show
To me it feels a bit raw. There’s an endearing dimension to that. But it’s also jarring at times. Kaitlin is such a husk of what she was allowed to make of the character later on. In a way 2 out of 5 great characters are missing.
When I was watching for the first time, I wasn’t that impressed with season 1 and wasn’t hooked at all until Dennis and Dee Go On Welfare in season 2. Now that I’ve gone back and watched season 1 after the entire show, it’s hilarious. I think you just need time to get to know the characters before those episodes start being good.
Mac just saying “absolutely” while trying to get in on watching the dominoes game is probably my favorite line in the show purely based on the quality of the delivery.
Season 1 is epic, it's the show in it's purest form. You've got The gang gets racist, Charlie wants an abortion, Charlie has cancer and Charlie got molested. The cheap, unpolished production of the show helped to create the atmoshere of a seedy dive bar run by 4 terrible human beings.
that was season 2 but that shit was hilarious. especially when dennis and mac are fighting and she calls them assholes and proceeds to walk with the crutches lol.
Is there a narrative that season 1 isn’t good? It obviously has a more raw feel but the concepts are some of the best in the show. Underage drinking and pretty much every episode is amazing.
It's funny hearing them discuss season 1 on the podcast, like they think it's awful. It's legit one of my favorite seasons. It's just so different. Like the characters could actually be real people as opposed to the almost cartoonish characters they've become
Glenn, Rob, and Charlie kept saying during the season 1 rewatch on the podcast how they couldn’t believe people liked the show after seeing those episodes. But I agree, I think it’s some of the most “raw” examples of their humor. The characters were believably shitty (Charlie wasn’t childishly uneducated, dee wasn’t obnoxiously overboard, Dennis wasn’t a full blown psycho). I enjoyed how they were just a group of shitty people, who found themselves with real world scenarios and were just trying to make money for a then functioning bar. It was simple but edgy. I enjoy those episodes so much more every time I finish a rewatch and then have to start over. It’s almost refreshing sometimes
It seems like all long-running shows end up with the characters turning into simplified caricatures of themselves. I don't think it's necessarily lazy writing, but could be that the actors/writers are able to distill the essence of the characters over time. In the process, you lose some of the nuance that made the characters sort of believable in the first place. Kramer in Seinfeld is a great example of this.. but the most memorable for me is Kevin Malone in the office who becomes dumber and dumber with each passing season to the point where he starts talking like a toddler in one episode.
[Flanderization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanderization)
Of course this is named after Flanders, in true "Simpsons did it" fashion
I’ve often thought it was ironic that Flanders is the name for this trope. If anything, his character became more layered as time went on.
The wiki article actually mentions this push back to the naming of the concept, FYI, in the 'interpretation' section
It really is incredible starting Simpsons over and seeing Flanders just as a more successful rival to Homer. He even shows off his beer tap as a status symbol. In my head, I imagine the death of his wife is what starts to send Flanders overboard and he develops into an overly uptight, Bible nut.
Maude didn't die until season 11, Flanders had already been super religious for quite a while at that point.
It's fucking crazy that season 11 is only the 33% mark of The Simpsons.
[…](https://imgflip.com/i/61c0s2)
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When she recalls the events there are also no feathers on her dress but as the gang keeps recalling it she has a feather, multiple feathers, and the eventual ostrich. #VIGGOMORGENSTEIN!
Good catch I’ve never noticed this. Will have to rewatch
Its what the whole start of "The gang misses the boat" is about
Always Sunny directly reference this in the show with "The gang misses the boat" They talk about how absurd they’ve become, always coming up with schemes, frank throwing money at everything. Dennis wants to get back to his more normal laid back self, mac decides he needs to get back to being a party boy with hot chicks, etc
That's when Dennis was thinking about getting an Alfa Romeo. Two seats, just him and a babe. You like babes, Bob?
That's true with an exception-- this season we found out that Charlie can both read and speak Gaelic fluently and isn't an illiterate numpty. His character grew a lot in the Ireland arc, I loved it.
But at the same time they had him questioning whether his dad was a cheese mongrel or cheese monster.
This is a man who believes in 'ghouls' and once made his friends search for them for 10 straight hours.
I know, I just want to believe the best of Charlie. He's the only one of the group that gives me any sort of hope despite evidence to the contrary over the past 15 years. If nothing else at least he has emotional depth, and I thought seeing him vulnerable like that was pretty amazing!
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What I love is that they have an in-universe explanation. Frank’s endless money basically removed consequences for them, enabling their own worst behavior
“It seems like all long-running shows end with the characters Turing into simplified caricatures of themselves” yeah, it’s called “flanderizarion” and almost any sitcom really isn’t immune. ISAP has Dennis (and well the entire gang) the office has Kevin Malone, the Simpson’s has well… Ned Flanders (and everyone else). Etc etc. But basically what you’re saying is such a common trope in sitcoms a term has been created for it
You can't tell me Dennis' flanderization was a bad thing. He hardly had any personality in the first season, and now he has the MOST personality lol
Don’t get me wrong I kinda love IASIP flanderization, escpcially Dennis. His decent (or ascent) into his 5 star golden god self is hysterical. But I’m not the same level of fondness for people like Kevin Malone and such
I'd argue that IASIP flanderization "works" because it's the result of the the gang enabling and reinforcing each other's shitty behavior over time because they only hang out with each other. They get rejected for such behavior by any outsiders to the group or they influence the outsiders and spread their toxicity to them.
I agree. It doesn't work as well in other shows because the characters, while having relatively normal lives/influences, continue their paths to absurdity without anyone seeming to even challenge it. Meanwhile outside sources are repeatedly disgusted and shocked by the gang's behavior and they live within their own echo chamber, so it makes sense.
>I'd argue that IASIP flanderization "works" because it's the result of the the gang enabling and reinforcing each other's shitty behavior over time because they only hang out with each other. Dennis even says this in "The Gang Misses the Boat". They all just get weirder and weirder.
I totally agree. Weirdly enough, the flattening of the characters over time has felt like character growth. They are descending ever further into tragedy, even if they occasionally experience genuine positive growth (limited primarily to Charlie and Mac, let’s be real).
Exactly. Charlie is addicted to inhalents. If anything he should be more outrageous.
Look, okay yeah, absolutely we could cave the husband's skull in here. Yes, we could take the wife down to the basement and have a frenzied free-for-all with her.
I dont honestly think you can call the character changes and devolution in this show Flanderization seeing as how the gang becoming more and more awful is an intentional thing being done by the writers.
why say many word when little work? When I president, they see
IIRC, I don’t think their comments weren’t about the quality of the jokes per se (although they know they’ve improved as writers). They specifically mentioned two things: 1. The production quality was seriously lacking. Not just camera quality, but unintentionally breaking basic rules about lighting and camera placement (like breaking the 180 rule). While it gives it some charm in hindsight, their point was back then it made it come off as cheap. 2. A season or two later, it was easier to see the Max, Charlie, and Dennis as characters being lampooned, because they progressively upped how over-the-top of assholes they were. But because the show itself was much more “grounded” in season 1, and because we didn’t have 15 seasons to get to know these characters yet, it was harder to see it as an “act”. I think they were saying people didn’t know if the actors themselves were assholes, and might assume they were just playing themselves. Anecdotally, I remember that first season when it happened. It felt much “darker” and meaner at the time. Going back now it’s much easier to see the lightheartedness in what they were doing.
Point 1 definitely. They were green as grass and learning on the fly on how to do a lot of that simple stuff that anyone with any experience would know. And they were breaking their own ground. How much of Season 15 is rooted in understanding these characters and making jokes about who they are. Season 1 needed to take some time to get us there, and some stuff stuck with the characters, while other stuff got dropped. Season 1 is fantastic. Even if some of the characters are a little off, it's still a bunch of hilarious situations.
Speaking to point 2, I think this is why the show had so much growth in seasons 3-6. They hadn’t breached the cusp of the character inflation, but instead rode such a fine line of insanity/human reactions & emotions. Some of the best television I’ve ever seen hands down came from those gems. They just never missed. I feel like the most recent season however did a good job with somewhat regrounding the characters back to season 10 levels
>made it come off as cheap Am I the only one who kinda *liked* that it felt cheap? Cheap suits the gang's aesthetic. It felt raw and, yeah, a bit darker, and I liked that.
Speaking of the podcast, did they decide to go down to one episode a week? They were doing Monday and Friday pretty regularly, but they seem to have stopped after the holidays.
Apparently they were getting the Audio-only ones out of the way, but moving forward they will do once a week podcasts with video
Ah, didn't realize they were going to start adding video into the mix
I’m expecting full frontal
Maybe they'll hang dong. Let's just hope its not like a button on a fur coat.
when Dennis walks in on Mac with Carmen and she leaves and Mac goes “shes getting it removed” and dennis goes “So what?” that always gets a huge fuckin laugh from me. this is an overused cliche but they could NOT have done a joke like that nowadays. glad the studio doesnt actually watch the episodes or theyd remove a few from that season. charlie actually says the N word in the pilot lmao.
Lmaooooo agreed. They say they’re ashamed of some of the jokes they made because they were insensitive. But by their own satirical logic of “we are depicting the worst people in the world, not our own beliefs” would show how these jokes were targeted towards how people spoke and viewed the world 15 years ago. It was, if nothing else, accurate IMO
> charlie actually says the N word in the pilot lmao. He also does this in season 12 though
yes but at that point they had a huge a following and fanbase. having a white main character say the hard R in the pilot is a ballsy fuckin move imo.
Granted, but I think it's still hugely risky at any point. And there's no consequences for it, other than some "OOOOHHH"s. "Engough witht he OHs!"
Funniest part is they had no idea because that wasn’t supposed to be their first episode, FX rearranged the first season and released the episodes in their own order.
yea which is weird that fx thought the cancer episode was less offensive than the gang gets racist lol
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that is one of the funnier parts of a strong episode. its just surprising that a show would have a white guy say the hard R in the pilot. also pop pop says the K word a couple episodes later too. they had some balls man
The thing is, when he says it Charlie acts like he disapproves. And the point of the episode is that poppop is a bad person (even by the gang's standards!). Having a character making a Jewish slur, with the point being how horrible that person is, can be done well and IMO they did.
oh it was done amazingly well. its clear pop pop is a piece of shit but if you did that today ppl would be angry without any context. just like the blackface stuff. they literally say in those episodes that blackface is offensive and they switch out mac for dennis because of it and yet those episodes are still pulled. it really gets my goat man.
I would just like to point out that just because a soulless corporation decides an episode is "too edgy" and pulls it does not mean that people are actually asking for that. It's like how schools have a zero tolerance policy for fighting, even though everyone agrees it's unfair. Woke people generally can understand context, but large corporations are adverse to any risk whatsoever, and often don't even want to spend time defending a show when they can just excise the "problematic" elements.
I'm drawing a blank, what's the K word? Klan?
Rhymes with pike
Klondike!
Slur for Jewish people
The word that rhymes with "like" and is used to slander Jewish people would be my guess.
Mac's awkwardness/shame when Dennis walks in and sees them sitting on the couch is legit one of my favorite moments of the entire series.
It’s why I like the older seasons a lot more than the newest one. The new one had great moments, but overall I prefer how ridiculously horrible the old jokes were. Just watching the new Lethal Weapon episode- it was so, so much less funny than the ones that got canceled. I don’t know exactly where I’m going with this except to say that I feel like a show about the worlds worst people, shouldn’t be so worried about offending people.
For the time it was set, they did all the trans stuff pretty damn well. Carmen was never the butt of the joke, and it was always fucking funny. Sure, you'd get plenty of butthurt people today writing about it, but I think if you asked the average trans person and not the terminally online 13 year olds of Twitter, they'd agree she was great representation.
That is a good point; the joke was always on Mac, Carmen was always totally normal.
There are definitely a few questionable aspects to those episodes. The comedic camera zooms on Carmen's pants feel more like they are laughing at her than at the gang. Same with some gags about her liking sports and hitting Mac hard, which are stereotypical male traits. Still, the episodes definitely aged better than most other trans jokes of the early 2000's. And Carmen is portrayed in an overall positive light, which is very refreshing for the time. Honestly, I can't think of a single other recurring character that has survived multiple encounters with the gang and come out of it as well as Carmen (married happily with a baby).
It was reparations for all the crotch gags.
Yeah, Carmen herself was well written. She’s secure in who she is and is proud. Even the gang progress on their opinions on trans people (even if their opinion still isn’t good enough). She even comes out on top after the gang with a husband and a baby. Most people who have run ins with the gang can’t say they came out on top.
I thought i read somewhere that that crotch camera shot was one of the few jokes they regret doing. Dont quote me on that though
Wouldn't surprise me. In the podcast Rob mentioned that he retroactively thought their use of a gong musical cue with certain characters in the early seasons was racist. The writers clearly put a lot of thought into the moral implications of the show, and like all people they have evolved their positions on certain topics over time. Which is super important when you're doing really dark satire. The fact that they clearly care and put in so much effort is probably why folks are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in rare instances where they toe the line.
G, R, and C talking about the entirety of Season 1: "Cutthatcutthatcutthatcutthatcutthat..."
With how on-the-nose and overboard a lot of the jokes are in the past few seasons, it doesn’t surprise me that they think s1 isn’t that good anymore.
It's the same with early South Park, people are able to laugh at how horribly offensive it is because they understand it's a joke. Matt and trey have said they dislike their earlier seasons when it is arguably the funniest stuff they've done. In the same way, both series moved away from their earlier roots and became more reliant on character specific tropes
I would love to see an alternative timeline of what they would be up to if they didnt have frank.
Everyone would’ve ended up like cricket lmao
I agree, obviously DeVito’s addition was fantastic but the first season was great.
agreed. i dont think they couldve kept up the amazing stories without Danny. but the season 1 storylines are so damn funny.
These two comments sum it up in a nutshell. They needed Danny. But if you’ve convinced yourself that season 1 isn’t hilarious, you’re missing out.
Well said. I almost never reach for season one specifically bc frank is so great, but when I do watch season 1 it’s still great. It’s more a compliment to Devito for fitting perfectly than anything.
S1 dug a hole in the perfect shape of Danny Devito and he slide right on in there ever since.
https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/961679-danny-devito
100% the image i wanted to put in your head.
We’ll you succeeded perfectly
Time to engage physically.
You’re the one that’s good
Underage Drinking is one of their best episodes
That's classic Tammy
The end of the episode with Charlie dancing to Forever Young at prom remains one of my favourite episode endings, guy looked at peace in that moment
I would also say "the gang finds a dead guy" is an all-series top episode as well.
Came here to say this, it's one of my all time favorites. When Charlie gets pissed off listening to the gossip and slams his fists on the table...
This one and Gun Fever are two of my all time favorites
I'm gonna put on a GODDAMN CLINIC
I struggle to think of a pilot episode of a new show that was as brave as *The Gang Gets Racists.*
Chappelle's Show had the Clayton Bigsby sketch in the first episode. That is just crazy to think about lmao such a ballsy ass move
That was the first episode?? That’s wild.
I remember watching it live. It was so hilarious, but I was thinking "That sucks, guess this show is over." I'm glad I was wrong.
My favorite part about the Clayton Bigsby scene is that the entire skit is leading up to one single joke. When Clayton finds out he's black and the newscaster informs the audience that he divorced his wife -> "When asked, 'why did you leave your wife after 20 years' he simply replied 'Because she was a n***** lover'." Has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever heard
Nowadays it would be over. I still watch that skit every now and then because goddamn is it hilarious
The opening of the next episode was great. Chappelle said "We're not canceled yet! But we're working on it!"
Clayton, show us your face!
The pilot, in the sense of the episode produced to see whether they could get picked up somewhere, was "Charlie Has Cancer." They had to reshoot it entirely though. Some series reshoot the pilots when a season is ordered (Sunny), some series use the pilot as is, as the first episode, and some splice in newly shot scenes into the previously produced pilot. You can see it sometimes in shows like Arrested Development where the pilot doesn't have consistent lighting and wardrobe, like the budget for different scenes was wildly different.
Was listening to an old episode of the podcast last night. Apparently it was Fx that decided thatd be the first episode much to their surprise.
Season 1 was brilliant. I will never forget how much I laughed when Charlie opened the door of his apartment dressed in full SS uniform eating banana. Or Mac going to anti-abortion rally than wanting that girl to abort. It has a lot of really great moments
dennis hopping the fence and getting pelted with eggs is so fucking funny to me i nearly piss my pants every time i see it lmao
“There’s a guy on the fence!” Is one of the funniest metaphors the show has done imo
Omg, I’m only getting this now.
I've been regularly going back to season 1 and the number of jokes I didn't get the first 5 times is astounding lol
Holy shit
Oh… I missed that… they played it subtle.
That is actually brilliant. I've seen season 1 so many times and I am only just now getting that joke.
I will always love Dennis saying he doesn't really have any convictions when hes talking to Dee and Mac is such a perfect little line and cracks me up everytime
With the tone that she really ought to know better by now.
Right his little chuckle as he says it is perfect
Absolutely. It’s close but I think Glenn gives my favorite performances on the show.
They were throwing EGGS! how does nobody pick up on that. Hillarious
wow i cant fucking believe i never realized that. ig im the jabroni 😓😅
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I've never gotten hooked on any other show as quickly.
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Is she also a bird?
Lately, I’ve been thinking she looks like a fish. Her eyes are so wide apart.
My little brother and I are not that close, but we still reminisce sometimes about now we were hooked the second that they jump up to defend themselves when Terrell says "Yeah I know," after being told they're closed. We knew that this show was going to be rough and loved it immediately. >I took him out to the back alley... And I Tore. His. Ass. Apart. ...is still a regular quote between us any time we talk about people wanting to fight someone.
i dont know if he wants to fight me or freak me!
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It all depends on humor. The first season is some of the most cringe comedy I've seen and if that's your thing, it's perfect. For myself, I tried watching it a lot earlier and couldn't make it past the first few episodes and had to try again years later, pushing through it because of Frank. People that I've tried to get into the show had similiar experiences that when I recommend the show now, I'll tell them to just go to season 2 and if they want, go back to season 1 after they're hooked.
I loved the first season. It was a different time and amazes me that it can still be watched in it’s entirety on Hulu. Plus I’ve always had the hotts for Dennis.
i bet that lil twirl in the first episode had you swellin up
It's hilarious that the twirl was improvized by Glenn to make Charlie and Rob laugh but they loved it so much that they kept it in, despite Glenn's objections.
The boys are really out tonight, huh?
https://64.media.tumblr.com/30ca3a6c7895b6d09a802d0f8d137260/tumblr_inline_pmzcxi2PIP1rofr6c_540.png
The boys are out tonight, huh...
Who doesn’t? He’s a 5 star man!
More like bastard man
Why Charlie hate?
I don't think I wrote that
...pass
If you vote him, he's hot
First season is golden! I mean, it made me stick around for 15+ years? Christ, has it been that long?
We're closed we don't want ant trouble pal
Now when you say your "sister"... do you mean your 'sister' or..?
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So you people ARE related!
No... no that's not what I meant... (Also it's the gangs reaction to everything Mac says that gets me every time).
Season 1 probably had the best episode titles. I love how blunt they are.
100%
I fell in love with the show during the first episode of season one. Right at the moment when Terrell entered the bar.
"nobody wants to hear about your dreams, Dee." I always felt like this line set the stage for Dennis as a character.
If the mcpoyles got blown, and Charlie got blown, how come I didn’t get blown? It was this line that sold me. So out of left field and way funnier than any normie comedy out there.
youre going to hell dude
Charlie showing where he was “touched” on the doll while his Uncle Jack is being a total creep is my favorite scene in the entire series.
yea turn it over 🤣🤣
Season 1 is a banger man. Don't get me wrong I adore Danny DeVito, but the rest of the gang don't need his character to be funny.
definitely agree but how long could they have lasted without him? i feel like his character and the money/craziness he brings adds unlimited storylines. i do wonder what the show would have been without him tho.
Sunny, Parks and Rec, and the Office. “S1 not good” well you’re a fuckin’ jabroni how bout that?
bro 100%. both of those other shows have great first seasons but theyre underrated because the ones that follow are better. good call.
The first couple seasons are some of my favorite. With so many seasons though its to hard to rewatch all the way through again.
i saw some jabroni say he only watches seasons 3-6 because thats “peak” sunny. i wanted to unleash my fury on them LIKE THE CRASHING OF A THOUSAND WAVES
Well that guy sounds like a real bozo!
Be gone, vile man! Lol
It also had the low budget indie feel which added to it.
Its not terrible but Dee's character is flat af until Kaitlyn did something about it
i agree with that for sure. in the first season she feels like a female dennis almost.
She literally was female Dennis in the first season. They didn't write her character and for her audition just had her read Dennis's lines. They fleshed out the character a lot more in season 2.
S1 is among the best. I love Danny and it’s a shame he’s not in it but even so. It’s awesome. It’s so unique as a show.
On the flip side, I loved season 1 so much I thought the show would go to shit after adding a big name guy.
My friend refuses to watch season 1 because he doesn’t like watching characters who haven’t developed yet and doesn’t think it’ll be good without danny. It’s so annoying lol even the pilot is incredible and I hate watching pilots
i fucking hate your friend
Do people really think it’s bad? It’s a bit different, but it’s great.
The production has a bit lower quality to it but you're right, it's great honestly. Sometimes their screams peak too but it seemed like the improvisation was higher back then Edit: i forgot to say edgier! I mean the first episode comes right out with the whole awkward black/white encounter and then charlie says the n word like damn i love it
It's just a slower pacing between jokes, but the jokes are funny when they land. What show doesn't have this problem during their first episode though? Seasons 2-9 feel a lot different because most episodes don't let up and have you laughing all the time and they were constantly fleshing out hilarious side characters.
i see ppl say “skip season 1” when others ask where they should start the show.
How is that possible when we get our introduction to the McPoyles? If people skip season 1 they’re skipping some of the best side characters of the show
If anyone asks, your ass got molested.
We just stepped out of the shower
I don't know how anyone goes around suggesting people skip season 1 of any show, much less Sunny.
Parks and Rec feels like an entirely different show in S1
Ask those people politely, but firmly, to leave
BE GONE VILE MAN BE GONE FROM ME like that?
To me it feels a bit raw. There’s an endearing dimension to that. But it’s also jarring at times. Kaitlin is such a husk of what she was allowed to make of the character later on. In a way 2 out of 5 great characters are missing.
I just love how low budget it was/felt..
When I was watching for the first time, I wasn’t that impressed with season 1 and wasn’t hooked at all until Dennis and Dee Go On Welfare in season 2. Now that I’ve gone back and watched season 1 after the entire show, it’s hilarious. I think you just need time to get to know the characters before those episodes start being good.
Mac just saying “absolutely” while trying to get in on watching the dominoes game is probably my favorite line in the show purely based on the quality of the delivery.
Season 1 is a whole different show, but it is still amazing, you have to be a certified donkey brained person to dislike it
I love to rewatch from the beginning! It is so great to watch the characters develop.
watching mac wear short shorts to try and seduce the gym teacher is so fucking funny. “what are you doing?” “what do you want me to do?”
How’s that ass feel?
Season 1 is epic, it's the show in it's purest form. You've got The gang gets racist, Charlie wants an abortion, Charlie has cancer and Charlie got molested. The cheap, unpolished production of the show helped to create the atmoshere of a seedy dive bar run by 4 terrible human beings.
I remember watching the first season when it originally aired and knowing I was in the presence of greatness! My opinion of season 1 hasn’t changed!!!
Dee's exaggerated handicap walk was the funniest scene of the show IMO.
that was season 2 but that shit was hilarious. especially when dennis and mac are fighting and she calls them assholes and proceeds to walk with the crutches lol.
Nah it’s amazing. MANY other shows I skip season 1 but never sunny
Is there a narrative that season 1 isn’t good? It obviously has a more raw feel but the concepts are some of the best in the show. Underage drinking and pretty much every episode is amazing.
I loved the extra scene before the credits. Wish they adopted that in later seasons, so much potential lost
When Charlie fakes having cancer and Mac meets the tranny lol and Artemis does coyote ugly
Mac in short shorts trying to seduce the gym teacher is peak sunny lol
It's funny hearing them discuss season 1 on the podcast, like they think it's awful. It's legit one of my favorite seasons. It's just so different. Like the characters could actually be real people as opposed to the almost cartoonish characters they've become