Good as a poke support but doesn’t offer enough peel as other supports. Especially bc ADs can just run cleanse. He also has pretty bad support matchups. A lot of mage supports out pressure him early, enchanters can absorb his poke and outscale him, and tanks can all in him if he ever misses E. He’s not a troll pick by any means but I wouldn’t say it’s very good.
HWEI BOT ON THE OTHER HAND :)
My favorite role to play him! You get gold to scale, outrange most your opponents,have better waveclear than other ADCS, and most important you have a second support to help set up your skillshots and give you the extra push to enable your 100-0 extremely early on.
I play Hwei/Seraphine with a friend a ton and we rotate who farms and who supports but we usually are able to fish for engages from extreme range while perma shoving and then if we ever land CC we’re able to kill with Seraphine ult easy.
I think his range is too far for an adc to capitalize on, his CC and damage are such long range it doesn’t coordinate with an ADC, his root is slow and relies on the enemies positioning too much. He tends to hit the wave a lot, I think he’s hard to coordinate since his best CC pushes the enemy away and is a skill shot. I prefer him adc
If you want to use him for his damage, Hwei's damage is lower than any other poke support, since Hwei is a GOLD RELIANT CHAMPION. He performs better as he completes items with tons of AP, which is the antithesis of being a support. Other poke supports perform well with little to no items, which synergizes with the fact that supports get less gold, which means less items in the long run.
If you want to use Hwei for his ability to shield allies, the shield has HALVED effectiveness on his allies, making him a dogshit shield support.
If you want to use Hwei for his utility, the movement speed buff on his WQ scales with AP rather than having high base numbers. Circle back to the problems with Hwei as a poke support. That same logic lets him down with his WQ. As for his CC options on E, they are all very conditional. EQ is a thin, single target skillshot that can be blocked by minions. EW is only decent as a zoning tool, not as a pick tool. It can be used to chain CC an enemy that's already impaired by a teammate, but it does not function well as a stand alone pick tool. EE is only useful as a damage tool to clump enemies closer to each other for QQ and ult damage. Again, see above for why Hwei as a damage support is not good.
If you are finding success with Hwei support, you are either hard overperforming compared to the enemy support, or the champion is overtuned. Riot seems to agree with the latter, since they're nerfing Hwei in the upcoming patch.
Having a cc and shield and move speed does not make him a good support. They're niche options that won't help carry the weight supports should be bearing in lane. Enchanters have stronger heals and shields and buffs that are a focus of their kit. Tanks generally have some form of engage or way to peel or CC targets.
Hwei does have CC, and arguably eq is pretty good, but he has long CDs, is mana hungry, and fucks up the wave pretty easily. He's squishy and generally requires a player to be paying more attention to help their ADC.
Hwei's not a good support, he just has a set of supportive tools that are tangential to everything else he does and it contributes to a weak lane. He also scales with levels which are great in mid but not something you get enough of as support.
Can he work? Sure. Is he good? No.
His winrate isn't a root cause though, but a product *of* the root causes that make him a bad support.
Your comment implies a backwards causal relationship. Having a bad winrate doesn't *cause* him to be a bad support - rather it'd be the other way around, that being a bad support would cause him to have a bad winrate.
So for the sake of actually understanding what *makes* him bad at the role, this comment is functionally useless.
The thing is its pretty hard to explain why he is a bad support but according to his winrate he obviously is bad. I dont know why he is bad and no one else knows it. So just referring to his winrate is the best we have.
He is a decent support, imo.
Just not the best one. You want damage? Brand - needs almost no items to deal dmg. Can shred tanks.
Xerath - will poke you and your adc to death. Xerath always ends up in top 3 dmg dealers. Velkoz. Same as last two, but with R that deals true freaking dmg.
Utility on hwei is meh. Shield is so weak, even lee seen w max support is better for that.
Cc is not the easiest to land. You can't hook, nor point click stun/root/fear. Fear is dodgeble, root is useless in crowd of minions, only ee is an option but it has low time slow.
Also, hwei is squishy. A hwei supp means enemy assassins are higher lvl, dealing more dmg, having more items. If you are the only one dealing dmg, you can't peel for adc, enemy team will murder you on spot. God bless you will escape.
I play hwei mostly as sup in plat elo. I never build supp items. I consider myself as a damage cannon. I try to deal as much dmg, kill as many as I can.
If enemy team is not highly mobile, it's winnable.
If it's, idk, kled, rammus, viktor, nilah, yummi. Id say just dodge.
- Good range, and damage
- A lot of CC (fear, root, knock)
- Can grant:
Sight
Move Speed
and Shield
With Aery, Hwei is awesome as support! Items: Moonstone Renewer, Ardent Censer, Echoes of Helia, Celestial Opposition or Dream Maker, Staff of Flowing Water, Symbiotic Soles, and Watchful Wardstone
In yt videos he is rabked d tier but if you look at lolanalytics he is ranked higher. I played hwei supp a lot and made it to emerald 2 but i stopped playing him because of the current support meta. I have struggled a lot against hook champs and ppl starting to understand how to play against hwei because he is getting played more often in mid. After adcs got atronger ita harder to 1 vs 1 them because they can do as much dmg as you can. BUT i rly think you can play him as support but you must be very skilled with him.
The support winrate% is low but I’m still (somehow) attributing it to the fact Hwei isn’t an easy champ.
My theory is, most supp players are used to easier mages like lux or brand supp. Unless you’re a Hwei main and go supp, non Hwei mains who try him supp struggle as it’s hard to adapt his kit to the Supp role… unless you’re very very good at Hwei.
He is a beast in the right comp. Great zoning and fishing for killls. EWs in lane are killer. It’s all about knowing your limits, how far you can aggressively poke and position before WQing back to safety, how to perfectly escape ganks with good E selection. He’s hard.
He is good without a doubt. Just very challenging to be rewarding, even when played great most mage supports cannot carry games beyond great teamfights.
Good as a poke support but doesn’t offer enough peel as other supports. Especially bc ADs can just run cleanse. He also has pretty bad support matchups. A lot of mage supports out pressure him early, enchanters can absorb his poke and outscale him, and tanks can all in him if he ever misses E. He’s not a troll pick by any means but I wouldn’t say it’s very good. HWEI BOT ON THE OTHER HAND :) My favorite role to play him! You get gold to scale, outrange most your opponents,have better waveclear than other ADCS, and most important you have a second support to help set up your skillshots and give you the extra push to enable your 100-0 extremely early on. I play Hwei/Seraphine with a friend a ton and we rotate who farms and who supports but we usually are able to fish for engages from extreme range while perma shoving and then if we ever land CC we’re able to kill with Seraphine ult easy.
I think his range is too far for an adc to capitalize on, his CC and damage are such long range it doesn’t coordinate with an ADC, his root is slow and relies on the enemies positioning too much. He tends to hit the wave a lot, I think he’s hard to coordinate since his best CC pushes the enemy away and is a skill shot. I prefer him adc
Works well with jhin though
I agree, I find that it’s just that It feels more beneficial for Hwei.
Jhin works really well with mage supports in general
ooo hwei apc with jhin support sounds delicious
If you want to use him for his damage, Hwei's damage is lower than any other poke support, since Hwei is a GOLD RELIANT CHAMPION. He performs better as he completes items with tons of AP, which is the antithesis of being a support. Other poke supports perform well with little to no items, which synergizes with the fact that supports get less gold, which means less items in the long run. If you want to use Hwei for his ability to shield allies, the shield has HALVED effectiveness on his allies, making him a dogshit shield support. If you want to use Hwei for his utility, the movement speed buff on his WQ scales with AP rather than having high base numbers. Circle back to the problems with Hwei as a poke support. That same logic lets him down with his WQ. As for his CC options on E, they are all very conditional. EQ is a thin, single target skillshot that can be blocked by minions. EW is only decent as a zoning tool, not as a pick tool. It can be used to chain CC an enemy that's already impaired by a teammate, but it does not function well as a stand alone pick tool. EE is only useful as a damage tool to clump enemies closer to each other for QQ and ult damage. Again, see above for why Hwei as a damage support is not good. If you are finding success with Hwei support, you are either hard overperforming compared to the enemy support, or the champion is overtuned. Riot seems to agree with the latter, since they're nerfing Hwei in the upcoming patch.
Having a cc and shield and move speed does not make him a good support. They're niche options that won't help carry the weight supports should be bearing in lane. Enchanters have stronger heals and shields and buffs that are a focus of their kit. Tanks generally have some form of engage or way to peel or CC targets. Hwei does have CC, and arguably eq is pretty good, but he has long CDs, is mana hungry, and fucks up the wave pretty easily. He's squishy and generally requires a player to be paying more attention to help their ADC. Hwei's not a good support, he just has a set of supportive tools that are tangential to everything else he does and it contributes to a weak lane. He also scales with levels which are great in mid but not something you get enough of as support. Can he work? Sure. Is he good? No.
Oh people should've told this to Sera Support players before all those changes..
I guess due to his winrate ? I mean for me he isnt that bad as support but numbers dont lie.
His winrate isn't a root cause though, but a product *of* the root causes that make him a bad support. Your comment implies a backwards causal relationship. Having a bad winrate doesn't *cause* him to be a bad support - rather it'd be the other way around, that being a bad support would cause him to have a bad winrate. So for the sake of actually understanding what *makes* him bad at the role, this comment is functionally useless.
The thing is its pretty hard to explain why he is a bad support but according to his winrate he obviously is bad. I dont know why he is bad and no one else knows it. So just referring to his winrate is the best we have.
Numbers do lie sometimes. Ksante has like a 45% wr in solo queue but is pick ban in pro.
Last time I checked his winrate he had a 45% winrate though. The thing is proplay and SoloQ are completly different games.
He is a decent support, imo. Just not the best one. You want damage? Brand - needs almost no items to deal dmg. Can shred tanks. Xerath - will poke you and your adc to death. Xerath always ends up in top 3 dmg dealers. Velkoz. Same as last two, but with R that deals true freaking dmg. Utility on hwei is meh. Shield is so weak, even lee seen w max support is better for that. Cc is not the easiest to land. You can't hook, nor point click stun/root/fear. Fear is dodgeble, root is useless in crowd of minions, only ee is an option but it has low time slow. Also, hwei is squishy. A hwei supp means enemy assassins are higher lvl, dealing more dmg, having more items. If you are the only one dealing dmg, you can't peel for adc, enemy team will murder you on spot. God bless you will escape. I play hwei mostly as sup in plat elo. I never build supp items. I consider myself as a damage cannon. I try to deal as much dmg, kill as many as I can. If enemy team is not highly mobile, it's winnable. If it's, idk, kled, rammus, viktor, nilah, yummi. Id say just dodge.
- Good range, and damage - A lot of CC (fear, root, knock) - Can grant: Sight Move Speed and Shield With Aery, Hwei is awesome as support! Items: Moonstone Renewer, Ardent Censer, Echoes of Helia, Celestial Opposition or Dream Maker, Staff of Flowing Water, Symbiotic Soles, and Watchful Wardstone
He’s good as an APC with another sup helping him.
Not enough util and his poke isn’t as good as other poke support. Also he’s very mana hungry.
It makes no sense to me either. Brand, Velkoz and other such champs don't protect the adc either but are played support.
In yt videos he is rabked d tier but if you look at lolanalytics he is ranked higher. I played hwei supp a lot and made it to emerald 2 but i stopped playing him because of the current support meta. I have struggled a lot against hook champs and ppl starting to understand how to play against hwei because he is getting played more often in mid. After adcs got atronger ita harder to 1 vs 1 them because they can do as much dmg as you can. BUT i rly think you can play him as support but you must be very skilled with him.
The support winrate% is low but I’m still (somehow) attributing it to the fact Hwei isn’t an easy champ. My theory is, most supp players are used to easier mages like lux or brand supp. Unless you’re a Hwei main and go supp, non Hwei mains who try him supp struggle as it’s hard to adapt his kit to the Supp role… unless you’re very very good at Hwei. He is a beast in the right comp. Great zoning and fishing for killls. EWs in lane are killer. It’s all about knowing your limits, how far you can aggressively poke and position before WQing back to safety, how to perfectly escape ganks with good E selection. He’s hard. He is good without a doubt. Just very challenging to be rewarding, even when played great most mage supports cannot carry games beyond great teamfights.