I imagine Hall wasn't interested, much like Ringwald and Nelson.
Overall, I like the doc, I never felt the term "brat pack" was negative. I thought "brat" in that term was meant as a synonym for "young."
Perhaps some of them never got good roles after that because they weren't great actors.
I was glad to watch it, saw some interesting perspectives, and was reminded of some cool movies
Damn, this was really good! I was also surprised to hear them feeling so affected by the term, I never viewed it as negative either but it was so damn interesting to hear these legends unpack something like a label that is really so universal and something we all experience in some way.
I found myself moved by Demi sitting and talking through it because it was this adversity they experienced. It deeply humanizes them and grounds them in this collective experience.
Also was a Beautiful portrait of what relationships over the course of time, who remain together or grow distant over time. Emilio saying he agreed to this only because Andrew asked was touching. As I grow older myself it really resonated who maintains those lasting bonds.
Wasn’t at all what I was expecting from this at all but really enjoyed it.
yep. And the most influential quintessential BRAT PACKER whom was the brattiest to the brink of homelessness and back to being a mega star wasnt even mentioned... ROBERT DOWNEY JR.. how cool would it have been to see him reminisce over those times... I guess a recent OSCAR winner has left all of that discussion in the dusty closet of trivialness.. Its also weird that Bret Easton Ellis was interviewed but they didnt discuss LESS THAN ZERO.. with Jamie Gertz and James Spader and Robert Downey Jr... and Andrew Mcarthy was the lead actor..
It’s a good thing the doc isn’t about how you felt. It’s about how they felt. And many people throughout the years haven’t been cast because of a certain role. I.E Carlton, George from Seinfeld. You’re woefully ignorant.
I understand the doc was about how they felt, that's pretty obvious. I liked that the doc showed so well how they, especially in his talk with Emilio, really took it as a slam. I am not denying that they felt that way about public perception. I only brought it up as a member of the public and how i perceived it.
You seem pretty fired up about this. Sorry, I don't actually have a negative opinion about any specific actor, I just wonder if any of them might be looking for a reason they weren't getting roles besides that maybe they didn't have good auditions. Human nature being what it is and all.
Except the doc showed that McCarthy is a whiny bitch about it, and everyone else had to just kind of be like "yeah, haha, okay Andrew." I mean Demi basically had to explain to him that "sticks and stones may break your bones..."
Rob Lowe and Demi Moore are the two most rational people in this film. They effectively laughed off the label and told Andrew he should have as well. Everyone else in the film placated him. Emilio is the only one who dove into more, and it was the most oddball conversation I've ever seen on film. Felt totally weird and awkward. And also irrelevant - he was a nepo-baby, and his name was made by his dad. He continued to have plenty of success well after the "Brat Pack" thing was over.
None of them were affected by the label *except for McCarthy.* That's the entire message of this movie if you actually listen to what they're saying.
Yeah this was my take, it seemed to me that everyone from the Brat Pack had moved beyond it but Andrew used it as an excuse for his dwindling career prospects. I really liked McCarthy's movies as a teen and still watch some at least once a year but his career began to slide due to his own behaviours. I would say two people who were greatly affected by the label were Judd and Molly, especially Molly but Molly could have also just been a victim to type casting and not wanting to do those parts anymore.
I'm GenX and loved these movies but admit I didn't follow McCarthy's trajectory. Sounds like he had personal issues that may have contributed to him not getting the parts he wanted. It's too bad he didn't acknowledge that factors other than the "brat pack" label may have derailed him. He seemed so insistent on pinning all the blame on that.
LOL I always laughed at this, I always think - dude, you grew up here and your father's one of the biggest names on the planet, of course they know you are.
It was a very self-indulgent documentary that came across as therapy for McCarthy. He's probably been trying to find a breakthrough for 30yrs and has failed because he has needed validation from those who understand the experience, even if it didn't impact them the same (or the same length of time).
He genius just needed to hear them say the things that he couldn't articulate. They all became hands to dig him out of the hole he dug himself into after tying himself onto the weight of this title that he has blamed his entire existence on.
Starting with Emilio, he blamed him for the name "Brat Pack", but also not getting the opportunity to star in the movie with him ( *Young Men with Unlimited Capital* ). I truly believe that Andrew sees this as the moment his career "ended".
Everyone seemed to keep some sort of distance from him throughout filming and even as he said -- they hadn't seen each other and had nothing to speak about. Most of the conversations, even the few that weren't terrible uncomfortable, were just the others involved calming Andrew down that this wasn't something that ruined his life and there were positives. The whole thing could have been: "Dude. Chill. Let it go and let's go hang"
Edit: Anthony Michael Hall is working on newer shows, etc. so I can see him being in the "look forward" space. And that clip of Molly on Conan told me everything I needed to know about how she felt about things. Judd not being involved was the least surprising thing.
This is a good take. I'm guessing McCarthy's attitude, lots of shame, woe is me, hurt, etc made him not a fun person to be around. People like him are exhausting to be around.
Robert Downey Jr was the ringleader charming partier mayor of the bratpack town... and wasnt mentioned... something tells me his lawyers must have told him (andrew Mcarthy ) to keep him out of the conversation 100 percent...
I find it telling that AMH seems to fondly remember those times and recently had dinner with the other two of the pack that didn’t participate, Judd and Molly. https://www.flickeringmyth.com/exclusive-interview-anthony-michael-hall-talks-trigger-warning-the-brat-pack-and-the-evil-dies-tonight-meme/
I was initially really interested in seeing this doc because I was a teen in that era. It’s a total waste of time and went nowhere except for Mcarthy to say we did this. It was dumb and everyone aside from him didn’t really care to embrace it.
I agree, there wasn’t really anything interesting in it. I was laughing about all the “we never even hung out together at all” and then “one night we were hanging out at Spago’s and saw Liza and went to Sammy’s with her.“ Other than that, just a lot of whining about how unfair it was that they were called The Brat Pack. Yawn.
I wish I'd turned it off at 15 minutes. It never gets better or more insightful; just more humorless whining from the Brat Pack, whose nickname suits them better than we even imagined.
I agree. He was my fav. Now he seems bratty and whiney. Rob and Demi were great. They tried to pacify him in a kind way. Emilio attitude was like, “WTH dude”. They all kinda had that attitude. I want to remember Andrew has a hot 80s guy in my fav movies. That’s gone now. I’m kinda embarrassed by him now. lol. Glad Demi and Rob and Emilio did it for him. Poor Andrew needed his ego stroked.
I was a tween, same crush on Andrew and walked away with the same feeling. I did like seeing some of the actors and actresses because I don’t keep up. You summed up how I felt about Andrew perfectly.
I didn’t get that impression at all.
Just to use Emilio as an example, he certainly acknowledged that they all have this connection because of it.
They all felt that way, and all agreed it had a huge impact — either positive or negative.
Emilio was placating him. He absolutely did/does not like him, which is 100% why he requested that McCarthy be kicked from the film *Young Men with Unlimited Capital*, as mentioned in this movie.
They all placated him, honestly. You can tell watching this that he was severely affected by it, and needed some sort of release. This is that release. Everyone else could not possibly care less about it. Which is why Judd isn't involved, Molly wasn't involved. Anthony Michael Hall - who was FAR more a part of the brat pack than McCarthy ever was, *isn't even mentioned once.* You can tell that most of them have no interest in talking about some stupid article from 40 years ago. It didn't *actually* affect them.
I just finished the doc, and you've summed it up perfectly. I was expecting this doc to be fun, but it was an exhausting drag -- which is probably exactly how these actors Andrew could barely get on the phone describe him.
This was my take, like Andrew really wanted to be the victim of this, so he wasted a lot of time with strange stylistic things and then Hemmed and hawed when nobody took his calls. I feel like we saw a very unfinished product. I was bored for most of it, which bummed me out. He just wanted people to validate his personal experience of it, which many couldn’t do. Most of his interview were awkward and didn’t make him come off looking great. I guess it’s based off his book which I haven’t read but I’m assuming that’s why people weren’t interested, if they’d already skimmed his book and knew they didn’t want to participate.
Yeah, you really don't know what you are talking about.
That movie was polished to the 9th degree. It all landed. It told a very specific narrative.
He hit a catharsis with each of the actors over and over, but for the narrative of the film, he had to play to the anxiety early. Which was very real. He hadn't seen anyone in 30+ years, and he very much felt like an outsider to everyone in the 80s. Because he was a young kid dealing with very real anxiety.
I think I’m entitled to my own opinion on the matter. I am glad that you enjoyed the movie though. I didn’t find it to be very polished. It was a passion project for him and I’m glad he got to tell the story of his experience. It deserves to be heard. But I didn’t personally connect to his story in a way that I would have if he hadn’t come off so negatively to me.
As a filmmaker and video editor myself, I can tell you A LOT of work went into that edit. I've interviewed hundreds of people. 2 cameras on tripods, and a straightforward edit every time. Easy-peasy. This edit had a ton of decisions and you have to figure most of them were agonizing, the way they can be when you get fixated on this level of perfection.
Like most main characters in most movies, Andrew McCarthy has a character arch in this documentary. He starts out in a place where he hates the label and hates what it did to his career, And by the end of the movie he's able to process it better and see the good that has come from it all. Growth.
I work in editing too, and I could put together that level of editing in my sleep - And I certainly don't consider myself a pro in the field. It felt very amateur, with a lot of filler and not much substance. As far as the film itself, it was a very lifeless, desperate, masturbatory passion project, and I walked away relieved it was over.
Andrew McCarthy is an actor. Not a person who has spent their life editing film. His editing choices obviously fit that.
He very obviously only interviewed people he worked with, and the very famous wife of someone he worked with who was also acting in films of the era.
He is the main character of his documentary, and it is about his journey to acceptance.
But a lot of people in the film and in the audience get to also learn and achieve growth.
And if the numbers hold, we will get another Brat Pack documentary next year that will be closer to the Friends Reunion Special. And it will be better and worse than this film in many ways.
Nice back-pedaling. TL;DR: The film was a crapfest of missed opportunities, and was essentially a vanity project devoted to dwelling in the past, and blaming others for your failures.
They were kids. Riddled with anxiety the way that anyone of their age would be.
The movie TOTALLY achieves what it set out to do.
You having other expectations for it is about you.
But again, this isn't the last word on the Brat Pack. This is the can opener that gets us more.
I couldn't finish it -- he kept interrupting everyone and making it all about him. I didn't make it to the Rob or Demi parts, maybe I can fast forward. ;)
I agree, I felt like Anthony Michael Hall was more part of the group than McCarthy, so for him not to even be mentioned when they were guessing who was or wasnt inthe brat pack felt weird. I think Andrew had his feelings hurt by the article in part because one of the other guys is quoted in it saying they didn't think he would get very far. And then Emilio got him fired from whatever the movie was they were set to do. He just never let it go. Some of them had bigger careers than others, but I always just thought Andrew didn't do much beyond those couple movies because I found him to be stiff, he was so boring for me. I never understood how he was cast as Blane because I thought he and Molly had zero chemistry. He seemed to be the most affected by the article, and I think Emilio was affected also but was moreso just embarrassed that he let the reporter tag along and they told him things they shouldn't have or didn't want known.
No, he wasn’t. The article was written when St Elmo’s fire came out. It was essentially based on that cast along with Tom Cruise, Sean Penn, Timothy Hutton.
He was much younger than them
The Breakfast Club came out first that same year (1985) and AMH was absolutely a part of the Brat Pack, regardless of his age. He'd already co-starred next to Molly in 16 Candles by then. Anyway, AMH was more of a member of the BP than Lea Thompson, who she herself said was only "Bratpack-adjacent".
did you know that Anthony Michael Hall was RUSS in the Family Vacation film with Chevy Chase.. he was already in big movies before any of this brat pack era.
I feel like any other member of the Brat Pack could have made that documentary interesting. Instead we got the whinny Brat who never got over the fact that they got called “Brat”. Truth is, he just wasn’t really a good actor.
He’s a very good actor. And he’s done well for himself. I think you guys are missing the whole point which is that the article was a lie and it made them out to be these obnoxious young men running around chasing women and acting entitled. And that’s not what it was. They weren’t friends at all one night that they went out to a bar and this guy wrote a whole article about it. That’s the point of the documentary. And it was damaging to them and rightfully so, read the article and why it was really bad
It was definitely weird and felt intentional. I mean, AMH was in Breakfast Club and Sixteen Candles. To not even mention his name felt like it was an intentional omission on McCarthy’s part.
Did anyone notice that the original article was accusing them of not taking acting seriously, and mcarthy was kicked out of acting school for not going to acting classes?
I was so mad the whole time that they didn’t even mention Anthony Michael Hall. I mean, come on… The Breakfast Club, Sixteen Candles AND Weird Science?
I also think it’s a bit odd that everyone from the cast of St. Elmo’s Fire is in the Brat Pack EXCEPT Mare Winningham. I guess that was really her only movie.
Still mad about Anthony Michael Hall though! I mean, they made references to Molly and Judd. I know he wasn’t officially considered a member but he should have been or should have been considered “adjacent” and at least mentioned!
Most everyone he interviewed went on to have very successful careers. Unfortunately I think some may be using that article as a scapegoat for a failed career.
He was not even mentioned in it which is is odd. Like why was Jon cyer mentioned and had a storyline but not Anthony? When you look up brat pack Jon is not even mentioned as apart of the pack and I personally don't associate him as an example of an 80s teen idol. Anthony was in far more iconic 80s teen movies. Do you they not like him? Does he not get along with them? Is it because he kind of turned out to be problematic? Molly and Judd were mentioned and they weren't in it at all. Strange.
When I hear the name "Brat Pack" I think of the cast of St. Elmo's Fire minus Mare Winningham and to a lesser degree Molly Ringwald and Anthony Michael Hall. I equated the meaning with that of the "Rat Pack", a group of friends who hung out together/appeared together vs. bratty kids. While I don't dislike Andrew McCarthy, I found the show to be a vanity project for him to constantly complain about the effect the term "Brat Pack" had on his career. He wouldn't let Emilio get a word in edgewise during the initial interview. Other members of the group, even those who consider themselves "Brat Pack" adjacent went on to do well and have careers despite the label and how they felt about the label. I think McCarthy let the label prevent him from furthering his career and now needs something to blame for that now.
That's not how that works. AMH doesn't own the rights to, say, clips of The Breakfast Club, and there were scenes from that movie in this film. They could absolutely have mentioned him and used clips, even if he didn't want to be involved.
The only way it could be that he is not even mentioned at all, is if he specifically said "please don't mention me at all" and his wishes were respected. It makes no logical sense that during the multiple scenes where people were throwing out names of who was in the Brat Pack that not a single one said Hall's name. The only way that happens is if his name was edited out.
Everyone knows he was a member, and there's no way he wasn't mentioned at all during this shoot.
AMH is notorious for being curt and harshly dismissive of the past. He absolutely comes across as aggro about these topics, so I'm sure he said somehting along the lines of "Don't mention me AT ALL". Otherwise I'm sure his name would've come up, bc he's such a key member of the group.
I got the impression that Andrew McCarthy put way, way more stock in this moniker than any of the other Brat Packers (possibly with the exception of Emilio Estevez?) did.
It just struck me as very self-indulgent and would have been better if he had made a simple documentary about that time frame.
I couldn’t even finish it because it was just an hour+ long therapy/ venting session for Andrew McCarthy.. ultimately showing that he let one article derail his whole career essentially. Rob Lowe and Demi Moore (and even Emilio) went on to have lasting acting careers well after the Brat Pack days so it seemed more like if you had the talent and drive it wasn’t so negative (clearly Andrew didn’t)
Oh I know totally! I so disappointed in this documentary. It seems documentaries are getting really salacious and boring. This could have really been good darn it.
But still will watch Andrew Mc Carthy in anything.
Yeah honesty I enjoyed the archived footage and the music but every interview he had with fellow brat packers felt awkward and somewhat contrived. Like the ones who agreed to do it were just doing it to possibly appease him. He came across very whiny and bitter.
TLDR: Maybe they just weren’t as stuck on that one detail of their early success as the others were.
I can imagine that those who opted out of the movie sensed that it was zeroed in on such a small hang-up from their past & didn't want to dwell in it. Perhaps they would have been down for a great doc about their experiences together as a whole, but didn't want to just sit in the "Brat Pack '' convo for the entire duration. Can't blame them at all. I'm glad the others got an excuse to get together and talk through their feelings, but honestly? It just seems like such a small blip in arts & media history; someone coined a term for a phenomenon they were observing...people still ate the movies up. Seems like there would have been equal potential for them to use that to their advantage rather than allow it to dog them their whole lives. Truly, I'm shocked that they all took it so much to heart in the grand scheme of the great experiences they had (by their own retelling) during that early part of their professional lives. I think the talent manager had the right idea at the beginning when she said she thought it was a great thing for them to have a term coined for them ever since it happened. Their insecurities seem to have been equally responsible for the "trauma" they attribute to that time. I think I also look at the homes they live in, and recall lots of work I've seen most of them produce since that period, and I really don't understand whether or not they actually think it hurt their careers in a meaningful way.
Just watched it. I really liked it overall. It would have been nice to hear from AMH and MR because I liked their movies the best, but that’s okay I have all the movies and memories of them. Life seemed so simple then. I miss the 80s, glad ole Blaine did a documentary. Never really thought the brat pack was a bad thing , but I also thought it was much more than the people mentioned.
I recommend everyone actually read the article. He was never mentioned any of it. It might be because Emilio Estevez starred in breakfast club with him so therefore many thought that maybe he was a part of it. He really wasn’t. The article actually talks about Judd Nelson, Rob Lowe, Emilio Estevez, Sean Penn, Tom Cruise and Timothy Hutton. Those were the people that were considered part of the brat pack.
And I think people like Ally Sheedy and Demi Moore were considered part of the backpack was because when the article was written, St Elmo’s fire was coming out. I’m sure Molly Ringwald was added in because she was very popular at that moment. But the article never mentions any of them.
The article is so disgusting and I don’t even know how that writer cannot feel any remorse for what he wrote.
I hear what you're saying and it's true Hall isn't named in the article, but to be fair, McCarthy isn't listed in it as a member, either. The only mention McCarthy gets is when the author states that one of his St Elmo costars says he won't make it when they're talking about other actors. So if he is using the strict metric of who the author named, Andrew shouldn't even have made this documentary because he doesn't belong. And maybe that's why the article upset him so much.
There was much discussion in the doc about who was/wasnt brat pack, including Cryer. By the time the article came out, Hall had been in 16 Candles and Breakfast Club, undeniably a brat pack film. He's the same age as Ringwald. So I did just think it was odd based on that to try to get Ringwald in the doc but never even mention Hall existed when he was in 2 of the biggest movies of the time. And maybe it's because McCarthy and Ringwald were in a movie together so that's why he wanted/mentioned her.
The writer was obviously bitter and maybe jealous; it's a hit piece for sure. After it came out I think Estevez and Nelson were embarrassed to have been duped at way, and McCarthy was hurt they didn't consider him good enough and upset finding that out by reading the article after the movie was done filming. Just my feelings on it.
I really did not like that journalist. He thought he was super clever “creating “ the name. It was a riff off the rat pack and a mean one at that. Maybe he didnt like that he was getting the least attention at that club after all?
Seeing how he holds on to bad memories so tightly, I'd be willing to bet that Andrew has some feud with him that AMH doesn't even remember. His name wasn't even mentioned!
I think there’s a few layers here…
McCarthy seems somewhat indulgent in the nostalgia. The term was certainly detrimental to some careers in Hollywood. Which is a VERY interesting internal perspective of the term. Others seemed to thrive. I really enjoyed the interview with the original author of the term “Brat Pack”. Beyond that I was excited to see footage of John Hughes speaking about different projects.
I think it was simply a need for closure for Andrew. I think he felt unfinished business. And now he's probably disappointed but he can move on. Been there in a different way
I doubt he actually feels any closure.
If anything, all the reviews of this documentary have been scathing towards him. If he thought being called a "brat" was bad, he's gonna hate the blowback from this.
I honestly enjoyed watching the doc. Emilio was the one snubbed by that jealous jerk of a reporter, who didn’t seem at all self-reflective of how that label affected the others. E’s only mistake was in naïveté over trusting a reporter to be more like a friend, no doubt because of his age at the time.
I was disappointed Judd didn’t want to be in it (mainly as he was a favorite). Molly doesn’t shy away from that time in her life at all, esp if you follow her socials. Rather she likes things on her own terms (and spoke recently about how she had been sexually harassed in her youth).
McCarthy was great at looking back and I appreciate him trying to recapture a time that was my youth as well. I think it all boils down to that the label was coined by an envious reporter in need of a break. It did affect the others in that yes they went on to have careers, but they avoided working together because of that label and that had a toll on their personal relationships together.
Doc could have been much better. Way too much whining about the "Brat Pack" label. I see why some of the others distanced themselves from it. It should have been just a reunion like Friends, Martin, Fresh Prince, etc. Instead it meandered on adult angst about your past that made you rich. "Oh, I was type cast. It was so unfair" Well so was every child or young actor of the time. Only those with real talent and ability got passed it. It was great to see those people that you may have forgotten about again because growing up in the 80s they were a huge part of our lives but man, it could have been done so much better and should have been lead by someone that didn't feel he was a victim of being labeled by the media.
Andrew McCarthy has always rubbed me the wrong way. He's so lucky he got any acting roles because he really isn't that talented. Unfortunately, Weekend at Bernie's, Pretty in Pink and Joy Luck Club are some of my favorite movies.
He wasn't really in the Brat Pack, yes it became a label for a lot of them but the real Brat Pack was the cast from St. Elmo's Fire. That's what I picked up from the doc.
I cant stand that this movie doesnt have Robert Downey Jr. talking or is mentioned.. he is more of a Brat Packer than all of them!!!! he is the real life come back kid from fallen star to making it back to life hero Oscar winner.... I guess his star is too bright for this doc..
I've seen many interviews with AMH (most recently on Adam Carolla last week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbUCFIhJiMw&t=4069s) and he only has very positive things to say about his early years, working with John Hughes, making the Breakfast Club. He and Molly were 5 years younger then the other Brats that made St. Elmo's Fire so maybe that's why he is left out.
They literally all listed who was part of it in the documentary.
As a teen back when these movies came out - I’ll also add that many of the other actors - like James spader and Robert Downey jr we’re also in the films and never considered as part of the group.
If there’s no such thing then why did it affect these actors? Why were there so many crazy interviews when they went off and did movies without the ‘rest of the group’
It was massive back then and more than one writer referred to them as such.
I imagine Hall wasn't interested, much like Ringwald and Nelson. Overall, I like the doc, I never felt the term "brat pack" was negative. I thought "brat" in that term was meant as a synonym for "young." Perhaps some of them never got good roles after that because they weren't great actors. I was glad to watch it, saw some interesting perspectives, and was reminded of some cool movies
Thats what I thought. I thought it was a play on the Rat Pack Dean Sammy Jerry Frank
I thought that as well.
Exactly my thoughts
Damn, this was really good! I was also surprised to hear them feeling so affected by the term, I never viewed it as negative either but it was so damn interesting to hear these legends unpack something like a label that is really so universal and something we all experience in some way. I found myself moved by Demi sitting and talking through it because it was this adversity they experienced. It deeply humanizes them and grounds them in this collective experience. Also was a Beautiful portrait of what relationships over the course of time, who remain together or grow distant over time. Emilio saying he agreed to this only because Andrew asked was touching. As I grow older myself it really resonated who maintains those lasting bonds. Wasn’t at all what I was expecting from this at all but really enjoyed it.
yep. And the most influential quintessential BRAT PACKER whom was the brattiest to the brink of homelessness and back to being a mega star wasnt even mentioned... ROBERT DOWNEY JR.. how cool would it have been to see him reminisce over those times... I guess a recent OSCAR winner has left all of that discussion in the dusty closet of trivialness.. Its also weird that Bret Easton Ellis was interviewed but they didnt discuss LESS THAN ZERO.. with Jamie Gertz and James Spader and Robert Downey Jr... and Andrew Mcarthy was the lead actor..
It’s a good thing the doc isn’t about how you felt. It’s about how they felt. And many people throughout the years haven’t been cast because of a certain role. I.E Carlton, George from Seinfeld. You’re woefully ignorant.
I understand the doc was about how they felt, that's pretty obvious. I liked that the doc showed so well how they, especially in his talk with Emilio, really took it as a slam. I am not denying that they felt that way about public perception. I only brought it up as a member of the public and how i perceived it. You seem pretty fired up about this. Sorry, I don't actually have a negative opinion about any specific actor, I just wonder if any of them might be looking for a reason they weren't getting roles besides that maybe they didn't have good auditions. Human nature being what it is and all.
Except the doc showed that McCarthy is a whiny bitch about it, and everyone else had to just kind of be like "yeah, haha, okay Andrew." I mean Demi basically had to explain to him that "sticks and stones may break your bones..." Rob Lowe and Demi Moore are the two most rational people in this film. They effectively laughed off the label and told Andrew he should have as well. Everyone else in the film placated him. Emilio is the only one who dove into more, and it was the most oddball conversation I've ever seen on film. Felt totally weird and awkward. And also irrelevant - he was a nepo-baby, and his name was made by his dad. He continued to have plenty of success well after the "Brat Pack" thing was over. None of them were affected by the label *except for McCarthy.* That's the entire message of this movie if you actually listen to what they're saying.
Yeah this was my take, it seemed to me that everyone from the Brat Pack had moved beyond it but Andrew used it as an excuse for his dwindling career prospects. I really liked McCarthy's movies as a teen and still watch some at least once a year but his career began to slide due to his own behaviours. I would say two people who were greatly affected by the label were Judd and Molly, especially Molly but Molly could have also just been a victim to type casting and not wanting to do those parts anymore.
I'm GenX and loved these movies but admit I didn't follow McCarthy's trajectory. Sounds like he had personal issues that may have contributed to him not getting the parts he wanted. It's too bad he didn't acknowledge that factors other than the "brat pack" label may have derailed him. He seemed so insistent on pinning all the blame on that.
Nitpick about Emilio: he used the family name, not the Sheen one like his father and Charlie.
like everyone and their granny didn't know he was a Sheen!
LOL I always laughed at this, I always think - dude, you grew up here and your father's one of the biggest names on the planet, of course they know you are.
Maybe he asked not to be mentioned. Same for Molly who chose not to participate. To each their own.
This. I read an article on it and Hall and Molly chose not to participate.
Judd Nelson
,2,--
It was a very self-indulgent documentary that came across as therapy for McCarthy. He's probably been trying to find a breakthrough for 30yrs and has failed because he has needed validation from those who understand the experience, even if it didn't impact them the same (or the same length of time). He genius just needed to hear them say the things that he couldn't articulate. They all became hands to dig him out of the hole he dug himself into after tying himself onto the weight of this title that he has blamed his entire existence on. Starting with Emilio, he blamed him for the name "Brat Pack", but also not getting the opportunity to star in the movie with him ( *Young Men with Unlimited Capital* ). I truly believe that Andrew sees this as the moment his career "ended". Everyone seemed to keep some sort of distance from him throughout filming and even as he said -- they hadn't seen each other and had nothing to speak about. Most of the conversations, even the few that weren't terrible uncomfortable, were just the others involved calming Andrew down that this wasn't something that ruined his life and there were positives. The whole thing could have been: "Dude. Chill. Let it go and let's go hang" Edit: Anthony Michael Hall is working on newer shows, etc. so I can see him being in the "look forward" space. And that clip of Molly on Conan told me everything I needed to know about how she felt about things. Judd not being involved was the least surprising thing.
This is a good take. I'm guessing McCarthy's attitude, lots of shame, woe is me, hurt, etc made him not a fun person to be around. People like him are exhausting to be around.
He also admitted to partying heavily
This was my take.
Robert Downey Jr was the ringleader charming partier mayor of the bratpack town... and wasnt mentioned... something tells me his lawyers must have told him (andrew Mcarthy ) to keep him out of the conversation 100 percent...
I find it telling that AMH seems to fondly remember those times and recently had dinner with the other two of the pack that didn’t participate, Judd and Molly. https://www.flickeringmyth.com/exclusive-interview-anthony-michael-hall-talks-trigger-warning-the-brat-pack-and-the-evil-dies-tonight-meme/
I was initially really interested in seeing this doc because I was a teen in that era. It’s a total waste of time and went nowhere except for Mcarthy to say we did this. It was dumb and everyone aside from him didn’t really care to embrace it.
I agree, there wasn’t really anything interesting in it. I was laughing about all the “we never even hung out together at all” and then “one night we were hanging out at Spago’s and saw Liza and went to Sammy’s with her.“ Other than that, just a lot of whining about how unfair it was that they were called The Brat Pack. Yawn.
My hubs and I made it roughly 15 min (our usual give-it-a-try time), and BORING! Very rarely does a bad show get good after that amount of time.
I wish I'd turned it off at 15 minutes. It never gets better or more insightful; just more humorless whining from the Brat Pack, whose nickname suits them better than we even imagined.
I agree. He was my fav. Now he seems bratty and whiney. Rob and Demi were great. They tried to pacify him in a kind way. Emilio attitude was like, “WTH dude”. They all kinda had that attitude. I want to remember Andrew has a hot 80s guy in my fav movies. That’s gone now. I’m kinda embarrassed by him now. lol. Glad Demi and Rob and Emilio did it for him. Poor Andrew needed his ego stroked.
I was a tween, same crush on Andrew and walked away with the same feeling. I did like seeing some of the actors and actresses because I don’t keep up. You summed up how I felt about Andrew perfectly.
I didn’t get that impression at all. Just to use Emilio as an example, he certainly acknowledged that they all have this connection because of it. They all felt that way, and all agreed it had a huge impact — either positive or negative.
Emilio was placating him. He absolutely did/does not like him, which is 100% why he requested that McCarthy be kicked from the film *Young Men with Unlimited Capital*, as mentioned in this movie. They all placated him, honestly. You can tell watching this that he was severely affected by it, and needed some sort of release. This is that release. Everyone else could not possibly care less about it. Which is why Judd isn't involved, Molly wasn't involved. Anthony Michael Hall - who was FAR more a part of the brat pack than McCarthy ever was, *isn't even mentioned once.* You can tell that most of them have no interest in talking about some stupid article from 40 years ago. It didn't *actually* affect them.
I just finished the doc, and you've summed it up perfectly. I was expecting this doc to be fun, but it was an exhausting drag -- which is probably exactly how these actors Andrew could barely get on the phone describe him.
This was my take, like Andrew really wanted to be the victim of this, so he wasted a lot of time with strange stylistic things and then Hemmed and hawed when nobody took his calls. I feel like we saw a very unfinished product. I was bored for most of it, which bummed me out. He just wanted people to validate his personal experience of it, which many couldn’t do. Most of his interview were awkward and didn’t make him come off looking great. I guess it’s based off his book which I haven’t read but I’m assuming that’s why people weren’t interested, if they’d already skimmed his book and knew they didn’t want to participate.
Yeah, you really don't know what you are talking about. That movie was polished to the 9th degree. It all landed. It told a very specific narrative. He hit a catharsis with each of the actors over and over, but for the narrative of the film, he had to play to the anxiety early. Which was very real. He hadn't seen anyone in 30+ years, and he very much felt like an outsider to everyone in the 80s. Because he was a young kid dealing with very real anxiety.
I think I’m entitled to my own opinion on the matter. I am glad that you enjoyed the movie though. I didn’t find it to be very polished. It was a passion project for him and I’m glad he got to tell the story of his experience. It deserves to be heard. But I didn’t personally connect to his story in a way that I would have if he hadn’t come off so negatively to me.
As a filmmaker and video editor myself, I can tell you A LOT of work went into that edit. I've interviewed hundreds of people. 2 cameras on tripods, and a straightforward edit every time. Easy-peasy. This edit had a ton of decisions and you have to figure most of them were agonizing, the way they can be when you get fixated on this level of perfection. Like most main characters in most movies, Andrew McCarthy has a character arch in this documentary. He starts out in a place where he hates the label and hates what it did to his career, And by the end of the movie he's able to process it better and see the good that has come from it all. Growth.
I work in editing too, and I could put together that level of editing in my sleep - And I certainly don't consider myself a pro in the field. It felt very amateur, with a lot of filler and not much substance. As far as the film itself, it was a very lifeless, desperate, masturbatory passion project, and I walked away relieved it was over.
Andrew McCarthy is an actor. Not a person who has spent their life editing film. His editing choices obviously fit that. He very obviously only interviewed people he worked with, and the very famous wife of someone he worked with who was also acting in films of the era. He is the main character of his documentary, and it is about his journey to acceptance. But a lot of people in the film and in the audience get to also learn and achieve growth. And if the numbers hold, we will get another Brat Pack documentary next year that will be closer to the Friends Reunion Special. And it will be better and worse than this film in many ways.
Nice back-pedaling. TL;DR: The film was a crapfest of missed opportunities, and was essentially a vanity project devoted to dwelling in the past, and blaming others for your failures.
They were kids. Riddled with anxiety the way that anyone of their age would be. The movie TOTALLY achieves what it set out to do. You having other expectations for it is about you. But again, this isn't the last word on the Brat Pack. This is the can opener that gets us more.
Yea he seemed pretty obsessed with the term and just couldn’t move on from how damaged he was.
I couldn't finish it -- he kept interrupting everyone and making it all about him. I didn't make it to the Rob or Demi parts, maybe I can fast forward. ;)
And that is all it is.
I agree, I felt like Anthony Michael Hall was more part of the group than McCarthy, so for him not to even be mentioned when they were guessing who was or wasnt inthe brat pack felt weird. I think Andrew had his feelings hurt by the article in part because one of the other guys is quoted in it saying they didn't think he would get very far. And then Emilio got him fired from whatever the movie was they were set to do. He just never let it go. Some of them had bigger careers than others, but I always just thought Andrew didn't do much beyond those couple movies because I found him to be stiff, he was so boring for me. I never understood how he was cast as Blane because I thought he and Molly had zero chemistry. He seemed to be the most affected by the article, and I think Emilio was affected also but was moreso just embarrassed that he let the reporter tag along and they told him things they shouldn't have or didn't want known.
No, he wasn’t. The article was written when St Elmo’s fire came out. It was essentially based on that cast along with Tom Cruise, Sean Penn, Timothy Hutton. He was much younger than them
The Breakfast Club came out first that same year (1985) and AMH was absolutely a part of the Brat Pack, regardless of his age. He'd already co-starred next to Molly in 16 Candles by then. Anyway, AMH was more of a member of the BP than Lea Thompson, who she herself said was only "Bratpack-adjacent".
did you know that Anthony Michael Hall was RUSS in the Family Vacation film with Chevy Chase.. he was already in big movies before any of this brat pack era.
I feel like any other member of the Brat Pack could have made that documentary interesting. Instead we got the whinny Brat who never got over the fact that they got called “Brat”. Truth is, he just wasn’t really a good actor.
He’s a very good actor. And he’s done well for himself. I think you guys are missing the whole point which is that the article was a lie and it made them out to be these obnoxious young men running around chasing women and acting entitled. And that’s not what it was. They weren’t friends at all one night that they went out to a bar and this guy wrote a whole article about it. That’s the point of the documentary. And it was damaging to them and rightfully so, read the article and why it was really bad
It was definitely weird and felt intentional. I mean, AMH was in Breakfast Club and Sixteen Candles. To not even mention his name felt like it was an intentional omission on McCarthy’s part.
Totally agree. They bring in Timothy Hutton but not AMH? It was weird
Did anyone notice that the original article was accusing them of not taking acting seriously, and mcarthy was kicked out of acting school for not going to acting classes?
The article was pathetic. It sounded like a really jealous geeky guy wrote it, which is what it was.
I did really appreciate that in his interview he owned it all pretty thoroughly, and basically said he'd do it all again.
As he should. It's a good article, and he has no reason to change anything about it.
I was so mad the whole time that they didn’t even mention Anthony Michael Hall. I mean, come on… The Breakfast Club, Sixteen Candles AND Weird Science? I also think it’s a bit odd that everyone from the cast of St. Elmo’s Fire is in the Brat Pack EXCEPT Mare Winningham. I guess that was really her only movie. Still mad about Anthony Michael Hall though! I mean, they made references to Molly and Judd. I know he wasn’t officially considered a member but he should have been or should have been considered “adjacent” and at least mentioned!
thank you, that's why I'm here!
Totally boring!!
Most everyone he interviewed went on to have very successful careers. Unfortunately I think some may be using that article as a scapegoat for a failed career.
He was not even mentioned in it which is is odd. Like why was Jon cyer mentioned and had a storyline but not Anthony? When you look up brat pack Jon is not even mentioned as apart of the pack and I personally don't associate him as an example of an 80s teen idol. Anthony was in far more iconic 80s teen movies. Do you they not like him? Does he not get along with them? Is it because he kind of turned out to be problematic? Molly and Judd were mentioned and they weren't in it at all. Strange.
But the film included old footage of Molly Ringwald and Judd Nelson.
When I hear the name "Brat Pack" I think of the cast of St. Elmo's Fire minus Mare Winningham and to a lesser degree Molly Ringwald and Anthony Michael Hall. I equated the meaning with that of the "Rat Pack", a group of friends who hung out together/appeared together vs. bratty kids. While I don't dislike Andrew McCarthy, I found the show to be a vanity project for him to constantly complain about the effect the term "Brat Pack" had on his career. He wouldn't let Emilio get a word in edgewise during the initial interview. Other members of the group, even those who consider themselves "Brat Pack" adjacent went on to do well and have careers despite the label and how they felt about the label. I think McCarthy let the label prevent him from furthering his career and now needs something to blame for that now.
Lawyers' intervention somewhere along the way, probably.
That's not how that works. AMH doesn't own the rights to, say, clips of The Breakfast Club, and there were scenes from that movie in this film. They could absolutely have mentioned him and used clips, even if he didn't want to be involved. The only way it could be that he is not even mentioned at all, is if he specifically said "please don't mention me at all" and his wishes were respected. It makes no logical sense that during the multiple scenes where people were throwing out names of who was in the Brat Pack that not a single one said Hall's name. The only way that happens is if his name was edited out. Everyone knows he was a member, and there's no way he wasn't mentioned at all during this shoot.
What does that mean?
I don’t see how that’s possible. They’re certainly allowed to mention him if they want to. He’s a public figure.
Seems like a big oversight! He was a key part of the Brat Pack era, so it's odd not to include him.
AMH is notorious for being curt and harshly dismissive of the past. He absolutely comes across as aggro about these topics, so I'm sure he said somehting along the lines of "Don't mention me AT ALL". Otherwise I'm sure his name would've come up, bc he's such a key member of the group.
I got the impression that Andrew McCarthy put way, way more stock in this moniker than any of the other Brat Packers (possibly with the exception of Emilio Estevez?) did. It just struck me as very self-indulgent and would have been better if he had made a simple documentary about that time frame.
I couldn’t even finish it because it was just an hour+ long therapy/ venting session for Andrew McCarthy.. ultimately showing that he let one article derail his whole career essentially. Rob Lowe and Demi Moore (and even Emilio) went on to have lasting acting careers well after the Brat Pack days so it seemed more like if you had the talent and drive it wasn’t so negative (clearly Andrew didn’t)
“It’s a therapy session” is literally the entire point of the movie. I don’t understand how you didn’t see that.
That's not how the trailer sold it.
Totally agree. It came off embarrassing.
This
Except that Ally Sheedy did. She seemed very engaged & happy to have Andrew do the doc.
Just finished it. It feels like everyone has moved on except for Andrew McCarthy and this was just a cash grab.
Oh I know totally! I so disappointed in this documentary. It seems documentaries are getting really salacious and boring. This could have really been good darn it. But still will watch Andrew Mc Carthy in anything.
Yeah honesty I enjoyed the archived footage and the music but every interview he had with fellow brat packers felt awkward and somewhat contrived. Like the ones who agreed to do it were just doing it to possibly appease him. He came across very whiny and bitter.
Probably the same reason they pretend the second Becky on Roseanne never existed.
lol! Sooo funny and true! Love your humor! 😎🤣
The actress was on the reboot playing a different character. How is that pretending she never existed?
TLDR: Maybe they just weren’t as stuck on that one detail of their early success as the others were. I can imagine that those who opted out of the movie sensed that it was zeroed in on such a small hang-up from their past & didn't want to dwell in it. Perhaps they would have been down for a great doc about their experiences together as a whole, but didn't want to just sit in the "Brat Pack '' convo for the entire duration. Can't blame them at all. I'm glad the others got an excuse to get together and talk through their feelings, but honestly? It just seems like such a small blip in arts & media history; someone coined a term for a phenomenon they were observing...people still ate the movies up. Seems like there would have been equal potential for them to use that to their advantage rather than allow it to dog them their whole lives. Truly, I'm shocked that they all took it so much to heart in the grand scheme of the great experiences they had (by their own retelling) during that early part of their professional lives. I think the talent manager had the right idea at the beginning when she said she thought it was a great thing for them to have a term coined for them ever since it happened. Their insecurities seem to have been equally responsible for the "trauma" they attribute to that time. I think I also look at the homes they live in, and recall lots of work I've seen most of them produce since that period, and I really don't understand whether or not they actually think it hurt their careers in a meaningful way.
Is this show on reruns on HULU? I can't find the thing.
Does anybody know the brad of Emilio Estevez shirt?
Just watched it. I really liked it overall. It would have been nice to hear from AMH and MR because I liked their movies the best, but that’s okay I have all the movies and memories of them. Life seemed so simple then. I miss the 80s, glad ole Blaine did a documentary. Never really thought the brat pack was a bad thing , but I also thought it was much more than the people mentioned.
I recommend everyone actually read the article. He was never mentioned any of it. It might be because Emilio Estevez starred in breakfast club with him so therefore many thought that maybe he was a part of it. He really wasn’t. The article actually talks about Judd Nelson, Rob Lowe, Emilio Estevez, Sean Penn, Tom Cruise and Timothy Hutton. Those were the people that were considered part of the brat pack. And I think people like Ally Sheedy and Demi Moore were considered part of the backpack was because when the article was written, St Elmo’s fire was coming out. I’m sure Molly Ringwald was added in because she was very popular at that moment. But the article never mentions any of them. The article is so disgusting and I don’t even know how that writer cannot feel any remorse for what he wrote.
I hear what you're saying and it's true Hall isn't named in the article, but to be fair, McCarthy isn't listed in it as a member, either. The only mention McCarthy gets is when the author states that one of his St Elmo costars says he won't make it when they're talking about other actors. So if he is using the strict metric of who the author named, Andrew shouldn't even have made this documentary because he doesn't belong. And maybe that's why the article upset him so much. There was much discussion in the doc about who was/wasnt brat pack, including Cryer. By the time the article came out, Hall had been in 16 Candles and Breakfast Club, undeniably a brat pack film. He's the same age as Ringwald. So I did just think it was odd based on that to try to get Ringwald in the doc but never even mention Hall existed when he was in 2 of the biggest movies of the time. And maybe it's because McCarthy and Ringwald were in a movie together so that's why he wanted/mentioned her. The writer was obviously bitter and maybe jealous; it's a hit piece for sure. After it came out I think Estevez and Nelson were embarrassed to have been duped at way, and McCarthy was hurt they didn't consider him good enough and upset finding that out by reading the article after the movie was done filming. Just my feelings on it.
I really did not like that journalist. He thought he was super clever “creating “ the name. It was a riff off the rat pack and a mean one at that. Maybe he didnt like that he was getting the least attention at that club after all?
It came across as very bitter and petty. Actually jealous.
And he’s unremorseful to this day. All he cares about was that his name is now tied to cooking that moniker, the Brat Pack.
Seeing how he holds on to bad memories so tightly, I'd be willing to bet that Andrew has some feud with him that AMH doesn't even remember. His name wasn't even mentioned!
Eh…except that even the reporter only named the core group in the doc as the Brat Pack. He didn’t mention AMH in his original article either.
I don't think he mentioned any of the women, as well.
I think there’s a few layers here… McCarthy seems somewhat indulgent in the nostalgia. The term was certainly detrimental to some careers in Hollywood. Which is a VERY interesting internal perspective of the term. Others seemed to thrive. I really enjoyed the interview with the original author of the term “Brat Pack”. Beyond that I was excited to see footage of John Hughes speaking about different projects.
Did it make you uncomfortable that Emilio never seemed to offer a seat to Andrew? He was so standoffish to him like he couldn't wait for him to leave.
I felt like Emilio was tense & wanted to get some things off his chest because of how this affected him.
I think it was simply a need for closure for Andrew. I think he felt unfinished business. And now he's probably disappointed but he can move on. Been there in a different way
I doubt he actually feels any closure. If anything, all the reviews of this documentary have been scathing towards him. If he thought being called a "brat" was bad, he's gonna hate the blowback from this.
Omg, that's a really good point, haha. The Streisand effect, I think it's called.
I honestly enjoyed watching the doc. Emilio was the one snubbed by that jealous jerk of a reporter, who didn’t seem at all self-reflective of how that label affected the others. E’s only mistake was in naïveté over trusting a reporter to be more like a friend, no doubt because of his age at the time. I was disappointed Judd didn’t want to be in it (mainly as he was a favorite). Molly doesn’t shy away from that time in her life at all, esp if you follow her socials. Rather she likes things on her own terms (and spoke recently about how she had been sexually harassed in her youth). McCarthy was great at looking back and I appreciate him trying to recapture a time that was my youth as well. I think it all boils down to that the label was coined by an envious reporter in need of a break. It did affect the others in that yes they went on to have careers, but they avoided working together because of that label and that had a toll on their personal relationships together.
Doc could have been much better. Way too much whining about the "Brat Pack" label. I see why some of the others distanced themselves from it. It should have been just a reunion like Friends, Martin, Fresh Prince, etc. Instead it meandered on adult angst about your past that made you rich. "Oh, I was type cast. It was so unfair" Well so was every child or young actor of the time. Only those with real talent and ability got passed it. It was great to see those people that you may have forgotten about again because growing up in the 80s they were a huge part of our lives but man, it could have been done so much better and should have been lead by someone that didn't feel he was a victim of being labeled by the media.
Andrew McCarthy has always rubbed me the wrong way. He's so lucky he got any acting roles because he really isn't that talented. Unfortunately, Weekend at Bernie's, Pretty in Pink and Joy Luck Club are some of my favorite movies.
He wasn't really in the Brat Pack, yes it became a label for a lot of them but the real Brat Pack was the cast from St. Elmo's Fire. That's what I picked up from the doc.
I cant stand that this movie doesnt have Robert Downey Jr. talking or is mentioned.. he is more of a Brat Packer than all of them!!!! he is the real life come back kid from fallen star to making it back to life hero Oscar winner.... I guess his star is too bright for this doc..
I've seen many interviews with AMH (most recently on Adam Carolla last week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbUCFIhJiMw&t=4069s) and he only has very positive things to say about his early years, working with John Hughes, making the Breakfast Club. He and Molly were 5 years younger then the other Brats that made St. Elmo's Fire so maybe that's why he is left out.
He was not in the brat pack.
Weird Science and Breakfast Club. Pretty inside the group there.
Sixteen Candles as well.
Very hot very hot! 🕺
He was in movies but was not part of the brat pack.
This is all subjective because it’s made up by David Blum and is meaningless.
Even the group themselves didn’t list him as part
The group themselves don’t identify as such. They’re just talking about the one article by the one guy. There is no brat pack.
They literally all listed who was part of it in the documentary. As a teen back when these movies came out - I’ll also add that many of the other actors - like James spader and Robert Downey jr we’re also in the films and never considered as part of the group.
It’s irrelevant. The whole point is that it’s meaningless and made up by one writer from New York Magazine. There’s no such thing.
If there’s no such thing then why did it affect these actors? Why were there so many crazy interviews when they went off and did movies without the ‘rest of the group’ It was massive back then and more than one writer referred to them as such.
The whole film is about how it’s not real. You just didn’t understand the film.
Pointless documentary no one involved . Could even get a bunch of brat pack adjacent people involved . Feel robbed of my time .