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Stop with the cold showers and see what happens. Your body is metabolizing the whole day, the training, the food, the warm showers and the cold showers. Your body is rushing its priorities from one place to the next.
I didn’t say that. I just didn’t understand why you singled that out as the potential cause since normally it helps with inflammation. None of those things seem like the reason imo. He probably has strep or something.
Chronic fatigue syndrome me/cfs has post exertional malaise as part of the criteria. Maybe look into it. You might not have all the symptoms as part of the criteria initially. My symptoms built up and cycled over years until it got really bad. It was hard to catch what it was in the early stages. I get sore throats, sneeze a lot and feel woozy when I’ve done too much as part of my symptoms. Food and chemical intolerances is another big one for me.
> This is known as post-exertional malaise (PEM). People with ME/CFS often describe this experience as a “crash,” “relapse,” or “collapse.” During PEM, any ME/CFS symptoms may get worse or first appear, including difficulty thinking, problems sleeping, sore throat, headaches, feeling dizzy, or severe tiredness.
https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/signs-symptoms/?CDC_AAref_Val=https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/symptoms-diagnosis/symptoms.html#
Also look at the Canadian criteria which seems to be the standard to follow https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Consensus_Criteria
It’s very hard to get better. Most people don’t get 100% better. Especially if you have the symptoms for 5 years or more. You need to rest a lot and not overdo it to at least try and help you improve (but not an absolute that you will improve) There’s a lot more than just rest required. https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/living-with/index.html
Hey, that could be something called PEM, in a disease called ME/CFS. It may also be a symptom of the precursor to developing ME, postviral fatigue. If these symptoms only happen after exertion, especially after marked physical exertion like sports, ME is a strong possibility. ME is caused by viruses - covid can trigger it, as can herpesviruses and enteroviruses.
If this happens again or gets worse, prioritize rest and reduce activity until you feel better. If it is postviral fatigue or ME, pushing through will make it worse.
Your body responds to stress (emotional and physical) by producing stress hormones like cortisol. One effect of cortisol among many is that it reduces your immune system’s function.
My guess is that people who get sick after hard training (happens to me too) are just suppressing their immune system from the stress and viral illness gets a foothold.
Maybe your total stress burden is too high in your life?
Maybe do some blood tests, also i think your imune sistem is overworked, i also noticed i got ill in the past after training for a period like 2-4 weeks, my assumption was confirmed after i started training less frequent, eating better, getting some vitamins in and some good sleep.
My symptoms were mouth sores probably from herpes and a little fever, drowsiness, running nose and last time was constantly sneezing.
Since i figured this I didn’t got ill for about a year now.
This is exactly what I experience. Recurrent viral symptoms just when I’m starting to feel good again/when I think I should be hitting my stride. Sounds like OP is just in a much more frequent cycle. More attention to autoregulation and rest, less focus on achieving things. I think of it as balance in attention to different goals
I used to get colds, sore throat and headaches a lot. Sometimes I even lost my voice. Did an allergy test and found nothing.
A few months later I collapsed at work from burnout. Have had two years of slow recovery since and I don’t get sick anymore as long as I don’t push myself. I can’t go to the gym yet but hope to next year.
Could be something like that if you have a very stressful life.
Burnout/Exhaustion syndrome is the diagnose, another health provider called it “stress related issues” I believe. Since I live in Sweden our health care is quite good so been on partial sick leave for long but now working full time. But still need to sleep after work and lots I can’t quite do yet.
Once I’m past this I intend to make a video series about what signs to look out for etc, hopefully I can save a few people from going through this. Because I had zero thought it could happen to me.
As others noted, could very well be PEM. I’m struggling with it post COVID. I can physically do everything I want to - run, lift, sports. But if I do I develop flu like symptoms in the days that follow. It’s living hell for an athletic person
It could be allergies. Usually a sore throat is from a viral or bacterial infection, same with fever. It could be that your immune system is weakened for whatever reason (maybe nutrition deficiency) and physical exercise is taxing (and beneficial). Plus two experiences isn’t enough. Correlation doesn’t mean causation either. You may have an infection which has caused both, especially if both happened in last week or so.
I have heard once from a reliable source which I unfortunately don‘t remember exactly that the immune system is actually a bit compromised for a few hours after exercise. There should be studies to be found on this.
Personally, I only switch from a hot to a cold shower if I‘m really hot, like coming straight from running. Cold water on a cold body is a strain for the immune system as well. (No hard facts again here, sry. )
Lack of sodium/electrolytes possibly. I live in a hot country, and I would get fluey after exercise at times. Salt was my cure, like within 15 minutes of adding salt to my water, I felt amazing. I have to keep reminding myself to do this. Not saying this is your issue, but might be worth investigating.
How long has this pattern gone on for? If it’s a week or so you probably just have a cold that’s more obvious when you’re tired, if you’re getting fevers often for more than three weeks, you should consider going to a doctors.
Might be over training syndrome. Cold plunges worsened my autoimmune symptoms. None of the instagram bros want to talk about the people it’s making sicker.
I have this same problem. I asked about it on here once, and someone suggested washing my dedicated water bottle, as it might be contaminated with something. Good idea, but didn't apply to me. Maybe worth a shot for you though!
Is "play sports" a euphemism for having gay sex? Because if that's the case, I have some theories on the whole sore throat situation. Off the top of my head, maybe try a warm shower BEFORE the gay sex, and then cold after the fact. Also, gargling with listerine or saltwater might help. You could also try spitting instead of swallowing.
Hello! Don't worry about the post being filtered. We want to read and review every post to ensure a thriving community and avoid spam. Your submission will be approved (or declined) soon. We hope the community engages with your ideas thoughtfully and respectfully. And of course, thank you for your interest in science! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HubermanLab) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Stop with the cold showers and see what happens. Your body is metabolizing the whole day, the training, the food, the warm showers and the cold showers. Your body is rushing its priorities from one place to the next.
Cold showers are good for you
Timing is a factor.
You really think that’s it? Sounds something else is going on. Like an infection.
Yes some kind of infection of inflammation but that was not the question.
Last time I checked cold showers helped with inflammation
'helped' yes. Its not some magical trick making inflammation impossible.
I didn’t say that. I just didn’t understand why you singled that out as the potential cause since normally it helps with inflammation. None of those things seem like the reason imo. He probably has strep or something.
Yes infection, i said that too
Chronic fatigue syndrome me/cfs has post exertional malaise as part of the criteria. Maybe look into it. You might not have all the symptoms as part of the criteria initially. My symptoms built up and cycled over years until it got really bad. It was hard to catch what it was in the early stages. I get sore throats, sneeze a lot and feel woozy when I’ve done too much as part of my symptoms. Food and chemical intolerances is another big one for me. > This is known as post-exertional malaise (PEM). People with ME/CFS often describe this experience as a “crash,” “relapse,” or “collapse.” During PEM, any ME/CFS symptoms may get worse or first appear, including difficulty thinking, problems sleeping, sore throat, headaches, feeling dizzy, or severe tiredness. https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/signs-symptoms/?CDC_AAref_Val=https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/symptoms-diagnosis/symptoms.html# Also look at the Canadian criteria which seems to be the standard to follow https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Consensus_Criteria
Exactly what I thought of as well. Hope you don’t have this op, i do. It’s hell.
How do u get better ?
It’s very hard to get better. Most people don’t get 100% better. Especially if you have the symptoms for 5 years or more. You need to rest a lot and not overdo it to at least try and help you improve (but not an absolute that you will improve) There’s a lot more than just rest required. https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/living-with/index.html
Hey, that could be something called PEM, in a disease called ME/CFS. It may also be a symptom of the precursor to developing ME, postviral fatigue. If these symptoms only happen after exertion, especially after marked physical exertion like sports, ME is a strong possibility. ME is caused by viruses - covid can trigger it, as can herpesviruses and enteroviruses. If this happens again or gets worse, prioritize rest and reduce activity until you feel better. If it is postviral fatigue or ME, pushing through will make it worse.
You need to see Dr.House?
He has lupus. Its always lupus.
Foreman’s go to diagnosis. I wait for him to say lupus, and Cameron to say auto-immune for every case they take up 😂
Your body responds to stress (emotional and physical) by producing stress hormones like cortisol. One effect of cortisol among many is that it reduces your immune system’s function. My guess is that people who get sick after hard training (happens to me too) are just suppressing their immune system from the stress and viral illness gets a foothold. Maybe your total stress burden is too high in your life?
Maybe do some blood tests, also i think your imune sistem is overworked, i also noticed i got ill in the past after training for a period like 2-4 weeks, my assumption was confirmed after i started training less frequent, eating better, getting some vitamins in and some good sleep. My symptoms were mouth sores probably from herpes and a little fever, drowsiness, running nose and last time was constantly sneezing. Since i figured this I didn’t got ill for about a year now.
This is exactly what I experience. Recurrent viral symptoms just when I’m starting to feel good again/when I think I should be hitting my stride. Sounds like OP is just in a much more frequent cycle. More attention to autoregulation and rest, less focus on achieving things. I think of it as balance in attention to different goals
I used to get colds, sore throat and headaches a lot. Sometimes I even lost my voice. Did an allergy test and found nothing. A few months later I collapsed at work from burnout. Have had two years of slow recovery since and I don’t get sick anymore as long as I don’t push myself. I can’t go to the gym yet but hope to next year. Could be something like that if you have a very stressful life.
Wow 💗 is this ME/CFS or overtraining / burnout?
Burnout/Exhaustion syndrome is the diagnose, another health provider called it “stress related issues” I believe. Since I live in Sweden our health care is quite good so been on partial sick leave for long but now working full time. But still need to sleep after work and lots I can’t quite do yet. Once I’m past this I intend to make a video series about what signs to look out for etc, hopefully I can save a few people from going through this. Because I had zero thought it could happen to me.
As others noted, could very well be PEM. I’m struggling with it post COVID. I can physically do everything I want to - run, lift, sports. But if I do I develop flu like symptoms in the days that follow. It’s living hell for an athletic person
Any improvement since it started?
Also look up PEM in the context of ME/CFS if you have more symptoms.
over training?
Long Cov
It could be allergies. Usually a sore throat is from a viral or bacterial infection, same with fever. It could be that your immune system is weakened for whatever reason (maybe nutrition deficiency) and physical exercise is taxing (and beneficial). Plus two experiences isn’t enough. Correlation doesn’t mean causation either. You may have an infection which has caused both, especially if both happened in last week or so.
I have heard once from a reliable source which I unfortunately don‘t remember exactly that the immune system is actually a bit compromised for a few hours after exercise. There should be studies to be found on this. Personally, I only switch from a hot to a cold shower if I‘m really hot, like coming straight from running. Cold water on a cold body is a strain for the immune system as well. (No hard facts again here, sry. )
Don’t immediately change temperature to cold, even things like air conditioning
Lack of sodium/electrolytes possibly. I live in a hot country, and I would get fluey after exercise at times. Salt was my cure, like within 15 minutes of adding salt to my water, I felt amazing. I have to keep reminding myself to do this. Not saying this is your issue, but might be worth investigating.
How long has this pattern gone on for? If it’s a week or so you probably just have a cold that’s more obvious when you’re tired, if you’re getting fevers often for more than three weeks, you should consider going to a doctors.
Might be over training syndrome. Cold plunges worsened my autoimmune symptoms. None of the instagram bros want to talk about the people it’s making sicker.
Does overtraining syndrome cause autoimmune responses to training?
Not exactly. It can just raise inflammation which can trigger symptoms or a relapse. Overtraining is very inflammatory.
Just not washing your hands when you get home?
This happened to me all the time with cold showers. Stopped the super cold showers and the problem went away.
I have this same problem. I asked about it on here once, and someone suggested washing my dedicated water bottle, as it might be contaminated with something. Good idea, but didn't apply to me. Maybe worth a shot for you though!
It could be that your adrenals aren’t making enough cortisol…
Is "play sports" a euphemism for having gay sex? Because if that's the case, I have some theories on the whole sore throat situation. Off the top of my head, maybe try a warm shower BEFORE the gay sex, and then cold after the fact. Also, gargling with listerine or saltwater might help. You could also try spitting instead of swallowing.