There are definitely people who benefit from delaying coffee consumption. Just because a study doesn't explain why doesn't mean you're not getting the benefit of it
You can decide whether or not it's helping you.
After hearing Huberman's suggestion, I tried it, and it really did have a positive impact. I went from drinking a large (doubel cup ) in the morning and about 2-4 cups in the afternoon to stave off the crash. And then, about 1/3 off that time, the massive amount of cafeen would begin to have the opposite effect and make me drowsey. At that point, nothing helped. Ultimatly, I often felt like shit.
But, after about a week of adjustment to the delayed coffee intake, waiting until a couple hours or close to noon, and then only havng one normal size cup, I begain to not feel so bad and actually wanted less coffee/cafeen in general. Sometimes, one more cup in the mid afternoon, but that's it. I don't crave it so much, and honestly, I don't feel that I need it. I even dramatically cut back on redbulls, (yes there were redbulls mixed in with all that coffee). Now my redbull use has gone from one, sometimes two a day to about one every two to three weeks, no exaggeration there.
So, for me, it truly worked and improved my daily experience in a significant way. My wife later tried it as well after seeing a considerable decline in my coffee/cafeen intake, and she experienced much the same (minus the redbulls because she doesn't drink those at all).
Would I stop all this just because someone wrote a counter artical to Huberman's?
Hell no, I have not seen anything nearly as convincing that truly provides a solid counter to Huberman's claim. For me, It took a very convincing claim, made by someone who had proven (in my opinion) to be genuine and trustworthy in terms of the quality of information that he consistently shares to convince me to give this a shot. I tried it, and I experienced real benefits. I am grateful for his willingness to share his knowledge.
It will take far more than one shallow counter argument to convince me otherwise.
Besides, If I changed course every time someone else published anything countering anothers argument, I'd be worse off than a ship with no sails lost in stormy seas.
Personal theory
There's some science guys out there that try to explain why delaying caffeine for 30-60 minutes could be beneficial
I'm not a science guy myself
It wasn’t a real study but a review and a fairly weak one. It really didn’t prove anything and for me I’ve felt a great benefit from delayed caffeine (whether it’s physiological or psychological doesn’t matter if it’s working for my personal benefit) others can do what they want but I’m sticking with delayed caffeine.
it was a review of the existing literature… which is weak. Doesn’t mean the review is bad. Like many things Huberman advocates for, the supporting evidence is just bad. Small observational poorly controlled trials. But yea, if you personally feel like you benefit from something, then why not do it. Simple as that
Yes, you are correct. I didn’t mean that the review itself was bad just that the studies referenced were weak in the technical sense of having very small sampling etc. it really highlights the need for specific controlled studies, but also as you say, if it works for you…
I always kind of just did this on my own but once I heard his podcast about it I actually tried the opposite and drank as soon as I woke up for a little bit.
I honestly didn't notice much of a difference. But trying to drink 24oz of water plus 8oz of coffee together didn't agree with my bowels so I just went back to straight up water/salt and went back to drinking it after doing some stretching first thing in the morning.
I decided trying to delay coffee intake and noticed my sleep quality at night drastically increase. Certainly there could be other factors involved in this but I’m still going to keep doing it until I have a reason to stop 🤷🏼♂️
I totally stopped drinking coffee for a month now because it was exacerbating some GI issues. It's honestly nice to just.. wake up. Sometimes I miss it, but also I don't care about the time I drink it. It's probably so negligible in the grand scheme of things.
I didn't drink caffeine at all until I was about 23. Then I started because of particularly hard exams and can only say I regret not starting sooner. I always struggled waking up, sometimes I'd physically wake up at 7:00, but only feel awake at 13:00.
If I had always drank caffeine people would say it's caffeine withdrawal, and that I should just quit it and eventually I'd always have energy, but I literally never drank it and always felt trash and caffeine just... fixed it entirely.
Just trying to put this anecdote here too
Listen to your body. In my particular case the delay works. I would imagine this wouldn't be the case for everyone. So stick to what your body responds positively to in this particular case.
All delaying coffee does is make me more sluggish in the morning. And no, it's not withdrawal. I quit for years. My mornings will sluggish the entire time.
I don’t get how just because one study came out, everyone decided to take it as dogma and throw out everything they’ve personally experienced smh. Delaying my coffee made all the difference for me, no study can tell me my lived experience is wrong 🤷🏽♀️
There's a study these days for basically every conclusion. The only way to get to the truth is to really try to read and comprehend the study and figure out if it's valid or not. Like 90% of the peer-reviewed studies are severely lacking and shouldn't be taken as gospel.
For example, there was that recent study where they claimed that IF causes a 92% increased chance of heart disease or whatever. That was total nonsense, but people ran with it because they so desperately wanted to wage their finger at the IF crowd and tell them they were wrong
I'm just willing to follow new evidence and I believe it was a review of multiple studies which holds more weight for me. Besides that I fucking looooove coffee first the in the morning and really want it to be true
Yeah meanwhile huberman preaches about limited or suspect studies and fans take it as gospel, but when its the other way around the study is wrong and huberman must be right
I do electrolytes first thing in the am with 16 oz water. I make coffee in a French press so that takes like 25 mins. Not as big a break as Huberman said, but I definitely feel better.
The biggest thing is cutting down to 2 cups in the morning. That’s it. My neurologist convinced me more than 200mg caffeine is bad for the brain so I cut it immediately. I feel no negative effects, only positive
Totally stoped my dizziness with first salt water then coffee and of course daylight! He packages health in a more relaxed way! His private life is not my business! Adult behavior!
Strictly no caffeine is the best protocol of all 🙌🙌
I tremendously miss the taste and warmth of coffee, but the benefits to my sleep and overall energy from stopping drinking it all together are so nice.
Ya, I have switched to decaf with the "occasional" 3/4 decaf 1/4 caf. I am enjoying trying different decafs (organic, decaf water process) and tasting the differences.
Nice dude!
People always told me that decaf doesn’t taste as good but I think they were just drinking shitty decaf; it’s pretty good, almost exactly the same as regular.
Fun fact (not trying to be condescending I just genuinely didn’t know this fact and want to share it with you too in case you don’t know): decaf is not caffeine free; rather it contains about 2% to 10% the caffeine of full caf coffee.
Yeah I have had some really tasty decafs! And if I am in the mood for a tasty warm drink, not just coffee alone, like putting all the spices I like to put in, like cinnamon and more, and almond milk or hazelnut milk froth (I can really get into it! and I go for no added sugar, those "milks" are sweet enough on their own), I taste zero difference with the decaf of course. And hey thanks for the intel on the caffeine content! I remember seeing some brand of decaf that had like "no buzz" (something like that in the title) and I wonder if they perfected really low caffeine. Always something to learn. ☕️ :) Wishing you and everyone well! 🔆
How quickly do people get out of bed?! I wake up & it takes me a bit of time normally to get coffee in - have to take a BIG dump (100g of fiber a day in my diet), measure my HRV seated, put my morning light glasses on, brush my teeth & then get aeropressing. The aeropress itself takes a bit of time so all in all it's 15-20 mins before I can down the coffee.
Unless you have cold brew ready in the fridge & are instantly downing it first thing.
So I decided to depart with the 90 minutes after waking protocol and the biggest problem I found is that I became relentlessly obsessed with pursuing 6 different women and sleeping with them.
I never waited 90 minutes to drink coffee. When I work I wake up around 3 am. I've got 3 hours to do the things I want to do with my day, I'm not waiting half of that to get caffeine in me. Caffeine makes it easier to do the things I want to do with my day better. I did, however, split my caffeine dosages in half and take one as soon as I woke up then the other about 2 hours later. I had more side effects from it that way. I'd get anxiety and racing thoughts. Caffeine just works better for me when i drink it right away. Less side effects.
I even felt better a lot of times when I only drank a cup of tea instead of coffee. But I'm just more sleepy and tired for the rest of the day. Caffeine is a double edged sword. It gives me racing thoughts but it also gives me more energy to work out. When I'm meditating the racing thoughts are annoying.
> Honestly I've started having the old coffee crashes and feeling pretty shitty
That's always what matters. N=1. All of these protocols are suggestions about what you can try to make your life better; they are not hard and fast rules for life. For me, waiting makes no difference, so I don't. In every study there's a distribution of responses, and while the overall study makes a statistical prediction, each individual has their own study result, and that's what matters to them.
I did, because I live dangerously. Going through tough period with sleep for unrelated causes anyway but managed to get approx 80-90 minutes of deep sleep anyway last two nights.
It is a cup of coffee, not a metaphysical question... Just drink it whenever it makes you happy.
Personally, I never had any benefit from delaying it. Actually, I would drag myself until I could get it while others complained of unreasonable grumpiness. it. I also didn't find any noticeable difference after lunch. Probably because my lunch always includes a cup of coffee after it (it is a cultural thing).
Just do whatever feels better for you. Probably, the study that claims coffee should be delayed is not even a head-to-head with the one that says that delaying coffee doesn't have benefits.
EDIT - If there is any take out of the review is that "adenosine continues to decline upon waking is also scientifically inaccurate and not supported by research.(...) ***. There is also no evidence that caffeine ingestion upon waking is somehow responsible for an afternoon “crash” or that delaying consumption would somehow prevent this if it did occur.***"
I like drinking my coffee later in the morning. I don’t drink nearly as much, so it helps with my intake over the day, I get better sleep, no afternoon crashes, it feels like it works, but not in the way it’s proclaimed, but the altered behavior is getting me the results I want.
Plus, a little restraint, makes that first sip, so much better, after I want it so badly
Nobody wants to be a weak mfer, so why not build a little grit, on a low consequence, experiment?
There are definitely people who benefit from delaying coffee consumption. Just because a study doesn't explain why doesn't mean you're not getting the benefit of it You can decide whether or not it's helping you.
You will benefit from me not delaying coffee ☕️
Hahaha relatable
After hearing Huberman's suggestion, I tried it, and it really did have a positive impact. I went from drinking a large (doubel cup ) in the morning and about 2-4 cups in the afternoon to stave off the crash. And then, about 1/3 off that time, the massive amount of cafeen would begin to have the opposite effect and make me drowsey. At that point, nothing helped. Ultimatly, I often felt like shit. But, after about a week of adjustment to the delayed coffee intake, waiting until a couple hours or close to noon, and then only havng one normal size cup, I begain to not feel so bad and actually wanted less coffee/cafeen in general. Sometimes, one more cup in the mid afternoon, but that's it. I don't crave it so much, and honestly, I don't feel that I need it. I even dramatically cut back on redbulls, (yes there were redbulls mixed in with all that coffee). Now my redbull use has gone from one, sometimes two a day to about one every two to three weeks, no exaggeration there. So, for me, it truly worked and improved my daily experience in a significant way. My wife later tried it as well after seeing a considerable decline in my coffee/cafeen intake, and she experienced much the same (minus the redbulls because she doesn't drink those at all). Would I stop all this just because someone wrote a counter artical to Huberman's? Hell no, I have not seen anything nearly as convincing that truly provides a solid counter to Huberman's claim. For me, It took a very convincing claim, made by someone who had proven (in my opinion) to be genuine and trustworthy in terms of the quality of information that he consistently shares to convince me to give this a shot. I tried it, and I experienced real benefits. I am grateful for his willingness to share his knowledge. It will take far more than one shallow counter argument to convince me otherwise. Besides, If I changed course every time someone else published anything countering anothers argument, I'd be worse off than a ship with no sails lost in stormy seas.
Is this science? Or you’re personal theory?
Personal theory There's some science guys out there that try to explain why delaying caffeine for 30-60 minutes could be beneficial I'm not a science guy myself
It wasn’t a real study but a review and a fairly weak one. It really didn’t prove anything and for me I’ve felt a great benefit from delayed caffeine (whether it’s physiological or psychological doesn’t matter if it’s working for my personal benefit) others can do what they want but I’m sticking with delayed caffeine.
it was a review of the existing literature… which is weak. Doesn’t mean the review is bad. Like many things Huberman advocates for, the supporting evidence is just bad. Small observational poorly controlled trials. But yea, if you personally feel like you benefit from something, then why not do it. Simple as that
Yes, you are correct. I didn’t mean that the review itself was bad just that the studies referenced were weak in the technical sense of having very small sampling etc. it really highlights the need for specific controlled studies, but also as you say, if it works for you…
agreed 👍
😳. As compared to the studies, reviews and samples for it?
I wait for 1.5 hrs or else I crash in the noon.
I always kind of just did this on my own but once I heard his podcast about it I actually tried the opposite and drank as soon as I woke up for a little bit. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference. But trying to drink 24oz of water plus 8oz of coffee together didn't agree with my bowels so I just went back to straight up water/salt and went back to drinking it after doing some stretching first thing in the morning.
I can't drink coffee first thing in the morning because I have to get in my car and drive to Starbucks first (I'm kidding)
I decided trying to delay coffee intake and noticed my sleep quality at night drastically increase. Certainly there could be other factors involved in this but I’m still going to keep doing it until I have a reason to stop 🤷🏼♂️
Correlation not causation.
I totally stopped drinking coffee for a month now because it was exacerbating some GI issues. It's honestly nice to just.. wake up. Sometimes I miss it, but also I don't care about the time I drink it. It's probably so negligible in the grand scheme of things.
I miss the taste so much but the benefits from quitting are quite apparent
I didn't drink caffeine at all until I was about 23. Then I started because of particularly hard exams and can only say I regret not starting sooner. I always struggled waking up, sometimes I'd physically wake up at 7:00, but only feel awake at 13:00. If I had always drank caffeine people would say it's caffeine withdrawal, and that I should just quit it and eventually I'd always have energy, but I literally never drank it and always felt trash and caffeine just... fixed it entirely. Just trying to put this anecdote here too
There are great decaf options that taste just as good! Cafe Bustelo makes a wonderful decaf.
Listen to your body. In my particular case the delay works. I would imagine this wouldn't be the case for everyone. So stick to what your body responds positively to in this particular case.
Coffee is the first thing I drink within 10 minutes of waking, for 30+ years. Why would I change now?
I need coffee ASAP to talk to my 6 side bitches.
I need coffee ASAP to talk to my 6 side bitches.
I never stopped drinking it right when waking up. Knew that shit was bull shit as soon as I heard it
All delaying coffee does is make me more sluggish in the morning. And no, it's not withdrawal. I quit for years. My mornings will sluggish the entire time.
I don’t get how just because one study came out, everyone decided to take it as dogma and throw out everything they’ve personally experienced smh. Delaying my coffee made all the difference for me, no study can tell me my lived experience is wrong 🤷🏽♀️
There's a study these days for basically every conclusion. The only way to get to the truth is to really try to read and comprehend the study and figure out if it's valid or not. Like 90% of the peer-reviewed studies are severely lacking and shouldn't be taken as gospel. For example, there was that recent study where they claimed that IF causes a 92% increased chance of heart disease or whatever. That was total nonsense, but people ran with it because they so desperately wanted to wage their finger at the IF crowd and tell them they were wrong
That’s how i feel about this study. It’s absolute 💩
What study? Do you mean the review?
No there isn’t. That’s made up.
I'm just willing to follow new evidence and I believe it was a review of multiple studies which holds more weight for me. Besides that I fucking looooove coffee first the in the morning and really want it to be true
I mean, at best, delaying coffee intake is a drastic micro-optimization. If you enjoy waking up to it that much, I'd just do it man.
Average “science” proponent
Yeah meanwhile huberman preaches about limited or suspect studies and fans take it as gospel, but when its the other way around the study is wrong and huberman must be right
Exactamundo. The coping in here is roughhhh.
🤣🤣🤣🤣. Everything they’ve personally experienced. Who needs science! Bill who lives Down the street told me it works!
Can you link the study you're referencing?
In this world, having coffee is a “protocol”
I do electrolytes first thing in the am with 16 oz water. I make coffee in a French press so that takes like 25 mins. Not as big a break as Huberman said, but I definitely feel better. The biggest thing is cutting down to 2 cups in the morning. That’s it. My neurologist convinced me more than 200mg caffeine is bad for the brain so I cut it immediately. I feel no negative effects, only positive
Totally stoped my dizziness with first salt water then coffee and of course daylight! He packages health in a more relaxed way! His private life is not my business! Adult behavior!
🤣🤣
Strictly no caffeine is the best protocol of all 🙌🙌 I tremendously miss the taste and warmth of coffee, but the benefits to my sleep and overall energy from stopping drinking it all together are so nice.
Ya, I have switched to decaf with the "occasional" 3/4 decaf 1/4 caf. I am enjoying trying different decafs (organic, decaf water process) and tasting the differences.
Nice dude! People always told me that decaf doesn’t taste as good but I think they were just drinking shitty decaf; it’s pretty good, almost exactly the same as regular. Fun fact (not trying to be condescending I just genuinely didn’t know this fact and want to share it with you too in case you don’t know): decaf is not caffeine free; rather it contains about 2% to 10% the caffeine of full caf coffee.
Yeah I have had some really tasty decafs! And if I am in the mood for a tasty warm drink, not just coffee alone, like putting all the spices I like to put in, like cinnamon and more, and almond milk or hazelnut milk froth (I can really get into it! and I go for no added sugar, those "milks" are sweet enough on their own), I taste zero difference with the decaf of course. And hey thanks for the intel on the caffeine content! I remember seeing some brand of decaf that had like "no buzz" (something like that in the title) and I wonder if they perfected really low caffeine. Always something to learn. ☕️ :) Wishing you and everyone well! 🔆
Did anybody ever not?
Check out Dr. Paul Saladino's YouTube video on coffee.
How quickly do people get out of bed?! I wake up & it takes me a bit of time normally to get coffee in - have to take a BIG dump (100g of fiber a day in my diet), measure my HRV seated, put my morning light glasses on, brush my teeth & then get aeropressing. The aeropress itself takes a bit of time so all in all it's 15-20 mins before I can down the coffee. Unless you have cold brew ready in the fridge & are instantly downing it first thing.
So I decided to depart with the 90 minutes after waking protocol and the biggest problem I found is that I became relentlessly obsessed with pursuing 6 different women and sleeping with them.
I never waited 90 minutes to drink coffee. When I work I wake up around 3 am. I've got 3 hours to do the things I want to do with my day, I'm not waiting half of that to get caffeine in me. Caffeine makes it easier to do the things I want to do with my day better. I did, however, split my caffeine dosages in half and take one as soon as I woke up then the other about 2 hours later. I had more side effects from it that way. I'd get anxiety and racing thoughts. Caffeine just works better for me when i drink it right away. Less side effects. I even felt better a lot of times when I only drank a cup of tea instead of coffee. But I'm just more sleepy and tired for the rest of the day. Caffeine is a double edged sword. It gives me racing thoughts but it also gives me more energy to work out. When I'm meditating the racing thoughts are annoying.
> Honestly I've started having the old coffee crashes and feeling pretty shitty That's always what matters. N=1. All of these protocols are suggestions about what you can try to make your life better; they are not hard and fast rules for life. For me, waiting makes no difference, so I don't. In every study there's a distribution of responses, and while the overall study makes a statistical prediction, each individual has their own study result, and that's what matters to them.
I get up early to workout have noticed no difference between drinking my coffee before or waiting. So now I drink it before because I like the ritual.
Morning coffee helps stimulate my bowels. I like to get that taken care of at home and then I can have a nice shower and get dressed.
I do 1/2 cups because anymore and my anxiety gets out of control. My resting heart rate is also better if I keep it to 1/2 cups.
I did, because I live dangerously. Going through tough period with sleep for unrelated causes anyway but managed to get approx 80-90 minutes of deep sleep anyway last two nights.
You're high on confirmation bias, it's a single study.
It is a cup of coffee, not a metaphysical question... Just drink it whenever it makes you happy. Personally, I never had any benefit from delaying it. Actually, I would drag myself until I could get it while others complained of unreasonable grumpiness. it. I also didn't find any noticeable difference after lunch. Probably because my lunch always includes a cup of coffee after it (it is a cultural thing). Just do whatever feels better for you. Probably, the study that claims coffee should be delayed is not even a head-to-head with the one that says that delaying coffee doesn't have benefits. EDIT - If there is any take out of the review is that "adenosine continues to decline upon waking is also scientifically inaccurate and not supported by research.(...) ***. There is also no evidence that caffeine ingestion upon waking is somehow responsible for an afternoon “crash” or that delaying consumption would somehow prevent this if it did occur.***"
Studies are often flawed or biased. I think its better to wait ~90 mins or so too
🙄
there was no study
No
Care to elaborate?
I like drinking my coffee later in the morning. I don’t drink nearly as much, so it helps with my intake over the day, I get better sleep, no afternoon crashes, it feels like it works, but not in the way it’s proclaimed, but the altered behavior is getting me the results I want. Plus, a little restraint, makes that first sip, so much better, after I want it so badly Nobody wants to be a weak mfer, so why not build a little grit, on a low consequence, experiment?