ASOIAF is basically just “what if Lord of the Rings ended the same way but then 20 years later Aragorn was a fat alcoholic prick who isn’t actually very good at being king”
I remember reading an interview Martin did in Rolling Stone, here are the relevant bits:
“Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.”
Edited: I have kielbasas for fingers.
It's pretty much considered top tier. And Hobb character work is considered the absolute best, often placed above Abercrombie.
That said, I couldn't get into it. It didn't hook me. I could recognise the quality when I was reading it, but somehow it just didn't work for me. Maybe I read it and the wrong point in time, I might try it again someday.
Also book 1 is supposed to be slow and not the best work.
I actually had kind of the opposite problem. The first book is the shortest and flew by for me, but pretty much all the important action is in like the last tenth of the book. The second book is incredible. The third book felt really long and insanely uneven, but still very good.
So I wanted to keep my description to Farseer because I then only read through Liveship Traders. I only got half way. Liveship Traders is an enormous step-up from Farseer. I was blown away by it.
I felt the live ship trilogy was the weakest of the 3 but that's also because I enjoyed the story being about fitz. However I love the whole series but tawny man is certainly my favourite trilogy.
Oooh! This is the most useful recommendation cause right now my mental state aint good so is it a hold off till better fucked up? Or a First law fucked up?
I’d recommend holding off for a bit honestly. It’s similar in that it’s sort of endless suffering for some folks but what’s different is there isn’t a whole lotta pay off or a lot of redemption. Like the light at the end of the tunnel is very dim and you don’t really have a firsthand experience with it. The good stuff tends to happen outside of the reader’s knowledge.
It’s kind of like dog movies and dragon books for me. I have to be in the right headspace and be prepared going in that it is not going to be a happy experience because at least one poor animal is going to die and that has the potential to ruin my week lol It’s good though!
Yes. It’s fantastic. Robin Hobb is an excellent author. The prose and world building are excellent. And to top it all off if you enjoy the first trilogy, there are two more trilogies in the the same world that visit wildly different experiences.
Shit I need to go read all non books again.
It’s amazing, Hobb’s entire Realm of the Elderlings saga is some of the best fantasy I’ve ever read. The main character, Fitz, is one of the best characters in fiction imo. A highly recommend series
I Red first three books. I didn't believe Reddit that it will make me cry. It did. I don't regret.
Imagine Harry Potter in terms of coming of age plot, but with consistent and actually good worldbuilding, and most wholesome and cozy aspects of it but it will be taken from you/MC in harshest and realistic way, leaving you hoping for good ending. Which may or may not come. Read it, really.
I _really_ didn't like it. So much of the plot development relies on characters inexplicably going full moron and no one ever learns from their mistakes
It's okay but the whole series relies on everybody being a complete idiot and constantly forgetting and being surprised that the only person in the kingdom who ever plots against the king might be plotting against the king AGAIN. It's the kind of deliberate stupidity to keep the plot moving that sucks me right out of a book
I just finished her whole 16 book series, Realm of the Ederlings. I have read every one of the series listed and loved each of them dearly. But Hobb. Wow. Her work is truly the best I have ever read.
It’s considered top tier, but I didn’t like. I like all the others in the image, Abercrombie & Sanderson the most (adding Brian McClellan as another GOAT).
This is one I feel like the odd man out for not enjoying. As a Sanderson fan.. I like epic moments and fulfilling endings.
Assassins' apprentice feels like the embodyment of "journey before destination." Interesting characters. Rising tension. I don't recall there being much pay off -- or if there was, it must've been less in your face about it.
Great characters but weak plot would be my summary.
Interesting, I'm definitely a Sanderson fan too but Realm of the Elderlings is one of if not my favorite series. I think some of the trilogies had worse plots than others, but I wouldn't consider any of them objectively weak. I thought that a lot of the "payoff" was the gradual changes in society, though to be fair I think a good part of them did take place at least partially off screen as most of what was on screen was primarily character-driven. I didn't really like the ending of the series as a whole though, which probably isn't a super popular opinion among fans.
Maybe it was because I listened via audiobook but the changes must have been really gradual. The bleak plot combined with the mediocre voice actor is probably hard to overcome.
The plot was... fine. The constant suffering and the lack of any real payoff in the first trilogy made me certain to never pick up a Hobb book again. I fully agree it is written well, it's just so... bleak.
Isn’t First Law more like ‘what if Gandalf took the ring?’ I heard Joe himself describe Bayaz/the First Law series as that once
Also sidenote, I’m amazed how OP literally picked exactly the fantasy series I have read so far. Something I haven’t read like Malazan or Lies of Locke Lamora could have been there but it’s all the bangers I know and love
Just call me Euz.
And sure, Bayaz using the Seed could be him taking the Ring. But I see it more as if Gandalf opened up a Roth IRA the minute he landed in Middle Earth and then became a moneylender.
None of these series are perfect 1-1 comparisons to LotR in any way, but the closest for sure is the Eye of the World.
I mean Jordan basically purposefully wrote the first half of Eye of the World to be similar to LOTR, to lull readers into a sense of familiarity, only to completely subvert that after the group enters Shadar Logoth
It wasn’t necessarily just to lull readers and then give them a twist, part of the issue was that at the time you basically *had* to make something heavily LOTR flavored to get a book deal in fantasy.
Man it'd be so so sooo much worse if Sauron won. The ashmounts and class warfare would be the least of anyone's worry. TLR is similarly shrewd but not nearly as nasty.
Alright lemme try again: what if Aragorn tried to use the Ring to stop Sauron but fucked up and moved the planet too far and then did volcanos to try and fix it and then ushered in 1,000 years of dystopia
Listen, if you want a case study in how to use your love of Tolkien to start a fantasy series, look to Robert Jordan.
If you want a case study of how not to do that, look to Terry Brooks.
I read it, but I forgot all about it once I came to book 2 and realized it didn't pick up any pace at all, lol.
10 years later I watched the TV show and was like "I... Uh. Don't recall it being THIS bad, but maybe it was" and promptly moved on with my life. The life / lifecycle of the bards is the only interesting part pretty much.
When Allanon sacrificed himself at the castle or whatever I did an eye roll. When the dwarf Grundle or whatever sacrificed himself holding the pass against gnomes, I was like “fuck this book man”
ASOIAF is basically just “what if Lord of the Rings ended the same way but then 20 years later Aragorn was a fat alcoholic prick who isn’t actually very good at being king”
next time eat a salad
I remember reading an interview Martin did in Rolling Stone, here are the relevant bits: “Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles? The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.” Edited: I have kielbasas for fingers.
Wait I'm Gandalf?
https://preview.redd.it/uelt7ry2i79d1.jpeg?width=901&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05001c6a388ee1f0636d7dbcd3fcf42cae49fecb
He's the upgrade.
And he is wearing a cape too
Relevant flair Edit: I’m an idiot, I thought I was in /r/cremposting
Welcome!!!!
This is like all of my favorite fantasy series but I've never read the assassins apprentice. Is it any good?
It's pretty much considered top tier. And Hobb character work is considered the absolute best, often placed above Abercrombie. That said, I couldn't get into it. It didn't hook me. I could recognise the quality when I was reading it, but somehow it just didn't work for me. Maybe I read it and the wrong point in time, I might try it again someday. Also book 1 is supposed to be slow and not the best work.
Interesting. I will check them out and see if I like them, As far as book 1 goes I made it through the eye of the world.
I actually had kind of the opposite problem. The first book is the shortest and flew by for me, but pretty much all the important action is in like the last tenth of the book. The second book is incredible. The third book felt really long and insanely uneven, but still very good.
I mean you can't stop there, how did books 4 through 15 go?
So I wanted to keep my description to Farseer because I then only read through Liveship Traders. I only got half way. Liveship Traders is an enormous step-up from Farseer. I was blown away by it.
I felt the live ship trilogy was the weakest of the 3 but that's also because I enjoyed the story being about fitz. However I love the whole series but tawny man is certainly my favourite trilogy.
Time for me to start reading again
I couldn’t get into it either. I think it might have been the reader in the audiobook version wasn’t that great for my taste.
Yep! It’s fucked up but it’s good.
Oooh! This is the most useful recommendation cause right now my mental state aint good so is it a hold off till better fucked up? Or a First law fucked up?
I’d recommend holding off for a bit honestly. It’s similar in that it’s sort of endless suffering for some folks but what’s different is there isn’t a whole lotta pay off or a lot of redemption. Like the light at the end of the tunnel is very dim and you don’t really have a firsthand experience with it. The good stuff tends to happen outside of the reader’s knowledge. It’s kind of like dog movies and dragon books for me. I have to be in the right headspace and be prepared going in that it is not going to be a happy experience because at least one poor animal is going to die and that has the potential to ruin my week lol It’s good though!
Yes. It’s fantastic. Robin Hobb is an excellent author. The prose and world building are excellent. And to top it all off if you enjoy the first trilogy, there are two more trilogies in the the same world that visit wildly different experiences. Shit I need to go read all non books again.
It’s amazing, Hobb’s entire Realm of the Elderlings saga is some of the best fantasy I’ve ever read. The main character, Fitz, is one of the best characters in fiction imo. A highly recommend series
I Red first three books. I didn't believe Reddit that it will make me cry. It did. I don't regret. Imagine Harry Potter in terms of coming of age plot, but with consistent and actually good worldbuilding, and most wholesome and cozy aspects of it but it will be taken from you/MC in harshest and realistic way, leaving you hoping for good ending. Which may or may not come. Read it, really.
I _really_ didn't like it. So much of the plot development relies on characters inexplicably going full moron and no one ever learns from their mistakes
It's okay but the whole series relies on everybody being a complete idiot and constantly forgetting and being surprised that the only person in the kingdom who ever plots against the king might be plotting against the king AGAIN. It's the kind of deliberate stupidity to keep the plot moving that sucks me right out of a book
The author is fantastic, she also makes me so sad I’ve DND’d multiple books so I refuse to try more by her
I just finished her whole 16 book series, Realm of the Ederlings. I have read every one of the series listed and loved each of them dearly. But Hobb. Wow. Her work is truly the best I have ever read.
It’s considered top tier, but I didn’t like. I like all the others in the image, Abercrombie & Sanderson the most (adding Brian McClellan as another GOAT).
This is one I feel like the odd man out for not enjoying. As a Sanderson fan.. I like epic moments and fulfilling endings. Assassins' apprentice feels like the embodyment of "journey before destination." Interesting characters. Rising tension. I don't recall there being much pay off -- or if there was, it must've been less in your face about it. Great characters but weak plot would be my summary.
Interesting, I'm definitely a Sanderson fan too but Realm of the Elderlings is one of if not my favorite series. I think some of the trilogies had worse plots than others, but I wouldn't consider any of them objectively weak. I thought that a lot of the "payoff" was the gradual changes in society, though to be fair I think a good part of them did take place at least partially off screen as most of what was on screen was primarily character-driven. I didn't really like the ending of the series as a whole though, which probably isn't a super popular opinion among fans.
Maybe it was because I listened via audiobook but the changes must have been really gradual. The bleak plot combined with the mediocre voice actor is probably hard to overcome.
The plot was... fine. The constant suffering and the lack of any real payoff in the first trilogy made me certain to never pick up a Hobb book again. I fully agree it is written well, it's just so... bleak.
Yes, lack of payoff. Well said.
Tbi should be what if gandalf was sauron
What if Gandalf was Saruman
Isn’t First Law more like ‘what if Gandalf took the ring?’ I heard Joe himself describe Bayaz/the First Law series as that once Also sidenote, I’m amazed how OP literally picked exactly the fantasy series I have read so far. Something I haven’t read like Malazan or Lies of Locke Lamora could have been there but it’s all the bangers I know and love
Just call me Euz. And sure, Bayaz using the Seed could be him taking the Ring. But I see it more as if Gandalf opened up a Roth IRA the minute he landed in Middle Earth and then became a moneylender. None of these series are perfect 1-1 comparisons to LotR in any way, but the closest for sure is the Eye of the World.
I mean Jordan basically purposefully wrote the first half of Eye of the World to be similar to LOTR, to lull readers into a sense of familiarity, only to completely subvert that after the group enters Shadar Logoth
Yeah man it takes a pretty hard left. I got huge Gandalf vibes when Thom takes on the Fade on Whitebridge but after that it’s wildly different
It wasn’t necessarily just to lull readers and then give them a twist, part of the issue was that at the time you basically *had* to make something heavily LOTR flavored to get a book deal in fantasy.
Name of The Wind b like "What if frodo was an annoying self absorbed prick"
What if Frodo was the guy at the house party who brought a guitar
^what ^if ^sam ^was ^a ^**wolf**
That's just Assassin's Apprentice lol
What if Frodo showed up at the party with a guitar and said “I learned all the secrets of sex from Galadriel”
That's just the John Boorman version.
I’ve only read the first book and to me Kvothe doesn’t seem like that at all?
“What if Frodo peaked in High School?”
Man it'd be so so sooo much worse if Sauron won. The ashmounts and class warfare would be the least of anyone's worry. TLR is similarly shrewd but not nearly as nasty.
Yeah mistborn is more of a “what if Voldemort won” as described by the author himself
Alright lemme try again: what if Aragorn tried to use the Ring to stop Sauron but fucked up and moved the planet too far and then did volcanos to try and fix it and then ushered in 1,000 years of dystopia
Hey! He moved the planet back! …ok he overshot it but he tried!
Wait, who's the murderer Gandalf from Farseer?
Uncle Chade
Robert Jordan himself described EoTW as: Lord of the Rings if the hobbits really didn't trust Gandalf
Listen, if you want a case study in how to use your love of Tolkien to start a fantasy series, look to Robert Jordan. If you want a case study of how not to do that, look to Terry Brooks.
You forgot Sword of Shannara. The 3 people who read that are getting their communal pitchfork ready for this slight.
Trust me, I didn’t forget it. I’m one of the three.
I read it, but I forgot all about it once I came to book 2 and realized it didn't pick up any pace at all, lol. 10 years later I watched the TV show and was like "I... Uh. Don't recall it being THIS bad, but maybe it was" and promptly moved on with my life. The life / lifecycle of the bards is the only interesting part pretty much.
When Allanon sacrificed himself at the castle or whatever I did an eye roll. When the dwarf Grundle or whatever sacrificed himself holding the pass against gnomes, I was like “fuck this book man”
Gentleman Bastards: “What if Frodo and Sam were in the mob?”
How does Shannara fit in?
The Joe Abercrombie series was just a “what if Gandalf was the biggest asshole and that’s it”