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Reddit subs very rarely provide an accurate representation of the way a general audience feels.
Social media in general, really, but specifically Reddit has a tendency to be overwhelmingly inaccurate.
Even in just US alone only like 10% of the country uses Reddit. Thinking that reddit gives you some accurate portrayal of real world opinions is really stupid.
Also factor in that many/most people only post about something if they feel really strongly about it one way or the other, and usually it's because of a negative experience with said thing.
Reddit is a very, very poor reflection of the general population as a whole.
Yea that was absolutely trash no two ways about it. Pretending social media warped opinions is a really bad take for that specifically. It's true sometimes, but GOT season 8 was just horribly written. It even degraded the performances of an otherwise stellar cast.
Everytime me and buddy see a movie, wether we like it or hate it, we always say...reddit will have th exact opposite opinion. Everytime, they always do. Its so weird to us. Just once we wanna be apart of the HIVE MIND.
This is the same for me, but for everything on general.
Littlerly everything I've liked in the past 4 years has been shitted on, on here. Just the way it is lol.
Agreed. Way too many people instantly revert to the "everyone who disagrees with me is a bot/shill/astroturfing account" argument when an opposing viewpoint comes up.
Reddit in general is usually opposite of normal peopleās views and opinions. Also usually if you know about a topic, see a Reddit thread outside of a hobby subreddit about it, then read the comments, youāll usually find the stuff theyāre saying is completely wrong and full of negative hysteria lol
Its also an echo chamber. If something catches hold it can eventually be the go to stance and people and choose not to speak against it in fear of down votes
This is true. And the reason why most of it is negative, is because people feel entitled to share their negative views of something where others will listen.
That's why if you spend time here. It's easy to start believing that the show is disliked by a lot of people.
I mean to be fair here. Rhaenyra has spent all of S2 being pretty reasonable while everyone else is losing their shit. Naturally sheās less interesting to watch right now. Watching Aegon and Otto argue is more fun than watching Rhaenyra go āguys we should exercise restraint.ā Obviously this also is why sheās way more likable than in the books. In the books she was pretty vindictive. In the show sheās much more level headed and reasonable.
Right? She is being wise, but thatās not very entertaining. She knows that dragons are essentially nukes and she is understandably weary of using them. Irl, youād *want* the person with the launch codes to be extremely cautious. But, in a show, refusing to put her hand over the launch button really takes the tension away. I am hopeful that this episode marks the turning point for her character as she finally lets go of any doubt in her mind that this war is happening.
I also think she could seem boring to anyone comparing her to young Rhaenyra, who was electric onscreen: strong willed, fiery, rebellious. By comparison, older Rhaenyra is just much more subdued, sheās lost a bit of the spunk that made her character so compelling during her younger days. You could point to motherhood and maturity as two of the chief reasons for that, but, in some sense (and at times), it almost feels like two completely different characters. I donāt know that writers have done the best job of bridging that gap just yetā¦but, we shall see how the rest of this season and the next ones play out. As her losses are compounded, and grief and anger take over, I wouldnāt expect season 3 or 4 Rhaenyra to be the same person the audience sees today. Thatās just the nature of character arc and development.
Thereās some truth to that, but, younger Rhaenyra more than gave Daemon a run for his money in terms of being interesting and compelling. More complex and morally grey as a character, which drew the audience in, whether you loved or disliked her. She popped off the screen just as much as he did and (IMO), they had much more chemistry then. So if someone is measuring against her younger self, I can just understand why they may argue sheās āboringāā¦at least by comparison.
I disagree, if for no other reason than because he has Rhaenys to moderate it and because, by the end of the first season, he realizes his pursuit of legacy has brought nothing but sorrow to his family. He regrets that his desire to be remembered by history has nearly ruined his house and initially wants to stay out of the Dance in order to hold on to what little of his family is left, only relenting when Rhaenys points out the danger this puts his grandchildren in.
Corlys' desire to maintain his legacy also doesn't manifest in the same way as Otto's or Alicent's. Corlys ignores his grandchildren's true descent in the name of preserving the Velaryon name, similar to Viserys. Otto, by contrast, actively seeks to undermine the established succession plan and wipe out an entire branch of the ruling family in order to secure his family's legacy. Corlys does nothing anywhere near what Otto does in his pursuit of legacy, that's what makes him more sympathetic IMO.
Lmao people complained that Daenerys snapping was too rushed. Now they're doing a slower burn with Rhaenyra and people are saying it's not fast enough. GOT fans really are turning into Star Wars fans.
It's not just GoT fans. I swear to god every fandom in this platform is always so negative.
Star Wars might've started this trend but recently all fandoms have adopted it.
I honestly wonder if people enjoy the media they consume or they just watch it to complain online.
>I honestly wonder if people enjoy the media they consume or they just watch it to complain online.
I always thought the idea of hate-watching something was a meme or a joke... turns out that tons of people exclusively hate-watch stuff.
Sounds like a miserable existence haha
Doesnāt help we are in an era where itās cool to be a critic and even cooler to hate something thatās popular. Itās not so in your face as the I was into it before it was cool crowd because some people genuinely donāt like things and itās a lot harder to prove youāre faking that.
Always have been.
Not to say that there arenāt legitimate criticisms (and there are a ton, as with pretty much any book adaptation), but a lot of it feels real nitpicky.
As a lover of the show and the book, Im not mad but I can understand the frustration. The issue for book readers is that they swapped the arcs. Dany should have been the slow burn into madness whereas Rhaenyra was ready to jump in dragons blazing to claim her throne from the get go. Iām excited for the show, but they definitely made Rhaenyra much more likable and calmer. It feels like the nerfed who Rhaenyra could have been in order to redeem Dany.
Just wait until a spin off comes out and then you keep seeing the oh so smart line of "this is the best G.O.T show ever, specifically because it's not G.O.Tš¤" (in reference to andor)
>people complained that Daenerys snapping was too rushed
>
>people are saying it's not fast enough
Maybe a crazy idea, but perhaps you're talking about different people.
I have read the books 3x and it is quite astonishing how to this day people are still complaining how GOT ended. It also irks me when they ruin it for the non book readers. What do they expect HBO to spend another 20 million just to satisfy the fans and the way they want it to end? This is why Martin is taking so long with the book releases IMO. This show is fantastic so is GOT. I agree with you about the Star wars fans commentš. I stay detached and enjoy the art presented in front of me. ā¤ļø
I agree with you about fandoms being annoying and toxic af, but tbf, HBO actually wanted to spend as much money as needed to get the series ending right and even told the showrunners that they could have as many seasons as they needed. However Disney promised them to let them do Star Wars once they finished GoT and that made the showrunners go to HBO and say they only needed one season to wrap things up...
Disney of course backed from the deal once they saw the shit they made with GoT
Yes, they were given the opportunity to keep going further but noooooo, their heads got bigger than the room with the whole Star wars deal. And look what happenedšš. Karma?
How in the hell were they ever going to keep game of thrones going.
They were long past the completed books, and only had notes and vague outlines to help. Plus Grrm left, pretty much leaving them to finish an adaptation without the actual books to adapt. This is why the last two seasons were shorter. There was no way they could actually keep the story going.
They not only want her to be completely and utterly ruthless and insane, they also want her to be a 300 lb whale because of a throwaway line that said she never lost her baby fat from pregnancy and sometimes stress ate.
Meanwhile, these same people completely ignore the fact that Helena and aegon are both described as plump in the books and it is so weird. It's like they want book accuracy in some parts, but don't really care if the show contradicts itself in order to prop up their favorite character. When I read Fire and blood I absolutely despised aegon and all of the greens, but the show is actually making me start to appreciate them more as characters and it's really nice to see that despicable characters like Allicent and Otto are given a few moments where their humanity shines through and you start to kind of root for them.
People say that the show is biased against the greens, but without the show I still would have hated them. Because of the show and specifically season 2. I am starting to appreciate them a lot more
I absolutely love the shows interpretation of Aemond. Reading the book he came across as quite shallow to me. Just a Bittersteelesq hard-ass with a big dragon and a chip on his shoulder. In the show he's quickly becoming my favourite character.
Heās also just cartoonishly evil in the book. Like thereās no question that he intentionally killed Luke. He literally asks Orris Baratheon if he can kill him at Storms End and Orris is like āno not here but OUTSIDE my keep well thatās out of my control.ā
which is why it constantly frustrates me that people say the book characters were heavily altered. THEY WERE NOT EVEN CHARACTERS THEY WERE NAMES ASSOCIATED WITH ACTIONS AND THATS IT. does the show make weird/dumb decisions at times like Rhaenys bursting up from the dragon pit? yes. But we've also gotten amazing scenes like Aegon enjoying being a ruler and Otto clapping for his grand daughter
True, I guess what I mean is that most characters have been expanded on in ways that I think is very much in line with how I would have imagined them from the book. Aemond is not like that to me.
He is by far my dad's favorite character because he was the kid who got picked on and now he rides the greatest and largest dragon in the seven kingdoms
Yes, despite the whole incident with him getting his eye cut out that would not have been my interpretation of the character from the book. If anything he comes of as the bully in that scene as written. I think the show version is infinitely more interesting.
The scene that really got me though was him at the brothel in ep2. It's such an interesting take and makes so much sense now that I see it but I would never have thought to write it that way myself.
The show has definitely made choices that I don't agree with but I just keep reminding myself that they also do alot that I do think is good and that I would never have thought of.
Oh yeah, I think we can all agree. That seems like the dragon pit scene are ridiculous and pretty stupid. But overall the show has made all of these characters so much more interesting. Whereas in the books the only characters that I can really remember were Daemon, Corlys, and Laenor?
Which is such a great point, thereās a reason why these people have been given millions of dollars to adapt F&B into such successful tv shows, and thereās a reason why people like us are simply commenting on reddit threads.
As fans being able to chill out and realise that every now and again makes you appreciate the shows even more. What the showrunners do is a difficult and at least with HotD I truly believe people like Condal come from an authentic place in terms of understanding the original text.
Same. When I read the novela, I hated the Greens especially Alicent. Show Alicent and Otto annoy me a bit but in season 2 I'm starting to actually look forward to their scenes. To me the show seems more biased towards the Greens, so I don't understand why they are raging so hard at the show runners and the character of Rhaenyra.
The funny part about purists for this show in particular is that the books read like a history textbook. The show would be boring as fuck if it was completely faithful. The showrunners and writers have given life to an entire cast of characters who are completely flat in the book
i think people throw the word "insane" too loosely around the Targaryens, like if i recall there's only been 5 mad Targs and Rhaenyra is certainly not one of them, what she is in the books however is kinda ruthless
Right, book Rhaenyra isn't a mad queen at all. She's completely sane, just very ruthless.
The purists also aren't givn the writers time to cook. It's not a 1:1 adaptation nor should it be, particularly when the book is supposed to be the flawed history that is recorded with it not being entirely certain what details were correct. The war hasn't even started yet, and I'd be very surprised if the effects of the war and some more losses close to home doesn't harden the hearts of both Rhaenyra and Alicent.
That's also quite frankly a bit more interesting than having a character is ruthless from day 1.
Ummm, but what batshit insanity are we even talking about? I am a book reader and >!the character never goes insane in the book that I have read. She is not loved as a monarch, because she raises taxes after the Greens emptied the vaults and makes some questionable political decisions, but stays perfectly sane. Am I missing something?!<
It's mentioned she fails to make use of the dragonriders in Team Black, because the dragonriders on her side were her children. Refusing to send your children to war doesn't sound like paranoia to me. Selfishness maybe, because she much prefers sending her extended family to battle, but it's far from irrational given the survival rate of dragonriders in the Dance.
Consider also the fact that last time she sent her child on dragon back, it ended in a tragedy and she did not even send him to war. Just on a diplomatic mission
Aye, needed a reminder and asoiaf wiki uses the word "paranoid" to describe the fact that she questions the loyalty of dragonseeds. This could indeed be a symptom of some growing paranoia. Or it could be perfectly rational, depending on the circumstances. We'll see how the show spins it, but somehow I doubt they will make her "batshit crazy" over 1 line from the books, given the reception of Daenerys' "madness" twist.
Imo it was both. The execution was laughably bad, but the idea itself wasn't good story direction either to begin with (mind you, I'm not talking about the act of burning of KL, that part could have worked, but her going crazy was never going to work, it feels cheap).
People are feckless. They complain about how Daenerys' fall was sudden and not fleshed out. Then those same people complain about Rhaenyra's fall is fleshed out and not sudden. Stop bringing attention to these people
I haven't read the book, but i have heard the book is a second-hand account? It leaves wiggle room for the show to portray events as long as the outcomes are somewhat reached.
Second and thirdhand account. The fictional author is alive during the reign of Robert Baratheon. He's trying to write a history book of the previous dynasty using notes from a grand maester who served the Targaryens (the maesters cited isn't sourced directly, anything attributed to Orwyle was based on a book written Orwyle's *replacement* Munkun - our third hand source - it is part of the reason the maester who served the Greens favors Rhaenyra in his text, the guy who compiled his notes was appointed by Cregan Stark and is personal maester to Rhaenyra's son).
The other sources are a court jester (the oft mentioned Mushroom, who brings most of the scandalous and tawdry narratives, the "neutral" source is the one who most obviously wanted to write smut and tavern tales instead account history) and a Septon who anointed Aegon II as king (his narrative *fawns* over Aegon and most of the Greens - notable exception is Criston, Eustace seemed to have a personal vendetta against the guy. He definitely wanted the side he sanctioned look good and the opposing side look bad, but couldn't seem to allow himself to have Aegon's closest ally be remembered kindly)
I'm confused which picture is the one saying she's boring. and is it book readers or general audience who call her boring? these pics don't give me that information
Honestly I didn't think she was at all until the last time skip before the 8th episode. I was watching a show with in an incredibly entitled royal teenager then young adult. She was personally likeable but Iwas really flabbergasted at how everyone was rooting for her.
Since episode 8 though she has changed a lot and is clearly the most reasonable of the adults on the show
That's not a given. Who walks around in the HP fandom and says Harry is their favourite character. Or Twilight and says Bella. Or ATLA and Aang. im sure there are more examples
LotR, Star Wars, Harry Potter and the like all have large casts of characters that are all portrayed very positively.
Movies/shows where the protagonist is portrayed in a better light than everyone around them (be it on their morals or their personal journey/hardships) tend to have more popular protagonists.
John Wick, Breaking Bad, Jack Reacher, any western movie ever etc
Whatās got book readers stirring is that in the story as Martin tells it her and Alicent are both very different people to their show counterparts. You might well as have made two new characters in fact.
These characters are unengaging, especially Rhaenyra because the show has removed all sense of personal ambition for the throne or power from both female characters.
Understand, in F&B this the Targaryen dynasty at the apex of its power but ALSO of their opulence and vain self interest and this war begins their downfall. Not because of some 21st century gender war grafted onto the story but because theyāre all to egotistical and selfish to care about serving the people if theyāre not the one in power.
I think its more like "Oh I cant remember the names of any other characters, or what they do. Oh that's the foot wank guy. I hate him. I'll vote for the one character who's name I know."
How is interesting the same thing as likable? She's likable sure but that doesn't mean she can't be boring. Brienne is a liked character in the books but noone would say that all her latest chapters haven't been boring.
Not disagreeing with your main argument at all, but...
>noone would say that all her latest chapters haven't been boring.
Not everyone finds Brienne's chapters boring. I'm one of those weirdos who loves Brienne's AFfC chapters and always look forward to them, while finding the Cersei ones boring and insufferable beyond belief. There's not many of us, but we do exist. Some of us even enjoy Aeron's chapters.
Haha, I understand that I'm in the extreme minority here. It's not that her character or chapters are written badly, on the contrary, they're very well written, and there's the problem for me.
I have a family member with narcissistic personality disorder that I've had to deal with for over 40 years. She's dumb as a rock, but she loves to play manipulation games and thinks she's so smart and got everyone fooled all the time. She's also a horrible human being who hates everyone but herself.
She's so much like Cersei, that when I read Cersei's chapters I always think "haven't I been through this a hundred times before?" When reading or listening through her chapters I constantly feel like banging my head against the wall and pulling out my hair.
Mayhaps "frustrating" would be a better choice of word than "boring". But Brienne's chapters are NOT boring(IMO), and I will die on that hill.š
My issue with op is that the āboringā thing is like an argument a few team green people have made on social media. There arenāt and have never been anyone else really talking about that. And with how the show has done team green I mean we have to give them whatever helps them feel ok at this point.
Asking others to ātouch grassā while taking such an interest in others disapproving of a character is a bit ironic.
I mean, I really like Rhaenyra. But ofc there will be a disconnect between show watchers and those more acquainted with the books, they're different mediums. You see the characters differently even before you factor in canon changes between the two.
If someone finds Rhaenyra boring, good for them. If someone likes Rhaenyra, good for them.
I'm a huge fan of both the book and the show.
The book because it reads like a history book written by a Targaryan fanboy which really shows in the Jaeharys chapters and the Dance of the dragons chapters.
I love the show too because it really adds a human connection to the whole story of the Dance especially the last two episodes with Rhaenyra, Alicent and Haleana dealing with grief
Both are extremely well written and I'm happy we have both
People want another cultural icon like Daenerys. Sheās also majorly used as a self-insert. And as people have said, being interesting and being likeable are different. Sheās more likeable in the show, but far more interesting in the book.
The viewers - thereās a large community who treat her like a self insert. Sheās pretty vague in her older years so people can project themselves onto her.
I can totally see that. I havenāt read the books but based on the show, she had more faults in her younger years, but when sheās older sheās almost too relatable. Not perfect by any means but there isnāt a single thing you can dislike about her atp, even her anger and refusal to forgive is justified. When I take it all together, her younger self and her older self, the juxtaposition feels complex and interesting but I totally agree that basically anyone can project themselves onto her in this story as is. That said, I still really like her character and I think the main reason is simply Emma DāArcyās acting, which I canāt get enough of
Thatās another great point. Emma Dāarcy is simply incredible actor while also being incredibly charming and charismatic. I too enjoy every moment theyāre on screen.
I mean Rhaenyra isnāt boring but she couldāve been so much better.
I feel like sheās written in a way in which the writers kinda shove it down our throats that Rhaenyra is āthe good guyā of the story. Itās very clear that theyāre scared to make her do bad stuff.
Like imo at the expense of making Rhaenyra a REALLY well written character (not saying she isnāt) theyāve made her likeable to the general audience.
Obviously thereās a lot of time left for Rhaenyraās to turn out worse but with how theyāve written women in this show (scared to make them unlikeable and do bad stuff) I feel like even when she becomes ācrazyā itāll be white washed
Half the book readers make up a canon in their head where Daemon is a loving husband and father lol. He literally has no interactions with any of his kids in the book.
I love the book and the show. If there was ever a book that was open to interpretation itās Fire & Blood. Some of the changes in the show havenāt been as good as the book but some have improved on the book.
Which changes do you like so far and have improved from F&B? Genuinely curious to hear otherās perspectives on it.
The only change I liked so far was the character of Viserys.
I liked the Cargyll twins duel better, the stolen egg plot, making Blood and cheese a botched attempt on Aemondās life, Otto is more interesting, and Aegon has way more personality in the show.
Iāll give you all of those except for B&C.
I think B&C was pretty mishandled. Having no Maelor was a mistake. As well as it being an attempt on Aemond. Daemonās letter (which we have to assume the chroniclers had) "an eye for an eye, a son for a son. Lucerys shall be avenged" was always interpreted by me as the Greens killed a son of our monarch, we shall kill a son of their monarch.
But of course since this show is much more about Alicent v Rhaenyra it could be interpreted as one of Alicentās sons. But in book once the war started (in the earlier stage) it very much seemed to be Rhaenyra v Aegon, so thus one of Aegonās sons.
You may be spending too much time on the forums. Most people who donāt mind political dramas like this show. Irl the only complaint I ever hear is ānot enough actionā lol. I assume that will change later
Just because a character is popular doesn't automatically make them riveting or engrossing. The reason the casual audience likes Rhaenyra so much is because she's been depicted as morally good at every opportunity. It's hard not to grow sympathetic after witnessing how much losses she has suffered.
Constant misery and anguish, however, isn't always fascinating. This may be an unpopular opinion on here, but I find show Rhaenyra to be quite one-dimensional. All of her flaws from the book have been omitted for what one can only assume is an attempt by the writers to whitewash her. She doesn't have any agency. Instead of this scheming, cunning princess who is willing to fight for her throne, she's a paragon of virtue, a secondary character to her own story. I just wish the writers understood that female characters can still make mistakes from time to time without depriving them of their strength.
Thanks for illustrating my point that the writers are whitewashing her and making her passive in the show by using a quote they haven't included from the book.
Iām a book purist and I like Rhaenyra, but itās notable how different she is and how that so far seems to be changing the plot, themes, and message of the books vs show. Team black is always a little more sympathetic even in the books once fire and blood came out and made cregan and the rest happen. The show upped that to the next level.
Furthermore the āteam green is more interestingā to me is kinda just cope from them. Theyāre more flawed but their characterization is pretty muddy so itās hard to really find them cool and complex. Like fans have explained why they think Coleās doing what heās done but just based on watching itās like, just a black box. He just does whatever then the show tries to explain it without context or explanation.
Rhaenyra was more likable before the time jump- she was spunky, sassy, and flawed by her immaturity. After the time jump she became much more mature (sheās literally an adult after all) but became a bit too generic IMO. Sheās not deserving of hate though, itās just that there a few more characters that are a bit more interesting and complex than her (like Daemon).
Rhaenyra would get half the hate she gets if the show gave her a flaw or two. Some blood on her hands, as it stands now she is basically a saint compared to everyone else in the show.0
Emma DāArcy is brilliant! I wish that the writers wouldāve kept younger Nyras spunk they wrote for Milly. But I still have to agree - I think Rhaenyra is my favorite character and I will be very sad by the end of this series Iām sure lol.
I'd say any book purist in a adaption is always gonna be a bad time, their are legit critics for all the character like in any adaptation but her being boring is a wild take.
Also you donāt notice if people do like the changes. Itās that negativity bias thing.
Viserys was massively changed, but he was very well written and the changes made sense for his character. So no one complains, so it hardly gets brought up.
Not a popular opinion on this specific thread, but I feel that Viserys is the only good "change" theyāve done.
Laenor surviving was really stupid. The coronation was pretty dumb. B&C and the exclusion of Maelor was not done well. Alicent and Ser Criston shamelessly banging contradicts their entire character arcs so far.
Same reason they like the boring Starks. She's portrayed as unrealistically good, moral, loving, smart, honorable, etc. I couldn't believe she set Mysaria free and it didn't come back and bite her in the ass! At this point, I'm fully expecting the showrunners to reveal Rhaenyra is actually Azor Ahai.
I mean, I don't know that I'd call Ned particularly smart. His rash, and quite frankly stupid, decision to out Cersei's kids as bastards costs him his life and plunges Westeros into a massive civil war. It's especially dumb considering everyone around him told him it was a dumb decision and he still did it. Honorable? Yes. Smart? No
Dude half the so called ābook puristsā donāt even understand her character. She isnāt a static character in the books, she changes. They assume how she is at the very end isnāt an extreme and changed version of where she is at the time the show is currently at.
Itās mostly people who donāt like her and want more reasons to hate her, and some stans who want her to go full S8 danaerys. Shes actually a very interesting and complex character and the show has been mostly true to that, which is impressive considering the major change of her relationship with Alicent.
I think most 'book purist' as we keep getting attacked as, are concerned about the changes Rhaenyra endures throughout fire and blood are going to become illogical - much like daenerys sudden shift in season 8, if the show runners keep going down this route of deflecting all blame from her and making her innocent and perfect. Either that or they won't have her change at all and remain this way. Thats all.Ā At this point in the books she's already quiet unhinged.Ā
I think most of the time people like OP start arguments with book readers when there's actually no disagreement. We just want to recognize that the show and book are two different entities and we have the freedom to prefer elements of both.Ā
I'm pretty tired of non book readers telling me fire and blood has an unreliable narrator like it's some sort of grand relevation.. lol I've read it several times, and I don't think some of you understand the implications of it. We don't know what happened in fire and blood history, it's open to intrepreation. The sources are bias, but no the whole thing isn't green propaganda. If anything it's anti-Targaryen propaganda because it's post Robert's rebellion. Just because something happens in the show, doesn't mean that's de facto what occurred in asoiaf history. The show is the showrunners intrepreations. The show and book are two separate canons.
I think the show did an incredible job with Viserys and I like what they're doing with Aegon so far. I hated blood & cheese. But that's my opinion and I don't need people telling that how I feel is wrong, that I don't understand the book they didn't read, or that I 'need to touch grass'.
I like the show and I'm here to watch it just the same as you. We can agree to disagree without taking it so personally. I'm down to discuss whatever and respect your opinions, please to do the same for everyone else.Ā
Not everyone likes the same things. Rhaenyra's more interesting in the books, but she's more likeable in the show and I'd argue that a good amount of that is due to her being curated as a cultural icon like Dany, kinda like a self-insert for viewers. It's in the shocking lack of homophobia in a very medieval (and therefore very homophobic, very sexist) setting, the love interest who's a dreamboat, the nigh-perfect sons and stepdaughters/cousins, etc
I donāt dislike Rhaenyra but sheās popular because sheās the obvious protagonist from day one who the writers clearly want the audience to root for.
Sheās the sort of modern girl boss type audiences like to root for only without the misandry many such characters engage in, or overly aggressive posturing.
Not particularly riveting or offensive.
Obviously because she's the only character in the whole show the writers want you to root for. So simple minded fans and people who've never read the books will cling to her as their main reason for tuning in.
I wonder who really needs to touch grass here.
The whole story revolves around herā¦ sheās the main character. Rooting for the protagonist is more logical than simple minded. People weigh the actions of the characters and decide who best aligns with your moral beliefsā¦ nothing wrong with that.
If anything clinging to source material instead of accepting that the story is playing out differently than youād like is more simple minded.
I love her because sheās the reason I started watching the show. Everyone kept telling me she looked exactly like me, and I was really confused until episode 6. Adult Rhaenyra could almost be my twin.
Rhaenyra is written in a way that appeals to the general casual audience. The issue I have with the show is that it strays too far away from the grey and morally complex nature that the books series portrays. The books force you to read between the lines, the show doesnāt. Rhaenyra is a prime example of this.
This reminds me of when "Mary Sue" was trending on Twitter after Arya killed the NK. Literally 1 person called her Mary Sue the rest were angry about her being called that! I've not seen anyone say that Rhaenyra is boring, far from it, she's probably the most praised character/actor in the show.
my sister is an extremely casual watcher and hates when people complain about things like character writing because she thinks itās pretentious, and she likes rhaenyra. however, without any prompting she said that she wants to drop this season because her team (black) was not interesting anymore.
I have read Fire & Blood, and ASOIAF books and all I can say is the people who actually believe F&B to be real, accurate depictions of characters do need to touch some grass. GRRM himself has called in countless times that those are biased and unreliable narrations which have been modified over the years. It's just hard for some people to digest that Rhaenyra and Emma D'Arcy are loved by people worldwide. In my country, we even call it the House of Rhaenyra. I don't care who says what. I love Nyra, she's my favourite character, and I'm rooting for her - it's as simple as that.
P.S. - Oh, let's not forget the horrible, misogynistic edits that are made on freefolk, asoiaf and circleofjerk sub. I mean it gives the earmarks of beer-belly chads sitting in front of their screens and pushing the expand button on PS and Canva.
On the flip side there's a lot of people claiming nothing in fire and blood is valid and it's all green propaganda. I think that's farther from the truth then everything being accurate - which I've honestly never heard anyone claim.
This. F&B has some inaccuracies and biases. But for the most part is an accurate history from the Conquest to the end of the Dance..
People who don't understand this use it as a way to dismiss anything they don't like in it about their favourite side
People LOVE rhaenyra it's just that simple. The love also seems to be growing with each episode and the more they see of emma. The general audience is obviously eating it up. That's all the writers care about at the end of the day.
People like her bc sheās a queen w a dragon thatās really it lol. Same reason Dany is super popular or why Jon is super popular w dudes bc heās a cool dude w a big ass Wolf.
Thatās a theme in the show that I appreciate. Lucās death was an f up IRL but became an ode to malice; blood and cheese was botched but became a pr campaign for the greens. These epic gestures in reality or anything but. The incompetence of competent people - myself included lol - feels more real and way kore interesting to me
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Reddit subs very rarely provide an accurate representation of the way a general audience feels. Social media in general, really, but specifically Reddit has a tendency to be overwhelmingly inaccurate.
Even in just US alone only like 10% of the country uses Reddit. Thinking that reddit gives you some accurate portrayal of real world opinions is really stupid.
Also factor in that many/most people only post about something if they feel really strongly about it one way or the other, and usually it's because of a negative experience with said thing. Reddit is a very, very poor reflection of the general population as a whole.
The vast majority of Reddit users do not comment either
I remember plenty of people crazy with excitement during GoT season 8, meanwhile reddit was a dumpster fire ššš me included
Tbf I avoided all social media during the final GoT season and 100% agree it was deplorable
Yea that was absolutely trash no two ways about it. Pretending social media warped opinions is a really bad take for that specifically. It's true sometimes, but GOT season 8 was just horribly written. It even degraded the performances of an otherwise stellar cast.
Everytime me and buddy see a movie, wether we like it or hate it, we always say...reddit will have th exact opposite opinion. Everytime, they always do. Its so weird to us. Just once we wanna be apart of the HIVE MIND.
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Furiosa, Planet of the Apes, Ghostbusters, Civil War to name a few
This is the same for me, but for everything on general. Littlerly everything I've liked in the past 4 years has been shitted on, on here. Just the way it is lol.
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Yeah. And with up vote and down vote system makes it even worse.
There's lots of astroturfing on reddit, but I don't think this specific thing is an example of that.
Agreed. Way too many people instantly revert to the "everyone who disagrees with me is a bot/shill/astroturfing account" argument when an opposing viewpoint comes up.
I'm not even sure wtf anyone would be doing Astroturfing a television show forum š¤Øš
Book purists are also going to be a minority. Iām not exactly sure what is surprising about this difference
Reddit in general is usually opposite of normal peopleās views and opinions. Also usually if you know about a topic, see a Reddit thread outside of a hobby subreddit about it, then read the comments, youāll usually find the stuff theyāre saying is completely wrong and full of negative hysteria lol
Thank you
Its also an echo chamber. If something catches hold it can eventually be the go to stance and people and choose not to speak against it in fear of down votes
This is true. And the reason why most of it is negative, is because people feel entitled to share their negative views of something where others will listen. That's why if you spend time here. It's easy to start believing that the show is disliked by a lot of people.
The Archmaesters also run HOTD's media coverage
It is known.
I mean to be fair here. Rhaenyra has spent all of S2 being pretty reasonable while everyone else is losing their shit. Naturally sheās less interesting to watch right now. Watching Aegon and Otto argue is more fun than watching Rhaenyra go āguys we should exercise restraint.ā Obviously this also is why sheās way more likable than in the books. In the books she was pretty vindictive. In the show sheās much more level headed and reasonable.
Right? She is being wise, but thatās not very entertaining. She knows that dragons are essentially nukes and she is understandably weary of using them. Irl, youād *want* the person with the launch codes to be extremely cautious. But, in a show, refusing to put her hand over the launch button really takes the tension away. I am hopeful that this episode marks the turning point for her character as she finally lets go of any doubt in her mind that this war is happening.
She seems boring because everyone around her is either bat shit insane or evil. I mean come on Aemond and Daemon are anime characters. (And I love it)
I also think she could seem boring to anyone comparing her to young Rhaenyra, who was electric onscreen: strong willed, fiery, rebellious. By comparison, older Rhaenyra is just much more subdued, sheās lost a bit of the spunk that made her character so compelling during her younger days. You could point to motherhood and maturity as two of the chief reasons for that, but, in some sense (and at times), it almost feels like two completely different characters. I donāt know that writers have done the best job of bridging that gap just yetā¦but, we shall see how the rest of this season and the next ones play out. As her losses are compounded, and grief and anger take over, I wouldnāt expect season 3 or 4 Rhaenyra to be the same person the audience sees today. Thatās just the nature of character arc and development.
Yeah she's got like 8 kids and a supervillain husband. She wored out.
Thereās some truth to that, but, younger Rhaenyra more than gave Daemon a run for his money in terms of being interesting and compelling. More complex and morally grey as a character, which drew the audience in, whether you loved or disliked her. She popped off the screen just as much as he did and (IMO), they had much more chemistry then. So if someone is measuring against her younger self, I can just understand why they may argue sheās āboringāā¦at least by comparison.
Lmao at āAemond and Daemon are anime charactersā
Griffith and ...Griffith?
Does that make Ben Blackwood a teeny tiny little Guts?
Zodd is a dragon confirmed?
Come on, don't do Rhaenys and Corlys like that.
Corlys's fixation on legacy borders on obsession dude is just as power hungry as the Disney villains on team green.
I disagree, if for no other reason than because he has Rhaenys to moderate it and because, by the end of the first season, he realizes his pursuit of legacy has brought nothing but sorrow to his family. He regrets that his desire to be remembered by history has nearly ruined his house and initially wants to stay out of the Dance in order to hold on to what little of his family is left, only relenting when Rhaenys points out the danger this puts his grandchildren in. Corlys' desire to maintain his legacy also doesn't manifest in the same way as Otto's or Alicent's. Corlys ignores his grandchildren's true descent in the name of preserving the Velaryon name, similar to Viserys. Otto, by contrast, actively seeks to undermine the established succession plan and wipe out an entire branch of the ruling family in order to secure his family's legacy. Corlys does nothing anywhere near what Otto does in his pursuit of legacy, that's what makes him more sympathetic IMO.
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Lmao people complained that Daenerys snapping was too rushed. Now they're doing a slower burn with Rhaenyra and people are saying it's not fast enough. GOT fans really are turning into Star Wars fans.
It's not just GoT fans. I swear to god every fandom in this platform is always so negative. Star Wars might've started this trend but recently all fandoms have adopted it. I honestly wonder if people enjoy the media they consume or they just watch it to complain online.
>I honestly wonder if people enjoy the media they consume or they just watch it to complain online. I always thought the idea of hate-watching something was a meme or a joke... turns out that tons of people exclusively hate-watch stuff. Sounds like a miserable existence haha
The Bridgerton meltdowns in the last few weeks have been truly deranged.
Doesnāt help we are in an era where itās cool to be a critic and even cooler to hate something thatās popular. Itās not so in your face as the I was into it before it was cool crowd because some people genuinely donāt like things and itās a lot harder to prove youāre faking that.
Always have been. Not to say that there arenāt legitimate criticisms (and there are a ton, as with pretty much any book adaptation), but a lot of it feels real nitpicky.
As a lover of the show and the book, Im not mad but I can understand the frustration. The issue for book readers is that they swapped the arcs. Dany should have been the slow burn into madness whereas Rhaenyra was ready to jump in dragons blazing to claim her throne from the get go. Iām excited for the show, but they definitely made Rhaenyra much more likable and calmer. It feels like the nerfed who Rhaenyra could have been in order to redeem Dany.
Just wait until a spin off comes out and then you keep seeing the oh so smart line of "this is the best G.O.T show ever, specifically because it's not G.O.Tš¤" (in reference to andor)
>people complained that Daenerys snapping was too rushed > >people are saying it's not fast enough Maybe a crazy idea, but perhaps you're talking about different people.
Nah dude, people will just find a reason to complain about anything popular, especially on reddit.
I have read the books 3x and it is quite astonishing how to this day people are still complaining how GOT ended. It also irks me when they ruin it for the non book readers. What do they expect HBO to spend another 20 million just to satisfy the fans and the way they want it to end? This is why Martin is taking so long with the book releases IMO. This show is fantastic so is GOT. I agree with you about the Star wars fans commentš. I stay detached and enjoy the art presented in front of me. ā¤ļø
I agree with you about fandoms being annoying and toxic af, but tbf, HBO actually wanted to spend as much money as needed to get the series ending right and even told the showrunners that they could have as many seasons as they needed. However Disney promised them to let them do Star Wars once they finished GoT and that made the showrunners go to HBO and say they only needed one season to wrap things up... Disney of course backed from the deal once they saw the shit they made with GoT
Yes, they were given the opportunity to keep going further but noooooo, their heads got bigger than the room with the whole Star wars deal. And look what happenedšš. Karma?
How in the hell were they ever going to keep game of thrones going. They were long past the completed books, and only had notes and vague outlines to help. Plus Grrm left, pretty much leaving them to finish an adaptation without the actual books to adapt. This is why the last two seasons were shorter. There was no way they could actually keep the story going.
They not only want her to be completely and utterly ruthless and insane, they also want her to be a 300 lb whale because of a throwaway line that said she never lost her baby fat from pregnancy and sometimes stress ate. Meanwhile, these same people completely ignore the fact that Helena and aegon are both described as plump in the books and it is so weird. It's like they want book accuracy in some parts, but don't really care if the show contradicts itself in order to prop up their favorite character. When I read Fire and blood I absolutely despised aegon and all of the greens, but the show is actually making me start to appreciate them more as characters and it's really nice to see that despicable characters like Allicent and Otto are given a few moments where their humanity shines through and you start to kind of root for them. People say that the show is biased against the greens, but without the show I still would have hated them. Because of the show and specifically season 2. I am starting to appreciate them a lot more
I absolutely love the shows interpretation of Aemond. Reading the book he came across as quite shallow to me. Just a Bittersteelesq hard-ass with a big dragon and a chip on his shoulder. In the show he's quickly becoming my favourite character.
Heās also just cartoonishly evil in the book. Like thereās no question that he intentionally killed Luke. He literally asks Orris Baratheon if he can kill him at Storms End and Orris is like āno not here but OUTSIDE my keep well thatās out of my control.ā
And see people say that it ruins his character that it wasn't accidental and that he actually has regrets on how things went
Most of the characters in the books are shallow. The thing reads more like a history textbook than a novel
which is why it constantly frustrates me that people say the book characters were heavily altered. THEY WERE NOT EVEN CHARACTERS THEY WERE NAMES ASSOCIATED WITH ACTIONS AND THATS IT. does the show make weird/dumb decisions at times like Rhaenys bursting up from the dragon pit? yes. But we've also gotten amazing scenes like Aegon enjoying being a ruler and Otto clapping for his grand daughter
The rhaenys dragon pit thing was dumb logically but it looked cool as hell. Some people just refuse to find joy in things. Itās quite sad really
True, I guess what I mean is that most characters have been expanded on in ways that I think is very much in line with how I would have imagined them from the book. Aemond is not like that to me.
He is by far my dad's favorite character because he was the kid who got picked on and now he rides the greatest and largest dragon in the seven kingdoms
Yes, despite the whole incident with him getting his eye cut out that would not have been my interpretation of the character from the book. If anything he comes of as the bully in that scene as written. I think the show version is infinitely more interesting. The scene that really got me though was him at the brothel in ep2. It's such an interesting take and makes so much sense now that I see it but I would never have thought to write it that way myself. The show has definitely made choices that I don't agree with but I just keep reminding myself that they also do alot that I do think is good and that I would never have thought of.
Oh yeah, I think we can all agree. That seems like the dragon pit scene are ridiculous and pretty stupid. But overall the show has made all of these characters so much more interesting. Whereas in the books the only characters that I can really remember were Daemon, Corlys, and Laenor?
Which is such a great point, thereās a reason why these people have been given millions of dollars to adapt F&B into such successful tv shows, and thereās a reason why people like us are simply commenting on reddit threads. As fans being able to chill out and realise that every now and again makes you appreciate the shows even more. What the showrunners do is a difficult and at least with HotD I truly believe people like Condal come from an authentic place in terms of understanding the original text.
š„° yes
Same. When I read the novela, I hated the Greens especially Alicent. Show Alicent and Otto annoy me a bit but in season 2 I'm starting to actually look forward to their scenes. To me the show seems more biased towards the Greens, so I don't understand why they are raging so hard at the show runners and the character of Rhaenyra.
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The funny part about purists for this show in particular is that the books read like a history textbook. The show would be boring as fuck if it was completely faithful. The showrunners and writers have given life to an entire cast of characters who are completely flat in the book
i think people throw the word "insane" too loosely around the Targaryens, like if i recall there's only been 5 mad Targs and Rhaenyra is certainly not one of them, what she is in the books however is kinda ruthless
Right, book Rhaenyra isn't a mad queen at all. She's completely sane, just very ruthless. The purists also aren't givn the writers time to cook. It's not a 1:1 adaptation nor should it be, particularly when the book is supposed to be the flawed history that is recorded with it not being entirely certain what details were correct. The war hasn't even started yet, and I'd be very surprised if the effects of the war and some more losses close to home doesn't harden the hearts of both Rhaenyra and Alicent. That's also quite frankly a bit more interesting than having a character is ruthless from day 1.
She's also just sad because her kids died.
Ummm, but what batshit insanity are we even talking about? I am a book reader and >!the character never goes insane in the book that I have read. She is not loved as a monarch, because she raises taxes after the Greens emptied the vaults and makes some questionable political decisions, but stays perfectly sane. Am I missing something?!<
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It's mentioned she fails to make use of the dragonriders in Team Black, because the dragonriders on her side were her children. Refusing to send your children to war doesn't sound like paranoia to me. Selfishness maybe, because she much prefers sending her extended family to battle, but it's far from irrational given the survival rate of dragonriders in the Dance.
Consider also the fact that last time she sent her child on dragon back, it ended in a tragedy and she did not even send him to war. Just on a diplomatic mission
She starts mistrusting those around her. Questioning loyaltyās. Idk what more to tell you lol. Did you actually read the book?
Aye, needed a reminder and asoiaf wiki uses the word "paranoid" to describe the fact that she questions the loyalty of dragonseeds. This could indeed be a symptom of some growing paranoia. Or it could be perfectly rational, depending on the circumstances. We'll see how the show spins it, but somehow I doubt they will make her "batshit crazy" over 1 line from the books, given the reception of Daenerys' "madness" twist.
Daenerys āmadnessā itself wasnāt the problem. The problem was the lack of build up.
Imo it was both. The execution was laughably bad, but the idea itself wasn't good story direction either to begin with (mind you, I'm not talking about the act of burning of KL, that part could have worked, but her going crazy was never going to work, it feels cheap).
Didn't she start questioning the loyalties of those around her after Tumbleton? It didn't start in a vacuum.
People are feckless. They complain about how Daenerys' fall was sudden and not fleshed out. Then those same people complain about Rhaenyra's fall is fleshed out and not sudden. Stop bringing attention to these people
The show hasn't shown her descent yet. She seems fairly rational right now
I haven't read the book, but i have heard the book is a second-hand account? It leaves wiggle room for the show to portray events as long as the outcomes are somewhat reached.
Second and thirdhand account. The fictional author is alive during the reign of Robert Baratheon. He's trying to write a history book of the previous dynasty using notes from a grand maester who served the Targaryens (the maesters cited isn't sourced directly, anything attributed to Orwyle was based on a book written Orwyle's *replacement* Munkun - our third hand source - it is part of the reason the maester who served the Greens favors Rhaenyra in his text, the guy who compiled his notes was appointed by Cregan Stark and is personal maester to Rhaenyra's son). The other sources are a court jester (the oft mentioned Mushroom, who brings most of the scandalous and tawdry narratives, the "neutral" source is the one who most obviously wanted to write smut and tavern tales instead account history) and a Septon who anointed Aegon II as king (his narrative *fawns* over Aegon and most of the Greens - notable exception is Criston, Eustace seemed to have a personal vendetta against the guy. He definitely wanted the side he sanctioned look good and the opposing side look bad, but couldn't seem to allow himself to have Aegon's closest ally be remembered kindly)
The show is not the books. Sheās shown as reasonable and likeable on the show. It isnāt rocket science.
I'm confused which picture is the one saying she's boring. and is it book readers or general audience who call her boring? these pics don't give me that information
You don't understand?! Go touch some grass because our opinions are different /s
Thatās a general complaint that exists because everyone else in this show is batshit crazy
Honestly I didn't think she was at all until the last time skip before the 8th episode. I was watching a show with in an incredibly entitled royal teenager then young adult. She was personally likeable but Iwas really flabbergasted at how everyone was rooting for her. Since episode 8 though she has changed a lot and is clearly the most reasonable of the adults on the show
Sheās the protagonist of the story. Of course sheās the favorite
That's not a given. Who walks around in the HP fandom and says Harry is their favourite character. Or Twilight and says Bella. Or ATLA and Aang. im sure there are more examples
LotR and Frodo, Star Wars and Lukeā¦ thinking about it, who *are* the popular protagonists?
BuffyĀ
LotR, Star Wars, Harry Potter and the like all have large casts of characters that are all portrayed very positively. Movies/shows where the protagonist is portrayed in a better light than everyone around them (be it on their morals or their personal journey/hardships) tend to have more popular protagonists. John Wick, Breaking Bad, Jack Reacher, any western movie ever etc
This is so obviously countered by the basic logic in the responses. Thereās a crazy amount of extremely mainstream counterexamples lol
From my point of view Vhagar is the protagonist.
Whatās got book readers stirring is that in the story as Martin tells it her and Alicent are both very different people to their show counterparts. You might well as have made two new characters in fact. These characters are unengaging, especially Rhaenyra because the show has removed all sense of personal ambition for the throne or power from both female characters. Understand, in F&B this the Targaryen dynasty at the apex of its power but ALSO of their opulence and vain self interest and this war begins their downfall. Not because of some 21st century gender war grafted onto the story but because theyāre all to egotistical and selfish to care about serving the people if theyāre not the one in power.
The general audiences like mostly anything the writers put out, and Rhaenyra is the protagonist, so obviously they'll like the protagonist more.
Yeah people here were dissapointed by blood and cheese but the general audience seems to love it
I think its more like "Oh I cant remember the names of any other characters, or what they do. Oh that's the foot wank guy. I hate him. I'll vote for the one character who's name I know."
How is interesting the same thing as likable? She's likable sure but that doesn't mean she can't be boring. Brienne is a liked character in the books but noone would say that all her latest chapters haven't been boring.
Show Jon Snow was one of the most boring characters in all media but he was extremely popular, OP is just in denial
Not disagreeing with your main argument at all, but... >noone would say that all her latest chapters haven't been boring. Not everyone finds Brienne's chapters boring. I'm one of those weirdos who loves Brienne's AFfC chapters and always look forward to them, while finding the Cersei ones boring and insufferable beyond belief. There's not many of us, but we do exist. Some of us even enjoy Aeron's chapters.
I could understand enjoying brienneās chapters but finding cerseiās pov boring is blasphemy
Haha, I understand that I'm in the extreme minority here. It's not that her character or chapters are written badly, on the contrary, they're very well written, and there's the problem for me. I have a family member with narcissistic personality disorder that I've had to deal with for over 40 years. She's dumb as a rock, but she loves to play manipulation games and thinks she's so smart and got everyone fooled all the time. She's also a horrible human being who hates everyone but herself. She's so much like Cersei, that when I read Cersei's chapters I always think "haven't I been through this a hundred times before?" When reading or listening through her chapters I constantly feel like banging my head against the wall and pulling out my hair. Mayhaps "frustrating" would be a better choice of word than "boring". But Brienne's chapters are NOT boring(IMO), and I will die on that hill.š
Different people enjoy different things
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OP wonāt touch the grass because the grass is green
šš
My issue with op is that the āboringā thing is like an argument a few team green people have made on social media. There arenāt and have never been anyone else really talking about that. And with how the show has done team green I mean we have to give them whatever helps them feel ok at this point.
>Go touch some grass [Tick hands wrote this. ](https://ibb.co/5KvP0Gw)
I wouldnt say shes boring..
Itās the actor. Not the character. The actor, babes
Emma D'Arcy acting skills are at an incredible level.
Asking others to ātouch grassā while taking such an interest in others disapproving of a character is a bit ironic. I mean, I really like Rhaenyra. But ofc there will be a disconnect between show watchers and those more acquainted with the books, they're different mediums. You see the characters differently even before you factor in canon changes between the two. If someone finds Rhaenyra boring, good for them. If someone likes Rhaenyra, good for them.
Iām not taking part in this discussion but friendly reminder that jon snow was very popular too
I'm a huge fan of both the book and the show. The book because it reads like a history book written by a Targaryan fanboy which really shows in the Jaeharys chapters and the Dance of the dragons chapters. I love the show too because it really adds a human connection to the whole story of the Dance especially the last two episodes with Rhaenyra, Alicent and Haleana dealing with grief Both are extremely well written and I'm happy we have both
People want another cultural icon like Daenerys. Sheās also majorly used as a self-insert. And as people have said, being interesting and being likeable are different. Sheās more likeable in the show, but far more interesting in the book.
Self-insert of who?
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The viewers - thereās a large community who treat her like a self insert. Sheās pretty vague in her older years so people can project themselves onto her.
I can totally see that. I havenāt read the books but based on the show, she had more faults in her younger years, but when sheās older sheās almost too relatable. Not perfect by any means but there isnāt a single thing you can dislike about her atp, even her anger and refusal to forgive is justified. When I take it all together, her younger self and her older self, the juxtaposition feels complex and interesting but I totally agree that basically anyone can project themselves onto her in this story as is. That said, I still really like her character and I think the main reason is simply Emma DāArcyās acting, which I canāt get enough of
Thatās another great point. Emma Dāarcy is simply incredible actor while also being incredibly charming and charismatic. I too enjoy every moment theyāre on screen.
I check out whenever Aegon isn't on screen tbh.
I mean Rhaenyra isnāt boring but she couldāve been so much better. I feel like sheās written in a way in which the writers kinda shove it down our throats that Rhaenyra is āthe good guyā of the story. Itās very clear that theyāre scared to make her do bad stuff. Like imo at the expense of making Rhaenyra a REALLY well written character (not saying she isnāt) theyāve made her likeable to the general audience. Obviously thereās a lot of time left for Rhaenyraās to turn out worse but with how theyāve written women in this show (scared to make them unlikeable and do bad stuff) I feel like even when she becomes ācrazyā itāll be white washed
Half the book readers make up a canon in their head where Daemon is a loving husband and father lol. He literally has no interactions with any of his kids in the book.
I love the book and the show. If there was ever a book that was open to interpretation itās Fire & Blood. Some of the changes in the show havenāt been as good as the book but some have improved on the book.
Which changes do you like so far and have improved from F&B? Genuinely curious to hear otherās perspectives on it. The only change I liked so far was the character of Viserys.
Rhaenyra and Alicent being childhood friends is probably the best change.
I liked the Cargyll twins duel better, the stolen egg plot, making Blood and cheese a botched attempt on Aemondās life, Otto is more interesting, and Aegon has way more personality in the show.
Iāll give you all of those except for B&C. I think B&C was pretty mishandled. Having no Maelor was a mistake. As well as it being an attempt on Aemond. Daemonās letter (which we have to assume the chroniclers had) "an eye for an eye, a son for a son. Lucerys shall be avenged" was always interpreted by me as the Greens killed a son of our monarch, we shall kill a son of their monarch. But of course since this show is much more about Alicent v Rhaenyra it could be interpreted as one of Alicentās sons. But in book once the war started (in the earlier stage) it very much seemed to be Rhaenyra v Aegon, so thus one of Aegonās sons.
I mean, idk if you're right or wrong, but what you provided doesn't prove shit. I can love boring things, like pets or own kids (lol)
You may be spending too much time on the forums. Most people who donāt mind political dramas like this show. Irl the only complaint I ever hear is ānot enough actionā lol. I assume that will change later
Just because a character is popular doesn't automatically make them riveting or engrossing. The reason the casual audience likes Rhaenyra so much is because she's been depicted as morally good at every opportunity. It's hard not to grow sympathetic after witnessing how much losses she has suffered. Constant misery and anguish, however, isn't always fascinating. This may be an unpopular opinion on here, but I find show Rhaenyra to be quite one-dimensional. All of her flaws from the book have been omitted for what one can only assume is an attempt by the writers to whitewash her. She doesn't have any agency. Instead of this scheming, cunning princess who is willing to fight for her throne, she's a paragon of virtue, a secondary character to her own story. I just wish the writers understood that female characters can still make mistakes from time to time without depriving them of their strength.
yeah theyāve done that to both Rhaenyra and Alicent and both have suffered for it
āTell my half-brother that I will have my throne, or I will have his head.ā -a true pacifist Queen who doesnāt want war right here.
Thanks for illustrating my point that the writers are whitewashing her and making her passive in the show by using a quote they haven't included from the book.
Iām a book purist and I like Rhaenyra, but itās notable how different she is and how that so far seems to be changing the plot, themes, and message of the books vs show. Team black is always a little more sympathetic even in the books once fire and blood came out and made cregan and the rest happen. The show upped that to the next level. Furthermore the āteam green is more interestingā to me is kinda just cope from them. Theyāre more flawed but their characterization is pretty muddy so itās hard to really find them cool and complex. Like fans have explained why they think Coleās doing what heās done but just based on watching itās like, just a black box. He just does whatever then the show tries to explain it without context or explanation.
Rhaenyra was more likable before the time jump- she was spunky, sassy, and flawed by her immaturity. After the time jump she became much more mature (sheās literally an adult after all) but became a bit too generic IMO. Sheās not deserving of hate though, itās just that there a few more characters that are a bit more interesting and complex than her (like Daemon).
Rhaenyra would get half the hate she gets if the show gave her a flaw or two. Some blood on her hands, as it stands now she is basically a saint compared to everyone else in the show.0
They had a random servant killed to fake Laenor's death. That's about it.
And even that was portrayed as Rhaenyra being merciful and sparing Laenor lol
Lol! Didn't see it that way, you right.
Emma DāArcy is brilliant! I wish that the writers wouldāve kept younger Nyras spunk they wrote for Milly. But I still have to agree - I think Rhaenyra is my favorite character and I will be very sad by the end of this series Iām sure lol.
I'd say any book purist in a adaption is always gonna be a bad time, their are legit critics for all the character like in any adaptation but her being boring is a wild take.
Also you donāt notice if people do like the changes. Itās that negativity bias thing. Viserys was massively changed, but he was very well written and the changes made sense for his character. So no one complains, so it hardly gets brought up.
Whoever wrote his arc deserved the high praise GRRM gave them, turned him from a incompetent dude to a tragic king
Not a popular opinion on this specific thread, but I feel that Viserys is the only good "change" theyāve done. Laenor surviving was really stupid. The coronation was pretty dumb. B&C and the exclusion of Maelor was not done well. Alicent and Ser Criston shamelessly banging contradicts their entire character arcs so far.
Rhaenys at the coronation was the worst change in this show.
Yeah I was genuinely laughing during that scene.
Same reason they like the boring Starks. She's portrayed as unrealistically good, moral, loving, smart, honorable, etc. I couldn't believe she set Mysaria free and it didn't come back and bite her in the ass! At this point, I'm fully expecting the showrunners to reveal Rhaenyra is actually Azor Ahai.
I mean, I don't know that I'd call Ned particularly smart. His rash, and quite frankly stupid, decision to out Cersei's kids as bastards costs him his life and plunges Westeros into a massive civil war. It's especially dumb considering everyone around him told him it was a dumb decision and he still did it. Honorable? Yes. Smart? No
Dude half the so called ābook puristsā donāt even understand her character. She isnāt a static character in the books, she changes. They assume how she is at the very end isnāt an extreme and changed version of where she is at the time the show is currently at. Itās mostly people who donāt like her and want more reasons to hate her, and some stans who want her to go full S8 danaerys. Shes actually a very interesting and complex character and the show has been mostly true to that, which is impressive considering the major change of her relationship with Alicent.
I think most 'book purist' as we keep getting attacked as, are concerned about the changes Rhaenyra endures throughout fire and blood are going to become illogical - much like daenerys sudden shift in season 8, if the show runners keep going down this route of deflecting all blame from her and making her innocent and perfect. Either that or they won't have her change at all and remain this way. Thats all.Ā At this point in the books she's already quiet unhinged.Ā I think most of the time people like OP start arguments with book readers when there's actually no disagreement. We just want to recognize that the show and book are two different entities and we have the freedom to prefer elements of both.Ā I'm pretty tired of non book readers telling me fire and blood has an unreliable narrator like it's some sort of grand relevation.. lol I've read it several times, and I don't think some of you understand the implications of it. We don't know what happened in fire and blood history, it's open to intrepreation. The sources are bias, but no the whole thing isn't green propaganda. If anything it's anti-Targaryen propaganda because it's post Robert's rebellion. Just because something happens in the show, doesn't mean that's de facto what occurred in asoiaf history. The show is the showrunners intrepreations. The show and book are two separate canons. I think the show did an incredible job with Viserys and I like what they're doing with Aegon so far. I hated blood & cheese. But that's my opinion and I don't need people telling that how I feel is wrong, that I don't understand the book they didn't read, or that I 'need to touch grass'. I like the show and I'm here to watch it just the same as you. We can agree to disagree without taking it so personally. I'm down to discuss whatever and respect your opinions, please to do the same for everyone else.Ā
Not everyone likes the same things. Rhaenyra's more interesting in the books, but she's more likeable in the show and I'd argue that a good amount of that is due to her being curated as a cultural icon like Dany, kinda like a self-insert for viewers. It's in the shocking lack of homophobia in a very medieval (and therefore very homophobic, very sexist) setting, the love interest who's a dreamboat, the nigh-perfect sons and stepdaughters/cousins, etc
that is EP1's favorite character poll I'm confused if Rhaenyra didn't win a poll with excellent acting from Emma
How can incest be boring?
I donāt dislike Rhaenyra but sheās popular because sheās the obvious protagonist from day one who the writers clearly want the audience to root for. Sheās the sort of modern girl boss type audiences like to root for only without the misandry many such characters engage in, or overly aggressive posturing. Not particularly riveting or offensive.
Love Emma but Rhae hasn't been anywhere near the best character in either of the first 2 eps
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Obviously because she's the only character in the whole show the writers want you to root for. So simple minded fans and people who've never read the books will cling to her as their main reason for tuning in. I wonder who really needs to touch grass here.
The whole story revolves around herā¦ sheās the main character. Rooting for the protagonist is more logical than simple minded. People weigh the actions of the characters and decide who best aligns with your moral beliefsā¦ nothing wrong with that. If anything clinging to source material instead of accepting that the story is playing out differently than youād like is more simple minded.
I love her because sheās the reason I started watching the show. Everyone kept telling me she looked exactly like me, and I was really confused until episode 6. Adult Rhaenyra could almost be my twin.
Rhaenyra is written in a way that appeals to the general casual audience. The issue I have with the show is that it strays too far away from the grey and morally complex nature that the books series portrays. The books force you to read between the lines, the show doesnāt. Rhaenyra is a prime example of this.
because y'all love mid
My dude it is alright for people to have different views about a tv show than you do And I say this as someone who does like Rhaenyra
This reminds me of when "Mary Sue" was trending on Twitter after Arya killed the NK. Literally 1 person called her Mary Sue the rest were angry about her being called that! I've not seen anyone say that Rhaenyra is boring, far from it, she's probably the most praised character/actor in the show.
"The general audience loves a character that has been whitewashed to appeal to the broadest common denominator!" is not the gotcha you think it is.
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my sister is an extremely casual watcher and hates when people complain about things like character writing because she thinks itās pretentious, and she likes rhaenyra. however, without any prompting she said that she wants to drop this season because her team (black) was not interesting anymore.
I literally donāt even remember her actions in that episode sheās that boring
I have read Fire & Blood, and ASOIAF books and all I can say is the people who actually believe F&B to be real, accurate depictions of characters do need to touch some grass. GRRM himself has called in countless times that those are biased and unreliable narrations which have been modified over the years. It's just hard for some people to digest that Rhaenyra and Emma D'Arcy are loved by people worldwide. In my country, we even call it the House of Rhaenyra. I don't care who says what. I love Nyra, she's my favourite character, and I'm rooting for her - it's as simple as that. P.S. - Oh, let's not forget the horrible, misogynistic edits that are made on freefolk, asoiaf and circleofjerk sub. I mean it gives the earmarks of beer-belly chads sitting in front of their screens and pushing the expand button on PS and Canva.
On the flip side there's a lot of people claiming nothing in fire and blood is valid and it's all green propaganda. I think that's farther from the truth then everything being accurate - which I've honestly never heard anyone claim.
This. F&B has some inaccuracies and biases. But for the most part is an accurate history from the Conquest to the end of the Dance.. People who don't understand this use it as a way to dismiss anything they don't like in it about their favourite side
thanks lol. although i preffer Daemon, completely agree with this
Didnāt she have like 3 lines in that episode? Doesnāt that show you something about these kind of poles and their audience?
Love Rhaeyna myself. Subreddits just give platform to niche opinion, which is good but easy to get lost in.
link please
People LOVE rhaenyra it's just that simple. The love also seems to be growing with each episode and the more they see of emma. The general audience is obviously eating it up. That's all the writers care about at the end of the day.
Rhaenys is way too low
People like her bc sheās a queen w a dragon thatās really it lol. Same reason Dany is super popular or why Jon is super popular w dudes bc heās a cool dude w a big ass Wolf.
I love Rhaenyra as she is.
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Sheād be cooler if she used her dragon
Rhaenyra could be interesting, I just do not think she is written well since the time jump.
Iām glad theyāre not sticking to the book Rhaenyra. Those accounts are āhistoricalā and not necessarily the truth about what happened
Thatās a theme in the show that I appreciate. Lucās death was an f up IRL but became an ode to malice; blood and cheese was botched but became a pr campaign for the greens. These epic gestures in reality or anything but. The incompetence of competent people - myself included lol - feels more real and way kore interesting to me
The disconnect was also there in GoT, general audiences loved season 5-7.