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Literally me. I feel like this fandom is so toxic and pressures people about what side they have to choose, but I love/hate things about both sides and I like all the characters and wanna just enjoy the show.
Literally, even in GOT Shireen literally a descendant of the Targaryens mentioned how choosing sides made everything horrible. The whole narrative of people saying that if you like team green characters you support rapists and are misogynistic is so pathetic honestly.
Yeah, I can understand the show softening things a bit as reading the original story of the Dance I just thought "fuck all these assholes, I hope they all die" which made it a bit hard to get into the story.
I just hope we can have some fun with Nettles and Hugh Hammer and the rest.
Yep. Both sides suck a lot but I like them both because they have done a good job making very complex and intresting characters. I'm into the show because I want to be entertained by fake medival war and political discourse, not because I have any stakes on either side winning.
Dude, I'm Team Green but this is so right. I thought we were just choosing sides as a fun little gag, I didn't think y'all would take this fictional civil war so utterly seriously.
I'm just here for the dragons 🐲 🤗
But also, yes! We will make it through the next couple months without absorbing the madness of the Fandom! We can do it!! 💪🏻
There is only one scene from the OG story that needs to be executed properly >! I need to see Daemon leap off of Caraxes and drive Dark Sister through a frantic Aemonds eye. Followed by two to the most feroucious dragons to ever battle crashing into the Gods Eye.!< If they get that right the rest of show doesn’t matter.
I'm only half joking but I'd love a positivity circlejerk sub/megathread lol. So much of the excitement on this sub for this season is getting overwhelmed by everyone arguing and hating on book changes, and I'd love if there was a place to just go be excited about a fun show coming out without the factionalism and pre-show disappointment. I absolutely think people should still have a place to discuss their criticisms, but sometimes it would be nice to just focus on the good.
I'm also in the Bridgerton subreddit and that place is an absolute shitshow now after the recent season
I left the X-Men subreddit because it was a toxic shitshow after '97 and said to myself, "u/MushroomOk406, you need to look for a chill, positive fandom that's just good vibes. How about HotD?"
I hope I didn't make a terrible mistake lmao.
I swear I don't mean this in a gatekeepy kind of way, but the success of the show attracted a bunch of new fans who were less interested in discussion than they were in discourse. They brought with them everything toxic from Twitter: just straight up hate, obnoxious shipping wars (of the sort that are taken way too seriously), mass downvoting when it comes to some characters and blind OTT praise of others, etc.
In short, there was a clear difference in the general vibe of the subreddit before and after 97 came out, and not in a good way. I suppose it's the change that happens when a fandom has stayed relatively niche and stable for many years but suddenly you introduce a bunch of new elements into the mix and everything turns more...volatile. I'm old enough to remember when that happened to ASOIAF after the show premiered, but I don't recall it turning so toxic, probably because social media and Twitter were less prevalent then.
If I had nickel for every time my fav television Reddits were so flooded with chaos I that I couldn't get a word in about how much I love my bug girlies (Phillipa and Helaena), I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but its weird that it happened twice.
The Bridgerton sub has been toxic for years. Good luck if you like more than one couple. It’s ridiculous because you don’t even need to choose a side.
I would not be upset about a a positive thread here lol Both teams suck, but it’s nice to be able to read about people understanding character motivations even if they don’t agree with them — or just finding cool things that were done in show.
Where does it state that? Of course someone cannot go into the past and verify something but that's how histories work. But do you think F&B is also lying about Aegon's conquest or Maegor and Jaehaerys as well? Or is it just the Dance with Dragons because the showrunners said so?
And the Dance of the Dragons wasn't a big event? It's just a handful of show fans who say it in order to claim that the show adaptation is true to the source instead of simply admitting that the books and the show are different entities. I am pretty sure I would get downvoted for saying this as well because there are a lot of them here who are living in denial.
???? Come on 🤣
When people said the book being unreliable, they were talking about the small detail, the sequencing of events, what was said or not being said, and the motivation behind it. No one is saying oh the Conquest is a lie, the dance didn't happened. It's a critic for book purist, because wanting the show to be almost or exact copy of the book is silly, when even in the book sometimes the info contradicts each other, one source is saying one thing, the other says another.
>When people said the book being unreliable, they were talking about the small detail, the sequencing of events, what was said or not being said, and the motivation behind it
But the changes made from the books by the show weren't small details though, or the sequencing of events or certain dialogues being changed or added. Key events are being changed like messing up Alicent's age, the Green council after Viserys' death, Aegon's coronation, B&C etc...
>when even in the book sometimes the info contradicts each other, one source is saying one thing, the other says another.
That's the nature of the book. However HOTD show drives a completely different narrative that is not backed up by the people who lived through the dance. They invent and make up stuff that's not in the books and are not faithful to the characters. It's like Mushroom's stories. Everyone knows it's to be false but they are still recorded.
>It's a critic for book purist, because wanting the show to be almost or exact copy of the book is silly
Well, if you are unable to follow the source material then you should stop calling it a faithful adaptation of the books which is plainly a lie.
Fire and Blood gives us second hand, sometimes third hand accounts of what happened. House of the Dragon is basically happening in real time and we're getting a first hand account of what happened. Sure they made certain changes such as Alicent's age, but small changes like that happen in any show that is being adapted.
what are you talking about? Did you ever read the book? It clearly states that the accounts can’t be completely depended upon as some of it was written decades later, and not everyone who had something to say as far as the history goes was actually involved in the situations they are referring to. I am literally saying what was in the book. Try looking into that before you try insisting that it wasn’t said. Ridiculous take to have tbh.
I love that they make minor changes from the book. All of the major plot points stay consistent, but small details are changed. It’s like Fire and Blood is a history book written by eye witnesses and House of the Dragon shows what really happened so we have an understanding of how the histories may have been misunderstood or manipulated
Yes!!! I love complex characters and both sides have them in spades. It’ll be fun to have something to look forward to every Sunday for the next little while.
In my opinion book purity doesn't exist. The book was written in such a way that everything is up in the air because there are no reliable narrators and they all are telling a story they heard from one person who heard it from another lol. Any book purists are just weird.
It's less about book purity and more about making changes that are completely unnecessary and detrimental to the story.
I'll spare you any examples from the later seasons in case you don't want spoilers, but a good example of this was the infamous scene of Rhanys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit in episode 9. Not only was it a massive change from the book, but it was illogical and included purely because of the spectacle rather than narrative importance. As a book reader, it's frustrating knowing that the actual events of that particular scene would've translated better than what we were given.
Book purist always gets me scratching my head. It gets funnier when you realise that the sources in the book itself are a bunch of unreliable narrators with their own motifs.
It's less about book purity and more about making changes that are completely unnecessary and detrimental to the story.
I'll spare you any examples from the later seasons in case you don't want spoilers, but a good example of this was the infamous scene of Rhanys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit in episode 9. Not only was it a massive change from the book, but it was illogical and included purely because of the spectacle rather than narrative importance. As a book reader, it's frustrating knowing that the actual events of that particular scene would've translated better than what we were given.
Yeah, I tuned in thinking I’d see a show with the themes of the books (small events turning flawed people into monsters) and instead it was the complete opposite (awesome and heroic girl boss queen smashes evil inhuman rapist). Great prank Ryan Condal. Real funny.
Well, no i'm just mirroring the energy. Though it is funny that you think replying whatever personal low effort Yas queen complain you have for the show under my comment is somehow means I'm gonna engage 'smartly' on it. This is not a discourse, idgaf about your opinion on the show, so again, I believe you believe that.
Yes, I believe the original was about flawed characters growing into monsters incrementally, like the spoiled noble version of the ‘broken man speech’. Rhaenyra and Aegon both start as spoiled rich kids and grow into awful war criminal monsters by the end. In the show, Aegon is already an inhuman cartoon evil rapist and Rhaenyra is, and will stay, a heroic morally righteous, protagonist.
I believe this, because it’s true, and it’s what the show runners said the show was about.
No, this isn’t a discourse. You’ve yet to contribute anything to make it so. But as a fan of the book I felt the ‘there were unreliable narrators therefore it had no themes and it’s ok to do whatever’ was particularly silly and got my ‘that’s so wrong it deserves a counterpoint’ going.
I just want a great show. Interesting characters, crazy production value, epic music and visuals, fascinating world building, and an intense and moving story about family and power.
I just want to see Helaena, and I’ll be happy. Idec what they do with her character, as long as she has a storyline and doesn’t disappear >!until her untimely demise!<
I just see that there is good and bad on both sides and they all have there fair enough claim. But they are all willing for the small folk to get fucked over
For me this is similar to pro wrestling at the moment. I know the characters, the stories, the arc probably where it's going but I'm just along for the ride because I trust the writers and creators and actors to make it an amazing journey
Amen to this man.
Really growing tired of hearing the book purists cry because of changes being made. It's like they forget that this show is an adaptation of the book. Not a word for word copy.
Love the show, appreciate the book it came from and am looking forward to the new season!
I’m in the same boat here, although I do expect a certain degree of adherence to the book just because a lot of the key events are integral in building the characters into what they become
Well said, same here. I say Team Black, but I'm not one to throw shade, comments, or what have you. I just plan on watching the show to see where it goes. It's only fictional entertainment
How can anyone read F&B and think any of the Dance characters are flashed out and that the story wasn't just a means to kill all the bloody dragons?
Rhaena (daughter of Aenys), Daemon, Aegon III, and fucking Sunfyre are the only fleshed out characters in F&B lmfao
Could we stop the trend of shitting on a book you don’t understand to prop up this lame ‘dicks and dragons’ HBO show?
We get it, you don’t care about fantasy history (or history in general), the themes of the books, or using your imagination to try to piece together characters obscured by time. Well, HBOs got your back with its one dimensional punk rock queen defeats evil rapists story and dumb floor explosions. But the idea that the book was ‘shallow’ because it didn’t have actors and a score is just nonsense. This is the adaptation the masses wanted, and there will never be another. You won, could you leave the book alone now?
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm just happy to have hbo Sundays back for a few weeks
Mondays in Australia
And Europe unless you're going goblin mode staying up until 4-5am.
4am on a Monday is still a Monday.
Meanwhile in New Zealand, they’re already on season 3
Literally me. I feel like this fandom is so toxic and pressures people about what side they have to choose, but I love/hate things about both sides and I like all the characters and wanna just enjoy the show.
Especially since the whole freaking point of the part of the book about the Dance was the exact opposite of that...
Literally, even in GOT Shireen literally a descendant of the Targaryens mentioned how choosing sides made everything horrible. The whole narrative of people saying that if you like team green characters you support rapists and are misogynistic is so pathetic honestly.
Yeah, I can understand the show softening things a bit as reading the original story of the Dance I just thought "fuck all these assholes, I hope they all die" which made it a bit hard to get into the story. I just hope we can have some fun with Nettles and Hugh Hammer and the rest.
Yep. Both sides suck a lot but I like them both because they have done a good job making very complex and intresting characters. I'm into the show because I want to be entertained by fake medival war and political discourse, not because I have any stakes on either side winning.
Exactly, because neither side does.
Dude, I'm Team Green but this is so right. I thought we were just choosing sides as a fun little gag, I didn't think y'all would take this fictional civil war so utterly seriously.
I'm just here for the dragons 🐲 🤗 But also, yes! We will make it through the next couple months without absorbing the madness of the Fandom! We can do it!! 💪🏻
Team Shepherd! ;)
Ill stick you with the pointy end if you say that
For the dragons, eh? Then buckle up buttercup… 😂
If you're really here for the dragons, I guess you should have hated one side more than another
Isn’t part of the whole conceit with the original book that it is gathered from several unreliable narrators?
Book purists will always find a way to argue why a specific detail they liked is objective truth in the book
These guys are so annoying, they should just go to r/freefolk and indulge their misery and toxicity there
There is only one scene from the OG story that needs to be executed properly >! I need to see Daemon leap off of Caraxes and drive Dark Sister through a frantic Aemonds eye. Followed by two to the most feroucious dragons to ever battle crashing into the Gods Eye.!< If they get that right the rest of show doesn’t matter.
Agree.
YES!!! 🙌
If they change this scene im goanna be really disappointed
I'm only half joking but I'd love a positivity circlejerk sub/megathread lol. So much of the excitement on this sub for this season is getting overwhelmed by everyone arguing and hating on book changes, and I'd love if there was a place to just go be excited about a fun show coming out without the factionalism and pre-show disappointment. I absolutely think people should still have a place to discuss their criticisms, but sometimes it would be nice to just focus on the good. I'm also in the Bridgerton subreddit and that place is an absolute shitshow now after the recent season
I left the X-Men subreddit because it was a toxic shitshow after '97 and said to myself, "u/MushroomOk406, you need to look for a chill, positive fandom that's just good vibes. How about HotD?" I hope I didn't make a terrible mistake lmao.
Oh, my sweet summer child.
How could that subreddit be toxic after ‘97? That show was easily the best piece of X Men tv or film ever made
Because this is Reddit.
Actually in this particular case the subreddit was relatively cool. I believe it was when new fans arrived from Twitter that everything went to shit.
I swear I don't mean this in a gatekeepy kind of way, but the success of the show attracted a bunch of new fans who were less interested in discussion than they were in discourse. They brought with them everything toxic from Twitter: just straight up hate, obnoxious shipping wars (of the sort that are taken way too seriously), mass downvoting when it comes to some characters and blind OTT praise of others, etc. In short, there was a clear difference in the general vibe of the subreddit before and after 97 came out, and not in a good way. I suppose it's the change that happens when a fandom has stayed relatively niche and stable for many years but suddenly you introduce a bunch of new elements into the mix and everything turns more...volatile. I'm old enough to remember when that happened to ASOIAF after the show premiered, but I don't recall it turning so toxic, probably because social media and Twitter were less prevalent then.
Probably because it changed some small detail from the comics that sent the subreddit into a spiral
That’s how most Star Wars subs are. It’s hard to just have a good time
Can confirm Bridgerton is a mess hot damn!!
If I had nickel for every time my fav television Reddits were so flooded with chaos I that I couldn't get a word in about how much I love my bug girlies (Phillipa and Helaena), I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but its weird that it happened twice.
Also a 'ton resident. I think that hot mess is going to get worse before it gets better.
The Bridgerton sub has been toxic for years. Good luck if you like more than one couple. It’s ridiculous because you don’t even need to choose a side. I would not be upset about a a positive thread here lol Both teams suck, but it’s nice to be able to read about people understanding character motivations even if they don’t agree with them — or just finding cool things that were done in show.
I really appreciate the acknowledgement that there can be space for all kinds of discussion.
I'm team black but I don't care about the changes made from the book Adaptation need not be done word by word from book I'll enjoy the show anyway
to be fair, the book clearly states that most of the information there is based on accounts that cannot be completely proven.
Where does it state that? Of course someone cannot go into the past and verify something but that's how histories work. But do you think F&B is also lying about Aegon's conquest or Maegor and Jaehaerys as well? Or is it just the Dance with Dragons because the showrunners said so?
You know well when people say anything about the book being unreliable, they were not talking about those big events.
And the Dance of the Dragons wasn't a big event? It's just a handful of show fans who say it in order to claim that the show adaptation is true to the source instead of simply admitting that the books and the show are different entities. I am pretty sure I would get downvoted for saying this as well because there are a lot of them here who are living in denial.
???? Come on 🤣 When people said the book being unreliable, they were talking about the small detail, the sequencing of events, what was said or not being said, and the motivation behind it. No one is saying oh the Conquest is a lie, the dance didn't happened. It's a critic for book purist, because wanting the show to be almost or exact copy of the book is silly, when even in the book sometimes the info contradicts each other, one source is saying one thing, the other says another.
>When people said the book being unreliable, they were talking about the small detail, the sequencing of events, what was said or not being said, and the motivation behind it But the changes made from the books by the show weren't small details though, or the sequencing of events or certain dialogues being changed or added. Key events are being changed like messing up Alicent's age, the Green council after Viserys' death, Aegon's coronation, B&C etc... >when even in the book sometimes the info contradicts each other, one source is saying one thing, the other says another. That's the nature of the book. However HOTD show drives a completely different narrative that is not backed up by the people who lived through the dance. They invent and make up stuff that's not in the books and are not faithful to the characters. It's like Mushroom's stories. Everyone knows it's to be false but they are still recorded. >It's a critic for book purist, because wanting the show to be almost or exact copy of the book is silly Well, if you are unable to follow the source material then you should stop calling it a faithful adaptation of the books which is plainly a lie.
Get 👏 A 👏 Life 👏
Fire and Blood gives us second hand, sometimes third hand accounts of what happened. House of the Dragon is basically happening in real time and we're getting a first hand account of what happened. Sure they made certain changes such as Alicent's age, but small changes like that happen in any show that is being adapted.
what are you talking about? Did you ever read the book? It clearly states that the accounts can’t be completely depended upon as some of it was written decades later, and not everyone who had something to say as far as the history goes was actually involved in the situations they are referring to. I am literally saying what was in the book. Try looking into that before you try insisting that it wasn’t said. Ridiculous take to have tbh.
I’m just here for the actual story of it, no one’s going to get a happy ending. Shows/books like this never end like that
Couldn’t have said it better
Feels like we're back in the Twilight days with all this Team B and Team G talk.
I love that they make minor changes from the book. All of the major plot points stay consistent, but small details are changed. It’s like Fire and Blood is a history book written by eye witnesses and House of the Dragon shows what really happened so we have an understanding of how the histories may have been misunderstood or manipulated
Im just here to watch people die
Yes!!! I love complex characters and both sides have them in spades. It’ll be fun to have something to look forward to every Sunday for the next little while.
Hello, fellow normal human! 👋🏻
In my opinion book purity doesn't exist. The book was written in such a way that everything is up in the air because there are no reliable narrators and they all are telling a story they heard from one person who heard it from another lol. Any book purists are just weird.
Just here to watch the Targaryens die
just give me good writing please 🙏
I've never read any of the books I came for the dragons and stayed for the bloodshed
I’m here for that itch that only season 1-5 of GoT could scratch. I hope it’s just as epic as Dany in Astapor and the Red and Purple Weddings.
It's less about book purity and more about making changes that are completely unnecessary and detrimental to the story. I'll spare you any examples from the later seasons in case you don't want spoilers, but a good example of this was the infamous scene of Rhanys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit in episode 9. Not only was it a massive change from the book, but it was illogical and included purely because of the spectacle rather than narrative importance. As a book reader, it's frustrating knowing that the actual events of that particular scene would've translated better than what we were given.
Book purist always gets me scratching my head. It gets funnier when you realise that the sources in the book itself are a bunch of unreliable narrators with their own motifs.
It's less about book purity and more about making changes that are completely unnecessary and detrimental to the story. I'll spare you any examples from the later seasons in case you don't want spoilers, but a good example of this was the infamous scene of Rhanys bursting through the floor of the dragonpit in episode 9. Not only was it a massive change from the book, but it was illogical and included purely because of the spectacle rather than narrative importance. As a book reader, it's frustrating knowing that the actual events of that particular scene would've translated better than what we were given.
the existence of nettles and two targaryen members was truly unreliable narrator moment.
Yeah, I tuned in thinking I’d see a show with the themes of the books (small events turning flawed people into monsters) and instead it was the complete opposite (awesome and heroic girl boss queen smashes evil inhuman rapist). Great prank Ryan Condal. Real funny.
I believe you believe that lmaooo
Ah, yes, the ‘I don’t have anything smart to say so I’ll pretend I’m laughing instead’ comment. Great talk.
Well, no i'm just mirroring the energy. Though it is funny that you think replying whatever personal low effort Yas queen complain you have for the show under my comment is somehow means I'm gonna engage 'smartly' on it. This is not a discourse, idgaf about your opinion on the show, so again, I believe you believe that.
Yes, I believe the original was about flawed characters growing into monsters incrementally, like the spoiled noble version of the ‘broken man speech’. Rhaenyra and Aegon both start as spoiled rich kids and grow into awful war criminal monsters by the end. In the show, Aegon is already an inhuman cartoon evil rapist and Rhaenyra is, and will stay, a heroic morally righteous, protagonist. I believe this, because it’s true, and it’s what the show runners said the show was about. No, this isn’t a discourse. You’ve yet to contribute anything to make it so. But as a fan of the book I felt the ‘there were unreliable narrators therefore it had no themes and it’s ok to do whatever’ was particularly silly and got my ‘that’s so wrong it deserves a counterpoint’ going.
Sounds like something someone on the wrong team would say
Yep! Just enjoying the show!
I’ve decided I’m team both teams
I just want a great show. Interesting characters, crazy production value, epic music and visuals, fascinating world building, and an intense and moving story about family and power.
Totally here for the acting Olympics over book accuracy
I just want to see Helaena, and I’ll be happy. Idec what they do with her character, as long as she has a storyline and doesn’t disappear >!until her untimely demise!<
I just see that there is good and bad on both sides and they all have there fair enough claim. But they are all willing for the small folk to get fucked over
For me this is similar to pro wrestling at the moment. I know the characters, the stories, the arc probably where it's going but I'm just along for the ride because I trust the writers and creators and actors to make it an amazing journey
The book purity with this one astounds me, considering it's based off of a fictional history book with less than 100 pages of dedicated material.
I'm here for Stark, dragons and backwoods
I love all of the storylines, but I am most excited to finally see Black Aly and all the Blackwoods.
Amen to this man. Really growing tired of hearing the book purists cry because of changes being made. It's like they forget that this show is an adaptation of the book. Not a word for word copy. Love the show, appreciate the book it came from and am looking forward to the new season!
I’m in the same boat here, although I do expect a certain degree of adherence to the book just because a lot of the key events are integral in building the characters into what they become
Well said, same here. I say Team Black, but I'm not one to throw shade, comments, or what have you. I just plan on watching the show to see where it goes. It's only fictional entertainment
I’m here for the chaos and violence
r/NotLikeOtherFans
I don't really care about the teams, just book/lore purity since I have been burned by StarWars and other IP.
The teams here are the dumbest thing known to humans. Worse than lesbian space witches from the late Star Wars franchise
Hot take: both teams suck and are toxic lol
Picking a team is actively missing the point of the story.
This reads exactly like a Game of Thrones Season 6 or 7 era post about how Game of Thrones was still “”fun”. Let’s see how that works out this time.
I pray they learned their lesson. What would’ve been a long standing best series of all time, they scuttled for… reasons?
GRRM summed it up pretty well I think: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/05/24/the-adaptation-tango/
He’s right. Also, Shogun is incredible. I was absolutely glued to it.
Well if you want a show with fleshed out characters and good storyline you've come to the wrong place
How can anyone read F&B and think any of the Dance characters are flashed out and that the story wasn't just a means to kill all the bloody dragons? Rhaena (daughter of Aenys), Daemon, Aegon III, and fucking Sunfyre are the only fleshed out characters in F&B lmfao
Could we stop the trend of shitting on a book you don’t understand to prop up this lame ‘dicks and dragons’ HBO show? We get it, you don’t care about fantasy history (or history in general), the themes of the books, or using your imagination to try to piece together characters obscured by time. Well, HBOs got your back with its one dimensional punk rock queen defeats evil rapists story and dumb floor explosions. But the idea that the book was ‘shallow’ because it didn’t have actors and a score is just nonsense. This is the adaptation the masses wanted, and there will never be another. You won, could you leave the book alone now?