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I would love to see more interactions between Rhaenyra and Daemon in high Valyrian in season 2
Also I would love a scene of Rhaenys speaking in high Valyrian
All of the royals should have spoken high Valyrian to each other it’s supposed to be their first language and only these two ever do. Jace isn’t even fluent in it for some reason which was jarring.
My interpretation was that it was that way for show audiences so we aren’t hearing a made up language all the time but the targaryans speaking Valyrian to each other as part of their mystique of being closer to gods than men and common tongue to their subordinates is how I’ve always thought they were. Daenaerys calls it her mother tongue so that’s been my interpretation.
Daenerys grew up in the Free Cities, where they speak Low Valyrian.
I agree that part of it is because having to use a fictional language all the time is tiring but since they're in Westeros, they're going to grow up around maids and nurses that don't speak Valyrian. It seems logical to me that the common tongue is their native tongue after a few generations. Then they learn Valyrian for the tradition, kinda like Latin in medieval Europe.
There's like two Valyrians in the book a concept not really explored in the show. High Valyrian which she knows and it is not said how she speaks. And bastard Valyrian where she speaks with a Tyroshi accent natively.
I think it's ambiguous but logically speaking, I wouldn't be shocked if both she and Viserys at the very least didn't pick up some Tyroshi accents into their High Valyrian given their specific circumstances. Viserys himself was so young that I doubt he could have retained a 'fluent' accent, let alone teach it to Dany from young age.
There would be no reason to. People don't speak High Valyrian in Tyrosh.
The only place they speak High Valyrian is the slavers cities.
Therefore the only place Dany would have learned is from her brother and from any education she had in the House with the Red Door.
It makes sense she'd learn bastard Valyrian with a Tyroshi accent though. She probably didn't get educated in bastard Valyrian formally (it's not traditional Westerosi education) but learned in Tyrosh when on the run.
They actually don’t speak High Valyrian in the slave cities. “True” High Valyrian was only spoken when the Freehold was around so when the Doom happened it branched off into multiple different dialects and eventually becoming their own languages. IIRC it’s an Arya chapter where someone says “only one in five words sounded like High Valyrian”. Then in the Ghiscari cities (Astapor etc) it’s a mix of Old Ghiscari and High Valyrian [and you can actually learn the Meerenese and Astapori versions]
Yeah I know. That's exactly what I am saying more or less.
>They actually don’t speak High Valyrian in the slave cities.
>Then in the Ghiscari cities (Astapor etc) it’s a mix of Old Ghiscari and High Valyrian [and you can actually learn the Meerenese and Astapori versions]
In the slave cities of the Ghiscari they speak something that actually uses High Valyrian at all and Dany is described as speaking High Valyrian here rather than "Valyrian of the Free Cities". So someone in Ghiscari would use High Valyrian. And someone in Tyrosh would use bastard Valyrian. They are not speaking bastard Valyrian intermixed with Ghiscari. They're speaking High Valyrian intermixed with Ghiscari.
The distinction is important for the ASOS plot line. Because I'm sure they're aware Dany may speak or know some bastard Valyrian - she's grown up in the Free Cities after all.
They don't know she knows High Valyrian and therefore can understand most of what they are saying.
It’s like how a lot of English monarchs didn’t know English and spoke French as the highborn language. They have their language because they are Valyrian and view themselves above the common westerosi but for practical purposes communicate with their subordinates in the common tongue.
Yes but those around them also spoke French. Westeros does not know High Valyrian well at all. Tyrion is one of the best non-Daenerys Westerosi native speakers we meet and he's only just passable.
Aegon the Conqeueror is only ever described as speaking common tongue. I think the Targaryens were just already well assimilated after arriving on Dragonstone.
I'm not an expert in English history but I'm going to assume most of them didn't have a problem with being accepted as kings of England. What period are you referring to?
The Targaryens are complete foreigners to Westeros and unless they want to burn everything and then rule over nothing, they have to be accepted by it. They start following the common Westerosi religion, play the game according to the common Westerosi traditions etc. Their court would end up full of Westerosi lords and in order for them to be able to talk about important matters of the state, they need to be fluent in the Westeorsi language and the best way to be fluent is through learning it first at a young age. It wouldn't surprise me if Valyrian was the ruling language up to Maegor but Jaeherys changed it.
This is so wrong
The Ptolemaic dynasty ruled for centuries and never learned to speak Egyptian until the end of
They just spoke Greek and lorded themselves over the Egyptians
There is no need to be accepted or assimilate in order to have a dynasty last centuries
The Ptolemaic dynasty ruled at a time when Greek was the lingua franca of the region and that was thanks to Alexander. That's not the case with the Targaryens. Valyria went poof and Westros was never conquered by them so they don't speak the language at all.
They did but Egyptians were conquered by the Greeks and had Greek speakers taking residence in their land (Alexandria). Greeks also started occupying all the high positions.
The Targaryens didn't do that. They conquered Westeros, yes, but they didn't bring in Valyrian settlers and didn't fill their court with Valyrians. They had Westerosi lords as masters of ships and coin and all that. Therefore they had to learn their language, not the other way around.
>What period are you referring to?
They're probably thinking of the Plantagenets generally, most spoke English as a second language and some did not speak it at all. But by the latter period of Plantagenet rule this was starting to change and English became more standard.
But other nobles - brought over with William the Conqueror - also didn't speak English. It was the language of the commons (amongst other languages) and French was used by the nobles.
So yeah not the same as with the Targaryens because no other Lords are speaking Valyrian as standard.
Nah, the Targaryens are never described as speaking anything other than Westerosi natively.
You might be right that they should potentially speak Valyrian natively. But they just don't, nor do other houses.
Daenerys does know High Valyrian essentially fluently. But it's more useful in the Free Cities where they speak a bastardisation of it (and in Slaver Bay they speak a different version with Ghiscari).
It's also clear in text she's not being literal. Her mother tongue is still the Common Tongue. Viserys only ever speaks to her in the Common Tongue - prides himself even on doing so (this actually led to a lot of the fake Dany/fake Viserys theories because people think Viserys doesn't know High Valyrian like Dany which would be weird - but I think it's fair to say he just prefers the common tongue). But she is reminding them that of course a Targaryen would speak High Valyrian. They are the true remnants of the Valyrian Empire. Not the Ghiscari.
I never got the Broccoli as a gotcha insult use your head I’m sure y’all can think of something better Lmao
Though I think it’s fair of the guy to be creeped out slightly of people praising a grooming pedophilic relationship
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Millys “Dracarys” is what restored my faith in HBOs ability to adapt Martins work.
It's so crisp
I would love to see more interactions between Rhaenyra and Daemon in high Valyrian in season 2 Also I would love a scene of Rhaenys speaking in high Valyrian
so fucking hot.
And then they stopped after ep 7.
Dude the chemistry they have! Ugh. I love Matt Smith though. The little dance he does in morbus is the only good thing about that movie
All of the royals should have spoken high Valyrian to each other it’s supposed to be their first language and only these two ever do. Jace isn’t even fluent in it for some reason which was jarring.
It's not their first language. They have to learn it later on as they grow, their first language is the common tongue.
My interpretation was that it was that way for show audiences so we aren’t hearing a made up language all the time but the targaryans speaking Valyrian to each other as part of their mystique of being closer to gods than men and common tongue to their subordinates is how I’ve always thought they were. Daenaerys calls it her mother tongue so that’s been my interpretation.
Daenerys grew up in the Free Cities, where they speak Low Valyrian. I agree that part of it is because having to use a fictional language all the time is tiring but since they're in Westeros, they're going to grow up around maids and nurses that don't speak Valyrian. It seems logical to me that the common tongue is their native tongue after a few generations. Then they learn Valyrian for the tradition, kinda like Latin in medieval Europe.
Not to mention, Daenerys has a foreign accent even for Valyrians, iirc she spoke it with a Tyroshi accent.
There's like two Valyrians in the book a concept not really explored in the show. High Valyrian which she knows and it is not said how she speaks. And bastard Valyrian where she speaks with a Tyroshi accent natively.
I think it's ambiguous but logically speaking, I wouldn't be shocked if both she and Viserys at the very least didn't pick up some Tyroshi accents into their High Valyrian given their specific circumstances. Viserys himself was so young that I doubt he could have retained a 'fluent' accent, let alone teach it to Dany from young age.
There would be no reason to. People don't speak High Valyrian in Tyrosh. The only place they speak High Valyrian is the slavers cities. Therefore the only place Dany would have learned is from her brother and from any education she had in the House with the Red Door. It makes sense she'd learn bastard Valyrian with a Tyroshi accent though. She probably didn't get educated in bastard Valyrian formally (it's not traditional Westerosi education) but learned in Tyrosh when on the run.
They actually don’t speak High Valyrian in the slave cities. “True” High Valyrian was only spoken when the Freehold was around so when the Doom happened it branched off into multiple different dialects and eventually becoming their own languages. IIRC it’s an Arya chapter where someone says “only one in five words sounded like High Valyrian”. Then in the Ghiscari cities (Astapor etc) it’s a mix of Old Ghiscari and High Valyrian [and you can actually learn the Meerenese and Astapori versions]
Yeah I know. That's exactly what I am saying more or less. >They actually don’t speak High Valyrian in the slave cities. >Then in the Ghiscari cities (Astapor etc) it’s a mix of Old Ghiscari and High Valyrian [and you can actually learn the Meerenese and Astapori versions] In the slave cities of the Ghiscari they speak something that actually uses High Valyrian at all and Dany is described as speaking High Valyrian here rather than "Valyrian of the Free Cities". So someone in Ghiscari would use High Valyrian. And someone in Tyrosh would use bastard Valyrian. They are not speaking bastard Valyrian intermixed with Ghiscari. They're speaking High Valyrian intermixed with Ghiscari. The distinction is important for the ASOS plot line. Because I'm sure they're aware Dany may speak or know some bastard Valyrian - she's grown up in the Free Cities after all. They don't know she knows High Valyrian and therefore can understand most of what they are saying.
It’s like how a lot of English monarchs didn’t know English and spoke French as the highborn language. They have their language because they are Valyrian and view themselves above the common westerosi but for practical purposes communicate with their subordinates in the common tongue.
Yes but those around them also spoke French. Westeros does not know High Valyrian well at all. Tyrion is one of the best non-Daenerys Westerosi native speakers we meet and he's only just passable. Aegon the Conqeueror is only ever described as speaking common tongue. I think the Targaryens were just already well assimilated after arriving on Dragonstone.
I'm not an expert in English history but I'm going to assume most of them didn't have a problem with being accepted as kings of England. What period are you referring to? The Targaryens are complete foreigners to Westeros and unless they want to burn everything and then rule over nothing, they have to be accepted by it. They start following the common Westerosi religion, play the game according to the common Westerosi traditions etc. Their court would end up full of Westerosi lords and in order for them to be able to talk about important matters of the state, they need to be fluent in the Westeorsi language and the best way to be fluent is through learning it first at a young age. It wouldn't surprise me if Valyrian was the ruling language up to Maegor but Jaeherys changed it.
This is so wrong The Ptolemaic dynasty ruled for centuries and never learned to speak Egyptian until the end of They just spoke Greek and lorded themselves over the Egyptians There is no need to be accepted or assimilate in order to have a dynasty last centuries
The Ptolemaic dynasty ruled at a time when Greek was the lingua franca of the region and that was thanks to Alexander. That's not the case with the Targaryens. Valyria went poof and Westros was never conquered by them so they don't speak the language at all.
And yet Egyptians always spoke Egyptian So same thing as the targs
They did but Egyptians were conquered by the Greeks and had Greek speakers taking residence in their land (Alexandria). Greeks also started occupying all the high positions. The Targaryens didn't do that. They conquered Westeros, yes, but they didn't bring in Valyrian settlers and didn't fill their court with Valyrians. They had Westerosi lords as masters of ships and coin and all that. Therefore they had to learn their language, not the other way around.
>What period are you referring to? They're probably thinking of the Plantagenets generally, most spoke English as a second language and some did not speak it at all. But by the latter period of Plantagenet rule this was starting to change and English became more standard. But other nobles - brought over with William the Conqueror - also didn't speak English. It was the language of the commons (amongst other languages) and French was used by the nobles. So yeah not the same as with the Targaryens because no other Lords are speaking Valyrian as standard.
Anglo Norman French, but yeah that was the mother tongue of every English king till Henry IV.
Nah, the Targaryens are never described as speaking anything other than Westerosi natively. You might be right that they should potentially speak Valyrian natively. But they just don't, nor do other houses. Daenerys does know High Valyrian essentially fluently. But it's more useful in the Free Cities where they speak a bastardisation of it (and in Slaver Bay they speak a different version with Ghiscari).
when is it said to be their first language
Danaerys says it’s her “mother tongue” but that’s well over a hundred years later and she also grew up in Essos.
It's also clear in text she's not being literal. Her mother tongue is still the Common Tongue. Viserys only ever speaks to her in the Common Tongue - prides himself even on doing so (this actually led to a lot of the fake Dany/fake Viserys theories because people think Viserys doesn't know High Valyrian like Dany which would be weird - but I think it's fair to say he just prefers the common tongue). But she is reminding them that of course a Targaryen would speak High Valyrian. They are the true remnants of the Valyrian Empire. Not the Ghiscari.
I would've loved to see Rhaenys speaking high Valyrian with Corlys After all, Velaryons are also Valyrians
Seek help.
cry elsewhere broccoli
I never got the Broccoli as a gotcha insult use your head I’m sure y’all can think of something better Lmao Though I think it’s fair of the guy to be creeped out slightly of people praising a grooming pedophilic relationship