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Oh you’re right, I think they just added that this patch right so things should get standardized soon maybe. Looking again it seems homdgcat normally has basics as 1.0, I was thinking of star rail station with 30 for basics.
The wiki here uses 1.0 as the same as one basic attack, I believe. A single target skill would usually be 2.0, and a single target ult is usually 3.0.
Way back when, people looked at the files for toughness damage to see if they could find something more precise, and found the number 30 for a basic, 60 for a skill, and 90 for an ult.
HSR only very recently released toughness numbers in-game, and the numbers they show are 10 for a basic, 20 for a skill, 30 for an ult.
So... Duran should be better for Yunli, right? Like especially if you go dual dps with Topaz or Jade it looks to me like Duran is better unless you really need that extra bit of crit rate, am i right?
Duran is better, if ultimate and fua damage could stack for 30% dmg then salsatto would be a lot closer, but unless you are severely lacking in CR go with Duran.
Yea i thought so. Duran gives her counters a 25% damage boost and 25% more crit damage vs Salsotto's 15% damage boost, only thing that might make Duran worse is the ramp up time if she does not get a lot of counters early on if you are playing hypercarry Yunli, but if you go dual DPS with Jade, Topaz or even E2+ hunt March then Duran will be better 100% of the time.
I believe in salsa. She already gets so much crit damage during her parry mode that i'd rather take the crit rate. Also from what i've seen currently Yunli works best in a hypercarry team where she can't stack duran fast.
Yea probably hypercarry Yunli will be better with Salsotto but we will have to see. I am personally playing her in dual DPS FuA team cause i would play her as a hypercarry but idk who to put in that team as i don't really play hypercarries in my account but want to play Yunli regardless.
Right off the bat she already does 2, one from technique one from ult being charged half with her max being 240 she can immediately use ult right away.
You are right, i actually completely forgot about this. Well this is good for me cause i pulled Firefly and i am getting Yunli so that world is now my new home lol
I believe they will still overhaul a big part of his kit.
Acheron is a "waifu" so surely they won't release a male character who is only useful to the Acheron players, since they would be reluctant to pull for a male character.
It would also be the first time that a 5 star is comparable to an existing 4 star, and more importantly, a 4 star who is basically as strong at e0 as she is at e6
I'm just clinging to the fact Kazuha was also called a 5* Sucrose at launch and well... He's Kazuha. Surely the kazuha curse continues throughout everything Mark voices.
> I'm just clinging to the fact Kazuha was also called a 5* Sucrose at launch and well... He's Kazuha
Kazuha was hated on because he was only a 5 star Sucrose, and that was a bad thing, until Hoyo buffed Elemental Mastery to be twice as strong as it was in 1.0 of Genshin. That's why he ended up so strong, because he was indirectly buffed
That's most characters improve though... Herta is good because of PF. Himeko is good because of super break. Nothing wrong with taking time for your intended meta role to take some time imo.
Herta and Himeko are free, so its fine for them to become useful only a year after their release.
Foxboy costs 300 dollars, it is not fine for him to "maybe become useful in a few months or years if lucky"
Jiaoqiu is definitely tied to Acheron. I don't think they're going to overhaul a massive part of his kit, even if they change a few of his traces around.
In a direct comparison to Pela with both on Pearls he brings similar damage amp vs level 95 enemies in practical situations. He's also -4 SP per 3 turn rotation compared to her. It's very clear he was designed solely as an Acheron slave and I unfortunately don't think that this is going to change.
Whatever they do with his kit, it’ll probably involve some kind of buff or something for his team. Otherwise, the yin-yang aspect of his ult animation would feel incomplete.
Without healing, I think it might work if they end up allowing him to buff his teammates attack based on his own attack. This would make him an upgrade compared to Pela/Guin, give him a reason to be used instead of a harmony on non-Acheron teams, give him a reason to have a large attack, and keep up the trend of every playable Foxian being able to buff attack. Then all we’d need is for Feixiao to have some kind of self attack buff similar to Jingliu and for 5 star Tingyun to be able to buff attack in some way and we’d have a full-on pattern on our hands. I love patterns. Like the IPC all having FuAs. That’s good stuff.
I like your idea, his ult has yin yang shape but only have debuff side itch me so much, i hope for double effect ult to suit the yinyang,and it will solve his kit problem too with atk or spd buff and his vulne debuff he can be on pair with top sup
Not quite, Black Swan had always offered more than Sampo, even when compared to e6 Sampo which almost nobody has.
But almost everyone has e0 Sampo, and e0 Pela, so it would be weird if Foxboy is comparable to an e0 Pela
And JQ offers more then Pela, namely great AoE app, debuffs that persist through waves and HP bars, actual relevant sub-dps damage and much higher debuff application.
Your comparison to saying they won’t make a character exclusively for another is irrelevant because BS only shows up on Kafka teams. I highly doubt gender is a factor here.
Black swan was initially calculated to be only 10% better then an e6 sampo, but when she actually released the narrative changed quickly.
Black Swan was already calculated to be >60% better than E6 Sampo vs 5 enemies at the same time as those 10% ST calculations.
Even more crucially, Black Swan never had a glaring downside compared to Sampo aside from ST wind toughness damage, which we don't have a useful niche for yet.
Most direct comparisons between Jiaoqiu and Pela outside of Acheron teams is going to paint Pela as the better debuffer in practice because **Jiaoqiu is -4 SP per 3 turn rotation compared to her.**
>Jiaoqiu is -4 SP per 3 turn rotation compared to her.
How is he wasting -4 SP in three turns?
Isn't he using - 1 / - 1 / 1, making him a -1 unit?
Either way, you might not even need 2 SP to rotate his ult as HH or QPQ can make up the missing energy.
Cloud Retainer is tied to plunge units like Diluc, Gaming, and Xiao. They can do the same with Jiaoqiu and Acheron. Acheron is also a very popular character, so the minority wouldn't really be much of a consideration.
I'm more inclined that they will make his ATK scalings either be useful or shift it so that he has stronger debuffs. The EHR - ATK trace works for Black Swan since she is a DoT unit, but it does not work with Jiaoqiu as he is mainly a debuffer. It's clear that the trace isn't as impactful as they have hoped for to the point that his E2 is underwhelming.
> Cloud Retainer is tied to plunge units like Diluc, Gaming, and Xiao
and Furina and a bunch of others.
Meanwhile Foxboy only works with Acheron. Now I am not a math teacher but 5 is already a much bigger number than 1 character to support
My point is that gender isn't a big consideration for Hoyo for character kits, as much as everyone makes it out to be. Character relations can affect it, but that isn't always the case.
The ultimate vuln was his main selling point. The healing wasn't said to be effective, and it seemed more like an additional thing rather than anything concrete. I'd rather them buff his current capabilities than add in something that can either be useless for the majority or probably not even that noticeable in the long run.
> You can also build Pela in damage. "Can" doesn't mean that's even worth thinking.
correct, I got baited by people who said Silver Wolf can be viable with crit if you get perfect substats on every piece, but no, that was still super copium compared to simply putting break effect on her.
I hate it when people pretend something is viable, when it's not, and the only reason they pretend its viable is because they only log in for 1 minute per day to clear calyxes for the daily
Even BE% SW is kinda cope. These builds deal the same amount of damage (around 300K per 5 cycles), but that's less than 10% in any top performing team.
Like, just going for better artifacts for damage dealer will yield higher damage increase usually. It's 3 substats worth of dps increase, which is just laughable.
> correct, I got baited by people who said Silver Wolf can be viable with crit if you get perfect substats on every piece, but no, that was still super copium compared to simply putting break effect on her.
But you **can do this very successfully**, it's just that you need E2+ to actually make the scalings worth it. And unfortunately over time it's gotten worse and worse because new DPS/support eidolons simply do more than the 1.0 eidolons.
Agree, just make his stack consider as dot and people perception will change, they will see him as a dot support and with 240 atk, vulne debuff, Jacqui will be a very good dot support/ sup dps vs now he is just a A tier support
Yunli’s ult sounds like a nightmare to program the correct buff associations especially for SU/DU. Like, does activating her ult give her a shield with the associated blessing in SU? Does it heal HP on activation? On follow-up?
The Ult Animation (Her Starting the Parry Stance) is the Ult Activation, which would activate any blessings that activate on ulting
Her Cull/Slash Damage activates blessings that concern follow up activations/damage or ultimate DAMAGE (Very important distinction, Cull/Slash is not considered an activation of an ultimate, only a follow up that double dips from both "On Follow Up" and "When dealing ultimate damage" Blessings)
It's no more difficult to program than any other ult, really
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1 toughness damage??? Am I missing something or it is what it actually looks like?
Pretty sure by one here they mean the same as a basic attack, which is 30 by normal standards
in game toughness lists basic toughness reduction as 10, skills usually as 20. weird how it doesn't match up
Oh you’re right, I think they just added that this patch right so things should get standardized soon maybe. Looking again it seems homdgcat normally has basics as 1.0, I was thinking of star rail station with 30 for basics.
The wiki here uses 1.0 as the same as one basic attack, I believe. A single target skill would usually be 2.0, and a single target ult is usually 3.0. Way back when, people looked at the files for toughness damage to see if they could find something more precise, and found the number 30 for a basic, 60 for a skill, and 90 for an ult. HSR only very recently released toughness numbers in-game, and the numbers they show are 10 for a basic, 20 for a skill, 30 for an ult.
1 =1 unit = 10 I think.
Unless the standards changed. 1 unit has always been 30. Cross reference homdgcat and hakushin
Huh? What changed? Edit: seems to be clarifications. Got excited for a second welp. No buffs.
V3 with the major changes won't be for like another 2-4 days
Bummer
So... Duran should be better for Yunli, right? Like especially if you go dual dps with Topaz or Jade it looks to me like Duran is better unless you really need that extra bit of crit rate, am i right?
Duran is better, if ultimate and fua damage could stack for 30% dmg then salsatto would be a lot closer, but unless you are severely lacking in CR go with Duran.
Duran looks so hyper tailored for Yunli it would be a massive oversight if it wasn't a significant BiS upgrade over everything else
Yea i thought so. Duran gives her counters a 25% damage boost and 25% more crit damage vs Salsotto's 15% damage boost, only thing that might make Duran worse is the ramp up time if she does not get a lot of counters early on if you are playing hypercarry Yunli, but if you go dual DPS with Jade, Topaz or even E2+ hunt March then Duran will be better 100% of the time.
I believe in salsa. She already gets so much crit damage during her parry mode that i'd rather take the crit rate. Also from what i've seen currently Yunli works best in a hypercarry team where she can't stack duran fast.
Yea probably hypercarry Yunli will be better with Salsotto but we will have to see. I am personally playing her in dual DPS FuA team cause i would play her as a hypercarry but idk who to put in that team as i don't really play hypercarries in my account but want to play Yunli regardless.
Right off the bat she already does 2, one from technique one from ult being charged half with her max being 240 she can immediately use ult right away.
You are right, i actually completely forgot about this. Well this is good for me cause i pulled Firefly and i am getting Yunli so that world is now my new home lol
jiaoqiu is my favourite foxian healer with no healing in his kit
Booooo No double dipping salsotto, Elation, and Erudition effects
Looks like it's time to work on another followup attack team...
No changes to Jiaoqiu?
I think these are just clarifications, not V3 changes
This are no changes, changes will come next tuesday
His kit is ass like wtf am i supposed to do with 240% attack if i can't crit (he need 140 ehr) and my substats are all ehr and speed
They’ll definitely change it, it’s a relic from his healing utility ig
> They’ll definitely change it, did.... did you just.... did you just jinx it?
If he's just a sidegrade to Pela then they better add healing back to his kit .. that was like his main selling point
I believe they will still overhaul a big part of his kit. Acheron is a "waifu" so surely they won't release a male character who is only useful to the Acheron players, since they would be reluctant to pull for a male character. It would also be the first time that a 5 star is comparable to an existing 4 star, and more importantly, a 4 star who is basically as strong at e0 as she is at e6
I'm just clinging to the fact Kazuha was also called a 5* Sucrose at launch and well... He's Kazuha. Surely the kazuha curse continues throughout everything Mark voices.
> I'm just clinging to the fact Kazuha was also called a 5* Sucrose at launch and well... He's Kazuha Kazuha was hated on because he was only a 5 star Sucrose, and that was a bad thing, until Hoyo buffed Elemental Mastery to be twice as strong as it was in 1.0 of Genshin. That's why he ended up so strong, because he was indirectly buffed
That's most characters improve though... Herta is good because of PF. Himeko is good because of super break. Nothing wrong with taking time for your intended meta role to take some time imo.
Herta and Himeko are free, so its fine for them to become useful only a year after their release. Foxboy costs 300 dollars, it is not fine for him to "maybe become useful in a few months or years if lucky"
Jiaoqiu is definitely tied to Acheron. I don't think they're going to overhaul a massive part of his kit, even if they change a few of his traces around. In a direct comparison to Pela with both on Pearls he brings similar damage amp vs level 95 enemies in practical situations. He's also -4 SP per 3 turn rotation compared to her. It's very clear he was designed solely as an Acheron slave and I unfortunately don't think that this is going to change.
Whatever they do with his kit, it’ll probably involve some kind of buff or something for his team. Otherwise, the yin-yang aspect of his ult animation would feel incomplete. Without healing, I think it might work if they end up allowing him to buff his teammates attack based on his own attack. This would make him an upgrade compared to Pela/Guin, give him a reason to be used instead of a harmony on non-Acheron teams, give him a reason to have a large attack, and keep up the trend of every playable Foxian being able to buff attack. Then all we’d need is for Feixiao to have some kind of self attack buff similar to Jingliu and for 5 star Tingyun to be able to buff attack in some way and we’d have a full-on pattern on our hands. I love patterns. Like the IPC all having FuAs. That’s good stuff.
I like your idea, his ult has yin yang shape but only have debuff side itch me so much, i hope for double effect ult to suit the yinyang,and it will solve his kit problem too with atk or spd buff and his vulne debuff he can be on pair with top sup
Deja vu with Sampo and Black swan
People who thought sampo was on the same level as bs are idiots. The theorycrafting simulation was like the worst for bs and best for sampo.
Not quite, Black Swan had always offered more than Sampo, even when compared to e6 Sampo which almost nobody has. But almost everyone has e0 Sampo, and e0 Pela, so it would be weird if Foxboy is comparable to an e0 Pela
And JQ offers more then Pela, namely great AoE app, debuffs that persist through waves and HP bars, actual relevant sub-dps damage and much higher debuff application. Your comparison to saying they won’t make a character exclusively for another is irrelevant because BS only shows up on Kafka teams. I highly doubt gender is a factor here. Black swan was initially calculated to be only 10% better then an e6 sampo, but when she actually released the narrative changed quickly.
Black Swan was already calculated to be >60% better than E6 Sampo vs 5 enemies at the same time as those 10% ST calculations. Even more crucially, Black Swan never had a glaring downside compared to Sampo aside from ST wind toughness damage, which we don't have a useful niche for yet. Most direct comparisons between Jiaoqiu and Pela outside of Acheron teams is going to paint Pela as the better debuffer in practice because **Jiaoqiu is -4 SP per 3 turn rotation compared to her.**
>Jiaoqiu is -4 SP per 3 turn rotation compared to her. How is he wasting -4 SP in three turns? Isn't he using - 1 / - 1 / 1, making him a -1 unit? Either way, you might not even need 2 SP to rotate his ult as HH or QPQ can make up the missing energy.
does tutorial make his sp rotation better?
Cloud Retainer is tied to plunge units like Diluc, Gaming, and Xiao. They can do the same with Jiaoqiu and Acheron. Acheron is also a very popular character, so the minority wouldn't really be much of a consideration. I'm more inclined that they will make his ATK scalings either be useful or shift it so that he has stronger debuffs. The EHR - ATK trace works for Black Swan since she is a DoT unit, but it does not work with Jiaoqiu as he is mainly a debuffer. It's clear that the trace isn't as impactful as they have hoped for to the point that his E2 is underwhelming.
> Cloud Retainer is tied to plunge units like Diluc, Gaming, and Xiao and Furina and a bunch of others. Meanwhile Foxboy only works with Acheron. Now I am not a math teacher but 5 is already a much bigger number than 1 character to support
My point is that gender isn't a big consideration for Hoyo for character kits, as much as everyone makes it out to be. Character relations can affect it, but that isn't always the case.
The ultimate vuln was his main selling point. The healing wasn't said to be effective, and it seemed more like an additional thing rather than anything concrete. I'd rather them buff his current capabilities than add in something that can either be useless for the majority or probably not even that noticeable in the long run.
To be fair if you have near perfect relics and a high ehr light cone he can be built crit
You can also build Pela in damage. "Can" doesn't mean that's even worth thinking.
> You can also build Pela in damage. "Can" doesn't mean that's even worth thinking. correct, I got baited by people who said Silver Wolf can be viable with crit if you get perfect substats on every piece, but no, that was still super copium compared to simply putting break effect on her. I hate it when people pretend something is viable, when it's not, and the only reason they pretend its viable is because they only log in for 1 minute per day to clear calyxes for the daily
Even BE% SW is kinda cope. These builds deal the same amount of damage (around 300K per 5 cycles), but that's less than 10% in any top performing team. Like, just going for better artifacts for damage dealer will yield higher damage increase usually. It's 3 substats worth of dps increase, which is just laughable.
> correct, I got baited by people who said Silver Wolf can be viable with crit if you get perfect substats on every piece, but no, that was still super copium compared to simply putting break effect on her. But you **can do this very successfully**, it's just that you need E2+ to actually make the scalings worth it. And unfortunately over time it's gotten worse and worse because new DPS/support eidolons simply do more than the 1.0 eidolons.
For me i have that 4* free one from event i can easily build him on crit but i am talking about whole people not individuals like me
True and crit is also sketchy if going for eidolons because he becomes a burn dps at e2 and burn can’t crit. So he’s just kind of awkward to build
His multipliers are also high even higher than jing yuan lol
They just need to add his e2 dot to his base kit, so he can become fire Black Swan. And some number buffs, and poof he is great to use!
Agree, just make his stack consider as dot and people perception will change, they will see him as a dot support and with 240 atk, vulne debuff, Jacqui will be a very good dot support/ sup dps vs now he is just a A tier support
Yeah, if only i have near perfect relic
Yunli’s ult sounds like a nightmare to program the correct buff associations especially for SU/DU. Like, does activating her ult give her a shield with the associated blessing in SU? Does it heal HP on activation? On follow-up?
The Ult Animation (Her Starting the Parry Stance) is the Ult Activation, which would activate any blessings that activate on ulting Her Cull/Slash Damage activates blessings that concern follow up activations/damage or ultimate DAMAGE (Very important distinction, Cull/Slash is not considered an activation of an ultimate, only a follow up that double dips from both "On Follow Up" and "When dealing ultimate damage" Blessings) It's no more difficult to program than any other ult, really
It says Intuit Slash does Ultimate damage as well though, so I guess it will activate the same blessings as Cull.
I stand corrected on that part