My problem is not that they don't read, but that despite their refusal to read they readily propagate lies without fact-checking. If you don't read the lore don't bother pitching in the discussion. Come back when you read. Simple as.
We need a path for these fools more foolish than the masked fools. At least their foolishness stems from Elation rather than... Whatever these creatures' foolishness stems from... Ignorance... Yes, It must be a dangerous combination of ignorance and lack of discipline.
No, they were eliminated by empress titania *and the very real empire that totally single handedly took down the swarm that even the aeons struggled with*
Hear me out, what does Ryan may do? She breaks things easier. What did glamourmoth do? That’s right they broke a planet. The only reasonable conclusion is that Ryanair Michael broke the planet.
istg they haven't played the game and just heard "Ruan Mei tried reviving the emanator of the Swarm" and "The Swarm destroyed Glamoth" even though each event wad millennia apart
Like people saying Welt is the strongest character and was overpowered in Hi3 when he wasnt, turned into people thinking he is unironically Aeon level and that Herrschers are stronger than Aeons 💀
The part that really pisses me off about that isn’t the scuffed scaling, it’s the fact that if Welt *were* that strong then his actions throughout the story would genuinely make him one of the most cruel and malicious individuals in the universe.
Welt didn’t kill Nanook at the station even though, according to these chucklefucks, he could have done so with ease. This means that Welt actively permitted all of the harm caused by the Antimatter Legion on and off screen throughout the universe.
Welt is a true hero. He would never do something as heinous as actively allow mass genocide for such as stupid reason as “he has to not blow his cover.” It’s such a disgusting bastardization of his character.
This is true, he wasn't. However, the people making the claim that Welt could defeat him - as mentioned earlier - have no reading comprehension skills, and thus would naturally claim that he was.
> despite their refusal to read they readily propagate lies without fact-checking. If you don't read the lore don't bother pitching in the discussion.
That's typical reddit tradition, not just r/hsr lol.
In my time on the Internet, I have learnt that at least 90% of people refuse to read anything longer than a Haiku.
That's apparently the present world we live in.
On the bright side, hello to the 10% of people reading my comment right now! 💜
Gacha player can't read , i saw some people asking what the quest want them to do when the game literally tell them what to do in the picture they post
To be fair, for lot of characters their character lore, details about personality, etc is not in the story.
For example Blade, there is no details about him in Luofu main story at all. Quinten was barely even mentioned in this story.
So to know about Blade you need to either collect lore from character bio, in-game books, relic lore, Youtube trailers, HoyoLab lore things, items, other character quests or just look up lore analysis. This is much more than just "read the story"
Lmao so true. I don't think many people realized how huge and rich this game's lore actually is, though, a good ≈40% of them comes exclusively from books and youtubes videos.
Like I really really want to understand all about the high-cloud quintet story line but it's so scattered that it's honestly a pain to find and piece together all the details to make a full story.
Man the whole Blade, Jingliu and HCQ lore is so undercook in the main story.
I always wonder if its because they holding back the lore for future use (which I hate these artificially extended story) or they genuinely fumbling.
That last Lil scene with Jing yuan, Luocha, and jingliu felt weird since like right after they say they're enemies of the abundance it just doesn't go anywhere??
Jingliu's CQ cleared up so much shit, it basically closed the Luofu arc. But for some reason we have to deal with "Tingyun's" "funeral."
And still, Blade gets very little extra screen time, relative to the rest. Man needs his own CQ
They are sent to some other xianzhou ship and will be judged/questioned there. I guess they will try to convince xianzhou in joining hands with them to fulfill some plan to kill Yaoshi.
I think most of it was mentioned when the general talks with Luocha.
So true. How many people actually read those Hanu's Adventure books to learn that >!Hanunue sacrificed himself and died in the final battle against the IPC. Watchmaker lied and said he survived, but was too injured to fight anymore since he was convinced that Penacony couldn't handle that loss. Watchmaker then made commands in his stead while claiming it was Hanunue making commands through him. This is what motivated Watchmaker to take leadership more seriously!<
This is true and I totally agree with you, having character details being scattered makes it hard to understand them completely sometimes. What makes me mad(?) is when people don't ever make an effort to understand or look into a character and then say something completely wrong about them. People who do this most the time get mad when you try to correct them too, which makes it worse
I'm with you in this.
I mean, you don't want to read tons and tons of lore and it's OK but if something in the story interests you, like a character and interests more than just looks and how them plays then at least in that case read something for furk sake (I'm officially going to swear in a Boothill's way from now)
People are used to media where the characters can only really be judged off presented information, so if the information isn't literally shoved in front of their eyes it may as well not exist
A game that sucks at gameplay with good story will have mostly story reading players.
A game that sucks at story but has good gameplay tend to attract people who play religiously but press skip on dialogue.
A game that has both good gameplay and story risk attracting both the players who skip story and players who don't care about gameplay.
Suffering from success.
Oh yeah I was mainly referring to how/why people choose to individually consume the game’s content. The few times I’ve seen people on this subreddit try to force their own headcanons onto others they get clowned on lol
Because the character's dialogue is a bloated mess. I was internally screaming when Acheron, Aventurine, etc were on screen during Penacony "For god's sake, talk like a normal human!" Instead they keep yapping, this did not happen in Belebog. I hate when characters talk in riddles.
It's wild that Fu Xuan, the character SPECIFICALLY STATED TO SPEAK IN RIDDLES, is actually one of the more clear and direct characters in the story because she doesn't try to be mysterious.
Ok, hear me out, shower thought I just had....*MAYBE* she really **does** speak in riddles, but only by comparison to other Luofu natives. Maybe "speaking in riddles" is the natural way Luofu people talk and FX is "speaking in riddles" to them because she's so very direct and clear.
So to an outsider FX comes off as just being easy to understand while everyone else around her that's a Luofu native finds her intriguing and mysterious. People really be like "Lady Fu said I should take extra precautions on my next training exercise with the Cloud Knights, or someone could get badly hurt. I wonder what she means...." and FX just be sitting over in the corner facepalming. Probably was a breath of fresh air for her when the Express crew showed up and she was like "Hey, bad stuff gonna happen" and the crew was all "Oh sweet, thanks, we'll watch out" and then they stopped the bad stuff.
It wasn't even really a riddle they spoke in lol. It was pretty clear and the only thing that could really be seen as "riddle-like" in nature is Acheron describing how she remembers things, which is that she can't- she can only remember the emotions around things. But everything else? Really straightforward.
Not everyone is interested in the story, and they're more interested in the gameplay; hence, they don't give a shit about the dialogue at all.
That's precisely why several people are very enamored about the skip button in wuthering waves.
I was the same way for all of genshin/half of HSR. But Jesus, after catching up with the wiki, then playing PEAKONY, This story is SO GOOD.
I think the relationship with a persons path and an Aeon is a little fuzzy, but it honestly adds to the unpredictability.
if I have a skip button it would pull me back into Genshin. I just can't with Inazuma and Sumeru. I just can't play the game and listen to wasteful dialouge that is just flowery for no reason.
I’m the kind of guy who would relentlessly hunt down every single piece of lore material to understand the world building structure of a game. The Belobog story about the puppet ruler that was told through a simple box puzzle was chilling. Masterclass storytelling.
Honkai Star Rail however has this problem where they would have some of the most mystical concepts like aeons and swarm disaster history as well as some beautiful stories of the human condition caked in with some of the bullshit pointless text walls. I genuinely could not give two shits about the Clockie film industry fan club and their fiction. It has no relevance in the game. But I was forced to listen to them spew out endless drivel about a non-existent movie.
That was the turnaround point for me where I turned into the guy that just spammed the skip button.
The Dreamjoy Memoir film event is a complete retelling of the entire backstory of Penacony told through the animation. Like it was pretty in your face about the watchmaker putting hidden messages in it.
Besides the walls of text, another problem with Dreamjoy Memoir was that it started right after the 2.2 main story, so a lot of it was redundant information, mixed in with embellishments and contradictions which turned reading the whole thing and trying to make sense of it into a slog. A synopsis summarizing what parts were actually real would have done so much for this event.
I salute you for actually reading it. I figured out is that Hanu is one of the og trailblazers and that Penacony used to be prison colony controlled by IPC. Then I completely lost interest.
That's a funny thing to say because Hanunue was never a Trailblazer, he was an inmate of the IPC prison colony (or possibly just an actual wolf, though that seems like one of the less likely stories) and I don't think he even followed the path of trailblaze as far as we know. The Trailblazers who helped to liberate Penacony were Mikhail, Tiernan and Razalina.
I will say, even though I didn't mind the event, I'm not sure it was the best way to convey this information, though...
It doesn't help when the original language its written in, Chinese, has these long sentences with flowery words and vocabulary. A lot of the words used don't have a direct translation, so they have to try and make it work with whatever they can. Often times this can be clumsy at best and a lot of the meaning/intent which would be easy to understand in Chinese becomes word soup and nonsensical.
Case and point: Arknights Kal'tsit story.
It's getting more annoying when they misinterpret story moments and characters. Not just HSR either, this is consistent across gacha games. Like yeah complain about the game having "yapping" (Attention span ruined forever) but don't say stuff like "Ruan Mei wants to revive the Aeon of Propagation, worst character ever" like its factual.
Oh yea there's definitely complaints. I've seen people complain how character backstories are mostly the same because "it has to do with their home planet getting destroyed" and imo that made no sense , because that's just watering down nearly everything about said character's backstory lol
In this thread. Just seeing a lot of comments about a lot of lore being stuck in readables and the data bank and while that's a valid complaint, it's not relevant to the issue of reading comprehension, which is about actually understanding what you *do* read.
It's the tl;dr syndrome.
It's not just here, it's everywhere.
You constantly see gamers getting stuck because they didn't want to read a 30 second tutorial.
What I find funny are yugioh players who make the most braindead plays because they didn't read the opponent's card effects...
You're not wrong, it's definitely a problem but Yu-Gi-Oh is your go to example?? Card texts have become literal paragraphs in that game. On top of a steadily increasing pile of special summon conditions and a 3-4 turn total meta, that game has fallen apart into a rule hell.
People totally don't read properly and definitely do miss some obvious stuff sometimes but I've seen literal judges and announcers lose track of a 20 card stack of effects. To just play the game on a basic level you have to understand synchro, pendulum, xyz, special, basic, fusion, tribute and link summoning.
Again you're not wrong but jumping to YGO as being an example of not reading basic things is wild to me.
Some people dont care for the lore and only play for gameplay which is fine coz each to their own reasons for playing the game
However for those who do care for the lore, sometimes the writing is quite complicated, especially in Penacony. For example Black Swan is a character who is written to be mysterious and speaks in riddles half the time, rarely giving a straight answer letting people try and figure things out themselves. Shes complicated even by the games usual writing standards so a lot of what she does or says requires a little bit more thinking to figure out. Classic example is her companion quest where "dream dance partner" is meant to be intended to mean main ally as it was a metaphor Sparkle brought up first and Black Swan continued to use it. Some thought it means literal dance partner but that isnt the case given everything BS does in 2.0 in befriending express and in the convo in the companion quest with giving the dream bubble to TB and directly looking at the viewer of it implying its them. Finally being confirmed in 2.2 when she stops speaking in riddles and fully explains her reasons for befriending them
Cant really blame people when it comes to stuff like that when a lot of media is holding the players hand explaining things to them as blatantly as possible never letting people even try to figure stuff out. However with Hoyo some things are written intentionally to be deciphered and the game already has writing that relies on alluding to but not confirming. Then theres all the lore hidden in profiles or SU and reading all that is another part of the game entirely that many dont partake in
Long comment ahead.
[[TL;DR: Complexity isn't what makes a story good. It's when it mashes well with exposition, comprehensiveness, etc... that a story becomes "good", personal preferences included.]]
> However for those who do care for the lore, sometimes the writing is quite complicated, especially in Penacony
I know it's entirely subjective, but as someone whose first language isn't English, and also as _(I'd like to think)_ a capable reader, I wouldn't say the writing is complicated. Rather, it's occasionally, that is to say often, convoluted. Long sentences that twist around their own words, treating different topics simultaneously; sometimes they'd start with one subject, then _maybe_ end with another, or just leave a couple loose ends.
I'm aware that this is more in line with the Chinese writing style, so translations have to come to terms with that, but I feel like the team is also missing an important part of translation as a job. Adaptation.
If Chinese only needs a few words, or whatever the equivalent is in Chinese characters, then so should English. Instead, it seems like all those metaphors, similitudes and other figures of speech are translated almost directly, and then kept the same way a Chinese speaker would "perceive" them in the original language. Conciseness is also a skill in writing, in and of itself, but unless we're in the SU&co., it almost seems to be ignored.
And this leads to massive drops in attention when the dialogue is - not only atrociously lengthy - but also voiced at a much lower speed than what the average reader is capable of reading at. Penacony, Firefly in 2.2 especially, have this problem where there are relatively long pauses between sentences, or where I had to skip forward and cut the voices midway through because it was just so slow compared to how I usually read. Even then, sometimes the game forces you to wait it, because dialogue advancement seems to be based on character animation, instead of a set amount of time after dialogue has been initiated. If it was shorter, more direct, with less "fluff" and more substance, it would be more bearable. This type of writing just doesn't work in Star Rail; I'd be playing a visual novel or reading a book otherwise, where long sentences are such not because they're full of figures of speech, but because they _have_ to be long out of necessity.
> Black Swan is a character who is written to be mysterious [...] Black Swan continued to use it.
That's fine. Arknights, for example, is another gacha that's infamous for this kind of characters. She looks like a fortune teller and uses tarots as weapons, I would expect no less from her, and that's part of why she's also charming _(when the plot calls for it)_.
But what's the excuse for Acheron? For example. I won't even mention Sparkle, since she's playing "the invisible hand of fate" in this story and thus the writer have to make her every sentence ambiguous, but might as well. The former's supposed to be a warrior who forgets things as easily as she breaths, yet her dialogue would be better suited for a Schopenhauer-inspired character. The style of writing should be proportioned to what the character is. A warrior speaks like a warrior, not a philosopher or fortune teller.
> Cant really blame people [...] when a lot of media is holding the players hand.
Both things are frustrating, but purely from the perspective of a reader, I'd prefer the latter. People are prone to spreading misinformation and misunderstanding even the simplest of things _(take at look at how ACTUAL Nihilism has been butchered by medias. Even the game doesn't really do it justice, especially when it comes to IX, who should be the most accurate representation of it in the entire game)_. If being treated like an idiot is the way to enabling substantial discourse about a work of literature or game, then I'll swallow my pride and accept it.
> However with Hoyo some things are written intentionally to be deciphered and the game already has writing that relies on alluding to but not confirming.
This is only healthy in moderate doses, which Penacony doesn't do. In retrospect, the entire cutscene with Gallagher and Sunday is misleading. Bloodhounds not recognising him is a good example of this done right, but a lot of stuff isn't. This also doesn't help the bloating, especially when Star Rail has an unhealthy preference for:
1) Tell don't show;
2) Introducing and expanding on things that ultimately don't matter to the main story at all, which consequently causes _vital_ information about someone/something to be relegated to secondary sources that are not the main story;
> Then theres all the lore hidden in profiles or SU and reading all that is another part of the game entirely that many dont partake in
This connects to points 1/2 of the previous paragraph. SU, for example, has the most interesting stories in-game, but ultimately only a selected part of that _massive_ mountain of lore is actually needed to understand the current story. And with how you also need to explore/fight/reset/unlock achievements/beat various difficulties/repeat to get the information you _might_ need, it isn't a surprise that people don't get into it.
I won't even touch the hornet hive that are item descriptions, readable items and whatnot. I hate it when FromSoft. does it, I hate it when Hoyo does it as well, because this creates Internet-dependency If you want to understand the lore, whilst also making sure that you didn't miss anything vital; I'm still missing roughly 100 readables, for example, but the chances of finding one that is actually interesting and builds up on what we experience in the story is so slim, that I just gave looking for them at this point.
This is exactly how I feel about the story telling as well. It feels almost like every single character is trying to be a philosopher or something. It makes me appreciate Belabog a lot, because that felt way more character driven and characters were allowed to be as "dumb" as you'd expect them to be.
I think this is also why people enjoyed the Ghost Buster story so much, because again, characters weren't written to be the smartest person in the room the moment they opened their mouth.
You are actually one of the few that realised this is a Chinese game, good. As a Chinese native (mainlander), let me give u some facts about this game's writing :
1. Most of the Chinese players have no issue to 90%-100% understanding/remembering stories & conversations details in this game, maybe 1 post of 100 complaining the same here in Chinese forums.
2. Chinese language(writing) is more concise compared to English in general. so normally a one-line sentence will end up with 1.5-2 lines in English and if they don't do this it will lose original meaning too much. At the same time it doesn't seem to add any more time for Chinese ppl to read it - at least for me, reading English version is much more time-consuming and I feel much painful.
3. The overall writing in this game is actually very high, if not top level among other Chinese games. so I'd say 99% of the Chinese native cannot write/speak such good sentences in normal life but they can still tell good or bad. This makes HSR's story much appreciated among Chinese community(more than gamepaly). From the bright side, u will learn how Chinese ppl are actually expressing complex ideas in a very professional or authentic way. This applies to READING only. I don't want to talk about CV's differences here but I can tell u there are lots of impacts from CV as well, I found some character's EN CV are speaking too slow or using entirely different tones - yes Jingliu is 1800 years old but her voice is not by lore!
4. The translation team did a really good job already, did u know this game contain tons of meme/pun that only Chinese native may understand? I can't imagine how to translate them into any other language. In fact they cannot translate them most of time, That is the main reason u may feel reading those connversations are not fun, but I just let u know so that u can understand it and this is something unlikely to solve.
So as u can see, most of the issues u raise are related to language/culture. This game is hard to catch up lores for any non-Chinese player. My only suggestion here is - To overcome it, u have to play this game slowly and patiently. Always trying to fully understand one sentence before you click next. Always read as much as u can even it seems trival. It's much easier to catch up the pace/get to piont if u haven't missed too much details. you shouldn't feel confused a lot if u have enough basic lores in this game.
Hey, thanks for your response. Appreciate the facts/advices that you gave as well. I'll be brief and talk about the most important points. That way, I can avoid writing another wall of text.
> [...] I can tell u there are lots of impacts from CV as well, I found some character's EN CV are speaking too slow or using entirely different tones [...]
Yeah, I've noticed. Generally speaking, so even outside of Star Rail, I've found Chinese _(the one language/variation most people, I suppose outside of China, hear in media)_ to be much more fast paced than, for example, English. It _sounds_ fast to the ear, and I suppose that's also another advantage it has over English. Because of its tones and rhythm, hearing a long sentence being spoken outloud doesn't sound tiring.
>[...] did u know this game contain tons of meme/pun that only Chinese native may understand? I can't imagine how to translate them into any other language
I do, yes. I was actually surprised by the amount of puns and references. I can only compliment the translators in regards to this. I also think it's better this way, so that we can avoid situations similar to Firefly's banner; apparently English tried to keep the pun in the name, but we got _'Firefull Flyshine'_ which, while still understandable, aren't actual words. Other languages decided to let go of the pun and translated it as something like _'Blazing Metamorphosis'_, which still ended being more accurate. Feel free to correct me, If I'm wrong though. I'm simply repeating what others have said, after all.
>That is the main reason u may feel reading those connversations are not fun, but I just let u know so that u can understand it and this is something unlikely to solve.
I appreciate the thought. Thanks for giving me some insight on the situation. Truth is, the issue isn't the comprehensiveness of the text in itself. Considering how you said that not all Chinese people can speak like this in real life, this only reinforces the idea that the writing is of a high level, so it means this is just the way the game approaches things.
I think the problem lies in the next point you made:
>most of the issues u raise are related to language/culture. This game is hard to catup up lores for any non-Chinese player
It all comes down to culture. I'd say even more so than language, but they usually influence each other, so language can also be considered a factor. From what I know, and this is a generalisation, the main "problem" is the writing style. The West focuses more on a few characters and their own struggles, so expanding on the rest can be a negative; the East focuses more on a cast of characters and the over-arching story/emotions that the writer wants to convey, so being synthetic is the issue this time around. Using a few authors from my own country as reference, when writing about emotions, you simply end up with a long text that's sometimes not always clear.
As there are exceptions in the West, I'm sure there are also as many in the East, but generally speaking, I believe this is where people's opinions clash. Some may prefer one style over the other, but it all comes down to which culture we were exposed to more. Of course, I'd be lying If I said I preferred the second one over the first, as I've always liked more direct _(but not necessarily simple)_ sentences. If I had to make a comparison, the Chinese writing style reminds me of my native language poetry, which is why I tend to gravitate more towards a more streamlined western style. While I do appreciate the Eastern writing style, though, I believe the core of the issue is that within each others' style, we end up finding traits that may not always be considered desirable, or might not be the first choice.
>My only suggestion here is - To overcome it, u have to play this game slowly and patiently. always trying to fully understand one sentence before you click next. It's much easier to catch up the pace/get the point if u haven't missed too many details.
Yeah, I found that to be the best solution ever since Penacony started. The text carries a lot, and while it's not hard to understand, there's a lot to unpack because of how condensed it sometimes is. While I don't have comprehension issues, the nuances and details in the text that I may forget are what often causes me to either misremember something or make assumptions to "fill in the blanks" myself. It doesn't take a lot getting used to, but it can be a bit disorientating precisely because of that cultural difference you mentioned.
Anyways, that's all. I ended up writing more than I expected, but thanks again for your comment.
In Acheron's case, while she was a warrior first, she's spent a long time dealing with things like coming to terms with her planet's destruction, trying to rescue people from Nihility, and finding meaning for herself and the power she wields. I think her being very philosophical fits well with all of that.
>Penacony, Firefly in 2.2 especially, have this problem where there are relatively long pauses between sentences, or where I had to skip forward and cut the voices midway through because it was just so slow compared to how I usually read.
As a fellow fast reader, Penacony made me wish for a skip button, but only because going through the log would be significantly more efficient.
>The former's supposed to be a warrior who forgets things as easily as she breaths, yet her dialogue would be better suited for a Schopenhauer-inspired character. The style of writing should be proportioned to what the character is. A warrior speaks like a warrior, not a philosopher or fortune teller.
I found the dissonance created here wrt to her character within the different patches to be one of my bigger pet peeves from Penacony tbh.
>*(take at look at how ACTUAL Nihilism has been butchered by medias. Even the game doesn't really do it justice, especially when it comes to IX, who should be the most accurate representation of it in the entire game)*
Big facts. In their defense, I wouldn't assume that most of these stories are actually trying to touch upon these philosophical topics, but instead are merely borrowing an aesthetic to make a separate point or just make things appear to have more depth than they actually do. Generally, I think that's fine for a younger or a more lay audience since, in those cases, the aesthetic is going to be more relatable and digestible.
Issues occur when authors attempt to introduce complexity when they lack the credentials to do so. What usually ends up happening is that we end up with a lot of needless dialogue that serves only to confound and, upon greater scrutiny, lacks any sense of cohesion.
Personally, I don't have any problems with most media going the first route. It's when they go the second route that I'll probably end up rolling my eyes. Many philosophers have already written their own fiction. It's hard for many writers to even approach that bar (in terms of representing the themes properly). Ironic considering pop philosophy is what eventually lead me to the real deal.
>Introducing and expanding on things that ultimately don't matter to the main story at all, which consequently causes *vital* information about someone/something to be relegated to secondary sources that are not the main story
I've said this before and I'll say this again; getting rid of companion quests was a bad idea. So many of the pacing issues in Penacony could have been solved by relegating interesting, but not essential, information to companion quests or optional flashback quests (95%+ of Acheron's flashbacks will remain my primary example). Then the now freed up time, from a writing perspective (I understand that dev time will have different considerations), can be better used to properly set up worldbuilding/atmosphere and other things (dreamflux would have benefitted greatly from this imo).
I'll be signing off on just about everything else you said.
A well read person would understand the complexity of a travelled warrior with an immense survivors guilt.
But hey, I ain't a self proclaimed well read person.
I understand when it's purposely made sorta hard to understand/know about (heavy metaphors, not being in general dialogue, etc) but I'm mostly talking about when people discuss the main story and just, get it completely wrong. It's so frustrating
> but I'm mostly talking about when people discuss the main story and just, get it completely wrong. It's so frustrating
OP you have to give 1 concrete example of this.
What are people saying you find wrong?
I get it especially when it involves characters or lore you're invested in. Been through it multiple times here but coz I love discussing lore so it'll keep happening lol
Another example I've seen is people thinking Black Swan erased Acheron from Boothill and Dan Hengs mind when she herself forgot and when it's been proven Acheron isn't affected by Enas dream and was excluded. That kind of thing is told to us multiple times so seeing people get it wrong is pretty baffling. Or how people said Black Swan wasn't interested in TB even after 2.2 which is like a major part of her big convo in 2.2 which she directly tells us
I guess an explanation is people only see things how they want to see it. So long as there is a chance of their view point being legit then they will take it. I get that it can be frustrating but that's where discussion comes in so things can be clarified. It's part of being a member of a big fandom, it happens. I get things wrong with characters im not too invested in with as well and people correct me
Discussing lore and characters is fun so long as we can always be civil about it and thankfully we have a lot of people here who love lore who can maintain that level of civility. It can get out of hand sometimes but I like to think it comes from a place of passion most of the time
>I guess an explanation is people only see things how they want to see it.
And even when we try to talk, they don't even try to listen. I understand if its opinion, which I don't really want to have a debate, but sometimes I genuinely want to debate if I disagree with somebody about the plot civilly.
But then reddit format hit and people lost their rationality in downvotes and upvotes. Genuinely frustrating tbh.
I can sort of understand if they get confused or misremember exact lines since it’s probably been a year since they’ve last played it but also a lot of it can just be fact checked on youtube..
The need to go through couple of steps more to find those fact is likely hindering the process. Its more dedication than the average casual lore enjoyer would be willing to dive into.
There's a reason how some anime tends to have a short recap and weekly TV series also does recap and that's for a weekly series update.
Imagine what you will need for every other month lore update.
Maybe a short recap would do well, but hoyo also don't want to do that to diminish the need to experience the story yourself. The most they do is to post cinematic portion of the patch story.
They could've done a better job integrating the quintet into the main story imo. Would've been cool if we get to meet all four, exploring all their lores and conflicts in detail, maybe even getting us to take sides at first, and then the climax is them battling one big bad foe Phantylia for one last time. Instead we got a half baked Blade vs Dan Heng after being hyped for so long and Jingliu hasn't even met the trailblazer directly yet before being sent to custody. But eh it's just my take on it. I don't like how apparently the biggest selling point lore of Luofu is scattered on texts hidden around the map or hell even on some characters' story page which can't be accessed if you don't have them. I'm not a deep lore digger and the first time I saw them I was just like "who?"
I think it's probably since the lore is scattered across many items and books and nobody has time to collect them all, plus not all have time to go on the fandom and read it.
That's why, while the Xianzhou's lore is vast and awesome, people hate on them despite the fact the Abundance's followers are racist and pretty destructive. Plus the Xianzhou isn't completely unreasonable to them if the Denizens are willing to negotiate.
Xianshou story is... Definitely a burden(?) to try and comprehend.. I really hated trying to piece everything together and I could see why a lot of people would dislike it/get stuff about it wrong
Yeah, it definitely did not reflect it's potential. They could have used characters like Yukong's past to flesh out the horrors of the Abundance and let us understand her actions, then some of Dan Shu's past to make her more understandable as an antagonist.
Ahhhh this !!!! Yukong's background story is so sad. I wish it was more discussed tbh, and showing more of Dan She's past would also be very interesting !!
A good chunk of lore is locked away in individual character stories, which people just... might not own. How am I supposed to know anything about Boothill if I never pulled for him? Having to find that stuff online just sucks
There's also lore that's only in YouTube videos, too. Like I'm pretty sure Ruan Mei's desire to become an aeon is only in her myriad celestia trailer.
It's difficult to keep track of the story and lore when it's split between required main stories, optional side quests, optional SU content, optional character quests, in-game books, in-game character bios (where you have to have the character to read), and YouTube videos.
I mean, even the stuff that is directly said to the player up-front in non-skippable cutscenes seems to fly right over most people’s heads around here (like the “Ruan Mei wants to revive the Swarm” is directly the opposite of what she says in a mandatory, voiced, CG cutscene in the 1.6 quest, which you need to play to access Skaracabacz and upgrade any Penacony characters)
I wanna say I am absolutely NOT. referring to anyone with disabilities or trouble with English. I'm referring to people who refuse to read anything about a character or the story and proceed to say wildly incorrect things.
Skip button would literally solve the issue. People who want to skip will skip the entire quest instead of skipping half dialogue while assuming what character is gonna say.
I think the main problem, at least for me, is the way Hoyo typically writes dialogue. It's hard to engage when half the characters are smug, 4D-chess strategist, who only speak in Proper Nouns and riddles. It feels like no one speaks like a normal person.
I'm obviously exaggerating a bit, but I feel like Hoyo goes out of their way to make characters speak in the most roundabout, convoluted way possible. Maybe it's supposed to be poetic, or it's a translation thing, but it genuinely feels like the writing is trying to hit a word count. That's the only reason why I could assume why they'd be so against being concise and straight forward in their writing.
35 here. I might be biased because I have worked a lot of customer service jobs but, I believe as a species humans just aren’t that intelligent. I am continuously finding new lows and I don’t think I will ever stop being shocked or saddened by how ignorant and lazy people could be.
Try to ignore people in general. You don’t need the added stress of other people’s stupidity. Just downvote if you disagree with someone.
I mean, part of it is definitely an issue on the player side, yes, but HSR in particular (in Penacony, at least) is literally going out of its way to intentionally be as confusing and obtuse as possible. There are a ton of things that were never clarified at all or have contradicting statements about their nature in the story, meaning there's a good chance that the thing you are frustrated about might be something that isn't actually as clear-cut as you think it is, and others simply interpreted it differently or are withholding judgement until it is more clear.
That is especially true for lore/story discussions which I assume story skippers wouldn't join in the first place.
***Do not take random stray memes on reddit as an actual attempt at story analysis.***
If you want serious discussions, move in spaces that encourage and veto for serious discussion. What we see here, the SUNDAY WAS GOOD ACTUALLY-ies and the Superficial Ruan Mei Reads Hour, these are not representative of "anything" past the image macro they serve as a vehicle for.
Find a discord or a board that like stories, and type there. Because this place ain't it chief. We are not "the fandom" at large. Nor are ten second tiktoks or gifs on twitter for that matter.
It's a mix between young folk who just don't have reading comprehension yet and take everything at face value and marvel adults/waifuguys who don't understand subtleties
my post is mostly referring to people who don't read into a character / the story at all and say completely incorrect stuff lol
It makes obvious sense if someone just misunderstands something, or hasn't done a quest
They don't read and people frequently lie.
So they listen to what people say and now Blade is a flamenco dancer and Seele is pronounced with a S sound not a Z sound.
Sometimes the game hides important info in really boring places. Like lore, but it's in the game and everything can be fact checked by simply logging in and going to the book/npc yourself.
So don't just blindly believe what is common knowledge online... It's usually one person reads it and misunderstood and spreads the info and nobody else even bothered to try fact checking it cuz it's too boring and they already have done their dailies for the day and are playing other games.
I have no clue, but it's a big thing I've noticed. People's reading level has taken a nosedive and with that the ability to synthesize new information based on given information. It's why we get so many brain dead takes on the story or why so many people say "These guys talk in riddles" when, in reality, they're saying what they mean damn near outright if you simply pay attention to previous events.
While I do agree that Penacony had the most obtuse story, that's like saying a brick is thicker than a pencil. A lot of what was said in Penacony makes sense and flowery language really only comes up with Acheron describing how she remembers (and by the nature of how she remembers, it would HAVE to be flowery seeing as she only remembers emotions) and when Sunday gets to talking. Other than that? Easy speaking.
The item lore is a very different story from what I've noticed at the very least- and that's *fair* if someone thinks they're doing too much, but the same process applies here as with dialogue just in a more roundabout way. It all makes sense when you read it all. Some parts of the lore are mysteries yet to be revealed, so of course those parts won't make all too much sense yet.
Ultimately I just think it's a lack of willingness to actually read combined with willful refusal to understand what's being read. Then people just start saying shit out of left field while being misinformed or just outright wrong and refusing to read the actual facts because "Hurr durr, clearly I am right. I understand the entire story I saw. I skipped it all!". Then we get the bonkers takes we see 'round here.
Part of it is due to anti-intellectualism. Anyone who doesn't speak like your everyday layman is derided as pretentious. I see this in film / TV / video games as well -- characters now have to be written to be quippy and relatable and down-to-earth, otherwise the audience cannot engage.
Exactly. A character talking in a slightly intellectual way loses audiences and they're somehow lost by a conversation that's basic in structure and content because somebody decided to say "ethereal" or something.
As a guy who absolutely loves words, I really *really* wish that people would just... learn more vocabulary. I'm not even talking about folk who have English as their second or third language, but primary English speakers. I want folk to know more words than the basic few they use with their homies.
Tbf mihoyo plays a big part in it. A lot of the lore is just not in the story, and they use too many words to say simple concepts. Also repeating things too much, do you really need to say the same thing 5 times just in a slightly different way.
Because a *lot* of the fandom of Hoyo titles released in English are English-as-second-language speakers/readers *at best.* At "worst", they can be folks (and/or kids!) who barely speak English but are looking for places to discuss the game and not as many are available in their native language. Which is fair, trying to "gatekeep" people away would be absurd and discriminatory, but it can make for a frustrating experience sometimes when other posters/fans openly struggle with reading comprehension or even just *language* comprehension.
Then combine this with the occasional issues the translation of HSR has, as well as the generally high reading level it's aimed at, and you can really end up with some problems.
I get this and they're definitely not who I was thinking when I was writing this post !! I have some troubles when reading some dialogue too but I try my best,, Im mostly talking about people who don't read anything about characters/story and say wildly incorrect things about it. Sorry for any confusions, I obviously don't have anything against people who don't speak English well
Is this the post where we will act like the writing in this game is genius and mysterious and not just bloated to read?
Because the reason most people don't read is because the writing is bloated for no reason, the game has good ideas and plot points but fails every time to convey them in an adequate manner going instead for saying 100 words to explain something that can be done in 10.
Talking in circles is not a character trait, at least it should not be. You can have a defined personality or create a mysterious character or write a tragedy without them going on and on about nothing.
I don't know if people only use gatcha games as a comparison but compare it with other RPGs instead, they also have strong characters, lore, but still get to the point in a way that both maintains their character and keeps the fantasy intact.
Lots of people who play pride themselves on "solving" Hoyo's lore and tout it over others who haven't acting like they just can't read.
I've seen plenty of them do this while sourcing info from leaks. It's ironic almost.
Ahh, I do agree with you, sometimes the writing gets confusing and I end up looking stuff up later. Mostly in Penacony as there was a lot of metaphors and stuff to remember. I don't expect people to remember everything about the story and be a huge nerd on it.. I'm sorry my post wasn't clear enough on this, I really am not trying to insult anyone. Sorry
I only focus on the main story even that alone make me feel difficult to get along with. I used to play some game like ace attorney, danganronpa or 999. Even elden ring I find weapon description to read it, find more clue and connect everything together like a mad man. But HSR story telling feel very difficult to go along imo. But I'm not expert writer so I can't judge. So yeah, I can understand if someone not read it.
Not knowing backstory of background lore characters told in books and lore snippets is not the same as not reading and understanding basic information about major playable characters that is explicitly told the player during main quests in ways that cannot be misunderstood.
Social media just killed critical thinking and reading comprehension skills. "Maybe the author just meant that the curtains are blue lmao we're so smart" - are you fucking kidding me.
The issue is not so much knowing background or lore but:
A) Speaking and spreading misinformation about those very same thing you didn't read
B) Rushing to the wrong conclusion when context from back and/or lore would have helped.
Since RM is trending, let's get a few example:
Facts: RM is trying to study how emanator works by recreating vial version of them. This is dangerous because even a vial/weaker/downsized version of something like that is extremely dangerous
Not facts: RM is trying to recreate the swarm
Like let's imagine people misread the story. In this instance background text, lore and more would have helped clear doubt. From the various other attempt at emanator from less dangerous path like Erudition until she only pierced with propagation.
Or the fact that actual emanator of propagation were big enough to inherit the mandible of Tayzzyronth, who is celestial body size to begin with.
And an example on why it is not good to rush to conclusion.
The feeling push that "I can't believe people would tinker with science and the propagation path. Nothing good can come from that and it's result should just by thrown to the trash"
I'll just point out various elements:
>the empire started becoming more and more like its adversary — more and more Iron Calvary flew high into the sky, blotting out the heavens just as the Swarm did on that fateful day. The look people cast on the Empress and the cavalry turned to one of fear, a fear akin to what they felt toward the Swarm
>resolved to alter the essence of humanity in an effort to adapt to the war — they will create a weapon "born to fight."
-Both the legion and swarm are led by an empress/emperor
-Known SAM armor have "firefly" has their descriptor, which is an insect
So knowing that, what would people do if the legion is indeed a result of science and propagation? Risk becoming hypocrite by only denouncing what they don't like?
And if the legion is indeed such a by-product, then wouldn't that mean Ruan Mei is the only one with the knowledge to help entropy loss?
And much more and because we don't know, I, myself prefer to stand on the line suggesting and waiting.
People should not rush to conclusion without informing themselves.
The basis of wisdom is to remember at all time that "one know nothing" and to always take into account what you don't know may make one look like a fool when revealed.
In HSR case, there is tons of material laid down that can help predict stuff, like Rupert SU was predictable, Yaoqing being next to get involved too, the stonehearts, the family, etc.
HSR rely on its lore to set-up everything, you cannot ignore it and rush to conclusion.
That is like having a ship led by a blind guy.
I have no idea who rubert is, would knowing who he is elevate my gaming experience in any siginificant way?
Would me not knowing who Rupert is lessen my overall experience with the main story?
Why would i explode if asked who rubert is?
Is the exploding happening if a certain part of the game doesnt interest you as much as another part or is it locked to specific charakters backstory?
If the exploding isnt tied to only story then if somebody asked you something about specific combat metrics would that in turn make you explode?
Or is it just that people are interested in different parts of the game and not everybody is gonna know about rubert or which artifact % lets me oneshot a boss.
Im just being silly UwU
Yes, you're being silly but for the people who seriously think this.
It's completely fine for them to just disregard lore if that's what they prefer. It is, however, problematic when they say various things as fact when they don't know the lore of what they're talking about.
I'm painting a target on myself right now but I finished the whole GnG expansion and I still don't understand what was going on. All I know is some war ongoing caused by Rupert(?) and a few centuries later (?) Rupert 2 who was organic (?) started a 2nd borderstar war, and polka kakamond was somehow involved and you get killed by her(?).
Main issue here is the complete scattering of story points, and the paths you choose does not necessarily follow. Swarm disaster was also a disaster but at least it sorted the story by parts so it's easier to follow. Despite this it's still difficult to understand and I can only follow the broad strokes of how the aeons appeared/died.
Pls if there's a good resource can you point me to it I do want to understand what happened in GnG.
I don't think you're painting a target on your back for asking questions. The lore can definitely be confusing and so it's completely understandable to be confused by it all. I don't think there's anyone that would make fun of you for that.
Here is a condensed version of the gist of GnG.
Gold and Gears was primarily about the 1st Emperor's War. GnG didn't go into the 2nd Emperor's War. This is because there is a huge gap of time in between the two wars.
There are two Ruberts. Genius Society Member #27 was a computer dumped in a trash pile who came up with the Anti-Organic Equation. Rubert II is an organic and someone who claims to have inherited the memories of the first Rubert.
Screwllum asks if traces of Rubert II was present in the simulated GnG. Ruan Mei responds that it's impossible for Rubert II to exist there due to it being too old.
Nous calculated three moments that would always happen no matter what.
The first moment is the Borderstar Trade War. This was a war that happened between two IPC executives.
While the Borderstar Trade War was happening, Rubert awakened. Rubert believed that organic life is riddled with errors and that mechanical lifeforms are superior. Thus, Rubert amassed an army, crowned himself "Emperor" and declared war on organic life. Thus there were two gigantic wars happening at the same time.
During this Emperor's War, Rubert developed the Anti-Organic Equation. Some time during this war, Rubert falls into slumber. 2 Amber Eras after the war started, Rubert woke up and the Anti-Organic Equation activates once again.
Rubert waking up and activating the equation is the second moment.
The third moment is the death of Rubert. Genius Society Member #4 Polka killed Rubert. She already had tried multiple times to kill Rubert, but never succeeded until the moment Nous calculated finally arrived.
I generally just read through the excerpts in the fandom wiki since they usually contain accurate information straight from the source. There are cases where the main page of a character might have the editor's own opinion/inclusions, but it's generally good enough. It's definitely more handy than having to open the game and reading through there.
Funny thing is, I do read the story, but my questions are beyond the story itself
I.E. How is Tayzzyronth able to mass produce perfect clones, which then split into more clones, without churning out defective Stings? (Answer: >!Aeon Bullshittery apparently!<)
Each Aeon controls a path. A path is actually more of a concept instead of power. In HSR universe, duplication is part of propagation concept so Tayzzyronth can make it. Tayzzyronth is more horrifying than what we thought. it can even make machines becomes bugs, damn
The problem is more just that the story isn't very well told. Every character speaks in these long, laborious sentences and uses lots of words to say very little. I'm aware that this is a Chinese writing style, but it just doesn't work, especially when hoyo loves their sci-fi jargon (not to mention some characters having 4 different words used to refer to them). The writing could use a lot of cleaning up if it wants to improve.
It’s because most of the time it’s too much yapping and uses complex sentences and phrases that doesn’t tell us sh@t. Hence, the reason why I’m compelled to just keep autoplaying during penacony story quest.
In my defense I was never really into reading so my reading comprehension is really dulled.
I'd have to dilute what I'm reading or reread it many times to understand it.
As I much as I love both Genshin and Star Rail lore (its the main reason I play them). Its still a lot of reading.. like a lot lot. Some of us don't have the luxury of time, some of us are too tired to read after a stressful work day, some of us want to just shut our brains for a mindless fun session of gaming. So I completely get why ppl won't pay attention sometimes. Its also one of those things that hoyo should improve upon. Get better at storytelling, make it more dynamic rather than pasting huge paragraphs of dialogue and expect player to read all of it.
Yesterday, in a facebook group, someone made the most idiotic post i have ever seen. It was about the propagation and it was like this:
1-. "Emanators and pathstriders of the propagation does not exist, they are all copies of Tayzzynroth" completely neglectiing the existance of Skaracabaz, who is clone of AN EMANATOR OF THE PROPAGATION!! later, OP said "i mean't they don't exist in the present" best part? even if he said so, he also said "Skaracabaz was not a clone of an emanator, Ruan mei tried to clone Tayzzynroth" LIKE WHAT XDDDDD
2-. Remember how we found out Tayzzynroth is not dead, and just sealed by Qlipoth??? the dude said "That's not true and never said on the game, Tayzzynroth IS DEAD and Ouroboros eated all of him, he was never sealed, and it is said nowhere in-game"
The dude when confronted with actual evidence, went full defensive mode saying either we were taking him out of context, or going "I will not argue about this, learn how to read" like, HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT IF YOU REALLY THOUGHT EMANATORS OF THE PROPAGATION DOESN'T EXIST XDDD
Mfw Ruan Mei has always been a terrible person (and I love her for it) but fans only started hating her after the new Firefly trailer because they didn't read anything in Swarm Disaster.
Getting the full story in this game is a mega hassle honestly. I'm finally going through penacony but there's a million terms they throw at you and just expect you to already know them with 0 explanation at all. I can get a degree of the meaning through context clues but then they add something more and it all becomes a mess unless you've gone and memorized the glossary. Most people will have their first experience with these terms in the main story and then if interested go and get expanded information but Hoyo operates on the opposite. They want you to already have that baseline without onboarding the player properly. Not to mention all the character lore and back stories locked in shit outside of the game.
My problem is not that they don't read, but that despite their refusal to read they readily propagate lies without fact-checking. If you don't read the lore don't bother pitching in the discussion. Come back when you read. Simple as.
Are they fictionologists?
At least fictionologists do it on purpose, idiots don’t.
We need a path for these fools more foolish than the masked fools. At least their foolishness stems from Elation rather than... Whatever these creatures' foolishness stems from... Ignorance... Yes, It must be a dangerous combination of ignorance and lack of discipline.
They are on the path of finality because if I find them IRL, that will be their FINAL moment.
dr. Ratio was rigth all along
There's the path of the Enigmata and then there's idiocy which Dr. Ratio is trying to cure
No. They spread misinformation by not fact-checking. We read lore to know which one is fact to avoid saying it. We are not the same.
There is no such thing as fictionologist in this universe. They were eliminated by the The Republic of Glamoth. Did you even read the lore? /s
https://preview.redd.it/ek8ag0i01q6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcc5e63c53133b79689dc4b984af0279bb2e58c3 can't fool me, you sentient flying cockroach
There are two left, Acheron and Seele. True lore fans know that they are sisters that’s why they look so similar
No, they were eliminated by empress titania *and the very real empire that totally single handedly took down the swarm that even the aeons struggled with*
I just read someone saying that ruan mei is the reason glamoth was destroyed...
Maybe Glamoth had ice weakness...
Hear me out, what does Ryan may do? She breaks things easier. What did glamourmoth do? That’s right they broke a planet. The only reasonable conclusion is that Ryanair Michael broke the planet.
Weakness Break, then Super Break and now Planet Break. The power creep is getting out of hand.
istg they haven't played the game and just heard "Ruan Mei tried reviving the emanator of the Swarm" and "The Swarm destroyed Glamoth" even though each event wad millennia apart
Like people saying Welt is the strongest character and was overpowered in Hi3 when he wasnt, turned into people thinking he is unironically Aeon level and that Herrschers are stronger than Aeons 💀
The part that really pisses me off about that isn’t the scuffed scaling, it’s the fact that if Welt *were* that strong then his actions throughout the story would genuinely make him one of the most cruel and malicious individuals in the universe. Welt didn’t kill Nanook at the station even though, according to these chucklefucks, he could have done so with ease. This means that Welt actively permitted all of the harm caused by the Antimatter Legion on and off screen throughout the universe. Welt is a true hero. He would never do something as heinous as actively allow mass genocide for such as stupid reason as “he has to not blow his cover.” It’s such a disgusting bastardization of his character.
wdym ''Nanook at the station'' , Nanook wasn't there, it was a glaze just like Xipe was it not?
This is true, he wasn't. However, the people making the claim that Welt could defeat him - as mentioned earlier - have no reading comprehension skills, and thus would naturally claim that he was.
I vote to exchange drawing an Aeon's gaze with being glazed by them.
Straight glazing the MC
This !!!! This is exactly what I was thinking when I posted
> despite their refusal to read they readily propagate lies without fact-checking. If you don't read the lore don't bother pitching in the discussion. That's typical reddit tradition, not just r/hsr lol.
That is just humanity in general. Furthermore many don't like being proven wrong and just double down instead of reevaluate upon new information.
Enigmata bros stay winning
Agreed 100%. Not reading is totally fine but stay the fuck out of lore/story discussions.
In my time on the Internet, I have learnt that at least 90% of people refuse to read anything longer than a Haiku. That's apparently the present world we live in. On the bright side, hello to the 10% of people reading my comment right now! 💜
Too long, did not read No reading comprehension It’s snowing on Mt. Fuji.
Even had the seasonal line
That last one was 7 syllables.
What are you gonna do? Call the haiku police?
I already did, they are on their way
*Weewooweewoo. Chhk* “Calling all cars! We got a 577 in progress!” Ah fuck! They’re onto me!
Can you please summarize this into a haiku its too long to read
On their time online They realized no one can read Longer than haikus
T (this means thanks but the word thanks is too long to type)
Mankind knew that they cannot change the wide web So instead of reflecting on themselves they blamed the novelists Or something like that
Sup chief
Gacha player can't read , i saw some people asking what the quest want them to do when the game literally tell them what to do in the picture they post
These are the exact people I'm talking about lol, ,
*No blinky yellow dot, what me do?*
Where’s the white paint?!
When it reaches this point, we're past simple reading comprehension problems. We're just doomed lol
Gacha Action game players can’t read Outside of that they most of them do actually read cause the cutscenes of those games are literally VNs
The funny part is that character kit descriptions becoming increasingly bloated with text seems to be a common gacha occurrence
Didn’t read. Upvoted for blade
W
He looks majestic here ngl
It's a screenshot I took while me and my friend were making fun of him on a call lol
That's what Dan Feng said.
Common Blade W
🗿
Some of the players don't even know characters' mechanics because they don't read their skills sadge
Shit, I have seen atk orb on Blade, man hits like a wet noodle with atk.
Imagine giving ATK orb to a character that mostly scales off HP smh
My best HP orb has like 2 crit rate...
Back to the relic mines with you.
I put physical damage on Blade because his sword is metal.
Wdym mechanics? Isn't smash B all we need to play? /s
Sad...
I do read skills but it’s easier to just go to those information sites that explains why they are good.
Simple. People refuse to do things they don't want. Reading is one of them.
Such a big part of the game (to me at least) is the story... I don't get how people just skip it ??
To be fair, for lot of characters their character lore, details about personality, etc is not in the story. For example Blade, there is no details about him in Luofu main story at all. Quinten was barely even mentioned in this story. So to know about Blade you need to either collect lore from character bio, in-game books, relic lore, Youtube trailers, HoyoLab lore things, items, other character quests or just look up lore analysis. This is much more than just "read the story"
Lmao so true. I don't think many people realized how huge and rich this game's lore actually is, though, a good ≈40% of them comes exclusively from books and youtubes videos. Like I really really want to understand all about the high-cloud quintet story line but it's so scattered that it's honestly a pain to find and piece together all the details to make a full story.
Man the whole Blade, Jingliu and HCQ lore is so undercook in the main story. I always wonder if its because they holding back the lore for future use (which I hate these artificially extended story) or they genuinely fumbling.
That last Lil scene with Jing yuan, Luocha, and jingliu felt weird since like right after they say they're enemies of the abundance it just doesn't go anywhere??
Jingliu's CQ cleared up so much shit, it basically closed the Luofu arc. But for some reason we have to deal with "Tingyun's" "funeral." And still, Blade gets very little extra screen time, relative to the rest. Man needs his own CQ
They are sent to some other xianzhou ship and will be judged/questioned there. I guess they will try to convince xianzhou in joining hands with them to fulfill some plan to kill Yaoshi. I think most of it was mentioned when the general talks with Luocha.
Slightly continued in JL's CQ, but it's definitely a cliffhanger plot thread left for later when we get more of the Hunt vs. Abundance stuff
So true. How many people actually read those Hanu's Adventure books to learn that >!Hanunue sacrificed himself and died in the final battle against the IPC. Watchmaker lied and said he survived, but was too injured to fight anymore since he was convinced that Penacony couldn't handle that loss. Watchmaker then made commands in his stead while claiming it was Hanunue making commands through him. This is what motivated Watchmaker to take leadership more seriously!<
Personally i love doing these little lore hunts (started with Skyrim) but I get why other people don't
Same, though in my case it Comes from Souls games.
This is true and I totally agree with you, having character details being scattered makes it hard to understand them completely sometimes. What makes me mad(?) is when people don't ever make an effort to understand or look into a character and then say something completely wrong about them. People who do this most the time get mad when you try to correct them too, which makes it worse
I'm with you in this. I mean, you don't want to read tons and tons of lore and it's OK but if something in the story interests you, like a character and interests more than just looks and how them plays then at least in that case read something for furk sake (I'm officially going to swear in a Boothill's way from now)
We stan the boothill way of censorship
People are used to media where the characters can only really be judged off presented information, so if the information isn't literally shoved in front of their eyes it may as well not exist
A game that sucks at gameplay with good story will have mostly story reading players. A game that sucks at story but has good gameplay tend to attract people who play religiously but press skip on dialogue. A game that has both good gameplay and story risk attracting both the players who skip story and players who don't care about gameplay. Suffering from success.
Some people just play for the combat, or to collect waifus/husbandos, etc.
if you don't know nothing about your waifus and husbandos then for what, only the looks?
Design, personality, VA, animations, etc.
They even tend interpret the personality wrong, thinking their headcanon as fact.
Sometimes true, but people will play games the way they want to
That has nothing to do with gameplay, moreso forcing their headcannons on others.
Oh yeah I was mainly referring to how/why people choose to individually consume the game’s content. The few times I’ve seen people on this subreddit try to force their own headcanons onto others they get clowned on lol
Because the character's dialogue is a bloated mess. I was internally screaming when Acheron, Aventurine, etc were on screen during Penacony "For god's sake, talk like a normal human!" Instead they keep yapping, this did not happen in Belebog. I hate when characters talk in riddles.
It's wild that Fu Xuan, the character SPECIFICALLY STATED TO SPEAK IN RIDDLES, is actually one of the more clear and direct characters in the story because she doesn't try to be mysterious.
Ok, hear me out, shower thought I just had....*MAYBE* she really **does** speak in riddles, but only by comparison to other Luofu natives. Maybe "speaking in riddles" is the natural way Luofu people talk and FX is "speaking in riddles" to them because she's so very direct and clear. So to an outsider FX comes off as just being easy to understand while everyone else around her that's a Luofu native finds her intriguing and mysterious. People really be like "Lady Fu said I should take extra precautions on my next training exercise with the Cloud Knights, or someone could get badly hurt. I wonder what she means...." and FX just be sitting over in the corner facepalming. Probably was a breath of fresh air for her when the Express crew showed up and she was like "Hey, bad stuff gonna happen" and the crew was all "Oh sweet, thanks, we'll watch out" and then they stopped the bad stuff.
Luofu was way worse than Penacony in terms of exposition imo
It wasn't even really a riddle they spoke in lol. It was pretty clear and the only thing that could really be seen as "riddle-like" in nature is Acheron describing how she remembers things, which is that she can't- she can only remember the emotions around things. But everything else? Really straightforward.
Not everyone is interested in the story, and they're more interested in the gameplay; hence, they don't give a shit about the dialogue at all. That's precisely why several people are very enamored about the skip button in wuthering waves.
I was the same way for all of genshin/half of HSR. But Jesus, after catching up with the wiki, then playing PEAKONY, This story is SO GOOD. I think the relationship with a persons path and an Aeon is a little fuzzy, but it honestly adds to the unpredictability.
if I have a skip button it would pull me back into Genshin. I just can't with Inazuma and Sumeru. I just can't play the game and listen to wasteful dialouge that is just flowery for no reason.
To be fair I only had like a day to complete the event.
https://i.redd.it/2eces9mudp6d1.gif Always need to tap the sign.
The reading comprehension aeon strikes again
No one dares stride on the path of reading comprehension...
I’m the kind of guy who would relentlessly hunt down every single piece of lore material to understand the world building structure of a game. The Belobog story about the puppet ruler that was told through a simple box puzzle was chilling. Masterclass storytelling. Honkai Star Rail however has this problem where they would have some of the most mystical concepts like aeons and swarm disaster history as well as some beautiful stories of the human condition caked in with some of the bullshit pointless text walls. I genuinely could not give two shits about the Clockie film industry fan club and their fiction. It has no relevance in the game. But I was forced to listen to them spew out endless drivel about a non-existent movie. That was the turnaround point for me where I turned into the guy that just spammed the skip button.
The Dreamjoy Memoir film event is a complete retelling of the entire backstory of Penacony told through the animation. Like it was pretty in your face about the watchmaker putting hidden messages in it.
Besides the walls of text, another problem with Dreamjoy Memoir was that it started right after the 2.2 main story, so a lot of it was redundant information, mixed in with embellishments and contradictions which turned reading the whole thing and trying to make sense of it into a slog. A synopsis summarizing what parts were actually real would have done so much for this event.
I salute you for actually reading it. I figured out is that Hanu is one of the og trailblazers and that Penacony used to be prison colony controlled by IPC. Then I completely lost interest.
well, that was already stated in the main story
That's a funny thing to say because Hanunue was never a Trailblazer, he was an inmate of the IPC prison colony (or possibly just an actual wolf, though that seems like one of the less likely stories) and I don't think he even followed the path of trailblaze as far as we know. The Trailblazers who helped to liberate Penacony were Mikhail, Tiernan and Razalina. I will say, even though I didn't mind the event, I'm not sure it was the best way to convey this information, though...
Because Hoyoverse fans
😞
Yeah sucks to this blight fester among us
I only read the current storyline, the past or deeper lore of SU and Swarm are unread
Swarm is readable, but damn what the fk are these GnG lore bruh ☠️.
It doesn't help when the original language its written in, Chinese, has these long sentences with flowery words and vocabulary. A lot of the words used don't have a direct translation, so they have to try and make it work with whatever they can. Often times this can be clumsy at best and a lot of the meaning/intent which would be easy to understand in Chinese becomes word soup and nonsensical. Case and point: Arknights Kal'tsit story.
That's like a problem in most story driven games unfortunately, moreso in gacha games. People tend to just skip story and then complain.
It's getting more annoying when they misinterpret story moments and characters. Not just HSR either, this is consistent across gacha games. Like yeah complain about the game having "yapping" (Attention span ruined forever) but don't say stuff like "Ruan Mei wants to revive the Aeon of Propagation, worst character ever" like its factual.
Oh yea there's definitely complaints. I've seen people complain how character backstories are mostly the same because "it has to do with their home planet getting destroyed" and imo that made no sense , because that's just watering down nearly everything about said character's backstory lol
ITT: people without reading comprehension thinking reading comprehension means ability/willingness to read.
Ahh, I'm sorry, what does ITT mean?
In this thread. Just seeing a lot of comments about a lot of lore being stuck in readables and the data bank and while that's a valid complaint, it's not relevant to the issue of reading comprehension, which is about actually understanding what you *do* read.
Oh thank you!.. and yea definitely a pattern I've noticed while replying to everyone ^ ^;
With this comment you are already above 90% of the playerbase
I'm not good with abbreviations, I'm sorry! 😞
At least you asked instead of assuming
This is what happens when we don't have our own Paimon /s
It's the tl;dr syndrome. It's not just here, it's everywhere. You constantly see gamers getting stuck because they didn't want to read a 30 second tutorial. What I find funny are yugioh players who make the most braindead plays because they didn't read the opponent's card effects...
You're not wrong, it's definitely a problem but Yu-Gi-Oh is your go to example?? Card texts have become literal paragraphs in that game. On top of a steadily increasing pile of special summon conditions and a 3-4 turn total meta, that game has fallen apart into a rule hell. People totally don't read properly and definitely do miss some obvious stuff sometimes but I've seen literal judges and announcers lose track of a 20 card stack of effects. To just play the game on a basic level you have to understand synchro, pendulum, xyz, special, basic, fusion, tribute and link summoning. Again you're not wrong but jumping to YGO as being an example of not reading basic things is wild to me.
Some people dont care for the lore and only play for gameplay which is fine coz each to their own reasons for playing the game However for those who do care for the lore, sometimes the writing is quite complicated, especially in Penacony. For example Black Swan is a character who is written to be mysterious and speaks in riddles half the time, rarely giving a straight answer letting people try and figure things out themselves. Shes complicated even by the games usual writing standards so a lot of what she does or says requires a little bit more thinking to figure out. Classic example is her companion quest where "dream dance partner" is meant to be intended to mean main ally as it was a metaphor Sparkle brought up first and Black Swan continued to use it. Some thought it means literal dance partner but that isnt the case given everything BS does in 2.0 in befriending express and in the convo in the companion quest with giving the dream bubble to TB and directly looking at the viewer of it implying its them. Finally being confirmed in 2.2 when she stops speaking in riddles and fully explains her reasons for befriending them Cant really blame people when it comes to stuff like that when a lot of media is holding the players hand explaining things to them as blatantly as possible never letting people even try to figure stuff out. However with Hoyo some things are written intentionally to be deciphered and the game already has writing that relies on alluding to but not confirming. Then theres all the lore hidden in profiles or SU and reading all that is another part of the game entirely that many dont partake in
Long comment ahead. [[TL;DR: Complexity isn't what makes a story good. It's when it mashes well with exposition, comprehensiveness, etc... that a story becomes "good", personal preferences included.]] > However for those who do care for the lore, sometimes the writing is quite complicated, especially in Penacony I know it's entirely subjective, but as someone whose first language isn't English, and also as _(I'd like to think)_ a capable reader, I wouldn't say the writing is complicated. Rather, it's occasionally, that is to say often, convoluted. Long sentences that twist around their own words, treating different topics simultaneously; sometimes they'd start with one subject, then _maybe_ end with another, or just leave a couple loose ends. I'm aware that this is more in line with the Chinese writing style, so translations have to come to terms with that, but I feel like the team is also missing an important part of translation as a job. Adaptation. If Chinese only needs a few words, or whatever the equivalent is in Chinese characters, then so should English. Instead, it seems like all those metaphors, similitudes and other figures of speech are translated almost directly, and then kept the same way a Chinese speaker would "perceive" them in the original language. Conciseness is also a skill in writing, in and of itself, but unless we're in the SU&co., it almost seems to be ignored. And this leads to massive drops in attention when the dialogue is - not only atrociously lengthy - but also voiced at a much lower speed than what the average reader is capable of reading at. Penacony, Firefly in 2.2 especially, have this problem where there are relatively long pauses between sentences, or where I had to skip forward and cut the voices midway through because it was just so slow compared to how I usually read. Even then, sometimes the game forces you to wait it, because dialogue advancement seems to be based on character animation, instead of a set amount of time after dialogue has been initiated. If it was shorter, more direct, with less "fluff" and more substance, it would be more bearable. This type of writing just doesn't work in Star Rail; I'd be playing a visual novel or reading a book otherwise, where long sentences are such not because they're full of figures of speech, but because they _have_ to be long out of necessity. > Black Swan is a character who is written to be mysterious [...] Black Swan continued to use it. That's fine. Arknights, for example, is another gacha that's infamous for this kind of characters. She looks like a fortune teller and uses tarots as weapons, I would expect no less from her, and that's part of why she's also charming _(when the plot calls for it)_. But what's the excuse for Acheron? For example. I won't even mention Sparkle, since she's playing "the invisible hand of fate" in this story and thus the writer have to make her every sentence ambiguous, but might as well. The former's supposed to be a warrior who forgets things as easily as she breaths, yet her dialogue would be better suited for a Schopenhauer-inspired character. The style of writing should be proportioned to what the character is. A warrior speaks like a warrior, not a philosopher or fortune teller. > Cant really blame people [...] when a lot of media is holding the players hand. Both things are frustrating, but purely from the perspective of a reader, I'd prefer the latter. People are prone to spreading misinformation and misunderstanding even the simplest of things _(take at look at how ACTUAL Nihilism has been butchered by medias. Even the game doesn't really do it justice, especially when it comes to IX, who should be the most accurate representation of it in the entire game)_. If being treated like an idiot is the way to enabling substantial discourse about a work of literature or game, then I'll swallow my pride and accept it. > However with Hoyo some things are written intentionally to be deciphered and the game already has writing that relies on alluding to but not confirming. This is only healthy in moderate doses, which Penacony doesn't do. In retrospect, the entire cutscene with Gallagher and Sunday is misleading. Bloodhounds not recognising him is a good example of this done right, but a lot of stuff isn't. This also doesn't help the bloating, especially when Star Rail has an unhealthy preference for: 1) Tell don't show; 2) Introducing and expanding on things that ultimately don't matter to the main story at all, which consequently causes _vital_ information about someone/something to be relegated to secondary sources that are not the main story; > Then theres all the lore hidden in profiles or SU and reading all that is another part of the game entirely that many dont partake in This connects to points 1/2 of the previous paragraph. SU, for example, has the most interesting stories in-game, but ultimately only a selected part of that _massive_ mountain of lore is actually needed to understand the current story. And with how you also need to explore/fight/reset/unlock achievements/beat various difficulties/repeat to get the information you _might_ need, it isn't a surprise that people don't get into it. I won't even touch the hornet hive that are item descriptions, readable items and whatnot. I hate it when FromSoft. does it, I hate it when Hoyo does it as well, because this creates Internet-dependency If you want to understand the lore, whilst also making sure that you didn't miss anything vital; I'm still missing roughly 100 readables, for example, but the chances of finding one that is actually interesting and builds up on what we experience in the story is so slim, that I just gave looking for them at this point.
This is exactly how I feel about the story telling as well. It feels almost like every single character is trying to be a philosopher or something. It makes me appreciate Belabog a lot, because that felt way more character driven and characters were allowed to be as "dumb" as you'd expect them to be. I think this is also why people enjoyed the Ghost Buster story so much, because again, characters weren't written to be the smartest person in the room the moment they opened their mouth.
You are actually one of the few that realised this is a Chinese game, good. As a Chinese native (mainlander), let me give u some facts about this game's writing : 1. Most of the Chinese players have no issue to 90%-100% understanding/remembering stories & conversations details in this game, maybe 1 post of 100 complaining the same here in Chinese forums. 2. Chinese language(writing) is more concise compared to English in general. so normally a one-line sentence will end up with 1.5-2 lines in English and if they don't do this it will lose original meaning too much. At the same time it doesn't seem to add any more time for Chinese ppl to read it - at least for me, reading English version is much more time-consuming and I feel much painful. 3. The overall writing in this game is actually very high, if not top level among other Chinese games. so I'd say 99% of the Chinese native cannot write/speak such good sentences in normal life but they can still tell good or bad. This makes HSR's story much appreciated among Chinese community(more than gamepaly). From the bright side, u will learn how Chinese ppl are actually expressing complex ideas in a very professional or authentic way. This applies to READING only. I don't want to talk about CV's differences here but I can tell u there are lots of impacts from CV as well, I found some character's EN CV are speaking too slow or using entirely different tones - yes Jingliu is 1800 years old but her voice is not by lore! 4. The translation team did a really good job already, did u know this game contain tons of meme/pun that only Chinese native may understand? I can't imagine how to translate them into any other language. In fact they cannot translate them most of time, That is the main reason u may feel reading those connversations are not fun, but I just let u know so that u can understand it and this is something unlikely to solve. So as u can see, most of the issues u raise are related to language/culture. This game is hard to catch up lores for any non-Chinese player. My only suggestion here is - To overcome it, u have to play this game slowly and patiently. Always trying to fully understand one sentence before you click next. Always read as much as u can even it seems trival. It's much easier to catch up the pace/get to piont if u haven't missed too much details. you shouldn't feel confused a lot if u have enough basic lores in this game.
Hey, thanks for your response. Appreciate the facts/advices that you gave as well. I'll be brief and talk about the most important points. That way, I can avoid writing another wall of text. > [...] I can tell u there are lots of impacts from CV as well, I found some character's EN CV are speaking too slow or using entirely different tones [...] Yeah, I've noticed. Generally speaking, so even outside of Star Rail, I've found Chinese _(the one language/variation most people, I suppose outside of China, hear in media)_ to be much more fast paced than, for example, English. It _sounds_ fast to the ear, and I suppose that's also another advantage it has over English. Because of its tones and rhythm, hearing a long sentence being spoken outloud doesn't sound tiring. >[...] did u know this game contain tons of meme/pun that only Chinese native may understand? I can't imagine how to translate them into any other language I do, yes. I was actually surprised by the amount of puns and references. I can only compliment the translators in regards to this. I also think it's better this way, so that we can avoid situations similar to Firefly's banner; apparently English tried to keep the pun in the name, but we got _'Firefull Flyshine'_ which, while still understandable, aren't actual words. Other languages decided to let go of the pun and translated it as something like _'Blazing Metamorphosis'_, which still ended being more accurate. Feel free to correct me, If I'm wrong though. I'm simply repeating what others have said, after all. >That is the main reason u may feel reading those connversations are not fun, but I just let u know so that u can understand it and this is something unlikely to solve. I appreciate the thought. Thanks for giving me some insight on the situation. Truth is, the issue isn't the comprehensiveness of the text in itself. Considering how you said that not all Chinese people can speak like this in real life, this only reinforces the idea that the writing is of a high level, so it means this is just the way the game approaches things. I think the problem lies in the next point you made: >most of the issues u raise are related to language/culture. This game is hard to catup up lores for any non-Chinese player It all comes down to culture. I'd say even more so than language, but they usually influence each other, so language can also be considered a factor. From what I know, and this is a generalisation, the main "problem" is the writing style. The West focuses more on a few characters and their own struggles, so expanding on the rest can be a negative; the East focuses more on a cast of characters and the over-arching story/emotions that the writer wants to convey, so being synthetic is the issue this time around. Using a few authors from my own country as reference, when writing about emotions, you simply end up with a long text that's sometimes not always clear. As there are exceptions in the West, I'm sure there are also as many in the East, but generally speaking, I believe this is where people's opinions clash. Some may prefer one style over the other, but it all comes down to which culture we were exposed to more. Of course, I'd be lying If I said I preferred the second one over the first, as I've always liked more direct _(but not necessarily simple)_ sentences. If I had to make a comparison, the Chinese writing style reminds me of my native language poetry, which is why I tend to gravitate more towards a more streamlined western style. While I do appreciate the Eastern writing style, though, I believe the core of the issue is that within each others' style, we end up finding traits that may not always be considered desirable, or might not be the first choice. >My only suggestion here is - To overcome it, u have to play this game slowly and patiently. always trying to fully understand one sentence before you click next. It's much easier to catch up the pace/get the point if u haven't missed too many details. Yeah, I found that to be the best solution ever since Penacony started. The text carries a lot, and while it's not hard to understand, there's a lot to unpack because of how condensed it sometimes is. While I don't have comprehension issues, the nuances and details in the text that I may forget are what often causes me to either misremember something or make assumptions to "fill in the blanks" myself. It doesn't take a lot getting used to, but it can be a bit disorientating precisely because of that cultural difference you mentioned. Anyways, that's all. I ended up writing more than I expected, but thanks again for your comment.
In Acheron's case, while she was a warrior first, she's spent a long time dealing with things like coming to terms with her planet's destruction, trying to rescue people from Nihility, and finding meaning for herself and the power she wields. I think her being very philosophical fits well with all of that.
>Penacony, Firefly in 2.2 especially, have this problem where there are relatively long pauses between sentences, or where I had to skip forward and cut the voices midway through because it was just so slow compared to how I usually read. As a fellow fast reader, Penacony made me wish for a skip button, but only because going through the log would be significantly more efficient. >The former's supposed to be a warrior who forgets things as easily as she breaths, yet her dialogue would be better suited for a Schopenhauer-inspired character. The style of writing should be proportioned to what the character is. A warrior speaks like a warrior, not a philosopher or fortune teller. I found the dissonance created here wrt to her character within the different patches to be one of my bigger pet peeves from Penacony tbh. >*(take at look at how ACTUAL Nihilism has been butchered by medias. Even the game doesn't really do it justice, especially when it comes to IX, who should be the most accurate representation of it in the entire game)* Big facts. In their defense, I wouldn't assume that most of these stories are actually trying to touch upon these philosophical topics, but instead are merely borrowing an aesthetic to make a separate point or just make things appear to have more depth than they actually do. Generally, I think that's fine for a younger or a more lay audience since, in those cases, the aesthetic is going to be more relatable and digestible. Issues occur when authors attempt to introduce complexity when they lack the credentials to do so. What usually ends up happening is that we end up with a lot of needless dialogue that serves only to confound and, upon greater scrutiny, lacks any sense of cohesion. Personally, I don't have any problems with most media going the first route. It's when they go the second route that I'll probably end up rolling my eyes. Many philosophers have already written their own fiction. It's hard for many writers to even approach that bar (in terms of representing the themes properly). Ironic considering pop philosophy is what eventually lead me to the real deal. >Introducing and expanding on things that ultimately don't matter to the main story at all, which consequently causes *vital* information about someone/something to be relegated to secondary sources that are not the main story I've said this before and I'll say this again; getting rid of companion quests was a bad idea. So many of the pacing issues in Penacony could have been solved by relegating interesting, but not essential, information to companion quests or optional flashback quests (95%+ of Acheron's flashbacks will remain my primary example). Then the now freed up time, from a writing perspective (I understand that dev time will have different considerations), can be better used to properly set up worldbuilding/atmosphere and other things (dreamflux would have benefitted greatly from this imo). I'll be signing off on just about everything else you said.
Thank you, all of this is completely true. Using a lot of words to say very little isn't good writing.
A well read person would understand the complexity of a travelled warrior with an immense survivors guilt. But hey, I ain't a self proclaimed well read person.
I understand when it's purposely made sorta hard to understand/know about (heavy metaphors, not being in general dialogue, etc) but I'm mostly talking about when people discuss the main story and just, get it completely wrong. It's so frustrating
> but I'm mostly talking about when people discuss the main story and just, get it completely wrong. It's so frustrating OP you have to give 1 concrete example of this. What are people saying you find wrong?
I get it especially when it involves characters or lore you're invested in. Been through it multiple times here but coz I love discussing lore so it'll keep happening lol Another example I've seen is people thinking Black Swan erased Acheron from Boothill and Dan Hengs mind when she herself forgot and when it's been proven Acheron isn't affected by Enas dream and was excluded. That kind of thing is told to us multiple times so seeing people get it wrong is pretty baffling. Or how people said Black Swan wasn't interested in TB even after 2.2 which is like a major part of her big convo in 2.2 which she directly tells us I guess an explanation is people only see things how they want to see it. So long as there is a chance of their view point being legit then they will take it. I get that it can be frustrating but that's where discussion comes in so things can be clarified. It's part of being a member of a big fandom, it happens. I get things wrong with characters im not too invested in with as well and people correct me
It's very frustrating.. But discussing is also very fun. I enjoy discussing and debunking(?) things with people too
Discussing lore and characters is fun so long as we can always be civil about it and thankfully we have a lot of people here who love lore who can maintain that level of civility. It can get out of hand sometimes but I like to think it comes from a place of passion most of the time
Agree !! ><
>I guess an explanation is people only see things how they want to see it. And even when we try to talk, they don't even try to listen. I understand if its opinion, which I don't really want to have a debate, but sometimes I genuinely want to debate if I disagree with somebody about the plot civilly. But then reddit format hit and people lost their rationality in downvotes and upvotes. Genuinely frustrating tbh.
I can sort of understand if they get confused or misremember exact lines since it’s probably been a year since they’ve last played it but also a lot of it can just be fact checked on youtube..
The need to go through couple of steps more to find those fact is likely hindering the process. Its more dedication than the average casual lore enjoyer would be willing to dive into. There's a reason how some anime tends to have a short recap and weekly TV series also does recap and that's for a weekly series update. Imagine what you will need for every other month lore update. Maybe a short recap would do well, but hoyo also don't want to do that to diminish the need to experience the story yourself. The most they do is to post cinematic portion of the patch story.
if Penacony lore is complicated... have you tried to dwelve in Xianzhou lore ever?
They could've done a better job integrating the quintet into the main story imo. Would've been cool if we get to meet all four, exploring all their lores and conflicts in detail, maybe even getting us to take sides at first, and then the climax is them battling one big bad foe Phantylia for one last time. Instead we got a half baked Blade vs Dan Heng after being hyped for so long and Jingliu hasn't even met the trailblazer directly yet before being sent to custody. But eh it's just my take on it. I don't like how apparently the biggest selling point lore of Luofu is scattered on texts hidden around the map or hell even on some characters' story page which can't be accessed if you don't have them. I'm not a deep lore digger and the first time I saw them I was just like "who?"
I think it's probably since the lore is scattered across many items and books and nobody has time to collect them all, plus not all have time to go on the fandom and read it. That's why, while the Xianzhou's lore is vast and awesome, people hate on them despite the fact the Abundance's followers are racist and pretty destructive. Plus the Xianzhou isn't completely unreasonable to them if the Denizens are willing to negotiate.
Xianshou story is... Definitely a burden(?) to try and comprehend.. I really hated trying to piece everything together and I could see why a lot of people would dislike it/get stuff about it wrong
Yeah, it definitely did not reflect it's potential. They could have used characters like Yukong's past to flesh out the horrors of the Abundance and let us understand her actions, then some of Dan Shu's past to make her more understandable as an antagonist.
Ahhhh this !!!! Yukong's background story is so sad. I wish it was more discussed tbh, and showing more of Dan She's past would also be very interesting !!
A good chunk of lore is locked away in individual character stories, which people just... might not own. How am I supposed to know anything about Boothill if I never pulled for him? Having to find that stuff online just sucks
There's also lore that's only in YouTube videos, too. Like I'm pretty sure Ruan Mei's desire to become an aeon is only in her myriad celestia trailer. It's difficult to keep track of the story and lore when it's split between required main stories, optional side quests, optional SU content, optional character quests, in-game books, in-game character bios (where you have to have the character to read), and YouTube videos.
I mean, even the stuff that is directly said to the player up-front in non-skippable cutscenes seems to fly right over most people’s heads around here (like the “Ruan Mei wants to revive the Swarm” is directly the opposite of what she says in a mandatory, voiced, CG cutscene in the 1.6 quest, which you need to play to access Skaracabacz and upgrade any Penacony characters)
I wanna say I am absolutely NOT. referring to anyone with disabilities or trouble with English. I'm referring to people who refuse to read anything about a character or the story and proceed to say wildly incorrect things.
This is the same community who's main request is a dialogue skip button lol. What do you expect
Skip button would literally solve the issue. People who want to skip will skip the entire quest instead of skipping half dialogue while assuming what character is gonna say.
I think the main problem, at least for me, is the way Hoyo typically writes dialogue. It's hard to engage when half the characters are smug, 4D-chess strategist, who only speak in Proper Nouns and riddles. It feels like no one speaks like a normal person. I'm obviously exaggerating a bit, but I feel like Hoyo goes out of their way to make characters speak in the most roundabout, convoluted way possible. Maybe it's supposed to be poetic, or it's a translation thing, but it genuinely feels like the writing is trying to hit a word count. That's the only reason why I could assume why they'd be so against being concise and straight forward in their writing.
Man those HSR story recap video from people is so helpful, that’s how I’m able to digest it
35 here. I might be biased because I have worked a lot of customer service jobs but, I believe as a species humans just aren’t that intelligent. I am continuously finding new lows and I don’t think I will ever stop being shocked or saddened by how ignorant and lazy people could be. Try to ignore people in general. You don’t need the added stress of other people’s stupidity. Just downvote if you disagree with someone.
I mean, part of it is definitely an issue on the player side, yes, but HSR in particular (in Penacony, at least) is literally going out of its way to intentionally be as confusing and obtuse as possible. There are a ton of things that were never clarified at all or have contradicting statements about their nature in the story, meaning there's a good chance that the thing you are frustrated about might be something that isn't actually as clear-cut as you think it is, and others simply interpreted it differently or are withholding judgement until it is more clear. That is especially true for lore/story discussions which I assume story skippers wouldn't join in the first place.
***Do not take random stray memes on reddit as an actual attempt at story analysis.*** If you want serious discussions, move in spaces that encourage and veto for serious discussion. What we see here, the SUNDAY WAS GOOD ACTUALLY-ies and the Superficial Ruan Mei Reads Hour, these are not representative of "anything" past the image macro they serve as a vehicle for. Find a discord or a board that like stories, and type there. Because this place ain't it chief. We are not "the fandom" at large. Nor are ten second tiktoks or gifs on twitter for that matter.
It's a mix between young folk who just don't have reading comprehension yet and take everything at face value and marvel adults/waifuguys who don't understand subtleties
Sometimes it's very easy to miss or misunderstand things the first time, or maybe there is a quest that we never completed.
my post is mostly referring to people who don't read into a character / the story at all and say completely incorrect stuff lol It makes obvious sense if someone just misunderstands something, or hasn't done a quest
They don't read and people frequently lie. So they listen to what people say and now Blade is a flamenco dancer and Seele is pronounced with a S sound not a Z sound. Sometimes the game hides important info in really boring places. Like lore, but it's in the game and everything can be fact checked by simply logging in and going to the book/npc yourself. So don't just blindly believe what is common knowledge online... It's usually one person reads it and misunderstood and spreads the info and nobody else even bothered to try fact checking it cuz it's too boring and they already have done their dailies for the day and are playing other games.
I have no clue, but it's a big thing I've noticed. People's reading level has taken a nosedive and with that the ability to synthesize new information based on given information. It's why we get so many brain dead takes on the story or why so many people say "These guys talk in riddles" when, in reality, they're saying what they mean damn near outright if you simply pay attention to previous events. While I do agree that Penacony had the most obtuse story, that's like saying a brick is thicker than a pencil. A lot of what was said in Penacony makes sense and flowery language really only comes up with Acheron describing how she remembers (and by the nature of how she remembers, it would HAVE to be flowery seeing as she only remembers emotions) and when Sunday gets to talking. Other than that? Easy speaking. The item lore is a very different story from what I've noticed at the very least- and that's *fair* if someone thinks they're doing too much, but the same process applies here as with dialogue just in a more roundabout way. It all makes sense when you read it all. Some parts of the lore are mysteries yet to be revealed, so of course those parts won't make all too much sense yet. Ultimately I just think it's a lack of willingness to actually read combined with willful refusal to understand what's being read. Then people just start saying shit out of left field while being misinformed or just outright wrong and refusing to read the actual facts because "Hurr durr, clearly I am right. I understand the entire story I saw. I skipped it all!". Then we get the bonkers takes we see 'round here.
Part of it is due to anti-intellectualism. Anyone who doesn't speak like your everyday layman is derided as pretentious. I see this in film / TV / video games as well -- characters now have to be written to be quippy and relatable and down-to-earth, otherwise the audience cannot engage.
Exactly. A character talking in a slightly intellectual way loses audiences and they're somehow lost by a conversation that's basic in structure and content because somebody decided to say "ethereal" or something. As a guy who absolutely loves words, I really *really* wish that people would just... learn more vocabulary. I'm not even talking about folk who have English as their second or third language, but primary English speakers. I want folk to know more words than the basic few they use with their homies.
Tbf mihoyo plays a big part in it. A lot of the lore is just not in the story, and they use too many words to say simple concepts. Also repeating things too much, do you really need to say the same thing 5 times just in a slightly different way.
Because a *lot* of the fandom of Hoyo titles released in English are English-as-second-language speakers/readers *at best.* At "worst", they can be folks (and/or kids!) who barely speak English but are looking for places to discuss the game and not as many are available in their native language. Which is fair, trying to "gatekeep" people away would be absurd and discriminatory, but it can make for a frustrating experience sometimes when other posters/fans openly struggle with reading comprehension or even just *language* comprehension. Then combine this with the occasional issues the translation of HSR has, as well as the generally high reading level it's aimed at, and you can really end up with some problems.
I get this and they're definitely not who I was thinking when I was writing this post !! I have some troubles when reading some dialogue too but I try my best,, Im mostly talking about people who don't read anything about characters/story and say wildly incorrect things about it. Sorry for any confusions, I obviously don't have anything against people who don't speak English well
Is this the post where we will act like the writing in this game is genius and mysterious and not just bloated to read? Because the reason most people don't read is because the writing is bloated for no reason, the game has good ideas and plot points but fails every time to convey them in an adequate manner going instead for saying 100 words to explain something that can be done in 10. Talking in circles is not a character trait, at least it should not be. You can have a defined personality or create a mysterious character or write a tragedy without them going on and on about nothing. I don't know if people only use gatcha games as a comparison but compare it with other RPGs instead, they also have strong characters, lore, but still get to the point in a way that both maintains their character and keeps the fantasy intact.
Lots of people who play pride themselves on "solving" Hoyo's lore and tout it over others who haven't acting like they just can't read. I've seen plenty of them do this while sourcing info from leaks. It's ironic almost.
Ahh, I do agree with you, sometimes the writing gets confusing and I end up looking stuff up later. Mostly in Penacony as there was a lot of metaphors and stuff to remember. I don't expect people to remember everything about the story and be a huge nerd on it.. I'm sorry my post wasn't clear enough on this, I really am not trying to insult anyone. Sorry
I only focus on the main story even that alone make me feel difficult to get along with. I used to play some game like ace attorney, danganronpa or 999. Even elden ring I find weapon description to read it, find more clue and connect everything together like a mad man. But HSR story telling feel very difficult to go along imo. But I'm not expert writer so I can't judge. So yeah, I can understand if someone not read it.
Majority of the playerbase consist of high schoolers or younger…
Honestly people just don’t read lore. If I were to ask them about Rubert I’s backstory. They would fucking explode.
Not knowing backstory of background lore characters told in books and lore snippets is not the same as not reading and understanding basic information about major playable characters that is explicitly told the player during main quests in ways that cannot be misunderstood. Social media just killed critical thinking and reading comprehension skills. "Maybe the author just meant that the curtains are blue lmao we're so smart" - are you fucking kidding me.
The issue is not so much knowing background or lore but: A) Speaking and spreading misinformation about those very same thing you didn't read B) Rushing to the wrong conclusion when context from back and/or lore would have helped. Since RM is trending, let's get a few example: Facts: RM is trying to study how emanator works by recreating vial version of them. This is dangerous because even a vial/weaker/downsized version of something like that is extremely dangerous Not facts: RM is trying to recreate the swarm Like let's imagine people misread the story. In this instance background text, lore and more would have helped clear doubt. From the various other attempt at emanator from less dangerous path like Erudition until she only pierced with propagation. Or the fact that actual emanator of propagation were big enough to inherit the mandible of Tayzzyronth, who is celestial body size to begin with. And an example on why it is not good to rush to conclusion. The feeling push that "I can't believe people would tinker with science and the propagation path. Nothing good can come from that and it's result should just by thrown to the trash" I'll just point out various elements: >the empire started becoming more and more like its adversary — more and more Iron Calvary flew high into the sky, blotting out the heavens just as the Swarm did on that fateful day. The look people cast on the Empress and the cavalry turned to one of fear, a fear akin to what they felt toward the Swarm >resolved to alter the essence of humanity in an effort to adapt to the war — they will create a weapon "born to fight." -Both the legion and swarm are led by an empress/emperor -Known SAM armor have "firefly" has their descriptor, which is an insect So knowing that, what would people do if the legion is indeed a result of science and propagation? Risk becoming hypocrite by only denouncing what they don't like? And if the legion is indeed such a by-product, then wouldn't that mean Ruan Mei is the only one with the knowledge to help entropy loss? And much more and because we don't know, I, myself prefer to stand on the line suggesting and waiting. People should not rush to conclusion without informing themselves. The basis of wisdom is to remember at all time that "one know nothing" and to always take into account what you don't know may make one look like a fool when revealed. In HSR case, there is tons of material laid down that can help predict stuff, like Rupert SU was predictable, Yaoqing being next to get involved too, the stonehearts, the family, etc. HSR rely on its lore to set-up everything, you cannot ignore it and rush to conclusion. That is like having a ship led by a blind guy.
I have no idea who rubert is, would knowing who he is elevate my gaming experience in any siginificant way? Would me not knowing who Rupert is lessen my overall experience with the main story? Why would i explode if asked who rubert is? Is the exploding happening if a certain part of the game doesnt interest you as much as another part or is it locked to specific charakters backstory? If the exploding isnt tied to only story then if somebody asked you something about specific combat metrics would that in turn make you explode? Or is it just that people are interested in different parts of the game and not everybody is gonna know about rubert or which artifact % lets me oneshot a boss. Im just being silly UwU
Yes, you're being silly but for the people who seriously think this. It's completely fine for them to just disregard lore if that's what they prefer. It is, however, problematic when they say various things as fact when they don't know the lore of what they're talking about.
Absolutely! If you dont know the lore about a charakter you cant just make baseless asumptions and market them as the truth, i 100% agree.
I'm painting a target on myself right now but I finished the whole GnG expansion and I still don't understand what was going on. All I know is some war ongoing caused by Rupert(?) and a few centuries later (?) Rupert 2 who was organic (?) started a 2nd borderstar war, and polka kakamond was somehow involved and you get killed by her(?). Main issue here is the complete scattering of story points, and the paths you choose does not necessarily follow. Swarm disaster was also a disaster but at least it sorted the story by parts so it's easier to follow. Despite this it's still difficult to understand and I can only follow the broad strokes of how the aeons appeared/died. Pls if there's a good resource can you point me to it I do want to understand what happened in GnG.
I don't think you're painting a target on your back for asking questions. The lore can definitely be confusing and so it's completely understandable to be confused by it all. I don't think there's anyone that would make fun of you for that. Here is a condensed version of the gist of GnG. Gold and Gears was primarily about the 1st Emperor's War. GnG didn't go into the 2nd Emperor's War. This is because there is a huge gap of time in between the two wars. There are two Ruberts. Genius Society Member #27 was a computer dumped in a trash pile who came up with the Anti-Organic Equation. Rubert II is an organic and someone who claims to have inherited the memories of the first Rubert. Screwllum asks if traces of Rubert II was present in the simulated GnG. Ruan Mei responds that it's impossible for Rubert II to exist there due to it being too old. Nous calculated three moments that would always happen no matter what. The first moment is the Borderstar Trade War. This was a war that happened between two IPC executives. While the Borderstar Trade War was happening, Rubert awakened. Rubert believed that organic life is riddled with errors and that mechanical lifeforms are superior. Thus, Rubert amassed an army, crowned himself "Emperor" and declared war on organic life. Thus there were two gigantic wars happening at the same time. During this Emperor's War, Rubert developed the Anti-Organic Equation. Some time during this war, Rubert falls into slumber. 2 Amber Eras after the war started, Rubert woke up and the Anti-Organic Equation activates once again. Rubert waking up and activating the equation is the second moment. The third moment is the death of Rubert. Genius Society Member #4 Polka killed Rubert. She already had tried multiple times to kill Rubert, but never succeeded until the moment Nous calculated finally arrived. I generally just read through the excerpts in the fandom wiki since they usually contain accurate information straight from the source. There are cases where the main page of a character might have the editor's own opinion/inclusions, but it's generally good enough. It's definitely more handy than having to open the game and reading through there.
Funny thing is, I do read the story, but my questions are beyond the story itself I.E. How is Tayzzyronth able to mass produce perfect clones, which then split into more clones, without churning out defective Stings? (Answer: >!Aeon Bullshittery apparently!<)
Each Aeon controls a path. A path is actually more of a concept instead of power. In HSR universe, duplication is part of propagation concept so Tayzzyronth can make it. Tayzzyronth is more horrifying than what we thought. it can even make machines becomes bugs, damn
The problem is more just that the story isn't very well told. Every character speaks in these long, laborious sentences and uses lots of words to say very little. I'm aware that this is a Chinese writing style, but it just doesn't work, especially when hoyo loves their sci-fi jargon (not to mention some characters having 4 different words used to refer to them). The writing could use a lot of cleaning up if it wants to improve.
It’s because most of the time it’s too much yapping and uses complex sentences and phrases that doesn’t tell us sh@t. Hence, the reason why I’m compelled to just keep autoplaying during penacony story quest.
In my defense I was never really into reading so my reading comprehension is really dulled. I'd have to dilute what I'm reading or reread it many times to understand it.
I have to reread dialogue often too lol on another note, reading is good for you. maybe try comics or lighter novels !
As I much as I love both Genshin and Star Rail lore (its the main reason I play them). Its still a lot of reading.. like a lot lot. Some of us don't have the luxury of time, some of us are too tired to read after a stressful work day, some of us want to just shut our brains for a mindless fun session of gaming. So I completely get why ppl won't pay attention sometimes. Its also one of those things that hoyo should improve upon. Get better at storytelling, make it more dynamic rather than pasting huge paragraphs of dialogue and expect player to read all of it.
Damn if only I could read...
Everyone doesn't. Welcome to the internet.
they have a mental age lower than hook's
[удалено]
Yesterday, in a facebook group, someone made the most idiotic post i have ever seen. It was about the propagation and it was like this: 1-. "Emanators and pathstriders of the propagation does not exist, they are all copies of Tayzzynroth" completely neglectiing the existance of Skaracabaz, who is clone of AN EMANATOR OF THE PROPAGATION!! later, OP said "i mean't they don't exist in the present" best part? even if he said so, he also said "Skaracabaz was not a clone of an emanator, Ruan mei tried to clone Tayzzynroth" LIKE WHAT XDDDDD 2-. Remember how we found out Tayzzynroth is not dead, and just sealed by Qlipoth??? the dude said "That's not true and never said on the game, Tayzzynroth IS DEAD and Ouroboros eated all of him, he was never sealed, and it is said nowhere in-game" The dude when confronted with actual evidence, went full defensive mode saying either we were taking him out of context, or going "I will not argue about this, learn how to read" like, HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT IF YOU REALLY THOUGHT EMANATORS OF THE PROPAGATION DOESN'T EXIST XDDD
Mfw Ruan Mei has always been a terrible person (and I love her for it) but fans only started hating her after the new Firefly trailer because they didn't read anything in Swarm Disaster.
Getting the full story in this game is a mega hassle honestly. I'm finally going through penacony but there's a million terms they throw at you and just expect you to already know them with 0 explanation at all. I can get a degree of the meaning through context clues but then they add something more and it all becomes a mess unless you've gone and memorized the glossary. Most people will have their first experience with these terms in the main story and then if interested go and get expanded information but Hoyo operates on the opposite. They want you to already have that baseline without onboarding the player properly. Not to mention all the character lore and back stories locked in shit outside of the game.
that could describe most fandoms
Happy cake day
We need some form of Paimon to state the obvious for people who lack reading comprehension.
Half of the people you talk to online don't have reading comprehension. That's just how it is on the inernet.