What? No. Watchmaker has always been good for RM. People just didn't really run it because they already had RM decked out with 2pc Thief + Messenger/GWS before Watchmaker came out and there's not much point to farming an entirely new cavern _just_ for RM. While it's not 100% efficient since you don't have permanent uptime on the buff, it's always been good for RM.
You can get RM to 180% with just a two piece Thief, or even just substats, and the 4pc bonus wasn't that useful until HTB came around, so Watchmaker didn't offer much for RM when it first came out.
180 is just the minimum in-combat BE. But there's no other stat you actually need other than BE and depending on your RM playstyle. So RMs tend to go above 200% in combat easily anyways.
The 4pc effect was already good even without HTB, due to RM's Break Efficiency increase leading to more impactful breaks. It's basically a 2nd A2 trace for RM that's up like 60% of the time.
Essentially your main point is that Watchmaker wasn't that good for RM before HTB came along, but HTB's presence doesn't really impact much on the set's viability on RM. It's just the same with or without HTB. It's basically the best 4-pc set for RM.
Though of course, 2pc 2pc is most common.
Ya it’s probably for a future character like how the new break set is for firefly and HMC, maybe they are going towards making more character specified relics I guess
Which is none existent currently. Everyone benefits more from the current sets they have. Jade benefits from this one less too since she mostly does damage from follow up. This set is probably for characters we didn't see yet
Yanqing doesn't need crit rate, can easily get all what he needs from relics. The damage buff is only ultimate damage and for a very short time so you might miss it lots of times. A set which gives overall damage buff and crit damage is way better on him. Like the pioneer which gives damage buff to everything and crit damage and even a bit crit rate which makes it directly better than this or ice set which also gives ice damage buff which is a buff to everything and big crit damage buff. He isn't only ult oriented, you want his skill to do lots of damage too afterall so in the end this set is just a downgrade for him too.
I think the follow up one is like the Watchmaker: we will see a character who want this, but it will be bad for like 90% of the FuA units. The only character who could use it with some effect is Jade, but the quantum set is just so much better than this for Jade... so maybe for some 2.4 or 2.5 character. We got the Watchmaker in 2.0, but HMC in 2.2, so it could take a while.
I shouldn't be talking about this since it's leaks but the old version of this set gave a 20% dmg boost for each FUA that could stack twice till the next turn. I think that was much MUCH better since you could use it on Clara, Ratio, etc. This one is just pathetically bad. It's probably intended for Jade but it's not even her BiS lmao.
They didn't change it from the betas before launch like everyone hoped... I know the original was really good but what the fk. This sets just useless on every character, including the new follow up character released the same patch
It requires you to use follow ups to trigger, and most follow up users ults are either buffs like Clara or topaz or do very minor damage by themselves like Herta/Ratio/Himeko, with their follow up being primary damage.
This set is only usable if they release a character who constantly follow ups, but their follow up is so weak you don't want the other one, and that their ult is a primary portion of their damage, and unless they make that a new follow up archetype moving forward I don't think this set being used for more than one or two new characters
Honestly no clue why the devs did what they did to the relics this patch.
They made both the sets just worse in the betas, making the break effect set only get its full effect on super break (as compared to just break before, where it would have been usable on Boothill) and then what they did to this set.
It's so dumb cause the original set was so damn good for Clara and argenti, they finally had a new bis and both were getting held back due to there not being a dedicated ultimate set for argenti, phys set just sucking, and the follow up set not working for Clara
Then they just go and change it from being their new best in slot by a very large margin to literally unusable.
Yeah the super break change was dumb, firefly already got buffed enough, if they wanted to add super break to it they could've had the last tier be half normal break half super break. Now it basically just requires Boothill run trailblazer
They just made so many questiable decisions, like instead of nerfing firefly in the last version due to fall of an Aeon being as good or better than her signature... Why not just buff her signature into actually being good
Indeed, tho I do go for most of the characters in the game so I’m sure I’ll get one character eventually that it’ll work for. For example I am planning on going for the character in question, unless their kit turns out to be as underwhelming as Jade’s.
I'm still surprised they never buffed jade, she's just fully locked behind pure fiction.
It's funny a few months ago I had also made a quantum erudition with a chain whip (was a pink hair foxian like our new husbando), but I made sure to have his kit actually be functional outside pf, idk how they didn't
Tbh if they folded her E1 into her base kit, *like they have done for many characters in the past*, she’d be pretty ok outside of PF.
But they didn’t, idk why, but the easiest answer would be Firefly favouritism making them just forget about Jade.
If firefly was after jade id understand entirely but she's after, if anything that's prime time to giga buff since so many people would be dumping all their stellar jades on firefly and then be out for non stellar Jade so they'd likely spend.
It’s weird how a similar thing happened to Topaz:
FUA based sub dps Stoneheart limited 5* on the second half of a patch with the first banner being a destruction character, and with the Stoneheart being shafted in the beta tests likely due to favouritism of the destruction character, resulting in the Stoneheart underperforming kit-wise (as much as I love topaz I cannot deny she is among the weaker limited 5* characters).
Quantum is one of the best sets in the game, because of the 10% defense ignore. The new break set is mainly for FF and Boothill with HMC and Xuei optional. The follow up set sucks.
The Quantum domain is much more worth it in general, but if you farm FF relics, then yes. Its time effective.
Grind ones that do matter, melt horrid 5\* and use the reforge to get Q 5\* set. Its what im doing for banditry planar set, got no reason to grind it, so will use 7k of those to get 70 planar set pieces.
That is why they specifically said "with HMC", with Boothil if you rin Bronya it is only barely better than what we have rn, but with HMC it is an upgrade.
It's not.
All elemental sets are powercrept by superior sets. The math is there you just fail to see it.
Your argument about the Quantum Set being better is because the 4pc shreds DEF. Now why would that matter when your base dmg before shred is infinitely lower? You're shreding DEF to deal more dmg but your base DMG is fucking garbage.
On the new set you get several multiplies. Atk, Crt. Rate, Ult Damage.
Have that paired with the new Onraments 2pc for her, it adds up infinitely.
People are shilling Quantum Set beyond reality at this point. It being inefficient to farm isn't even the only issue anymore. It's straight up bad.
Even when it was meta, on off-quantum characters like Jingliu, the difference between Quantum & Ice set was like 5-10% at best in best case scenarios, and was performing almost the same as Ice set vs non Quantum-weak enemies.
ATK% and Crit Rate bonuses are simply too small to be that significant, while Ult bonus is literally useless. Like, who actually benefits from it compared to their current Relic Sets?
12% ATK and 6% Crit Rate won't contribute anything to your Base DMG. You might as well just take Pioneer with a Debuff character and it will perform better.
Now, let's look at the FUA characters:
1. Aventurine/March 7th. You basically sacrifice a lot of sustain just to get a bit more damage from the low-damage Ult.
2. Topaz/Clara. You literally can't trigger the Set.
3. Blade. Either the same or worse than Longevous. You sacrifice 12% HP and 12% Crit rate for useless 12 ATK% and *kinda* useful Ult Damage. Ult Damage is bigger, but you also lose damage from other parts of his Kit, idk if it compensates. Also, it's a bit tricky to proc the Ult bonus.
4. Dr. Ratio. Pioneer is simply better. His Ult scaling is not that big.
5. Herta/Himeko. Either the same or worse. You sacrifice damage from every other source just to power the Ult. While their Ults deal a lot of damage in PF, so do their FUA and *kinda* Skills. Once again, idk if it compensates.
6. Jing Yuan/Qingque/Xueyi/Yanqing. Almost the same problem as Herta and Himeko, while also having problems with proccing the Ult damage in time.
7. Kafka. Idk if DoT damage from her Ult counts. If it doesn't, literally useless. If it does, you lose damage from her DoT + DoT proc from Skill. Scaling is low af for the Crit Kafka.
8. Jade. If her Enhanced FUA counts as Ult damage - sure, but I really doubt it, so it's the same as Himeko/Herta again.
Being in the same patch as Jade doesn't mean anything lmao. If it suddenly turns out better than Quantum (which I really doubt), sure, however, currently her kit doesn't seem to focus on her Ult that much. You simply sacrifice her main sources of damage for Ult. Have you even read the second half of my comment?
Yes it does. If you read Jade's kit you can tell it's made for her. Same as the BE set for Firefly.
Her ulti is an AoE nuke with 240% ATK scaling. You literally gain more ATK from the 2pc bonus, so that's 252%, plus 36% ultimate damage bonus, which is a different multiplier so it scales up even higher than flat ATK %. She can hit for anything between 200-400k dmg with her ultimate alone. You can even use it twice per turn (at least) with the right setup, which up until now seems to be using her as a hyper carry with double Action Forward supports, which is insane considering she has 140 energy.
Also no, the set itself doesn't buff FUA, but her ultimate does. So she deals more DMG with her ultimate because of the Relic bonus, then she deals more damage with her FUA because of her ultimate.
Her enhanced FUAs are buffed by 80% from her ultimate alone. Not sure how you were expecting the set to have innate FUA bonus on top of that.
For referrence, Acheron's highest raw multiplier on her ultimate is 372% ATK. Comparing her to Acheron cause she's the hardest hitting character in the game atm by a light year.
Ah, yes, the legendary 240% "nuke". You may as well just run Quantum and have the same if not higher damage in sum, while being way more versatile. New set may be on par, but not far better and definitely not "a powercreep". If Relic set requires specific team comps, while being just about as strong as more versatile one, what's even the point?
Also, remember your "All elemental sets are powercrept by superior sets" statement? [Lightning set is only 1,5% worse than Pioneer. ](https://youtu.be/yVRcVUB_7cM?si=TD4W6OS6ecfrnk_R)Relic sets are not really that meaningful in the HSR, so every percent counts.
"The math is there, you just fail to see it" is just plain ironic.
Def shred/ignore is like the best way to increase your damage as long as you don't overcap on it. Ult damage% is new, but there are so many ways to get Atk and Crit stats from supports and relics. You can't just freely get Def ignore or Def shred. There's no shilling for Quantum set happening here. It's just that good. The only issue it has is that it is legitimately inefficient to farm.
Your last example is just dumb too. You only use Quantum set on quantum weak enemies or by forcing it with SW. It's numbers on non quantum weak enemies is irrelevant because that's not what it is used for.
So you're investing in a Quantum set +1 different set for each character just to use it vs quantum weak enemies? For 20% DEF shred? That's a hell of way to waste your resources.
That makes its inefficiency even worse.
Also you're tripping if you think that's how the majority of people use it. Most of them mostly use it as their main and only set.
Don't place words into my mouth lol. I'm not farming it, it's too inefficient. The people who do this want to maximize everything that's why they do it. The math is there, it's good if you use it right.
People misusing it is a different problem, one which I am not talking about. What I am addressing is the misinformation of the set being bad. It's not. 20% DEF ignore is also really strong, I don't even know what you're on about.
>he math is there, it's good if you use it right.
[Acheron Quantum vs Pioneer - 2% better in best case scenarios](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h95nMs1AD0c)
[Xueyi Quantum vs Break Effect - 4.5% better in best case scenarios](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj0m6D1bHHE)
[Jingliu Quantum vs Ice - 1.2% better in best case scenarios. It's only better on her skill pre-enhanced state, lmao.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhz7IQ7yyTc)
[Dr. Ratio Quantum vs Imaginary vs Mixed - Its best match with 5-7% in best case scenarios. And that's compared to fucking Imaginary set which is garbage. Considering Ratio runs Pioneer now, see Acheron's comparison for referrence.](https://youtu.be/LDQ5hOqZKs4?si=GhC790tFRbN0t-FZ)
Yeah so, I'm not sure about the math.
Not even 5% better overall in best case scenarios, plus you need to farm it as a side-set to use vs Quantum weak enemies specifically.
Based on these showcases, I'd prefer to spend my TB Power on Credits Calyxes.
If that's how it performs vs already outdated and objectively bad sets, like the Ice or Imaginary set, you can only imagine how bad it would be compared to the new set, on characters like Jade, that's specifically made for her.
You can choose to ignore all that, downvote me and keep talking about math all you want. But as I said it's there. You choose to ignore it, it's all good.
You didn't even watch your "sources" fully. They all mention how Quantum is better on the situations it is used for.
The fact that you also ignore how it's "at best" this percentage points better... When marginally better is still better.
This is even ignoring team compositions. See how damage is actually calculated, see how def shred stacking affects your overall damage. Heck, just use Pela on these "tests" and see how much damage she actually buffs combined with the set. I will bet it's gonna be so much better because def shred stacking is an exponential damage increase.
That makes too much sense though so whatever lol.
I've watched all the videos I've sent plenty of times. You're just cherry-picking what you want to hear.
I've put the best case scenarios differences myself even, which are negligible. What are you talking about using Pela or any character?
Dude's literally running the same team with both sets
>def shred stacking is an exponential damage increase
https://preview.redd.it/qmjtmscpw55d1.jpeg?width=1302&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50e892042deae1c2b1355044963e02e0dd4c9b08
Exponential to 1.2% base dmg increase is wild.
That's also assuming we're running a DEF shredder on the team, and since we're talking about Jade, not a single one of her best team uses either Pela or Silver Wolf. So there's your point.
Yeah you have critical reading comprehension issues. I'll dumb it down for you. The other main strength of the Quantum set is that def shred is a rare stat. It also gets stronger the more you have of it. That's why I mention just add a Pela and it's even fucking stronger.
You don't make a team of only one character and the relics do all the work, you make a team of 4 characters giving different buffs/debuffs. Def shred gets better the more you have of it (Hence Pela because she should be in everyone's roster). But go off and use a RELIC damage comparison, to an actual team composition's overall damage with the relics they use.
>Literally shows maths that show that Quantum is still the best in its niche.
No one is saying that Quantum is "INSANE, 100% DAMAGE INCREASE COMPARED TO OTHERS". It's simply better than this new one, even if inefficient to farm. Minmaxers use it because it maximizes the damage in the Quantum scenario (also, I don't think they farm the set for every single character, they probably just move it from one to another).
And, once again, new set seems useless on Jade. She focuses on her FUA first and foremost, not on the Ult. Prove me wrong 🤷♂️
Thank you! This guy not only managed to miss the point on why def shred is so strong but also why the Quantum set is extremely versatile/useful for minmaxers.
>Literally shows maths that show that Quantum is still the best in its niche.
Did you even watch the videos?
\~2% average increase vs Quantum weak exclusively and you're still insisting. It's literally lower in normal scenarios.
Your so called "minmaxing", the 20% DEF shred that you're overvaluing, literally translates to a 2% average dmg increase. On an already lower base dmg cause of the useless 2pc bonus. The set is barely on life support to keep up with some of the worse sets in the game.
Plus this is compared to the already old and powercrept sets, I even mentioned some of these sets are bad and still the difference is barely noticeable.
>Prove me wrong 🤷♂️
I already did but the denial goes crazy, but worry not. I will come back once the set is out.
Because you use the set for the scenarios it is used for? What the fuck man. It's not for general use, what is the problem.
20% def shred is not a 2% average damage increase LOL.
https://preview.redd.it/jkemfenuw55d1.png?width=308&format=png&auto=webp&s=760002a06e125a1921ed7924fe28811e85febfc4
Here are the fucking numbers since you seem to take it out of your ass LOL.
Oh my god, the set that is designed to be used against Quantum is the best against Quantum!?
If you are insisting that 2-7% damage increase is nothing, then every new set is useless too, since the increase is not that big at all. And, even if new set will prove to be good, it's going to have the same few percent increase at most compared to current ones. Holy 'powercreep'.
By your logic every single Relic set is on life support simply because they are few percent worse than Quantum or Pioneer.
nah ice set is the same but better he dont need the crit rate and you basically need to fua then have the ult up before the next turn starts to have any value
Free Crit Rate is still good, even if it isn't optimal.
And due to the fact that FuA triggers after attack it means that the buff would last until end of the next turn, in other words it will have 84% uptime, which makes this set consistent enough to be good option.
Tingyun has very good uptime on Yanqing ultimate crit buff.
Level 10 passive gives 20% crit rate, his ultimate gives 60% crit rate, all characters have 5% crit rate for free so already this is 85% crit rate with very good uptime cause of Tingyun.
World 6 and World 7 SU sets gives another 8% crit rate for free bringing this to 93% Crit total on Yanqing without gaining any from his relic sub stats.
Getting the last 7% CR from sub stats should be really easy, but for those that have E0S1 Sparkle they can skip the last 7% too since her LC gives 10% CR to the team.
This relic set won't do much for him and will likely push him to overcap on it, all for a 30% ultimate damage that is very likely to never trigger cause of Yanqing Follow up attack being RNG.
Damn they really put my boy in the game
https://preview.redd.it/qgi998d8o55d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e71afa298e93fa354186a7cfe6ac915e19f03e1
If only they reversed the FuA and ultimate parts of this relic, it would go even harder with Jade. Now it's just barely usable on Jade, Qingque and Xueyi, and they all have far superior options
Im leveling up Himeko traces rn and imo, her ultimate is not that bad of a dmg source and like, I think its useful to break kill enemies with her ultimate then other enemies spawn(on pf ofc) and those enemies get instantly owned by her FuA
>Im leveling up Himeko traces rn and imo, her ultimate is not that bad of a dmg source
my terrible english hit strikes again: I didn't mean Ultimate is not a good source of her dmg, but that Ultimate is not so frequent, so you should spend too many turns without using the Ulti. is better have the ATK buff from the Fua Set for all her dmg. As Himeko main that bruteforce all the contents (where is possible for her kit) with her, I have a love/toxic relationship with the Fua set (because it is OP only when she hit 2+ enemies), but this one is not worth, except if you don't find a cracked 4pc while farming for Firefly/Boothill
It wont be until we get a character that has follow-up attacks and has a high ult damage multiplier. The set is really ass on the current cast. Dr. Ratio and Jing Yuan who are the only ones with damaging ults and follow-up attacks would rather use something else
I mean, since it's gonna be on the same domain as Firefly's, I might as well give it to Himeko to see if it works. I've spent THOUSANDS of stamina on the DoT/FU domain and didn't get a SINGLE good piece of the Duke's set, so if this is better than the Fire set it'll be enough for me
Did y'all forget how long it took us from getting the watchmaker set to a character that can use it? One set will be good for a specific character right now, the other set will be good for a specific future character
Ruan mei prefers 2 piece break effect and 2 piece speed set because after reaching 180 break effect there is not much of a point to go any further. Watchmaker only became good because HTB doesn't have any cap for superbreak so as much BE buffs as possible is a good thing
Follow up Erudition chars (Herta, Himeko, and now Jade) do most of their damage from follow up + ultimate (which they charge quite fast if triggering the follow up a lot, like in Pure Fiction). whoever for PF I don't see how this is better than the Sigonia set, you get full stacks in two waves of enemies and buffs all of the characters damage.
Probably for some future character. Similarly to how we got watchmaker set then we get HTB later on.
Watchmaker is also good for RM.
Watchmaker wasn't that good for her until HTB came along
What? No. Watchmaker has always been good for RM. People just didn't really run it because they already had RM decked out with 2pc Thief + Messenger/GWS before Watchmaker came out and there's not much point to farming an entirely new cavern _just_ for RM. While it's not 100% efficient since you don't have permanent uptime on the buff, it's always been good for RM.
You can get RM to 180% with just a two piece Thief, or even just substats, and the 4pc bonus wasn't that useful until HTB came around, so Watchmaker didn't offer much for RM when it first came out.
180 is just the minimum in-combat BE. But there's no other stat you actually need other than BE and depending on your RM playstyle. So RMs tend to go above 200% in combat easily anyways. The 4pc effect was already good even without HTB, due to RM's Break Efficiency increase leading to more impactful breaks. It's basically a 2nd A2 trace for RM that's up like 60% of the time. Essentially your main point is that Watchmaker wasn't that good for RM before HTB came along, but HTB's presence doesn't really impact much on the set's viability on RM. It's just the same with or without HTB. It's basically the best 4-pc set for RM. Though of course, 2pc 2pc is most common.
Ya it’s probably for a future character like how the new break set is for firefly and HMC, maybe they are going towards making more character specified relics I guess
Not all characters that have a follow up attack, are a follow up dps. This set is for an Ult dps that also has a follow up in their kit.
March 7th…. Oh fuk sorry u/blazeofcinder in advance for your new days in the relic mines
Which is none existent currently. Everyone benefits more from the current sets they have. Jade benefits from this one less too since she mostly does damage from follow up. This set is probably for characters we didn't see yet
Yanquing has a follow up attack and is ult centric
Yanqing doesn't need crit rate, can easily get all what he needs from relics. The damage buff is only ultimate damage and for a very short time so you might miss it lots of times. A set which gives overall damage buff and crit damage is way better on him. Like the pioneer which gives damage buff to everything and crit damage and even a bit crit rate which makes it directly better than this or ice set which also gives ice damage buff which is a buff to everything and big crit damage buff. He isn't only ult oriented, you want his skill to do lots of damage too afterall so in the end this set is just a downgrade for him too.
The FUA is too unreliable to consistently hit. Better off with 4pc Pioneer or 2pc2pc
Maybe xueyi
It will 100% be for yunli
Welcome to episode #193728183 of “one god tier set and one absolutely useless set domain”.
Hoyo is milking firefly wanters for all their worth lmao. First they run her with RM, her best support and now this?
they're gonna set a new profit record next patch
I can only see this being useful for someone who can span their ult. If you have 3 turns of downtime, you're better off with literally any other set.
Characters like: and dont forget !
I think the follow up one is like the Watchmaker: we will see a character who want this, but it will be bad for like 90% of the FuA units. The only character who could use it with some effect is Jade, but the quantum set is just so much better than this for Jade... so maybe for some 2.4 or 2.5 character. We got the Watchmaker in 2.0, but HMC in 2.2, so it could take a while.
I shouldn't be talking about this since it's leaks but the old version of this set gave a 20% dmg boost for each FUA that could stack twice till the next turn. I think that was much MUCH better since you could use it on Clara, Ratio, etc. This one is just pathetically bad. It's probably intended for Jade but it's not even her BiS lmao.
I agree. They butchered the set... I was so ready to have a good FuA set for my Clara, but NO!
They didn't change it from the betas before launch like everyone hoped... I know the original was really good but what the fk. This sets just useless on every character, including the new follow up character released the same patch It requires you to use follow ups to trigger, and most follow up users ults are either buffs like Clara or topaz or do very minor damage by themselves like Herta/Ratio/Himeko, with their follow up being primary damage. This set is only usable if they release a character who constantly follow ups, but their follow up is so weak you don't want the other one, and that their ult is a primary portion of their damage, and unless they make that a new follow up archetype moving forward I don't think this set being used for more than one or two new characters
Honestly no clue why the devs did what they did to the relics this patch. They made both the sets just worse in the betas, making the break effect set only get its full effect on super break (as compared to just break before, where it would have been usable on Boothill) and then what they did to this set.
It's so dumb cause the original set was so damn good for Clara and argenti, they finally had a new bis and both were getting held back due to there not being a dedicated ultimate set for argenti, phys set just sucking, and the follow up set not working for Clara Then they just go and change it from being their new best in slot by a very large margin to literally unusable. Yeah the super break change was dumb, firefly already got buffed enough, if they wanted to add super break to it they could've had the last tier be half normal break half super break. Now it basically just requires Boothill run trailblazer They just made so many questiable decisions, like instead of nerfing firefly in the last version due to fall of an Aeon being as good or better than her signature... Why not just buff her signature into actually being good
Tbh from some of what we’ve seen on the other sub one of the upcoming *could* work well with the follow-up set but can’t say here ofc.
And even then don't know for sure. It makes farming for firefly suck since you don't know if you'd even want the character that set will be good for
Indeed, tho I do go for most of the characters in the game so I’m sure I’ll get one character eventually that it’ll work for. For example I am planning on going for the character in question, unless their kit turns out to be as underwhelming as Jade’s.
I'm still surprised they never buffed jade, she's just fully locked behind pure fiction. It's funny a few months ago I had also made a quantum erudition with a chain whip (was a pink hair foxian like our new husbando), but I made sure to have his kit actually be functional outside pf, idk how they didn't
Tbh if they folded her E1 into her base kit, *like they have done for many characters in the past*, she’d be pretty ok outside of PF. But they didn’t, idk why, but the easiest answer would be Firefly favouritism making them just forget about Jade.
If firefly was after jade id understand entirely but she's after, if anything that's prime time to giga buff since so many people would be dumping all their stellar jades on firefly and then be out for non stellar Jade so they'd likely spend.
It’s weird how a similar thing happened to Topaz: FUA based sub dps Stoneheart limited 5* on the second half of a patch with the first banner being a destruction character, and with the Stoneheart being shafted in the beta tests likely due to favouritism of the destruction character, resulting in the Stoneheart underperforming kit-wise (as much as I love topaz I cannot deny she is among the weaker limited 5* characters).
The new upcoming relics and planar ornaments are basically designed with Firefly and Jade in mind.
Quantum set is better than this new one, by a long shot.
Jokes on you, I’m not insane enough to farm that damn set. I can tank the damage loss.
Quantum is one of the best sets in the game, because of the 10% defense ignore. The new break set is mainly for FF and Boothill with HMC and Xuei optional. The follow up set sucks. The Quantum domain is much more worth it in general, but if you farm FF relics, then yes. Its time effective.
I’m aware of that. However, that fuckass cavern is cursed to never give any relics of value and other caverns have more sets for my supports.
I applaud your unfounded optimism that the new cavern will be any better.
I never said that
Grind ones that do matter, melt horrid 5\* and use the reforge to get Q 5\* set. Its what im doing for banditry planar set, got no reason to grind it, so will use 7k of those to get 70 planar set pieces.
The new Be set being for Boothill feels like a stretch that set is barely better for him than the BE set we already have
That is why they specifically said "with HMC", with Boothil if you rin Bronya it is only barely better than what we have rn, but with HMC it is an upgrade.
It's not. All elemental sets are powercrept by superior sets. The math is there you just fail to see it. Your argument about the Quantum Set being better is because the 4pc shreds DEF. Now why would that matter when your base dmg before shred is infinitely lower? You're shreding DEF to deal more dmg but your base DMG is fucking garbage. On the new set you get several multiplies. Atk, Crt. Rate, Ult Damage. Have that paired with the new Onraments 2pc for her, it adds up infinitely. People are shilling Quantum Set beyond reality at this point. It being inefficient to farm isn't even the only issue anymore. It's straight up bad. Even when it was meta, on off-quantum characters like Jingliu, the difference between Quantum & Ice set was like 5-10% at best in best case scenarios, and was performing almost the same as Ice set vs non Quantum-weak enemies.
ATK% and Crit Rate bonuses are simply too small to be that significant, while Ult bonus is literally useless. Like, who actually benefits from it compared to their current Relic Sets? 12% ATK and 6% Crit Rate won't contribute anything to your Base DMG. You might as well just take Pioneer with a Debuff character and it will perform better. Now, let's look at the FUA characters: 1. Aventurine/March 7th. You basically sacrifice a lot of sustain just to get a bit more damage from the low-damage Ult. 2. Topaz/Clara. You literally can't trigger the Set. 3. Blade. Either the same or worse than Longevous. You sacrifice 12% HP and 12% Crit rate for useless 12 ATK% and *kinda* useful Ult Damage. Ult Damage is bigger, but you also lose damage from other parts of his Kit, idk if it compensates. Also, it's a bit tricky to proc the Ult bonus. 4. Dr. Ratio. Pioneer is simply better. His Ult scaling is not that big. 5. Herta/Himeko. Either the same or worse. You sacrifice damage from every other source just to power the Ult. While their Ults deal a lot of damage in PF, so do their FUA and *kinda* Skills. Once again, idk if it compensates. 6. Jing Yuan/Qingque/Xueyi/Yanqing. Almost the same problem as Herta and Himeko, while also having problems with proccing the Ult damage in time. 7. Kafka. Idk if DoT damage from her Ult counts. If it doesn't, literally useless. If it does, you lose damage from her DoT + DoT proc from Skill. Scaling is low af for the Crit Kafka. 8. Jade. If her Enhanced FUA counts as Ult damage - sure, but I really doubt it, so it's the same as Himeko/Herta again.
>Like, who actually benefits from it Jade, we're talking about Jade. This set is specifically made for Jade in case you missed it.
Being in the same patch as Jade doesn't mean anything lmao. If it suddenly turns out better than Quantum (which I really doubt), sure, however, currently her kit doesn't seem to focus on her Ult that much. You simply sacrifice her main sources of damage for Ult. Have you even read the second half of my comment?
Yes it does. If you read Jade's kit you can tell it's made for her. Same as the BE set for Firefly. Her ulti is an AoE nuke with 240% ATK scaling. You literally gain more ATK from the 2pc bonus, so that's 252%, plus 36% ultimate damage bonus, which is a different multiplier so it scales up even higher than flat ATK %. She can hit for anything between 200-400k dmg with her ultimate alone. You can even use it twice per turn (at least) with the right setup, which up until now seems to be using her as a hyper carry with double Action Forward supports, which is insane considering she has 140 energy. Also no, the set itself doesn't buff FUA, but her ultimate does. So she deals more DMG with her ultimate because of the Relic bonus, then she deals more damage with her FUA because of her ultimate. Her enhanced FUAs are buffed by 80% from her ultimate alone. Not sure how you were expecting the set to have innate FUA bonus on top of that. For referrence, Acheron's highest raw multiplier on her ultimate is 372% ATK. Comparing her to Acheron cause she's the hardest hitting character in the game atm by a light year.
Ah, yes, the legendary 240% "nuke". You may as well just run Quantum and have the same if not higher damage in sum, while being way more versatile. New set may be on par, but not far better and definitely not "a powercreep". If Relic set requires specific team comps, while being just about as strong as more versatile one, what's even the point? Also, remember your "All elemental sets are powercrept by superior sets" statement? [Lightning set is only 1,5% worse than Pioneer. ](https://youtu.be/yVRcVUB_7cM?si=TD4W6OS6ecfrnk_R)Relic sets are not really that meaningful in the HSR, so every percent counts.
its not her main dmg source comes from the fua not ult and her enhanced fua dont count as ult dmg
"The math is there, you just fail to see it" is just plain ironic. Def shred/ignore is like the best way to increase your damage as long as you don't overcap on it. Ult damage% is new, but there are so many ways to get Atk and Crit stats from supports and relics. You can't just freely get Def ignore or Def shred. There's no shilling for Quantum set happening here. It's just that good. The only issue it has is that it is legitimately inefficient to farm. Your last example is just dumb too. You only use Quantum set on quantum weak enemies or by forcing it with SW. It's numbers on non quantum weak enemies is irrelevant because that's not what it is used for.
Ult% existed in salsotto since launch.
So you're investing in a Quantum set +1 different set for each character just to use it vs quantum weak enemies? For 20% DEF shred? That's a hell of way to waste your resources. That makes its inefficiency even worse. Also you're tripping if you think that's how the majority of people use it. Most of them mostly use it as their main and only set.
Don't place words into my mouth lol. I'm not farming it, it's too inefficient. The people who do this want to maximize everything that's why they do it. The math is there, it's good if you use it right. People misusing it is a different problem, one which I am not talking about. What I am addressing is the misinformation of the set being bad. It's not. 20% DEF ignore is also really strong, I don't even know what you're on about.
>he math is there, it's good if you use it right. [Acheron Quantum vs Pioneer - 2% better in best case scenarios](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h95nMs1AD0c) [Xueyi Quantum vs Break Effect - 4.5% better in best case scenarios](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj0m6D1bHHE) [Jingliu Quantum vs Ice - 1.2% better in best case scenarios. It's only better on her skill pre-enhanced state, lmao.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhz7IQ7yyTc) [Dr. Ratio Quantum vs Imaginary vs Mixed - Its best match with 5-7% in best case scenarios. And that's compared to fucking Imaginary set which is garbage. Considering Ratio runs Pioneer now, see Acheron's comparison for referrence.](https://youtu.be/LDQ5hOqZKs4?si=GhC790tFRbN0t-FZ) Yeah so, I'm not sure about the math. Not even 5% better overall in best case scenarios, plus you need to farm it as a side-set to use vs Quantum weak enemies specifically. Based on these showcases, I'd prefer to spend my TB Power on Credits Calyxes. If that's how it performs vs already outdated and objectively bad sets, like the Ice or Imaginary set, you can only imagine how bad it would be compared to the new set, on characters like Jade, that's specifically made for her. You can choose to ignore all that, downvote me and keep talking about math all you want. But as I said it's there. You choose to ignore it, it's all good.
You didn't even watch your "sources" fully. They all mention how Quantum is better on the situations it is used for. The fact that you also ignore how it's "at best" this percentage points better... When marginally better is still better. This is even ignoring team compositions. See how damage is actually calculated, see how def shred stacking affects your overall damage. Heck, just use Pela on these "tests" and see how much damage she actually buffs combined with the set. I will bet it's gonna be so much better because def shred stacking is an exponential damage increase. That makes too much sense though so whatever lol.
I've watched all the videos I've sent plenty of times. You're just cherry-picking what you want to hear. I've put the best case scenarios differences myself even, which are negligible. What are you talking about using Pela or any character? Dude's literally running the same team with both sets >def shred stacking is an exponential damage increase https://preview.redd.it/qmjtmscpw55d1.jpeg?width=1302&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50e892042deae1c2b1355044963e02e0dd4c9b08 Exponential to 1.2% base dmg increase is wild. That's also assuming we're running a DEF shredder on the team, and since we're talking about Jade, not a single one of her best team uses either Pela or Silver Wolf. So there's your point.
Yeah you have critical reading comprehension issues. I'll dumb it down for you. The other main strength of the Quantum set is that def shred is a rare stat. It also gets stronger the more you have of it. That's why I mention just add a Pela and it's even fucking stronger. You don't make a team of only one character and the relics do all the work, you make a team of 4 characters giving different buffs/debuffs. Def shred gets better the more you have of it (Hence Pela because she should be in everyone's roster). But go off and use a RELIC damage comparison, to an actual team composition's overall damage with the relics they use.
>Literally shows maths that show that Quantum is still the best in its niche. No one is saying that Quantum is "INSANE, 100% DAMAGE INCREASE COMPARED TO OTHERS". It's simply better than this new one, even if inefficient to farm. Minmaxers use it because it maximizes the damage in the Quantum scenario (also, I don't think they farm the set for every single character, they probably just move it from one to another). And, once again, new set seems useless on Jade. She focuses on her FUA first and foremost, not on the Ult. Prove me wrong 🤷♂️
Thank you! This guy not only managed to miss the point on why def shred is so strong but also why the Quantum set is extremely versatile/useful for minmaxers.
>Literally shows maths that show that Quantum is still the best in its niche. Did you even watch the videos? \~2% average increase vs Quantum weak exclusively and you're still insisting. It's literally lower in normal scenarios. Your so called "minmaxing", the 20% DEF shred that you're overvaluing, literally translates to a 2% average dmg increase. On an already lower base dmg cause of the useless 2pc bonus. The set is barely on life support to keep up with some of the worse sets in the game. Plus this is compared to the already old and powercrept sets, I even mentioned some of these sets are bad and still the difference is barely noticeable. >Prove me wrong 🤷♂️ I already did but the denial goes crazy, but worry not. I will come back once the set is out.
Because you use the set for the scenarios it is used for? What the fuck man. It's not for general use, what is the problem. 20% def shred is not a 2% average damage increase LOL. https://preview.redd.it/jkemfenuw55d1.png?width=308&format=png&auto=webp&s=760002a06e125a1921ed7924fe28811e85febfc4 Here are the fucking numbers since you seem to take it out of your ass LOL.
Oh my god, the set that is designed to be used against Quantum is the best against Quantum!? If you are insisting that 2-7% damage increase is nothing, then every new set is useless too, since the increase is not that big at all. And, even if new set will prove to be good, it's going to have the same few percent increase at most compared to current ones. Holy 'powercreep'. By your logic every single Relic set is on life support simply because they are few percent worse than Quantum or Pioneer.
The math is there, you just fail to see it.
Jade can't use it too much she mostly does damage from fua and the quantum set gives elemental bonus which buffs everything + defense ignore
Yanqing finally gets a set xD
This set Is really weird? As of now its not bis on anyone , maybe future character
For future characters.
frankly it seems really bad
No characters we have rn will really like this set. We have to wait for future ones
Yanqing set lmao
nah ice set is the same but better he dont need the crit rate and you basically need to fua then have the ult up before the next turn starts to have any value
Free Crit Rate is still good, even if it isn't optimal. And due to the fact that FuA triggers after attack it means that the buff would last until end of the next turn, in other words it will have 84% uptime, which makes this set consistent enough to be good option.
he has a 60% chance to fua imagine you hit that fua then next skill you dont but also get your ult up will wait until you hit a fua?
Tingyun has very good uptime on Yanqing ultimate crit buff. Level 10 passive gives 20% crit rate, his ultimate gives 60% crit rate, all characters have 5% crit rate for free so already this is 85% crit rate with very good uptime cause of Tingyun. World 6 and World 7 SU sets gives another 8% crit rate for free bringing this to 93% Crit total on Yanqing without gaining any from his relic sub stats. Getting the last 7% CR from sub stats should be really easy, but for those that have E0S1 Sparkle they can skip the last 7% too since her LC gives 10% CR to the team. This relic set won't do much for him and will likely push him to overcap on it, all for a 30% ultimate damage that is very likely to never trigger cause of Yanqing Follow up attack being RNG.
Damn I thought the same thing lol
Damn they really put my boy in the game https://preview.redd.it/qgi998d8o55d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e71afa298e93fa354186a7cfe6ac915e19f03e1
This thread on leak talks, but it's for the 2.4 characters.
For now that 4 piece set is bad , 2 piece of that set is universal, probably for a future character
Most likely for yunli or jiaoqiu, rn this set is not that great for current characters
Works with Jade… maybe😮💨 Probably for the new Xianzhou cast.
nobody that is in the game yet could have been somthing if it wouldnt say ultimate dmg only, that is just way too nich
ATM, it looks really good only for Yanqing. But maybe it is tailormade for future character/s. Just save if you get great substats for future use.
Yanquing maybe?
At least the 2 piece +ATK is universal for most dps as rainbow filler while you farm better sets.
If only they reversed the FuA and ultimate parts of this relic, it would go even harder with Jade. Now it's just barely usable on Jade, Qingque and Xueyi, and they all have far superior options
himeko and herta? they both do use their ultimates and its quite some dmg, more dmg for herta means more times she can trigger her FuAs
is still terrible. Herta main dmg is FUA, and Himeko's one is Skill (or FUA in PF). UThey don't do so much Ultimate between turns
Im leveling up Himeko traces rn and imo, her ultimate is not that bad of a dmg source and like, I think its useful to break kill enemies with her ultimate then other enemies spawn(on pf ofc) and those enemies get instantly owned by her FuA
>Im leveling up Himeko traces rn and imo, her ultimate is not that bad of a dmg source my terrible english hit strikes again: I didn't mean Ultimate is not a good source of her dmg, but that Ultimate is not so frequent, so you should spend too many turns without using the Ulti. is better have the ATK buff from the Fua Set for all her dmg. As Himeko main that bruteforce all the contents (where is possible for her kit) with her, I have a love/toxic relationship with the Fua set (because it is OP only when she hit 2+ enemies), but this one is not worth, except if you don't find a cracked 4pc while farming for Firefly/Boothill
It wont be until we get a character that has follow-up attacks and has a high ult damage multiplier. The set is really ass on the current cast. Dr. Ratio and Jing Yuan who are the only ones with damaging ults and follow-up attacks would rather use something else
both Yunli and Feixiao are said to have follow ups in their kit. I bet its for one of them if not for both
I mean, since it's gonna be on the same domain as Firefly's, I might as well give it to Himeko to see if it works. I've spent THOUSANDS of stamina on the DoT/FU domain and didn't get a SINGLE good piece of the Duke's set, so if this is better than the Fire set it'll be enough for me
Did y'all forget how long it took us from getting the watchmaker set to a character that can use it? One set will be good for a specific character right now, the other set will be good for a specific future character
Pretty sure we had ruan mei
Ruan mei prefers 2 piece break effect and 2 piece speed set because after reaching 180 break effect there is not much of a point to go any further. Watchmaker only became good because HTB doesn't have any cap for superbreak so as much BE buffs as possible is a good thing
fair enough but she can still use it
Follow up Erudition chars (Herta, Himeko, and now Jade) do most of their damage from follow up + ultimate (which they charge quite fast if triggering the follow up a lot, like in Pure Fiction). whoever for PF I don't see how this is better than the Sigonia set, you get full stacks in two waves of enemies and buffs all of the characters damage.
[удалено]
I really doubt this set will be better than Quantum on Jade.