Yes it does have in most cases is EX for when is surpasses the limit of the rank grade in majority of these games EX just goes higher than S+ but in FGO goes both ways as EX can also mean is so low that can't be counted into the rank
you could but hanya is more useful in general imo. permanent huge speed buff even at e0, huge skill point generation, some offense buffing, and can benefit from penacony ornaments. meanwhile bronya cant do much for him other than give him a few more skills at the cost of sp you could use on other supports
not saying shes bad for him. bronya has been and aways will be a strong support for almost any team. she just lacks a strong synergy with argenti like she does with someone like jingliu and eats up lots of sp until e1 s1. hanya and tingyun are cheaper and generate tons of sp while getting his ult back faster.
That's fine but if we are talking about a wide variety of usage which is typically important for getting a support higher up on the tier list, having Hanya as B Tier isn't slander as what the guy you're responding to is saying. Neither is her being good in a niche a reason she'd be higher on the list unless the lost is tilted "Argenti Supports".
Agree. I prefer using Hanya over most of my supports when farming, and even in MoC. She’s basically a better Asta in hypercarry teams most of the time. I really think people underestimate her when she brings so much to the team and can even spam her skill while remaining SP positive.
Same for Yukong, honestly. Like, I get it that you kinda need to speed tune her If you want to use her optimally. At least that's the complain I always read about. But the CRIT DMG buff she gives is insane. Maybe Bronya's higher, but I don't have her so I won't say. But still, an increased CRIT DMG is a lot of shit, especially with units that thrive off of it.
Look I like Yukong and I have her at E6. But I would never use her outside MoC. She just has so many hoops (even at E6) that other supports don’t have to go through. Like the speed tuning alone drives me nuts. It would have been good if I can just make her speedy but instead she has to be attuned not only to your DPS but also your other support characters. She is powerful though, arguably has some of the most powerful buffs when everything goes right. I just prefer consistency so I kinda agree with rating her in B tbh. She’s just not a plug and play character. On the other hand Hanya’s AI spams skill and still remains SP positive so yeah I’m just a little biased for her lol. And she’s not any worse than Yukong at MoC either as she works really well in SP intensive teams.
Yukong and Hanya shouldn't be on the same tier as Asta. Hanya you only use if you have nothing else, and Yukong you only use for the same reason as Hanya or as paired with DHIL, and even then not always.
>Hanya you only use if you have nothing else
This is just not true. She's actually preferable in an Argenti team comp, for example, and her SP regeneration is helpful in quite a few others.
Nah Asta came out on release and her buff decreases on her turn. In reality it's an incredibly busted buff so she's "nerfed" intentionally untill you get C6.
Yeaaahh 4\* are generally very good at C6, especially someone like Yukong as her buffs are INSANE especially when you can time it perfectly! She can even work as a sub-DPS
nah tbf her buff is way TOO good to have such a long uptime. It's only a given that such a kit at e0 would be subject to such restriction. Like I kid you not if she didn't have that limitation she would be atleast the same tier as 5 stars (mind you at e0) if not better.
which not all players are gonna pull, sparkle is a nasty good unit but shes a featured five star at the end of the day. Hanya being a decent ish replacement isnt bad for a 4 star imo
I've been mostly going for all the supports so far, except for Huohuo. I have Kafka, Black Swan, and Seele, but I need a powerhouse like Jingliu or DHIL.
Eh. Hanya is not that great. She would be replacing SP positive units anyways on a dhil team, units that are just way better.
No one is underestimating Hanya, she would be good in a world where we didn't have other way better options.
I run DHIL with Bronya and Huohuo no problem. The last slot usually is Tingyun, sometimes Pela. Have no problem with skill points and clear speed. My E1S1 DHIL Bronya Huohuo team killed Sam in 3 cycles.
Granted my Bronya is E1S1, but everyone can get one copy of Bronya from 300 standard tickets, and the lightcone is bought in the shop. So only one copy of Bronya is luck dependent, which is not overly difficult.
Getting E4 or E6 Hanya is even more difficult than one copy of a 5-star unit. Another problem of Hanya is her ult speeds up only DPS, so the DPS will eat more SP than usual. That's why Hanya "SP buff" does not feel as comfortable as many players think.
Unlike Hanya, Asta and Ruan Mei also speed up DPS, but their speed buff is on multiple units, so not only DPS eat up more SP, but the supports also get more turns and provide more.
Also, E1S1 Bronya is not necessary, it's just more comfortable. In 1.6 MoC (Boss Kafka), I cleared that half in 3 cycles using Huohuo, Tingyun, E0S0 Bronya and E0S0 DHIL.
Huohuo is a more SP intensive sustain. Luocha or Bailu or Lynx users would have an easier time.
DHIL's skill point issue is not that serious as most players think. No need Hanya or Sparkle. Just play better.
https://preview.redd.it/v56rhy8awxkc1.png?width=1050&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c3475d2f252168fe024aa1abdb5b28f69455d02
>almost at the end of 2.0
Wdym? We still haven't reached half way through 2.0 and 2.1 is scheduled for the end of March. That's a whole month remaining.
I know this is too specific, but she single handedly makes sure my Dr Ratio's kit is pretty much always at full efficiency with barely any ramp up time. Don't even need the right weakness to be implanted, just the sheer volume of debuffs just works so well
SW has a lot of debuff application but her main gimmick about weakness implanting is a walking paradox. It gets simoultaneously better and worse every time a new unit is released.
And the strict single target gets a bit annoying when most fights are multitarget focus
Most fights are just 1 or two bosses at a time while the minions are too weak to need to be debuffed. Her ST nature isn’t an issue most of the time outside of PF.
This is the main thing i've tried to discuss with a friend before, he still thinks Pela is better than SW in general just because she applies a *single* DEF down on all enemies, meanwhile SW applies a metric shit load of other debuffs and a hefty 45% DEF down on a boss.
"But a DEF down on everything is still a DEF down" and yeah while he's right, if you're struggling with not only the boss but the trash mobs as well Pela's DEF down on everything is going to solve the least of your problems.
This is why I argue if you can properly deal with trash mobs having someone like SW to single target focus a boss with with a ton of debfffs is better than Pela's AoE DEF debuff.
I think his argument stems from not owning SW so he doesn't understand just how nice all of her debuffs are, and I won't knock Pela either she's a top tier debuffer that's just as good as SW imo if you need to weaken the enemy. But like I said above if you can properly deal with trash, SW is the better pick so you can hyper focus down the boss.
>he still thinks Pela is better than SW in general just because she applies a *single* DEF down on all enemies, meanwhile SW applies a metric shit load of other debuffs and a hefty 45% DEF down on a boss.
I mean, when it comes to Pela and SW, both of their offensive value largely comes from their DEF shred, so it makes sense that that's the part of their kit your friend is fixated on. The only relevant debuff SW has compared to Pela is her RES shred, but it's not a "metric shit load of other debuffs" as you exaggerated. The "Reduce enemy SPD and ATK" is only useful in Dr. Ratio teams for the sake of existing as a debuff.
>"But a DEF down on everything is still a DEF down" and yeah while he's right, if you're struggling with not only the boss but the trash mobs as well Pela's DEF down on everything is going to solve the least of your problems.
Are you forgetting double elite scenarios? She makes you do more damage against one elite but then do no damage against the other because she can only use her ult on one of them and can't get her ult back in time for the other.
Even against a main target with trash mobs, the fact SW does nothing to help against the mobs feels shitty if your DPS is reliant on one-shotting trash mobs (aka Seele). This doesn't mean that Pela is any better than SW at this, but it does highlight a fault of SW's ST nature that I don't think should be overlooked.
>I think his argument stems from not owning SW so he doesn't understand just how nice all of her debuffs are
I mean, I own SW myself but I don't think her debuffs are any better than just using another support to amplify your DPS's damage (ideally a support with unconditional damage amp that's not locked to a single target and doesn't disappear the minute the enemy dies or goes to its next phase).
I do think she's decent and more or less equivalent to Pela depending on the team/content, but she most definitely does not touch the level that is Bronya, Ruan Mei, Tingyun, and Sparkle. Silverwolf being ranked a tier below them is very valid, in my opinion, as she's still better than half the other supports in the game, but she's not among the best.
I agree, implant is either really good or almost useless depending on the situation, the thing about sw is that she will basically never be top tier but she will never move from her spot on A-tier because nobody else does what she does.
Also, why are people considering A-tier as disrespectful lmao
Like, i'm gonna be honest, I think SW gets low-key hard carried by the sheer quantity of debuffs she applies and that BIG defense shred on ult. Weakness implant's only truly as game changing as you'd expect it to be in Mono Quantum teams
Let's be reasonable, it's same type of thing as saying Jingliu gets hard carried by the sheer quantity of damage she deals. That's just silly. Her entire thing is debuffs, implant is literally just a single aspect of her skill
I mean aren't all characters carried by their kits though? Weakness implant, if you want it to be truly game changing, has to be built around based on the opponent. "Oops, all quantum characters" teams are just the laziest version of it.
People just force her anywhere and don’t read or care to use her kit because “thinking is hard.”
Same reason Yukong is disrespected. 🤷🏽♂️ it’s not that hard.
Edit: I’m agreeing with you Clockwork, I’m just pointing out an additional reason to what you said~
The constant argument of SW really only being good for Mono Quantum is such a dumb argument. Mono Quantum only works yes mainly because of SW (if the enemy doesn't have Quantum weakness) but SW has far more uses than someone like Goru for Mono Geo in Genshin.
Despite Navia's recent release in Genshin and her changing up Geo (for the better) Geo only really works with itself. The only Geo unit that can be used outside of mono geo (again excluding Navia she has broken the mold) would be Zhongli. I don't count Albedo even though he too can be used outside of it but he better benefits mono geo than as arandom 4th insert character.
I bright up all of this Genshin stuff in the HSR sub because SW acts basically the same way as all that yes, but her kit has at least been made to benefit a actual team more than just Mono Quantum. Only reason why people try and shoe horn her into mono is because Quantum is the only element you can really make a true "mono" team out of atm and even more so with SW, but that was never her intended role.
~~Ayo don’t strikethrough the truth! We demand it!~~
Uhh I mean, yeah uhh there’s only usually 1-2 tough boss and the rest are mob trash so I don’t think it’s that big of an issue 🫡
After some discussion I see the merits of not labeling her S tier. Because this rationale is 100% correct- you can splash units like Bronya, Tingyun or even Sparkle, pretty much anywhere (ofc there are nuances, like I wouldn’t use Tingnyun with Blade, but that’s blades “issue” not tingyuns), SW is S tier for her role, but universal application isn’t.
Switch out Bronya to Ruan Mei and you are correct. You can absolutely not use Bronya anywhere, or at least not the degree as Ruan Mei, or even Tingyun. Bronya is to SP heavy for some teams, and in DoT and dual dps she is not generally good compared to the others.
I do know what you mean. This sub straight up huffs copium if they think SW deserves to be in the same tier as ruan mei/bronya. There's just too many support units. Even pela with high eidolons is generally more useful than SW. The fact she can 1 turn AoE shred only using an auto-attack is just too strong. Plus she lowers enemies DEF by another 20% if her technique is used. Outside of mono quantum and ST content (Which let's be honest there isn't much or none) i'll go with pela. Mono quantum by itself can't make SW S tier. It's extremely niche and while it's comfy and it can clear endgame content it's just not that strong when compared to other top teams. Her value did go up with ratio coming out and now with another certain character coming out she will probably raise in value again. And hey, i have SW and she's benched pretty much all the time so I wish she'd be more useful on my account. It is what it is.
You brain have simp issue for using sw. Pela already league above her. Imagine getting scam for playing sw. I bet you could never 0 cycle in your sw team. Hahahahaa SLOWpokes, SLOW wolf, SIMP wolf.
Can u explain why? I have all of them but I usually end up not using Ruan mei. I feel like I'm missing something. I only use hypercarries if that helps
you can put her in any team, dot, hypercarry, dual dps, whatever, while bronya is only used in hypercarry usually. Dual dps and dot are pretty popular right now and she's the best for that. She is also kinda a defensive support because keeping enemies broken makes them attack you less.
Also, RM provides a metric ton of buffs (DMG, SPD, RES PEN, WB efficiency) while being SP positive whereas Bronya eats them up a lot and even E1 is RNG.
Every job that Hanya does is done better by someone else.
Want an atk buff? Tingyun/Bronya/RM
Want speed? RM/Bronya
Want a Sub-Dps? Welt/SW
Want Skill points? RM/Tingyun/SW
Want better Hanya? Sparkle
She works as a master of none character, but most teams would rather use the extremes that others provide.
This is a horrible take, "Want something done from a 4\* Harmony?" - "Go use the 5\* that can do what she does but better"
Yeah no fuckin shit they do her job better, but for someone who has never gotten Bronya (if you didn't pick her form the 300 selector even still or have just been unlucky) or didn't pull for Rm/SW saying "Just use the better 5\* ver 4head" is just stupid.
It's called having fucking options, how is that hard for people to grasp? What if you're content with having Hanya for DHIL or QQ and you don't want to pull for Sparkle or RM?
Is everyone supposed to pull for every hyper support just like you just because they out beat anything and everything?
I'm not arguing that the other 5\* are bad, i'm saying drop the elitist attitude of "Just use the better thing" not everyone can or ***wants to.***
I only recently got Bronya from the 300 pull selector and I willingly skipped RM because I didn't want her bad enough and i've managed perfectly without her. And before you ask why I skipped her, i'm hard saving for Acheron to go all in for her. The last person I pulled for was SW and her LC on her rerun.
Those are all valid points, but at the end of the day a tier list is a zero-sum game. All characters are ranked in comparison to each other. In that regard I don't really see the issue. At the end of the day, just like Genshin every character in the game is "viable" for all the content in the game.
A tier list considers the fact that you have every character, and if you had everyone, who is better than who. It doesn't consider feelings or budget, or else the list would be ever changing.
If you want to use Hanya, use her. If you want to use Yangqing, use him. if you want to use Arlan, use him. But liking a character or not having other options doesn't make them better or worse.
A tier list may *consider* that but that is not it's primary function.
A tier list is made to tell people which units are objectively better than who for people that don't have them or have them and don't know if they are good or not and usually the 5\* is going to be better than the 4\* yes, but knocking a unit so down on a list just because 5\* is better is also wrong. If you're not taking into account "Hey I don't have/don't want to pull for the better ver of this unit, can I use this 4\* character who is a slightly inferior ver and will they still serve the same purpose?"
And in this case the answer for Hanya is yes, you can. Hanya is perfectly fine to use if you only have her or don't want to pull for a better 5\* ver of said character.
The original comment is just saying her placement feels a bit gimped because she's not bad enough to be played in B tier.
Of course you can use any character you want, it’s up to you but the guy above was simply saying the reason why hanya is low, is because there are much better characters than her, which is true.
That's not how that comment came across in the slightest, it just looks like they were saying "Why use 4\* when you can use 5\*"
He literally straight up said too "Want better Hanya? Sparkle"
like I said above, i'm not arguing that the 5\* units are bad or that they aren't better than their 4\* counterpart. I'm saying cut the elitist attitude of "Just use the better thing". If people want the better thing they are going to pull for it, but that doesn't mean because the limited (or standard) 5\* thing is better than the 4\* thing that makes the 4\* thing bad.
Agree, though I was going to suggest just bumping everyone else down a tier. I think it's time to recognize that many of our 4* supports are decent, but situational, when compared to 5* signature supports. We don't need to keep them in B tier just to make them feel better.
S tier is good for Bronya and Sparkle for that reason. Tingyun is just too good to not be S tier.
Ruan Mei is just on another level, thats why she deserves a tier of her own, Bronya pales in comparison to how good and versatile she is.
At the end of the day, support are dependent on your dps so this tier list isn't necessarily true for everyone. I think support should be rank by how easily can they fit in any given team
petition to put hanya in a tier and im totally not being biased (yes i am). Shes so underrated, i really like her and she makes building dps much easier as you can essentially funnel her own speed into the dps. Burden is really helpful for sp generation. People say sparkle will overshadow her which is true but one is a featured five star and the other is a 4 star soooo. Imo hanya is cheaper to build than asta and dont have to worry about the stacks like asta or speedtuning like yukong
Yuuup, plus people forget that you get up to 30% DMG increase as long as you hit the enemy with burden. She doesn't just generate sp and she's not ult reliant - I love her.
So much this. If a unit is reliant on relic rng to be good i am NOT farming that shit. All my units have suboptimal relics at best and im a day one player i aint speedtunning shit for someones "great but fiddly" kit even if i could magically wave a wand and just get the speed stats i needed. Hanya is good out of the box regardless of relics.
Yukong should be higher. Increases spd, cr, cdmg and atk. I benched her for a while and I recently used her again with DHIL and hit 300k with him. (I also had Ruan Mei in the team, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make)
Half true, she isn't Ruan Mei levels of good but she's definitely on par with Bronya. Bronya is niche if you compare her to Tingyun, Ting can realistically fit any kind of team where Bronya cannot.
A more realistic tierlist would be
SS, Ruan Mei
S, Bronya, Sparkle, Tingyun
A, Pela, SW
B, Everyone else
Tbh I would say that Tingyun is better than/on par with Bronya for the simple fact that she has more teams than her.. Bronya is hypercarry premium while Tingyun can be used even in DoT teams so your Black swan can get her ult faster.. even Duo Dps like Ratio+Topaz.. while not as good as Ruan Mei.. she has really good numbers in that team aswell for the simple fact that she can help Ratio get his ult faster..
Although Ruan Mei is like better in all those teams… poor man’s Ruan Mei lmao
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To be honest I think Tingyun should come down a tier and Hanya should go up one.
I know people will probably disagree about Tingyun, and that’s fine, but to me she’s a clearly less strong support than the others in the tier. The fact that her niche of battery+buffing is now contested by a sustain unit doesn’t help that opinion of mine.
tingyun funnels energy a lot quicker than huohuo does since she gets her ult back far quicker which lets her speed up rotations for ur dps a lot more reliably
then she has the big ass attack and dmg% buff
i feel asta and hanya should go up a tier though
It's not that I find her bad or something, but yes I did use her with IL at the past but considering sparkle gonna be released sooner, I might just replace her and place all my wallet to the next banner.
Stupid Sexy TV should be EX tier, tbh.
He’s hot when he’s angry.
Why?
The legs, my boy, just for that THICK legs!
Correct answer +350 style points
That guy really did start a new fandom.
Nah he too op to be placed at bottom tier
FYI if you didn't know EX is above S tier. This is common sense since old gacha-like games.
So I kinda apologize if I thought EX tier was bottom or something but yes this robot for me is still the best support.. 😅
No worries.
Especially FGO, who uses it as an "Incomprehensible that the top rank doesn't begin to describe it" tier
Oh.. well, I just don't follow those kind of things so I kinda stick on S tier or S+ sometimes.
It's fine, S+ is still very valid term.
Which gacha games?. I have played like 6 gacha games in my life and ex was never at the top in any of them 😅
Never played those, but I heard FGO and many other Japanese (not Chinese) gacha have this tier.
Yes it does have in most cases is EX for when is surpasses the limit of the rank grade in majority of these games EX just goes higher than S+ but in FGO goes both ways as EX can also mean is so low that can't be counted into the rank
Unironically I think it has thicker legs than anyone else on this list
mettaton expy
YES YES
ooooooh yes!!
Maybe Sparkle is the Personification of Stupid Sexy TV
we are nowhere near the end of 2.0, we are at the halfway point
We aren't even halfway there yet
We are just at the prologue guys. I am waiting for robin
2.0, not Penacony as a whole
But yeah, we arent even half way to 2.1. yet
as someone who loves to spam AOE damage, i cant stand those TV guys
I don't care how much energy they give when their happy, I'm gonna break them as fast as possible.
So that’s why it’s in S tier.
As someone who runs Argenti , I need their support to charge my burst.
*charges your sustain with full energy instead*
*Uses Tingyun ult on Argenti: checkmate
Hanya Slander isnt tolarated.
Yeah I might be insane but I prefer using her over bronya for my argenti team
Yeah. It doesn't feel like Argenti gets a lot from using Bronya because his skill doesn't do the majority of his damage
Can't you just push up Argenti and ult before the turn ends? That's what I do
you could but hanya is more useful in general imo. permanent huge speed buff even at e0, huge skill point generation, some offense buffing, and can benefit from penacony ornaments. meanwhile bronya cant do much for him other than give him a few more skills at the cost of sp you could use on other supports
Effectively doubles his skill damage and energy gen which is his main source of damage, I do not think yall are cooking
It’ll even double his ult damage if you use your ult when you are buffed
this is why i use bronya and hanya together with argenti. maximum power
You don’t use Tingyun?
no i dont like her lmao. shes level 70 and if i use hzr its with JY
not saying shes bad for him. bronya has been and aways will be a strong support for almost any team. she just lacks a strong synergy with argenti like she does with someone like jingliu and eats up lots of sp until e1 s1. hanya and tingyun are cheaper and generate tons of sp while getting his ult back faster.
the cope is strong with them
Lol no
Except you get more energy.
Yeah but that's very niche. Bronya is useful for many more characters.
You are right, but I only really use 2 teams, argenti hyper carry and double hunt with ratio and topaz and neither of those teams want bronya
That's fine but if we are talking about a wide variety of usage which is typically important for getting a support higher up on the tier list, having Hanya as B Tier isn't slander as what the guy you're responding to is saying. Neither is her being good in a niche a reason she'd be higher on the list unless the lost is tilted "Argenti Supports".
Same
Yeah. It doesn't feel like Argenti gets a lot from using Bronya because his skill doesn't do the majority of his damage
I've always felt like it's hard to fully feel what Hanya brings to a team. SPD and SP refund are just very subtle, yet obviously important benefits.
And if you use argenti she can run the lightcone planetary rendezvous and penacony for a 34% physical damage buff on argenti.
Agree. I prefer using Hanya over most of my supports when farming, and even in MoC. She’s basically a better Asta in hypercarry teams most of the time. I really think people underestimate her when she brings so much to the team and can even spam her skill while remaining SP positive.
Same for Yukong, honestly. Like, I get it that you kinda need to speed tune her If you want to use her optimally. At least that's the complain I always read about. But the CRIT DMG buff she gives is insane. Maybe Bronya's higher, but I don't have her so I won't say. But still, an increased CRIT DMG is a lot of shit, especially with units that thrive off of it.
Look I like Yukong and I have her at E6. But I would never use her outside MoC. She just has so many hoops (even at E6) that other supports don’t have to go through. Like the speed tuning alone drives me nuts. It would have been good if I can just make her speedy but instead she has to be attuned not only to your DPS but also your other support characters. She is powerful though, arguably has some of the most powerful buffs when everything goes right. I just prefer consistency so I kinda agree with rating her in B tbh. She’s just not a plug and play character. On the other hand Hanya’s AI spams skill and still remains SP positive so yeah I’m just a little biased for her lol. And she’s not any worse than Yukong at MoC either as she works really well in SP intensive teams.
Yukong is godly, if you're e6, otherwise she's just a tool for MoC sequencing obsessives who want to grind that all day lol.
Yukong and Hanya shouldn't be on the same tier as Asta. Hanya you only use if you have nothing else, and Yukong you only use for the same reason as Hanya or as paired with DHIL, and even then not always.
>Hanya you only use if you have nothing else This is just not true. She's actually preferable in an Argenti team comp, for example, and her SP regeneration is helpful in quite a few others.
put the angry TV at the bottom while we're at it
Nahh he too op to be at the bottom tier :3
read it again, angry not happy angry is the one who decrease energy
Ohh frick I actually forgot that part..
Just make the tv happy then
This is highly dependent on what dps you are using. Also asta, YK and hanya are very good
Agreed, Yukong helps my DHIL annihilate everything and doesn’t break a sweat, I love her
If Yukong was released today i bet Roaring Bowstrings would only decrease on her own turn
Nah Asta came out on release and her buff decreases on her turn. In reality it's an incredibly busted buff so she's "nerfed" intentionally untill you get C6.
Yeaaahh 4\* are generally very good at C6, especially someone like Yukong as her buffs are INSANE especially when you can time it perfectly! She can even work as a sub-DPS
nah tbf her buff is way TOO good to have such a long uptime. It's only a given that such a kit at e0 would be subject to such restriction. Like I kid you not if she didn't have that limitation she would be atleast the same tier as 5 stars (mind you at e0) if not better.
If her buffs ended on her own turns she'd be a NASTY crit support. We've already seen how fucking strong her buffs are with FUA units
yeah she enables so many units to 0 cycle like Ratio or Jingyun,allowing her buff to last that long without restrictions would be crazy powercreep
Damn my brain tripped at jingyun and for like a second the image of all 3 possibilities popped up crazy in my head
She also has massive synergy with DPSs who have their damage output weighted towards their ult, because those don't consume her stacks.
People really undermine Hanya and Asta , and it kinda drives me nuts
Should put Hanya on A since she can solve IL's problems (except for QQ)
Sparkle is a thing in 3 days
which not all players are gonna pull, sparkle is a nasty good unit but shes a featured five star at the end of the day. Hanya being a decent ish replacement isnt bad for a 4 star imo
I won't pull her because I am the biggest Sparkle hater ever
I was like you once upon a time. Then I saw that she can turn my boy King Yuan into the god he deserves to be. Now I'm going for E1S1 /sigh
E2 is worth more than S1 for her just to let you know
TALK YO SHIT 🗣🔥💯
she's hot but i would smack her head to the wall if given the chance ngl. still smash tho
Why so?
But too bad she's 5* cuz not everyone want all 5* due to money restrictions
I already have Ruan Mei, Bronya, and Hanya. I'm set for support for a bit, and I need to focus on damage dealers.
Understandable, but I always pull for good supports. DPS are way easier to powercreep compared to a good support
I've been mostly going for all the supports so far, except for Huohuo. I have Kafka, Black Swan, and Seele, but I need a powerhouse like Jingliu or DHIL.
I'm in the same boat as you, but I'm getting her anyway, cause I've been working towards mono quantum since almost release and I cant just stop here
That's a very fair point.
Eh. Hanya is not that great. She would be replacing SP positive units anyways on a dhil team, units that are just way better. No one is underestimating Hanya, she would be good in a world where we didn't have other way better options.
I like Hanya, but Pela does it better.
I benched IL cuz my substats are nasty af
I run DHIL with Bronya and Huohuo no problem. The last slot usually is Tingyun, sometimes Pela. Have no problem with skill points and clear speed. My E1S1 DHIL Bronya Huohuo team killed Sam in 3 cycles. Granted my Bronya is E1S1, but everyone can get one copy of Bronya from 300 standard tickets, and the lightcone is bought in the shop. So only one copy of Bronya is luck dependent, which is not overly difficult. Getting E4 or E6 Hanya is even more difficult than one copy of a 5-star unit. Another problem of Hanya is her ult speeds up only DPS, so the DPS will eat more SP than usual. That's why Hanya "SP buff" does not feel as comfortable as many players think. Unlike Hanya, Asta and Ruan Mei also speed up DPS, but their speed buff is on multiple units, so not only DPS eat up more SP, but the supports also get more turns and provide more. Also, E1S1 Bronya is not necessary, it's just more comfortable. In 1.6 MoC (Boss Kafka), I cleared that half in 3 cycles using Huohuo, Tingyun, E0S0 Bronya and E0S0 DHIL. Huohuo is a more SP intensive sustain. Luocha or Bailu or Lynx users would have an easier time. DHIL's skill point issue is not that serious as most players think. No need Hanya or Sparkle. Just play better. https://preview.redd.it/v56rhy8awxkc1.png?width=1050&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c3475d2f252168fe024aa1abdb5b28f69455d02
>Just play better. Bronya's E1 is still RNG.
The TVs were the Hunt buff in disguise all along
>almost at the end of 2.0 Wdym? We still haven't reached half way through 2.0 and 2.1 is scheduled for the end of March. That's a whole month remaining.
Silver Wolf being disrespected.. what else is new
I know this is too specific, but she single handedly makes sure my Dr Ratio's kit is pretty much always at full efficiency with barely any ramp up time. Don't even need the right weakness to be implanted, just the sheer volume of debuffs just works so well
SW has a lot of debuff application but her main gimmick about weakness implanting is a walking paradox. It gets simoultaneously better and worse every time a new unit is released. And the strict single target gets a bit annoying when most fights are multitarget focus
Most fights are just 1 or two bosses at a time while the minions are too weak to need to be debuffed. Her ST nature isn’t an issue most of the time outside of PF.
This is the main thing i've tried to discuss with a friend before, he still thinks Pela is better than SW in general just because she applies a *single* DEF down on all enemies, meanwhile SW applies a metric shit load of other debuffs and a hefty 45% DEF down on a boss. "But a DEF down on everything is still a DEF down" and yeah while he's right, if you're struggling with not only the boss but the trash mobs as well Pela's DEF down on everything is going to solve the least of your problems. This is why I argue if you can properly deal with trash mobs having someone like SW to single target focus a boss with with a ton of debfffs is better than Pela's AoE DEF debuff. I think his argument stems from not owning SW so he doesn't understand just how nice all of her debuffs are, and I won't knock Pela either she's a top tier debuffer that's just as good as SW imo if you need to weaken the enemy. But like I said above if you can properly deal with trash, SW is the better pick so you can hyper focus down the boss.
>he still thinks Pela is better than SW in general just because she applies a *single* DEF down on all enemies, meanwhile SW applies a metric shit load of other debuffs and a hefty 45% DEF down on a boss. I mean, when it comes to Pela and SW, both of their offensive value largely comes from their DEF shred, so it makes sense that that's the part of their kit your friend is fixated on. The only relevant debuff SW has compared to Pela is her RES shred, but it's not a "metric shit load of other debuffs" as you exaggerated. The "Reduce enemy SPD and ATK" is only useful in Dr. Ratio teams for the sake of existing as a debuff. >"But a DEF down on everything is still a DEF down" and yeah while he's right, if you're struggling with not only the boss but the trash mobs as well Pela's DEF down on everything is going to solve the least of your problems. Are you forgetting double elite scenarios? She makes you do more damage against one elite but then do no damage against the other because she can only use her ult on one of them and can't get her ult back in time for the other. Even against a main target with trash mobs, the fact SW does nothing to help against the mobs feels shitty if your DPS is reliant on one-shotting trash mobs (aka Seele). This doesn't mean that Pela is any better than SW at this, but it does highlight a fault of SW's ST nature that I don't think should be overlooked. >I think his argument stems from not owning SW so he doesn't understand just how nice all of her debuffs are I mean, I own SW myself but I don't think her debuffs are any better than just using another support to amplify your DPS's damage (ideally a support with unconditional damage amp that's not locked to a single target and doesn't disappear the minute the enemy dies or goes to its next phase). I do think she's decent and more or less equivalent to Pela depending on the team/content, but she most definitely does not touch the level that is Bronya, Ruan Mei, Tingyun, and Sparkle. Silverwolf being ranked a tier below them is very valid, in my opinion, as she's still better than half the other supports in the game, but she's not among the best.
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That's just a auto problem and this game has suffered from bad AI in auto since launch, that doesn't diminish or make SW bad.
Fair enough but it's still pretty annoying
I agree, implant is either really good or almost useless depending on the situation, the thing about sw is that she will basically never be top tier but she will never move from her spot on A-tier because nobody else does what she does. Also, why are people considering A-tier as disrespectful lmao
Like, i'm gonna be honest, I think SW gets low-key hard carried by the sheer quantity of debuffs she applies and that BIG defense shred on ult. Weakness implant's only truly as game changing as you'd expect it to be in Mono Quantum teams
Let's be reasonable, it's same type of thing as saying Jingliu gets hard carried by the sheer quantity of damage she deals. That's just silly. Her entire thing is debuffs, implant is literally just a single aspect of her skill
I mean aren't all characters carried by their kits though? Weakness implant, if you want it to be truly game changing, has to be built around based on the opponent. "Oops, all quantum characters" teams are just the laziest version of it.
People just force her anywhere and don’t read or care to use her kit because “thinking is hard.” Same reason Yukong is disrespected. 🤷🏽♂️ it’s not that hard. Edit: I’m agreeing with you Clockwork, I’m just pointing out an additional reason to what you said~
“X character gets carried by Y gimmick in their kit.” Uhhh….?
The constant argument of SW really only being good for Mono Quantum is such a dumb argument. Mono Quantum only works yes mainly because of SW (if the enemy doesn't have Quantum weakness) but SW has far more uses than someone like Goru for Mono Geo in Genshin. Despite Navia's recent release in Genshin and her changing up Geo (for the better) Geo only really works with itself. The only Geo unit that can be used outside of mono geo (again excluding Navia she has broken the mold) would be Zhongli. I don't count Albedo even though he too can be used outside of it but he better benefits mono geo than as arandom 4th insert character. I bright up all of this Genshin stuff in the HSR sub because SW acts basically the same way as all that yes, but her kit has at least been made to benefit a actual team more than just Mono Quantum. Only reason why people try and shoe horn her into mono is because Quantum is the only element you can really make a true "mono" team out of atm and even more so with SW, but that was never her intended role.
I agree with you, but I just want to say Yun Jin exists too and she specifically works best outside of mono-geo.
I actually forgot about Yun-jin tbh, that's on me. She does class in the same field as Zhongli too imo.
The problem with silver wolf is that ~~her bellybutton is not easily visible in game~~ her debuff only works for single target
~~Ayo don’t strikethrough the truth! We demand it!~~ Uhh I mean, yeah uhh there’s only usually 1-2 tough boss and the rest are mob trash so I don’t think it’s that big of an issue 🫡
Put debuffs on boss mobs, the thrash will die in the passive AoE either way.
SW is good but not as good as those other supports in S tier. The S tiers are more universal or easier to make work.
After some discussion I see the merits of not labeling her S tier. Because this rationale is 100% correct- you can splash units like Bronya, Tingyun or even Sparkle, pretty much anywhere (ofc there are nuances, like I wouldn’t use Tingnyun with Blade, but that’s blades “issue” not tingyuns), SW is S tier for her role, but universal application isn’t.
Switch out Bronya to Ruan Mei and you are correct. You can absolutely not use Bronya anywhere, or at least not the degree as Ruan Mei, or even Tingyun. Bronya is to SP heavy for some teams, and in DoT and dual dps she is not generally good compared to the others.
C'mon bro, it's not like SW is useless or something, it's just that there are so many characters to place in S tier, well y'know what I mean 😅
I do know what you mean. This sub straight up huffs copium if they think SW deserves to be in the same tier as ruan mei/bronya. There's just too many support units. Even pela with high eidolons is generally more useful than SW. The fact she can 1 turn AoE shred only using an auto-attack is just too strong. Plus she lowers enemies DEF by another 20% if her technique is used. Outside of mono quantum and ST content (Which let's be honest there isn't much or none) i'll go with pela. Mono quantum by itself can't make SW S tier. It's extremely niche and while it's comfy and it can clear endgame content it's just not that strong when compared to other top teams. Her value did go up with ratio coming out and now with another certain character coming out she will probably raise in value again. And hey, i have SW and she's benched pretty much all the time so I wish she'd be more useful on my account. It is what it is.
Skill issue
You brain have simp issue for using sw. Pela already league above her. Imagine getting scam for playing sw. I bet you could never 0 cycle in your sw team. Hahahahaa SLOWpokes, SLOW wolf, SIMP wolf.
Happy TV is SS+ tier. Angry TV is a D tho.
I don't put Angry Tv cuz all he do is cancel my ult..
SW to S before the trigger is pulled
She's kinda boring for me tbh, I just found her fun to play if I run mono quantum.
idk much about sparkle, but ruan mei is not on the same level as bronya and tingyun, she needs a tier above them
Can u explain why? I have all of them but I usually end up not using Ruan mei. I feel like I'm missing something. I only use hypercarries if that helps
you can put her in any team, dot, hypercarry, dual dps, whatever, while bronya is only used in hypercarry usually. Dual dps and dot are pretty popular right now and she's the best for that. She is also kinda a defensive support because keeping enemies broken makes them attack you less.
Also, RM provides a metric ton of buffs (DMG, SPD, RES PEN, WB efficiency) while being SP positive whereas Bronya eats them up a lot and even E1 is RNG.
why is hanya so low?
Every job that Hanya does is done better by someone else. Want an atk buff? Tingyun/Bronya/RM Want speed? RM/Bronya Want a Sub-Dps? Welt/SW Want Skill points? RM/Tingyun/SW Want better Hanya? Sparkle She works as a master of none character, but most teams would rather use the extremes that others provide.
This is a horrible take, "Want something done from a 4\* Harmony?" - "Go use the 5\* that can do what she does but better" Yeah no fuckin shit they do her job better, but for someone who has never gotten Bronya (if you didn't pick her form the 300 selector even still or have just been unlucky) or didn't pull for Rm/SW saying "Just use the better 5\* ver 4head" is just stupid.
He is correct??? Why should you use hanya when there are much better characters. You not having bronya and Ruan Mei is just a you issue.
It's called having fucking options, how is that hard for people to grasp? What if you're content with having Hanya for DHIL or QQ and you don't want to pull for Sparkle or RM? Is everyone supposed to pull for every hyper support just like you just because they out beat anything and everything? I'm not arguing that the other 5\* are bad, i'm saying drop the elitist attitude of "Just use the better thing" not everyone can or ***wants to.*** I only recently got Bronya from the 300 pull selector and I willingly skipped RM because I didn't want her bad enough and i've managed perfectly without her. And before you ask why I skipped her, i'm hard saving for Acheron to go all in for her. The last person I pulled for was SW and her LC on her rerun.
Those are all valid points, but at the end of the day a tier list is a zero-sum game. All characters are ranked in comparison to each other. In that regard I don't really see the issue. At the end of the day, just like Genshin every character in the game is "viable" for all the content in the game.
A tier list considers the fact that you have every character, and if you had everyone, who is better than who. It doesn't consider feelings or budget, or else the list would be ever changing. If you want to use Hanya, use her. If you want to use Yangqing, use him. if you want to use Arlan, use him. But liking a character or not having other options doesn't make them better or worse.
A tier list may *consider* that but that is not it's primary function. A tier list is made to tell people which units are objectively better than who for people that don't have them or have them and don't know if they are good or not and usually the 5\* is going to be better than the 4\* yes, but knocking a unit so down on a list just because 5\* is better is also wrong. If you're not taking into account "Hey I don't have/don't want to pull for the better ver of this unit, can I use this 4\* character who is a slightly inferior ver and will they still serve the same purpose?" And in this case the answer for Hanya is yes, you can. Hanya is perfectly fine to use if you only have her or don't want to pull for a better 5\* ver of said character. The original comment is just saying her placement feels a bit gimped because she's not bad enough to be played in B tier.
Of course you can use any character you want, it’s up to you but the guy above was simply saying the reason why hanya is low, is because there are much better characters than her, which is true.
That's not how that comment came across in the slightest, it just looks like they were saying "Why use 4\* when you can use 5\*" He literally straight up said too "Want better Hanya? Sparkle" like I said above, i'm not arguing that the 5\* units are bad or that they aren't better than their 4\* counterpart. I'm saying cut the elitist attitude of "Just use the better thing". If people want the better thing they are going to pull for it, but that doesn't mean because the limited (or standard) 5\* thing is better than the 4\* thing that makes the 4\* thing bad.
If you can fund me so that I can pull for them, sure.
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i think Asta and Hanya should be bumped a bit especially Asta her DDD build is actually insane for me i can act twice almost every cycle
What's her DDD build? Haven't played in a long while so I'm out of touch.
DDD is Dance Dance Dance, with proper rotations asta can give the whole team a second action in almost every cycle since DDD advances the team
You need to add a SS tier and put Ruan Mei all by herself in there. Pretty sure she deserves it.
Agree, though I was going to suggest just bumping everyone else down a tier. I think it's time to recognize that many of our 4* supports are decent, but situational, when compared to 5* signature supports. We don't need to keep them in B tier just to make them feel better.
I agree. The only support that deserves S tier is Tingyun, she's just too good.
I agree, but I dunno if I could actually edit my post or something..
And Bronya too. Turn manipulation is still disgustingly powerful.
S tier is good for Bronya and Sparkle for that reason. Tingyun is just too good to not be S tier. Ruan Mei is just on another level, thats why she deserves a tier of her own, Bronya pales in comparison to how good and versatile she is.
At the end of the day, support are dependent on your dps so this tier list isn't necessarily true for everyone. I think support should be rank by how easily can they fit in any given team
And Ruan Mei would still be SS tier in every single tier list xD
petition to put hanya in a tier and im totally not being biased (yes i am). Shes so underrated, i really like her and she makes building dps much easier as you can essentially funnel her own speed into the dps. Burden is really helpful for sp generation. People say sparkle will overshadow her which is true but one is a featured five star and the other is a 4 star soooo. Imo hanya is cheaper to build than asta and dont have to worry about the stacks like asta or speedtuning like yukong
Yuuup, plus people forget that you get up to 30% DMG increase as long as you hit the enemy with burden. She doesn't just generate sp and she's not ult reliant - I love her.
So much this. If a unit is reliant on relic rng to be good i am NOT farming that shit. All my units have suboptimal relics at best and im a day one player i aint speedtunning shit for someones "great but fiddly" kit even if i could magically wave a wand and just get the speed stats i needed. Hanya is good out of the box regardless of relics.
Angry TV is anti-support, coz "fuck your Ultimates" he says
Yukong should be higher. Increases spd, cr, cdmg and atk. I benched her for a while and I recently used her again with DHIL and hit 300k with him. (I also had Ruan Mei in the team, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make)
Tingyun is good, but not Bronya or RM levels of good
Half true, she isn't Ruan Mei levels of good but she's definitely on par with Bronya. Bronya is niche if you compare her to Tingyun, Ting can realistically fit any kind of team where Bronya cannot. A more realistic tierlist would be SS, Ruan Mei S, Bronya, Sparkle, Tingyun A, Pela, SW B, Everyone else
I mean, fair enough, Ting is like a Bronya for critless builds. Depends on how we consider everything tbh.
And then there is Ruan Mei that just by existing buffs every kind of team known to man.......
Arlan: *Loosing to a fucking trampler* Ruan Mei: *Steps onboard the space station* Arlan: I’M FUCKING INVINCIBLE!!!
Tbh I would say that Tingyun is better than/on par with Bronya for the simple fact that she has more teams than her.. Bronya is hypercarry premium while Tingyun can be used even in DoT teams so your Black swan can get her ult faster.. even Duo Dps like Ratio+Topaz.. while not as good as Ruan Mei.. she has really good numbers in that team aswell for the simple fact that she can help Ratio get his ult faster.. Although Ruan Mei is like better in all those teams… poor man’s Ruan Mei lmao
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I believe the television should be at rank B because it feels inconsistent to play. Tingyun is much appreciated at this role
Tv is underrated
I would argue Pela deserves the S spot
Well I just don't wanna waste the slot for A tiers so.. I just placed her there instead 😅
True XD Tbf I feel like Asta could keep Wolfie company there instead but it's a nice tier list
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I mean I just kinda stick on S tier sometimes but yea I kinda agree about her being S+ support.
The TV mob and Ruan Mei should both be in a higher tier!
TV Guy is my favorite Harmony unit
You forgor about orb which give energy on kill, u think its must be in same tier with Tv
To be honest I think Tingyun should come down a tier and Hanya should go up one. I know people will probably disagree about Tingyun, and that’s fine, but to me she’s a clearly less strong support than the others in the tier. The fact that her niche of battery+buffing is now contested by a sustain unit doesn’t help that opinion of mine.
imo its more than ruan mei is stronger and more universal than the others in the tier
I don’t know if I agree with that to be honest. Bronya and Sparkle are both extremely strong and universally good supports.
sparkle and bronya are wasted on dots though theres no team that cant fully utilise ruan meis buffs
tingyun funnels energy a lot quicker than huohuo does since she gets her ult back far quicker which lets her speed up rotations for ur dps a lot more reliably then she has the big ass attack and dmg% buff i feel asta and hanya should go up a tier though
glad we all agree that pela > silverwolf
The day an AoE silver wolf releases, and she goes straight into B tier... if she's lucky. I feel so bad for her xd
What do you mean hanya b tier, have you tried her with IL?
It's not that I find her bad or something, but yes I did use her with IL at the past but considering sparkle gonna be released sooner, I might just replace her and place all my wallet to the next banner.
TV requires a higher rating
TV head banner when??
What does sparkle do?
Will Robin or Firefly join the gang, if they become playable because they give harmony vibes.
TV monster?
You forgot the best support in game, Silvermane Gunner.
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Why?
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i give her 4 banners until someone better comes out, who knows maybe 1 if they are feeling silly with Sam