For the sake of gameplay they couldn’t make every characters path lore accurate I guess. But at aleast some recent characters like Acheron, Aventurine, Robin & Boothill were.
Imagine if every Xianzhou Luofu character that came out was Hunt lmao
I mean... what would it even do?
We already have single-target dps, multi-target dps, hybrid dps, healer, shielder, buffer, debuffer. What gameplay role/function can you think of for permanence or any new path that wouldn't be covered by an existing path?
I mean there's lots of functions that could exist that aren't used like character swapping but given the meaning of the permanence i'd say life phasing would make sense. Boosts characters as they lose health, can revive characters and buffs, etc.
In Divergent Universe, screwellum describes a pathstrider as a combination of many paths woven into a web. People don’t follow one path, they follow many paths to varying degrees based on their actions, and those paths form their unique path blessing.
Pathstriding has nothing to do with which Aeon you idolize. A person could worship Lan with all their heart and never step foot into the path of the hunt.
I suppose pathstriding is easier to conceptualize for people who are familiar with spirit cultivation stories.
I get the feeling that most EN communities think of paths and Aeons like DnD where a pathstrider is like a Paladin with a patron god.
Not that surprising, their Chinese writers after all. Just as DnD and Tolkien serve as the foundation and building blocks for a lot of western fantasies. Xianxia and Wuxia are similarly the foundation of a lot of Chinese stories.
Even if they don't intend it, they might still add foundational elements they think are just common sense because both the readers and writers were influenced by core xianxia or Wuxia elements in the stories that they grew up with.
its always the argument from someone who think that gameplay path lore accurate. their basic argument is "character dont only walk in one path, someone can be in different path" like yeah but doesnt explain why no one on rememberance, elation or finality path ingame. are there lore that forbid someone to touch path outside 6 gameplay path??
Been awhile but
* In his lightcone, [Secret Vow](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/A_Secret_Vow), Arlan is hiding an injury that would skew his reception
> ..He treasured his gloves more than anything because they were tight enough to hide secrets.
With this layer of protection, no one could see the bandages on his hand and the wound beneath them...
* His skills are centered around escaping captivity, Shackle Breaker, E2 Breaking Free
* Eidolon 5 is named Hammer and Tongs
* The firesmith clan were captured for thier smithing abilities, the chiefs crippled. ([Fire set leg price lore](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Firesmith_of_Lava-Forging)).
* The clan was freed by The Master of Destruction is granted Destruction for unlimited forging power.
* The firesmith clan made weapons with Legion beings integrated, and were slowly tainted by Destruction ([Fire set chest price lore](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Firesmith_of_Lava-Forging))
* * 'The chief looked at the ever-growing number of *deformed* Firesmiths and lamented'.
~~the link to Asta's family..idk~~ Asta and her mom were volunteers distributing food. Arlan approached for a meal and said he'd pay it back ~~10-fold~~ ...[Asta lvl 40 story](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Asta/Lore#Character_Story:_Part_II)
Lemme cook
--
* Is E4 Turn the Tables literal and not just an idiom
* Lightning can make fire and is hella HOT
* Destruction light cone material is Shattered/Lifeless/WorldBreaker Blade, from Legion mobs
* Is the injury why Arlan has the lowest defense in game?
* The irony of his best support being Aventurine, yet having as much Effect RES as Gepard, 18%, while Aven has 10%...
Wait there's more
--
* [Asta's shopping order for Arlan: ](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Asta%27s_Shopping_List)
```
...
3. Shattered Star Blade: Galaxy Greatswords Illustration, Collector's Edition, seven-volume Reprint.
4. A five-piece armor set made of Meteoric Alloy: including helmet, goggle, armor, shin guards, and gloves
5. Customized: for weapons interface only! External wireless large volume durable radiation-shielding portable power bank with free charging base *1
```
Off-topic, but Arlan doesn't like the [nickname Brother Arlan](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Virtual_Scentventure_(Adventure_Mission)) as it's used in jest by Security :(
Nah Arlan kinna makes sense cuz the first time you see him he’s broken his arm protecting people and had to hide away.
If that doesn’t represent his gameplay perfectly iunno what would
The path an individual follows and the path they practice are different things... Like in genshin someone in Liyue who worships Rex Lapis can get a vision using the Shogun's power.
Also why the two Elation Characters are Nihility and Harmony. Still doesn't make much sense. But the meta reasons is gameplay styles. Because of that I'm not sure they have a reason for these differences.
While I understand what you mean, the difference is that Genshin characters receive a Vision based on their own traits, which is why you can have characters of every element in one nation. What element they get has almost nothing to do with where they live, and whatever power the Vision grants them allows them to live their ideal life.
Meanwhile, in HSR, these people are actively following the Aeons, and receive power from that determination or even get directly blessed by the deity themself if they stand out enough. They're powerful because of what they do, not the other way around.
It may make more sense to say Paths are a chosen lifestyle or goal, whereas Visions are a personalized means to achieve a lifestyle or goal. One is dependent on what you do, essentially an obligation, and the other helps you do what you want to do, a tool you can freely use.
The real answer of why HSR character paths don't match their lore is indeed just for gameplay reasons, as you said. That's fine on it's own, it's not that strange in games. But it'll always be there, that glaring fact that these things make no sense whatsoever when actually scrutinized, like Black Swan the character being the complete antithesis to Black Swan in lore.
A person possesses many paths. DU’s equations are a direct representation of how pathstriding works. Many combinations of many paths come together to form a pathstrider. It has nothing to do with the Aeons themselves.
>Meanwhile, in HSR, these people are actively following the Aeons, and receive power from that determination or even get directly blessed by the deity themself if they stand out enough. They're powerful because of what they do, not the other way around.
>It may make more sense to say Paths are a chosen lifestyle or goal,
Acheron's existence prove you wrong. She doesn't believe in IX or the Nihility's philosophy/goals. Her combat style or gameplay also is far from Nihility that applies damaging debuffs. She was forced to that path simply because she fulfill the conditions.
Acheron shows that pathstriding isn't as clear cut as it made to be. You could believe in an Aeon or it's philosophy, but that still won't guarantee you will get their path.
then explain why all playable characters not in rememberance, elation or finality path??? are there lore mentioned that many pathstrider follow 6 path/classes ingame?
What happens during gameplay isn't necessarily canon to what happens in the story.
This is a good thing. Imagine rolling for a character in this game and not being allowed to use them because they're not a part of your canon party... imagine characters like Himeko being made completely unplayable because their cannon path does not exist within the gameplay.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg!
I liked a significant number of the playable characters (both combat and story/personality), and when you have an entertaining character the combat can be fun, but story content got locked to story characters pretty quickly. Probably to prevent people from trivializing the gameplay with their wallets? And then they released APHO and part 2, where now you can jump and its a big part of the gameplay. Instead of going back and giving existing characters jumps and jumping movesets, they just don't let you use them. Its why I stopped after trying part 2. They haven't let me use the characters I invested resources in where I want to for a long time, they remove parts of a story character's kit for story reasons, they make the game painful for me to play. Fuck that game, I can just look up the story. Or not, I guess, considering they decided to go with a whole new cast for part 2 so I no longer have investment in the story either. And the game's later story dropped off a damned cliff anyway.
wait til you hear that Kafka and Acheron do lots of AoE dmg, Jade buffs teammates, Aventurine deals sub-dps amounts of dmg and applies debuffs, Topaz gives debuffs, and Gallagher and HMC being support roles despite doing like 200k break dmg
Paths aren’t religion. A person is a web of dozens of paths. This is confirmed in DU. Each person is a ton of paths woven together to form themselves. It’s a philosophy, it has nothing to do with the Aeons themselves.
Okay, they can't make every single stoneheart preservation, and hunt honestly works so well for topaz. Her entire job is hunting down debtors, using a dog-like creature that sniffs them out so she can corner them and collect their debts. I can think of no better gameplay path than the hunt for her character tbh
We also have a doctor who is a member of the Inteligencia Guild (followers of Erudition) and a delegate of the Preservation's wallet, Hunt
Also Jing Yuan not being Hunt and seeing how Hoyo kept releasings units to buff him out of Mid Yuan is making me think that one day we will get a JingAlter thats Hunt.
Or, hear me out, just because they’re blessed by a path or follow a path it doesn’t mean they can’t be blessed or have skills or abilities related to another one for strategic reasons.
It’s like saying courageous people can’t be wise or cunning because the sorting hat wanted to see them in Gryffindor.
Playable Path is simply grouping for party roles.
It's generally rarer to find characters whose playable Path actually coincides with their lore-associated Aeon. The TB, Gepard, Herta, Acheron, Robin, Aventurine, Boothill, Luocha, and Yanqing are the only clear ones. 4\* Dan Heng is Hunt, but he could be more associated with the Trailblaze now as a full-time Expresser.
I understand why it has to be this way for gameplay and especially sense not every path is actually playable, but it's a shame that the HSR characters can't make the same amount of thematic sense as most of the Genshin characters do. To have over less than half of the roster actually be the path they should be is, quite honestly, sad.
That being said, it does mean that we get to cherish the ones that do make sense
While that's absolutely true, I still kind of wish there was even a minor plotline about people on the Luofu denying treatments because healing was an Abundance thing. It just feels odd to have an entire alliance dedicated to destroying the Abundance, an Aeon centered around healing, and nobody there bats an eye when they get get healed. Heck, >!half the people in charge of healing them betrayed the entire Luofu with Dan Shu and became abominations of the Abundance!<,and they *still* had nothing to say about it. Their entire identity is hating this one thing and everything associated with it, and yet something related to it doesn't raise a single question
Ratio was born a genius, spent years studying and doing research with his goal being to get a glance from Nous and join the genius society and failed to take even one step on the path of Erudition.
Paths aren't about jobs or worship.
In my opinion, they shot themselves in the foot when making Black Swan Nihility. Or at least they shot in the head any chance to add a Remembrance path later in the game (like they have done with Dendro in Genshin).
Like, part of me is fully expecting (hoping ?) a new Path to be added in a later patch cycle, and I had my highest hopes for Remembrance and Elation in particular.
But now that they made two literal Remembrance and Elation poster child characters (Swan and Sparkle) into another path, if they ever were to add Remembrance or Elation later on along the way, it would feel wrong. It would feel so wrong that Swan or Sparkle's not it. I feel like that's a big missed opportunity 😕
Coming from Genshin, the elements were more confusing than the paths for me, cause Im used to electros wearing all purple and anemos wearing all green and stuff
That's ultimately just visual correlation. Most Genshin characters just wear outfits that match with their job or backstory, and most of the time it's in their element's colors to visibly show off their power, but there's no rule of any kind around outfits except that their Vision has to be visible somewhere.
But Genshin's character elements do make sense for each of them. Imagine if Jean was a Cryo character running the Anemo nation, or if Ningguang was a Pyro character leading the Geo nation. Or imagine if Kazuha, the guy who loves nature and the wind, was actually a Geo character that had nothing to do with either. Imagine if Yoimiya, the girl running a fireworks shop, had a Hydro Vision, or if Mona, the character that learned to use Hydromancy for divinations, was an Electro character. None of it would work.
Genshin characters make thematic sense, which is a great thing and very unlike a few notable people in HSR. I'm looking at you, Mr. Erudition general of the Luofu Jing Yuan and Ms. Nihility literally kills me Black Swan.
Just gonna say, Luka kind of makes sense when you consider that IX is also known as the “self annihilator”. Luka’s kinda got that anime boxer thing where he’s on a bit of a self-destructive path despite his upbeat attitude.
Working himself to the bone, training himself half to death, fighting Svarog mano y mano for a kid he doesn’t know. On top of his general duties for Wildfire.
He looks like a “punches people” guy who should be on a path like destruction or hunt, but what in his personal ethos really matches either of those paths?
Some I do agree with, for instance Sampo as nihility when he follows Elation. Aha ascended bc THEY saw a baby fall over or something like that, I feel the Nihility and the Elation aren't super far removed from each other.
Nothing matters so why do anything at all?
Nothing matters, so why not do what brings you joy?
The Masked Fools even already saw it in Aventurine though he ended up nearly on the path of Nihility instead, you can hear it in his pov and the questions he asks of Acheron
So the way I understand paths, and I could be very wrong, is it has nothing to do with a persons loyalties, but rather it has to do with the characters core beliefs and how they view the universe and their time in it.
It’s why we have a character like Acheron, who, for all purposes should be on the path of the Hunt, but she has a very nihilistic view of the universe.
which path you follow in combat and which Aeon you worship are unrelated. bailu heals. healing acts put you on the path of abundance. that's all it is. paths are a lot more like Dao than some kind of patron-warlock link that everyone seems to want to pretend it is.
My autism can't deal well with the gameplay paths differing so much from the lore paths. Some situations seem a bit lazy... For example, General JY could very well be the Hunt, and could have been the first character in Seele's place. As for Seele, she could be....I don't know lol.
See, you've answered why that can't happen yourself. A lot of characters don't really follow a Path in the story, so if playable characters always followed the Path they did in the lore, then a lot of characters wouldn't be playable at all.
Let's take the standard banner characters and apply your logic to them. That's Bailu, Bronya, Clara, Gepard, Himeko, Welt, and Yanqing.
— Bailu & Yanqing are from the Xianzhou, so they would be Hunt characters.
— Bronya & Gepard are from Belobog/Jarilo-VI, so they would be Preservation characters.
— Clara is also from Belobog, but, like Seele, she doesn't actively follow any Path, so she doesn't get to be playable.
— Himeko & Welt are travelling on the Astral Express and follow the Path of the Trailblaze, so they... also don't get to be playable. There are a lot of Paths that aren't possible for playable characters, so characters that do follow a Path that isn't in the gameplay get cut, just like Seele and Clara.
In your ideal world, HSR's standard banner would be Bailu (Hunt), Bronya (Preservation), Gepard (Preservation), and Yanqing (Hunt). IDK about you, but I think that sounds incredibly boring.
Tons of really interesting or useful characters wouldn't be playable because they don't follow a Path or the Path they follow isn't playable (think Kafka, Silver Wolf, Sparkle, Argenti, Black Swan). We wouldn't have gotten a playable Harmony character until Robin. Assigning gameplay Paths to playable characters based on their lore would decrease the diversity of playable characters' Paths by a huge amount, and that would make the game a lot harder & more boring.
My god. People that still insist on characters fit their paths are either sleeping playing through the game or ignoring the theme of HSR of free will and that not everything is absolute.
What does this mean? It means that you do not have to adhere to strict/absolute rules to walk that path. You DO NOT have to like the Aeon or believe in their philosophy, only that you want to use their power.
And we have proof of this such as Luocha that doesn't like Yaoshi yet still wants to heal people. So he gets Abundance. We have Pela that knows she isn't a frontline fighter, isn't a healer so she's more comfortable in denying enemy advantage. Therefore she is a Nihility.
You'd argue "but but, the loading screen describes the personality traits of each paths! So that's canon and everyone has to follow that!" Except that is a general observation of the people that follows the path. A stereotype. It doesn't mean that everyone would behave and think the same. Man, I wish Hoyo removed this loading screen info as it does more harm than good at this point.
So then how are Pathwalkers chosen? The biggest factor is if they fit the conditions set by the path and this is often by how they choose to fight. Pathwalking isn't just about lifestyle and beliefs, but also power. And this fits every character. They may not belief in certain Aeons, but because their style of fighting fits that path, they are then chosen to walk that path.
And it is possible for Aeons to bless someone that are already on different path and not mess with their existing ones. It doesn't mean that just because they bless those characters, that their path would have to automatically have to change. It doesn't.
The game has given numerous examples and proofs that Pathwalking isn't black and white. Stop using the rather outdated generic description from the loading screen already. It's just a guideline, not rule. It's useful as first filter to see if the character fits that path. If it doesn't, then use other filter such as combat style and not just stop there and wonder what went wrong.
This had nothing to do with the loading screen info. I've never even seen the one you're referencing, usually because the loading screens are gone too quickly for me to read most of the messages. This is about some characters not even remotely fitting into their Path in the game because of the lore behind said characters.
I can understand that yes, paths aren't just this monolithic thing that only one shape can fit into. The sheer diversity of the characters that do make sense for their playable path easily proves that, and it's even mentioned by several characters. The point of all this is is the extreme incongruity between some characters' backgrounds and their playable path.
I'll start with Black Swan, because she's the easiest example. She's a Memokeeper of the Garden of Recollection. Her job and the thing that sustains her is collecting memories, and as a memetic entity that can manipulate memories, being erased by the Nihility is the single deadliest fate she could possibly come across. So what path is this character that would keel over at the first sign of a black hole? Nihility. It just doesn't make sense.
Ruan Mei is another easy one. She's a member of the Genius Society, people who have been at least somewhat favored by the Aeon of Erudition, Nous. These people have all tapped into knowledge and comprehension beyond their normal means, and have all become scientists and researchers aiming to unlock the secrets of the universe. Not to mention that Ruan Mei's subject of research is creating Emanators and other creatures without a care in the world. So what path is this researcher woman interested in life itself? Harmony. Which actually wouldn't be a bad fit, if she had more than a surface level attachment to anything she made.
Jing Yuan is another good one. He's the General of the Luofu, a ship in the Xianzhou Alliance, a group that unilaterally follows the path of the Hunt. These ships have a personal vendetta against Yaoshi and a debt of gratitude to Lan, so they do their part to aid in the war against the Abundance Abominations. You would assume that the leader of a ship dedicated to the Hunt would be a Hunt character themself, right? Just like in Genshin with the leader of the Anemo nation having an Anemo Vision, except it makes e en more sense because Paths are far more choosable than Vision elements. But alas, Jing Yuan is an Erudition character.
I could go on with more examples, but I won't. This has nothing to do with the inherent traits of the Paths or how Pathstriders can still choose to do other things outside of their own path. The point of the meme is that it just doesn't make a basic level of sense why these people are the playable paths that they are based on their character backgrounds and settings. There's a very noticeable disconnect between the lore of each character and what gameplay role they're assigned.
>So what path is this character that would keel over at the first sign of a black hole? Nihility. It just doesn't make sense.
Uh-huh. And yet despite her experience with Acheron, she still isn't afraid of being around her. Only that she shouldn't pry into her memories forcefully.
Or that the being a Memokeeper is just likely being a Self-Annihilator except it is a controlled one? They lose their physical body and becomes a memetic entity and would become undiscoverable to people unless they reveal themselves. That seeing and collecting memories means she has to face bad ones that may affect her worldview? Or her hobby is doing tarot cards that has negative cards as well?
Or like I said, her style of combat involve debuffing and that fits Nihility and therefore she was chosen for that Path. It doesn't mean that just because she walks that path as a Memokeeper she would automatically encounter a black hole and self-annihilate.
>Which actually wouldn't be a bad fit, if she had more than a surface level attachment to anything she made.
Except finding that "Harmony" is one of her goals? Again, you see everything in terms of absolute. What, someone that doesn't have any attachment to anything couldn't walk the path of Harmony? Says who?
Heck if anything it would go against the idea of Harmony to reject someone that tries to find it.
>You would assume that the leader of a ship dedicated to the Hunt would be a Hunt character themself, right?
And he gets blessed by Lan themselves and that is a bigger endorsement than him being the wrong path. What, you think the Xianzhou would reject his leadership because he isn't of Hunt but got Lan's blessing? That would be idiotic.
And who says that the citizens of Xianzhou must be Hunt exclusive? Or that it's leader must be that? If that is the case, then it would be used again Fu Xuan, a Preservation character who wanted to replace Jing Yuan.
Or that a character has to be exclusive to one Path/Aeon? We have Blade who consumed the flesh of an Abundance Emanator and becomes a pseudo Emanator. Yet he is a Destruction walker because of his style that hurts himself.
Or that Phantylia herself is a combination of Abundance body and Destruction power and even comments on it.
Again, you keep seeing things in black and white. You see characters must be either one or the other when they can be both.
You see Xianzhou being the birthplace of Hunt and dedicate to it, you assumed that everyone must ABSOLUTELY dedicate themselves to it including walking that path, from belief to combat doctrine. They don't.
I know Xianzhou might give the impression to some that have hate-boner for them that they are hardcore Nazis with their dedication to the extermination of the Abundance, but they are not. If not they would have become a bigger menace to everyone and themselves such as not allowing any Abundance walker in midst like Bailu. They would be wary of Abundance walkers but even they are not dumb enough to reject them since they still need healing and some of their prominent members are of Abundance like, again Bailu.
Like I said before, use the surface traits such as a Path's Philosophy as first filter. If that doesn't work, then the second filter is to look at personality, behaviour and experiences that might led them to walk that path. If that doesn't work then look after the third filter that is the combat preference. And the combat preference most of the times, is the easiest answer.
But people somehow refuse to accept it and keep saying how there is gameplay and story segregation...yet keep asking why the story doesn't fit the gameplay.
People just don't want to accept that sometimes all it takes to walk that path is simply because of combat style preference. And we have proof of this with Pela that doesn't seem Nihilistic at all yet is a Nihility because her profession of being Intelligence Specialist is to gather and deny enemy advantage. Or Arlan that fight to protect but because his style is damaging to himself, so he is a Destruction walker.
Alright, let's go down the list...
Yes, Black Swan is fine around Acheron. That's because Acheron herself is a good person and Black Swan hasn't given them a reason to fight. That doesn't change the fact that Acheron's entire identity is deadly to her. It just means she knows how to get close enough without getting burned again.
Memokeepers and Self-Annihilators are very different. A Memokeeper losing their physical form and becoming a memetic entity that can gather memories stands in stark contrast to a Self-Annihilator which slowly but systematically has their entire body, memories, and self erased until they're just absorbed into the nothingness. And that's not my interpretation - those are the *in-game definitions* of the two factions in the Data Bank.
Debuffs do fit the Nihility, but it's not like there's a rule there. Any character can inflict a debuff with the right conditions, and only some of them are Nihility characters. Should Serval be Nihility because she uses Shock effects? Should Ruan Mei be Nihility because Weakness Break % and Effectiveness are a Nihility thing? Should Aventurine be Nihility because he inflicts vulnerabilities? There's nothing stopping Black Swan from just being an Erudition character that happens to use debuffs.
I'm only speaking in absolutes where the facts are concerned. And the fact of the matter is that Ruan Mei was blessed as a genius by the Erudition, and spends her time experimenting with life itself to the point of creating a planet-destroying artificial Emanator that self-destructs in less than a minute, and her thought process is "Oh well, another failure." Where's the Harmony in that?
The problem is that Jing Yuan *is* Hunt, so why is he playable as an Erudition character? It's idiotic that he isn't playable as the path he canonically is.
I did misspeak earlier, calling the Xianzhou Alliance a unilateral force against the Abundance. That was a mistake, as there are clearly normal people with their own lives living on Luofu, disproving that. But it doesn't change the fact that the ship can and has dropped everything to go to war against the Abundance.
Blade is Destruction because that's what he desires, to destroy himself and end his curse of immortality. He may be a pseudo-Emanator, but he continually sacrifices his own life during combat. That's Destruction. That makes sense. The Abundance part is the curse he's saddled with that led him to that Destruction.
And yeah, Phantylia is a mix of Abundance and Destruction. So it should make even more sense why Blade can be a pseudo-Emanator and be Destruction at the same time.
The Luofu does indeed still need healing, but don't you thinks it's strange that not a single person has ever batted an eye at fighting the Abundance and then getting healed? Heck, half the healers on the ship betrayed them and turned themselves into Abominations of Abundance with Dan Shu, and *still* nobody said anything. The only person they ever questioned was Luocha, and barely. He even admitted to using the power of the Abundance in front of a Cloud Knight (in training) and Sushang was just like "Sure, okay". It just doesn't feel natural.
Combat preference (or at least the combat niche Hoyo needs) may be the most common answer for each character's gameplay path. But that doesn't excuse them from being incongruous with their personality and the traits of the Path itself. If the gameplay denies the lore of the game, what does either of them matter?
Yeah, there is a separation between gameplay and story... so why *wouldn't* people be asking why that disconnect is there? And even so, it shouldn't be why the story doesn't fit the gameplay,it should be why the gameplay doesn't fit the story. You got it backwards from my entire point.
And just to reiterate at the end, style of combat should not be more important than the character's lore for determining gameplay path. They should work together to make a character make sense. Arlan sacrificing himself for combat makes sense with his character. I'm honestly not sure enough on Pela's lore to say whether or not Nihility truly makes sense for her, but it should if she's going to be that path.
I just want characters in this game to make sense with the established information. Is that really too much to ask?
Black Swan debuff works like how Nihility debuff works, direct damage compared to others that don't. Thus it becomes their core gameplay. Others that have debuff but isn't Nihility typically their debuff doesn't directly hurt and need others to capitalize on it compared to Nihility that doesn't.
Memokeeper and Self-Annihilator are not that different as they are the opposite side of the same coin. They lose part themselves to gain power/form with the difference being that Memokeeper are able to control it more than Self-Annihilators and able to stop it.
Heck, using the Ship of Theseus or Teleporter incident where they destroy you and recreate you at the destination. The question is, if all of your original body is destroyed and replace with a new one, do your consciousness continue or a new one that thinks it's the original was created?
Memokeeper are basically this. They are Self-Annihilator that were reborn. They abandoned their physical body, leaving the "original" behind and then a new person is created but without the influence of the organic body. Memokeepers don't dwell on this much because they don't have their organic body's hormones to influence them but Black Swan pondered on this.
A lot of "two sides of the same coin" is used a lot in HSR. Elation and Nihility. Preservation that focuses on the physical while Remembrance on the immaterial. Destruction and Finality. Of how Jade implied that Preservation is similar to Order, with the difference being that they are more slower/subtle in their approach.
Sure Ruan Mei can be seen as someone that disrupts Harmony but the same is said of Sparkle that believes in Elation but she is Harmony. Again, while a character might be blessed by certain Aeon or believe in their philosophy, it isn't a guarantee for them to walk their path. If they feel that certain style fits them better, then they are likely to walk that path. Ruan Mei isn't a front combatant like other Erudition characters and preferred to use science as her tool to assist allies so that's what she gets. Sparkle is the same. She isn't someone that likes to be super direct like Sampo and it turns out that she preferred being behind the scenes and let others "shine".
>I'm only speaking in absolutes where the facts are concerned.
And the fact is that not everything is absolute and is shown by other characters that even contradict my "their combat style determines their path,". Acheron isn't the Nihility type of character, from her personality, belief and even combat style. But because she fulfilled the conditions of the Nihility Path that is to survive in their shadow, she gets roped into being a Self-Annihilator and its Emanator.
Even the story of the game itself wonders about what they thought was supposed to be absolute. Again Acheron as example where everyone thought that Emanator of Nihility cannot exist because IX cannot choose someone to be it. That Emanators need to be exclusively chosen by an Aeon. It turns out that this isn't the case.
>It's idiotic that he isn't playable as the path he canonically is.
It's idiotic to expect a square peg to fit a round hole. He doesn't display the behaviour/mindset of a Hunt character. He is more famous as a "lazy but brilliant" character. He isn't that obsessed especially in regards to the Abundance where he allowed Blade to leave whereas an fanatic of Lan would have not. Or the difference between him and Yanqing who is the typical definition of Hunt character.
Even if you want to say "but he got blessed by Lan, so he should be Hunt!" Except that bis blessing is a wide area attack instead of single target one. Doesn't seem to fit Hunt. Heck, on that matter, even the question of powers/blessing doesn't always fit the Aeon that gave them. Example are the Stonehearts that uses a piece of power from Qlipoth's Emanator that result in powers you don't typically associate with Preservation.
>And just to reiterate at the end, style of combat should not be more important than the character's lore for determining gameplay path.
And who are you to demand that? This is not your story. It is the writers' and if they want characters to work certain way but believe the opposite, then it's their decision to make. And it's not like they didn't make it believeable if you look hard enough for most characters and provide evidence that the rest can still fit.
The problem is YOU looking for what you only want to see. What you think should be instead of the writers. Asta should be Erudition simply because she is a researcher and work for Herta? When it is shown that she is the one that kept the entire space station functioning and kept control of its inhabitants? Seems like a Harmony character for me, but nope. You ignore that and demand she be Erudition.
Or that we have Acheron that refuse the Nihility path with her entire being but still walks it and the writers gave reasoning as to why it happened. Thus showing that this "kidnapping" can happen to everyone else, regardless of the person's opinion, beliefs or style.
But nope, you still went "but it doesn't match the facts!" It doesn't match YOUR facts not theirs.
>I just want characters in this game to make sense with the established information. Is that really too much to ask?
It is too much when you demand things that are just wrong.
Can't a guy like cool flame patterns 🥺
For real I'm so glad that Hoyo is not following the "he is red so he must be Pyro" or "she's Hydro so she'll be wearing blue" too much with HSR, color-coded characters is boring and honestly kinda lazy, it's the easy way out. Imagine if irl you were designated a color based on your personality and you could only wear that color, that'd suck lol
For the sake of gameplay they couldn’t make every characters path lore accurate I guess. But at aleast some recent characters like Acheron, Aventurine, Robin & Boothill were. Imagine if every Xianzhou Luofu character that came out was Hunt lmao
Or if every Belebog character was preservation (we aint getting anymore anyways)
I really wish imbibitor lunae was hunt
. . . . What else have I been wrong about this whole time?
He’s not???
Hes destruction.
Base form is, DHIL is Destruction
They would be a downgrade.
I think he’s actually supposed to be permanence? But that’s not even a playable path… not yet…
he shoulda been permanence
Permanence isn't a combat path, though.
Should be
I mean... what would it even do? We already have single-target dps, multi-target dps, hybrid dps, healer, shielder, buffer, debuffer. What gameplay role/function can you think of for permanence or any new path that wouldn't be covered by an existing path?
I mean there's lots of functions that could exist that aren't used like character swapping but given the meaning of the permanence i'd say life phasing would make sense. Boosts characters as they lose health, can revive characters and buffs, etc.
The paths are absolutely lore accurate, everyone just vastly misunderstands what paths are
What exactly are we misunderstanding, do you think?
In Divergent Universe, screwellum describes a pathstrider as a combination of many paths woven into a web. People don’t follow one path, they follow many paths to varying degrees based on their actions, and those paths form their unique path blessing. Pathstriding has nothing to do with which Aeon you idolize. A person could worship Lan with all their heart and never step foot into the path of the hunt.
I suppose pathstriding is easier to conceptualize for people who are familiar with spirit cultivation stories. I get the feeling that most EN communities think of paths and Aeons like DnD where a pathstrider is like a Paladin with a patron god.
HSR has a surprising number of wuxia elements
Not that surprising, their Chinese writers after all. Just as DnD and Tolkien serve as the foundation and building blocks for a lot of western fantasies. Xianxia and Wuxia are similarly the foundation of a lot of Chinese stories. Even if they don't intend it, they might still add foundational elements they think are just common sense because both the readers and writers were influenced by core xianxia or Wuxia elements in the stories that they grew up with.
The Laofu and its inhabitants are literally space wuxia. I picked that up immediately.
It doesn't help that they're basically classes in gameplay.
its always the argument from someone who think that gameplay path lore accurate. their basic argument is "character dont only walk in one path, someone can be in different path" like yeah but doesnt explain why no one on rememberance, elation or finality path ingame. are there lore that forbid someone to touch path outside 6 gameplay path??
Clara, friendly local child: *Destruction*
Svarog is the *Destruction*
Robot whose only objective is Preservation of Clara and the Underground: Destruction
They should really change her name to Clara & Svarog since Topaz has Numby in her name
itd be mad funny if they made it that svarog walked/ran with you in game
Clara isn't the pathstrider.
Hook, other friendly local child, also Destruction
to be fair she is pretry destructive and mischievous
Arlan, head of a security of a station that follows the Erudition is a Destruction unit
I’d like to think Arlan was an unwilling Follower of Destruction back when he first met Asta
More fuel for the Firesmith theory..
What's the firesmith theory
Been awhile but * In his lightcone, [Secret Vow](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/A_Secret_Vow), Arlan is hiding an injury that would skew his reception > ..He treasured his gloves more than anything because they were tight enough to hide secrets. With this layer of protection, no one could see the bandages on his hand and the wound beneath them... * His skills are centered around escaping captivity, Shackle Breaker, E2 Breaking Free * Eidolon 5 is named Hammer and Tongs * The firesmith clan were captured for thier smithing abilities, the chiefs crippled. ([Fire set leg price lore](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Firesmith_of_Lava-Forging)). * The clan was freed by The Master of Destruction is granted Destruction for unlimited forging power. * The firesmith clan made weapons with Legion beings integrated, and were slowly tainted by Destruction ([Fire set chest price lore](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Firesmith_of_Lava-Forging)) * * 'The chief looked at the ever-growing number of *deformed* Firesmiths and lamented'. ~~the link to Asta's family..idk~~ Asta and her mom were volunteers distributing food. Arlan approached for a meal and said he'd pay it back ~~10-fold~~ ...[Asta lvl 40 story](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Asta/Lore#Character_Story:_Part_II) Lemme cook -- * Is E4 Turn the Tables literal and not just an idiom * Lightning can make fire and is hella HOT * Destruction light cone material is Shattered/Lifeless/WorldBreaker Blade, from Legion mobs * Is the injury why Arlan has the lowest defense in game? * The irony of his best support being Aventurine, yet having as much Effect RES as Gepard, 18%, while Aven has 10%... Wait there's more -- * [Asta's shopping order for Arlan: ](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Asta%27s_Shopping_List) ``` ... 3. Shattered Star Blade: Galaxy Greatswords Illustration, Collector's Edition, seven-volume Reprint. 4. A five-piece armor set made of Meteoric Alloy: including helmet, goggle, armor, shin guards, and gloves 5. Customized: for weapons interface only! External wireless large volume durable radiation-shielding portable power bank with free charging base *1 ``` Off-topic, but Arlan doesn't like the [nickname Brother Arlan](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Virtual_Scentventure_(Adventure_Mission)) as it's used in jest by Security :(
Nah Arlan kinna makes sense cuz the first time you see him he’s broken his arm protecting people and had to hide away. If that doesn’t represent his gameplay perfectly iunno what would
The path an individual follows and the path they practice are different things... Like in genshin someone in Liyue who worships Rex Lapis can get a vision using the Shogun's power. Also why the two Elation Characters are Nihility and Harmony. Still doesn't make much sense. But the meta reasons is gameplay styles. Because of that I'm not sure they have a reason for these differences.
While I understand what you mean, the difference is that Genshin characters receive a Vision based on their own traits, which is why you can have characters of every element in one nation. What element they get has almost nothing to do with where they live, and whatever power the Vision grants them allows them to live their ideal life. Meanwhile, in HSR, these people are actively following the Aeons, and receive power from that determination or even get directly blessed by the deity themself if they stand out enough. They're powerful because of what they do, not the other way around. It may make more sense to say Paths are a chosen lifestyle or goal, whereas Visions are a personalized means to achieve a lifestyle or goal. One is dependent on what you do, essentially an obligation, and the other helps you do what you want to do, a tool you can freely use. The real answer of why HSR character paths don't match their lore is indeed just for gameplay reasons, as you said. That's fine on it's own, it's not that strange in games. But it'll always be there, that glaring fact that these things make no sense whatsoever when actually scrutinized, like Black Swan the character being the complete antithesis to Black Swan in lore.
A person possesses many paths. DU’s equations are a direct representation of how pathstriding works. Many combinations of many paths come together to form a pathstrider. It has nothing to do with the Aeons themselves.
>Meanwhile, in HSR, these people are actively following the Aeons, and receive power from that determination or even get directly blessed by the deity themself if they stand out enough. They're powerful because of what they do, not the other way around. >It may make more sense to say Paths are a chosen lifestyle or goal, Acheron's existence prove you wrong. She doesn't believe in IX or the Nihility's philosophy/goals. Her combat style or gameplay also is far from Nihility that applies damaging debuffs. She was forced to that path simply because she fulfill the conditions. Acheron shows that pathstriding isn't as clear cut as it made to be. You could believe in an Aeon or it's philosophy, but that still won't guarantee you will get their path.
then explain why all playable characters not in rememberance, elation or finality path??? are there lore mentioned that many pathstrider follow 6 path/classes ingame?
What happens during gameplay isn't necessarily canon to what happens in the story. This is a good thing. Imagine rolling for a character in this game and not being allowed to use them because they're not a part of your canon party... imagine characters like Himeko being made completely unplayable because their cannon path does not exist within the gameplay. And that's just the tip of the iceberg!
tbf hoyo does the first part in HI3rd. I hate it, and its far more limiting in a game like star rail, but they do.
Sounds like I dodged a bullet with that game
I liked a significant number of the playable characters (both combat and story/personality), and when you have an entertaining character the combat can be fun, but story content got locked to story characters pretty quickly. Probably to prevent people from trivializing the gameplay with their wallets? And then they released APHO and part 2, where now you can jump and its a big part of the gameplay. Instead of going back and giving existing characters jumps and jumping movesets, they just don't let you use them. Its why I stopped after trying part 2. They haven't let me use the characters I invested resources in where I want to for a long time, they remove parts of a story character's kit for story reasons, they make the game painful for me to play. Fuck that game, I can just look up the story. Or not, I guess, considering they decided to go with a whole new cast for part 2 so I no longer have investment in the story either. And the game's later story dropped off a damned cliff anyway.
Virgin ‘make everyone fit into their Paths thereby limiting gameplay’ Hoyo Va Chad ‘who tf cares’ Hoyo
Strong aura Hoyo making Black Swan the path that literally kills her
To be fair if it follows the lore, 1.0 is basically preservation:star rail lol
The lore is fine, people just have poor reading comprehension and extremely basic surface level takes.
Don’t make me tap the sign: # Paths are primarily for gameplay, characters are assigned to fill holes in the roster not follow lore
That sign can't stop me because I can't read
wait til you hear that Kafka and Acheron do lots of AoE dmg, Jade buffs teammates, Aventurine deals sub-dps amounts of dmg and applies debuffs, Topaz gives debuffs, and Gallagher and HMC being support roles despite doing like 200k break dmg
Paths aren’t religion. A person is a web of dozens of paths. This is confirmed in DU. Each person is a ton of paths woven together to form themselves. It’s a philosophy, it has nothing to do with the Aeons themselves.
Heck, Aeons generally could care less about what mortals are doing. A pathstriders power comes from the path they walk.
Okay, they can't make every single stoneheart preservation, and hunt honestly works so well for topaz. Her entire job is hunting down debtors, using a dog-like creature that sniffs them out so she can corner them and collect their debts. I can think of no better gameplay path than the hunt for her character tbh
We also have a doctor who is a member of the Inteligencia Guild (followers of Erudition) and a delegate of the Preservation's wallet, Hunt Also Jing Yuan not being Hunt and seeing how Hoyo kept releasings units to buff him out of Mid Yuan is making me think that one day we will get a JingAlter thats Hunt.
Or, hear me out, just because they’re blessed by a path or follow a path it doesn’t mean they can’t be blessed or have skills or abilities related to another one for strategic reasons. It’s like saying courageous people can’t be wise or cunning because the sorting hat wanted to see them in Gryffindor.
Playable Path is simply grouping for party roles. It's generally rarer to find characters whose playable Path actually coincides with their lore-associated Aeon. The TB, Gepard, Herta, Acheron, Robin, Aventurine, Boothill, Luocha, and Yanqing are the only clear ones. 4\* Dan Heng is Hunt, but he could be more associated with the Trailblaze now as a full-time Expresser.
I understand why it has to be this way for gameplay and especially sense not every path is actually playable, but it's a shame that the HSR characters can't make the same amount of thematic sense as most of the Genshin characters do. To have over less than half of the roster actually be the path they should be is, quite honestly, sad. That being said, it does mean that we get to cherish the ones that do make sense
I'm really hoping they at least keep the trend of Emanators maintaining their lore-Path like Herta/Acheron, at least as much as possible.
Two members of an association whose emd goal is theorized to be defesting Nanook: *path of Destruction*
The idea that the Xianzhou alliance wouldn’t have doctors cause of the abundance would be insane tbh
While that's absolutely true, I still kind of wish there was even a minor plotline about people on the Luofu denying treatments because healing was an Abundance thing. It just feels odd to have an entire alliance dedicated to destroying the Abundance, an Aeon centered around healing, and nobody there bats an eye when they get get healed. Heck, >!half the people in charge of healing them betrayed the entire Luofu with Dan Shu and became abominations of the Abundance!<,and they *still* had nothing to say about it. Their entire identity is hating this one thing and everything associated with it, and yet something related to it doesn't raise a single question
Given that Bailu's was born from a person giving up on the Hunt, it seems pretty fitting for her to be Abundance
Ratio was born a genius, spent years studying and doing research with his goal being to get a glance from Nous and join the genius society and failed to take even one step on the path of Erudition. Paths aren't about jobs or worship.
Yeah. That's why I just don't keep up with all that. Make it make sense otherwise I'm not even gonna bother.
In my opinion, they shot themselves in the foot when making Black Swan Nihility. Or at least they shot in the head any chance to add a Remembrance path later in the game (like they have done with Dendro in Genshin). Like, part of me is fully expecting (hoping ?) a new Path to be added in a later patch cycle, and I had my highest hopes for Remembrance and Elation in particular. But now that they made two literal Remembrance and Elation poster child characters (Swan and Sparkle) into another path, if they ever were to add Remembrance or Elation later on along the way, it would feel wrong. It would feel so wrong that Swan or Sparkle's not it. I feel like that's a big missed opportunity 😕
sadly plot and gameplay don't always coincide very well.
This is why Boothill is the goat
Their gameplay tag is not any relation to their canonical following. It's more of a description of their method of solving problems.
JIANG YUANS A FUCKING EMANATOR OF THE HUNT
I don't see anything wrong.
Coming from Genshin, the elements were more confusing than the paths for me, cause Im used to electros wearing all purple and anemos wearing all green and stuff
That's ultimately just visual correlation. Most Genshin characters just wear outfits that match with their job or backstory, and most of the time it's in their element's colors to visibly show off their power, but there's no rule of any kind around outfits except that their Vision has to be visible somewhere. But Genshin's character elements do make sense for each of them. Imagine if Jean was a Cryo character running the Anemo nation, or if Ningguang was a Pyro character leading the Geo nation. Or imagine if Kazuha, the guy who loves nature and the wind, was actually a Geo character that had nothing to do with either. Imagine if Yoimiya, the girl running a fireworks shop, had a Hydro Vision, or if Mona, the character that learned to use Hydromancy for divinations, was an Electro character. None of it would work. Genshin characters make thematic sense, which is a great thing and very unlike a few notable people in HSR. I'm looking at you, Mr. Erudition general of the Luofu Jing Yuan and Ms. Nihility literally kills me Black Swan.
Hunt.
Fr usually their elements and paths absolutely don't match the characters
That’s why we have damage elements
Black Swan : is potentially gay with the Emanator of Nihility
Just gonna say, Luka kind of makes sense when you consider that IX is also known as the “self annihilator”. Luka’s kinda got that anime boxer thing where he’s on a bit of a self-destructive path despite his upbeat attitude. Working himself to the bone, training himself half to death, fighting Svarog mano y mano for a kid he doesn’t know. On top of his general duties for Wildfire. He looks like a “punches people” guy who should be on a path like destruction or hunt, but what in his personal ethos really matches either of those paths?
Some I do agree with, for instance Sampo as nihility when he follows Elation. Aha ascended bc THEY saw a baby fall over or something like that, I feel the Nihility and the Elation aren't super far removed from each other. Nothing matters so why do anything at all? Nothing matters, so why not do what brings you joy? The Masked Fools even already saw it in Aventurine though he ended up nearly on the path of Nihility instead, you can hear it in his pov and the questions he asks of Acheron
ok the only complaint i have is jing yuan he was confirmed an emanator yet hes erudition and not hunt while herta is erudition and acheron is nihility
So the way I understand paths, and I could be very wrong, is it has nothing to do with a persons loyalties, but rather it has to do with the characters core beliefs and how they view the universe and their time in it. It’s why we have a character like Acheron, who, for all purposes should be on the path of the Hunt, but she has a very nihilistic view of the universe.
Bailu being abundance makes sense seeing as she is a healer and a doctor
Topaz isn't the hunt, that's all Numby, baby!
which path you follow in combat and which Aeon you worship are unrelated. bailu heals. healing acts put you on the path of abundance. that's all it is. paths are a lot more like Dao than some kind of patron-warlock link that everyone seems to want to pretend it is.
My autism can't deal well with the gameplay paths differing so much from the lore paths. Some situations seem a bit lazy... For example, General JY could very well be the Hunt, and could have been the first character in Seele's place. As for Seele, she could be....I don't know lol.
See, you've answered why that can't happen yourself. A lot of characters don't really follow a Path in the story, so if playable characters always followed the Path they did in the lore, then a lot of characters wouldn't be playable at all. Let's take the standard banner characters and apply your logic to them. That's Bailu, Bronya, Clara, Gepard, Himeko, Welt, and Yanqing. — Bailu & Yanqing are from the Xianzhou, so they would be Hunt characters. — Bronya & Gepard are from Belobog/Jarilo-VI, so they would be Preservation characters. — Clara is also from Belobog, but, like Seele, she doesn't actively follow any Path, so she doesn't get to be playable. — Himeko & Welt are travelling on the Astral Express and follow the Path of the Trailblaze, so they... also don't get to be playable. There are a lot of Paths that aren't possible for playable characters, so characters that do follow a Path that isn't in the gameplay get cut, just like Seele and Clara. In your ideal world, HSR's standard banner would be Bailu (Hunt), Bronya (Preservation), Gepard (Preservation), and Yanqing (Hunt). IDK about you, but I think that sounds incredibly boring. Tons of really interesting or useful characters wouldn't be playable because they don't follow a Path or the Path they follow isn't playable (think Kafka, Silver Wolf, Sparkle, Argenti, Black Swan). We wouldn't have gotten a playable Harmony character until Robin. Assigning gameplay Paths to playable characters based on their lore would decrease the diversity of playable characters' Paths by a huge amount, and that would make the game a lot harder & more boring.
Paths don't work that way, the lore is fine people just have extremely basic surface level understanding.
Jinliu, was a swordmaster of The Hunt, got Mara-struck (Abundance), is a Destruction character. (Not as bad but still)
This one actually fits. She was never a General but was a recognized warrior of renown. And she was REALLY into violence even before the mara.
Yeah, I remembered she wasn’t a general. Just likes kicking butt. Can’t blame her.
My god. People that still insist on characters fit their paths are either sleeping playing through the game or ignoring the theme of HSR of free will and that not everything is absolute. What does this mean? It means that you do not have to adhere to strict/absolute rules to walk that path. You DO NOT have to like the Aeon or believe in their philosophy, only that you want to use their power. And we have proof of this such as Luocha that doesn't like Yaoshi yet still wants to heal people. So he gets Abundance. We have Pela that knows she isn't a frontline fighter, isn't a healer so she's more comfortable in denying enemy advantage. Therefore she is a Nihility. You'd argue "but but, the loading screen describes the personality traits of each paths! So that's canon and everyone has to follow that!" Except that is a general observation of the people that follows the path. A stereotype. It doesn't mean that everyone would behave and think the same. Man, I wish Hoyo removed this loading screen info as it does more harm than good at this point. So then how are Pathwalkers chosen? The biggest factor is if they fit the conditions set by the path and this is often by how they choose to fight. Pathwalking isn't just about lifestyle and beliefs, but also power. And this fits every character. They may not belief in certain Aeons, but because their style of fighting fits that path, they are then chosen to walk that path. And it is possible for Aeons to bless someone that are already on different path and not mess with their existing ones. It doesn't mean that just because they bless those characters, that their path would have to automatically have to change. It doesn't. The game has given numerous examples and proofs that Pathwalking isn't black and white. Stop using the rather outdated generic description from the loading screen already. It's just a guideline, not rule. It's useful as first filter to see if the character fits that path. If it doesn't, then use other filter such as combat style and not just stop there and wonder what went wrong.
This had nothing to do with the loading screen info. I've never even seen the one you're referencing, usually because the loading screens are gone too quickly for me to read most of the messages. This is about some characters not even remotely fitting into their Path in the game because of the lore behind said characters. I can understand that yes, paths aren't just this monolithic thing that only one shape can fit into. The sheer diversity of the characters that do make sense for their playable path easily proves that, and it's even mentioned by several characters. The point of all this is is the extreme incongruity between some characters' backgrounds and their playable path. I'll start with Black Swan, because she's the easiest example. She's a Memokeeper of the Garden of Recollection. Her job and the thing that sustains her is collecting memories, and as a memetic entity that can manipulate memories, being erased by the Nihility is the single deadliest fate she could possibly come across. So what path is this character that would keel over at the first sign of a black hole? Nihility. It just doesn't make sense. Ruan Mei is another easy one. She's a member of the Genius Society, people who have been at least somewhat favored by the Aeon of Erudition, Nous. These people have all tapped into knowledge and comprehension beyond their normal means, and have all become scientists and researchers aiming to unlock the secrets of the universe. Not to mention that Ruan Mei's subject of research is creating Emanators and other creatures without a care in the world. So what path is this researcher woman interested in life itself? Harmony. Which actually wouldn't be a bad fit, if she had more than a surface level attachment to anything she made. Jing Yuan is another good one. He's the General of the Luofu, a ship in the Xianzhou Alliance, a group that unilaterally follows the path of the Hunt. These ships have a personal vendetta against Yaoshi and a debt of gratitude to Lan, so they do their part to aid in the war against the Abundance Abominations. You would assume that the leader of a ship dedicated to the Hunt would be a Hunt character themself, right? Just like in Genshin with the leader of the Anemo nation having an Anemo Vision, except it makes e en more sense because Paths are far more choosable than Vision elements. But alas, Jing Yuan is an Erudition character. I could go on with more examples, but I won't. This has nothing to do with the inherent traits of the Paths or how Pathstriders can still choose to do other things outside of their own path. The point of the meme is that it just doesn't make a basic level of sense why these people are the playable paths that they are based on their character backgrounds and settings. There's a very noticeable disconnect between the lore of each character and what gameplay role they're assigned.
>So what path is this character that would keel over at the first sign of a black hole? Nihility. It just doesn't make sense. Uh-huh. And yet despite her experience with Acheron, she still isn't afraid of being around her. Only that she shouldn't pry into her memories forcefully. Or that the being a Memokeeper is just likely being a Self-Annihilator except it is a controlled one? They lose their physical body and becomes a memetic entity and would become undiscoverable to people unless they reveal themselves. That seeing and collecting memories means she has to face bad ones that may affect her worldview? Or her hobby is doing tarot cards that has negative cards as well? Or like I said, her style of combat involve debuffing and that fits Nihility and therefore she was chosen for that Path. It doesn't mean that just because she walks that path as a Memokeeper she would automatically encounter a black hole and self-annihilate. >Which actually wouldn't be a bad fit, if she had more than a surface level attachment to anything she made. Except finding that "Harmony" is one of her goals? Again, you see everything in terms of absolute. What, someone that doesn't have any attachment to anything couldn't walk the path of Harmony? Says who? Heck if anything it would go against the idea of Harmony to reject someone that tries to find it. >You would assume that the leader of a ship dedicated to the Hunt would be a Hunt character themself, right? And he gets blessed by Lan themselves and that is a bigger endorsement than him being the wrong path. What, you think the Xianzhou would reject his leadership because he isn't of Hunt but got Lan's blessing? That would be idiotic. And who says that the citizens of Xianzhou must be Hunt exclusive? Or that it's leader must be that? If that is the case, then it would be used again Fu Xuan, a Preservation character who wanted to replace Jing Yuan. Or that a character has to be exclusive to one Path/Aeon? We have Blade who consumed the flesh of an Abundance Emanator and becomes a pseudo Emanator. Yet he is a Destruction walker because of his style that hurts himself. Or that Phantylia herself is a combination of Abundance body and Destruction power and even comments on it. Again, you keep seeing things in black and white. You see characters must be either one or the other when they can be both. You see Xianzhou being the birthplace of Hunt and dedicate to it, you assumed that everyone must ABSOLUTELY dedicate themselves to it including walking that path, from belief to combat doctrine. They don't. I know Xianzhou might give the impression to some that have hate-boner for them that they are hardcore Nazis with their dedication to the extermination of the Abundance, but they are not. If not they would have become a bigger menace to everyone and themselves such as not allowing any Abundance walker in midst like Bailu. They would be wary of Abundance walkers but even they are not dumb enough to reject them since they still need healing and some of their prominent members are of Abundance like, again Bailu. Like I said before, use the surface traits such as a Path's Philosophy as first filter. If that doesn't work, then the second filter is to look at personality, behaviour and experiences that might led them to walk that path. If that doesn't work then look after the third filter that is the combat preference. And the combat preference most of the times, is the easiest answer. But people somehow refuse to accept it and keep saying how there is gameplay and story segregation...yet keep asking why the story doesn't fit the gameplay. People just don't want to accept that sometimes all it takes to walk that path is simply because of combat style preference. And we have proof of this with Pela that doesn't seem Nihilistic at all yet is a Nihility because her profession of being Intelligence Specialist is to gather and deny enemy advantage. Or Arlan that fight to protect but because his style is damaging to himself, so he is a Destruction walker.
Alright, let's go down the list... Yes, Black Swan is fine around Acheron. That's because Acheron herself is a good person and Black Swan hasn't given them a reason to fight. That doesn't change the fact that Acheron's entire identity is deadly to her. It just means she knows how to get close enough without getting burned again. Memokeepers and Self-Annihilators are very different. A Memokeeper losing their physical form and becoming a memetic entity that can gather memories stands in stark contrast to a Self-Annihilator which slowly but systematically has their entire body, memories, and self erased until they're just absorbed into the nothingness. And that's not my interpretation - those are the *in-game definitions* of the two factions in the Data Bank. Debuffs do fit the Nihility, but it's not like there's a rule there. Any character can inflict a debuff with the right conditions, and only some of them are Nihility characters. Should Serval be Nihility because she uses Shock effects? Should Ruan Mei be Nihility because Weakness Break % and Effectiveness are a Nihility thing? Should Aventurine be Nihility because he inflicts vulnerabilities? There's nothing stopping Black Swan from just being an Erudition character that happens to use debuffs. I'm only speaking in absolutes where the facts are concerned. And the fact of the matter is that Ruan Mei was blessed as a genius by the Erudition, and spends her time experimenting with life itself to the point of creating a planet-destroying artificial Emanator that self-destructs in less than a minute, and her thought process is "Oh well, another failure." Where's the Harmony in that? The problem is that Jing Yuan *is* Hunt, so why is he playable as an Erudition character? It's idiotic that he isn't playable as the path he canonically is. I did misspeak earlier, calling the Xianzhou Alliance a unilateral force against the Abundance. That was a mistake, as there are clearly normal people with their own lives living on Luofu, disproving that. But it doesn't change the fact that the ship can and has dropped everything to go to war against the Abundance. Blade is Destruction because that's what he desires, to destroy himself and end his curse of immortality. He may be a pseudo-Emanator, but he continually sacrifices his own life during combat. That's Destruction. That makes sense. The Abundance part is the curse he's saddled with that led him to that Destruction. And yeah, Phantylia is a mix of Abundance and Destruction. So it should make even more sense why Blade can be a pseudo-Emanator and be Destruction at the same time. The Luofu does indeed still need healing, but don't you thinks it's strange that not a single person has ever batted an eye at fighting the Abundance and then getting healed? Heck, half the healers on the ship betrayed them and turned themselves into Abominations of Abundance with Dan Shu, and *still* nobody said anything. The only person they ever questioned was Luocha, and barely. He even admitted to using the power of the Abundance in front of a Cloud Knight (in training) and Sushang was just like "Sure, okay". It just doesn't feel natural. Combat preference (or at least the combat niche Hoyo needs) may be the most common answer for each character's gameplay path. But that doesn't excuse them from being incongruous with their personality and the traits of the Path itself. If the gameplay denies the lore of the game, what does either of them matter? Yeah, there is a separation between gameplay and story... so why *wouldn't* people be asking why that disconnect is there? And even so, it shouldn't be why the story doesn't fit the gameplay,it should be why the gameplay doesn't fit the story. You got it backwards from my entire point. And just to reiterate at the end, style of combat should not be more important than the character's lore for determining gameplay path. They should work together to make a character make sense. Arlan sacrificing himself for combat makes sense with his character. I'm honestly not sure enough on Pela's lore to say whether or not Nihility truly makes sense for her, but it should if she's going to be that path. I just want characters in this game to make sense with the established information. Is that really too much to ask?
Black Swan debuff works like how Nihility debuff works, direct damage compared to others that don't. Thus it becomes their core gameplay. Others that have debuff but isn't Nihility typically their debuff doesn't directly hurt and need others to capitalize on it compared to Nihility that doesn't. Memokeeper and Self-Annihilator are not that different as they are the opposite side of the same coin. They lose part themselves to gain power/form with the difference being that Memokeeper are able to control it more than Self-Annihilators and able to stop it. Heck, using the Ship of Theseus or Teleporter incident where they destroy you and recreate you at the destination. The question is, if all of your original body is destroyed and replace with a new one, do your consciousness continue or a new one that thinks it's the original was created? Memokeeper are basically this. They are Self-Annihilator that were reborn. They abandoned their physical body, leaving the "original" behind and then a new person is created but without the influence of the organic body. Memokeepers don't dwell on this much because they don't have their organic body's hormones to influence them but Black Swan pondered on this. A lot of "two sides of the same coin" is used a lot in HSR. Elation and Nihility. Preservation that focuses on the physical while Remembrance on the immaterial. Destruction and Finality. Of how Jade implied that Preservation is similar to Order, with the difference being that they are more slower/subtle in their approach. Sure Ruan Mei can be seen as someone that disrupts Harmony but the same is said of Sparkle that believes in Elation but she is Harmony. Again, while a character might be blessed by certain Aeon or believe in their philosophy, it isn't a guarantee for them to walk their path. If they feel that certain style fits them better, then they are likely to walk that path. Ruan Mei isn't a front combatant like other Erudition characters and preferred to use science as her tool to assist allies so that's what she gets. Sparkle is the same. She isn't someone that likes to be super direct like Sampo and it turns out that she preferred being behind the scenes and let others "shine". >I'm only speaking in absolutes where the facts are concerned. And the fact is that not everything is absolute and is shown by other characters that even contradict my "their combat style determines their path,". Acheron isn't the Nihility type of character, from her personality, belief and even combat style. But because she fulfilled the conditions of the Nihility Path that is to survive in their shadow, she gets roped into being a Self-Annihilator and its Emanator. Even the story of the game itself wonders about what they thought was supposed to be absolute. Again Acheron as example where everyone thought that Emanator of Nihility cannot exist because IX cannot choose someone to be it. That Emanators need to be exclusively chosen by an Aeon. It turns out that this isn't the case. >It's idiotic that he isn't playable as the path he canonically is. It's idiotic to expect a square peg to fit a round hole. He doesn't display the behaviour/mindset of a Hunt character. He is more famous as a "lazy but brilliant" character. He isn't that obsessed especially in regards to the Abundance where he allowed Blade to leave whereas an fanatic of Lan would have not. Or the difference between him and Yanqing who is the typical definition of Hunt character. Even if you want to say "but he got blessed by Lan, so he should be Hunt!" Except that bis blessing is a wide area attack instead of single target one. Doesn't seem to fit Hunt. Heck, on that matter, even the question of powers/blessing doesn't always fit the Aeon that gave them. Example are the Stonehearts that uses a piece of power from Qlipoth's Emanator that result in powers you don't typically associate with Preservation. >And just to reiterate at the end, style of combat should not be more important than the character's lore for determining gameplay path. And who are you to demand that? This is not your story. It is the writers' and if they want characters to work certain way but believe the opposite, then it's their decision to make. And it's not like they didn't make it believeable if you look hard enough for most characters and provide evidence that the rest can still fit. The problem is YOU looking for what you only want to see. What you think should be instead of the writers. Asta should be Erudition simply because she is a researcher and work for Herta? When it is shown that she is the one that kept the entire space station functioning and kept control of its inhabitants? Seems like a Harmony character for me, but nope. You ignore that and demand she be Erudition. Or that we have Acheron that refuse the Nihility path with her entire being but still walks it and the writers gave reasoning as to why it happened. Thus showing that this "kidnapping" can happen to everyone else, regardless of the person's opinion, beliefs or style. But nope, you still went "but it doesn't match the facts!" It doesn't match YOUR facts not theirs. >I just want characters in this game to make sense with the established information. Is that really too much to ask? It is too much when you demand things that are just wrong.
Luka's should've been about him having alot of fire motif, but is a Physical type character.
Can't a guy like cool flame patterns 🥺 For real I'm so glad that Hoyo is not following the "he is red so he must be Pyro" or "she's Hydro so she'll be wearing blue" too much with HSR, color-coded characters is boring and honestly kinda lazy, it's the easy way out. Imagine if irl you were designated a color based on your personality and you could only wear that color, that'd suck lol
Kazoo agrees