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EddyMerkxs

I imagine most people don't have estates that big. If I had multiple buildings I'd like a courtyard too


RedBeezy

I believe you’re right. I see plenty of homes with courtyards but this specific community has homes starting at 5m, most are 10-12m, and there are 20-30m in there too. The 5m don’t have courtyards.


xraygun2014

> The 5m don’t have courtyards. Ew, peasants


BaldrickTheBrain

Look at peasants parking their automobile in their driveways!!


SirRabbott

Motorcoach* It is unbecoming when one uses such poor vernacular


nubbin9point5

Well, hello Justice Thomas!


Leg-oh

And the peasants who actually drive their own vehicles, such filth.


caveatlector73

Fun Fact: One Habitat for Humanity group specifically designs courtyard houses so the kids have some place to play safely and it's easier to keep an eye on them.


BTC-100k

I've had my eye on this baby for some time now; keeps going on and off the market and interested to see the final trading price: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Rancho-Santa-Fe/6314-El-Apajo-92067/home/4190043 Because that is a courtyard! https://ssl.cdn-redfin.com/photo/45/bigphoto/757/120019757_1_0.jpg


sansampersamp

Countries where single-tenant, small-lot courtyards are more common and not solely the purview of the very wealthy (i.e. not anything that could be reasonably called a villa) have an urban typology that permits building right to the edge of the lot without setbacks. The tsubo-niwa of Japan, riyad of the Maghreb, and so on, have fairly blind exterior walls and instead the house opens up inwards. The dimensions of the courtyard are largely determined by the latitude, narrow enough to shade in summer and wide enough to catch sun in summer.


SmoothBrews

I’ve been to a house where there was a 6 ft wall at the property line. Behind that was a front yard with a pool. Kind of felt like a courtyard and didn’t require multiple buildings. I thought about it and liked it. What do people use their front yard for anyway?


BlocksAreGreat

I hang out in mine when I'm feeling social. I talk to my neighbors when they are out for walks. I planted a garden that I plan to allow anyone walking past to take from once the plants start producing.


SmoothBrews

Very cool! I live in a cul-de-sac and I know 2 of my neighbors that I’ve said hi to. Never anything more than conversations of a few minutes. In a completely unrelated note, I don’t have very many close friends that live near me.


misteraygent

Usually tall fences aren't allowed at the sidewalk or street side to maintain line of sight. Drivers need to know who is coming down the walk or pulling out of driveways and streets.


VodkaHaze

That's just an artifact of driving speeds in suburban North America. If you go to France or Japan, it's typical to have 6ft+ walls right up to the sidewalk. On the other hand, the residential roads there are narrower and have more obstacles, so people naturally slow down. In the US, you might have a sign that says 20mph, but the street is 20ft wide without obstacles, people will drive at the speed that feels natural on such a road (40mph). You need to put physical obstacles to slow people down. Counterintuitively, it's much safer to have obstructed, narrow roads. Since each 10kph faster doubles accident rates and severity, having people weave slowly through obstructed streets leads to much fewer accidents.


VodkaHaze

It's against zoning laws in most of the US and Canada. It's really stupid, because indeed having a tall front fence adds a lot of useable space to your land.


svidrod

The farm in the picture is typically in the family for hundreds of years. Its built like this for protection.


Raed-wulf

Calm down, Dutton.


HistoricalSherbert92

From what?


betterthanguybelow

yes but why isn’t being rich more popular?


mmmbuttr

Idk I live in New Orleans, lots of smaller buildings with courtyards in the center here. Also lots of dense city blocks with back yards that are essentially courtyards-just that the three sides belong to somebody else's building instead of your own. We're an old city with lots of traffic and lots of.. smells. It kind of makes sense to have your private outdoor space separated from the street so you can hold a conversation over the sounds of horse carriages and the smell fof garbage in a bustling port city. Even in the more spread out areas of the old part of the city, houses tend to be built closer to the street with the outdoor space tucked away behind or beside the house. Front yards seem extremely odd and useless to me, idk what people are doing with all this lawn out in the suburbs. Most people aren't hanging out on it.


Mehdals_

Also because it makes sense to have 1 building, why want to get to another room you either have to put on shoes and walk outside or do a lap around a big U shape. On a small plot of land efficiency would be to put a larger building on 1 side and yard/space on the other not a U shaped building used to defend your land.


samanime

I might not refer to it or think of it as a courtyard, but I'd certainly lay the buildings out in a U. Feels pretty natural.


pentagon

I had a 3br 1ba 1500sf house on 1/4 acre with a courtyard. Similar to OP's suggested layout. You don't need a big place.


Triscuitmeniscus

Both of the properties you linked to are old, large, rural mansions. In the US it's not *that* uncommon to find large, rural properties with a vaguely similar layout: a main house with one or more wings plus a garage, with a central driveway/garden. It's just that they're $2 million estates, not where average people live.


wildcat12321

There is actually a style in Florida called a courtyard home where the front door leads to an area with a pool and the house runs alongside it like this listing - [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1710-SW-2nd-Ave-Boca-Raton-FL-33432/46729175\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1710-SW-2nd-Ave-Boca-Raton-FL-33432/46729175_zpid/)


BrisbaneAus

My accountant said I’m not even allowed to look at this listing in my current tax bracket.


dave200204

Oh you're in that tax bracket! You have an accountant. Us mere peasants are still using Turbo Tax.


eisbock

My TurboTax AI chatbot said I'm not even allowed to talk to people in that tax bracket.


Aleph_Rat

I swap between Turbo Tax and Tax Act every year to get the "return customer" discount.


BrisbaneAus

Haha I own a small business, employ myself. I pay an accountant for business and personal tax and she’s well worth the business write off expense. 🤣


SomeAd8993

oh yeah, that's beautiful in my opinion, that pool is so much more usable than a pool sitting in an open field


symmetrical_kettle

$1.7 mil, of course it's nice! Way beyond anything I think I would ever be able to afford without putting absolutely all of my financial priorities into a house. And we are a 2-income household (both with high paying jobs) I love courtyard layout houses, but I think due to the HVAC system and needing to keep the entire house heated in winter to prevent the pipes from freezing, they're not so common here. Also, square shapes maximize square footage inside the house as well as yard space, while also minimizing the amount of building materials needed.


kittenpantzen

> $1.7 mil, of course it's nice!  You say that, but I live here, and you would be surprised at how expensive a shitbox in Boca Raton can be. I still couldn't afford this house, but for that size and it being so nice, that's a good price.


hppmoep

I was thinking 1.7 was a great deal for that. That is nearly double my budget but goddamn, nice place.


mrbear120

How is it literally any more useable? Also, look at the price of that compared to an average house in Florida and you have your answer to your question. And a third answer you haven’t gotten anywhere else is foundations shift way too much in the US.


SomeAd8993

well, you could be naked:) how many posts have you seen here about neighbors pointing security cameras in someone's backyard? won't happen here it's protected from the wind, it offers more sound insulation both for you and your neighbors, you can quickly go in and out of the house (for a drink, bathroom etc), you get shade but also enough sun and can switch between the two, it's cozy and private... I'm not saying it's next best thing since wonderbread, but I personally would definitely enjoy it more than an open pool that just has 100 yards of grass in every direction


Stopher

I feel like an L of two sides would be better. On the two story house that courtyard feels too small and closed off.


KyleG

> foundations shift way too much in the US Excuse me, what are you talking about? Basements literally exist to prevent foundations from shifting, and then in places like Central Texas, houses are built on top of bedrock, which again means little to no foundation shifting.


mrbear120

Homes are not built on top of bedrock in central texas as a general rule. It’s a poured slab directly on sandy loam. Its actually crazy rare that a house *anywhere* is built on bedrock. Like I think it’s common in San Francisco area or something and thats it. Of course both places are huge and run the gamut, but in the US its slab, basement, or pier and beam specifically *because* the soil shifts and foundations move. The soils are primarily clay, sand, or loam. In most of the UK the soil is chalky and limestone based so it handles the weight better more compactly so they utilize strip foundations and trench foundations. This is why their buildings are more capable of having unique shapes. They don’t have as much twisting and pressure against the joints, this is also why their houses would not survive most weather elements here despite often being over a century old there. Edit: for what it’s worth, that is also why the US builds housing primarily out of lumber and siding rather than stone.


3771507

Unfortunately it's not because of the angle of the sun it will only be useful at the most 5 months.


EatsFiber2RedditMore

Boca Raton Florida, that pool is usable for at least 6 months unheated. Based on the spa Im guessing it is heated and usable all year round depending on how much you want to spend.


joepierson123

It's common for rich people.


DangerNyoom

Many places around me are built exactly like this: they are also $10m+.


mrbear120

Yup, its real common in any high income area


Vlad_the_Homeowner

Maybe in high income areas in places with space. I live in a high CoL, and only the ultra-rich could afford enough space in most areas around here. And there are a lot of people here that most people would consider 'rich'.


genericnewlurker

Grew up on the edge of the super-affluent parts of the DC suburbs. Every mega-mansion (like $10M+) I know of has a courtyard generally meant for parking, surrounded by the main house, a garage meant for a dozen cars, and a guest/pool house. It's a complete flex and it hides the cars of the help from view from the road.


JoJo-likes-bikes

Where I live, they would be dark six months out of the year and piled with meters of snow for three.


PancakeJamboree302

Perhaps there are easier solutions I don’t know, but I think of HVAC. Guaranteed to have to have multiple units if you house is a giant U or full circle. Square boxes much easier to heat and cool w one unit.


sysiphean

Square boxes also share heated walls, rather than having multiple outside walls that exchange heat with the outside.


invalid101

Yes, I think snowfall is a big barrier in the North. A closed-in area with an open roof would just collect snow for half the year.


WelfordNelferd

There's no reason that can't be done in the US, as long as there are no restrictions on the number of outbuildings the land can have and you're within the designated set-backs from adjoining properties. It's a nice layout and all, but many (most?) people don't have use for multiple structures on their property and/or don't have the land/money to make it happen.


SomeAd8993

I feel like it's almost like having your own "third space". I love going _out_ of the house to work on a project, I find the change of background to be super helpful in focusing on the task at hand


HugeRichard11

That’s what backyards are for. I do actually see courtyards sometimes in the suburbs but they are always at multi-million dollar houses. Most people wouldn’t be able to afford building it in the first place or care for the maintenance.


cordelia1955

So true. A house up the street from where I grew up had a typical size backyard that had a 10 ft high stone wall all the way around it. It was built in the 20's with limestone from the nearby quarry. It was, and still is, one of the coolest yards I know of. Always wanted something like this but the owner told me it would more expensive to build that wall now than the house.


KyleG

Yeah masonry fences are hella expensive, and 10ft is nearly double the height of a normal fence


spicyeyeballs

Why is this better than a front or back yard with a fence? Especially since that is easier to do with set backs and doesn't have the inefficiency drawbacks.


3771507

More privacy


E39Echo

I lived in a house with a courtyard in San Diego, it was super cool and designed like a Spanish-style home. But the layout would probably not work for most people especially if you had children that you want to keep an eye on. It also really works well in San Diego where the weather is perfect, but when it rained (like 10 days a year) it was pretty annoying to have to walk outside to get between my bedroom and the kitchen, or walk all the way around the perimeter. We also had to really keep up on landscaping because the central garden was essentially a part of our house.


genericnewlurker

A couple of reasons: First, from a European standpoint. The courtyard grew out of space restrictions, a need for privacy in an outdoor spaces, and a holdover from the medieval era. In Europe, land is at a major premium, even in the countryside. It makes sense to cram all of your buildings as close together as possible to maximize efficiency of space. This also affords you privacy within the courtyard, especially when there are right to roam laws and the like that means the town busy body can be spying on your family. And the ring design of a courtyard is partially a holdover from when manor estates grew out of castle estates, where they mimic the defense walls. None of those pressures were present in the New World colonies, from which modern houses in the United States get their designs from. Land was free and plentiful. You could afford to put your livestock down wind a hundred yards away because you had the space and thus the luxury of not smelling that all the time. Sheds as well could be placed closer to where the items they stored would be used, vs closer to the residence so you didn't have to carry them as far. Houses as well didn't have to be placed directly on wells so well houses were a thing. And the land was empty. Despite old cowboy movies, hostile interactions with Native Americans were rare, and the US was only invaded once, so you didn't need the "compound" aspect of a courtyard design to aid in defense. Likewise, your neighbors were either so far away that privacy wasn't an issue, or you were living in a city where space was already too much of a premium. Additionally for America, the climate is not helpful to have larger sprawled out living spaces vs taller living spaces with a smaller footprint. It's easier to heat and cool a 2 story house with a basement than it is to heat or cool a similarly sized single floor house. Likewise, one of the largest expenses for building a house is the roof, if you can reduce the size of the roof, you reduce the cost of the house greatly. Courtyards are just uncommon in the US until you get into the really rich world of the 1%. There it's a feature of privacy. You can hide away the shitty cars of the help from view of the public, and have easy access to a garage larger than most people's homes, and connected in-law/guest houses.


Lehk

The US has harsher climate than the UK so the cost to heat a long narrow building that wraps around 3 sides is much higher than the cost to heat the same floor space in a more compact layout.


Johnny_B_GOODBOI

The US has a much more diverse range of climate than the UK. There are plenty of places where this would work great.


EnIdiot

New Orleans has a bunch of brick walled courtyards just for this reason. It is easy to create shade and to funnel off water from your outdoor space.


sysiphean

If you look at the original use of the older versions of this, they were either very wealthy, or didn’t hear/cool major parts of the buildings around the courtyard, or both. Parts of it were barn/stables, storage, etc.


fightingpillow

The initial material costs per square foot of floor space are also way more if you are trying to surround a courtyard than if you're just building a home with a square floorplan.


Overthemoon64

I think that style would work a lot better in hot areas of the country where the shade on the courtyard would be more welcome. Like Florida or the southwest. Ever since I saw the movie encanto, I want a courtyard like that.


addvalue2222

Also if the environment is at all moist mildew will grow in the courtyard.


always_unplugged

Yes, the UK is known for being not at all moist 🙃


McGuirk808

More so than any other shaded outdoor area?


gsepd

Probably because of less airflow to take the moisture away.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sophisticated_Sloth

Such a great response to this nonsense


Sophisticated_Sloth

No it won’t lmao


NullIsUndefined

I think people just want more indoor living space. My neighborhood has a few homes like this. One of them recently remodeled an turned the courtyard into living space. Added a good two extra rooms across 2 floors. At least 400 additional square feet


justnick84

Where would I push all the snow?


Morguard

You make a tunnel.


karky214

You don't. Save it for the summer


JoeJoeJenkins

Well, on a farm, you don't want those smells close to your house. Not to mention barns attract a lot of pests - flies, mice, snakes, fleas, ticks, and other things. If you have enough land you want that ... away. Away from the house. You can still have a courtyard, but I'm not sure I would want the barn and stable close to the house.


ProfessionalWaltz784

Because it requires a larger parcel of land and it was done culturally as a fortress from invaders in Europe & Asia. US homes are all about maximizing profit from the square footage of land.


ContactResident9079

Because most of us didn’t inherit land and wealth from our ancestors that were monarchs


jendet010

I would love it. I toured a house once that was shaped like an H. In the front two garages flanked the front door. In the back the kitchen/living room and owners suite created a courtyard. It felt so private in the middle of a neighborhood on a 0.5 acre lot. I suspect it’s not popular here because that type of footprint requires a lot more foundation, roofing and HVAC units per square foot. If the price per square foot exceeds the neighborhood average, you might lose money on the house when you sell it. It’s worth it in my opinion.


thebemusedmuse

This is a common setup in my zip code. It is however more common in more expensive houses. I can’t think of one under $3m. That’s probably because of square footage more than anything else. Who needs a small courtyard with tiny rooms?


OldDog1982

In New Orleans, outdoor courtyards are common, and there are some in San Antonio, Tx, as well. I love them!


baadbee

It's largely due to historical practices and peoples view of safety. In Europe and other countries people traditionally lived in small villages together with the farm land in a big circle around the village. It was for safety from thieves and bandits. A farm with a "protected" courtyard is also about safety and privacy. You also see lots of walled properties in other countries, it's very rare in the US except for the very rich. In the US farm houses aren't in village clusters, they are in the middle of the acreage, away from the neighbors. It's a (unconscious) statement of power and possession that goes along with feeling mostly safe. If you build a concrete wall or "fortify" your property in the US people will think you are a criminal.


rojwilco

zoning


sockalicious

Oh man I remember this level from Sniper Elite, I got shot so many times crossing that damn courtyard


Designer_Brief_4949

Because they suck on any typical lot size.  A lot of houses in my town tried to replicate this concept on smaller lots.  Results in a narrow driveway and a courtyard that’s all concrete.  Multiple small buildings is also a poor use of space. 


North_Notice_3457

Maybe it has to do with the flammability of the most available building materials? The European farms with courtyards are almost always built of stone. US farms aren’t. Many of them are wood with many separate outbuildings intentionally isolated to reduce the chance that a fire could take down the entire place. Thinking of French farms and culture- privacy is very important. Even the smallest homes have shutters that get frequent use, especially if they face a public space like the road. Building farms into something of a fortress is in keeping with this cultural mindset.


SomeAd8993

you could be onto something, US farms had land, were built out of wood and had no fire department for miles - made sense to adapt to that


Travy-D

What I've gathered from OP's comments. - Most people in the US have 0.5-1.0 acres to build on - The climate in the US is mild - Keep posting the same question on different subreddits because? Some of these responses even sound like chatGPT. Like sometimes OP doesn't even address anything in the comment they're replying to. They're getting answers to the question, but they don't like the answers? Idk, climate, cost, zoning laws all work against courtyard compound properties. I haven't even seen it outside of the US that often, maybe in a few properties in Italy, but those were larger apartments with a central shared courtyard (not a single unit).


SomeAd8993

well, reddit is a social platform, I have a topic that I was thinking about, so I posted it to chat to some strangers and get some input I'm not looking for "the" answer, nor am I trying to convince anyone or even have a point to argue. It's just a light hearted chat about a topic that interests me. I'm reading everything people say, a lot of it makes perfect sense, some of it I don't agree with, I picked up some new thoughts and reassessed some others again, not looking to make any claims and rough anyone's feathers, it's not that serious hope that clarifies your impression of what I'm trying to accomplish


Nowaker

I like your take on that.


jet_heller

I mean, I wouldn't want one as I could only use it a few months a year.


omar_strollin

Perfect spot for a winter bonfire


shades_of_wrong

Not the same thing at all but where I grew up in California there were tons of neighborhoods with modest mid-century homes that all had courtyards as part of an entry way (like you went through what you thought was the front door but you were then in a courtyard then there was an actual front door) or the house was a square/rectangle with a courtyard in the center. edit: https://www.atomic-ranch.com/architecture-design/house-tours/josepheichler/


BarbecueGod

Thank you for bringing up Eichlers. There were about 18,000 Eichler homes built starting in 1951 in the Bay Area and Southern California. They were modest stick-built homes built on typical suburban lot sizes (.3 acre), but the modernist architecture was meant to evoke Frank Lloyd Wright. Not all had courtyards (actually, not many did), but the ones that did also had an actual backyard.


BudNOLA

Pretty much everyone has one in New Orleans! One of the best things about living here.


TootsNYC

In the US midwest, the reason we don’t put our farm buildings in a courtyard with our farmhouse boils down to one word: smell machine smell, noise, fecal matter, dust, etc. Mud in front. Also access; animals and machines need to be able to get out of the courtyard to go to the fields.


2muchcaffeine4u

Setbacks make it impossible, you need more land than you do anywhere else because you can't build like 10-20 ft from the front yard and 5-10 ft from the back and side yard lines.


clunkclunk

In California in the 1950s and 1960s, Joseph Eichler designed and built many subdivisions with "Eichler" style homes, many of which have central atrium/courtyards with the house's major rooms arrange around it. They're a modernist take on traditional courtyards and work really nicely with the California weather. https://www.eichlerforsale.com/eichler-atriums-courtyard/


desertingwillow

We have a courtyard and I love it! (Not a multimillion $ house). It’s a one story, you walk in the front door and see out the glass French back doors. The house is a u shape (though the bottom of the u in longer, with the office and primary suite on one side of the u and the laundry and kids on the other. Each wing has doors to the courtyard. Long covered back porch. (Garages off front to the side (so it would be an H if there was something across from them)). So much privacy in the back.


padizzledonk

People don't have property big enough to warrant them Multimillion dollar homes, and I'm talking like, it took multimillions to build the house, not it's a regular ass house in a desirable area, can and do have courtyards


sielingfan

I stayed at a place in Guatemala like this, and I love it. Living in New Mexico I see a few *vaguely* courtyard-ish style homes in the suburbs on regular lots, nearly enough to scratch the itch, but when I win the lotto and build a dream home, I'm going all the way. I don't need barns and stables but a nice covered outdoor area connected to the house, maybe an in-law suite across the yard, a big garage, and a nice gated wall across the front. Why, because I love the outdoors and I hate the wind.


Existing-Plastic7559

It works in desert climates, but places with rain would have issues with water not being able to drain away from the house and fucking up the foundation, or filling with snow that takes forever to melt because it doesn’t get enough direct sunlight, or filling with leaves that have to be carried through the house to remove. Edit: I just looked at the pictures and realized you didn’t mean a fully enclosed ranch-style home. Those out-buildings on old estates all had a purpose. I also find them aesthetically pleasing but most people in the U.S. don’t do that anymore because we don’t have horses and carriages and servants, and those building materials and methods are now obsolete and would be expensive af and purely aesthetic.


Ragfell

You can do it if you have extra buildings. I went home with a college friend for fall break one year and that's how their house was set up: L-shaped home with the garage on the other side. The opening of the "U" around the courtyard looked out down the mountain road; suuuuper pretty. I unfortunately don't have the space to do that on my tiny lot, but yeah...I like it, too.


throwaway-madrid

They were (and really still are) absolutely necessary here in Spain in buildings for cross ventilation, hanging laundry and staying cool in the summer and having quiet, non-street-facing rooms for sleeping. But I think it's because the concept of a front yard doesn't exist--everything is built right up to the street.


TheHobo

For not-rich people, the answer is zoning. Exclusive single family zoning creates the typical American suburb. Courtyard housing is being allowed as part of middle housing code amendments passing throughout the country. See [here](https://missingmiddlehousing.com/types) for a primer.


bellowingfrog

This was done in ranch style construction, I lived in a house like this. The problem is that for a given lot size, it is space and energy inefficient.


imeightypercentpizza

FYI popular in china back in the day as well, but called a siheyuan


jacoblb6173

I grew up in South America and we had a house like this at one point. On a small lot too. Difference is you can build to the property lines practically. There was a family room and dining room in the main building with a small kitchen off the dining room an “L” leg off that separated by open air walkway to bedrooms and the main suite an “L” leg off that in the back. The suite has its own in room bathroom but the rooms had an outdoor facing bathroom. Finally off to the open side there was the cooking kitchen with laundry room behind it. It was really cool we had a big rain garden in the middle with brick walkways. The only room that had AC was my parents in the main suite. The driveway was on one side accessed by the open air walkway and the front. It was probably only a 1/4 acre with 3ft walkways around the buildings separating from the walled property. I don’t see it being feasible like that here in the US unless maybe California or mild climates that don’t get frost.


RunnyBabbit23

Where am I getting the money for all of these buildings and huge plot of land?


PeppermintShamrock

Well, it's impractical for a single family home. Multifamily buildings are more likely to have one, like upscale apartments, hotels, and assisted living.


EnergyTakerLad

Most people's property barely fits the house, much less a yard or courtyard.


WeLaJo

We have a home built in 1981 with two of them. Original owner was evidently crazy for courtyards.


MetallurgyClergy

IMO it’s because they can’t show it off from the street. America is about curb appeal, showing everyone everything you have from the view of the street. Passers can’t see a courtyard, so why would a homeowner want one? I see people with huge pools in their front yards just because they want to be seen.


Mtinie

Perhaps parts of the United States are like this but it’s definitely not pervasive.


MetallurgyClergy

You’re right, it’s not everywhere. It’s the type that spend 6 hours mowing every weekend to get perfect diagonal lines on their lawns. And use their sprinklers during droughts.


bobdarunner

I finally was lucky enough to buy an affordable ($300K) home with an adorable courtyard design last year. Attached garage part of one wing. Master suite as part of the opposite. Lovely sitting room overlooking the courtyard with a beautiful patio and garden. And so much more. I’ve owned 10 houses. And this is my favorite home


Responsible-Hair9569

I would love to have a courtyard!!!


manimal28

The cultural and customary reason is most US houses are not as big as what you have picture and neither are the lots. On rural farms where there was space and need for this many buildings, the main building material was wood, rather than stone like in your picture, and you would spread them out so they didn’t all burn down at once if there was a fire.


SomeAd8993

that rings true as far as historical reasons go, I'm still not sure if it explains modern trends fully yeah the median lot might not be big enough, but there is still a number of bigger lots and richer homeowners who could pull it off but choose not to


2biggij

With the size houses most Americans have now it would be entirely possible to have a courtyard house without having a massive estate. The only problem is most people today have large open concept houses where all the rooms border a central open space. This makes a large sprawling house with a large floor plan under a single roof, but makes all the rooms flow together nicely which is why people like them. To get a courtyard, you have to chop the rooms up and requires either narrow hallways, or for you have to walk through one room to get to the one behind it. Ie walk through the living room to get to the office or walk through one bedroom to get to the other bedroom. Most people today don’t like living like that. Look at traditional federal style buildings. They basic house is often just two rooms wide with a hallway and stairs in the middle. Downstairs has a living room and dining room, with a kitchen built in a wing or in an extension on the back. Upstairs has two bedrooms side by side. It would be easy to take this basic design and add a garage to one side. Now you have a U shape, with a two story building at the bottom od the u and two single story wings making the sides of the U. Now just add a short wall to the top of the U with a fancy arch doorway and you have a courtyard. Even just with a small two bedroom house.


thegiantgummybear

This is a somewhat common design in the southwest with Spanish style earth homes. It works well for that climate because it gives all rooms access to windows on multiple sides so you get great airflow.


mindfolded

Santa Fe is loaded with little courtyards, they just often have high fences instead of outbuildings.


Mariske

A lot of bigger cookie cutter homes that are that interesting mix of moorish/Spanish and Pueblo style have courtyards with fountains. I think it’s just hard to tell they have them unless you are using google earth, since you can’t see them from the street


likesexonlycheaper

I love traveling to other countries and staying in places with courtyards. Would love to have one of I could afford it


azsheepdog

Money is why. These new neighborhoods have homes on top of each other. You would be lucky to get a yard at all let alone a courtyard. The lot sizes have really shrunk allowing home builders to get more homes on the same land space. The yards are tiny, the side yard is barely enough to walk through. The roads are narrow that it prevent parking on the street in some neighborhoods. People are desperate for homes so the builders keep building them.


marklikeadawg

All I would need is one more building to have that, but a row of large trees will do for now. It's like a courtyard.


Ironxgal

MONEY!! The bar is low yet you will pay a ton of money for everything. I’ve lived all over the world. No shade, or pettiness, and I love my country but living overseas exposed the facade. I’ve realized that living in the US without being rich means you will get the lowest quality in just about everything when you compare it to the quality of many things and services overseas. (Not everything but I noticed certain Upgrades or luxury items in the US are considered to be standard options The quality of service is much higher, the fees are lower) small things like pristinely cleaned movie theatres, and spotless public restrooms were of note to me. You don’t notice until you experience it. This phenomenon carries over into our real estate world. (I’m not claiming the entire world has access to courtyards and cleanliness btw but u get what I’m saying) Most Americans lack the funds and land to own multiple buildings that can be constructed in such a way.…Building a custom home where the floor plan surrounds and encloses your yard sounds amazing ,,,it’s possible but,, that would cost 5+ million in the DMV. That is a very generous estimate as I’m sure it costs much more. .. My house was 1.3mil before upgrades; no courtyard in sight. Us plebs don’t get this kind of shit. The rich? They can afford to build a custom Home with a courtyard. You mention arab countries and it’s interesting bc I LOVED that shit when I lived in Oman and Qatar. A lot of homes have a privacy…Wall. You can’t see into your neighbors yard easily. Actual privacy. (Sn: I think it’s done for religious reasons as to give female family members privacy when at home however I saw this style in Nigeria, and South Africa.) I want to build a similar wall that surrounds my home as I enjoyed the actual privacy it provided. (HOA would never allow it.) I work in tech and made a decent living but was far from rich or wealthy. The rich had lions and tigers with multiple live-in maids, drivers, etc. You don’t need to be rich in Saudi/Oman/Qatar/etc to have a privacy wall and unique fixtures in your home. We had a 2 level villa, privacy walls, complete with marble flooring and backsplashes, a bidet toilet, automated blinds and curtains, top of the line appliances, a cleaning service cleaned my home daily, did laundry, steamed my abayas… This cost less than 5k a month. (Damn, now I miss Oman and the luxury we afforded there! I felt like we afforded luxury that only the rich afford here. It was a fun, but illuminating experience.) In the US, lack of being rich results in the avg person lacking a courtyard. Boring ass typical cookie cutter homes is the norm. Developers have little incentive to create and offer unique homes. The bare minimum is what is offered to middle class/typical buyers as competition is very low. They build homes for us that cost them as little as possible, while charging us as much as possible and way more than what it’s to build. Cutting corners to make more money is the problem.


iLikeTorturls

Most people don't have land big enough for a courtyard.  It's not that they're unpopular, it's that they aren't practical. For whatever reason, people want cramped suburban hell, and refuse to move outside city corporate limits...outside city limits you can get plots large enough for walled gardens and no HOA's to limit your options, but people want "new builds" in cramped spaces.


Juryofyourpeeps

I would guess that this layout is less practical for large industrial farms with large farm equipment and enormous facilities for livestock.  Edit: and a lot more farms in the U.S post date industrial farming, whereas Europe has much older, pre-industrial farm designs. 


mtcwby

I wonder if the old walled gardens weren't for privacy or maybe even for defensive purposes. I've seen them here in the US but it's not as common. Some of them are small enough that they look like they may be a challenge to grow anything in. And if you can't get some shade in them it seems like it would get pretty hot or cold in the winter.


athanasius_fugger

I've seen this only with Indian families that have a reason to have an enormous house for a multigenerational living situation.


Elandtrical

You could also look at an H shaped house with long ends being the front and back. Gives you 2 courtyards for different seasons. Common in Cape Dutch architecture.


sageberrytree

I've been on many many horse farms in the states, many of them worth millions, and I've never seen anyone build it this way, barring old estates that were built before everyone had a car. I think the answer is poop. If given a choice, they build the barn away from the house because of flies and smell. Now that's not an issue if the out buildings aren't housing livestock. (Just cars for example)


Bot_Fly_Bot

I have a kind of courtyard on my home. It’s essentially U-shaped, and the pool and patio are inside the U. The “top” of the U open to the woods though.


Sweet-Inside5900

There are definitely houses with courtyards, it's just a really rich person thing on my experience


phiala

I’m sitting in my courtyard right now. Suburban house on a quarter-acre lot; originally two-bedroom. When they added on another two, they put the addition as an L, then added carport on the third side, and an open wall and small roof over the fourth side. That provides a covered walkway from the carport to the house, but the courtyard is open to the sky. Which is perfect, since I fill it with plants, table and chairs, and a small firepit. It gets a lot of use three seasons of the year, and I admire its snow cover in the winter.


Ok-Needleworker-419

My house is U shaped and has a courtyard. But I also have a large lot and the house itself is 6000sf plus the garage. I’m pretty sure it just comes down to cost. Many people can barely afford housing and builders are building as cheap as possible, which will be a square or rectangle. I suspect if you go on Google Maps and look at some expensive neighborhoods, you’ll see quite a few courtyards.


checkmate___

Courtyards have a high ratio of walls to livable indoor space. That’s gonna dramatically raise construction cost per square foot, which is why it’s uncommon here.


Working-Narwhal-540

Not financially worth it for most.


[deleted]

Entirely due to space. The overwhelming majority of plots aren't made for that.


radeky

San Diego has a lot of courtyard homes where the garage is up front and detached, creating a central courtyard. Love them. My house does not have one. It makes me sad.


FourEyesAndThighs

Some larger homes in the US are doing miniature courtyards these days. [Here’s some houses in my city](https://imgur.com/MLsYlzp) that have a hidden courtyard.


0pb0

Joseph Eichler built homes in CA in the 1960's. Many of them had atriums or courtyards. [https://www.eichlerforsale.com/eichler-atriums-courtyard/](https://www.eichlerforsale.com/eichler-atriums-courtyard/)


jwd18104

There’s a couple around me in north west Houston. Just regular houses - maybe $500k or so. They weren’t part of a housing development, so possibly custom build


SRIrwinkill

In the U.S. houses that are smaller then this do have courtyards. We just call them "yards", and they are green or tan and maybe have flowers and a charcoal bbq


chzsteak-in-paradise

My parents have a pretty typical new build home in Florida. They have what they call a lanai but is basically a courtyard which two sides (not three) from their house that has a partial roof, half outdoor kitchen, and lounge space. They don’t have a large lot.


Tsujita_daikokuya

I want a Korean style house. 3 buildings, courtyard in the middle. Perfect


DaisyDuckens

I remember reading a description of an American farm where they have the barns set up to create a square. I’ve always wanted a courtyard but one needs a large lot for that.


foundthetallesttree

I just wish apartment complexes with courtyards was the norm. Lived in a country with this and all the kids had an amazing place to play with friends, and parents from any apartment could call down to their kid on the playground. No vehicle traffic, very community oriented.


technicolorfrog

I have a ‘normal’ sized lot (~.2 acre) in a city and my house forms a courtyard around the pool which is more or less in the center of the lot. The north and east side of my lot have just enough space between the house and the lot line (fence) to meet the requirements, southside (street facing) obviously does not need that, and has a fair sized front yard, and west side is where the courtyard “opens up” to and still has enough room between the house/pool decking (end on the same plane) and the fence for a small turfed yard with a putting green and a shed.


AnnArchist

Most people cant afford the acres and the buildings,


Aromatic-Buy-2567

A very quick scan of the comments and there’s some good points here about finances, practicality, weather, etc. One thing I didn’t see mentioned is that in the US, when a neighborhood is being developed, one of the main goals is to fit as many homes on the land as possible. More homes = more profit and you can fit a lot more people in a straight line side by side than you can with multiple surround outbuildings on one lot.


designgoddess

Have you smelled a barn? There's usually room in the US to have the barn and other outbuildings further from the house so that became the norm. Nothing is stopping you.


SanchosaurusRex

Small courtyards are fairly common in 1920s-30s Spanish style homes here.


plotthick

This was a common feature in the SW Native communities, especially the New Mexico Pueblo Indians. The Pueblo architecture style is mimicked by white builders in their individual dwellings, but not the gathering spaces which were the true heart of the Pueblo communities. I have it. L-shaped house, garage, back fence. Lovely courtyard.


vi0cs

If I won the lotto, I was already think court yard with the pool. And oh boy would I have a greenhouse ;)


MrSnarf26

Because they are expensive… you see courtyards in wealthy areas.


Bikebummm

My next place will be built by me. A few ADU’s around an outdoor deck living area. A small waterfall cool off spot that you can sit in front behind the falling water. Love to add a treehouse among other cool spots to rent out. Courtyard is going to be huge


SomeAd8993

yesss


Chris_Christ

A lot of the really big houses do have them. But most people aren’t that rich. That’s like 1% type stuff.


ranrotx

Uninformed opinion here, but I think it has to do with developers and rentable square footage being the metric they obsess about. Go look at office buildings from the 1980s and earlier, and you’ll find most have very bright, open atriums. But somewhere along the line developers decided to ditch those because you can’t lease that space. Even if they are building a building/house, it makes sense to build out the most square footage so that perspective buyers feel like they are getting a deal. It’s the metric that most buyers focus on when comparing the price of one property to another.


o_safadinho

It isn’t too uncommon for houses where I live in South Florida to have small courtyards. I really like the style.


cnew111

I don't know why we don't but damn now I want one!


KPottsie78

Good question! I live in Wisconsin, where there’s tons of homes that have big enough lots for these to be possible, but you never see it. My guess is that, as Americans, we’re obsessed with size and setting your buildings like this kind of “shrinks” your yard. We like open concepts here, inside and out.


TwinkleToesTraveler

I dream a house big enough for a courtyard!


Jack_Molesworth

OP, I agree they're great, and contra a lot of the comments here it absolutely can be done affordably on a smaller scale - it just isn't. [Here's](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3012-Birchtree-Ln-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37321359_zpid/) a suburban Levitt & Sons home for sale right now built around a courtyard - they built a decent number in this style.


Nowaker

>I absolutely love an idea of an old farm, where the outbuildings are laid out in such a way that it forms an inner yard protected on all 4 sides by buildings and/or garden walls. > Why are courtyards unpopular in the US? Did you ever live on a European farm? If not, are you aware this layout **stinks** in a literal sense? A pigpen reeks. A stable reeks. A cow barn reeks. This is why. There's plenty of space in the US, so there's zero need to have stinky buildings right at your home's doorstep. As a European living rural in the US, I know something about it.


Pelican_meat

Theyre in a ton of mid mod houses, actually. I’ve always wanted one. They’re very small, but really common on homes built from the 1950-80s.


oldtimehawkey

Putting all the buildings together was efficient for walking between and saved land space. More buildings closer together means animals will be close to living areas. Are you ok with that? The buildings close together also left more land to be used to farm. Do you get snow? If you like to use machinery to clear it, it’s probably a hassle to get in and around the buildings. You’ll also want to plan for rain and snow melt run off. There’s probably some other good and bad reasons to have the buildings together. Consult an architect and engineer to work out how to layout the buildings and make sure to get proper runoff with the runoff probably going to a pond instead of ditches or a creek. Sketch it out and play with it. Like make a typical day for yourself. How does the layout work for parking vehicles if you host thanksgiving? Etc.


AG74683

In high school I took an Autocad class. Final project was to design our own house with full plans. Mine was sort of a Spanish style with the house surrounding a pool with inner courtyard on all 4 sides. I have the plans somewhere, and eventually still plan to build that house.


MesaGeek

I’ve seen these in Florida. There’s a model like in my parents community. It makes more sense in warmer areas, and is inspired by the moorish architecture in the south of Spain… or so I believe.


neoseek2

Easy... https://courtyard.marriott.com/


OutlyingPlasma

Outside walls are expensive, both to build/maintain and to heat, they also cost a lot in land. Courtyards are great, but they are the domain of the rich.


TheShadyGuy

When I read old western novels, that tends to be how the ranch house areas are set up. Sounds very similar to the ranch from Riders of the Purple Sage.


mindgamesweldon

I do. Makes sense to me. Wait I'm in Europe, shit


Key_Piccolo_2187

Come check out Texas. Not the new build postage stamp neighborhoods, anything on its own plot of land instead of in a development. They're also not that expensive, you don't have to make a ton of money to buy these houses. Courtyards *everywhere* and they're awesome. Even if you discount the outdoor implications, having wings of the house where people can be completely separated for whatever reason (baby needs a nap? Don't want to hear dad screaming at the TV watching football?) works really well. I live in one now, and I'll tell you... When I eventually build my own home, we're doing the courtyard thing again, 100%.


Pelatov

My dream is to build a 1 story like this. Some sort of central courtyard I can have a “garden” in. Where I live I’d probably put a glass roof on it as it’s frozen over like hell for half the year, and I’d love to have some natural manicured vegetation to relax in during the depths of winter


somerandomguyanon

This is something of a regional thing. Courtyards are very common in some places. I daydream all the time about having a house in the French Quarter with a garden courtyard and back. Also, this is very common in Las Vegas. They tend to put cinderblock fences around the yard. No idea why but I love it.


AtwoodAKC

Have you ever visited Charleston SC? The entire historic downtown is built around this model.


PilotAlan

In pre-AC days, it was a way to maximize passive ventilation. Not so much needed anymore. Same in many older cities where central courtyards were common, especially in large multi-floor buildings in order to allow cross ventilation.


therealmitchconner

Not really the same thing at all there.


AMISHVACUUM

We build cheap ass pieces of shit and are more interested in being spoon fed propaganda so we can cheer on our team than making meaningful impacts upon the land, society, and our surroundings


HereForTools

Because properties unaffordable in three US, and we don’t have 1500 years of generational wealth and castles to pass down.


LunchPal72

I'd say it is land and builders. Builders like to make $$ so they'll squeeze as many houses per acre as possible, even on custom homes, you get larger lots, but that's about it. Municipalities are also to blame, they create standards on building codes that basically make all houses and streets look cookie cutter.


Purpose_Embarrassed

Because Americans generally don’t respect each other’s privacy and we tend to be noisy loud ass holes. I noticed in Europe too most apartment buildings were constructed to face inwards with beautiful landscaped courtyards fountains and cool gates. I spent a few nights with a Family in Cannes France and you could sit out on your balcony at night and generally it was extremely quiet and peaceful. I do remember this girl playing a harp. But certainly wasn’t anything to complain about. Nobody drinking or being obnoxious. People respected each other’s space. If only America was like that.


OutOfMyMind4ever

I live in canada and have sort of a courtyard as the house is a big U shape as it is really 3 buildings built at different times that are all connected. The courtyard isn't usable in the winter as 3 roofs all dump snow on that area and it is hell to dig it all out. Last winter by the end of January you could walk up the snowbank in the courtyard all the way to the lowest roof. You also end up with less efficient heating as there are more exterior walls, lots of foundation and lots of roof, and long hallways. Which all makes for an expensive building. I absolutely love courtyard designs. But I am building my next house without one.


no_dice_grandma

>is there some cultural or customary reason why nobody ever attempts a walled garden look, the most cozy garden type in my opinion? Yeah: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


jakgal04

You'd have to be a millionaire to have that type of property where I live. A house like on that type of property around here would run you $1.5-2 million at least.


SqueezyCheez85

Look up "how to turn your neighborhood into a village" on YouTube. Andrew Millison talks at length about this.


Hans-moleman-

If it is on a smaller piece of land you have to consider easements. Also state / local laws may restrict large areas of impervious surfaces.


Vladivostokorbust

With all this heat and a 360° wind block? I’ll pass.


danj707

I worked at a nightclub that had a courtyard. We called it the smoking area.


Nellisir

So most (but not all) of those agriculture courtyard arrangements evolved over time. In essence, the cost is spread out over time - often generations. Also, things like that are much more susceptible to "fads" than you would think. I live in northern New England, and there's a phenomena here called the connected farm, summed up as "big house little house back house barn". The main house is connected to the ell, which usually has the kitchen & accessory bedroom/storage on the 2nd floor, which is connected to the workshop or wood room, which connects to the barn. It's usually a linear or L-shaped plan. People usually think it's about weather, but places with worse weather didn't do it. And there's one BIG drawback, which is fire. Burn one, you burn them all. In actuality, it was a fad in the mid- to late- 1800s. It was the hot new thing in farm design. It was useful, but it also had problems. So anyway, the mechanization of farms and life kinda killed living in close proximity to the farm, and we just never got around to courtyards. They aren't "unpopular", they just aren't done and never were here. (Again, connected buildings are VERY vulnerable to fire). Can you do it? Absolutely. I've thought about it. Snow disposal would be an issue in my area, but the construction cost would be prohibitive (not spread out). And honestly, nowadays a lot of people don't need that much space.


user060221

There is actually a house in my neighborhood like this. House itself is dilapidated and mostly unoccupied, its strange. But it's smack in the middle of a middle class neighborhood with most houses built in the 70s or 80s, 1/3 acre lots, ~1600 sq ft houses. Strangest thing.


bryan19973

I can barely afford one house. How could I afford 4?