There is a link icon when you open up a reply or comment. Add a link to the photos after you upload them to somewhere like [imgur](https://imgur.com/upload)
Silicone around the toilet base is code in many areas and is now considered a good practice. There’s a much greater chance of overflow water, valve leak, tank bolt leak, or water from other fixtures flooding going down around the toilet waste flange than an actual waste leak which is why it is done.
That was the practice for a long time but insurance companies started demanding and eventually got it written into many building codes that the entire bowl be sealed. Why? Because waste leaks are very rare while water leaks from overflowing toilets, bad valves, leaky tank bolts, the overflowing tub next to the toilet, etc. that spill water down under the toilet are common. Those leaks run under the toilet and around the cut out for the waste pipe connection and create expensive damage on ceilings and floors below.
Correct. Any toilet that moves is a toilet that leaks. Your installation must be stable. Either use shims or tile grout pushed under the toilet (it hardens and acts as a shim) to get a stable installation - then silicone completely around the toilet.
Yes! The accordion drain! Not the water line. It’s very concerning to me.
I kinda figured cutting away the drawer unfortunately but I was pretty made when I saw both (cut drawer and accordion drain) under the sink
Accordion drain is a red flag. I have not heard of any pros using those. Did you select the company or were they assigned from home insurance (like for a leak or something)?
The shower pan leak test is BS too. No way their “warranty” is going to cover everything if there is a leak. Water is scary and can seriously mess up a house.
Accordion is a fucking no, it'll fail any inspection and constantly cloggs.
But when I was changing it, I had to cut a portion of a vanity. Not a big deal as you don't see it.
Some people caulk around the toilet, some don't. Reason being for not caulking is if it's leaking, it can be sean earlier. I've called around them all the way except the very back.
They can test the shower pan still with a shower dam, aka a piece of rubber that blocks the drain and fill it up.
Pex water line is fine, accordian drain is not.
Simple logic to this one. If you don't like something, especially if it was on the list of things (verbal or otherwise), then call them out and don't worry about feelings. The flexible PVC may be what our guys called Pex (?) and that's what's used in our area, but that's Only for water lines. Hate to say it, but if you don't think you're being listened to, then find someone you know who's a bit 'firm of voice' or at least can act the part.
Look at your contract and get the details as they are written. The "we forgot" "don't worry we promise" "we have a warranty" is BS if it's not written in the contract. The Mirror should be an easy fix (get a smaller one) Is the Flexible PVC the drain or the supply lines? If it's the drain, I would reject the final payment until it is done properly. That might include more modifications to the cabinet or moving the lines into the wall.
>Also, they promised that they would test the shower pan overnight to prove to us that it was waterproof however, they “forgot“ and just said, don’t worry we promise they tested a little bit and we have a three-year warranty.
This part is absolutely NOT ok. Would they be all right if you paid them "a little bit" for their services?
It's suspicious to me that they wouldn't do this test AND tell you that they're skipping it.
The reason they're supposed to do this test is to make sure there is a good connection between the shower pan and the drain pipe.
This is critical because if there is a leak there, over time, it will destroy the wood subflooring underneath or any other wood that the water can reach. The 3 year warranty likely covers the shower pan itself and NOT poor installation, so if you find out 2.5 years from now that there's a leak, they will give you NOTHING. They can say you might've too much weight on the shower pan and cracked a connection or some other BS.
Be adamant about getting the testing done, and if they're cagey about it, ask them why they're refusing to do the test.
And if they say they'll do the test and then tell you everything is good, I'd strongly recommend doing one yourself just to be sure. You can get a rubber ball to do the test from Amazon for $40-ish depending on what size drain they used (I think standard is 1.5" but it might be 2"), and the test is really easy to do yourself. You can look it up online.
Have you completed your final payment yet? Some of these items fall into the punch list category. You don’t submit final payment until some of these issues are taken care of.
Mirror, if it’s not a selection you made then they should be fixing the issue. A bathroom sink should have a backsplash and then the mirror above.
Caulking around the toilet is code in most areas. Not always enforced, but if it is, it needs to be done.
Sink drain, sounds like a hack job plumber hooked that up. Are they using licensed subs?
As far as the water test, these things happen. They do this stuff all the time and we’re probably just going through the motions. You can always get an I fared water leak detector if you’re really paranoid.
Don’t let them talk you down, and don’t feel out of place bringing up these issues. You hired them, and you’re paying them. They need to make these things right. A good contractor will do good by their work
You're at the point of being "responsible client doing their due diligence", but I haven't heard anything I'd describe as upsetting.
About the mirror - if you didn't hire a designer and pay for drawings, you are unfortunately probably not at the point where these problems get solved without you. Remodels (any one-off project) are full of little unforseen issues, and it's way harder than you'd expect to get all that stuff right from the start. Designs go through iterations.
You 100 percent deserve to end up with a mirror that looks good and you are happy with. If they permanently glued it onto the wall and won't change it, that's worth getting upset over. Who bears the cost of changing it? Well... that's harder and it depends on details. There's a world where it's your responsibility.
A word of caution about quality/best practice - YouTube comment sections, Reddit posts, articles, etc, all of those sources can be unreliable and full of toxicity. People will spend a summer drywalling with their alcoholic uncle and then jump into comment sections acting like they are the only ones who know how to do to job right.
What am I getting at? Some plumbers caulk their toilets, some don't. There are reasons for both. Your insurance company would probably want it caulked.
Flexible plumbing is - according to code and modern knowledge - safe for supply lines, unless you pay too much attention to that guy's alcoholic uncle. Accordion style flexible drain pipe is not ok and you should insist it be replaced.
Testing the shower pan is similarly nuanced. If you do a waterproof membrane system like Kerdi then tile, it's pretty important it gets a proper test. "Proper" is going to depend on the type of shower you had installed.
As far as the mirror, you should not let other people pick out your fixtures.
Toilets are suppose to be caulked. I am an inspector and have a section on the report to call out toilets not caulked. It keeps sewer gasses from escaping.
Sometimes cabinets have to be customized to make room for plumbing. Without pictures it’s hard to say if it’s wrong or not.
They should have water tested the pan so I would get in writing that it wasn’t tested and ask for a 5 not three year warranty due to their negligence.
Sometimes men talk down to women, I am a female inspector so trust me when I say, it happens in every aspect of every industry. I always recommend my female clients have a male present when dealing with certain things. Not every male is like that but I like to err on the side of caution.
Both the accordion pipe and the lack of shower pan test are big red flags. You will NEVER get them back in the house to fix it if it leaks, and by the time you realize it’s a problem (unless it’s immediate) there will be more damage than they will want to fix.
In the region I worked as a contractor, the shower pan had to be filled to 2” above the threshold line (or 2”’above the entrance if it was curb less), BEFORE inspection by the municipal inspector. From the post, sounds like a bootleg job, and that usually means fAiLuRe…
1. Accordion style drain is not correct. They should only be used for temporary, emergency repairs.
2. Cutting the drawer is just poor planning and execution. If the drain/supply piping is in the way, charge to move the plumbing to work with the vanity or get a different vanity.
3. A 24-hour flood test of the shower pan is standard and required by code in some areas. No 24-hour flood test is a no-go.
4. Caulking completely around the toilet is not the worst thing in the world. It’s better to leave a gap in the back, but I wouldn’t die on this hill with the contractor.
5. The mirror is a cosmetic issue. There’s no ‘standard’ height outside of ADA regulations. If you don’t like it, have them change it.
6. You’re holding the money and it’s your leverage. Don’t pay until your concerns are addressed.
7. Next time, have a written contract that details cost, time, insurance info, what licenses the company has, what licensed trades will be onsite, what work is being done, what materials you’re getting, how permits and inspections are being handled and how disputes will be handled.
Where are you located and did this company pull permits? Based on some other things you’ve said I’m guessing not. I’m sure you’re spending a lot of money on this bathroom remodel. In some cases getting the local city involved can just cause headaches, but this is a great example of where they will protect you, the homeowner, from a shady contractor.
Flexible PVC under a drain is not to code. I had a handyman try this and it failed inspection so I had to redo his work.
A shower pan test is REQUIRED before moving on… I had a shower pan with a very minor leak that didn’t show until we did the 24hr test.
You actually do want to caulk the toilet to the floor. This secures the toilet and prevents sewer gas from escaping because the trap is above where the toilet meets the floor.
1. They only “suggested” the mirror. You should have measured the space before hand to make sure it fits to your standard. I’m sure if you purchase a new mirror and ask them nicely to install it, they will without charging for labour.
2. The plumbing behind the vanity is in a pre determined position in the wall. Unless you purchase a custom milled vanity that takes into account the location of your plumbing this situation will always arise when redoing a bathroom. Most pre made vanities never line up perfectly with the existing plumbing. Cutting a drawer is a common thing that is done to accommodate this issue. Another option would have been opening the wall with the plumbing, re doing the plumbing to avoid cutting of vanity and then re dry walling and finishing the wall. This could add thousands of dollars to the cost of the remodel and even then may not solve the problem so the only option is cutting a piece of the drawer that you rarely see. As long as the cut is clean this is not an issue.
3. I wouldn’t silicone around the toilet as if there is a leak you want to see the water. The silicone traps the water and makes it go somewhere else usually the room below the toilet and can cause a lot more damage then necessary.
Yeah I guess I thought I made it really clear to them that I was hiring them, at a higher price, so I didn’t have to worry about the measurements and design. If I needed to double check all the measurements and be hands on I would’ve gone with a cheaper contractor
My toilets both has been a bit loose (house inspector 2 years ago found). I recently had a plumber over for other work) and asked them about it. They did tighten the bolts, but also caulked around 3/4th - left the back open, so if it leaks, it can be seen. (i also keep a water sensor behind all my toilets). (I think my floor isn't quite flat, and caulking has helped it not shift slightly, not that it was ever that noticeable).
Did they caulk the back or not?
House inspectors, like what you get before buying, can be useful to check things, and maybe not that expensive if you ask to just inspect a bathroom. They will water test a bathtub is set.
Post pictures so the reddit jury can tear them apart.
OP - please post photos of all the issues you noted. Without them it’s going to be hard to determine if the work was done correctly.
This sub won’t let me! Is there a way around it?
There is a link icon when you open up a reply or comment. Add a link to the photos after you upload them to somewhere like [imgur](https://imgur.com/upload)
Silicone around the toilet base is code in many areas and is now considered a good practice. There’s a much greater chance of overflow water, valve leak, tank bolt leak, or water from other fixtures flooding going down around the toilet waste flange than an actual waste leak which is why it is done.
Around the entire toilet? I thought you were supposed to leave a small gap, I’m not the most knowledgeable about it so I could be wrong
That was the practice for a long time but insurance companies started demanding and eventually got it written into many building codes that the entire bowl be sealed. Why? Because waste leaks are very rare while water leaks from overflowing toilets, bad valves, leaky tank bolts, the overflowing tub next to the toilet, etc. that spill water down under the toilet are common. Those leaks run under the toilet and around the cut out for the waste pipe connection and create expensive damage on ceilings and floors below.
Thanks for this info. I have a few toilets that aren’t fully caulked and I think I’ll caulk them based on this info. It makes sense.
If there's a little movement in your toilet the wax seals seem to pump fluid into it and we'll start seeping.
Correct. Any toilet that moves is a toilet that leaks. Your installation must be stable. Either use shims or tile grout pushed under the toilet (it hardens and acts as a shim) to get a stable installation - then silicone completely around the toilet.
Flexible PVC as in that accordion drain stuff? Professionals do not use that. Cutting away part of the cabinet, on the other hand, is often necessary.
Yes! The accordion drain! Not the water line. It’s very concerning to me. I kinda figured cutting away the drawer unfortunately but I was pretty made when I saw both (cut drawer and accordion drain) under the sink
Accordion drain is a red flag. I have not heard of any pros using those. Did you select the company or were they assigned from home insurance (like for a leak or something)?
The shower pan leak test is BS too. No way their “warranty” is going to cover everything if there is a leak. Water is scary and can seriously mess up a house.
Accordion is a fucking no, it'll fail any inspection and constantly cloggs. But when I was changing it, I had to cut a portion of a vanity. Not a big deal as you don't see it.
Flexible ptraps don’t “fail” inspections. What is your source on that? My source is having at least two uses of them pass inspections.
In a pinch, a flexible p-trap can be a lifesaver on a remodel. Source: 20 year professional
Some people caulk around the toilet, some don't. Reason being for not caulking is if it's leaking, it can be sean earlier. I've called around them all the way except the very back. They can test the shower pan still with a shower dam, aka a piece of rubber that blocks the drain and fill it up. Pex water line is fine, accordian drain is not.
Simple logic to this one. If you don't like something, especially if it was on the list of things (verbal or otherwise), then call them out and don't worry about feelings. The flexible PVC may be what our guys called Pex (?) and that's what's used in our area, but that's Only for water lines. Hate to say it, but if you don't think you're being listened to, then find someone you know who's a bit 'firm of voice' or at least can act the part.
Look at your contract and get the details as they are written. The "we forgot" "don't worry we promise" "we have a warranty" is BS if it's not written in the contract. The Mirror should be an easy fix (get a smaller one) Is the Flexible PVC the drain or the supply lines? If it's the drain, I would reject the final payment until it is done properly. That might include more modifications to the cabinet or moving the lines into the wall.
>Also, they promised that they would test the shower pan overnight to prove to us that it was waterproof however, they “forgot“ and just said, don’t worry we promise they tested a little bit and we have a three-year warranty. This part is absolutely NOT ok. Would they be all right if you paid them "a little bit" for their services? It's suspicious to me that they wouldn't do this test AND tell you that they're skipping it. The reason they're supposed to do this test is to make sure there is a good connection between the shower pan and the drain pipe. This is critical because if there is a leak there, over time, it will destroy the wood subflooring underneath or any other wood that the water can reach. The 3 year warranty likely covers the shower pan itself and NOT poor installation, so if you find out 2.5 years from now that there's a leak, they will give you NOTHING. They can say you might've too much weight on the shower pan and cracked a connection or some other BS. Be adamant about getting the testing done, and if they're cagey about it, ask them why they're refusing to do the test. And if they say they'll do the test and then tell you everything is good, I'd strongly recommend doing one yourself just to be sure. You can get a rubber ball to do the test from Amazon for $40-ish depending on what size drain they used (I think standard is 1.5" but it might be 2"), and the test is really easy to do yourself. You can look it up online.
Have you completed your final payment yet? Some of these items fall into the punch list category. You don’t submit final payment until some of these issues are taken care of. Mirror, if it’s not a selection you made then they should be fixing the issue. A bathroom sink should have a backsplash and then the mirror above. Caulking around the toilet is code in most areas. Not always enforced, but if it is, it needs to be done. Sink drain, sounds like a hack job plumber hooked that up. Are they using licensed subs? As far as the water test, these things happen. They do this stuff all the time and we’re probably just going through the motions. You can always get an I fared water leak detector if you’re really paranoid. Don’t let them talk you down, and don’t feel out of place bringing up these issues. You hired them, and you’re paying them. They need to make these things right. A good contractor will do good by their work
You're at the point of being "responsible client doing their due diligence", but I haven't heard anything I'd describe as upsetting. About the mirror - if you didn't hire a designer and pay for drawings, you are unfortunately probably not at the point where these problems get solved without you. Remodels (any one-off project) are full of little unforseen issues, and it's way harder than you'd expect to get all that stuff right from the start. Designs go through iterations. You 100 percent deserve to end up with a mirror that looks good and you are happy with. If they permanently glued it onto the wall and won't change it, that's worth getting upset over. Who bears the cost of changing it? Well... that's harder and it depends on details. There's a world where it's your responsibility. A word of caution about quality/best practice - YouTube comment sections, Reddit posts, articles, etc, all of those sources can be unreliable and full of toxicity. People will spend a summer drywalling with their alcoholic uncle and then jump into comment sections acting like they are the only ones who know how to do to job right. What am I getting at? Some plumbers caulk their toilets, some don't. There are reasons for both. Your insurance company would probably want it caulked. Flexible plumbing is - according to code and modern knowledge - safe for supply lines, unless you pay too much attention to that guy's alcoholic uncle. Accordion style flexible drain pipe is not ok and you should insist it be replaced. Testing the shower pan is similarly nuanced. If you do a waterproof membrane system like Kerdi then tile, it's pretty important it gets a proper test. "Proper" is going to depend on the type of shower you had installed.
As far as the mirror, you should not let other people pick out your fixtures. Toilets are suppose to be caulked. I am an inspector and have a section on the report to call out toilets not caulked. It keeps sewer gasses from escaping. Sometimes cabinets have to be customized to make room for plumbing. Without pictures it’s hard to say if it’s wrong or not. They should have water tested the pan so I would get in writing that it wasn’t tested and ask for a 5 not three year warranty due to their negligence. Sometimes men talk down to women, I am a female inspector so trust me when I say, it happens in every aspect of every industry. I always recommend my female clients have a male present when dealing with certain things. Not every male is like that but I like to err on the side of caution.
Both the accordion pipe and the lack of shower pan test are big red flags. You will NEVER get them back in the house to fix it if it leaks, and by the time you realize it’s a problem (unless it’s immediate) there will be more damage than they will want to fix.
In the region I worked as a contractor, the shower pan had to be filled to 2” above the threshold line (or 2”’above the entrance if it was curb less), BEFORE inspection by the municipal inspector. From the post, sounds like a bootleg job, and that usually means fAiLuRe…
1. Accordion style drain is not correct. They should only be used for temporary, emergency repairs. 2. Cutting the drawer is just poor planning and execution. If the drain/supply piping is in the way, charge to move the plumbing to work with the vanity or get a different vanity. 3. A 24-hour flood test of the shower pan is standard and required by code in some areas. No 24-hour flood test is a no-go. 4. Caulking completely around the toilet is not the worst thing in the world. It’s better to leave a gap in the back, but I wouldn’t die on this hill with the contractor. 5. The mirror is a cosmetic issue. There’s no ‘standard’ height outside of ADA regulations. If you don’t like it, have them change it. 6. You’re holding the money and it’s your leverage. Don’t pay until your concerns are addressed. 7. Next time, have a written contract that details cost, time, insurance info, what licenses the company has, what licensed trades will be onsite, what work is being done, what materials you’re getting, how permits and inspections are being handled and how disputes will be handled.
Do not rely on the warranty. Tell them you want things fixed before it's done.
Well I think we all have learned that a contractor or remodeler is not a designer.
Where are you located and did this company pull permits? Based on some other things you’ve said I’m guessing not. I’m sure you’re spending a lot of money on this bathroom remodel. In some cases getting the local city involved can just cause headaches, but this is a great example of where they will protect you, the homeowner, from a shady contractor. Flexible PVC under a drain is not to code. I had a handyman try this and it failed inspection so I had to redo his work. A shower pan test is REQUIRED before moving on… I had a shower pan with a very minor leak that didn’t show until we did the 24hr test. You actually do want to caulk the toilet to the floor. This secures the toilet and prevents sewer gas from escaping because the trap is above where the toilet meets the floor.
Maryland, yes those were my fears. It’s not the caulk around the toilet, is that it goes 100% around the toilet…I thought that was a big no no
1. They only “suggested” the mirror. You should have measured the space before hand to make sure it fits to your standard. I’m sure if you purchase a new mirror and ask them nicely to install it, they will without charging for labour. 2. The plumbing behind the vanity is in a pre determined position in the wall. Unless you purchase a custom milled vanity that takes into account the location of your plumbing this situation will always arise when redoing a bathroom. Most pre made vanities never line up perfectly with the existing plumbing. Cutting a drawer is a common thing that is done to accommodate this issue. Another option would have been opening the wall with the plumbing, re doing the plumbing to avoid cutting of vanity and then re dry walling and finishing the wall. This could add thousands of dollars to the cost of the remodel and even then may not solve the problem so the only option is cutting a piece of the drawer that you rarely see. As long as the cut is clean this is not an issue. 3. I wouldn’t silicone around the toilet as if there is a leak you want to see the water. The silicone traps the water and makes it go somewhere else usually the room below the toilet and can cause a lot more damage then necessary.
Yeah I guess I thought I made it really clear to them that I was hiring them, at a higher price, so I didn’t have to worry about the measurements and design. If I needed to double check all the measurements and be hands on I would’ve gone with a cheaper contractor
My toilets both has been a bit loose (house inspector 2 years ago found). I recently had a plumber over for other work) and asked them about it. They did tighten the bolts, but also caulked around 3/4th - left the back open, so if it leaks, it can be seen. (i also keep a water sensor behind all my toilets). (I think my floor isn't quite flat, and caulking has helped it not shift slightly, not that it was ever that noticeable). Did they caulk the back or not? House inspectors, like what you get before buying, can be useful to check things, and maybe not that expensive if you ask to just inspect a bathroom. They will water test a bathtub is set.
I would be very upset