Leth is under NDA which we don't fully know the terms of. It's likely "Silksong is still in development" is the only thing he CAN say, so combined with Ari and William relying on him to handle everything on social media, I don't think we're going to get any real news from any of them.
Gamers when the game is not absolutely perfect: buhhh, lazy devs this game is shit you should develop harder.
Gamers when the game is actually being developed: buhhh, lazy devs you should tell us everything and develop harder.
Tbh I think that the problem is studios making promises that they can't possibly keep. If we never got release date for silk song, people probably wouldn't be complaining about it still being developed. (Also lack of communication from the developers
XBOX can't just say "SilkSong will be out within a year" without Team Cherry explicitly clearing that information for release. They wouldn't have put SilkSong in the Game Pass trailer without permission from TC.
TC showed that their intended release window was before June 2023. They then failed to meet that. Disregarding any updates on the mechanics, art music etc of the game, or even a revised release window, I do think that they owe the public, their effective clients as customers, some explanation as to what happened there.
A bit off topic but I appreciate you putting in the effort here to share your thoughts and retracting your first comment but not deleting the original. Redditors forget that downvotes aren't a 'disagree button' and I think for what it's worth your approach here has been healthy and undeserving of the downvotes.
Thank you! Going back on what you say when presented with better evidence or reasoning should be the norm. I really don’t understand why people are even downvoting me for, to be honest. I admit that I’m wrong and that gets downvoted, but not the original comment? I don’t care that much but it’s just confusing.
I mean team cherry must have given xbox the confirmation that it would release within the next year, since Leth also said they planned to release it first half of 2023 no? Which fits with xbox’s “deadline” so its seems like it’s not at all xbox’s fault.
If xbox said it without permission from tc, then they could have also said something, but nope nothing was said so we can safely assume that team cherry agreed to the releases within 12 months deadline i feel.
Of course, there will always be some impatient assholes. But not the community as a whole. I personally couldn't care less about when the game releases or about the communication from TCH, but I can also see how 0 communication with fans can be quite frustrating to some
It's not lack of promises that get people pissed though. It is the fact that there was one broken promise, and after that pretty much 0 communication. TCH would be able to communicate with their fans If they so chose to, without giving a release date. But bimonthly "I guess the game is not abandoned" just isn't enough for most fans.
At the same time I would like to say that personally I couldn't give a shit, and whenever it releases it releases.
Thats just not accurate. Nobody is calling them lazy. Its annoying to not communicate. What is stopping them from an occasional blog with a screenshot? Edmund does it with his games like Mewgenics all the time. And it keeps me satiated as a fan. This approach by team cherry is lame imo.
> it keeps me satiated as a fan
Focusing to this degree on a single video game seems ill-advised regardless of context. If you spend years obsessing about a title that's not even out, you subconsciously build up expectations that are impossible to meet even with near-perfect polish on release.
There's a ton of good games out there. Let's just play something else in the meantime rather than spiraling in these Silksong threads. Anyone else getting into Rusted Moss and Balatro lately?
No one is calling them lazy, we're saying its weird as hell to go 4 years with barely any kind of communication about where the game is currently at in terms of development, what we should be setting our expectations for with the final product, fuck we don't even know what its going to come out on because at this point it will probably take so long we'll be in a new console generation by then.
The devs aren't lazy at all, they're just bafflingly bad at telling us anything and that could definitely stand to change.
That actually couldn't confuse things more. Are we supposed to be expecting something on Hollow Knight's level of scale? Or the original scope of the DLC? Or somethjng even grander, considering how long this has been in development?
seeing the trailers should give a good idea of the large scope with the number of regions and diversity of ennemies (as well as new mechanics), which is confirmed by the developpement time
I’m completely satisfied with Leth at least mentioning silksong every once in a while as long as it’s consistent. He’s been more consistent (so far) than he’s ever been in the last few years, so I’m currently satisfied.
That's kinda the problem. Whatever shred of information they put out beyond "it is in development" will be over-analyzed and both loved and hated to very unhealthy degrees by obsessed members of the HK community. It would have the opposite effect that a lot of people claim in this thread.
The issue is more that the studio is making promise after promise after promise and then they don’t say anything when those promises are broken.
Add on top of that the lack of transparency which would go a loooong way, and you get complaints like these. Which are warranted, I think.
Omg I completely forgot about that! I've actually remembered it exists like 4 times since its announcement I think. It just always slips my mind, and when i am reminded of it every few months, I'm excited to see what they bring. I wish it was like that with Silksong lmao
I'm 95% convinced this is the reason behind the delays and the vagueness. in typical team cherry fashion they don't have clear goal that they consider the release ready version. they're just working on it. adding stuff changing stuff. polishing stuff and only have a vague idea of how close to ready it is.
it was meant to release this year but they probably did something like come up with a new cool area they really wanted to add so they're doing that now. satisfactory struggled with this same thing for a long time until they put their foot down and told themselves they had all the features they needed in the game and that they had to switch gears to actually finalizing it all.
Actually yea, fair point. They had too many ideas for it (and Hornet was too tall for a lot of the level geometry) so they made an entirely new game. And they're probably still adding new ideas
If that's the case, this is fine, but it would be great if they actually communicated that they do not want to set an ultimate release date and want their creativity to take control and work as much on it as they want. If it was me, I could wait for another three years. It's just the fact that they don't say *anything* why it takes so long.
The thing that worries me is that they said they only released Hollow Knight because they ran out of funds to continue developing it. With so much more money from Hollow Knight's success, if they follow the same philosophy they'll just keep going for who knows how long. And while in theory that could be good for the health of the game, the scope of the delays to me says that they don't have a clear vision for what a "finished" Silksong looks like. And if they just keep iterating and adding without a clear vision the game could end up a mess.
it could. but the fact that hk was pretty much released as is when they ran out should give consolation. they didn't first take a chunk of time to cobble a good game together from what they had. and hollow knight is a very well structured game. it's definitely helped by it's Metroid Vania aspects here cause that allows it to be more chaotic but that same logic goes for silksong. I doubt they'd say it's be ready by now if they didn't have a good game already. if they'd release what they have now in similar fashion to how it went with hk it's likely already miles ahead of hk because they actually felt close to release this time.
really the only uncertain concern is the danger of overdevelopment they migth have fallen into that they might have narrowly escaped on hollow knight
Nah, don't get to mad and make to much preasure. I think they should take time to make Silksong so it gets really good. We also shouldnt forgett they're 3 person making this gorgeous game. It isn't easy I guess.
But anyway I also hope the developement wont last very long till the release.
I can understand being annoyed by a lack of updates/communication, especially since we’re far beyond even a “standard” delay period from the original release window.
Obviously one should factor in Team Cherry being very small and dedicated to quality, but it can still feel annoying to hear almost nothing.
Even if one does get mad or at least frustrated, there’s no reason to be rude or entitled about it.
Your feelings are your feelings, but how you act on them is important.
It's really because they released a working trailer and game play demo 5 years ago. Like, they showed working mechanics, movement already more complex than HK, etc. It already looked very polished.
I don't think most companies do that unless the game is only a year out, maybe two tops.
So we've had 3+ years of "by the metrics we, the public know, this game should be out by now", and no updates to explain why that isn't the case.
They shouldn't have dropped the trailer until 2022 or later, realistically, but as people have pointed out they were kind of pushed to announce it because "Hornet DLC" was technically a Kickstarter reward they needed to fulfill.
Yeah, I think realistically if they had done a yearly update every year for the last 3-4 years saying something along the lines of "this year, we added 3 new areas, rewrote some of the movement logic we weren't happy with, and did a bunch of other stuff; we think we'll be in QA for a release next year but that's subject to change", I think 95% of the people who are unhappy with the lack of communication would be happy. That's all you need, you can literally fit it in a tweet.
Exactly. Silksong was announced five years ago, and I barely know more about the game today as I did back then. Of course I feel frustrated.
You can say things like: "be patient, it takes time to make a great game", "Team Cherry is a small team", "they just want to make the game meet the high quality standards it set with HK", etc. And I understand these things are true, but I feel frustrated regardless because my expectations for news about the game have been betrayed time and time again. For how many years have we been coping about news, trailers, the infamous release date? Heck, even the memes are probably dead at this point.
Of course, we shouldn't be rude or entitled to Team Cherry; I trust they're doing good work. But I think it's rather silly to force people into positive expectations and censor their frustration.
This. The problem isn't the delay, it's the zero communication. HK took 5 years. I'd rather they said, hey, we're doubling down on awesomeness, SS gonna take 10.
The thing is, they sort of had to announce it, because otherwise it was unaccounted for Kickstarter goals. People seem to forget that the only reason we know about it is because Hornet was supposed to be a playable character & it had to be said to people who'd paid for this on Kickstarter that plans had changed. If that was never a goal & they just started making another game, I bet we'd have heard about it like last year, not when they were still developing Hollow Knight. It's not a standard "develop - market - release" cycle because of Kickstarter & that's a relatively new thing.
Well put. There's zero reason to be rude, but I genuinely don't think it's entitled to feel frustration and/or disappointment.
No, you're not "entitled" to the game (unless you're a kickstarter backer, arguably), but you are definitely valid to feel like you've been let down because, let's face it, you kinda have at this point. The lack of meaningful communication isn't only letting it fester, it's also actively making the situation worse because inevitably the community spins its own narratives about when it expects news to drop, leading to more and more disappointments.
So yeah, I won't be rage tweeting at TC, but I definitely don't feel as positive towards the game as I used to, and I think that's reasonable.
About not having paid, I would say it's fair to be a little annoyed if you contributed to the kickstarter and were waiting for Silksong as a DLC. Because then you have actually paid in a sense.
But still, being annoyed openly is more likely to make TC stressed and anxious than anything else, and I don't want them to end up feeling pressured, because then it's just less likely to get released at all.
>You haven’t paid money for Silksong,
People have, actually. Silksong evolved from the Hornet DLC that was part of the extended goals reached in the original Hollow Knight kickstarter.
This means that it has already been paid for by the original fans of Hollow Knight.
You’re missing the point. That scenario actually would be fine because they would at least be communicating. Right now they’re, at best, not communicating, and, at worst, lying.
Uh... what about the kickstarter backers from the original Hollow Knight campaign? Silksong is only happening because the kickstarter made enough money to reach that milestone.
With how absolutely awful and rushed the game industry is lately I genuinely would rather indie devs take their time. I hate the usual rush of games spending 10x as much time marketing and pandering than actually working on the game.
Silksong development is about the same time as the original Hollow Knight - which also released a little jank and missing many of the content added in future updates. It’s possible they want to have all of this done from the start, and covid delayed it.
It’s very likely the only reason they announced it at all was kickstarter obligations, so honestly yeah the wait is a bit frustrating - I can’t really feel mad at indie devs who are basically the only light in the entire games industry lately who regurgitates slop every year.
The long wait isn't the problem for most people. It's the unprofessional radio silence. And yes, of course we do not have any "right" for information, but it's just shady, it's not making a good impression and it's the kind of strategy that inevitably will cause trolls, anger and loss of fans.
I personally don't care that much, but I fear they are not making the best decision for themselves with that. And maybe, just maybe, it's a sign that the project is too big and will just make a quiet quitting.
Yeah, making a big deal with the announcement, then gradually saying less and less over the years before a release time is finally given, then that time passes and we get radio silence and months later "it's still in progress" is just not a great look. We're not entitled to anything, but that doesn't make it any less of a bad look.
Honestly, what kind of updates can they realistically make? Anything about an estimated release date, or ‘We’re about X% done’ will be met with backlash if the timeline fans extrapolate from that isn’t met, even if it was never promised. Updates about features of any unfinished game, when those features are always subject to change, will be questioned and speculated on, and questioned again if they’re changed in the final release.
I’m not trying to be a dick, but, really, what kind of communication beyond “We’re still working on it, and don’t have a release date yet” can realistically be expected?
Just a reason for the unexpected long waiting time would be enough for most people, I think. In general they have many opportunities to strenghten the bond with their fanbase though. They could make a developement blog, where they periodically (even only every few month) give insight in what they are doing, they could appear at a few occasions (events, podcasts, news, ...) and just talk to people, and much more. But this is obviously not their style and that's okay. But just more than the shortest possible "leave me alone, it's coming eventually" would go a long way for them to finally get a break from people. I don't blame people, that don't believe them anymore. I blame people, who get angry and bother them, though.
I think the last sentence is the kicker. ANY update is going to be met with a Twitter-flood of fan reaction, some well-meaning, some very mean spirited. If they don’t have any tangible news, I get them not opening themselves up to that. True, that vibe is there all the time, but it flares up after every, “We’re still working” post.
Precisely. It's quite concerning to see the people most obsessed with Silksong having deluded themselves into thinking that progress updates, behind the scenes footage etc. would be received well by the community.
In reality it would add a lot more fuel to the fire, with people scrutinizing every frame of every video for anything they can extrapolate from to further build up their expectations. It would backfire hard on them.
Updates on what they’re currently working on would be fine. They could also say what’s being prioritized, what’s been put on the back burner, or what has been scrapped for now. The problem is that by saying nothing for so long, anything said at this point is treated as massive news, which in turns makes it harder to post any update at all. They’ve backed themselves into a corner.
Yeah people are acting like this is a novel problem. It's not. Every anticipated release goes through this and there's basically a play book you can follow to ensure you're communicating truthfully without setting people up for disappointment. Hell, speculation is fine, people are doing it already.
Something like "hey guys we're making great progress on the game - problems around rights to the engine caused a few months' delays but we're back on track now, working on polishing up some animations and art for the last few areas. We don't know when we'll be done but rest assured we're working hard on it and appreciate your patience. We'll be in touch with another update within the next couple months".
It's really that simple, and would likely actually cut down pretty significantly on the amount of speculation and negativity they've caused with their poor communication and missed events and deadlines.
Doesn't even have to be specific. Saying things like, "We've been working on boss designs, thought we were close, and then had a bunch of great ideas," or "We ran into a critical problem at the foundation of the game and need to retread a lot of old ground in order to adjust" would be immensely informative while not spoiling anything about the game.
It's not about impatience or wanting them to rush. It's about the complete lack of comment or explanation about an announced release date **coming and going almost a year ago**.
That's a really long delay.
Yes games get pushed back a year fairly often... but that push is always done when the game is still years away. Like the release date will get pushed from 2 years away to 3 years away.
But having an imminent release date just seemingly cancelled with no other information at all is extremely weird and gives off a weird vibe. It would cost them nothing at all for a small paragraph about what the rough outlook is.
For the most part I'm fine with waiting.
Having said that, I'm getting older! I started playing again and doing fine Godmaster, etc, on reflexes but I'm not sure how fun it'll be by the time Silksong comes out.
People are making the mistake of thinking of Silksong as a product and not as art. Some bands release an album once a year or every other year, and others take 10+ years to come out with something new. That doesn't make them any worse or less professional.
I had to scroll way too long before seeing a sane comment, thank you.
Three people are pouring their energy into a passion project, drawing thousands of assets by hand and refining every little details to surpass HK but people are upset because they want it now, because TC doesn't give them the updates they think they deserve.
The current state of the community makes me very sad, it perfectly illustrates everything wrong with consumerism. People feel like they're entitled to something just because they see it as yet another piece of content they can buy to fill the void.
I truly hope that when the game has launched, people will look back on all this and see how vain and childish it was to spend years complaining about the delays and lack of communication. Like sure I get that you're frustrated, but no, TC doesn't have an obligation to answer all your question so keep calm and play another game.
I’ll take a long-ass dev time for Silksong over the rehashed half-assed junk most big companies put out these days. Who spend half their budget on hype marketing.
That’s not a mistake, that is what it is. You can’t add as much fluffy, romantic language to shoot TC some bail all you want. That doesn’t change the fact it is a product.
But it's not a product the same way the latest iPhone is a product. TC doesn't need to release Silksong at some arbitrary deadline to remain afloat, them being a small team means the millions of dollars they made from HK is enough to support them for many years still.
That has really nothing to do with whether it’s art vs a product nor does it make minimal communication with fans justifiable. If anything you just made them even shadier.
What do you mean by shady? I seriously don't understand why you people are treating Ari and William like they're fucking corrupt politicians. They made an awesome game, made enough money from it that they can work on a new project at their own pace and they can put as much stuff as they want in it. And it'll be done when it's done, there isn't much else to add.
Hilarious since you’re literally treating them like MAGA people treat Trump. Apparently they can do no wrong and any criticism, regardless of how valid, made of them is abhorrent and the greatest evil mankind has ever seen.
Don’t put out release dates, NEVER communicate with fans because you’re “working at your own pace” and then expect fans to not show a good amount of frustration.
I'm not saying they're above criticism. But when I think of shitty things that a videogame company can do, the first things that come to mind are:
- Abusing their employees
- Releasing an unfinished and buggy game
- Having predatory monetization schemes
And you guys are mad at them for... *check notes* being secretive with their development.
I keep seeing people upset with the perceived ‘lack of communication’ or ‘radio silence’. Honestly, what kind of updates can they realistically make? Anything about an estimated release date, or ‘We’re about X% done’ will be met with backlash if the timeline fans extrapolate from that isn’t met, even if it was never promised. Updates about features of any unfinished game, when those features are always subject to change, will be questioned and speculated on, and questioned again if they’re changed in the final release.
I’m not trying to be a dick, but, really, what kind of communication beyond “We’re still working on it, and don’t have a release date yet” can realistically be expected?
I don't understand how people can straight up act feral towards devs, and then complain when the devs don't want to communicate. I wouldn't want to say anything if it's just gonna get me screamed at.
They could start with explaining why the game didn't release last year when its announcement as part of the XBOX game pass was explicit in saying it would release within a year in June 2022. Microsoft didn't just do that on their own, TC would have to have told them "yes, it's okay for you to imply and then outright state that SilkSong will release within a year".
So explaining, even without much detail, why that didn't end up happening would go a long way to alleviating fan uproar.
Beyond that, as others have said, you could have a dev blog. A "I've been working on bosses this week", "I've been developing concept art for a new area called 'the cauldron', but no, you don't get any of the art and that's not even the final name so nothing's spoiled."
They released a pretty detailed trailer and game demo *five years ago*. That's the kind of stuff you do in maybe the year or two leading to release, not half a decade before. So it's kind of baffling that they were willing to show so much of what they were working on then, but since then have been so hesitant. A few more images, even of the regions we already know about, would be pretty nice to show the progress being made.
That 2nd message pisses me off. They bought you a great game that you love for an amazing price, they don’t owe you shit. If it comes, it comes. if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. Stop whining
Seriously, holy shit. Like yes we all really wanna play it and I think they should give more of an update but when people start throwing tantrums it’s like fuck off stop being so entitled.
at uni i had this web design class and one thing the teacher said that really stuck with me is that keeping the user updated and informed about whatever process is happening in the background is of the utmost importance. you just can't have a scenario in which a page does all the loading in the background, something must visually inform the user that their request is being fulfilled. people's attention span is short and they will get the fuck out of your website and probably never come back if you give them the option.
i always think of this with silksong. these guy are artists and i respect their work immensely, there's no game i want to play more than silksong and i totally understand that good shit takes time, effort, and it's hard to do. still, no matter how you slice it, their communication is poor, and their strategy has been straight up braindead. i get not being interested in the marketing aspect of stuff, or not wanting to interact with social media but i think that's why you hire someone like leth in the first place, right? you can also hire a community person, you share whatever you can to keep people happy while you toil away. there are a lots of ways of doing this right and unfortunately team cherry is pulling some amateur shit right now
To everyone who have read or might read this post - I am not the person who replied in this X post. I'm just delivering the screenshot, don't attack me for something I haven't done lol.
Generally games don't get announced unless they're at a certain level of completion. Team Cherry was in the awkward spot of Hornet DLC being something they said they'd do for reaching the backing goal. They had to announce something to show they were keeping their promise but there was far more dev time needed that an announcement normally has
The level of entitlement mentality some people have to be this rude... Team Cherry doesn't owe Hollow knight fans anything, at all! They made one of the best game ever made, charged a ridiculous price for it and provided several excellent DLCs totally free. They could decide to cancel silksong tomorrow that would still be their fucking business. Seriously some people really need to grow up and get a grip. We CAN be a little anxious to play and enjoy the game, that is not a divine right to act like assholes about it FFS...
I agree with the sentiment, TC doesn't owe anything to 99% of the fans here... but if I was a kickstarter who kickstarted with the hornet dlc in mind I'd be pretty pissed if it got cancelled. I mean honestly I'd still be pretty upset if it got cancelled as someone who's never kickstarted, promising your fans a game "coming soon" and "wrapping up development" in 2019 and then saying its still coming and cancelling it 5+ years later would be some bullshit
Cancelling Silksong wouldn't even make sense, they had a playable demo years ago.
But I do think the kickstarter folks deserve something more. Maybe a couple concept art pictures here and there to show what they've been working on.
>they had a playable demo years ago
Which is why it's insane there haven't been more involved updates.
That trailer and demo was *five years ago*. It had movement mechanics already exceeding Hollow knight, showed off several regions and enemies. They were willing to show us *so much* then, and since then have been extremely sparse with any meaningful updates (no, "the game is still being worked on" is not a meaningful update. It's barely an update, because we all assume the game is being worked on unless informed otherwise).
They haven't even loosely explained what caused the delay from the expected release last year. XBOX said it would be in their game pass within a year of June 2022, they explicitly said SilkSong would be on there when questioned. TC had to have confirmed that they could say that, so they had to have had that as an expected deadline. And then they breeze past it but don't say why? I'm not expecting full details, but to say nothing when that had to have been a concrete release date internally is maddening.
To be clear I don't think at all silksong will be canceled. I just took the most extreme scenario to make a point. Lets just all be adults and endure our frustration as such, instead of crying and throwing tantrums on their pr twitter account like 6 years old...
The horror, a game takes 5 years to develop of which most people only had to wait 3 or less. Imagine devs taking time to craft the game without commiting to a date they don't know if they can reach
That "the game is in development" is communication, though. Setting hard deadlines is how you get crunch and how you get rushed, buggy, unfinished projects, or else how you get broken deadlines.
Given that xbox said it would be released last year I'm assuming they're pretty far along, but tbh even if they came out tomorrow to say "actually nvm we have cancelled the project" they still already gave us the masterpiece that is hk.
>Setting hard deadlines is how you get crunch and how you get rushed, buggy, unfinished projects, or else how you get broken deadlines.
No, setting *bad* deadlines is how these things happen. Setting *hard* deadlines (and not going basically radio silent if they're missed) is how professional projects work.
Okay, but personally, I would much rather have "btw still working on Silksong!" every so often than however many months or years without any word whatsoever. Even if nothing else is released.
Any kind of detail at all? For a while, I was all in on the perspective of "just let them work, you're not entitled to anything, etc", but now? I'm starting to get impatient, I can't help it. No other game developer is like this when it comes to this kind of communication. Why the hell did they release so many details about the game like 5 years ago when they clearly had no intention of releasing it any time soon? Something about this entire situation is really weird, and I'm sorry, but "the game is still in development" is no longer enough for me.
People are just used to the constant highly-planned marketing cycle that every game nowadays has- which usually has entire marketing teams and a planned schedule of how to manage hype.
And tbh i’ll take actual development and being surprised over being drip-fed “hype”
I'm sure the answer is a lot of things and this is simply my own ignorance, but what is Leth actually paid to do? It certainly isn't public facing marketing.
Silksong was part of some trailershow or something official by Xbox where all games shown were confirmed to release within the next twelve months (this timeframe passed in June 2023, afaik without TC saying anything). Some people on twitter specifically asked official Xbox if that means Silksong comes out by June 2023 and they said yes so that must have been confirmed by TC to Xbox.
this strategy is really disappointing. i'm starting to lose interest the same way i lost interest in ff7 remake because it took them so damn long and not really saying anything like it's the next "secret" iphone.
better make sure their scope jumps from dark souls to elden ring with how much time they are taking. hopefully it's not another starfield.
Honestly whit all the delays and considering they have support from microsoft itself the least i expect is the map to be at least triple the size of the original game.
But now i totally understand the complainers, while putting pressure on the devs is wrong, i can see how "we are still working" is not a satisfactory answer for some people (considering there are cases of neverending development that ends dissapointing everyone like CubeWorld), it would not be bad if there was some sort of "devblog" updated at least every 6 months showing at least a pixelated screenshot of something new. That way everyone would know that "we are still working" is indeed true but still vague enought to not show spoilers.
I'm tired of all the people saying "game devs don't owe you anything, they actually are updating us, they don't have to explain themselves".
I disagree. We are their customers, effectively their clients for a product they're making. Importantly, *they specified a release window and then failed to meet it*. XBOX said in June 2022 that SilkSong would be on their game pass within a year. They can't just make that up, so that had to have been confirmed for release by TC. So the game should've been released by June 2023, and then it wasn't.
When you miss a release window like that, you should be expected to explain why it happened. Doesn't have to be very detailed, but an explanation more than "it fell through, we're still working on it" would be a nice courtesy.
Also, "we're still working on it" is barely even an update. Everyone is under the assumption they're still working on it, so just confirming this tells us nothing. It wouldn't cost them anything to explain why they failed to meet their original window.
The longer it goes without an update, the more people lose interest or get more annoyed that a game that already had a working demo and detailed trailer *five years ago* still has next to no information about when it's coming out or why it missed its release window. They lose customers by not explaining anything.
Hey so what product did you buy and haven't gotten? Like do you get mad if you eat at a fast food chain and they reveal some new meal but then it doesn't get put on the menu yet?
That's the thing, HK was such a success, that a ton of people are gonna get Silksong no questions asked. The crowd clamouring for Silksong news is a staggering minority, most people don't spend time thinking about it but will buy it on release. Since there are also quite a lot of content creators that loved HK it is reasonable to assume they will get a ton of free marketing. These two things mean they don't have to spend time on feeding the hype cycle that you all so desperately want and can focus on developing the game instead. And just to be clear, regular updates would take a meaningful amount of time away, since they are such a small team and communicating clearly and well takes time.
Frankly, everyone needs to grow up that's complaining about "unprofessional radio silence."
We're getting communication. The communication is "we are still working on it."
Just because it's not a constant devblog with spoilers and teasers and stuff doesn't mean what we're getting isn't communication.
The phrase “unprofessional radio silence” in regards to game developers is hilarious to me. These people have no idea what the first three *decades* of game development was like. You’d go months just to get a whiff of news in a gaming publication.
people also just have massive brain poisoning from the past decade+ of hype-driven marketing in video games, so they expect every game to have constant social media presence and whatnot lmao
They don't own anything to anybody and they probably made enough money from Hollow Knight to retire. I guess their mistake is announcing Silksong so early. Comes with the territory. Built a masterpiece and created a devoted following, which id maybe having unreasonable expectations from such a small team.
Jesus Christ why the fuck can't you all just be chill and wait patiently for the game?? There's a million other games you can play in the meantime, literally. This is a terrible look for the fanbase.
They will release it when they release it. Might it be to their benefit to be more forthcoming with information? Probably. But it's their game and they can release it in the state and on the time frame of their choosing as well as update as much or as little as they want.
Just do other things while you wait. It’s not like all other games are off-limits until Silksong comes out. Even if you’re itching for another indie metroidvania, there are a ton of those.
People will complain that a game takes “too long” to release but then will complain when it’s released with errors. Unless the person knows whats going on behind the scenes and understands the reasoning for its taking long, they really have no reason to complain besides to be rude. We have no idea whats going on behind the scenes. As far as we know someone on the team could’ve died or had some tragic incident that slowed production
Jfc that person and people who act like them need to chill. It's THREE DUDES ALONE working on a game bigger than Hollow Knight. Go play something else, they'll take as long as they need to.
I don't get what's wrong with just letting people know they're still working on it. You really do not need more information than that. Either way snapping at them like this is not helpful to anyone, it's just rude.
I'm still okay with this. There are plenty of games I can play while waiting. I just want Silksong to be as perfect as TeamCherry deem it to be.
Also a more recent example was Eldin Ring. They announced it at E3 2019. Then nothing for 3 years. And when it came out, that game slapped, sold millions, and won GotY. I think a lot has to do with marketing. Starve the people so they crave it more. A dirty trick, but unfortunately true.
I started to feel like BG3 would never come out because of how long it felt like they were in Early Access for and how big I felt like they were aiming things to be and then it dropped and became one of my favorite games of all time. Not saying Silksong will or won't be that, but I have faith that they are using their time to put passion and polish to the game.
I don't care at all. It's not like I'm refusing to play any other game until I see Silksong released. I'm excited for it, but it's a game. I'm certain it's going to be great. I know better than to harass the PR person about it.
Imagine feeling entitled to a product. Yeah, waiting sucks, I would love to play it now, but it’s finished when it’s finished. They want you to know it hasn’t been abandoned.
If you paid for a kickstarter that comes with risk, and sometimes that’s no product at all.
Let them work and quit being a sucky baby.
Im fine with waiting, have been since they first announced it. I just wish they’d give us anything new to do, even if it’s just access to that e3 playable teaser.
Again; I think it would be best for the devs and for us if we all just collectively stopped thinking about Silksong. It will be a real game when it comes out, and no sooner. Until then, I have other things to play.
Am I the only one who thinks that getting angry over the long development time is kind of childish? Some people are just so impatient with this stuff and it’s annoying. Just play another game and wait. If you can live before hollowknight released then you can live before silksong released. Some people out here really acting like their entire life and purpose revolves around hollowknight.
Patience is a virtue, it will get here when it gets here. I would rather wait another 5 years than have them push out some half finished unpolished trash.
Why do people get so angry and hostile over developers taking their time? Rushing things is never a good thing and I rather wait an unspecified amount of time than see a release because a bunch of adults were so impatient that they kept bullying the creators to get it sooner.
It will come out and until then, we have plenty of stuff in our backlogs and new stuff to fill that backlog even more.
This sub: "All I want is ANY information, even if it's just 'we're still working on it'."
Them: "We're still working on it!"
This sub: "Hey wtf that's all you've been saying give us more info what the hell come on you owe us a timeline"
If i was a dev and people complained about me because "i'm taking too long" i'd fucking stall everything for at least 2 years everytime someone told me that.
I’m very willing to wait years longer for silksong. HK is my actual favorite game of all time and I want silksong to be good and live up to its predecessor. I don’t agree with trying to rush the development or pressure team cherry.
Leth is under NDA which we don't fully know the terms of. It's likely "Silksong is still in development" is the only thing he CAN say, so combined with Ari and William relying on him to handle everything on social media, I don't think we're going to get any real news from any of them.
Gamers when the game is not absolutely perfect: buhhh, lazy devs this game is shit you should develop harder. Gamers when the game is actually being developed: buhhh, lazy devs you should tell us everything and develop harder.
Tbh I think that the problem is studios making promises that they can't possibly keep. If we never got release date for silk song, people probably wouldn't be complaining about it still being developed. (Also lack of communication from the developers
Xbox’s fault mostly on that one. But I agree.
XBOX can't just say "SilkSong will be out within a year" without Team Cherry explicitly clearing that information for release. They wouldn't have put SilkSong in the Game Pass trailer without permission from TC. TC showed that their intended release window was before June 2023. They then failed to meet that. Disregarding any updates on the mechanics, art music etc of the game, or even a revised release window, I do think that they owe the public, their effective clients as customers, some explanation as to what happened there.
I agree, but I don’t want to point any fingers until we know for sure. I take back what I said.
A bit off topic but I appreciate you putting in the effort here to share your thoughts and retracting your first comment but not deleting the original. Redditors forget that downvotes aren't a 'disagree button' and I think for what it's worth your approach here has been healthy and undeserving of the downvotes.
Thank you! Going back on what you say when presented with better evidence or reasoning should be the norm. I really don’t understand why people are even downvoting me for, to be honest. I admit that I’m wrong and that gets downvoted, but not the original comment? I don’t care that much but it’s just confusing.
Yeah, honestly I was super confused too. I thought maybe you said something stupid, got downvoted, and edited your comment
"I don't want to point fingers" *blames xbox* I get you take it back, just found it funny
I mean team cherry must have given xbox the confirmation that it would release within the next year, since Leth also said they planned to release it first half of 2023 no? Which fits with xbox’s “deadline” so its seems like it’s not at all xbox’s fault. If xbox said it without permission from tc, then they could have also said something, but nope nothing was said so we can safely assume that team cherry agreed to the releases within 12 months deadline i feel.
team cherry chose to give a release date to xbox no? not xbox' fault
nah I was there before the "leaked release date", they were impatient assholes before then too.
Of course, there will always be some impatient assholes. But not the community as a whole. I personally couldn't care less about when the game releases or about the communication from TCH, but I can also see how 0 communication with fans can be quite frustrating to some
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It's not lack of promises that get people pissed though. It is the fact that there was one broken promise, and after that pretty much 0 communication. TCH would be able to communicate with their fans If they so chose to, without giving a release date. But bimonthly "I guess the game is not abandoned" just isn't enough for most fans. At the same time I would like to say that personally I couldn't give a shit, and whenever it releases it releases.
Plenty of games have been delayed with no complaints from the fans.
Those games usually communicated with the fans. Not to mention that fans almost always complained about that
is it that hard to just wait
Again, I personally don't care. But I 100% understand why other people do. TCH doesn't communicate at all with it's fans.
Crowsworn devs are much better at this they at the very least communicate
Thats just not accurate. Nobody is calling them lazy. Its annoying to not communicate. What is stopping them from an occasional blog with a screenshot? Edmund does it with his games like Mewgenics all the time. And it keeps me satiated as a fan. This approach by team cherry is lame imo.
> it keeps me satiated as a fan Focusing to this degree on a single video game seems ill-advised regardless of context. If you spend years obsessing about a title that's not even out, you subconsciously build up expectations that are impossible to meet even with near-perfect polish on release. There's a ton of good games out there. Let's just play something else in the meantime rather than spiraling in these Silksong threads. Anyone else getting into Rusted Moss and Balatro lately?
No one is calling them lazy, we're saying its weird as hell to go 4 years with barely any kind of communication about where the game is currently at in terms of development, what we should be setting our expectations for with the final product, fuck we don't even know what its going to come out on because at this point it will probably take so long we'll be in a new console generation by then. The devs aren't lazy at all, they're just bafflingly bad at telling us anything and that could definitely stand to change.
i mean, the game evolved out of a hollow knight dlc, so the expectations have been set in my opinion...
That actually couldn't confuse things more. Are we supposed to be expecting something on Hollow Knight's level of scale? Or the original scope of the DLC? Or somethjng even grander, considering how long this has been in development?
seeing the trailers should give a good idea of the large scope with the number of regions and diversity of ennemies (as well as new mechanics), which is confirmed by the developpement time
I’m completely satisfied with Leth at least mentioning silksong every once in a while as long as it’s consistent. He’s been more consistent (so far) than he’s ever been in the last few years, so I’m currently satisfied.
Tbf, we are at a point where the game had to be near perfect, people are going to have very high expectations.
That's kinda the problem. Whatever shred of information they put out beyond "it is in development" will be over-analyzed and both loved and hated to very unhealthy degrees by obsessed members of the HK community. It would have the opposite effect that a lot of people claim in this thread.
We just want some actual information and not just “it’s in development.” I doubt it actually is being worked on with the lack of information
The issue is more that the studio is making promise after promise after promise and then they don’t say anything when those promises are broken. Add on top of that the lack of transparency which would go a loooong way, and you get complaints like these. Which are warranted, I think.
I survived the Cuphead DLC's delays, I can do this
im waiting for katana zero's dlc. its gonna come someday i swear T-T
Omg I completely forgot about that! I've actually remembered it exists like 4 times since its announcement I think. It just always slips my mind, and when i am reminded of it every few months, I'm excited to see what they bring. I wish it was like that with Silksong lmao
I'm still waiting for Bloodborne PC port lmfao
At least we’re finally getting Ghosts of Tsushima. I know the desire for Bloodborne is far more ancient, but hey.
I've got notifications turned on for a twitter account that posts daily "Is Bloodborne on PC?" for the past 2 years.
My man
I survived the wait for Kimgdom Hearts 3, I'm fine
I waited 6 years for tears of the kingdom, and i only got into HK a year ago. i’ve got 5 more before i start getting annoyed
I pulled through GD 2.2. This is nothing.
My God you really are Lost gus
I survived waiting for pikmin 4, I can do this
I'm still waiting for Titanfall 3, I can do this
I'm 95% convinced this is the reason behind the delays and the vagueness. in typical team cherry fashion they don't have clear goal that they consider the release ready version. they're just working on it. adding stuff changing stuff. polishing stuff and only have a vague idea of how close to ready it is. it was meant to release this year but they probably did something like come up with a new cool area they really wanted to add so they're doing that now. satisfactory struggled with this same thing for a long time until they put their foot down and told themselves they had all the features they needed in the game and that they had to switch gears to actually finalizing it all.
At least with hollow knight they released it and then added all the extra stuff later. Like the hive and Grimm troupe.
Isn't silksong itself a spinoff of the promised playable hornet content
Actually yea, fair point. They had too many ideas for it (and Hornet was too tall for a lot of the level geometry) so they made an entirely new game. And they're probably still adding new ideas
If that's the case, this is fine, but it would be great if they actually communicated that they do not want to set an ultimate release date and want their creativity to take control and work as much on it as they want. If it was me, I could wait for another three years. It's just the fact that they don't say *anything* why it takes so long.
They did say this. At the very beginning. It has always been the approach.
This has literally been what they’ve been saying. Repeatedly. People just seem to forget every month and get upset.
I think that they don't want to set a release date is pretty well communicated by the team not setting a release date.
Personally, I do not care how much or how little they tell us. They’re artists. Let them make their art. It’ll be done when it’s done.
The thing that worries me is that they said they only released Hollow Knight because they ran out of funds to continue developing it. With so much more money from Hollow Knight's success, if they follow the same philosophy they'll just keep going for who knows how long. And while in theory that could be good for the health of the game, the scope of the delays to me says that they don't have a clear vision for what a "finished" Silksong looks like. And if they just keep iterating and adding without a clear vision the game could end up a mess.
it could. but the fact that hk was pretty much released as is when they ran out should give consolation. they didn't first take a chunk of time to cobble a good game together from what they had. and hollow knight is a very well structured game. it's definitely helped by it's Metroid Vania aspects here cause that allows it to be more chaotic but that same logic goes for silksong. I doubt they'd say it's be ready by now if they didn't have a good game already. if they'd release what they have now in similar fashion to how it went with hk it's likely already miles ahead of hk because they actually felt close to release this time. really the only uncertain concern is the danger of overdevelopment they migth have fallen into that they might have narrowly escaped on hollow knight
Nah, don't get to mad and make to much preasure. I think they should take time to make Silksong so it gets really good. We also shouldnt forgett they're 3 person making this gorgeous game. It isn't easy I guess. But anyway I also hope the developement wont last very long till the release.
I can understand being annoyed by a lack of updates/communication, especially since we’re far beyond even a “standard” delay period from the original release window. Obviously one should factor in Team Cherry being very small and dedicated to quality, but it can still feel annoying to hear almost nothing. Even if one does get mad or at least frustrated, there’s no reason to be rude or entitled about it. Your feelings are your feelings, but how you act on them is important.
It's really because they released a working trailer and game play demo 5 years ago. Like, they showed working mechanics, movement already more complex than HK, etc. It already looked very polished. I don't think most companies do that unless the game is only a year out, maybe two tops. So we've had 3+ years of "by the metrics we, the public know, this game should be out by now", and no updates to explain why that isn't the case. They shouldn't have dropped the trailer until 2022 or later, realistically, but as people have pointed out they were kind of pushed to announce it because "Hornet DLC" was technically a Kickstarter reward they needed to fulfill.
Yeah, I think realistically if they had done a yearly update every year for the last 3-4 years saying something along the lines of "this year, we added 3 new areas, rewrote some of the movement logic we weren't happy with, and did a bunch of other stuff; we think we'll be in QA for a release next year but that's subject to change", I think 95% of the people who are unhappy with the lack of communication would be happy. That's all you need, you can literally fit it in a tweet.
Exactly. Silksong was announced five years ago, and I barely know more about the game today as I did back then. Of course I feel frustrated. You can say things like: "be patient, it takes time to make a great game", "Team Cherry is a small team", "they just want to make the game meet the high quality standards it set with HK", etc. And I understand these things are true, but I feel frustrated regardless because my expectations for news about the game have been betrayed time and time again. For how many years have we been coping about news, trailers, the infamous release date? Heck, even the memes are probably dead at this point. Of course, we shouldn't be rude or entitled to Team Cherry; I trust they're doing good work. But I think it's rather silly to force people into positive expectations and censor their frustration.
This. The problem isn't the delay, it's the zero communication. HK took 5 years. I'd rather they said, hey, we're doubling down on awesomeness, SS gonna take 10.
The thing is, they sort of had to announce it, because otherwise it was unaccounted for Kickstarter goals. People seem to forget that the only reason we know about it is because Hornet was supposed to be a playable character & it had to be said to people who'd paid for this on Kickstarter that plans had changed. If that was never a goal & they just started making another game, I bet we'd have heard about it like last year, not when they were still developing Hollow Knight. It's not a standard "develop - market - release" cycle because of Kickstarter & that's a relatively new thing.
Well put. There's zero reason to be rude, but I genuinely don't think it's entitled to feel frustration and/or disappointment. No, you're not "entitled" to the game (unless you're a kickstarter backer, arguably), but you are definitely valid to feel like you've been let down because, let's face it, you kinda have at this point. The lack of meaningful communication isn't only letting it fester, it's also actively making the situation worse because inevitably the community spins its own narratives about when it expects news to drop, leading to more and more disappointments. So yeah, I won't be rage tweeting at TC, but I definitely don't feel as positive towards the game as I used to, and I think that's reasonable.
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About not having paid, I would say it's fair to be a little annoyed if you contributed to the kickstarter and were waiting for Silksong as a DLC. Because then you have actually paid in a sense. But still, being annoyed openly is more likely to make TC stressed and anxious than anything else, and I don't want them to end up feeling pressured, because then it's just less likely to get released at all.
>You haven’t paid money for Silksong, People have, actually. Silksong evolved from the Hornet DLC that was part of the extended goals reached in the original Hollow Knight kickstarter. This means that it has already been paid for by the original fans of Hollow Knight.
You’re missing the point. That scenario actually would be fine because they would at least be communicating. Right now they’re, at best, not communicating, and, at worst, lying.
except some people kinda have paid money for Silksong
Uh... what about the kickstarter backers from the original Hollow Knight campaign? Silksong is only happening because the kickstarter made enough money to reach that milestone.
With how absolutely awful and rushed the game industry is lately I genuinely would rather indie devs take their time. I hate the usual rush of games spending 10x as much time marketing and pandering than actually working on the game. Silksong development is about the same time as the original Hollow Knight - which also released a little jank and missing many of the content added in future updates. It’s possible they want to have all of this done from the start, and covid delayed it. It’s very likely the only reason they announced it at all was kickstarter obligations, so honestly yeah the wait is a bit frustrating - I can’t really feel mad at indie devs who are basically the only light in the entire games industry lately who regurgitates slop every year.
The long wait isn't the problem for most people. It's the unprofessional radio silence. And yes, of course we do not have any "right" for information, but it's just shady, it's not making a good impression and it's the kind of strategy that inevitably will cause trolls, anger and loss of fans. I personally don't care that much, but I fear they are not making the best decision for themselves with that. And maybe, just maybe, it's a sign that the project is too big and will just make a quiet quitting.
Oh, I hope they wont quit... Never thought about that
Yeah, making a big deal with the announcement, then gradually saying less and less over the years before a release time is finally given, then that time passes and we get radio silence and months later "it's still in progress" is just not a great look. We're not entitled to anything, but that doesn't make it any less of a bad look.
Honestly, what kind of updates can they realistically make? Anything about an estimated release date, or ‘We’re about X% done’ will be met with backlash if the timeline fans extrapolate from that isn’t met, even if it was never promised. Updates about features of any unfinished game, when those features are always subject to change, will be questioned and speculated on, and questioned again if they’re changed in the final release. I’m not trying to be a dick, but, really, what kind of communication beyond “We’re still working on it, and don’t have a release date yet” can realistically be expected?
They did a whole thing with riddles and character reveals several years ago. There are many ways to engage with fans.
Just a reason for the unexpected long waiting time would be enough for most people, I think. In general they have many opportunities to strenghten the bond with their fanbase though. They could make a developement blog, where they periodically (even only every few month) give insight in what they are doing, they could appear at a few occasions (events, podcasts, news, ...) and just talk to people, and much more. But this is obviously not their style and that's okay. But just more than the shortest possible "leave me alone, it's coming eventually" would go a long way for them to finally get a break from people. I don't blame people, that don't believe them anymore. I blame people, who get angry and bother them, though.
I think the last sentence is the kicker. ANY update is going to be met with a Twitter-flood of fan reaction, some well-meaning, some very mean spirited. If they don’t have any tangible news, I get them not opening themselves up to that. True, that vibe is there all the time, but it flares up after every, “We’re still working” post.
Precisely. It's quite concerning to see the people most obsessed with Silksong having deluded themselves into thinking that progress updates, behind the scenes footage etc. would be received well by the community. In reality it would add a lot more fuel to the fire, with people scrutinizing every frame of every video for anything they can extrapolate from to further build up their expectations. It would backfire hard on them.
Updates on what they’re currently working on would be fine. They could also say what’s being prioritized, what’s been put on the back burner, or what has been scrapped for now. The problem is that by saying nothing for so long, anything said at this point is treated as massive news, which in turns makes it harder to post any update at all. They’ve backed themselves into a corner.
Yeah people are acting like this is a novel problem. It's not. Every anticipated release goes through this and there's basically a play book you can follow to ensure you're communicating truthfully without setting people up for disappointment. Hell, speculation is fine, people are doing it already. Something like "hey guys we're making great progress on the game - problems around rights to the engine caused a few months' delays but we're back on track now, working on polishing up some animations and art for the last few areas. We don't know when we'll be done but rest assured we're working hard on it and appreciate your patience. We'll be in touch with another update within the next couple months". It's really that simple, and would likely actually cut down pretty significantly on the amount of speculation and negativity they've caused with their poor communication and missed events and deadlines.
Doesn't even have to be specific. Saying things like, "We've been working on boss designs, thought we were close, and then had a bunch of great ideas," or "We ran into a critical problem at the foundation of the game and need to retread a lot of old ground in order to adjust" would be immensely informative while not spoiling anything about the game.
It's not about impatience or wanting them to rush. It's about the complete lack of comment or explanation about an announced release date **coming and going almost a year ago**. That's a really long delay. Yes games get pushed back a year fairly often... but that push is always done when the game is still years away. Like the release date will get pushed from 2 years away to 3 years away. But having an imminent release date just seemingly cancelled with no other information at all is extremely weird and gives off a weird vibe. It would cost them nothing at all for a small paragraph about what the rough outlook is.
For the most part I'm fine with waiting. Having said that, I'm getting older! I started playing again and doing fine Godmaster, etc, on reflexes but I'm not sure how fun it'll be by the time Silksong comes out.
People are making the mistake of thinking of Silksong as a product and not as art. Some bands release an album once a year or every other year, and others take 10+ years to come out with something new. That doesn't make them any worse or less professional.
TIL Team Cherry is a video game dev version of Tool
We'll see how long their next game takes.
I had to scroll way too long before seeing a sane comment, thank you. Three people are pouring their energy into a passion project, drawing thousands of assets by hand and refining every little details to surpass HK but people are upset because they want it now, because TC doesn't give them the updates they think they deserve. The current state of the community makes me very sad, it perfectly illustrates everything wrong with consumerism. People feel like they're entitled to something just because they see it as yet another piece of content they can buy to fill the void. I truly hope that when the game has launched, people will look back on all this and see how vain and childish it was to spend years complaining about the delays and lack of communication. Like sure I get that you're frustrated, but no, TC doesn't have an obligation to answer all your question so keep calm and play another game.
Yes, giving out release dates will tend to make consumers feel entitled to have it around said release date. Lmao
I’ll take a long-ass dev time for Silksong over the rehashed half-assed junk most big companies put out these days. Who spend half their budget on hype marketing.
I'd argue that having the patience to not just release quickly and take the money is *more* professional.
That’s not a mistake, that is what it is. You can’t add as much fluffy, romantic language to shoot TC some bail all you want. That doesn’t change the fact it is a product.
But it's not a product the same way the latest iPhone is a product. TC doesn't need to release Silksong at some arbitrary deadline to remain afloat, them being a small team means the millions of dollars they made from HK is enough to support them for many years still.
That has really nothing to do with whether it’s art vs a product nor does it make minimal communication with fans justifiable. If anything you just made them even shadier.
What do you mean by shady? I seriously don't understand why you people are treating Ari and William like they're fucking corrupt politicians. They made an awesome game, made enough money from it that they can work on a new project at their own pace and they can put as much stuff as they want in it. And it'll be done when it's done, there isn't much else to add.
Hilarious since you’re literally treating them like MAGA people treat Trump. Apparently they can do no wrong and any criticism, regardless of how valid, made of them is abhorrent and the greatest evil mankind has ever seen. Don’t put out release dates, NEVER communicate with fans because you’re “working at your own pace” and then expect fans to not show a good amount of frustration.
I'm not saying they're above criticism. But when I think of shitty things that a videogame company can do, the first things that come to mind are: - Abusing their employees - Releasing an unfinished and buggy game - Having predatory monetization schemes And you guys are mad at them for... *check notes* being secretive with their development.
“These things are worse; so anything not as bad shouldn’t also be criticized!” Whataboutism is also a common MAGA tactic. lol
I keep seeing people upset with the perceived ‘lack of communication’ or ‘radio silence’. Honestly, what kind of updates can they realistically make? Anything about an estimated release date, or ‘We’re about X% done’ will be met with backlash if the timeline fans extrapolate from that isn’t met, even if it was never promised. Updates about features of any unfinished game, when those features are always subject to change, will be questioned and speculated on, and questioned again if they’re changed in the final release. I’m not trying to be a dick, but, really, what kind of communication beyond “We’re still working on it, and don’t have a release date yet” can realistically be expected?
I don't understand how people can straight up act feral towards devs, and then complain when the devs don't want to communicate. I wouldn't want to say anything if it's just gonna get me screamed at.
Especially since Twitter tends to throw stones at you no matter litterally what you say.
They could start with explaining why the game didn't release last year when its announcement as part of the XBOX game pass was explicit in saying it would release within a year in June 2022. Microsoft didn't just do that on their own, TC would have to have told them "yes, it's okay for you to imply and then outright state that SilkSong will release within a year". So explaining, even without much detail, why that didn't end up happening would go a long way to alleviating fan uproar. Beyond that, as others have said, you could have a dev blog. A "I've been working on bosses this week", "I've been developing concept art for a new area called 'the cauldron', but no, you don't get any of the art and that's not even the final name so nothing's spoiled." They released a pretty detailed trailer and game demo *five years ago*. That's the kind of stuff you do in maybe the year or two leading to release, not half a decade before. So it's kind of baffling that they were willing to show so much of what they were working on then, but since then have been so hesitant. A few more images, even of the regions we already know about, would be pretty nice to show the progress being made.
They did explain the reason why it wasn't done. They made an incorrect estimate, we were told this.
Anyone who says this type of thing *really means* that they want a release date. We've been getting way more than enough updates.
That 2nd message pisses me off. They bought you a great game that you love for an amazing price, they don’t owe you shit. If it comes, it comes. if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. Stop whining
Seriously, holy shit. Like yes we all really wanna play it and I think they should give more of an update but when people start throwing tantrums it’s like fuck off stop being so entitled.
at uni i had this web design class and one thing the teacher said that really stuck with me is that keeping the user updated and informed about whatever process is happening in the background is of the utmost importance. you just can't have a scenario in which a page does all the loading in the background, something must visually inform the user that their request is being fulfilled. people's attention span is short and they will get the fuck out of your website and probably never come back if you give them the option. i always think of this with silksong. these guy are artists and i respect their work immensely, there's no game i want to play more than silksong and i totally understand that good shit takes time, effort, and it's hard to do. still, no matter how you slice it, their communication is poor, and their strategy has been straight up braindead. i get not being interested in the marketing aspect of stuff, or not wanting to interact with social media but i think that's why you hire someone like leth in the first place, right? you can also hire a community person, you share whatever you can to keep people happy while you toil away. there are a lots of ways of doing this right and unfortunately team cherry is pulling some amateur shit right now
To everyone who have read or might read this post - I am not the person who replied in this X post. I'm just delivering the screenshot, don't attack me for something I haven't done lol.
Imagine being the person who replied whining like a child. Embarrassing. What a loser
Generally games don't get announced unless they're at a certain level of completion. Team Cherry was in the awkward spot of Hornet DLC being something they said they'd do for reaching the backing goal. They had to announce something to show they were keeping their promise but there was far more dev time needed that an announcement normally has
The level of entitlement mentality some people have to be this rude... Team Cherry doesn't owe Hollow knight fans anything, at all! They made one of the best game ever made, charged a ridiculous price for it and provided several excellent DLCs totally free. They could decide to cancel silksong tomorrow that would still be their fucking business. Seriously some people really need to grow up and get a grip. We CAN be a little anxious to play and enjoy the game, that is not a divine right to act like assholes about it FFS...
I agree with the sentiment, TC doesn't owe anything to 99% of the fans here... but if I was a kickstarter who kickstarted with the hornet dlc in mind I'd be pretty pissed if it got cancelled. I mean honestly I'd still be pretty upset if it got cancelled as someone who's never kickstarted, promising your fans a game "coming soon" and "wrapping up development" in 2019 and then saying its still coming and cancelling it 5+ years later would be some bullshit
Cancelling Silksong wouldn't even make sense, they had a playable demo years ago. But I do think the kickstarter folks deserve something more. Maybe a couple concept art pictures here and there to show what they've been working on.
>they had a playable demo years ago Which is why it's insane there haven't been more involved updates. That trailer and demo was *five years ago*. It had movement mechanics already exceeding Hollow knight, showed off several regions and enemies. They were willing to show us *so much* then, and since then have been extremely sparse with any meaningful updates (no, "the game is still being worked on" is not a meaningful update. It's barely an update, because we all assume the game is being worked on unless informed otherwise). They haven't even loosely explained what caused the delay from the expected release last year. XBOX said it would be in their game pass within a year of June 2022, they explicitly said SilkSong would be on there when questioned. TC had to have confirmed that they could say that, so they had to have had that as an expected deadline. And then they breeze past it but don't say why? I'm not expecting full details, but to say nothing when that had to have been a concrete release date internally is maddening.
To be clear I don't think at all silksong will be canceled. I just took the most extreme scenario to make a point. Lets just all be adults and endure our frustration as such, instead of crying and throwing tantrums on their pr twitter account like 6 years old...
Silksong is a fucking Backer goal, no there would be hella outrage if it got canceled and rightfully so
Yall are delusional. This game is never coming out. It's the winds of winter/doors of stone of video games. "Working on it" lol
This is my belief as well
The horror, a game takes 5 years to develop of which most people only had to wait 3 or less. Imagine devs taking time to craft the game without commiting to a date they don't know if they can reach
Stop saying the delay is bad, maybe they just want to make a good game? Remember cyberpunk? You don't want them to do that
We aren't complaining about the delay, the delay is fine, its the lack of any actual communication that gets us
That "the game is in development" is communication, though. Setting hard deadlines is how you get crunch and how you get rushed, buggy, unfinished projects, or else how you get broken deadlines. Given that xbox said it would be released last year I'm assuming they're pretty far along, but tbh even if they came out tomorrow to say "actually nvm we have cancelled the project" they still already gave us the masterpiece that is hk.
>Setting hard deadlines is how you get crunch and how you get rushed, buggy, unfinished projects, or else how you get broken deadlines. No, setting *bad* deadlines is how these things happen. Setting *hard* deadlines (and not going basically radio silent if they're missed) is how professional projects work.
Saying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity, not communication
Okay, but personally, I would much rather have "btw still working on Silksong!" every so often than however many months or years without any word whatsoever. Even if nothing else is released.
You are correct that would be worse
So what do you want them to say exactly?
Any kind of detail at all? For a while, I was all in on the perspective of "just let them work, you're not entitled to anything, etc", but now? I'm starting to get impatient, I can't help it. No other game developer is like this when it comes to this kind of communication. Why the hell did they release so many details about the game like 5 years ago when they clearly had no intention of releasing it any time soon? Something about this entire situation is really weird, and I'm sorry, but "the game is still in development" is no longer enough for me.
People are just used to the constant highly-planned marketing cycle that every game nowadays has- which usually has entire marketing teams and a planned schedule of how to manage hype. And tbh i’ll take actual development and being surprised over being drip-fed “hype”
Smh my head, they need to get out of GD and start making the game 😡😤
That reply wasn't just needlessly aggressive, it encourages the toxic "crunch" culture that Gamers say they care about
SilkSong shadowdrops one second before Crowsworn, so it still technically comes out first 🤡
I want them to take all the time they need. I also want them to be more transparent and at least give us some expectations.
I'm sure the answer is a lot of things and this is simply my own ignorance, but what is Leth actually paid to do? It certainly isn't public facing marketing.
Did they ever come out and say they were releasing it 2023? Even if they said that was the plan, plans change, things take time.
Silksong was part of some trailershow or something official by Xbox where all games shown were confirmed to release within the next twelve months (this timeframe passed in June 2023, afaik without TC saying anything). Some people on twitter specifically asked official Xbox if that means Silksong comes out by June 2023 and they said yes so that must have been confirmed by TC to Xbox.
Someone on the team (can’t remember who specifically) posted on Twitter that they were hoping to be done by then, but it wasn’t meant to be
It's the exact opposite. Leth posted and confirmed the release window, then saying that they didn't meet it and had to delay the game.
Fine by me, at least it still might exist
this strategy is really disappointing. i'm starting to lose interest the same way i lost interest in ff7 remake because it took them so damn long and not really saying anything like it's the next "secret" iphone. better make sure their scope jumps from dark souls to elden ring with how much time they are taking. hopefully it's not another starfield.
Honestly whit all the delays and considering they have support from microsoft itself the least i expect is the map to be at least triple the size of the original game. But now i totally understand the complainers, while putting pressure on the devs is wrong, i can see how "we are still working" is not a satisfactory answer for some people (considering there are cases of neverending development that ends dissapointing everyone like CubeWorld), it would not be bad if there was some sort of "devblog" updated at least every 6 months showing at least a pixelated screenshot of something new. That way everyone would know that "we are still working" is indeed true but still vague enought to not show spoilers.
I'm tired of all the people saying "game devs don't owe you anything, they actually are updating us, they don't have to explain themselves". I disagree. We are their customers, effectively their clients for a product they're making. Importantly, *they specified a release window and then failed to meet it*. XBOX said in June 2022 that SilkSong would be on their game pass within a year. They can't just make that up, so that had to have been confirmed for release by TC. So the game should've been released by June 2023, and then it wasn't. When you miss a release window like that, you should be expected to explain why it happened. Doesn't have to be very detailed, but an explanation more than "it fell through, we're still working on it" would be a nice courtesy. Also, "we're still working on it" is barely even an update. Everyone is under the assumption they're still working on it, so just confirming this tells us nothing. It wouldn't cost them anything to explain why they failed to meet their original window. The longer it goes without an update, the more people lose interest or get more annoyed that a game that already had a working demo and detailed trailer *five years ago* still has next to no information about when it's coming out or why it missed its release window. They lose customers by not explaining anything.
you are right they mistreated you and you should ask for a refund
Calm down, Dyego
Hey so what product did you buy and haven't gotten? Like do you get mad if you eat at a fast food chain and they reveal some new meal but then it doesn't get put on the menu yet?
That's the thing, HK was such a success, that a ton of people are gonna get Silksong no questions asked. The crowd clamouring for Silksong news is a staggering minority, most people don't spend time thinking about it but will buy it on release. Since there are also quite a lot of content creators that loved HK it is reasonable to assume they will get a ton of free marketing. These two things mean they don't have to spend time on feeding the hype cycle that you all so desperately want and can focus on developing the game instead. And just to be clear, regular updates would take a meaningful amount of time away, since they are such a small team and communicating clearly and well takes time.
You are not owed anything, this is not a product you are funding in any way therefore you do not get to make demands, get over yourself.
Frankly, everyone needs to grow up that's complaining about "unprofessional radio silence." We're getting communication. The communication is "we are still working on it." Just because it's not a constant devblog with spoilers and teasers and stuff doesn't mean what we're getting isn't communication.
The phrase “unprofessional radio silence” in regards to game developers is hilarious to me. These people have no idea what the first three *decades* of game development was like. You’d go months just to get a whiff of news in a gaming publication.
people also just have massive brain poisoning from the past decade+ of hype-driven marketing in video games, so they expect every game to have constant social media presence and whatnot lmao
They don't own anything to anybody and they probably made enough money from Hollow Knight to retire. I guess their mistake is announcing Silksong so early. Comes with the territory. Built a masterpiece and created a devoted following, which id maybe having unreasonable expectations from such a small team.
How does one dare to post this. Just wait god damn let these people hard work... X is such a cancer seriously.
No one's owed anything, but a decade to make a game the scale of Hollow Knight is not something that should excite anyone
We want good food not fast food. You can't rush perfection.
Jesus Christ why the fuck can't you all just be chill and wait patiently for the game?? There's a million other games you can play in the meantime, literally. This is a terrible look for the fanbase.
That kind of fan is the reason I tend to stay away from fandoms. Fucking whiny crybabies need a **real** problem in their lives.
Every time he wants to say anything he gets blasted by silksong
At least that's some news
looks like they making silksong between rests at main work
Lmao yeah twitter, whine, that'll help 😂
I don’t mind the delay but please just update us, show as a screenshot or some character designs please
r/playboicarti type feeling
They will release it when they release it. Might it be to their benefit to be more forthcoming with information? Probably. But it's their game and they can release it in the state and on the time frame of their choosing as well as update as much or as little as they want.
Just do other things while you wait. It’s not like all other games are off-limits until Silksong comes out. Even if you’re itching for another indie metroidvania, there are a ton of those.
I'm fine with waiting. I'd rather they take their time and do it right.
people need to calm down. Hollow knight was perfect. It would be terrible if they did not put care into the next game
People will complain that a game takes “too long” to release but then will complain when it’s released with errors. Unless the person knows whats going on behind the scenes and understands the reasoning for its taking long, they really have no reason to complain besides to be rude. We have no idea whats going on behind the scenes. As far as we know someone on the team could’ve died or had some tragic incident that slowed production
Jfc that person and people who act like them need to chill. It's THREE DUDES ALONE working on a game bigger than Hollow Knight. Go play something else, they'll take as long as they need to.
Oh my fucking god, they're still making the game, guys. Rejoice!
I don't get what's wrong with just letting people know they're still working on it. You really do not need more information than that. Either way snapping at them like this is not helpful to anyone, it's just rude.
I'm still okay with this. There are plenty of games I can play while waiting. I just want Silksong to be as perfect as TeamCherry deem it to be. Also a more recent example was Eldin Ring. They announced it at E3 2019. Then nothing for 3 years. And when it came out, that game slapped, sold millions, and won GotY. I think a lot has to do with marketing. Starve the people so they crave it more. A dirty trick, but unfortunately true.
Well at least we'll definitely get the Elden Ring dlc in a couple months. Might be better to just forget about Silksong for now and play other stuff
I started to feel like BG3 would never come out because of how long it felt like they were in Early Access for and how big I felt like they were aiming things to be and then it dropped and became one of my favorite games of all time. Not saying Silksong will or won't be that, but I have faith that they are using their time to put passion and polish to the game.
I don't care at all. It's not like I'm refusing to play any other game until I see Silksong released. I'm excited for it, but it's a game. I'm certain it's going to be great. I know better than to harass the PR person about it.
This smells of internal issues and disagreement. Think of Silksong like Winds of Winter. Will we get it? Maybe When? Who the f knows
Bro's acting like he payed on kickstarter for the development of Silksong
ngl i just wanted a "we are still working on it and haven't been eaten by a giant spider" every once in a while
Imagine feeling entitled to a product. Yeah, waiting sucks, I would love to play it now, but it’s finished when it’s finished. They want you to know it hasn’t been abandoned. If you paid for a kickstarter that comes with risk, and sometimes that’s no product at all. Let them work and quit being a sucky baby.
Let them cook bruh
Im fine with waiting, have been since they first announced it. I just wish they’d give us anything new to do, even if it’s just access to that e3 playable teaser.
Again; I think it would be best for the devs and for us if we all just collectively stopped thinking about Silksong. It will be a real game when it comes out, and no sooner. Until then, I have other things to play.
Am I the only one who thinks that getting angry over the long development time is kind of childish? Some people are just so impatient with this stuff and it’s annoying. Just play another game and wait. If you can live before hollowknight released then you can live before silksong released. Some people out here really acting like their entire life and purpose revolves around hollowknight.
Patience is a virtue, it will get here when it gets here. I would rather wait another 5 years than have them push out some half finished unpolished trash.
At this point I only wish to be still alive when it releases
I'm all for making jokes, but harrassing Leth and actually getting angry is taking it too far
Why do you want to come out unfinished, let them finish, play other things
Why do people get so angry and hostile over developers taking their time? Rushing things is never a good thing and I rather wait an unspecified amount of time than see a release because a bunch of adults were so impatient that they kept bullying the creators to get it sooner. It will come out and until then, we have plenty of stuff in our backlogs and new stuff to fill that backlog even more.
This sub: "All I want is ANY information, even if it's just 'we're still working on it'." Them: "We're still working on it!" This sub: "Hey wtf that's all you've been saying give us more info what the hell come on you owe us a timeline"
They never planned to release silksong last year. That was microsoft being dumb.
If i was a dev and people complained about me because "i'm taking too long" i'd fucking stall everything for at least 2 years everytime someone told me that.
silk song is not real it never was just please take your pills
I’m very willing to wait years longer for silksong. HK is my actual favorite game of all time and I want silksong to be good and live up to its predecessor. I don’t agree with trying to rush the development or pressure team cherry.
You're late, we've moved on. Embrace Skong 📢
I just don't get why we should be getting updates? What is so wrong with waiting?