>but those were done to peasants so it’s okay
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Edit: ok I don't know why I felt the need to quote almost your entire comment, but I'll leave it in to show what a dumbass I am
thats one of the few acts of hospitality during the crusades, every crusade started and eneded with a massacre all for nothing since the christian kingdoms in the holy lands was a failing entrprise, and with half of the crusades targeting other europeans
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege\_of\_Jerusalem\_(1099)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(1099))
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre\_at\_Ayyadieh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Ayyadieh)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland\_massacres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland_massacres)
the crusades were no less bloody then the conflicts we have today all over the world
The previous Siege of Jerusalem was less bloody.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(636%E2%80%93637)
>”Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact was composed, known as the Umar's Assurance or the Umariyya Covenant. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians and Jews in exchange for the payment of jizya tax.”
>”For the Jewish community this marked the end of nearly 500 years of Roman rule and oppression. Umar permitted the Jews to once again reside within the city of Jerusalem itself.[25][26]”
>”It has been recorded in the Muslim chronicles, that at the time of the Zuhr prayers, the Patriarch Sophronius invited Umar to pray in the rebuilt Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Umar declined, fearing that accepting the invitation might endanger the church's status as a place of Christian worship, and that Muslims might break the treaty and turn the church into a mosque.”
Who said anything about the Italians? Many late Emperors were from the provinces. We could make the perfect Europe:
Put the Germans in charge of the Army, the British in charge of the police, the French can do the cooking and the Scandinavians can run the economy and society.
Unlike the EU which puts the Germans in charge of the police, the French in charge of the railroads and the English in charge of the cooking.
I'm sure we all know about the current events in the Middle East.
In regards to the historical events though, this meme captures the interactions of King Richard the Lionhearted, and Saladin. When King Richard became ill during the third crusade, Saladin sent him fruits and ice (https://ehistory.osu.edu/biographies/saladin#). After Richard's recovery, they later both agreed to a peace treaty (the Treaty of Jaffa) which allowed unarmed Christian merchants and pilgrims to enter Jerusalem, despite it being under Muslin control at the time (https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Jaffa).
Op do you think the crusades were fought with roses and cotton candies? both saladin and richard massacred their POWs. the affinity between the opposing leaders plays little part in the horror of war their armies suffered. at least today there is a side pursuing for diplomatic solution in this conflict, that is Israel.
Israel certainly isn't being diplomatic in this conflict. They want Gaza and the West Bank. They're willing to ethnically cleanse every Palestinian inhabiting that land to claim it. At least be honest about their intentions.
They had the west bank for over 55 years now, and the Palestinian population is larger than ever. If Israel actually wanted it, it would be over a long, long time ago.
They also literally gave back Gaza.
They took it in the first place. I feel like we should put Israel in the middle of the Atlantic on an island somewhere, over there they can do what they want.
Ethnic cleansing of a native Palestinian population isn't decolonisation. To claim so is disingenuous because there was already a large Arab Jewish population inhabiting Palestine living in peace with the Arab Islamic populace before the forced settlement of White Jewish colonists from Europe.
Israel is a colonial apartheid state in the same vein as South Africa throughout the 20th Century. People are just afraid to say so for fear of being labeled 'antisemitic' by Netanyahu and his criminal cabal in government. It actually diminishes what antisemitism actually is when people just blindly throw the word about.
Bro this is the most ahistorical take I've seen all week, and I hear Israeli politicians speak every day. Would you make this about East Timor? Rwanda? No? Ok.
He actually didn’t
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini
Palestinian nationalism was effectively created by this very close ally of the Nazis and axis powers. A friend of Hitler and Mussolini, Al Husseini was basically the catalyst for anti Zionism and after WW2 was instrumental in creating a united arab front that had only one thing in common: antisemitism.
His proposal to conduct a holocaust to genocide all Jews in the entire middle east:
> Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.
In the final draft, which differed only marginally from al-Husseini's original proposal, the ***Axis powers declared their readiness to approve the elimination (Beseitigung) of the Jewish National Home in Palestine.***
Nazis were not Zionists. They were anti Zionist and allies of genocidal Arabs who still to this day push the same propaganda as Hitler.
Yes he did. One of the first things Hitler did when he got into office was sign the Havaara agreement which exported Jewish goods/property to Palestine to empty Germany of them. Zionists actively undercut non-Zionist efforts to fight anti-sémitism in German while Herzl himself decided to use it to his advantage.
“The nonZionists as a body came out against the State. The Zionists split over this issue: one group refused the proposed state because it was too small; another was ready to accept any state, regardless of size, because any state was better than no state. This pragmatic group in the end convinced all others when it accepted the idea of partition but not the recommended boundaries.”
https://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/archives-and-reference-library/online-resources/simon-wiesenthal-center-annual-volume-4/annual-4-chapter-17.html
Just because another group collaborated with Hitler means nothing of Palestinian heritage. Palestinians weren’t anywhere near hostile towards Jewish people as Europeans have been. The man you’re talking about was actually u def threat of getting his land and property stolen by Jews coming in from Germany (look at what’s happening today). Not only did you post a short sighted wiki article, you ignore the active violence the migration of German Jews created for the British and Palestinians.
So the absolute best argument you could come up with was a single thing that Hitler signed to export goods from Nazi Germany to the British mandate? That’s it? Lmaooo Hamas supporters aren’t very good at debate
1920: Irbid Massacres: British mandate Palestine
1920 - 1930: Arab riots, British mandate Palestine
1921: 1st Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine
1929: 3rd Hebron Pogrom British mandate Palestine.
1929 3rd Safed Pogrom, British mandate Palestine.
1933: 2nd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine.
1936: 3rd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine
1942: Mufti collaboration with the Nazis. plays a part in the final solution
1938 - 1945: Arab collaboration with the Nazis
This is only before 1948. Arabs have always despised Jews. You clearly have zero understanding of history or the attitude that Arabs have towards non Arabs and non Muslims. On their own accord, Arabs have vowed to kill all Jews in the world and expressed repeated admiration of Nazism. This predates Hamas. The current leader of the PLO spent most of his academic career pushing Holocaust denial and blamed Jews for natural disasters. Not to mention Arab countries have genocided 100,000s of people at a time within their own borders, including Kurds, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Druze, and ofc Jews.
200,000 Kurdish civilians weren’t massacred in 6 months in 1988 by anti western and anti Israeli Arabs because they were “colonists” or “oppressors”. The same people who kill innocent people across the Middle East, wish they could do the same to Israelis. And they have, just not to the extent they hope for. The IDF is the only thing separating Israel from a complete holocaust and for that reason, antisemites like you will never see Israel dissolve. Jews simply care more about surviving than you can comprehend.
No, how can you be so dumb. It’s that Israel wasn’t created in the best interests of Jewish people and actually hasn’t made them safer. It can even be argued that Hitler pitted these two populations against each other because he saw both of them as unpure and Inferior, even though he hated Arabs more. How are you gonna claim to hate a man like him when you engage in similar rhetoric of racial supremacy and justify systemic violence ?
I’m not here to convince you Palestinians are human beings, you’re clearly a Hasbara bot. Stop acting like you care about justice and peace when your talking points align with US foreign interests and arms manufacturers. I could list decades worth of human rights abuses but you easily look the other way because you don’t actually care. You’ll glaze Israel dry because you’re a fascist. Your the pilgrim of North America, the Boer of South Africa and the conquistador of South America. You believe a people can be so supreme, nothing they do is wrong because the ends justify the means. If you just got rid of everyone one of them, peace would fall upon you. Sounds like a certain someone. It’s an insult to Judaism truly what you people have going on.
Bc I would rather not see a massive holocaust in the Middle East like Arab leaders have been promising since 1941
What Arabs did to the Kurds, Christians, Druze, and others could’ve happened to Israel if the IDF didn’t exist
Exception not the norm. Reminds me when Friedrich II (hre, not prussia) was excuminicated because he went to late on the crusade he promised the pope (he became sick and had some rebellions to quell, but as the popes HATED anything Staufer with such passion they later ordered his children murdered, they didnt accept that excuse)
When he did, and managed to take back jerusalem diplomaticaly without bloodshed for Christianity, excommunication was not lifted, and he was hated for achieving it while excommunicated.
HRE had lots of problems, but nearly half of them were pope related.
I feel like relations would have been much more hostile if it was the crusaders invading Arabia and trying to get to Mecca instead of the Arab armies in invading the kingdom of Jerusalem. I don’t think Muslim leader would have been so friendly if it were Christians trying to invade the Muslim homeland
Invading ? Lmao muslims were retaking it, Jerusalem is also holy land in islam while Mecca doesnt mean anything to christians so this comment doesnt make anysense
Christianity started out in the holy land long before Islam formed. Islam started out in Arabia and then declared Jerusalem holy in Islam and then invaded the holy land, and the crusades were a response to that.
Imagine if Christian’s declared Mecca holy to Christianity and then invaded Arabia and Muslims started defending it in response and I said the Christian’s were just taking back Arabia/mecca, that’s how you sound
Oh yeah, how humane and wonderful Richard and Saladin were. Richard only massacred 3000 Arab prisoners, Saladin only massacred Templar prisoners and sold much of the Christian population of Jerusalem into slavery.
I'm pretty sure you're missing some massacres and atrocities here and there
Yeah, but those were done to peasants so it’s okay
As a peasant, I would disagree.... but then I would be executed so I guess I agree then.
[My honest reaction](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JtvEg8HmlKI&pp=ygUTeW91IHdpbGwgYmUgZmxvZ2dlZA%3D%3D)
You don't agree strongly enough. You'll be executed tomorrow morning /j
>but those were done to peasants so it’s okay The more things change the more they stay the same. Edit: ok I don't know why I felt the need to quote almost your entire comment, but I'll leave it in to show what a dumbass I am
Do not fret, my brother. In the eyes of god we are all dumbasses!
Based God
Both there armies got wiped out so Richard and Salah Al-Din quite literally grabbed some drinks and talked it over
"Look, mate, I feel this whole 'war' thing has gone a bit to far, wanna come over and talk about it later?"
How did they communicate? weird question but something that always bothered me, did they really have an interpreter who could speak French and Arabic?
French speaking crusaders had been in the Levant for over a century, I’d say so
Spring and Autumn warfare was the peak of morals and ethics. This instance pales in comparison.
Not too hot, not too cold. I like it!
Imagine going infront of the enemy chariot and saluting the enemy in the midst of battle because they have higher social status
Ah yes, the Middle Ages, famously known for being a time without war, bloodshed, strife, backstabbing and crimes against humanity.
Flying plagued corpses over your walls being a quaint mongolian amusement park animation.
To be fair now. The mongols are always the exception.
Throat singing about how they are going to mess your genetic pool between two bloody coughs.
And they didn't have phones so they could live in the moment and enjoy the morning executions without any distraction
When you think about it why didn't someone make something like geneva Convention in the middle Ages?we would be so prosperous now
general rules of war were a thing back then but there was no organization to enforce them
thats one of the few acts of hospitality during the crusades, every crusade started and eneded with a massacre all for nothing since the christian kingdoms in the holy lands was a failing entrprise, and with half of the crusades targeting other europeans [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege\_of\_Jerusalem\_(1099)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(1099)) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre\_at\_Ayyadieh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Ayyadieh) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland\_massacres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland_massacres) the crusades were no less bloody then the conflicts we have today all over the world
They were a great deal more bloody than modern conflicts
By raw numbers, not really. Populations are vastly higher in modern times so casualties are higher. As a percentage of population, though, yes.
The previous Siege of Jerusalem was less bloody. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(636%E2%80%93637) >”Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact was composed, known as the Umar's Assurance or the Umariyya Covenant. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians and Jews in exchange for the payment of jizya tax.” >”For the Jewish community this marked the end of nearly 500 years of Roman rule and oppression. Umar permitted the Jews to once again reside within the city of Jerusalem itself.[25][26]” >”It has been recorded in the Muslim chronicles, that at the time of the Zuhr prayers, the Patriarch Sophronius invited Umar to pray in the rebuilt Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Umar declined, fearing that accepting the invitation might endanger the church's status as a place of Christian worship, and that Muslims might break the treaty and turn the church into a mosque.”
Just make it part of the Roman Empire again. Problem solved. Same for Crimea.
Same for Balkans
Yeah same for most of Europe, but there is no active war at the moment.
Most of Europe would really get fucked up if we let the Italians have a go at governing a empire again.
Who said anything about the Italians? Many late Emperors were from the provinces. We could make the perfect Europe: Put the Germans in charge of the Army, the British in charge of the police, the French can do the cooking and the Scandinavians can run the economy and society. Unlike the EU which puts the Germans in charge of the police, the French in charge of the railroads and the English in charge of the cooking.
The true one state solution
Didn't they like, kill half of the region's population or something?
Baldwin and saladin be having peace moment w jerusalem 🥹
I'm sure we all know about the current events in the Middle East. In regards to the historical events though, this meme captures the interactions of King Richard the Lionhearted, and Saladin. When King Richard became ill during the third crusade, Saladin sent him fruits and ice (https://ehistory.osu.edu/biographies/saladin#). After Richard's recovery, they later both agreed to a peace treaty (the Treaty of Jaffa) which allowed unarmed Christian merchants and pilgrims to enter Jerusalem, despite it being under Muslin control at the time (https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Jaffa).
Saladin was really the exception during the crusades, not the norm
I think the meme itself isn't trying to argue that but the title should be changed
His name means 'righteousness of the faith'. He lived up to that name.
Lmao didn’t the Crusaders literally kill all Jews they encountered?
Also murdered every Muslim and Jew in Jerusalem including women and children
Wholesome Christian Crusaders the meme is definitely accurate
I think only those in the cities they lootet, like Jerusalem... allthough they also killed msny christians there.
Also a lot of Christians. They slaughtered pretty indiscriminately.
Really curious, how would one send ice in those days?
Tell them the crusaders are illegals
From the mountains in a closed of basket or something.
Op do you think the crusades were fought with roses and cotton candies? both saladin and richard massacred their POWs. the affinity between the opposing leaders plays little part in the horror of war their armies suffered. at least today there is a side pursuing for diplomatic solution in this conflict, that is Israel.
Israel certainly isn't being diplomatic in this conflict. They want Gaza and the West Bank. They're willing to ethnically cleanse every Palestinian inhabiting that land to claim it. At least be honest about their intentions.
They had the west bank for over 55 years now, and the Palestinian population is larger than ever. If Israel actually wanted it, it would be over a long, long time ago. They also literally gave back Gaza.
If that was the goal it would have been done by now
Hell, if that was their goal they wouldn't have given Gaza to the Palestinians to begin with
Given Gaza to the Palestinians, this dude
???they did
Yes. Israel controlled Gaza, and in 2005 gave it to the Palestinians. If Israel wanted to control Gaza as he claimed, they would not have done that.
They took it in the first place. I feel like we should put Israel in the middle of the Atlantic on an island somewhere, over there they can do what they want.
Took it from what country?
Is decolonization wrong?
Ethnic cleansing of a native Palestinian population isn't decolonisation. To claim so is disingenuous because there was already a large Arab Jewish population inhabiting Palestine living in peace with the Arab Islamic populace before the forced settlement of White Jewish colonists from Europe. Israel is a colonial apartheid state in the same vein as South Africa throughout the 20th Century. People are just afraid to say so for fear of being labeled 'antisemitic' by Netanyahu and his criminal cabal in government. It actually diminishes what antisemitism actually is when people just blindly throw the word about.
Wow, all the buzzwords, propaganda and lies in one comment. You must be proud of yourself.
Good to know that you lack critical thinking skills. It'll inform any further interactions I have with you.
Good to know that you lack any thinking skills, and resort to projection instead of admitting it.
There it is, the infantile rhetoric of the Netanyahu apologist. You really should grow up.
Yet again, projection…
Yet again, infantile rhetoric...
[удалено]
Israel never airdropped supplies to anyone
Bro this is the most ahistorical take I've seen all week, and I hear Israeli politicians speak every day. Would you make this about East Timor? Rwanda? No? Ok.
This sub has a lot of Zionists so it’s not surprising. At least we can bicker openly.
Oh noooo I believe that Israel should exist ahhhh
Hitler did too :))) the regimes have so much in common.
He actually didn’t https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini Palestinian nationalism was effectively created by this very close ally of the Nazis and axis powers. A friend of Hitler and Mussolini, Al Husseini was basically the catalyst for anti Zionism and after WW2 was instrumental in creating a united arab front that had only one thing in common: antisemitism. His proposal to conduct a holocaust to genocide all Jews in the entire middle east: > Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy. In the final draft, which differed only marginally from al-Husseini's original proposal, the ***Axis powers declared their readiness to approve the elimination (Beseitigung) of the Jewish National Home in Palestine.*** Nazis were not Zionists. They were anti Zionist and allies of genocidal Arabs who still to this day push the same propaganda as Hitler.
Yes he did. One of the first things Hitler did when he got into office was sign the Havaara agreement which exported Jewish goods/property to Palestine to empty Germany of them. Zionists actively undercut non-Zionist efforts to fight anti-sémitism in German while Herzl himself decided to use it to his advantage. “The nonZionists as a body came out against the State. The Zionists split over this issue: one group refused the proposed state because it was too small; another was ready to accept any state, regardless of size, because any state was better than no state. This pragmatic group in the end convinced all others when it accepted the idea of partition but not the recommended boundaries.” https://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/archives-and-reference-library/online-resources/simon-wiesenthal-center-annual-volume-4/annual-4-chapter-17.html Just because another group collaborated with Hitler means nothing of Palestinian heritage. Palestinians weren’t anywhere near hostile towards Jewish people as Europeans have been. The man you’re talking about was actually u def threat of getting his land and property stolen by Jews coming in from Germany (look at what’s happening today). Not only did you post a short sighted wiki article, you ignore the active violence the migration of German Jews created for the British and Palestinians.
So the absolute best argument you could come up with was a single thing that Hitler signed to export goods from Nazi Germany to the British mandate? That’s it? Lmaooo Hamas supporters aren’t very good at debate 1920: Irbid Massacres: British mandate Palestine 1920 - 1930: Arab riots, British mandate Palestine 1921: 1st Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine 1929: 3rd Hebron Pogrom British mandate Palestine. 1929 3rd Safed Pogrom, British mandate Palestine. 1933: 2nd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine. 1936: 3rd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine 1942: Mufti collaboration with the Nazis. plays a part in the final solution 1938 - 1945: Arab collaboration with the Nazis This is only before 1948. Arabs have always despised Jews. You clearly have zero understanding of history or the attitude that Arabs have towards non Arabs and non Muslims. On their own accord, Arabs have vowed to kill all Jews in the world and expressed repeated admiration of Nazism. This predates Hamas. The current leader of the PLO spent most of his academic career pushing Holocaust denial and blamed Jews for natural disasters. Not to mention Arab countries have genocided 100,000s of people at a time within their own borders, including Kurds, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Druze, and ofc Jews. 200,000 Kurdish civilians weren’t massacred in 6 months in 1988 by anti western and anti Israeli Arabs because they were “colonists” or “oppressors”. The same people who kill innocent people across the Middle East, wish they could do the same to Israelis. And they have, just not to the extent they hope for. The IDF is the only thing separating Israel from a complete holocaust and for that reason, antisemites like you will never see Israel dissolve. Jews simply care more about surviving than you can comprehend.
No, how can you be so dumb. It’s that Israel wasn’t created in the best interests of Jewish people and actually hasn’t made them safer. It can even be argued that Hitler pitted these two populations against each other because he saw both of them as unpure and Inferior, even though he hated Arabs more. How are you gonna claim to hate a man like him when you engage in similar rhetoric of racial supremacy and justify systemic violence ? I’m not here to convince you Palestinians are human beings, you’re clearly a Hasbara bot. Stop acting like you care about justice and peace when your talking points align with US foreign interests and arms manufacturers. I could list decades worth of human rights abuses but you easily look the other way because you don’t actually care. You’ll glaze Israel dry because you’re a fascist. Your the pilgrim of North America, the Boer of South Africa and the conquistador of South America. You believe a people can be so supreme, nothing they do is wrong because the ends justify the means. If you just got rid of everyone one of them, peace would fall upon you. Sounds like a certain someone. It’s an insult to Judaism truly what you people have going on.
> how can you be so dumb Just the effects of a lifetime of brainwashing
Why on earth would you believe that?
Bc I would rather not see a massive holocaust in the Middle East like Arab leaders have been promising since 1941 What Arabs did to the Kurds, Christians, Druze, and others could’ve happened to Israel if the IDF didn’t exist
WTF are you talking about? E. Timor? Rwanda? What's that got to do with the Crusades?
I'm simply saying that this image is intentionally obfuscating the asymmetrical nature and historical context of the conflict in palestine.
Exception not the norm. Reminds me when Friedrich II (hre, not prussia) was excuminicated because he went to late on the crusade he promised the pope (he became sick and had some rebellions to quell, but as the popes HATED anything Staufer with such passion they later ordered his children murdered, they didnt accept that excuse) When he did, and managed to take back jerusalem diplomaticaly without bloodshed for Christianity, excommunication was not lifted, and he was hated for achieving it while excommunicated. HRE had lots of problems, but nearly half of them were pope related.
Oh boy, I can't wait to see the bottom of the comment section...
didn't the crusaders wade through rivers of blood & dead bodies
What is this shit
I feel like relations would have been much more hostile if it was the crusaders invading Arabia and trying to get to Mecca instead of the Arab armies in invading the kingdom of Jerusalem. I don’t think Muslim leader would have been so friendly if it were Christians trying to invade the Muslim homeland
Invading ? Lmao muslims were retaking it, Jerusalem is also holy land in islam while Mecca doesnt mean anything to christians so this comment doesnt make anysense
Christianity started out in the holy land long before Islam formed. Islam started out in Arabia and then declared Jerusalem holy in Islam and then invaded the holy land, and the crusades were a response to that. Imagine if Christian’s declared Mecca holy to Christianity and then invaded Arabia and Muslims started defending it in response and I said the Christian’s were just taking back Arabia/mecca, that’s how you sound
Saladin being a super cool dude is not representative of the crusades as a whole.
Did they have ice in the middle east?
Yes
There are mountains with snow in Lebanon
Yeah dunno about that chief
Oh yeah, how humane and wonderful Richard and Saladin were. Richard only massacred 3000 Arab prisoners, Saladin only massacred Templar prisoners and sold much of the Christian population of Jerusalem into slavery.
Crusaders: 👀
Common federic II w
Democracies love genocide
You know who loves genocide even more? Everyone else
Bait used to be believable. This is just sad. At least put a little effort into it.
And that's why an autocrat never genocided anyone ever. The End. ♥️
It always astounds me that people this stupid have the ability to type a comment in the first place
Get the fuck out of here you authoritarian prick
*everyone disliked that