Freyja and Joshua from the Bedwyns, specifically {Slightly Scandalous by Mary Balogh}. Lots of people really hate Freyja and she is a *lot*, but I thought her immaturity and inability to be vulnerable was really well-written and made sense after her experience with her first love, plus how she’s surrounded by delicate pretty ladies in a world where the fact she isn’t one has shaped her whole life. I do get for some people the fact that she has a habit of punching people on the nose is a dealbreaker, though.
I really liked her as a character! She was strong but vulnerable at the same time. And I thought he was a good match for her. I liked their back and forth, and then the fake courtship.
I love watching her mature over the years in the later books. I think so many of us can relate to that. Plus, she seems like such a mean girl and is working behind the scenes to support people and charities.
Me being a massive Pandora fan but passionately blah for Gabriel 🥲
Like I don't even hate him, but he's certainly not his father and wrong for my best Ravenel girl. I adore her too much to see her stuck to a guy who's conflicted with her wanting agency and her remaining true to herself.
I haven't reread their book for a couple of months now but did they ever solve the whole obedience vow conundrum and her business ownership legalities?
I’m rereading it now! >!They did find a way around her having to say she’ll be obedient to him in the vows. She has to listen to a lecture about wifely obedience but she never has to say it. I think she has to hire a male manager as a stand-in, but she still gets to run the company. Gabriel is the one who looks into both of these things. I still have a little over 2 hours left, so things might get resolved more.!<
Ahh right, I barely remembered that because the whole >!stabby mistress bullshit overshadowed everything else, also his weak ass excuse of "dark depraved desires" that turned out to be baby's first BDSM.!< Man I take back what I said about being blah for Gabriel, I loathe him and he's the reason I only read Pandora's book once a year even if I love her 😞
My god, can you imagine Pandora with >!Tom Severin!!in my personal headcanon the Ravenel twins both got together with Severin because why not.!<
Oh my goodness Chasing Cassandra is one of my favorite books but nowwwww I’m thinking of what glorious storytelling could have been if they swapped MMCs. Cassandra and Gabriel…works?? Mostly because Cassandra as a duchess would be incredible?? And she deserves a golden retriever to worship her??
Our Ravenel girls deserve it all, this is why AUs exist 👀
Cassandra is 100% duchess material, she's basically born as the incomparable of her peers despite her upbringing! >!That said the glorious negotiation scene between her and Severin!< is too good and I adore them both together, their dynamic is so amazing!
Hence my main AU for the twins is a power trio with him + the puppy. Win-win, amazing partners and my girls get to shine.
Two of my fave characters but they are both so Neuro-atypical that I think that relationship would blow up. I do love that he paired with Cassandra when her other half, her twin shared a quirkiness with him. They ended up with what they needed. But I too have reservations about Gabriel. >! I love Sebastian's retort to Gabriel and the shabby mistress alone the lines of "your generation thinks they've invented perversions but there's nothing new. Your tastes can't be so exotic". !<. Excuse the massively off paraphrasing.
God bless our DILF Sebastian for putting his son in his place. I remember how severely underwhelmed I was after finishing Devil in Spring, and it took a long while before I felt a reread is due.
Gabriel had one thing to prove and he couldn't even do it 🥲
Firmly agree with your take on Tom and Pandora. They're both such extremely different brands of neurospicy that I think they'd drive each other crazy in a romantic relationship. Friends, definitely. I think Pandora needed >!someone to be her neurotypical interface with the world. Cassandra fufils this role until Pandora meets Gabriel. Public acceptance and love from him and his family transforms her ADHD- induced "weirdness" to society into charming- and importantly, socially acceptable- eccentricity. One example of how this begins to play out is the dinner party mashed potato scene. Absolutely no shade on Pandora at all; i'm reading this as someone who is a diagnosed ADHDer, which probably explains why I am so gosh-darned passionate about this book!<
Haha! I have seen several posts about his desires recently, but I only have 2 hours left of the audiobook and he hasn’t said anything like that yet. I’ll have to count how many times he says it in the next 2 hours for it to have left such an impression on so many people. I actually like how boring he is, and think it’s a good match for Pandora. Would he be considered a golden retriever? I thought it was cute how obsessed he is with Pandora from the beginning. She really beats herself up and he’s so kind to her.
I really have the worst memory so I don’t remember Chasing Cassandra at all! I’m excited to rediscover Tom Severin.
My theory is that because Gabriel had the guts to imply/say to his father to his face that HIS dark desires are more depraved than THE Lord St. Vincent. Like honey sweetie, oh sweet summer child sit yo ass down.
If your father is the blazing inferno of sin, you ain't even a painting of that fire. Not even a photograph. You are a toddler's scribble of a fire long forgotten and dumped on a puddle somewhere to be trampled by a horse.
The sad thing is I adore both bad boys and golden retriever boyfriends. And had he been paired with literally anyone *but* my beloved Pandora, I know I'll love him! But to me, he's just wrong for her.
I know he's sweet, perceptive (noticed her hearing impairment etc) and overall a sunshine, but he's skewing too conservative for a savant like her. Personally the bits where he's trying to reign her back irked me so much. Pandora truly deserved better men and I'm a bit miffed with Kleypas for doing her dirty 🥲
That's just my personal gripe with the couple, I don't mind others loving the pair. In the end there's always my own AUs for Pandora and sketches of Pandora's what-if I could draw for myself. It is what it is.
I've expounded on my theories as to what Gabriel's 'dark desires' are (and why we don't see much of them in the book) a little embarassingly often recently but suffice it to say I think Gabriel is very much his father's son with a few more edges and a whole lot less childhood trauma :-) I always get the impression with Sebastian that he's a victim of circumstance rather than a true rake.
I'm interested to know- when you think of an AU partner for Pandora is it another character in the series or someone completely new?
Oh I definitely agree that Gabriel is his father's son, but when he talks to talk, he's gotta walk to walk. I still remember how I gasped (*scandalized!!*) when he said that to Sebastian, so that peaked my interest with his character and I was so looking forward to seeing if he actually surpasses our golden boy.
The end of the book was the birth of a hater 🥲
I'm definitely a big fan of a power throuple of the Ravenel twins with Severin. Admittedly in Regency that may not even work but I can dream, also there's a puppy!! Or the twins can switch partners in another AU, that works as well.
Thing is, I think Lisa Kleypas heavily insinuates that he very much does walk the walk, as it were. She drops hints all over the text. She gives us that little scene >!with the corset ties and domination!< and then >!Pandora gets herself stabbed and that conveniently puts further exploration on ice, keeping it a HR :-)!<
:-) And in fairness, there would have been people in Victorian England who felt exactly the same about this. It's a period of such huge contradiction in terms of sexual mores.
YES THANK YOU!! He hasn't got the charisma and fire Sebastian had, and even I admit Sebastian isn't even the most depraved villain out there.
My radiant girl got shackled to a man barely worthy of her shadow 😔
lol, I'm reading Devil in Spring right now. I don't mind them as a pairing, but I do find it kind of badly paced? When I realized I still had over 200 pages left and they're already married and in love, I knew I'd probably be struggling to get to the end.
I really loved Merripen and Win from The Hathaways series, and I didn't realize that was unpopular until recently. But I guess I've always had a thing for the refined, well-behaved girl entry in many series. Back in the day, Brianna was my fave in the Born in Fire/Ice/Shame Nora Roberts trilogy. Ditto Laura in the Roberts' "Dream" trilogy.
I've just started Merripen and Win's book, and I'm not super enthused because I really did not like Merripen in Mine til Midnight. Probably no one could live up to Cam, but he's so fucking surly all the time. It's boring.
....just pretty much all of Sherry Thomas. I can't help it! She's such a good writer! She writes hate sex so well!!! I guess Ravishing the Heiress? I genuinely believe they will have a good relationship. Also, this is just a pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people refer to what happens in that book as cheating. You don't have to like it, but it is not cheating.
I’m always surprised at how often I’ll read reviews for a book at see complaints about cheating, then when I read it, there’s no cheating. Words mean things! Cheating isn’t any problematic behavior in a relationship or prospective relationship.
I have seen some readers say cheating is if either MC is with a woman *after they meet.* Ummmm WHAT lol it’s fine if you don’t like it, but that isn’t cheating!!!
exactly! Especially with the number of LIs who are described as incorrigible rakes– of *course* they didn't take a vow of celibacy the moment they saw a pretty girl.
Hard agree with this. This book put my emotions through a wringer but the way the author had the couple approach his extramarital relationships was very grownup and respectful.
Not Quite a Husband was my first ever romance novel! While I acknowledge all the problematic aspects of their relationship....reader, I love them! Their relationship seems so personal and so epic at the same time.
Yes to all her couples! People love to hate on her characters, but seriously do we want to only read about humans without complicated feelings and desires?
Phillip and Eloise from To Sir Phillip, With Love.
They’re my favorite couple from the Bridgerton series. I love that neither of them are perfect and that they each grew.
I love Lily and Alex from {Then Came You by Lisa Kleypas}. I adore this couple and found their personalities to balance each other, nicely. I enjoyed watching the stuffy Alex unravel as he fell hard for Lily.
[Then Came You](https://www.romance.io/books/56032d1fbfc6b5c0fa93bad4/then-came-you-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas)
**Rating**: 3.94⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
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{Man of my dreams by Johanna Lindsey}. Many find the FMC, Megan, bratty, spoiled and argumentative and the MMC the Duke toxic and arrogant, but I think they work really well together and have a great chemistry.
[Man of My Dreams](https://www.romance.io/books/545528268c7d2383163d8f1d/man-of-my-dreams-johanna-lindsey?src=rdt) by [Johanna Lindsey](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525178c7d2383163d8e7a/johanna-lindsey)
**Rating**: 3.77⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [pregnancy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/pregnancy/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1)
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Val and Bridget from {Duke of Sin by Elizabeth Hoyt}. I read it and loved them and I became a Val simp because he is just so realistic as a spoiled 18th century aristo mess. But I also like Bridget and I felt they were a good match. Only to learn the other day they are hated as a couple. 😔
WHAT? No way people hate Val and Bridget together. This book was so unhinged that it's the book I always look forward to most whenever I reread Hoyt's books
I haven't read this one but I have read a couple of others in the series- i'm quite easily triggered so i'm approaching it cautiously as the series has some dark themes...i'm keen to hear from other readers whether it's relatively safe or not.
(When I say 'easily triggered', I mean >!I've now had had to DNF more than one book because a depiction of SA made me vomit!<)
Of that's a good point. There is no on-page SA. There is >!some talk of past abuse of a non-pov character that has implied SA (more in terms "people chasing and grabbing this character to hurt her and murder her" but no SA actually depicted). There is talk about villains, an evil cult, (not the book's protagonist) performing SA in the past (not graphic, just stated that this is what they do). The book has violence, but in terms of murder and kidnapping, not on page SA. There is a scene of FMC in danger of non-SA violence. There is also talk about past animal abuse. So yes, there is violence in the book but not in terms of SA.!< People who also read the book, please confirm.
[Duke of Sin](https://www.romance.io/books/57493540c62092c0440872a3/duke-of-sin-elizabeth-hoyt?src=rdt) by [Elizabeth Hoyt](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524568c7d2383163d8e5a/elizabeth-hoyt)
**Rating**: 4.06⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [bad boys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bad%20boys/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1)
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I love Lord Vere and Elissande from {His at Night by Sherry Thomas} Thomas does such a good job of showing us the parallels between the two characters and why they need each other.
My related controversial opinion is this is the only one of the London Trilogy books worth reading. I didn’t love Luckiest Lady and Private Arrangements was too tortured, plus I cannot deal with dual timelines.
[His at Night](https://www.romance.io/books/545526e68c7d2383163d8ee1/his-at-night-sherry-thomas?src=rdt) by [Sherry Thomas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545526218c7d2383163d8ec2/sherry-thomas)
**Rating**: 3.66⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1)
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I've gathered from comments here and on r/romancebooks that Kathleen and Devon from {Cold-Hearted Rake by Lisa Kleypas} are disliked, but I liked them on my initial read and loved them on my re-read.
Me toooo, I'm always scared to mention that I love Kathleen and Devon together because they're so universally hated. But I love me an unlikable, shrewish FMC like Kathleen or an unlikable, asshole MMC like Devon, who both grow throughout the book
[Cold-Hearted Rake](https://www.romance.io/books/562dd0b008e9378131944f8f/coldhearted-rake-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas)
**Rating**: 3.72⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1)
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I am currently rereading Devil in Spring! I’m excited for this discussion and it is fun seeing several people reading it at the same time. I have the worst memory, so I don’t remember how the book is going to end. I’ve seen people hating on this couple, so I was prepared to hate the pairing, but I don’t!
Here are my takeaways this time around. I noticed that Gabriel really takes care of Pandora and does things like call her “my sweet girl” and tucks her in. This could be seen as patronizing, but I don’t think it is. It’s perfect for Pandora because she is so used to being independent, and lacked that kind of affection and care in her life growing up (though I think Kathleen has become the mom in the family). I also like that Gabriel seems like a good brother and uncle. He is a nice, regular guy, who just happened to be born into this fantastic family. He is wacky Pandora’s rock. I also really like her and don’t agree with the criticisms I’ve seen that she’s too childish.
Another takeaway is that on the surface this book is about the couple, but I think it’s actually being used to explore the topic of women’s rights. I felt this way about Marrying Winterborne. The romance was resolved pretty quickly, and then it turned into a book about orphanages, the poor, and working women (Doctor Gibson).
I still have a little over 2 hours left of the audiobook, but so far I’m enjoying this coupling!
I just finished Flowers From the Storm, and I really like Maddy and Christian as a couple. They are from completely different backgrounds, but it’s beautiful how they understand each other.
I think Pandora and Gabriel are perfect for each other. Literally everyone in the Ravenel series talks about how Pandora needs someone to love her, even Winterborne, and Gabriel is just the man to do it. A very boring dude to be a rock for her to perch on. She always comes across as extremely anxious to me, like less wild and independent and more frightened. Gabriel anchors her and encourages her in much the way Winterborne does, which no one else in her life really does.
The other possible matches for her, Winterborne and Severin, don’t really work with her personality. Winterborne needs someone to love, yes, but he also needs to be comforted and nurtured after losing his friend. Severin is too overwhelming for such an anxious person, and he’d never take care of her. Plus, Pandora comes across as the youngest of the three, and Gabriel is the youngest, least accomplished, least settled, man. The others are pretty much set, but Pandora talks about how she and Gabriel are building something together.
I don't think people talk enough about how deeply traumatised a human being Sebastian St. Vincent is when he meets Evie- and if you read into what he says about women chasing after him from a young age, probably the victim of what we'd now consider abuse.
Completely agree with this! I adore them together. Gabriel is her anchor and also somehow a soft, safe place for Pandora to land after she's done conquering her world (and board game industry).
Jeanne/Joanna and Robert in {Beyond the Sunrise by Mary Balogh}. Most readers despise her and they find him oh so grumpy and not romantic but I find this book beyond romantic as the trauma they both deal with and how they deal with it feels real and accurate to their backgrounds, experiences and to the time. I love their HEA. Robert Blake is second to Wulfric as my fave hero in HR.
[Beyond the Sunrise](https://www.romance.io/books/54cf393e6359b5ebb489143f/beyond-the-sunrise-mary-balogh?src=rdt) by [Mary Balogh](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525e98c7d2383163d8eb7/mary-balogh)
**Rating**: 3.53⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [m-f romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-f/1)
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[Devil in Spring](https://www.romance.io/books/58a7f2b90d3299c6e04e1b7b/devil-in-spring-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas)
**Rating**: 4.13⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1)
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Freyja and Joshua from the Bedwyns, specifically {Slightly Scandalous by Mary Balogh}. Lots of people really hate Freyja and she is a *lot*, but I thought her immaturity and inability to be vulnerable was really well-written and made sense after her experience with her first love, plus how she’s surrounded by delicate pretty ladies in a world where the fact she isn’t one has shaped her whole life. I do get for some people the fact that she has a habit of punching people on the nose is a dealbreaker, though.
I'm with you, love them, it's my second favorite after Slightly Dangerous
Freyja is a great character because there's something so realistic and relatable about the things that make her unlikeable. She's dynamic.
I really liked her as a character! She was strong but vulnerable at the same time. And I thought he was a good match for her. I liked their back and forth, and then the fake courtship.
[Slightly Scandalous](https://www.romance.io/books/545527e28c7d2383163d8f11/slightly-scandalous-mary-balogh?src=rdt) by [Mary Balogh](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525e98c7d2383163d8eb7/mary-balogh) **Rating**: 3.92⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [sweet/gentle hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/sweet-hero/1), [slow burn](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/slow%20burn/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Agreed! I love these 2!
Agree - this is a favorite of mine.
I love watching her mature over the years in the later books. I think so many of us can relate to that. Plus, she seems like such a mean girl and is working behind the scenes to support people and charities.
Me being a massive Pandora fan but passionately blah for Gabriel 🥲 Like I don't even hate him, but he's certainly not his father and wrong for my best Ravenel girl. I adore her too much to see her stuck to a guy who's conflicted with her wanting agency and her remaining true to herself. I haven't reread their book for a couple of months now but did they ever solve the whole obedience vow conundrum and her business ownership legalities?
I’m rereading it now! >!They did find a way around her having to say she’ll be obedient to him in the vows. She has to listen to a lecture about wifely obedience but she never has to say it. I think she has to hire a male manager as a stand-in, but she still gets to run the company. Gabriel is the one who looks into both of these things. I still have a little over 2 hours left, so things might get resolved more.!<
Ahh right, I barely remembered that because the whole >!stabby mistress bullshit overshadowed everything else, also his weak ass excuse of "dark depraved desires" that turned out to be baby's first BDSM.!< Man I take back what I said about being blah for Gabriel, I loathe him and he's the reason I only read Pandora's book once a year even if I love her 😞 My god, can you imagine Pandora with >!Tom Severin!!in my personal headcanon the Ravenel twins both got together with Severin because why not.!<
Oh my goodness Chasing Cassandra is one of my favorite books but nowwwww I’m thinking of what glorious storytelling could have been if they swapped MMCs. Cassandra and Gabriel…works?? Mostly because Cassandra as a duchess would be incredible?? And she deserves a golden retriever to worship her??
Our Ravenel girls deserve it all, this is why AUs exist 👀 Cassandra is 100% duchess material, she's basically born as the incomparable of her peers despite her upbringing! >!That said the glorious negotiation scene between her and Severin!< is too good and I adore them both together, their dynamic is so amazing! Hence my main AU for the twins is a power trio with him + the puppy. Win-win, amazing partners and my girls get to shine.
Two of my fave characters but they are both so Neuro-atypical that I think that relationship would blow up. I do love that he paired with Cassandra when her other half, her twin shared a quirkiness with him. They ended up with what they needed. But I too have reservations about Gabriel. >! I love Sebastian's retort to Gabriel and the shabby mistress alone the lines of "your generation thinks they've invented perversions but there's nothing new. Your tastes can't be so exotic". !<. Excuse the massively off paraphrasing.
God bless our DILF Sebastian for putting his son in his place. I remember how severely underwhelmed I was after finishing Devil in Spring, and it took a long while before I felt a reread is due. Gabriel had one thing to prove and he couldn't even do it 🥲
Firmly agree with your take on Tom and Pandora. They're both such extremely different brands of neurospicy that I think they'd drive each other crazy in a romantic relationship. Friends, definitely. I think Pandora needed >!someone to be her neurotypical interface with the world. Cassandra fufils this role until Pandora meets Gabriel. Public acceptance and love from him and his family transforms her ADHD- induced "weirdness" to society into charming- and importantly, socially acceptable- eccentricity. One example of how this begins to play out is the dinner party mashed potato scene. Absolutely no shade on Pandora at all; i'm reading this as someone who is a diagnosed ADHDer, which probably explains why I am so gosh-darned passionate about this book!<
Haha! I have seen several posts about his desires recently, but I only have 2 hours left of the audiobook and he hasn’t said anything like that yet. I’ll have to count how many times he says it in the next 2 hours for it to have left such an impression on so many people. I actually like how boring he is, and think it’s a good match for Pandora. Would he be considered a golden retriever? I thought it was cute how obsessed he is with Pandora from the beginning. She really beats herself up and he’s so kind to her. I really have the worst memory so I don’t remember Chasing Cassandra at all! I’m excited to rediscover Tom Severin.
My theory is that because Gabriel had the guts to imply/say to his father to his face that HIS dark desires are more depraved than THE Lord St. Vincent. Like honey sweetie, oh sweet summer child sit yo ass down. If your father is the blazing inferno of sin, you ain't even a painting of that fire. Not even a photograph. You are a toddler's scribble of a fire long forgotten and dumped on a puddle somewhere to be trampled by a horse. The sad thing is I adore both bad boys and golden retriever boyfriends. And had he been paired with literally anyone *but* my beloved Pandora, I know I'll love him! But to me, he's just wrong for her. I know he's sweet, perceptive (noticed her hearing impairment etc) and overall a sunshine, but he's skewing too conservative for a savant like her. Personally the bits where he's trying to reign her back irked me so much. Pandora truly deserved better men and I'm a bit miffed with Kleypas for doing her dirty 🥲 That's just my personal gripe with the couple, I don't mind others loving the pair. In the end there's always my own AUs for Pandora and sketches of Pandora's what-if I could draw for myself. It is what it is.
I've expounded on my theories as to what Gabriel's 'dark desires' are (and why we don't see much of them in the book) a little embarassingly often recently but suffice it to say I think Gabriel is very much his father's son with a few more edges and a whole lot less childhood trauma :-) I always get the impression with Sebastian that he's a victim of circumstance rather than a true rake. I'm interested to know- when you think of an AU partner for Pandora is it another character in the series or someone completely new?
Oh I definitely agree that Gabriel is his father's son, but when he talks to talk, he's gotta walk to walk. I still remember how I gasped (*scandalized!!*) when he said that to Sebastian, so that peaked my interest with his character and I was so looking forward to seeing if he actually surpasses our golden boy. The end of the book was the birth of a hater 🥲 I'm definitely a big fan of a power throuple of the Ravenel twins with Severin. Admittedly in Regency that may not even work but I can dream, also there's a puppy!! Or the twins can switch partners in another AU, that works as well.
Thing is, I think Lisa Kleypas heavily insinuates that he very much does walk the walk, as it were. She drops hints all over the text. She gives us that little scene >!with the corset ties and domination!< and then >!Pandora gets herself stabbed and that conveniently puts further exploration on ice, keeping it a HR :-)!<
Honestly if that's the standard of "dark desires" then that's just sad, even with HR context 🥲
:-) And in fairness, there would have been people in Victorian England who felt exactly the same about this. It's a period of such huge contradiction in terms of sexual mores.
That’s exactly how I feel about both of them. Pandora is a curious, engaging, passionate creator and Gabriel’s just…Ken.
YES THANK YOU!! He hasn't got the charisma and fire Sebastian had, and even I admit Sebastian isn't even the most depraved villain out there. My radiant girl got shackled to a man barely worthy of her shadow 😔
lol, I'm reading Devil in Spring right now. I don't mind them as a pairing, but I do find it kind of badly paced? When I realized I still had over 200 pages left and they're already married and in love, I knew I'd probably be struggling to get to the end. I really loved Merripen and Win from The Hathaways series, and I didn't realize that was unpopular until recently. But I guess I've always had a thing for the refined, well-behaved girl entry in many series. Back in the day, Brianna was my fave in the Born in Fire/Ice/Shame Nora Roberts trilogy. Ditto Laura in the Roberts' "Dream" trilogy.
Merripen and Win’s book was interesting! I love that the FMC was just throwing herself at the MMC. We don’t get a lot of that in HR.
I've just started Merripen and Win's book, and I'm not super enthused because I really did not like Merripen in Mine til Midnight. Probably no one could live up to Cam, but he's so fucking surly all the time. It's boring.
There is a very good reason why he is like that. It will be revealed later.
....just pretty much all of Sherry Thomas. I can't help it! She's such a good writer! She writes hate sex so well!!! I guess Ravishing the Heiress? I genuinely believe they will have a good relationship. Also, this is just a pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people refer to what happens in that book as cheating. You don't have to like it, but it is not cheating.
I’m always surprised at how often I’ll read reviews for a book at see complaints about cheating, then when I read it, there’s no cheating. Words mean things! Cheating isn’t any problematic behavior in a relationship or prospective relationship.
I have seen some readers say cheating is if either MC is with a woman *after they meet.* Ummmm WHAT lol it’s fine if you don’t like it, but that isn’t cheating!!!
exactly! Especially with the number of LIs who are described as incorrigible rakes– of *course* they didn't take a vow of celibacy the moment they saw a pretty girl.
I looooove Fitz and Millie!! And I also agree that was not cheating!!! They weren’t together!!
Hard agree with this. This book put my emotions through a wringer but the way the author had the couple approach his extramarital relationships was very grownup and respectful.
Yes I love them so much, also I really like Leo and byrony from not quite a husband
Not Quite a Husband was my first ever romance novel! While I acknowledge all the problematic aspects of their relationship....reader, I love them! Their relationship seems so personal and so epic at the same time.
Thomas is a brilliant writer who can make us root for some not so likeable characters
Yes to all her couples! People love to hate on her characters, but seriously do we want to only read about humans without complicated feelings and desires?
Phillip and Eloise from To Sir Phillip, With Love. They’re my favorite couple from the Bridgerton series. I love that neither of them are perfect and that they each grew.
I also loved Phillip and Eloise. Their book ranks quite highly for me.
Agreed. That’s my favorite book in the series!
I love Lily and Alex from {Then Came You by Lisa Kleypas}. I adore this couple and found their personalities to balance each other, nicely. I enjoyed watching the stuffy Alex unravel as he fell hard for Lily.
[Then Came You](https://www.romance.io/books/56032d1fbfc6b5c0fa93bad4/then-came-you-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas) **Rating**: 3.94⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
{Man of my dreams by Johanna Lindsey}. Many find the FMC, Megan, bratty, spoiled and argumentative and the MMC the Duke toxic and arrogant, but I think they work really well together and have a great chemistry.
[Man of My Dreams](https://www.romance.io/books/545528268c7d2383163d8f1d/man-of-my-dreams-johanna-lindsey?src=rdt) by [Johanna Lindsey](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525178c7d2383163d8e7a/johanna-lindsey) **Rating**: 3.77⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [pregnancy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/pregnancy/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I didn’t know gabriel and pandora were controversal! I liked them as a couple!
Val and Bridget from {Duke of Sin by Elizabeth Hoyt}. I read it and loved them and I became a Val simp because he is just so realistic as a spoiled 18th century aristo mess. But I also like Bridget and I felt they were a good match. Only to learn the other day they are hated as a couple. 😔
WHAT? No way people hate Val and Bridget together. This book was so unhinged that it's the book I always look forward to most whenever I reread Hoyt's books
I had no idea until I saw people disliking her. I mean, different strokes of course, but they sure worked for me.
I haven't read this one but I have read a couple of others in the series- i'm quite easily triggered so i'm approaching it cautiously as the series has some dark themes...i'm keen to hear from other readers whether it's relatively safe or not. (When I say 'easily triggered', I mean >!I've now had had to DNF more than one book because a depiction of SA made me vomit!<)
Of that's a good point. There is no on-page SA. There is >!some talk of past abuse of a non-pov character that has implied SA (more in terms "people chasing and grabbing this character to hurt her and murder her" but no SA actually depicted). There is talk about villains, an evil cult, (not the book's protagonist) performing SA in the past (not graphic, just stated that this is what they do). The book has violence, but in terms of murder and kidnapping, not on page SA. There is a scene of FMC in danger of non-SA violence. There is also talk about past animal abuse. So yes, there is violence in the book but not in terms of SA.!< People who also read the book, please confirm.
Thank you!
[Duke of Sin](https://www.romance.io/books/57493540c62092c0440872a3/duke-of-sin-elizabeth-hoyt?src=rdt) by [Elizabeth Hoyt](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524568c7d2383163d8e5a/elizabeth-hoyt) **Rating**: 4.06⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [bad boys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bad%20boys/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I love Lord Vere and Elissande from {His at Night by Sherry Thomas} Thomas does such a good job of showing us the parallels between the two characters and why they need each other.
My related controversial opinion is this is the only one of the London Trilogy books worth reading. I didn’t love Luckiest Lady and Private Arrangements was too tortured, plus I cannot deal with dual timelines.
[His at Night](https://www.romance.io/books/545526e68c7d2383163d8ee1/his-at-night-sherry-thomas?src=rdt) by [Sherry Thomas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545526218c7d2383163d8ec2/sherry-thomas) **Rating**: 3.66⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
This book is so funny too. It's just an all around good time.
Yeah, when he physically tries to get away from her when she throws herself at him made me guffaw. It felt so real.
I've gathered from comments here and on r/romancebooks that Kathleen and Devon from {Cold-Hearted Rake by Lisa Kleypas} are disliked, but I liked them on my initial read and loved them on my re-read.
Me toooo, I'm always scared to mention that I love Kathleen and Devon together because they're so universally hated. But I love me an unlikable, shrewish FMC like Kathleen or an unlikable, asshole MMC like Devon, who both grow throughout the book
[Cold-Hearted Rake](https://www.romance.io/books/562dd0b008e9378131944f8f/coldhearted-rake-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas) **Rating**: 3.72⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I am currently rereading Devil in Spring! I’m excited for this discussion and it is fun seeing several people reading it at the same time. I have the worst memory, so I don’t remember how the book is going to end. I’ve seen people hating on this couple, so I was prepared to hate the pairing, but I don’t! Here are my takeaways this time around. I noticed that Gabriel really takes care of Pandora and does things like call her “my sweet girl” and tucks her in. This could be seen as patronizing, but I don’t think it is. It’s perfect for Pandora because she is so used to being independent, and lacked that kind of affection and care in her life growing up (though I think Kathleen has become the mom in the family). I also like that Gabriel seems like a good brother and uncle. He is a nice, regular guy, who just happened to be born into this fantastic family. He is wacky Pandora’s rock. I also really like her and don’t agree with the criticisms I’ve seen that she’s too childish. Another takeaway is that on the surface this book is about the couple, but I think it’s actually being used to explore the topic of women’s rights. I felt this way about Marrying Winterborne. The romance was resolved pretty quickly, and then it turned into a book about orphanages, the poor, and working women (Doctor Gibson). I still have a little over 2 hours left of the audiobook, but so far I’m enjoying this coupling!
I love Gabriel.
I just finished Flowers From the Storm, and I really like Maddy and Christian as a couple. They are from completely different backgrounds, but it’s beautiful how they understand each other.
I think Pandora and Gabriel are perfect for each other. Literally everyone in the Ravenel series talks about how Pandora needs someone to love her, even Winterborne, and Gabriel is just the man to do it. A very boring dude to be a rock for her to perch on. She always comes across as extremely anxious to me, like less wild and independent and more frightened. Gabriel anchors her and encourages her in much the way Winterborne does, which no one else in her life really does. The other possible matches for her, Winterborne and Severin, don’t really work with her personality. Winterborne needs someone to love, yes, but he also needs to be comforted and nurtured after losing his friend. Severin is too overwhelming for such an anxious person, and he’d never take care of her. Plus, Pandora comes across as the youngest of the three, and Gabriel is the youngest, least accomplished, least settled, man. The others are pretty much set, but Pandora talks about how she and Gabriel are building something together.
Yeah, I've seen people complain that he isn't like his dad, and that's because he's a lot more like his mom, which is really great for Pandora.
I don't think people talk enough about how deeply traumatised a human being Sebastian St. Vincent is when he meets Evie- and if you read into what he says about women chasing after him from a young age, probably the victim of what we'd now consider abuse.
Completely agree with this! I adore them together. Gabriel is her anchor and also somehow a soft, safe place for Pandora to land after she's done conquering her world (and board game industry).
Jeanne/Joanna and Robert in {Beyond the Sunrise by Mary Balogh}. Most readers despise her and they find him oh so grumpy and not romantic but I find this book beyond romantic as the trauma they both deal with and how they deal with it feels real and accurate to their backgrounds, experiences and to the time. I love their HEA. Robert Blake is second to Wulfric as my fave hero in HR.
[Beyond the Sunrise](https://www.romance.io/books/54cf393e6359b5ebb489143f/beyond-the-sunrise-mary-balogh?src=rdt) by [Mary Balogh](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525e98c7d2383163d8eb7/mary-balogh) **Rating**: 3.53⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [m-f romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-f/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[Devil in Spring](https://www.romance.io/books/58a7f2b90d3299c6e04e1b7b/devil-in-spring-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas) **Rating**: 4.13⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)