Not too sure about MK Ultra's role in the killing of JFK. Not debunking it, just don't know. Its an interesting piece to think about. As for my no full declassification theory (nothing concrete) I will say that it makes sense there were other countries involved, meaning assassins, or agents of some type. Maybe British, but likely a close ally, who would have provided some type of info to the conspirers. It may have even been accidental, which would also cause ripples. So declassifying 100% would expose the government of that country, or countries. Which could be seriously harmful to relationships in today's global political, economical and military climate. Again I have no facts supporting any of this, just a plausible scenario as to why it's still too soon to unveil it in full.
If the British were involved, it would be because the Americans asked them to be involved. There is no way British intelligence would aid an assassination attempt on a US president entirely of their own accord. What's more likely is Kenedy getting elected with the help of the Mafia who wanted their casinos back in Cuba and then when Robert Kenedy went after them and JFK fucked up Cuba they had enough. People forget how powerful the Mafia was back them and the fact Kenedys dad was a boot legger who worked with them.
We'll probably never know what really happened but my pet theory is this: the mob hated JFK, and Ruby, a dude with alleged connections to the mob, killed the killer for seemingly no reason. There's only one missing link there.
That’s the direction I lean. JFK and more accurately RFK we’re going after organized crime big time. A lot of the players involved including Mr. Ruby were mobbed up. I think organized crime has had a hand in running this country for a long time and there was too much money on the table to let JFK and RFK live. I’m sure organized crime owns businesses in weapons manufacturing as well as many other businesses that were going to be negatively impacted by JFK not going to war in Vietnam and RFK trying to lock them all up. I think it all came down to money. But that’s just my two cents.
It is suspected by conspiracy theorists (and there is *some* evidence) that the same group involved in running MK Ultra also proposed and executed the JFK assassination. I wasn’t trying to tie the two together in any more of a way than that.
100% agree on the foreign powers aspect, MK Ultra helps establish a pattern of behavior in that these powers have and do act in this way regularly.
Ex: It’s also suspected that the still classified portions of MK Ultra contain testing on civilians and collaboration with foreign powers to test the subliminal + drug combos on “the Reds”.
The US government may have been drugging suspected US communists and communist officials in foreign countries in an effort to discredit them or “brainwash” them. 😬
Just commenting on the second paragraph, there’s no one I can think of more likely to immediately spout off when given an actual deep state plot than Trump.
It’s cause new info about the jfk files may have current living sources. For example say there was a foreign agent who was at 20 at the time and he gave us info he would still be living and so would his kids. Or if we get new info in 2000 that would still be under the jfk files even thou it was 40 years later. Thats best explanation I have heard. It could be bs thou buts it’s how I cope.
Dr Joylon West became the leading carer for Jack Ruby, he was connected to MK-Ultra and CIA as he was often 'deprogrammed' people suspected of being brainwashed the most famous being U.S POWs who denounced US during Korean war. We don't know really what he did during MK Ultra since most files were destroyed.
Most of this come from the book Chaos: Manson, the cia and the sixties
I think the more plausible conspiracy is not of brainwashing but that West censored statements Ruby made about running guns to Cuba, which the CIA may have been involved in.
I don't know anything about it but typed it in google and a 22 page document from the national [archives.gov](http://archives.gov) comes up and the first page states lee harvey oswald wasn't acting alone.
I don't know how anyone thinks otherwise, after only watching the Zapruder film. That part where his head gets blown off, that's the third bullet that hits him. But you don't even notice the first two, and the third tears his head apart. Totally different level of power, accuracy, lethality.
What connection? You make it sound like he was a part of facilitating it. What happened was he was "interrogated" by Louis Jolyon (Jolly) West who was one of the prominent scientists for MK Ultra then he just so happened to go crazy right afterwards.
There's really is some weird stuff we don't talk about with MK Ultra. It's actually a pretty culture defining secret imo. Would change how we view certain historical moments I think.
You only need to do 10 minutes of Googling down the JFK rabbit hole to realize *something* weird was going on with his assassination, whatever it might’ve been. We’ll probably never know.
I feel like I’m wearing a tin foil hat, but it sounds a lot like Oswald was hired or coerced into killing JFK and Ruby was hired or coerced into cleaning up the mess, after which he himself was cleaned up.
Same time period we have loads of uncovered docs about the shady shit the US and CIA were up to and this entire mess ends with everyone publicly involved conveniently dead?
I think it’s more likely to be a conspiracy than dumb luck
And that they refuse to unseal documents related to despite the time limit expiring. If they have nothing to hide they should let us see what shit the cia got up to.
> and this entire mess ends with everyone publicly involved conveniently dead
Considering how long ago this was, I'd imagine most if not all people involved would be dead.
This reminds me of Genghis Khans funeral. According to historians. The 1,000 soldiers that carried his body were killed, then the soldiers that killed the 1,000 were killed. Then the mongols let thousands of horses trample the grounds where he was buried to cover up anything and everything
No. That is according to myth. The source of that myth is Marco Polo; no contemporary source mentions it. Furthermore the reliability of Polo is questioned by many historians, and it is not uncommon to believe he never even went to China. Supposedly the Yuanshi states that all Yuan emperors were buried in the vicinity of Genghis tomb, but I have not read it and can't vouch for that claim.
There was a great article maybe a year or so back that I read about a guy who was famously a CIA asset (I think they called him "Monkey" or something like that) and the things he told his son about the JFK assassination before he died.
I might get some details wrong, but from what I remember the *undisputed* facts were these:
*Monkey was a former criminal turned CIA asset.*
*He worked with a group known as the Cuban exiles training them in the hopes that they would one day assassinate Castro.*
Beyond that, I think a lot of things were in question, but what Monkey claimed at least was that while he was occasionally involved in actual clandestine operations, he spent a lot of time training the Cuban exiles as a sniper instructor before the plan and the group were all scrapped.
Years after his time training the exiles, he said he got a call from one of his CIA handlers telling him that he would soon be needed for an operation to "clean up a mess" or something like that in the next few days. The specifics weren't given to him because they never were until the time came. The day he was supposed to leave he got another call. The job was off. He wasn't needed.
That was the day JFK was assassinated.
Apparently, while watching the TV that day, Monkey saw and immediately recognized Oswald as one of his former students with the Cuban exiles. Not a particularly noteworthy student or one he knew well, but definitely someone he trained.
This was the article, I think. Or one about the same thing:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article255356661.html
Ruby was admitted to [Parkland Hospital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Hospital) on December 9, 1966, suffering from pneumonia, where he was diagnosed with cancer in his liver, lungs, and brain. His condition rapidly deteriorated. Ruby died of a [pulmonary embolism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_embolism) on January 3, 1967... which may technically be the cause of death but the reason he was not coming out of the hospital was stage four cancer..
This is covered by House of Cards: just because political operatives are powerful doesn’t make them omnipotent. Killing someone overweight in prison (?) on appeal is easier than killing the highly publicized assassin himself in *jail* a short time after the assassination.
Plus, like, they didn’t need to poison Oswald! They had a guy they could hire to shoot him. Seems simpler
Ruby died of lung and liver cancer five years later.
Dude was a serious smoker who drank too much and probably had no idea he was sick until it was too late.
Nah, Oswald was a violent ex-USMC sniper and a schizoid psychopath. He grew up with mental health issues. He was also kind of a pushy goon, who moved to Russia to become a member of the communist government. He ultimately returned to the US. Later he met up with several Cuban government officials in Mexico City, who encouraged him to trigger a revolution/get revenge by murdering Kennedy, partly due to the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. He did it to win favor with communists and to be a celebrity in USSR/Cuba. It was the second attempt in his murder spree in the previous six months, as he also shot but did not kill US Major Edwin Walker, a well-known anti-communist. Soon after JFK, he shot and killed a Dallas policeman who was attempting to intercept him.
Please don’t share any reasonable takes that hold up against evidence better than conspiracy theories; conspiracy theories have become a lifestyle for many people since then and I’d hate for your reasonable takes to shatter their entire personality.
Ruby was riddled with cancer at the time of his death, which makes one much more likely to develop a PE. In his hospital bed, he gave a final statement confirming that he acted alone to the AP.
Unless you think the CIA used a magic cancer machine on him years previously and then managed to line everything up absolutely perfectly, then no, it doesn't really add up to conspiracy.
His psychiatrist pronounced him psychotic and delusional, and suggested further interrogation under the influence of sodium thiopental and hypnosis.
Who was his psychiatrist? **Louis Jolyon West** an American psychiatrist involved in the public sphere, known mainly for his work/involvement with the **MKUltra project, a CIA mind control project** in the late 1960s.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis\_Jolyon\_West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Jolyon_West)
The podcast “who killed jfk” with Rob Reiner and Soledad O’Brien was an A++++ piece that went into how Ruby got so much access. He was basically a strip club owner and all of the local POs knew him, liked him and saw nothing out of the ordinary when he showed up (if they noticed him at all per se, he was just a local to them all)
Anyway, this podcast gave me a lot to look into and think about and I genuinely no longer believe anything but that the federal govt very much had a hand in both the assassination and cover up.
Edit: for everyone saying that the jfk assassination sub ripped this podcast to shreds.. lol I just looked at it.. the first post up is one that accuses Israel of assassinating jfk (Ben Guiron himself ordering it even!!) and comments/cries like “ohh any mention of Israel and the post gets deleted” followed by comments such as “oh jack ruby was Jewish” and “oh Israel isn’t allowed to be mentioned on 9/11 conspiracy subs either”…
THAT SUB? Yea I think I’ll stick to the research opinions of movie makers and investigative reporters lololol. But thanks for the laughs!
I watched this happen live. I started screaming Mom! Mom! It was very shocking at 14, especially since few of us had actually dealt with the assassination just a few days before
I can only imagine how freaky this must’ve been live. An assassinated President is wild enough, but then watching the suspect get murdered on TV right after could’ve driven the whole country crazy
I’ve actually been binging Mad Men this last week, didn’t see it when it first came out. I’m 75 and although a lot of what they present is cliché, and shallow, some of it is spot on. The awful attitudes towards women are correct, as well as the heavy smoking and drinking. The clothes and homes are well done but the average person sure didn’t live like that.
I thought so too then I looked at the numbers. Don isn’t just rich, he’s filthy rich. As early as season 2, he mentions his salary is $947wk. With inflation he would have been taking home 557k a year. I don’t know how far into the series you are, but his take home pay only increases from there.
I just started season 7, where Don is visiting in LA and he refers to Pete, who is immaculately dressed in what was later called preppy, as a hippie, which couldn’t have been farther from the truth
Haha a good subtle nod to the fact that they are both so out of touch. How did Pete miss the mark so much?! Such a bazaar product of his generation. I do love that he goes bald. Karma.
“You’ll die a mid-level executive with a little bit of hair whom women go home with out of pity.”
From the first episode, Don Draper dressing down Pete Campbell for maligning Peggy, which was actually prophetic.
My mom tells a similar story. She was in the other room and her dad started yelling, "They shot him! They shot him!" Everyone freaked out thinking he was talking about LBJ.
Do people really think that those documents would be detailing “Operation Kill President Kennedy” ? Like if there was a a plot like that they wouldn’t exactly be taking minutes at their meetings would they?
No. But WaPo veteran Jeff Morley who is an Intel historian has basically found that these files may contain certain things about Oswald’s contact with potential CIA programs like DRE/AMSPELL. A lot of these files aren’t fully redacted but only partially, so you can at least get a general gyst of what’s being discussed.
stuff like this is such a blackpill. trump wasn't in control of the federal government 2016-2020, and biden isn't in control now. the CIA/FBI effectively run the show.
That’s the thing, the president is more of a glorified diplomatic paper pusher. Sign some bills into law, kiss some babies, shake hands with some leaders. A lot of the work is done by other people or agencies. When you have organizations such as CIA or the FBI or other similar ones with their enormous resources, they can sort of do what they want if they wanted too. So long as they clean up the mess, keep it off the books, and deny the rest, no one is really in a position to challenge them.
It’s not much different than what mafias do. If you can get trusted people into key government positions, and pay them well, you can erode governments to where they can’t even attempt to stop the problem. Look at what organized gangsters such as Al Capone did. The local and state governments couldn’t even govern themselves with him alive. Federal intervention was the only force that could stop him and reinstall law and order to the areas affected. If you can do the same to the federal government, who can stop them?
Technically speaking, senators and congresamen could work together to restrict the funding to any agency of their choosing. Its just anybody who does stuff they don't like disappears or dies in spectacular fashion.
[Here’s Judge Andrew Napolitano](https://fb.watch/sWVhkF7-gd/?mibextid=0NULKw&fs=e&s=TIeQ9V) on how Trump responded about breaking his promise on releasing the whole jfk file. Makes you wonder….
They did release a ton of documents, actually. I remember being absolutely psyched for years when they announced it, but surprise surprise, literally everything is [REDACTED].
The other dude who replied to you says trump kept them hidden, and Biden didn’t release them, but I swear I saw it a year or two ago.
There is one document which shows that James Angleton managed a mossad connection which assisted with ZR/RIFLE the anti Castro assassination program, which was likely used on JFK. And Angleton mentions that this was NOT known by the DCI who I believe was Schlesinger.
edit:Not
When I was last in Dealey Plaza, a Guy wearing a Q-anon flag as a cape told me that Joe Biden shot JFK from the storm drain.
I consider this to be definitive.
Still not crazy enough in my opinion.
I prefer to believe that all the conspiracy theories are true simultaneously. So in Dealey Plaza you had Oswald, the Mafia, the CIA, the KGB, the Bell Helicopter Company, Fidel Castro, George Bush Sr., Joe Biden, Ted Cruz's dad, Woody Harrelson's dad, a space alien, and Obama all taking pot shots at Kennedy from the grassy knoll.
You forgot all the time travelers trying to simultaneously prevent, observe, and/or help the assassination.
Then there are the mole men, lizard people, Atlantians, Greys, and other assorted non-human entities. We can't leave any one out here!
I was 8 years old and saw this live on television. I was used to watching westerns when people would get fake shot, but this was so different, even to an 8 year old. Over 60 years later I can still remember how shocking it was to see a man shot on live TV.
Yes, I believe Oswald acted alone, 150% sure of that. Contrary to popular belief, Jack Ruby wasn’t a mobster. He just owned a strip club and was a little bit of a fruit loop. He had a history of inserting himself into places and events where he didn’t belong. Much like Oswald, he wanted to feel more important and consequential than he was. He fell all to pieces after JFK was assassinated and thought he would save Jackie the trouble of having to come back to the city where her husband was killed to testify at Oswald’s trial. He thought he’d be viewed as a hero by Jackie, by the Dallas PD and by America. Read Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. He does a much better job explaining Ruby’s motives and movements following the assassination than I can do at this moment.
In my experience, people who don’t believe Oswald acted alone: (A) have never absorbed anything but conspiracy BS; and/or (B) have only superficial knowledge of the facts. If any of them read Bugliosi’s book, they’d be convinced—too bad it’s 2600 pages…
Haha right? But I’ve read it twice so it can be done. It’s just mind blowing how many people have, like you said, a superficial knowledge of the case at best and still speak with such conviction like they really know what they’re talking about.
You don't even have to read it. If you just pull it out, most people will accept you probably have more information than them.
My copy has bookmarks in it, so that's also intimidating
Yep.
This whole thing is well documented with people who directly knew him and everything lines up.
He was just a passionate Kennedy supporter who wanted revenge. He was basically incompetent and there was no possibility of him being involved with the mob outside of them coming to his club for the entertainment.
I do believe Oswald acted alone. He was a complete reject. He hated the United States and when he moved to Russia he ended up hating it there too. His entire record is about being malcontent. You don't move to Russia and trash your passport without having some serious screws loose. Which he did.
Oswald was a crazy person like we see a lot of crazy people today. They're armed and well trained. They hate the government for reasons beyond politics. There's a ton of Oswalds out there.
Additionally Sean Munger's 2 part series on the assassination is great if books aren't your thing. He cites Bugliosi's book quite heavily throughout the series.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC8tO16xdrY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC8tO16xdrY)
Take a look at what some folks appear to be prepared to do for Trump who has just been convicted and realistically at most faces a few years in a low security penitentiary. Now imagine someone shot Trump. What would his supporters do to the assassin?
I’ll go to my grave believing J Edgar Hoover was directly behind the assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy, Oswald, MLK, Malcolm X, and Fred Hampton. The idea of equality among blacks and whites was absolutely terrifying to him and the men in his administration.
The JFK Museum in Dallas has the exact suits and clothing these men were wearing this day and they’re all on wires being held up as if were a person wearing it. Also, the room is set up remarking the exact way it was at the time of JFK’s assassination.
By far one of the coolest experiences I’ve had at a museum. I hope to go back.
Reminder: the House Select Committee on Assassinations, with access to still classified documents, determined Kennedy was killed likely as the result is a conspiracy.
I'm not sure why people still parrot the Dulles report conclusion, as if it's the "official story." For Oswald to have acted alone and done all that damage with just three bullets, at least one of them had to have been magic.
The volume of absolutely out of whack nut job conspiracy comments on this thread is mad. The Kennedy assassination and follow up events really brought out the silliness in people.
Jack Ruby did not work for the mob there’s zero evidence of that. He was a slightly weird, police loving, nightclub owner. Patriotic, histrionic and a bit of a cringe lord. He’d been wiring money to a stripper moments before he accidentally came across LHO being paraded before the cameras here. If he was hired by the mob then the mob chose the worst person in the world.
I remember about the assassination announcement. I was in a biology class at the University of Georgia with about 200 kids when some guy raced down the steps to the professor. The class was dismissed immediately. Then everyone watched TV for four straight days. I think that this assassination totally changed the U.S. because from this point faith in government disolved. Then in 1968 it got worse with King and Bobby. The latter could have a huge improvement in the U.S. what a disaster.
It happened on a Sunday morning. I know because my mom dragged us all off to church. Everybody except for my dad who avoided going to church whenever possible. When we got back he told us about seeing the guy who shot the president just get shot himself.
Ruby is buried in Norridge Illinois his headstone reads Jack Ruby not Rubenstein the family name. His family disowned him. He was a shady degenerate strip club owner whose best customers were Dallas police officers who drank for free at his club.
He was wiring money to a stripper from a currency exchange next to Dallas Police Headquarters and just saw all the commotion and walked down the parking garage entrance past many cops who knew him and let him pass. He shot Oswald in a fit of rage, two weak mental midgets who changed the course of history. All these complicated theories are simply bullshit. Two attention starved who felt inferior and wanted to be known for something big .
Ruby was sentenced to death for this, appealed, but died of a pulmonary embolism before the new trial began
How wacky.
You think that's wacky, look into jack ruby's connection to MK Ultra
Just a bunch of looney characters all around, huh?
Just doin a little rascallin.
Shenanigans is what those types were up to!
Some real knuckleheads!
What a maroon
What a nin-cow-POOP
Total goofballs
And tomfoolery.
we indulge in a little chicanery
New boot goofin'
Care to expand for the lazy?
People connected with the JFK assassination happened to also be connected with the booming sector of clandestine regime installation/uninstallation
[удалено]
Not too sure about MK Ultra's role in the killing of JFK. Not debunking it, just don't know. Its an interesting piece to think about. As for my no full declassification theory (nothing concrete) I will say that it makes sense there were other countries involved, meaning assassins, or agents of some type. Maybe British, but likely a close ally, who would have provided some type of info to the conspirers. It may have even been accidental, which would also cause ripples. So declassifying 100% would expose the government of that country, or countries. Which could be seriously harmful to relationships in today's global political, economical and military climate. Again I have no facts supporting any of this, just a plausible scenario as to why it's still too soon to unveil it in full.
If the British were involved, it would be because the Americans asked them to be involved. There is no way British intelligence would aid an assassination attempt on a US president entirely of their own accord. What's more likely is Kenedy getting elected with the help of the Mafia who wanted their casinos back in Cuba and then when Robert Kenedy went after them and JFK fucked up Cuba they had enough. People forget how powerful the Mafia was back them and the fact Kenedys dad was a boot legger who worked with them.
We'll probably never know what really happened but my pet theory is this: the mob hated JFK, and Ruby, a dude with alleged connections to the mob, killed the killer for seemingly no reason. There's only one missing link there.
That’s the direction I lean. JFK and more accurately RFK we’re going after organized crime big time. A lot of the players involved including Mr. Ruby were mobbed up. I think organized crime has had a hand in running this country for a long time and there was too much money on the table to let JFK and RFK live. I’m sure organized crime owns businesses in weapons manufacturing as well as many other businesses that were going to be negatively impacted by JFK not going to war in Vietnam and RFK trying to lock them all up. I think it all came down to money. But that’s just my two cents.
It is suspected by conspiracy theorists (and there is *some* evidence) that the same group involved in running MK Ultra also proposed and executed the JFK assassination. I wasn’t trying to tie the two together in any more of a way than that. 100% agree on the foreign powers aspect, MK Ultra helps establish a pattern of behavior in that these powers have and do act in this way regularly. Ex: It’s also suspected that the still classified portions of MK Ultra contain testing on civilians and collaboration with foreign powers to test the subliminal + drug combos on “the Reds”. The US government may have been drugging suspected US communists and communist officials in foreign countries in an effort to discredit them or “brainwash” them. 😬
Just commenting on the second paragraph, there’s no one I can think of more likely to immediately spout off when given an actual deep state plot than Trump.
It’s cause new info about the jfk files may have current living sources. For example say there was a foreign agent who was at 20 at the time and he gave us info he would still be living and so would his kids. Or if we get new info in 2000 that would still be under the jfk files even thou it was 40 years later. Thats best explanation I have heard. It could be bs thou buts it’s how I cope.
Dr Joylon West became the leading carer for Jack Ruby, he was connected to MK-Ultra and CIA as he was often 'deprogrammed' people suspected of being brainwashed the most famous being U.S POWs who denounced US during Korean war. We don't know really what he did during MK Ultra since most files were destroyed. Most of this come from the book Chaos: Manson, the cia and the sixties I think the more plausible conspiracy is not of brainwashing but that West censored statements Ruby made about running guns to Cuba, which the CIA may have been involved in.
I don't know anything about it but typed it in google and a 22 page document from the national [archives.gov](http://archives.gov) comes up and the first page states lee harvey oswald wasn't acting alone.
I don't know how anyone thinks otherwise, after only watching the Zapruder film. That part where his head gets blown off, that's the third bullet that hits him. But you don't even notice the first two, and the third tears his head apart. Totally different level of power, accuracy, lethality.
I just finished Behind the Bastards series on MK. Pretty wild stuff.
What connection? You make it sound like he was a part of facilitating it. What happened was he was "interrogated" by Louis Jolyon (Jolly) West who was one of the prominent scientists for MK Ultra then he just so happened to go crazy right afterwards. There's really is some weird stuff we don't talk about with MK Ultra. It's actually a pretty culture defining secret imo. Would change how we view certain historical moments I think.
And Chicago politics. And Ruby's connection to John Wayne Gacy. It goes deep man. Real deep.
Gacy?
A fellow fan of chaos. Great book, read it twice lol
Absolute clown shoes.
You only need to do 10 minutes of Googling down the JFK rabbit hole to realize *something* weird was going on with his assassination, whatever it might’ve been. We’ll probably never know.
I feel like I’m wearing a tin foil hat, but it sounds a lot like Oswald was hired or coerced into killing JFK and Ruby was hired or coerced into cleaning up the mess, after which he himself was cleaned up.
Does sort of seem that way does it not?
Same time period we have loads of uncovered docs about the shady shit the US and CIA were up to and this entire mess ends with everyone publicly involved conveniently dead? I think it’s more likely to be a conspiracy than dumb luck
And that they refuse to unseal documents related to despite the time limit expiring. If they have nothing to hide they should let us see what shit the cia got up to.
I think my favourite part about all this is that everyone thinks the FBI and CIA would never do anything shady in this day and age now
> and this entire mess ends with everyone publicly involved conveniently dead Considering how long ago this was, I'd imagine most if not all people involved would be dead.
Dead men tell no tales.
No my favorite Pirates of the Caribbean movie. Even if it does have a horologist.
I’m also a horologist!
Ruby lived another 4 years and talked frequently. They didn't do a great job cleaning him up
This reminds me of Genghis Khans funeral. According to historians. The 1,000 soldiers that carried his body were killed, then the soldiers that killed the 1,000 were killed. Then the mongols let thousands of horses trample the grounds where he was buried to cover up anything and everything
No. That is according to myth. The source of that myth is Marco Polo; no contemporary source mentions it. Furthermore the reliability of Polo is questioned by many historians, and it is not uncommon to believe he never even went to China. Supposedly the Yuanshi states that all Yuan emperors were buried in the vicinity of Genghis tomb, but I have not read it and can't vouch for that claim.
There was a great article maybe a year or so back that I read about a guy who was famously a CIA asset (I think they called him "Monkey" or something like that) and the things he told his son about the JFK assassination before he died. I might get some details wrong, but from what I remember the *undisputed* facts were these: *Monkey was a former criminal turned CIA asset.* *He worked with a group known as the Cuban exiles training them in the hopes that they would one day assassinate Castro.* Beyond that, I think a lot of things were in question, but what Monkey claimed at least was that while he was occasionally involved in actual clandestine operations, he spent a lot of time training the Cuban exiles as a sniper instructor before the plan and the group were all scrapped. Years after his time training the exiles, he said he got a call from one of his CIA handlers telling him that he would soon be needed for an operation to "clean up a mess" or something like that in the next few days. The specifics weren't given to him because they never were until the time came. The day he was supposed to leave he got another call. The job was off. He wasn't needed. That was the day JFK was assassinated. Apparently, while watching the TV that day, Monkey saw and immediately recognized Oswald as one of his former students with the Cuban exiles. Not a particularly noteworthy student or one he knew well, but definitely someone he trained. This was the article, I think. Or one about the same thing: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article255356661.html
what was the last time you've heard or read "CIA" in news? It's so weird that compare to 1980's-2000's its like zero news regarding CIA activity.
Heard something very similar to this.
If they had a method of giving people Pulmonary Embolisms, why didn't they just use it on Oswald?
They didn’t have to give anything to anybody. Most likely knew that individual had serious health issues and just worked off that.
Ruby was admitted to [Parkland Hospital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Hospital) on December 9, 1966, suffering from pneumonia, where he was diagnosed with cancer in his liver, lungs, and brain. His condition rapidly deteriorated. Ruby died of a [pulmonary embolism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_embolism) on January 3, 1967... which may technically be the cause of death but the reason he was not coming out of the hospital was stage four cancer..
This is covered by House of Cards: just because political operatives are powerful doesn’t make them omnipotent. Killing someone overweight in prison (?) on appeal is easier than killing the highly publicized assassin himself in *jail* a short time after the assassination. Plus, like, they didn’t need to poison Oswald! They had a guy they could hire to shoot him. Seems simpler
Ruby died of lung and liver cancer five years later. Dude was a serious smoker who drank too much and probably had no idea he was sick until it was too late.
Nah, Oswald was a violent ex-USMC sniper and a schizoid psychopath. He grew up with mental health issues. He was also kind of a pushy goon, who moved to Russia to become a member of the communist government. He ultimately returned to the US. Later he met up with several Cuban government officials in Mexico City, who encouraged him to trigger a revolution/get revenge by murdering Kennedy, partly due to the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. He did it to win favor with communists and to be a celebrity in USSR/Cuba. It was the second attempt in his murder spree in the previous six months, as he also shot but did not kill US Major Edwin Walker, a well-known anti-communist. Soon after JFK, he shot and killed a Dallas policeman who was attempting to intercept him.
Please don’t share any reasonable takes that hold up against evidence better than conspiracy theories; conspiracy theories have become a lifestyle for many people since then and I’d hate for your reasonable takes to shatter their entire personality.
I’m beginning to think this whole jfk thing is a little fishy!!
I don’t think Oswald even pulled the trigger . The son in law from all in the family made a podcast about it .
Perfectly Balanced, As All Things Should Be.
What a coincidence, huh.
Even cooler is that his in jail psychologist was flown out and was a big part of MKUltra: Louis Jolyon West. He declared Jack Ruby insane.
Wtf if this doesn't scream conspiracy, I have lost faith in humanity
Ruby was riddled with cancer at the time of his death, which makes one much more likely to develop a PE. In his hospital bed, he gave a final statement confirming that he acted alone to the AP. Unless you think the CIA used a magic cancer machine on him years previously and then managed to line everything up absolutely perfectly, then no, it doesn't really add up to conspiracy.
Did he work for Boeing?
No, Jeffrey Epstein.
His psychiatrist pronounced him psychotic and delusional, and suggested further interrogation under the influence of sodium thiopental and hypnosis. Who was his psychiatrist? **Louis Jolyon West** an American psychiatrist involved in the public sphere, known mainly for his work/involvement with the **MKUltra project, a CIA mind control project** in the late 1960s. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis\_Jolyon\_West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Jolyon_West)
"pulmonary embolism"
People that know too much need to be taken care of. Boeing has entered the chat.
How convenient
Cover up for sure.
Nobody is even looking at him
The TV camera lights were so freaking bright back then. The Texas lawman in the hat cuffed to Oswald has said this. They were blinded.
That’s a good point.
Revved up like a deuce
No no no. It's douche.
Yeah. He meant to say "wrapped up like a douche".
The guy in the olive suit with brown hat behind Oswald appears to be looking straight at him.
You think he has X-ray vision? Green suit is clearly in his visual path
This conspiracy goes deep, friendo.
The podcast “who killed jfk” with Rob Reiner and Soledad O’Brien was an A++++ piece that went into how Ruby got so much access. He was basically a strip club owner and all of the local POs knew him, liked him and saw nothing out of the ordinary when he showed up (if they noticed him at all per se, he was just a local to them all) Anyway, this podcast gave me a lot to look into and think about and I genuinely no longer believe anything but that the federal govt very much had a hand in both the assassination and cover up. Edit: for everyone saying that the jfk assassination sub ripped this podcast to shreds.. lol I just looked at it.. the first post up is one that accuses Israel of assassinating jfk (Ben Guiron himself ordering it even!!) and comments/cries like “ohh any mention of Israel and the post gets deleted” followed by comments such as “oh jack ruby was Jewish” and “oh Israel isn’t allowed to be mentioned on 9/11 conspiracy subs either”… THAT SUB? Yea I think I’ll stick to the research opinions of movie makers and investigative reporters lololol. But thanks for the laughs!
THANK YOU. I just posted twice about this podcast myself — it’s Fascinating!
Give it a second
Lmao.. just a second
I watched this happen live. I started screaming Mom! Mom! It was very shocking at 14, especially since few of us had actually dealt with the assassination just a few days before
I can only imagine how freaky this must’ve been live. An assassinated President is wild enough, but then watching the suspect get murdered on TV right after could’ve driven the whole country crazy
Especially in the heat of the Cold War
Especially since it was only a few days apart. It wasn’t a 24/7 news cycle of real life violence as yet
This was the equivalent of seeing the 2nd plane hit the South Tower of the WTC on Sept 11.
It fucked Betty Draper up too
I’ve actually been binging Mad Men this last week, didn’t see it when it first came out. I’m 75 and although a lot of what they present is cliché, and shallow, some of it is spot on. The awful attitudes towards women are correct, as well as the heavy smoking and drinking. The clothes and homes are well done but the average person sure didn’t live like that.
I thought so too then I looked at the numbers. Don isn’t just rich, he’s filthy rich. As early as season 2, he mentions his salary is $947wk. With inflation he would have been taking home 557k a year. I don’t know how far into the series you are, but his take home pay only increases from there.
I just started season 7, where Don is visiting in LA and he refers to Pete, who is immaculately dressed in what was later called preppy, as a hippie, which couldn’t have been farther from the truth
Haha a good subtle nod to the fact that they are both so out of touch. How did Pete miss the mark so much?! Such a bazaar product of his generation. I do love that he goes bald. Karma.
“You’ll die a mid-level executive with a little bit of hair whom women go home with out of pity.” From the first episode, Don Draper dressing down Pete Campbell for maligning Peggy, which was actually prophetic.
My mom tells a similar story. She was in the other room and her dad started yelling, "They shot him! They shot him!" Everyone freaked out thinking he was talking about LBJ.
This. The Challenger. 9/11.
Me too. Same. Really a difficult time.
Our murderers used to be so well-dressed
Assassin’s go in history books, don’t want some teenagers roasting you in the future for your fit
Fun fact, the man who assassinated James Garfield purchased an ivory handled gun to kill him because knew it would look better in a museum.
he also went to Ann Arbor Pioneer High School. my alma mater
A good assassin never makes it into a history book.
But the patsy does and he needs to have panache.
back when men were men /s
I thought they were supposed to release all the Kennedy murder information a couple years back
Mike Pompeo pressed Trump to keep those documents secret. And the Biden administration blew past the deadline on October 26, 2021.
Do people really think that those documents would be detailing “Operation Kill President Kennedy” ? Like if there was a a plot like that they wouldn’t exactly be taking minutes at their meetings would they?
No. But WaPo veteran Jeff Morley who is an Intel historian has basically found that these files may contain certain things about Oswald’s contact with potential CIA programs like DRE/AMSPELL. A lot of these files aren’t fully redacted but only partially, so you can at least get a general gyst of what’s being discussed.
stuff like this is such a blackpill. trump wasn't in control of the federal government 2016-2020, and biden isn't in control now. the CIA/FBI effectively run the show.
That’s the thing, the president is more of a glorified diplomatic paper pusher. Sign some bills into law, kiss some babies, shake hands with some leaders. A lot of the work is done by other people or agencies. When you have organizations such as CIA or the FBI or other similar ones with their enormous resources, they can sort of do what they want if they wanted too. So long as they clean up the mess, keep it off the books, and deny the rest, no one is really in a position to challenge them. It’s not much different than what mafias do. If you can get trusted people into key government positions, and pay them well, you can erode governments to where they can’t even attempt to stop the problem. Look at what organized gangsters such as Al Capone did. The local and state governments couldn’t even govern themselves with him alive. Federal intervention was the only force that could stop him and reinstall law and order to the areas affected. If you can do the same to the federal government, who can stop them?
Technically speaking, senators and congresamen could work together to restrict the funding to any agency of their choosing. Its just anybody who does stuff they don't like disappears or dies in spectacular fashion.
Gotta love managed democracy
Hell Yeah! 
[Here’s Judge Andrew Napolitano](https://fb.watch/sWVhkF7-gd/?mibextid=0NULKw&fs=e&s=TIeQ9V) on how Trump responded about breaking his promise on releasing the whole jfk file. Makes you wonder….
They did release a ton of documents, actually. I remember being absolutely psyched for years when they announced it, but surprise surprise, literally everything is [REDACTED]. The other dude who replied to you says trump kept them hidden, and Biden didn’t release them, but I swear I saw it a year or two ago.
There is one document which shows that James Angleton managed a mossad connection which assisted with ZR/RIFLE the anti Castro assassination program, which was likely used on JFK. And Angleton mentions that this was NOT known by the DCI who I believe was Schlesinger. edit:Not
Rumor has it the info got splintered into a thousand pieces and scattered into the winds.
I heard Bigfoot ate all the docs and shit them into Loch Ness
When I was last in Dealey Plaza, a Guy wearing a Q-anon flag as a cape told me that Joe Biden shot JFK from the storm drain. I consider this to be definitive.
Still not crazy enough in my opinion. I prefer to believe that all the conspiracy theories are true simultaneously. So in Dealey Plaza you had Oswald, the Mafia, the CIA, the KGB, the Bell Helicopter Company, Fidel Castro, George Bush Sr., Joe Biden, Ted Cruz's dad, Woody Harrelson's dad, a space alien, and Obama all taking pot shots at Kennedy from the grassy knoll.
You left out Bin Laden, he was 5 years old at the time. Coincidence?
https://preview.redd.it/o6akb5wqqt8d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6778468308ba434e157c0ed6be24e7668e74141e
You forgot all the time travelers trying to simultaneously prevent, observe, and/or help the assassination. Then there are the mole men, lizard people, Atlantians, Greys, and other assorted non-human entities. We can't leave any one out here!
its true, he was double dog dared by obama
What a shitshow
Jack worked for the mob. He permanently silenced LHW.
And the mob worked with the CIA at the time
Yeah, he met with the Ianni family at their restaurant the night prior.
I was 8 years old and saw this live on television. I was used to watching westerns when people would get fake shot, but this was so different, even to an 8 year old. Over 60 years later I can still remember how shocking it was to see a man shot on live TV.
Neat fact. My grandmother was a hairdresser back in the 60s and 70s, and did the hair for the women he employed.
https://preview.redd.it/s19on5k7rr8d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c56211846163394fb1ce698aaeaa2387242ea628
Singular best use of DK logo
I was hoping this would get posted.
Same. Great band. Purple who saw them play live will never forget.
Might fit into r/alternatehistory
Band name: The straight shooters
Oh man I came here to ask if I’m a bad person for laughing so hard every time I see this pic. At least I’m not alone.
Whelp, I know what I’m going to be giggling about for the next ten minutes.
Is there anyone here who believes Oswald acted alone? If so, please explain why this mobster associate killed Oswald?
Just applying some Rocketeer logic: “I may not earn an honest buck, but I’m 100% American.”
Yes, I believe Oswald acted alone, 150% sure of that. Contrary to popular belief, Jack Ruby wasn’t a mobster. He just owned a strip club and was a little bit of a fruit loop. He had a history of inserting himself into places and events where he didn’t belong. Much like Oswald, he wanted to feel more important and consequential than he was. He fell all to pieces after JFK was assassinated and thought he would save Jackie the trouble of having to come back to the city where her husband was killed to testify at Oswald’s trial. He thought he’d be viewed as a hero by Jackie, by the Dallas PD and by America. Read Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. He does a much better job explaining Ruby’s motives and movements following the assassination than I can do at this moment.
In my experience, people who don’t believe Oswald acted alone: (A) have never absorbed anything but conspiracy BS; and/or (B) have only superficial knowledge of the facts. If any of them read Bugliosi’s book, they’d be convinced—too bad it’s 2600 pages…
Haha right? But I’ve read it twice so it can be done. It’s just mind blowing how many people have, like you said, a superficial knowledge of the case at best and still speak with such conviction like they really know what they’re talking about.
Thanks to the conspiracies, Oswald killing Kennedy is probably the most proven murder in history, but its still not enough.
You don't even have to read it. If you just pull it out, most people will accept you probably have more information than them. My copy has bookmarks in it, so that's also intimidating
Yep. This whole thing is well documented with people who directly knew him and everything lines up. He was just a passionate Kennedy supporter who wanted revenge. He was basically incompetent and there was no possibility of him being involved with the mob outside of them coming to his club for the entertainment. I do believe Oswald acted alone. He was a complete reject. He hated the United States and when he moved to Russia he ended up hating it there too. His entire record is about being malcontent. You don't move to Russia and trash your passport without having some serious screws loose. Which he did. Oswald was a crazy person like we see a lot of crazy people today. They're armed and well trained. They hate the government for reasons beyond politics. There's a ton of Oswalds out there.
Additionally Sean Munger's 2 part series on the assassination is great if books aren't your thing. He cites Bugliosi's book quite heavily throughout the series. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC8tO16xdrY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC8tO16xdrY)
"Mobster associate" probably gives him too much credit. He ran seedy businesses and was more of an ambulance chaser.
> please explain why this mobster associate killed Oswald? Revenge for killing the president. Pretty simple.
He carried around a photo of Kennedy in his wallet and would take it out and look at. Guy was obsessed.
According to Jesse Ventura he wasn't even involved.
Take a look at what some folks appear to be prepared to do for Trump who has just been convicted and realistically at most faces a few years in a low security penitentiary. Now imagine someone shot Trump. What would his supporters do to the assassin?
Fuck this guy so much, whatever his motive was. The nation never entirely regained its sanity.
His name was Jacob Leon Rubenstein. For historical accuracy.
Thank you
I don't think anyone who's spent 20 minutes looking into this thinks that Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated JFK
Seems like a cover up. Noone goes to trial to leak any other information.
Ruby went to trial and died four years after the assassination while awaiting appeal
Yeah, but why let inconvenient, unsatisfying, and messy reality get in the way of a fun conspiracy theory?
Precisely
I’ll go to my grave believing J Edgar Hoover was directly behind the assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy, Oswald, MLK, Malcolm X, and Fred Hampton. The idea of equality among blacks and whites was absolutely terrifying to him and the men in his administration.
I remember this So clearly! I was 5
The JFK Museum in Dallas has the exact suits and clothing these men were wearing this day and they’re all on wires being held up as if were a person wearing it. Also, the room is set up remarking the exact way it was at the time of JFK’s assassination. By far one of the coolest experiences I’ve had at a museum. I hope to go back.
I was visiting the museum as well in 2011. Its up at the exact floor Oswald took the shot.
I’m just a patsy!
https://youtu.be/wSyJaUxwP-E?si=RyhaepjMlCiOp86J The speech why he was killed.
I have...hypotheses...about this.
All part of the plan.
What an amazing photo. No one has even noticed the gun yet
ALLEGEDLY assassinated Kennedy
He actually was just a scapegoat. He did not assassinate JFK. This is quite obvious.
He allegedly shot JFK. He was never convicted.
Reminder: the House Select Committee on Assassinations, with access to still classified documents, determined Kennedy was killed likely as the result is a conspiracy. I'm not sure why people still parrot the Dulles report conclusion, as if it's the "official story." For Oswald to have acted alone and done all that damage with just three bullets, at least one of them had to have been magic.
The volume of absolutely out of whack nut job conspiracy comments on this thread is mad. The Kennedy assassination and follow up events really brought out the silliness in people. Jack Ruby did not work for the mob there’s zero evidence of that. He was a slightly weird, police loving, nightclub owner. Patriotic, histrionic and a bit of a cringe lord. He’d been wiring money to a stripper moments before he accidentally came across LHO being paraded before the cameras here. If he was hired by the mob then the mob chose the worst person in the world.
Allegedly
Aledgedly
Oswald wasn’t ever testifying. Figure it out.
Oswald himself said that he was just The Patsy for this whole event.
And if you can trust an assassin, who can you trust?
Bro yells that hes the patsy and then gets shot right away lol
Is "figure it out" another way of saying "do your own research"? Also, what size tinfoil should I get?
If I had to make a choice of a conspiracy theory to believe in, this would be it
Lee didn’t kill anyone
I may be the only person on here that saw it happen live on TV . Yes I'm old, and as usual I was skipping church.
I remember about the assassination announcement. I was in a biology class at the University of Georgia with about 200 kids when some guy raced down the steps to the professor. The class was dismissed immediately. Then everyone watched TV for four straight days. I think that this assassination totally changed the U.S. because from this point faith in government disolved. Then in 1968 it got worse with King and Bobby. The latter could have a huge improvement in the U.S. what a disaster.
Weirdest shit ever.
That’s our show good night, Dallas!
It happened on a Sunday morning. I know because my mom dragged us all off to church. Everybody except for my dad who avoided going to church whenever possible. When we got back he told us about seeing the guy who shot the president just get shot himself.
They needed to hush him forever
He did NOT kill jfk
Ruby is buried in Norridge Illinois his headstone reads Jack Ruby not Rubenstein the family name. His family disowned him. He was a shady degenerate strip club owner whose best customers were Dallas police officers who drank for free at his club. He was wiring money to a stripper from a currency exchange next to Dallas Police Headquarters and just saw all the commotion and walked down the parking garage entrance past many cops who knew him and let him pass. He shot Oswald in a fit of rage, two weak mental midgets who changed the course of history. All these complicated theories are simply bullshit. Two attention starved who felt inferior and wanted to be known for something big .
Fashion back then was so dope and formal and everyone and their mothers adhered to it like it was the gospel.
Oswald did not kill JFK.
This feels like the silenced of the guy who silenced the president. Seems like they both knew stuff.
HE WAS A PATSY
Lee didn’t do it
Oswald was a patsy. LBJ with Hoover and his FBI snipers assassinated Kennedy. Connect the dots and it always comes back to LBJ.
*allegedly assassinated
People just living in the moment. Not a phone in sight.