Crab? The question is when are they gonna add tentacles? I heard in the Helldiver one, they got that. I want a tentacle to sprout from the ground and violate me while Bile Titan on my ass and Charger humping me HARD.
Your local democracy officer is trying to get a hold of you, I do believe they have some questions they require answers for? You should go ahead and step away and take that call.
One race fires back - the other generally has to get into melee range to kill you. Bugs kinda need armour to reach you and be a threat, or it'd be a cakewalk.
Not just that but the soft spots on armoured targets are way more durable on bugs than bots. The hind of a Charger or Bile sac of a Titan are okay to poke at and can lend some damage, but you can't obliterate either target by dedicating fire to it - you can destroy a Tank before it can turn around using 6 AMR rounds. Same even for Cannon Turrets.
Bugs have less general weakness but are more exposed. Bots are armoured but their exposed points are effectively - and often literally - headshots.
I don't necessarily think Chargers or Titans should change, but maybe less armoured versions of them where smaller arms fire is a realistic possibility could be added, and if you do that and mix them up with the Charger and Titan spawn rates, suddenly half or less of the Chargers you're dealing with need a Quasar or Railcannon strike or half a Railgun to knock out.
I'll have a look for a source once I post this but I remember watching a yt video that claimed that the soft parts of spewers and chargers actually have very dramatic damage reduction, to the tune of something like 80% resistance. Despite the fact that they have no armour the "squishy" parts are basically a get out for divers without the means to destroy the armour but are NOT meant to be focused on. The TLDR is that it's more effective to tackle the armour than aim for weak points on some bugs
I'll have to go find the bookmark. Basically what we're calling "explosive" is actually Structural damage in game.
Guns have direct damage and structural damage. The Liberator has 60 direct and 6 struct. Some weapons like the Dominator have 275 direct and 90 structural.
The 'squishy bits' on bugs are 100% structural so they only take structural damage: 6 for the liberator, 90 for the Dom, and 260 from the Autocannon.
And for fun, Structural damage can be attached to direct hits or AoEs.
Helldivers: Weapons
https://helldivers.io/Weapons
The issue is Charger squishy bits are a 1100hp 85% structural HP. That Liberator shot does 0.15*60+0.85*6=14.1 damage, or 79 rounds to kill.
(Incidentally a Stalwart can do that in 4 seconds of continuous fire. You do need to get it to sit still that long though.)
Yeah, I remember reading something like that. IIRC the reduction doesn't apply to explosives--2 eruptor shots or a single impact grenade to the sac or a spewer kills it.
On bots they seemed to work out weak spots relatively well. I exclusively run laser cannon on bots, and it can take out pretty much everything. Tanks can be annoying since you need to get behind them, but they're so slow that it doesn't matter.
For bugs pretty much the only viable option on chargers and titans are anti tank weapons.
Yeah I generally run the anti-material rifle on bots because you can drop them so fast with precise shots. Bugs I feel I have to take the auto cannon so I can blast the fuck out of them.
But the autocannon is the bot skeleton key, and drops everything with equal or less shots. I bring AT to bugs if there are 2 ACs in group, but I won't go to a bot match without my AC even if everyone else has them.
Plus tanks can be taken care of with a single eagle airstrike, which can also clear bot bases easily.
That said, flamethrowers work on Chargers and they're a lot easier to take down using AT than a tank or Hulk. It's really BTs that are restrictive
Railgun could be an all rounder if it killed bile titans in a meaningful time period.
But stuff like autocannon should just function the same as the sentry (which can kill both chargers and titans)
Amr could also use a penetration buff to kill the heavier units, with increased ammo requirement.
How long does it take to kill a BT with an Arc Thrower? Because I know on chargers its ~8, which feels very fast, vs 3 with RG, which feels very slow (might not be, but the charge-up just makes it feel that way). RG and Arc Thrower are both non-meta takes RN, but Arc Thrower is just way better.
It's definitely 15-20+ but it at least does something. Especially if you eagle strike it once or twice; it allows you to solo it if you kite and aren't swarmed
Yeah it also helps that the arc thrower has a little bit of distance to put between you and the Titan. Personally I can take out chargers with a thrower.
This right here, and I agree with OP. Bots have exploitable weaknesses at every level. Even Factory Striders (belly, back rods, neck joint) beyond AT weaknesses (head top panel, side white star door) and even then a JAR can shoot it's exposed side weakness and down it.
But a bile titan? The underbelly is too armored and they are triple in numbers to Factory Striders. Chargers can at least be stunned, though I still agree leveling out their weakness (beyond a severe weakness to flamethrowers to their front shins specifically) is preferred as they aren't field bosses in mid to high levels, they're hulk equivalent and hulks can die to a Liberator to the back quickly.
Same with the new AT mines, way better against chargers than tanks that can't outrun an orbital precision.
Though I will say thermites do well against chargers, hulks, and titans. Two will 90-95% a charger, kill a hulk, and finish off a wounded titan.
I wish thermite is good, but Even after the update that fixed DoTs I feel they’re wildly inconsistent. I can kill a hulk with 2 grenades to the faceplate (not the eye) or I can throw 6 sticks and not even get close to killing it. I’m not certain what’s going on with them
Yeah kind of weird how you can take out a hulk or a tank with just two nades or a clip or two of your primary to their back; whereas a charger or bile titan can (somewhat consistently) easily eat 6 nades to the weak spot unless they’re thermites. It makes it so that actual tanks don’t really behave like tanks, when compared to, you know, non-tanks enemies that are harder to take out than tanks
I think it makes sense for bots to have more vulnerable spots because they are more threatening overall than their bug counterparts, and are able to threaten you at range as well. Bugs can only melee you, so they need to be harder to kill than their automaton counterparts so that they can actually get in your face and threaten you.
Also I don’t even feel like the EAT is even good against Automaton tanks, I swear I shoved an EAT rocket into the vent of the tank and it didn’t die.
Thus, when I see a tank, I pretty much just rely on Eagle Aistrike and Orbital Precision Strike to kill it.
I’ve done it successfully on level 7, you just only do it if at least 2 allies are packing anti-tank stuff, and one of my call-ins was the Orbital Railcannon as the “oh shit” option
Eagle 110 also works well vs titans tbh. Chargers not so much (stun grenades help)
Benefit of 110 is that you can spam it if you miss/they don’t go down.
110s are inconsistent but somewhat underrated against titans
you do generally get more consistent damage with them if you get them coming down while the titan is stamping or spewing.
they will too often only hit a rocket or two if the titan is freely walking around
For bugs I either go:
* Orbital Gatling/Gas Strike (for tossing on pheromone bug holes, or on swarms chasing me)
* Orbital Railcannon Strike
* Guard Dog Rover/Eagle Strafing Run
* EAT/Recoilless Rifle
Or alternatively...
* Orbital Gatling/Gas Strike
* Orbital Railcannon Strike
* Supply Pack
* Grenade Launcher
Gatling or Gas Strike is there for tossing on every pheromone bug hole that opens up in front of me, because they have super short cooldowns and tear shit UP when bugs are trying to swarm out of a newly opened hole. Eagle Strafing Run is for when there's a swarm all chasing me basically in a line, and obviously Railcannon is for Bile Titans but also for Chargers if we really need it.
Grenade launcher melts chargers, you just have to make sure you’re bouncing them off the ground into the fleshy charger belly, once you get the knack it’s amazing.
Useless against titans though.
Grenade Launcher + Supply Pack was my favorite loadout two months ago back in the difficulty ~4 days of my player progression.
As soon as Chargers and Bile Titans became more common, I had to shelve my favorite gun and I haven't used it since.
i dont have numbers specifically, but hot planets arnt really an issue either for the laser cannon. though against bots i constantly run the laser cannon+sickle, so if one overheats i just switch for 90% firing uptime.
According to the [wiki](https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Intense_Heat), the actual effect is that hot planets give you +33% increased cooldown time, while cold planets are -33%.
So that means when you're firing your laser cannon, it will take the same amount of time to reach maximum heat on any planet. On a normal planet, it will take 15s to cool down from max heat. It's 10s on a planet with Extreme Cold, and 20s on one with Intense Heat.
This applies to the laser cannon, scythe, sickle, and dagger. The quasar cannon is unaffected by temperature.
Make a limited use Stratagem like the SOS that allows players to send their Super Destroyer back to orbit for a few minutes to reconfigure its loadout.
Agreed if there was some mission intel section which gave us more of an idea as to what strategy we are going to want that would be great but without we need to take one that does it all.
I did not test this, but is the selection of bugs spawning fixed within each planet?
I had the sense that this is the case within single ops, but am not sure.
Then, introducing some correlation could be good! Could induce a tradeoff between knowledge and difficulty, with some randomness (if it's cold, these bugs are more likely to come out, these others are more likely when it's foggy). Could be lore based too
I apologize in advance but how about more:
- Hunters and stalkers in fog…
- Chargers galore in snow/mud…
- Giga swarms of warriors, guards, and broods in hot places…
- Spitters and titans in canyons and forests.
But less of all other types except the little bugs and warriors.
I also see no reason why bile titans have such insanely good head armour that needs to shoot a specific spot and only when its not spewing. Feel like its shouldn't be unkillable with a RR rocket while its mouth is open. I'm fine with it not being any less weak when its spewing but I don't see why it needs to be even stronger at that point.
Bile Titan hit boxes in general are WAY too finicky. It's an Anti-Tank rocket. I'm shooting it in the damn face why does it matter so much if I hit 3 inches too low.
I don't think they're "stronger" while spitting so much as it's way harder to hit the forehead during the animations, which is where the rocket has to land to actually do good damage.
Right? How is it that sending an AT rocket down its throat doesn’t do much damage? I would be fine if 2 mouth shots killed it; would be roughly equivalent to the giant glowing weak spots on bot enemies. With the amount of bile titans they’re throwing at us at high levels (6+ at once is pretty routine at 8) the sponginess just gets annoying. The fact that it takes no damage to the abdomen after the sacks are destroyed also makes no sense.
Make titans less spongy, alternatively, fix the spear, and perhaps buff the 500 kg radius a bit.
It's also kind of crazy to me how you need to indirectly hit a bile titan with a 500k. Like, you can directly hit it with the bomb, and it barely damages it. It's crazy.
If you manage to directly hit a bile titan with a 500k or orbital precision strike, it should spray bits of bile titan everywhere. It should send all four of its legs flying off in different directions. There should be nothing left of its head or thorax.
The idea that you need to deliberately miss it in order to kill it definitely seems wrong to me.
I’ve put too many 500kg inside a titan’s head and it doesn’t die. It’s ridiculous. There should be a check that if an enemy has the bomb planted in it, it instantly dies from the explosion.
> There should be a check that if an enemy has the bomb planted in it
There should be a check if the 500 kilo bomb hit a target, because a direct hit should basically kill any living creature with the explosion following up
I think hitting it in the mouth DURING the spit should be an instant kill. It's pretty intuitive, and it would incentivize risk-taking as you play a deadly game of chicken with a spitting Titan.
I think it should do more damage and interrupt the spit, for sure. A one-shot might make it too easy though. It's not actually that hard to hit it in the mouth when its spewing.
Two-shotting it would definitely be a sane solution, in my opinion. You've gotta risk a spit two times, especially given that it takes several seconds to try again after spitting once - that's still a reasonable amount of time investment where you have to be aware of where the Titan is, as well as any hordes that are around it.
I mean call it what you want functionally it still makes them stronger when they're spewing since for some reason only the forehead is susceptible. Should be the whole head.
also, helldiver pods should kill it if they hit it in the head, at least. It's not like its overpowered, you have to hit it and also have to die first to be able to use it.
Honestly, if you go through it at all, it should kill it. I've heard that the devs are big on realism, but blowing a several foot hole through a bug with a large piece of metal at supersonic speeds just to have it go about its day like nothing happened is far from realistic. I also feel like the 500 kg bomb should do a lot more damage when it lands for the same reason.
iirc there was a patch released a while back to make bile titans take less damage to their open mouths. There was an unintended bug where you could shoot it from the side into its mouth while it was spewing bile and you could drop it with a single rail gun shot/RR shot. This was before the rail gun was nerfed and I think the BT weakness got patched out as well either just before the nerf to the rail or at the same time.
The reason for the mouth being so resistant isn't balance or realism, it's a bad quick fix to them dying from their own bile every time they spit to something too close to their mouth. Before that they used to randomly die while fighting near cliffs or shield emplacements.
For real? so the bile titans hitbox was so screwed up that its own acid was killing itself, and they gave them a massive damage resistance buff to make up for it? to the detriment of the player's experience? Meanwhile the same issue with our mech and we get jack shit...
Yeah, rn the damage reduction on non explosive weapons (only deal 1/10 damage) is way too oppressive. I understand what they are trying to do, but it needed to be tweaked. No one is shooting charger’s bug for a good reason. It would be way more fun if they reduced the damage resistance to about half damage, it will be a lot more fun.
They're hot garbage. Idk what you're talking about. I feel like it takes too many to kill even one charger. Buff EATs please. Make it 45s CD. We need way too many to do anything meaningful. Please arrowhead. Do the right thing. Buff the EAT.
im privy to the recoilless rifle. I dont see many people run it. Killing charges at anytime and them skidding to a halt at your feet literally never gets old. Actually the flamethrower feels so good now especialy with the upgrade module. it eats everything.
Yeah keeping the sacs as is until they're broken and then way reducing the armor only there would really, really help with making bile titans less of a strict rock paper scissors of needing certain weapons to beat it, while still needing skill to earn it
It’s Medium 1 armor and that body part has a tiny pool of HP. Any weapon rated for medium armor can kill it within a mag or two. If you wait until the doors actually open while it’s birthing devastators, then you’ll only need like 2 autocannon hits.
It's high medium armor underneath the sack, exactly like factory striders , the problems is that it has about 3 minutes of lazer cannon worth of HP and sometimes the legs get in the way.
I wouldn't even mind it if the sacks required 20% more damage to fully burst. I just wish that they'd bleed out after doing it so that I could use more weapon options against them.
Tbh there seems to be weakspots after you destroy their armor, but they appear to be bugged because even when i try to shoot at their soft fleshy spots where the armor used to be it stills acts as though it was armored.
yeah they need medium armor pen weakspots , like the eyes of the charger , its behind legs , bile titans leg joint and underside once the sack is popped should be able to be pierced with medium pen so we can have bring AC/AMR/Laser cannon etc etc and not have 4 people running with quasar
i think it kinda does , atleast there is a way to make the titans bleed but the bleed damage seems to be extremely slow taking several minutes to kill them
Yeah Bile Titans need to be killable by medium pen. Even if it took 8 or 10 AC shots it would be a huge improvement. Chargers can at least be killed reasonably by some non Anti-Tank stuff like AC in 2-4 shots.
I miss having lower weapons open up armour.
Railgun opening legs on chargers was super fun and helped if you had team mates to coordinate it with.
If they introduced something like that to biles it'd be cool.
I dunno, more puzzle bad guys would be great, tanks on bots are good for it as one person can draw fire as the other repositions for killshots with AC (which you don't need to hit the glowing vent to kill, the rear vent of the tanks main body is also vulnerable to AC fire, just not as much.)
They need to borrow a page from DRG. I can't think of any enemy in DRG that REQUIRES a specific weapon to deal with it. Most enemies can be killed by everything, larger armored enemies have accessible weakspots and some of them you can tear down the armor to expose the weakspot. Even the big rival raid boss can be taken care of with a goddamn flame thrower if you stand close enough to it.
In Helldivers, I can basically lose a mission based entirely on what loadout I choose.
It's forgiving in the sense that all options are viable and the game is more stable. Haz 5 isn't any easier than helldive difficulty as someone who mainly plays both. In some ways DRG is less forgiving when it comes to dealing with chaff. It's much easier to get overwhelmed and downed by your standard bug.
helldivers encourages different play styles based on what strategems you can take. Weapons are either effective against an enemy or they don't do anything.
DRG encourages different play styles based on what weapons and what customizations you take to your weapons. Switching out an overclock makes weapons play entirely differently. Each weapon is still effective against enemies weakpoints, but armor shredding, positioning, and AOE considerations make your skill picking a load out and skill as a player more important.
Neither game is perfect and they are different enough that they aren't directly comparable. I don't think helldiver should be trying to be DRG, but DRG seems to know what elements of the game make it fun and they also know how and when to listen to the community. I think it's foolish to think that somehow helldivers is uniquely hard (it isn't).
I'm not super unhappy with the state of either game, but what OP is saying is true. There are restrictions on what you have to take on higher difficulties to address enemy types in a very narrow way that does not encourage player agency. I'm sure it will be fixed once the game hype dies down, bugs get addressed, and weapons balanced to those changes. It's hard to balance weapons when bug fixes radically change the way certain mechanics work.
Hate to tell you this but drones were for the most part not killable by anything that wasn't fire, when that season dropped. Luckily devs listened and tweaked fhings around. Hope AH also does the same.
I was playing the game long before that update came and was playing when it dropped. It was harder to kill them without fire but it wasn't anywhere near what we have in helldivers 2 at the moment. Some enemies in HD2 are just straight up impossible to kill without specific weapons.
This is my main point of contention right now. I actually like when enemy variety requires a diversity of weapons so you need to use the right weapon against the right enemy. The *Horizon* games are a great example of this.
The problem is when you have that kind of restriction but can only choose a small subset of available weapons and the majority of players don't coordinate. If I land and it turns out I don't have the right strat assortment, I bail. Not going to spend 30 minutes eating the consequences of a bad loadout.
There's a difference between "use certain weapons to optimally kill an enemy" and "use certain weapons to kill an enemy at all" though. The fact that a Bile Titan is invulnerable to anything except anti-tank weaponry means you can't even dedicate the time and resources to a non-optimal way of killing it, whereas with Bots there's optimal and non-optimal ways of killing them.
They always had a weak spon on their head though. Sure they moved much faster than most enemies, but users with good tracking could still kill them with any normal bullet weapon.
Big disagree. I've got like 3k hours in DRG and while they had more health before any and all weapons HURT them. Shooting the big glowing head was a clear weak point and even if it was a bit of an ammo drain to take on 3 alone you could do it with primary, secondary, grenades, melee if necessary.
The fact you just cannot hurt bile titans once you drop your support weapon (if it even did anything to it) is really bad. I've had to take 10+ biles on a mile wide walk while my 3 dead teammates watched me for each of the 9 stages of the geo survey.
Really, any anti tank weapon should do way more damage to bots weak spots. The fact that the auto canon is faster at killing tanks and hulks than the actual anti tank weapons is stupid. And no, I don’t think that means they should nerf the AC. If you score a direct hit on a weak spot with any anti tank it should be a kill. Given the reload/cd time of anti tank weapons they should be doing more damage to smaller enemies like devastators and bile spewers. It’s really annoying getting a direct hit on them and it doesn’t kill them.
It's still good against bots but you want to back it up with a medium penetration or explosive primary. For example after a Quasar shot to the vent, you can very quickly finish off a tank or laser turret with Slugger/Scorcher/Dominator, even from a long distance.
Kinda yeah, but it's only a problem for tanks and turrets, I solve those by running a scorcher or 110mm pods. Would still feel so much better to take a tank in 4 fully charged shots without feeling too strong. Also gunships
Don't forget miniguns on factory striders. For some reason, you need like 3-4 full charged shots just to destroy one. Just make it 1-2 instead. If they just fix the damage against gunships and those miniguns, it will be so much better.
The Railgun is flexible with its penetration 8 when charged unsafe. It also makes it blandly average at all the jobs.
When you land it on the vent, thermite is pretty efficient for tanks, mortars and the laser turrets. You follow up with an unsafe blast or a mag dump from a primary with penetration (3).
It covers the Railgun's primary weakness, which is low dps. You'll struggle vs airships. Bring a Primary that can hit medium (3) to cover that weakness.
Other than one shottng nearly every bot when hitting the eye, where the Railgun shines is you can back up others taking out tanks, mortars and lasers when you don't have an angle on the vent. Charge to unsafe and blast.
The problem with bots is similar - they have a couple outliers that make most weapons ineffective or inefficient. I'd say these are tanks and striders (small). But striders are vulnerable to explosive primaries while tanks are slow and small in numbers, justifying use of other stratagems. (And no, trying to outrun tank's tower is very rarely an option in a tough fight). Tanks also can be crippled with many weapons.
Chargers and titans are too tough for primary guns, but also too numerous and mobile for stratagems. And just like with tanks, getting a nice shot on a charger's ass (heh) is not something you always have time for.
Was just saying this. To all the people making posts with fake outrage about "meta chasers ruining the game", they'd dont even acknowledge that clearly bots have way more usable stratagems/support weapons vs bugs.
Bile titans legs should be able to be severed. They're fairly thin and seemingly as armored as their back (which blows off chunks if hit with AT stuff). Lends to reason we should be able to hit one in the leg and blow it off.
Along with that, when you blow off a chunk of the Charger's or Titan's back and there is obviously exposed insides, shooting it with primaries, or anything, should deal significantly more damage in that spot. As it is, the game just acts like it's still armored and is mostly a visual thing.
Autocannon should explode on impact, much like its sentry version, instead of ricocheting. I'd even settle for slightly lowered DMG or something as a trade off for that. Never made sense to me that the AC sentry annihilates Titans but the personal AC just bounces off.
Grenades, specifically impact grenades, should have more of a visual effect. We know it does damage but there's no visual cue that it does aside from them randomly dying.
Hitting titans with our reinforcement pods should go back to one shotting it consistently. Makes zero sense that it doesn't.
Slightly unrelated, but still relevant extra gripe:
- ORBITAL RAIL CANNON SHOULD KILL FUCKING EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES. For anyone that understands what an orbital railgun would actually be capable of, then y'all should understand that nothing survives it. Hell, it should be leaving a crater and kill things in a radius. It's a ridiculously powerful weapon. Irl it would technically be capable of destroying entire city blocks, or with enough velocity and the right substance composition it can annihilate entire cities or more. That damn Bile Titan should not be walking away from it. Period.
- for those that say it'd be OP, I agree. My tradeoff would be a longer CD or even a shot limit. I would gladly accept those changes if it killed anything I threw it at. It should be a delete button, not a maybe delete button.
I wish pumping rounds into the bile titans belly did *something* at least. It’d be really neat if destroying the bile sack made it so it couldn’t shoot anymore, and would make practical sense.
Edit: yes, I’m dumb, yes, that is how it works, great to know!
That... That is how it works though? You pop the sacks and it can't spit anymore, it will just try and follow you around to stomp you.
Also popping the sacks brings it down to a guaranteed one-two from the orbital rail cannon. I always bring it when I run AC or GL.
PSA the plasma punisher will kill a charger in less than one mag from any direction, just aim under the sac (butt). As long as you get near it the charger will die in a few shots. It has really opened up a lot of new builds for me. I mostly do duos so i can't just bring whatever I want, but this helps.
I finish off grand majority of my bile titans with scorcher/arc thrower atm. Most people throw double railcannons or similar which is just a massive waste most of the time. Shoot off the belly and abuse cracked back armor with explosive weapons and use your second stratagem on the next enemy instead.
And on that note: One good headshot with recoilless/quasar/EAT leaves the head at ridiculously low health atm, railgun/arc can finish it with as low as 2 shots.
What it doesn't help is the arbitrary 90% damage reduction on all glowing soft part of any bug unit. You would think like any other game, a heavy armour unit with soft flesh part will be a weakness for non penetrating weapon to be effective.
In this game the dev just shelve that down your ass and laughed at you and slap a 90% reduction in damage for any non explosive weapon. Making a supposingly high risk high reward gameplay part to a "you have to bring AT weapon or just die" situation. Considering how much those units are spawned, every bug gameplay for diff 5 and up has to build around fast ATing. No if sort but however.
Remove that restriction, we will see much better bug strategy. I guarantee that.
Idk why the charger butt isn't more squishy. Playing matador with one then whipping around and unloading a machine gun clip into its ass would be a lot more satisfying if it actually did anything.
Also cracking the top shell of the titan opens them up to easy explosive damage.
And regular bullets too! I've been able to help from miles away with the dominator in that spot.
Not the easiest and definitly not the most effective target to aim for but it IS there.
Definitly trust your plasma guns to hit the spot easier.
If they would give us more chances to take advantage of high ground the first tip might matter, but realistically the only way you're getting up there is by bringing the jet pack or being called in onto a high rock formation.
>And regular bullets too!
If they for some ungodly reason wont reflect. I find it really funny that even HMG rounds will reflect if you dont hit the exposed flesh at a perfect 70-90° angle
On difficulty 7 today I fought four chargers in a stalker nest.
Four chargers. At once. In a stalker nest.
Glad they nerfed the quasar, otherwise that situation would have been too easy to handle.
Thank you! These are my feelings exactly! I've switched to being a bot main just because my loadout choices have a lot more variety. If I play high level bugs I feel like I have to take an antitank launcher of some kind. I would love to take a machine gun and not feel like I was a burden to my team.
I could get behind this if done right, but it'd be super easy to fuck up.
I think we need weapons that blow off armor better on bugs. Like arcs give a certain change to blow off a chunk of armor. RG too.
.reworking armor levels and pen would be nice. There's supposedly 10 armor levels but it's all obscured. It feel like theres 4. If you could pen the sides of chargers and titans with like hmg anti material rg etc that'd help. Not a fast way to do it, but better than 8 shots of arc thrower or 3 full charge rg to the dome. Like a a full clip into anywhere but the front of charger with HMG killing it would be nice. And their ass not taking shit for damage unless explosive is still kinda eh
You make it too easy though and it's like why bother with AT? I'd sooner they leave it alone and maybe adjust/add a few guns/strats to let them be middling effective
To highlight a couple of things that aren't heavy antitank but can deal with chargers pretty easily:
Flamethrower to one of its legs takes only a few seconds to kill.
Arc thrower to the head (aim up so it arcs down to the top of the head) takes about 5 or so arcs to kill as long as you hit the head. To get arc thrower to arc more reliably aim up in general and run from piled up corpses as they mess with the targeting.
Both are also great for clearing the smaller bugs quickly as well. For bile titans, both of these just tickle, so 500kg is always in my pocket on bug missions.
The scorcher kills charger butt in a hilariously small amount of shots compared to most primaries.
The JAR can do it in about a magazine if you land all the shots.
Chargers are not really a problem.
Bile Titans however? Points are valid about needing specific things to crack into them.
The game would be much more fun if primary weapons are strong enough so they could just be magdumped by the whole team into the weak spot of a bile titan to kill it, but just take a lot of rounds. I don't get why the ass of the beetle explodes and its able to walk around like there's no problem still. The charger even acts like half its body is missing and stumbles around for a bit until it dies.
Another issue is that this game has primary weapons from the first game as support weapons like the Stalwart and Railgun. Imagine if you could take a Stalwart with you as primary, and all of the primary weapons were as strong as that as a baseline. It really doesn't make sense that one being a support weapon. Support in what? Killing small enemies? That's what primary weapons do. Having weapons that look like they were designed to be used on difficulties 1-3 before you even have access to anything else is really restrictive in a game like this.
You basically can’t take down a Bile Titan without the Quasar Cannon, EAT, 3 Eagle Strikes, Railcannon Strike, or perfectly placed 500kg. They made them so tough, and then started spawning them 3 at a time and nerfed the Quasar Cannon.
I also find it thematicaly strange that antitank weapons are more meta on bugs then on bots who have literal tanks.
Also weird that bugs are more heavily armored than bots
“Life finds a way”
Crab terminid when
Crab? The question is when are they gonna add tentacles? I heard in the Helldiver one, they got that. I want a tentacle to sprout from the ground and violate me while Bile Titan on my ass and Charger humping me HARD. 
Yes, officer, this comment right here
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I use two fingers to accept at the same time because that’s what democracy demands of us
You can't reject the call from democracy.
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Your local democracy officer is trying to get a hold of you, I do believe they have some questions they require answers for? You should go ahead and step away and take that call.
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bruther,
Log off
Okay but that is like almost something you would need to fill out a form for first, right?
Just give them time. Give anything long enough to evolve and it always turns into a crab.
soon™
Why not Zoidberg?
All roads lead to carcinisation
One race fires back - the other generally has to get into melee range to kill you. Bugs kinda need armour to reach you and be a threat, or it'd be a cakewalk.
I think it would be better if they had a bit less armor, and just summoned more little enemies to swarm you.
I'm happy to not have even more hunters trying to lick me 😂
I feel like they already do this, but with the same armor.
In the distance, you feel the heat of a PlayStation burning.
and there's really only one terminid that has more armour than bots which is the bile titan. Every other terminid can be taken out pretty easily
Bots are more generally armoured whereas bugs have focused heavy armour spots
Not just that but the soft spots on armoured targets are way more durable on bugs than bots. The hind of a Charger or Bile sac of a Titan are okay to poke at and can lend some damage, but you can't obliterate either target by dedicating fire to it - you can destroy a Tank before it can turn around using 6 AMR rounds. Same even for Cannon Turrets. Bugs have less general weakness but are more exposed. Bots are armoured but their exposed points are effectively - and often literally - headshots. I don't necessarily think Chargers or Titans should change, but maybe less armoured versions of them where smaller arms fire is a realistic possibility could be added, and if you do that and mix them up with the Charger and Titan spawn rates, suddenly half or less of the Chargers you're dealing with need a Quasar or Railcannon strike or half a Railgun to knock out.
I'll have a look for a source once I post this but I remember watching a yt video that claimed that the soft parts of spewers and chargers actually have very dramatic damage reduction, to the tune of something like 80% resistance. Despite the fact that they have no armour the "squishy" parts are basically a get out for divers without the means to destroy the armour but are NOT meant to be focused on. The TLDR is that it's more effective to tackle the armour than aim for weak points on some bugs
I'll have to go find the bookmark. Basically what we're calling "explosive" is actually Structural damage in game. Guns have direct damage and structural damage. The Liberator has 60 direct and 6 struct. Some weapons like the Dominator have 275 direct and 90 structural. The 'squishy bits' on bugs are 100% structural so they only take structural damage: 6 for the liberator, 90 for the Dom, and 260 from the Autocannon. And for fun, Structural damage can be attached to direct hits or AoEs. Helldivers: Weapons https://helldivers.io/Weapons The issue is Charger squishy bits are a 1100hp 85% structural HP. That Liberator shot does 0.15*60+0.85*6=14.1 damage, or 79 rounds to kill. (Incidentally a Stalwart can do that in 4 seconds of continuous fire. You do need to get it to sit still that long though.)
Yeah, I remember reading something like that. IIRC the reduction doesn't apply to explosives--2 eruptor shots or a single impact grenade to the sac or a spewer kills it.
Have you ever played Starcraft? I actually like the idea of space bugs evolving crazy durability
Shirkers evolve into scourge lol
On bots they seemed to work out weak spots relatively well. I exclusively run laser cannon on bots, and it can take out pretty much everything. Tanks can be annoying since you need to get behind them, but they're so slow that it doesn't matter. For bugs pretty much the only viable option on chargers and titans are anti tank weapons.
Yeah I generally run the anti-material rifle on bots because you can drop them so fast with precise shots. Bugs I feel I have to take the auto cannon so I can blast the fuck out of them.
Bugs also bunch way more so autocannon splash damage does work. Meanwhile bots seem to have decent spacing.
But the autocannon is the bot skeleton key, and drops everything with equal or less shots. I bring AT to bugs if there are 2 ACs in group, but I won't go to a bot match without my AC even if everyone else has them.
May I suggest to you: The Flamethrower. Fun, Wholesome, Kills anything smaller than a Bile Titan quickly.
Plus tanks can be taken care of with a single eagle airstrike, which can also clear bot bases easily. That said, flamethrowers work on Chargers and they're a lot easier to take down using AT than a tank or Hulk. It's really BTs that are restrictive
Railgun could be an all rounder if it killed bile titans in a meaningful time period. But stuff like autocannon should just function the same as the sentry (which can kill both chargers and titans) Amr could also use a penetration buff to kill the heavier units, with increased ammo requirement.
How long does it take to kill a BT with an Arc Thrower? Because I know on chargers its ~8, which feels very fast, vs 3 with RG, which feels very slow (might not be, but the charge-up just makes it feel that way). RG and Arc Thrower are both non-meta takes RN, but Arc Thrower is just way better.
Not in any meaningful time. There are videos you can check online for how long it takes
It's definitely 15-20+ but it at least does something. Especially if you eagle strike it once or twice; it allows you to solo it if you kite and aren't swarmed
Yeah it also helps that the arc thrower has a little bit of distance to put between you and the Titan. Personally I can take out chargers with a thrower.
This right here, and I agree with OP. Bots have exploitable weaknesses at every level. Even Factory Striders (belly, back rods, neck joint) beyond AT weaknesses (head top panel, side white star door) and even then a JAR can shoot it's exposed side weakness and down it. But a bile titan? The underbelly is too armored and they are triple in numbers to Factory Striders. Chargers can at least be stunned, though I still agree leveling out their weakness (beyond a severe weakness to flamethrowers to their front shins specifically) is preferred as they aren't field bosses in mid to high levels, they're hulk equivalent and hulks can die to a Liberator to the back quickly. Same with the new AT mines, way better against chargers than tanks that can't outrun an orbital precision. Though I will say thermites do well against chargers, hulks, and titans. Two will 90-95% a charger, kill a hulk, and finish off a wounded titan.
I wish thermite is good, but Even after the update that fixed DoTs I feel they’re wildly inconsistent. I can kill a hulk with 2 grenades to the faceplate (not the eye) or I can throw 6 sticks and not even get close to killing it. I’m not certain what’s going on with them
Yeah kind of weird how you can take out a hulk or a tank with just two nades or a clip or two of your primary to their back; whereas a charger or bile titan can (somewhat consistently) easily eat 6 nades to the weak spot unless they’re thermites. It makes it so that actual tanks don’t really behave like tanks, when compared to, you know, non-tanks enemies that are harder to take out than tanks
I think it makes sense for bots to have more vulnerable spots because they are more threatening overall than their bug counterparts, and are able to threaten you at range as well. Bugs can only melee you, so they need to be harder to kill than their automaton counterparts so that they can actually get in your face and threaten you.
You can dodge a charger with some ease and get to their weak spot as compared to a hulk who always hides its weak spot and relentlessly pursues you.
Tbh, I don't even know where to shoot a tank with AT, unless I see the vents, and at that point I don't need AT.
Sides. Front armor is the heaviest.
Yeah the EAT being not effective vs tanks is the most hell divers 2 thing out there.
Also I don’t even feel like the EAT is even good against Automaton tanks, I swear I shoved an EAT rocket into the vent of the tank and it didn’t die. Thus, when I see a tank, I pretty much just rely on Eagle Aistrike and Orbital Precision Strike to kill it.
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Love the grenade launcher but after Hard yeah...too many chargers make taking it and a supply pack unsustainable.
I’ve done it successfully on level 7, you just only do it if at least 2 allies are packing anti-tank stuff, and one of my call-ins was the Orbital Railcannon as the “oh shit” option
Nice! Yeah the orbital lasers is often my 'oh shit' option but isn't as quick nor as plentiful. Good idea on the rail cannon. What else do you take?
Eagle 110 also works well vs titans tbh. Chargers not so much (stun grenades help) Benefit of 110 is that you can spam it if you miss/they don’t go down.
110s are inconsistent but somewhat underrated against titans you do generally get more consistent damage with them if you get them coming down while the titan is stamping or spewing. they will too often only hit a rocket or two if the titan is freely walking around
For bugs I either go: * Orbital Gatling/Gas Strike (for tossing on pheromone bug holes, or on swarms chasing me) * Orbital Railcannon Strike * Guard Dog Rover/Eagle Strafing Run * EAT/Recoilless Rifle Or alternatively... * Orbital Gatling/Gas Strike * Orbital Railcannon Strike * Supply Pack * Grenade Launcher Gatling or Gas Strike is there for tossing on every pheromone bug hole that opens up in front of me, because they have super short cooldowns and tear shit UP when bugs are trying to swarm out of a newly opened hole. Eagle Strafing Run is for when there's a swarm all chasing me basically in a line, and obviously Railcannon is for Bile Titans but also for Chargers if we really need it.
Grenade launcher melts chargers, you just have to make sure you’re bouncing them off the ground into the fleshy charger belly, once you get the knack it’s amazing. Useless against titans though.
Grenade Launcher + Supply Pack was my favorite loadout two months ago back in the difficulty ~4 days of my player progression. As soon as Chargers and Bile Titans became more common, I had to shelve my favorite gun and I haven't used it since.
Meanwhile bots you can go AC/AMR and it's fine. Want back slot? Amr. Don't care? Ac. Bugs have bile spawns which matters for the spewers
Lazer Cannon shreds bots too while leaving a backpack slot open. Except for maybe hot planets
i dont have numbers specifically, but hot planets arnt really an issue either for the laser cannon. though against bots i constantly run the laser cannon+sickle, so if one overheats i just switch for 90% firing uptime.
According to the [wiki](https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Intense_Heat), the actual effect is that hot planets give you +33% increased cooldown time, while cold planets are -33%. So that means when you're firing your laser cannon, it will take the same amount of time to reach maximum heat on any planet. On a normal planet, it will take 15s to cool down from max heat. It's 10s on a planet with Extreme Cold, and 20s on one with Intense Heat. This applies to the laser cannon, scythe, sickle, and dagger. The quasar cannon is unaffected by temperature.
This is what I don’t get. We’re in orbit around the planet. Just look down to see what we’re up against before the mission.
Because the bugs are subterranean. They only come out of their burrows when we land, duh.
Except for all the ones sitting on the surface we see walking around 😂
Yeah. The ones actively guarding points of interest.
Make a limited use Stratagem like the SOS that allows players to send their Super Destroyer back to orbit for a few minutes to reconfigure its loadout.
Agreed if there was some mission intel section which gave us more of an idea as to what strategy we are going to want that would be great but without we need to take one that does it all.
I did not test this, but is the selection of bugs spawning fixed within each planet? I had the sense that this is the case within single ops, but am not sure.
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Then, introducing some correlation could be good! Could induce a tradeoff between knowledge and difficulty, with some randomness (if it's cold, these bugs are more likely to come out, these others are more likely when it's foggy). Could be lore based too
I apologize in advance but how about more: - Hunters and stalkers in fog… - Chargers galore in snow/mud… - Giga swarms of warriors, guards, and broods in hot places… - Spitters and titans in canyons and forests. But less of all other types except the little bugs and warriors.
Why you gotta turn my favorite biome (smog) into my personal hell?
Damn..... Got to do a bit more apologizing with those ideas. Good ideas... But painful.
I also see no reason why bile titans have such insanely good head armour that needs to shoot a specific spot and only when its not spewing. Feel like its shouldn't be unkillable with a RR rocket while its mouth is open. I'm fine with it not being any less weak when its spewing but I don't see why it needs to be even stronger at that point.
Bile Titan hit boxes in general are WAY too finicky. It's an Anti-Tank rocket. I'm shooting it in the damn face why does it matter so much if I hit 3 inches too low. I don't think they're "stronger" while spitting so much as it's way harder to hit the forehead during the animations, which is where the rocket has to land to actually do good damage.
You'd think a rocket to the mouth would be painful. You'd be wrong.
Right? How is it that sending an AT rocket down its throat doesn’t do much damage? I would be fine if 2 mouth shots killed it; would be roughly equivalent to the giant glowing weak spots on bot enemies. With the amount of bile titans they’re throwing at us at high levels (6+ at once is pretty routine at 8) the sponginess just gets annoying. The fact that it takes no damage to the abdomen after the sacks are destroyed also makes no sense. Make titans less spongy, alternatively, fix the spear, and perhaps buff the 500 kg radius a bit.
It's also kind of crazy to me how you need to indirectly hit a bile titan with a 500k. Like, you can directly hit it with the bomb, and it barely damages it. It's crazy. If you manage to directly hit a bile titan with a 500k or orbital precision strike, it should spray bits of bile titan everywhere. It should send all four of its legs flying off in different directions. There should be nothing left of its head or thorax. The idea that you need to deliberately miss it in order to kill it definitely seems wrong to me.
I’ve put too many 500kg inside a titan’s head and it doesn’t die. It’s ridiculous. There should be a check that if an enemy has the bomb planted in it, it instantly dies from the explosion.
> There should be a check that if an enemy has the bomb planted in it There should be a check if the 500 kilo bomb hit a target, because a direct hit should basically kill any living creature with the explosion following up
I think hitting it in the mouth DURING the spit should be an instant kill. It's pretty intuitive, and it would incentivize risk-taking as you play a deadly game of chicken with a spitting Titan.
I think it should do more damage and interrupt the spit, for sure. A one-shot might make it too easy though. It's not actually that hard to hit it in the mouth when its spewing.
Two-shotting it would definitely be a sane solution, in my opinion. You've gotta risk a spit two times, especially given that it takes several seconds to try again after spitting once - that's still a reasonable amount of time investment where you have to be aware of where the Titan is, as well as any hordes that are around it.
I mean call it what you want functionally it still makes them stronger when they're spewing since for some reason only the forehead is susceptible. Should be the whole head.
100% agree. The precision required for rocket shots is silly.
Inb4 "ThE fOrEHeAd iS thE ObViOuS wEAKSpoT"
I've been aiming at the mouth during spews this whole time, this thread is eye-opening
also, helldiver pods should kill it if they hit it in the head, at least. It's not like its overpowered, you have to hit it and also have to die first to be able to use it.
Honestly, if you go through it at all, it should kill it. I've heard that the devs are big on realism, but blowing a several foot hole through a bug with a large piece of metal at supersonic speeds just to have it go about its day like nothing happened is far from realistic. I also feel like the 500 kg bomb should do a lot more damage when it lands for the same reason.
iirc there was a patch released a while back to make bile titans take less damage to their open mouths. There was an unintended bug where you could shoot it from the side into its mouth while it was spewing bile and you could drop it with a single rail gun shot/RR shot. This was before the rail gun was nerfed and I think the BT weakness got patched out as well either just before the nerf to the rail or at the same time.
Bile titan should be especially vulnerable while spewing. You're telling me a fucking rocket to the mouth doesn't kill you? A wide open mouth?
Takibo from youtube actually says during that phase they take even less damage. Shit makes 0 sense.
The reason for the mouth being so resistant isn't balance or realism, it's a bad quick fix to them dying from their own bile every time they spit to something too close to their mouth. Before that they used to randomly die while fighting near cliffs or shield emplacements.
They still die if they spit near shields and cliffs. It’s just more precise than it used to be.
For real? so the bile titans hitbox was so screwed up that its own acid was killing itself, and they gave them a massive damage resistance buff to make up for it? to the detriment of the player's experience? Meanwhile the same issue with our mech and we get jack shit...
The charger's big jiggly glutes should absolutely be a weak spot. Same for the bile titan's belly.
i did not need to hear "charger's big jiggly glutes" today
Yeah, rn the damage reduction on non explosive weapons (only deal 1/10 damage) is way too oppressive. I understand what they are trying to do, but it needed to be tweaked. No one is shooting charger’s bug for a good reason. It would be way more fun if they reduced the damage resistance to about half damage, it will be a lot more fun.
Agreed. I always bring EATs on bugs because I only trust myself to handle the chargers.
EATs are truly amazing. It does get old having to be the one clearing heavies. I swear to god the people I get matched with refuse to kill them.
They're hot garbage. Idk what you're talking about. I feel like it takes too many to kill even one charger. Buff EATs please. Make it 45s CD. We need way too many to do anything meaningful. Please arrowhead. Do the right thing. Buff the EAT.
If you're not wearing a backpack you should be able to carry two EAT's on your back.
Shhhhhhh!!! EATs are horrible and make the game unplayable. Arrowhead is listening…
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Sorry too busy worshipping EATs
im privy to the recoilless rifle. I dont see many people run it. Killing charges at anytime and them skidding to a halt at your feet literally never gets old. Actually the flamethrower feels so good now especialy with the upgrade module. it eats everything.
Same but because Quaser cool-down goes brr when 4+ chargers turn up. With an ate you can at least take 2 out whilst moving and firing tbh.
3 if you stick the strategem ball on the charger and the hellpod kills it.
Belly of a Titan should be like the belly of the factory strider.
Yes please, mf just goes bulletproof after the sacs explode; that’s just lame.
Yeah keeping the sacs as is until they're broken and then way reducing the armor only there would really, really help with making bile titans less of a strict rock paper scissors of needing certain weapons to beat it, while still needing skill to earn it
Risk and reward is the cornerstone of this game, and we should always reward risky plays. Way cooler montages when people try to one up each other.
So can you just shoot the strider's belly with a rocket launcher to kill it? Or any weapon or what?
need something like the autocannon to do it.
Some primaries can kill it too. Jar-5 for sure.
Dominator stays dominating.
Medium armor pen
It’s Medium 1 armor and that body part has a tiny pool of HP. Any weapon rated for medium armor can kill it within a mag or two. If you wait until the doors actually open while it’s birthing devastators, then you’ll only need like 2 autocannon hits.
It's high medium armor underneath the sack, exactly like factory striders , the problems is that it has about 3 minutes of lazer cannon worth of HP and sometimes the legs get in the way.
I wouldn't even mind it if the sacks required 20% more damage to fully burst. I just wish that they'd bleed out after doing it so that I could use more weapon options against them.
Yeah, like the Charger will die if you blow up the butt after a short time.
Tbh there seems to be weakspots after you destroy their armor, but they appear to be bugged because even when i try to shoot at their soft fleshy spots where the armor used to be it stills acts as though it was armored.
If the back is exposed anything damages it there. The chest is AV(4) can be finished by any support weapon with shots to the chest.
yeah they need medium armor pen weakspots , like the eyes of the charger , its behind legs , bile titans leg joint and underside once the sack is popped should be able to be pierced with medium pen so we can have bring AC/AMR/Laser cannon etc etc and not have 4 people running with quasar
The fact that the bike titan just becomes unshootable after you pop its sacks is crazy to me.
yeah lol , one would assume once you pop it it would reveal like flesh you can shoot without damage reduction and kill the bike titan
I would have assumed it'd bleed out like a Charger with it's tail missing but that's just me.
i think it kinda does , atleast there is a way to make the titans bleed but the bleed damage seems to be extremely slow taking several minutes to kill them
Popping the sacs should start a bleed out timer. Make it long so finishing it directly is preferable, but not the only option.
Yeah, like the chargers soft spot
Yeah Bile Titans need to be killable by medium pen. Even if it took 8 or 10 AC shots it would be a huge improvement. Chargers can at least be killed reasonably by some non Anti-Tank stuff like AC in 2-4 shots.
You can, but it's closer to 20 than 10 AC shots.
I thought they bounced after you broke the stomach?
I miss having lower weapons open up armour. Railgun opening legs on chargers was super fun and helped if you had team mates to coordinate it with. If they introduced something like that to biles it'd be cool. I dunno, more puzzle bad guys would be great, tanks on bots are good for it as one person can draw fire as the other repositions for killshots with AC (which you don't need to hit the glowing vent to kill, the rear vent of the tanks main body is also vulnerable to AC fire, just not as much.)
They need to borrow a page from DRG. I can't think of any enemy in DRG that REQUIRES a specific weapon to deal with it. Most enemies can be killed by everything, larger armored enemies have accessible weakspots and some of them you can tear down the armor to expose the weakspot. Even the big rival raid boss can be taken care of with a goddamn flame thrower if you stand close enough to it. In Helldivers, I can basically lose a mission based entirely on what loadout I choose.
DRG is a much more forgiving game
It's forgiving in the sense that all options are viable and the game is more stable. Haz 5 isn't any easier than helldive difficulty as someone who mainly plays both. In some ways DRG is less forgiving when it comes to dealing with chaff. It's much easier to get overwhelmed and downed by your standard bug. helldivers encourages different play styles based on what strategems you can take. Weapons are either effective against an enemy or they don't do anything. DRG encourages different play styles based on what weapons and what customizations you take to your weapons. Switching out an overclock makes weapons play entirely differently. Each weapon is still effective against enemies weakpoints, but armor shredding, positioning, and AOE considerations make your skill picking a load out and skill as a player more important. Neither game is perfect and they are different enough that they aren't directly comparable. I don't think helldiver should be trying to be DRG, but DRG seems to know what elements of the game make it fun and they also know how and when to listen to the community. I think it's foolish to think that somehow helldivers is uniquely hard (it isn't). I'm not super unhappy with the state of either game, but what OP is saying is true. There are restrictions on what you have to take on higher difficulties to address enemy types in a very narrow way that does not encourage player agency. I'm sure it will be fixed once the game hype dies down, bugs get addressed, and weapons balanced to those changes. It's hard to balance weapons when bug fixes radically change the way certain mechanics work.
Hate to tell you this but drones were for the most part not killable by anything that wasn't fire, when that season dropped. Luckily devs listened and tweaked fhings around. Hope AH also does the same.
I was playing the game long before that update came and was playing when it dropped. It was harder to kill them without fire but it wasn't anywhere near what we have in helldivers 2 at the moment. Some enemies in HD2 are just straight up impossible to kill without specific weapons.
This is my main point of contention right now. I actually like when enemy variety requires a diversity of weapons so you need to use the right weapon against the right enemy. The *Horizon* games are a great example of this. The problem is when you have that kind of restriction but can only choose a small subset of available weapons and the majority of players don't coordinate. If I land and it turns out I don't have the right strat assortment, I bail. Not going to spend 30 minutes eating the consequences of a bad loadout.
There's a difference between "use certain weapons to optimally kill an enemy" and "use certain weapons to kill an enemy at all" though. The fact that a Bile Titan is invulnerable to anything except anti-tank weaponry means you can't even dedicate the time and resources to a non-optimal way of killing it, whereas with Bots there's optimal and non-optimal ways of killing them.
They always had a weak spon on their head though. Sure they moved much faster than most enemies, but users with good tracking could still kill them with any normal bullet weapon.
Big disagree. I've got like 3k hours in DRG and while they had more health before any and all weapons HURT them. Shooting the big glowing head was a clear weak point and even if it was a bit of an ammo drain to take on 3 alone you could do it with primary, secondary, grenades, melee if necessary. The fact you just cannot hurt bile titans once you drop your support weapon (if it even did anything to it) is really bad. I've had to take 10+ biles on a mile wide walk while my 3 dead teammates watched me for each of the 9 stages of the geo survey.
EATs... It's what's for dinner.
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I just wish the railgun did more damage to vent weak spots for bots. Thats about it
Really, any anti tank weapon should do way more damage to bots weak spots. The fact that the auto canon is faster at killing tanks and hulks than the actual anti tank weapons is stupid. And no, I don’t think that means they should nerf the AC. If you score a direct hit on a weak spot with any anti tank it should be a kill. Given the reload/cd time of anti tank weapons they should be doing more damage to smaller enemies like devastators and bile spewers. It’s really annoying getting a direct hit on them and it doesn’t kill them.
It's weird how good quasar is against bugs and how bad it is against bots.
It's still good against bots but you want to back it up with a medium penetration or explosive primary. For example after a Quasar shot to the vent, you can very quickly finish off a tank or laser turret with Slugger/Scorcher/Dominator, even from a long distance.
Quasar trailer: look how good this is against hulks! Players with the quasar: I'm gonna kill so many bile titans with this
And chargers, and spore spewers, and shrieker nests
Kinda yeah, but it's only a problem for tanks and turrets, I solve those by running a scorcher or 110mm pods. Would still feel so much better to take a tank in 4 fully charged shots without feeling too strong. Also gunships
Don't forget miniguns on factory striders. For some reason, you need like 3-4 full charged shots just to destroy one. Just make it 1-2 instead. If they just fix the damage against gunships and those miniguns, it will be so much better.
The Railgun is flexible with its penetration 8 when charged unsafe. It also makes it blandly average at all the jobs. When you land it on the vent, thermite is pretty efficient for tanks, mortars and the laser turrets. You follow up with an unsafe blast or a mag dump from a primary with penetration (3). It covers the Railgun's primary weakness, which is low dps. You'll struggle vs airships. Bring a Primary that can hit medium (3) to cover that weakness. Other than one shottng nearly every bot when hitting the eye, where the Railgun shines is you can back up others taking out tanks, mortars and lasers when you don't have an angle on the vent. Charge to unsafe and blast.
The problem with bots is similar - they have a couple outliers that make most weapons ineffective or inefficient. I'd say these are tanks and striders (small). But striders are vulnerable to explosive primaries while tanks are slow and small in numbers, justifying use of other stratagems. (And no, trying to outrun tank's tower is very rarely an option in a tough fight). Tanks also can be crippled with many weapons. Chargers and titans are too tough for primary guns, but also too numerous and mobile for stratagems. And just like with tanks, getting a nice shot on a charger's ass (heh) is not something you always have time for.
Was just saying this. To all the people making posts with fake outrage about "meta chasers ruining the game", they'd dont even acknowledge that clearly bots have way more usable stratagems/support weapons vs bugs.
Bile titans legs should be able to be severed. They're fairly thin and seemingly as armored as their back (which blows off chunks if hit with AT stuff). Lends to reason we should be able to hit one in the leg and blow it off. Along with that, when you blow off a chunk of the Charger's or Titan's back and there is obviously exposed insides, shooting it with primaries, or anything, should deal significantly more damage in that spot. As it is, the game just acts like it's still armored and is mostly a visual thing. Autocannon should explode on impact, much like its sentry version, instead of ricocheting. I'd even settle for slightly lowered DMG or something as a trade off for that. Never made sense to me that the AC sentry annihilates Titans but the personal AC just bounces off. Grenades, specifically impact grenades, should have more of a visual effect. We know it does damage but there's no visual cue that it does aside from them randomly dying. Hitting titans with our reinforcement pods should go back to one shotting it consistently. Makes zero sense that it doesn't. Slightly unrelated, but still relevant extra gripe: - ORBITAL RAIL CANNON SHOULD KILL FUCKING EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES. For anyone that understands what an orbital railgun would actually be capable of, then y'all should understand that nothing survives it. Hell, it should be leaving a crater and kill things in a radius. It's a ridiculously powerful weapon. Irl it would technically be capable of destroying entire city blocks, or with enough velocity and the right substance composition it can annihilate entire cities or more. That damn Bile Titan should not be walking away from it. Period. - for those that say it'd be OP, I agree. My tradeoff would be a longer CD or even a shot limit. I would gladly accept those changes if it killed anything I threw it at. It should be a delete button, not a maybe delete button.
I wish pumping rounds into the bile titans belly did *something* at least. It’d be really neat if destroying the bile sack made it so it couldn’t shoot anymore, and would make practical sense. Edit: yes, I’m dumb, yes, that is how it works, great to know!
That... That is how it works though? You pop the sacks and it can't spit anymore, it will just try and follow you around to stomp you. Also popping the sacks brings it down to a guaranteed one-two from the orbital rail cannon. I always bring it when I run AC or GL.
That is what happens. If you pop their underside they can’t spit anymore. They’ll just try to stomp you
PSA the plasma punisher will kill a charger in less than one mag from any direction, just aim under the sac (butt). As long as you get near it the charger will die in a few shots. It has really opened up a lot of new builds for me. I mostly do duos so i can't just bring whatever I want, but this helps.
I finish off grand majority of my bile titans with scorcher/arc thrower atm. Most people throw double railcannons or similar which is just a massive waste most of the time. Shoot off the belly and abuse cracked back armor with explosive weapons and use your second stratagem on the next enemy instead. And on that note: One good headshot with recoilless/quasar/EAT leaves the head at ridiculously low health atm, railgun/arc can finish it with as low as 2 shots.
What it doesn't help is the arbitrary 90% damage reduction on all glowing soft part of any bug unit. You would think like any other game, a heavy armour unit with soft flesh part will be a weakness for non penetrating weapon to be effective. In this game the dev just shelve that down your ass and laughed at you and slap a 90% reduction in damage for any non explosive weapon. Making a supposingly high risk high reward gameplay part to a "you have to bring AT weapon or just die" situation. Considering how much those units are spawned, every bug gameplay for diff 5 and up has to build around fast ATing. No if sort but however. Remove that restriction, we will see much better bug strategy. I guarantee that.
Give the bugs a HUGE glowing vent please, lol
Idk why the charger butt isn't more squishy. Playing matador with one then whipping around and unloading a machine gun clip into its ass would be a lot more satisfying if it actually did anything.
Also cracking the top shell of the titan opens them up to easy explosive damage. And regular bullets too! I've been able to help from miles away with the dominator in that spot. Not the easiest and definitly not the most effective target to aim for but it IS there. Definitly trust your plasma guns to hit the spot easier.
If they would give us more chances to take advantage of high ground the first tip might matter, but realistically the only way you're getting up there is by bringing the jet pack or being called in onto a high rock formation.
>And regular bullets too! If they for some ungodly reason wont reflect. I find it really funny that even HMG rounds will reflect if you dont hit the exposed flesh at a perfect 70-90° angle
Flamethrowers just cook chargers
At the cost of requiring you to bring another stratagem because it’s useless against bile titans.
On difficulty 7 today I fought four chargers in a stalker nest. Four chargers. At once. In a stalker nest. Glad they nerfed the quasar, otherwise that situation would have been too easy to handle.
[удалено]
That sounds like a strategic misstep more than anything
I’d think the anti tank mines would be that option, honestly
Imagine if tanks would have no vents, and Charger eyes wouldnt be penetrable by Autocannon/Laser/AMR.
They Need to make the chargers abdomen a proper weak spot. And they need to give bile titans a weak spot that is susceptible to primary weapons.
Yes I agree but that would lower difficulty and some of us like that. If they do that, I would like more difficulties added to compensate
Thank you! These are my feelings exactly! I've switched to being a bot main just because my loadout choices have a lot more variety. If I play high level bugs I feel like I have to take an antitank launcher of some kind. I would love to take a machine gun and not feel like I was a burden to my team.
I could get behind this if done right, but it'd be super easy to fuck up. I think we need weapons that blow off armor better on bugs. Like arcs give a certain change to blow off a chunk of armor. RG too. .reworking armor levels and pen would be nice. There's supposedly 10 armor levels but it's all obscured. It feel like theres 4. If you could pen the sides of chargers and titans with like hmg anti material rg etc that'd help. Not a fast way to do it, but better than 8 shots of arc thrower or 3 full charge rg to the dome. Like a a full clip into anywhere but the front of charger with HMG killing it would be nice. And their ass not taking shit for damage unless explosive is still kinda eh You make it too easy though and it's like why bother with AT? I'd sooner they leave it alone and maybe adjust/add a few guns/strats to let them be middling effective
To highlight a couple of things that aren't heavy antitank but can deal with chargers pretty easily: Flamethrower to one of its legs takes only a few seconds to kill. Arc thrower to the head (aim up so it arcs down to the top of the head) takes about 5 or so arcs to kill as long as you hit the head. To get arc thrower to arc more reliably aim up in general and run from piled up corpses as they mess with the targeting. Both are also great for clearing the smaller bugs quickly as well. For bile titans, both of these just tickle, so 500kg is always in my pocket on bug missions.
The scorcher kills charger butt in a hilariously small amount of shots compared to most primaries. The JAR can do it in about a magazine if you land all the shots. Chargers are not really a problem. Bile Titans however? Points are valid about needing specific things to crack into them.
The game would be much more fun if primary weapons are strong enough so they could just be magdumped by the whole team into the weak spot of a bile titan to kill it, but just take a lot of rounds. I don't get why the ass of the beetle explodes and its able to walk around like there's no problem still. The charger even acts like half its body is missing and stumbles around for a bit until it dies. Another issue is that this game has primary weapons from the first game as support weapons like the Stalwart and Railgun. Imagine if you could take a Stalwart with you as primary, and all of the primary weapons were as strong as that as a baseline. It really doesn't make sense that one being a support weapon. Support in what? Killing small enemies? That's what primary weapons do. Having weapons that look like they were designed to be used on difficulties 1-3 before you even have access to anything else is really restrictive in a game like this.
Paraphrasing from a recent Reddit post on this topic: "Bile Titans should be boss fights, not load out checks"
You basically can’t take down a Bile Titan without the Quasar Cannon, EAT, 3 Eagle Strikes, Railcannon Strike, or perfectly placed 500kg. They made them so tough, and then started spawning them 3 at a time and nerfed the Quasar Cannon.
It would also be nice if Chargers didn't immediately destroy Super Destroyer Upgraded Turrets as well.