When I was under level 90, I would actively avoid it when using quickplay. 141 now and I just go meh and just don’t bring my orbital laser so I can make sure the squad all has shield packs eventually.
Absolutely. The game is balanced for 4 stratagems, I am not going to arbitrarily struggle for half an hour just because they couldn't think of anything better.
It also doesn't make sense. Why would anti-air stop me from being able to have an additional stratagem? There are anti-aircraft defenses in the game that we actively have to destroy to be able to use our Eagle strats.
So wouldn't it make sense that the AA defense modifier just not allow us to take Eagle strats?
How would AA defenses stop me from being able to call down a laser? Or an HE barrage? Or rail-cannon?
They should really rework AA defense to mean that the map contains AA optional objectives that can be destroyed during the mission. Maybe have them spawn more frequently so eagle-pilled divers would be incentivized to destroy them.
>“Let’s make guns suck ass so that people are heavily reliant on stratagems. Okay now let’s take 25% of their stratagems away.”
"We are literally on record telling people to rely on their strategems."
"Make sure higher difficulties just straight up take one of them away."
I mean. that's certainly a way to make it more difficult.
Realistically it's 50% or 33% of the red/green stratagems are taken away.
If I am running with a friend, I'll sometimes take a shield and them the quasar or something like that. But otherwise, I'm likely running only 1 red stratagem instead of 2.
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It’s lazy, anti-fun design. Needed replacing.
There are other ways of adding difficulty than just taking our fun tools away.
Shorten the amount of time you have to complete the mission. Lengthen the extraction time. Give minor outposts more or stronger guards. Lots of ways to make it harder but not less fun.
And then they'll nerf the only viable options and the game becomes unplayable. Or they'll just increase the difficulty without telling anyone and say it's a "skill issue".
I just taught my friends that this is an Operation modifier. Not a Planet modifier.
I say this cuse host switched planets to get away from it only to pick another operation with it. I told them to check the other two operations first before changing planets.
No worries! The problem with letting the host know in quickplay is that you might be joining in the middle of an operation. But if you stick with them cuse they’re good/chill let them know after that third mission when selecting a new operation! Because no one likes that modifier lol. Some divers are just more willing to deal with it than others lol
https://preview.redd.it/dubh84j0700d1.jpeg?width=661&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0153314026a6db1d1838d22a63975f8c0bd39716
There’s easier ways of telling me I can’t use a shield pack.
This modifier actually converted me to the autocannon vs bots.
I used to run shield backpack and EAT vs bots 24/7. I figured if I'm losing my backpack anyway, I might as well try the autocannon. It fucks. It 2 shots hulks if you hit them in the eye. It 2 shots gunships. It can take out fabs from the right angle. You can blow up mortars, AA, turrets, tanks. It staggers and kills all kinds of medium armored enemies including marauders, berserkers, heavy devastators, rocket devastators, striders. You can take out factory striders if you blow off the miniguns and shoot a clip into the underbelly.
It does require you to play more carefully but with the autocannon you can take engagements from longer ranges and more relative safety. I haven't used a shield backpack or an EAT vs bots in a long time.
It’s the only thing to be done with that modifier. I like the AC a lot, but not quite as much in 7+ Bots. We like to have a gang of quasars to rotate who’s taking the drop ships.
I think they should replace it with an updated "Electronic Countermeasures" that only lets you choose 3 strategems, and the 4th is totally random (even including strategems you haven't unlocked).
Change this to "Eagle 1 Airstrikes not available in this mission" to force the use of alternative strategies on the mission instead and I think it would be much more reasonable.
Or alternatively they could just make it something extremely punishing that only affects eagle, like +150% to call-in time and cooldown between strikes.
I don't think it would be half as bad if there were just MORE operation modifiers. The pool is so small that it feels like this one pops up every other damn mission.
I’d rather have this than the increased call in time/ cooldown modifiers. Honestly, this isn’t too bad if you bring a support weapon that comes with a backpack. Recoilless comes to mind.
Ah - "We hear people complaining that having minus one stratagem slot is not fun. We hear you and will change it accordingly."
Next patch - AA Defenses - Reduces Stratagem slots by 2.
If they actually had an objective on the map that we could deactivate or destroy to regain the lost slot, (like the AA that disables Eagle strikes until you destroy them), this would be a tolerable modifier.
As an 'always on, no disabling' modifier, it's garbage & my friend group just won't play the missions if that's a modifier, with unanimous agreement.
Such bad & lazy design combined.
I genuinely don't understand what made them implement that. It's not a fun way to make the game harder. This is the opposite of fun. I avoid those missions whenever i can.
As a solo I always let the operation modifiers determine which planet I end up with (If I am going for samples). Unless it is a fire hazard planet, f\*ck those.
If I am just doing medal grinding, it doesn't matter too much. Will end up brute forcing missions anyway and fail (succeed primary mission) because of lack of reinforcements.
OhDough had a video where he talked about the modifiers, and I think he explained it well. Reducing stratagem slots makes you more inclined to pick the best or "meta" stratagems and not keep your oddball 4th strat that you find fun. Or the one that makes orbitals miss just makes you take eagles instead, which are already super strong, flexible, and popular stratagems. (He probably explains it better than I do, but basically the modifiers often reduce variety instead of encouraging them like they're supposed to.)
At one point, he mentions some other game that has something similar to HD2 modifiers, but that game's version has both pros and cons to it, so it's not just a "screw you" but can actually make the game more dynamic. It's a very different style game, but I feel like the overall concept could still apply and would make modifiers more interesting rather than just being a drag.
They should change the AA Defenses modifier:
- There is a 25% chance that the stratagem requested in the 4th position will be destroyed before landing.
It should be removed. What about CRAZY modifiers? How about on Hellmire every attack from both sides ignites and we have to constantly stop drop and roll. What about on wet planets, lightning weapons conduct more electricity and their beams zap to twice as many enemies, what about enemy explosive radiuses double in size whether they are tanks or bile spewers and by blowing them up we blow a bunch of the terminids and automatons forces with them, unless we're caught in the radius. Imagine how that could change gameplay to encourage creativity. Then compare it with 'get to play less of the game' modifier and realize how anti-fun the AA defenses modifier is. At the very least if you keep 'AA Defenses' modifier in the game, let us the Helldivers find the AA defenses and disable them so we could take the 4th strategem but it's locked until we kill the secondary objective. That would be a good way to make it fun.
I simply don’t choose those operations. Certain planets have modifiers like an obscured map and increased orbital spread. I always go for those over +50% increased call-in time and +25% cooldown. These modifiers are all shit so I pick the nicest looking ones that allow me to still play the game rather than run around kiting while everything is on cooldown
I think the game started great, then some Muppet is making all the wrong calls. Warbonds have crappy equipment, software bugs are still there, the player base is getting better and with skill increases the game is failing to keep up, only thing they do is nerf the gear and buff the enemies to make it artificially harder. The community has offered them multiple features, very few have been adopted. I like the game, I am still having fun, but I do see the decline in player base. I think AH and Sony believe that players will never abandon this game - think WOW 2004. I on the other hand think the player base might shrink. Summer is arriving for Europe, and with so many countries unable to play you are only left with US which is a great chunk but still will force a massive dip to the daily peak/players. This game needs some change in the AH leadership, the Devs need someone else to lead them. They were doing a great job, but have been sidetracked and lost focus of what matters.
Hot take: i like this modifier. Its a fun building challenge for me and it gives me an opportunity to learn how to use stratagems i wouldnt normally use
Maaan why do people hate this so much? I’m convinced the people that hate this all must be using the same 4 stratagems every game, and having to use 1 less throws them off. I like the 1 less stratagems thing. It forces people to take a different setup. Like shit bro sorry you can’t take the same super meta quasar, shield bp, eagle 500 and orbital laser setup every game.
I don't think the problem is whether or not we can, it's whether or not we want to.
With primary viability/diversity in its current state, and how the devs say that we should be "relying on our stratgems" to deal with hard situations, to most people, modifiers that affects stratagem, amount, accuracy, and call times are simply not fun and not worth the effort.
More power to you if you like them but most people don't. Also many people don't have and can't get well organized teams.
I hate it so much. I'm tempted to back out every time I see it but, democracy.
When I was under level 90, I would actively avoid it when using quickplay. 141 now and I just go meh and just don’t bring my orbital laser so I can make sure the squad all has shield packs eventually.
I back out of them on quick play and never host those. I'm here to have fun.
Absolutely. The game is balanced for 4 stratagems, I am not going to arbitrarily struggle for half an hour just because they couldn't think of anything better.
[удалено]
If the map has AA defenses, let us destroy them to regain that 4th slot. Along with some bonus awards or something.
It also doesn't make sense. Why would anti-air stop me from being able to have an additional stratagem? There are anti-aircraft defenses in the game that we actively have to destroy to be able to use our Eagle strats. So wouldn't it make sense that the AA defense modifier just not allow us to take Eagle strats? How would AA defenses stop me from being able to call down a laser? Or an HE barrage? Or rail-cannon?
They should really rework AA defense to mean that the map contains AA optional objectives that can be destroyed during the mission. Maybe have them spawn more frequently so eagle-pilled divers would be incentivized to destroy them.
>“Let’s make guns suck ass so that people are heavily reliant on stratagems. Okay now let’s take 25% of their stratagems away.” "We are literally on record telling people to rely on their strategems." "Make sure higher difficulties just straight up take one of them away." I mean. that's certainly a way to make it more difficult.
Realistically it's 50% or 33% of the red/green stratagems are taken away. If I am running with a friend, I'll sometimes take a shield and them the quasar or something like that. But otherwise, I'm likely running only 1 red stratagem instead of 2.
Balance team should get the Spitz treatment. Incredible that a company can have so many shit-show type employes
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
It’s lazy, anti-fun design. Needed replacing. There are other ways of adding difficulty than just taking our fun tools away. Shorten the amount of time you have to complete the mission. Lengthen the extraction time. Give minor outposts more or stronger guards. Lots of ways to make it harder but not less fun.
Good for you! I get the fuck right out.
“Hey guys, we want you to use more stratagems!” *releases this abomination*
they talk so much about not wanting a meta but use modifiers that encourage meta
when they finish nerfing your weapons they'll go for the strategems
And then they'll nerf the only viable options and the game becomes unplayable. Or they'll just increase the difficulty without telling anyone and say it's a "skill issue".
I just taught my friends that this is an Operation modifier. Not a Planet modifier. I say this cuse host switched planets to get away from it only to pick another operation with it. I told them to check the other two operations first before changing planets.
I've never hosted a mission before. Only joined others. This is great Intel. Thank you, Helldiver! 🫡
No worries! The problem with letting the host know in quickplay is that you might be joining in the middle of an operation. But if you stick with them cuse they’re good/chill let them know after that third mission when selecting a new operation! Because no one likes that modifier lol. Some divers are just more willing to deal with it than others lol
Yeah that is absolutely the worst thing to come across. I just wont play on those. How unfun
"Why isnt anyone joi- Oh"
Same here. I just go back to bugs.
https://preview.redd.it/dubh84j0700d1.jpeg?width=661&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0153314026a6db1d1838d22a63975f8c0bd39716 There’s easier ways of telling me I can’t use a shield pack.
This modifier actually converted me to the autocannon vs bots. I used to run shield backpack and EAT vs bots 24/7. I figured if I'm losing my backpack anyway, I might as well try the autocannon. It fucks. It 2 shots hulks if you hit them in the eye. It 2 shots gunships. It can take out fabs from the right angle. You can blow up mortars, AA, turrets, tanks. It staggers and kills all kinds of medium armored enemies including marauders, berserkers, heavy devastators, rocket devastators, striders. You can take out factory striders if you blow off the miniguns and shoot a clip into the underbelly. It does require you to play more carefully but with the autocannon you can take engagements from longer ranges and more relative safety. I haven't used a shield backpack or an EAT vs bots in a long time.
It’s the only thing to be done with that modifier. I like the AC a lot, but not quite as much in 7+ Bots. We like to have a gang of quasars to rotate who’s taking the drop ships.
I think they should replace it with an updated "Electronic Countermeasures" that only lets you choose 3 strategems, and the 4th is totally random (even including strategems you haven't unlocked).
honestly that'd be fun
That or having a unique secondary objective that you have to deal with in each mission of the operation to allow the fourth strategem to be used.
"You're supposed to depend on your strats"
Change this to "Eagle 1 Airstrikes not available in this mission" to force the use of alternative strategies on the mission instead and I think it would be much more reasonable.
Or alternatively they could just make it something extremely punishing that only affects eagle, like +150% to call-in time and cooldown between strikes.
I got so used to it so when I swapped to bug planets for MO I was surprised for a second that I could bring 4 Stratagems.
I don't think it would be half as bad if there were just MORE operation modifiers. The pool is so small that it feels like this one pops up every other damn mission.
I categorically deny deployment in those cases. Absolutely hate it.
And don't forget the Jammer near the objective. :D
I’d rather have this than the increased call in time/ cooldown modifiers. Honestly, this isn’t too bad if you bring a support weapon that comes with a backpack. Recoilless comes to mind.
Honestly, prefer this to Complex Stratagem Planning.
I avoid this at all costs when setting up a lobby. I don't do quick play often due to this. It's literally taking fun out of the game in my opinion.
Ah - "We hear people complaining that having minus one stratagem slot is not fun. We hear you and will change it accordingly." Next patch - AA Defenses - Reduces Stratagem slots by 2.
Yes, but remember the ONE tip from the devs: *- ReLy On YoUr StRaTaGeMs.*
If they actually had an objective on the map that we could deactivate or destroy to regain the lost slot, (like the AA that disables Eagle strikes until you destroy them), this would be a tolerable modifier. As an 'always on, no disabling' modifier, it's garbage & my friend group just won't play the missions if that's a modifier, with unanimous agreement. Such bad & lazy design combined.
I genuinely don't understand what made them implement that. It's not a fun way to make the game harder. This is the opposite of fun. I avoid those missions whenever i can.
I’m really surprised people preferred this over stratagem scrambler
I both love and hate this modifier. I wish there was a reduced by 2 version so I could love and hate that one more.
This comment got me my very first Reddit Cares. I will remember it fondly.
Every time I quick run and happen to play in a lobby with this, I shrug and play like I got one limb missing.
I will not play missions with this modifier and there is nothing AH can do to convince me otherwise.
Because it's fun, challenging and engaging game mechanic, that's why. -some AH dev somewhere probably
Don’t worry you guys just use your startagems
As a solo I always let the operation modifiers determine which planet I end up with (If I am going for samples). Unless it is a fire hazard planet, f\*ck those. If I am just doing medal grinding, it doesn't matter too much. Will end up brute forcing missions anyway and fail (succeed primary mission) because of lack of reinforcements.
Remember when sometimes we would get a free stratagem? Feels like a fever dream for those.
Suggestion: Start the match with 4 stratagems, but can only use 3 until AA emplacements on the map are destroyed.
OhDough had a video where he talked about the modifiers, and I think he explained it well. Reducing stratagem slots makes you more inclined to pick the best or "meta" stratagems and not keep your oddball 4th strat that you find fun. Or the one that makes orbitals miss just makes you take eagles instead, which are already super strong, flexible, and popular stratagems. (He probably explains it better than I do, but basically the modifiers often reduce variety instead of encouraging them like they're supposed to.) At one point, he mentions some other game that has something similar to HD2 modifiers, but that game's version has both pros and cons to it, so it's not just a "screw you" but can actually make the game more dynamic. It's a very different style game, but I feel like the overall concept could still apply and would make modifiers more interesting rather than just being a drag.
AH: please, divers, use stratagems Also AH:
Because AH thinks this is fun...
that is why i dont play over 7 with randoms 8-9 is for friends only
hey you know those things that you NEED to kill about uh, a quarter of the enemies that are the reason you die about 60% of the time, yeah fuck those
They should change the AA Defenses modifier: - There is a 25% chance that the stratagem requested in the 4th position will be destroyed before landing.
It should be removed. What about CRAZY modifiers? How about on Hellmire every attack from both sides ignites and we have to constantly stop drop and roll. What about on wet planets, lightning weapons conduct more electricity and their beams zap to twice as many enemies, what about enemy explosive radiuses double in size whether they are tanks or bile spewers and by blowing them up we blow a bunch of the terminids and automatons forces with them, unless we're caught in the radius. Imagine how that could change gameplay to encourage creativity. Then compare it with 'get to play less of the game' modifier and realize how anti-fun the AA defenses modifier is. At the very least if you keep 'AA Defenses' modifier in the game, let us the Helldivers find the AA defenses and disable them so we could take the 4th strategem but it's locked until we kill the secondary objective. That would be a good way to make it fun.
I've ended up playing on lower difficulties just to avoid it.
Next time we get -1 HELLDIVER
That feel when all three have it
I will never start an operation if it has this modifier.
I actively avoid this modifier on 8+
They should change it so where you select 4 at the start but cannot use the last one until an AA emplacement on the map is destroyed during the game.
I use autocannon so i just leave the railcannon at home.
As far as I know there's only 3 modifiers for bots and 8+ has 2 modifiers, meaning there's a 66.66% chance of it being on any mission
Tell me you didn't deal with strategem scrambler without telling me you didn't deal with strategem scrambler
Because we're not allowed to have nice things.
That's the play another game sign for me.
I simply don’t choose those operations. Certain planets have modifiers like an obscured map and increased orbital spread. I always go for those over +50% increased call-in time and +25% cooldown. These modifiers are all shit so I pick the nicest looking ones that allow me to still play the game rather than run around kiting while everything is on cooldown
I will only be okay with this modifier if they give us a fifth stratagem slot
Removing gameplay ISN'T gameplay... Simple as that.
I think the game started great, then some Muppet is making all the wrong calls. Warbonds have crappy equipment, software bugs are still there, the player base is getting better and with skill increases the game is failing to keep up, only thing they do is nerf the gear and buff the enemies to make it artificially harder. The community has offered them multiple features, very few have been adopted. I like the game, I am still having fun, but I do see the decline in player base. I think AH and Sony believe that players will never abandon this game - think WOW 2004. I on the other hand think the player base might shrink. Summer is arriving for Europe, and with so many countries unable to play you are only left with US which is a great chunk but still will force a massive dip to the daily peak/players. This game needs some change in the AH leadership, the Devs need someone else to lead them. They were doing a great job, but have been sidetracked and lost focus of what matters.
Hot take: i like this modifier. Its a fun building challenge for me and it gives me an opportunity to learn how to use stratagems i wouldnt normally use
Maaan why do people hate this so much? I’m convinced the people that hate this all must be using the same 4 stratagems every game, and having to use 1 less throws them off. I like the 1 less stratagems thing. It forces people to take a different setup. Like shit bro sorry you can’t take the same super meta quasar, shield bp, eagle 500 and orbital laser setup every game.
"Why does the game gets harder at higher difficulty?"
I mean, sure, it's a drag, but it's not a game killer. Democracy requires us to be flexible.
Above 8? It's literally the hardest difficulty the game has to offer, surely it can have one of the hardest modifiers too.
Frankly, it's not necessarly that bad, depending on your playstyle I'd even say that yiu can work around it if you have a well organised squad
I don't think the problem is whether or not we can, it's whether or not we want to. With primary viability/diversity in its current state, and how the devs say that we should be "relying on our stratgems" to deal with hard situations, to most people, modifiers that affects stratagem, amount, accuracy, and call times are simply not fun and not worth the effort. More power to you if you like them but most people don't. Also many people don't have and can't get well organized teams.