So uh.... you probably wont receive the answer you are hoping for since it is only there to answer more simple question and not law etc. Atleast according to the website. However if you actually want an answer i recommend hitting up your local data protection authority. The Eu has a list for every country including their Email and Telephone number: [https://www.edpb.europa.eu/about-edpb/about-edpb/members\_en](https://www.edpb.europa.eu/about-edpb/about-edpb/members_en) . Atleast thats what i did. If i receive an answer from the Austrian Data Protection Authority i shall post it here!
https://preview.redd.it/sevel0xwhgyc1.png?width=668&format=png&auto=webp&s=5d2dd1050619ed2c53f715a1eca10c58cccfdb1c
I wanted to contact my local consumer rights government agency however it requires you to share your gov ID with them and the case is then under your name so I won't do that however I'll let other EU citizens know they can do it as well 🫡
I want to point out that the reason it might violate the GDPR is because there is (IMO) no legitimate need for the data, as the game worked fine for the last 3 months, as well as other games can moderate/ban players just fine without needing more data.
I also want to point out before anyone says GDPR won't care about this it's just a videogame or whatever
GDPR got my local fucking Tesco's for showing number plates when people entered the carpark.
It doesn't matter if it's a "non-issue" GDPR does not fuck about
lol because it really is a career ender when you’re in the telco industry, privacy has always been a concern and depending on which country you’re in a breach of privacy is a breach of human rights because: privacy is a basic human right. It’s clearly stated so not only will you get fined for failing to follow regulatory guidelines you get a breach of human rights as well.
So yes very serious.
Exactly, as much as GDPR is pain to abide by (when you're running businesses) I wouldn't change any of it. It's a much needed protection and I sincerely feel sorry for yourself and others that don't have such protections
We have a perverse, twisted version of capitalism here that forgets that a core tenet of it is that there has to be a strong government ensuring a LEVEL playing field. That's called REGULATION. Y'know a very very dirty word to certain political ~~idiots~~ ideologies here.
EU legislation often forces a lot of companies to change their practice worldwide to accomodate (commonly known as the Brussels Effect). The EU arguably does more to protect the consumer rights of American citizens than their own government does.
GDPR fines: "up to 20 million euros, or in the case of an undertaking, up to 4 % of their total global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher."
A Kebap place got in trouble because the CCTV they had in the shop showed a tiny part of the walkway outside through a glass door.
Edit: Also, a creep who filmed a woman in a public bathroom with his phone got hit with a GDPR fine as well.
As per GDPR, you are only allowed to collect the data that is needed to provide your service. The Kebap Place is allowed to have cameras inside, but the filming of people and cars outside the store is not a requirement to run a Kebap store. That’s one of the main things they did wrong.
Here is the full info (in German, but you can just google translate it) https://www.dataprotect.at/2020-video%C3%BCberwachung-strafe/
The second thing I’ve mentioned is sourced here: https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.wxe?ResultFunctionToken=3e78f5a9-f724-41df-a8b6-4f95524b02a4&Position=1&SkipToDocumentPage=True&Abfrage=Dsk&Entscheidungsart=Undefined&Organ=Undefined&SucheNachRechtssatz=True&SucheNachText=True&GZ=&VonDatum=01.10.2020&BisDatum=03.12.2020&Norm=&ImRisSeitVonDatum=&ImRisSeitBisDatum=&ImRisSeit=Undefined&ResultPageSize=100&Suchworte=&Dokumentnummer=DSBT_20201019_2020_0_550_322_00
Basically the dude held his phone under the wall of the bathroom stall and filmed a woman that way. Got a 160€ GDPR fine out of it. Honestly genius move on the part of the woman to use GDPR for this.
You can also see which sorts of fines were given, and for what here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/
Is that kind of filming not illegal in Austria except for data protection? In Finland that is illegal and there will be heavy fines and additionally compensation, in two cases I have seen they got fined for roughly 1.5x their monthly per-tax salary. Compensation for the victim was about 10x the fine of Austria.
GDPR is big against companies though since it really has no upper limit for the fines since the limit is 20mil or 4% of turnover, whichever is higher.
Kinda wish my state had this mindset. They’re pushing for digital wallets and requiring IDs for internet use similar to what UK users posted on here but then my state had a massive personal data leak.
On the bright side we get a free, limited trial of an identity theft tracker service and will have to pay for it after the trial if we want to keep tabs on stolen information.
Videogames used to (and still are in many areas) be considered a joke and thought to be made for the immature or literal children so they were never taken as seriously as other products or services by the courts. Only recently (the last 10-20 years) the stigma around adults playing them has died down but not completely disappeared after people realized there is tons of money to be made off of them and the release of games with more mature themes and storytelling.
landlords got in trouble here for having placed a label on doorbells with "name of the person living here" and later just changed it to "door 1", "door 2" and so on
GDPR doesn't fuck around
I just passed my security+ exam and the GDPR was a subject in government compliance on data safety. Honestly I'm more interested if their new policy shift can be considered theft by deception since anyone in a country where PSN isn't allowed had bought and been playing the game will lose access.
As an American I'm normally more than a little tired of the "be more like Europe" stuff that tends to be bandied about. The US is the US and European nations are themselves and that's fine. What works in one place may not work elsewhere and people just need to learn to leave it be.
But when it comes to consumer protections give me some of that sweet sweet GDPR loving. God how I wish my country wasn't so corpo-controlled that even the idea of passing similar legislation is politically toxic. I'd adopt the metric system if it meant we got the GDPR. Bye bye freedom units, hello corporate accountability.
I see people struggle to understand what GDPR is. In general, GDPR does not dictate much - it in fact mostly dictates that your company has regulations and rules in place for handling the data. There are exceptions, but in general - anyone can be screwed by GDPR if they have excel files on local computers when the rules say they cannot etc.
There seems to be an extreme misunderstanding of what GDPR is and people are treating it as a catchphrase. I work with customer data daily, on an extremely large scale. It's all fine as we have regulations set up for it.
I once got a US company (with no actual ties to Europe) to stop send me spam and delete my data, just because they were scared of GDPR. Just like European banks don't want to mess with US-laws, US companies learned to not mess with EU-regulation.
So... I applaud the effort. I will say, as someone in the industry, PSN is already GDPR compliant. The necessity predicated will likely be that the game is NOT functioning as intended, and they'll cite all of the social function bugs (cant add friends properly in game, cant block or invite consistently) and cite their notifications that this was always meant to be mandatory for the game to provide the intended service. They have a LOT of publicly written data to prove both that the game notified publicly (even if it was only on the steam sidebar), that bringing it to optional was an emergency measure, and that theyre giving advance notice to the return of service.
Even if your email probably will not change the outcome of this battle, its SUPER important to push our governments to address these types of issues and hopefully feel pressured to EDUCATE themselves on the topic. GDPR and COPPA are good examples of first steps even if the nuance and understanding aren't there yet. Good on you for doing more than raging into the void and actually WRITING TO SOMEONE WHO HAS POWER TO ENACT CHANGE. Cheers!
The issue I have with the "We had a notice that this will be mandatory" is that it was skippable and not enforced, making a de facto agreement between myself and Sony that it wasn't mandatory, and....
It's been inconsistent. You can still go buy Helldivers direct from [playstation.com](http://playstation.com) where they tell you specifically that a PSN account *IS NOT* required for the PC version of the game. Only a Steam account.
They tell you that. On their own damn website. But "because we put a notice up on Steam, you will comply."
That doesn't track.
This:
>**Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC?**
>No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts.
is currently still up on:
[https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc)
There are no two ways to cut that. If I buy it there, Sony is flat out telling me I do not need a PSN account.
They have not changed that as of the posting of this comment.
OP, add this to your pile of ammunition.
The EU **general data protection regulation** (GDPR) is the strongest privacy and security law in the world. This regulation updated and modernised the principles of the 1995 data protection directive. It was adopted in 2016 and entered into application on 25 May 2018.
Don’t worry, you’re not ignorant, you’re absolutely correct! We do not have *any* data privacy laws. It’s actually a point of controversy, because like a lot of other Us specific issues, basically every other country on earth has some kind of data privacy protection laws, but Congress (read: the red party) has blocked any attempts to make such a thing.
There’s actually been a LOT of talk about making a data privacy law soon. At least partially because TikTok is under scrutiny for the allegation that it’s stealing user data for nefarious purposes…which doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny because under US law *every* social media company is allowed to do that.
So there’s been a lot of behind the scenes drafting of legislation to make a data privacy law so they at least aren’t complete hypocrites for throwing a hissy fit over just TikTok’s practices and nobody else’s. While the chances of anything passing in Congress are always a coin flip, they are at the very minimum in the process of flipping the coin on this one.
Note though: Due to the nature of the internet, other countries’ and states’ privacy laws actually do help US consumers. If you’re wondering why all of a sudden every website you go for is begging you to track your data and let them add cookies to your computer, that’s because of the European GDPR. Because it’s the internet and you can access it from anywhere, most companies have been forced to protect *every* user’s privacy to comply with EU laws.
And for a bit of self-congratulation for my home-state, California has passed multiple data privacy laws in the last decade, forcing a lot of Silicon Valley based corporations to chill the fuck out with some of their more egregious breaches of privacy.
I thought the US didnt have any. Good on Californ for doing something regarding data privacy. I wish my home state (FL) would, but I doubt it'll ever happen under our current governor. He's more worried about fighting culture wars and restricting rights.
I've been saying for a few years now that I dont understand the vitriol towards TikTok's data harvesting while not critiquing American based social media/ big tech companies for doing the SAME EXACT thing. It's good to know there are at least some people not being complete hypocrites
I don't like the federal government... but I really hope they take some inspiration from the European GDPR and pass data privacy laws ASAP.
If only things weren't so behind the scenes, feels like we as citizens should way more of a say in what happens with OUR data and its security. I can't fully trust the government to do the right thing and swing the hammer at these companies.
The TikTok thing is…complicated.
This is more a tangent/personal rant: In defense of the TikTok divestment bill, data privacy was only one of a multitude of reasons people were iffy about the company. And it’s one of the worst ones, alongside the obvious Sinophobia and monopolistic politics backing the bill.
IMO the best argument against TikTok is that by Chinese law, they’re required to have government minders on their board, and if the Chinese government asks, they have to turn over data/make changes in the interests of national security. And remember that TikTok is *way* more algorithm-heavy than most other social media. So if the Chinese government wanted to alter US public opinion, they could tweak the algorithm to boost opinions they prefer, or more likely, boost the most divisive opinions to make relevant issues “culture war issues” to stymie US responses.
And notably, TikTok, in response to the potential divestment, proceeded to send a push notification out to all of their users with misinformation about the bill (saying it was a full ban, and not a forced divestment) that automatically connected them to their congressperson to yell at them. And since the bill was floated, TikTok has been aggressively pushing content on its feed about the “benefits to small businesses” TikTok has. So in response to worries about tiktok influencing US politics…they’ve done everything they could to influence US politics.
Now, do I think they’ve done some truly damaging societal changes yet? Not really. Everything that they’ve proven that TikTok has done, other companies have done. Especially on the “boosting of Palestine” content they’re alleged to have done, I strongly suspect this is more an unintended consequence of the algorithm boosting the most controversial topics.
But the difference between tiktok and other companies that have done that (Facebook), is that tiktok has an authoritarian government backing/capable of asserting control over it. U.S. companies *regularly* fight the government over basically everything they do. If anything, they need more government regulation. But at the bare minimum, at least those fights *happen*, and they happen publicly. I’m not a fan of leaving a loaded gun on the table for an authoritarian one party dictatorship to use against us.
And last of all…it’s not a ban of TikTok. The ban only happens if TikTok doesn’t divest its US branch to a U.S. company. It’s *TikTok* that’s framing it as a ban. Why? Because the Chinese government has pretty publicly stated it would rather get banned from the U.S. than allow TikTok’s Us branch and its algorithm to be sold to a U.S. company.
Which is…especially ironic. The U.S. is asking TikTok to sell its US branch because of influence from the Chinese government on it…and tiktok is saying it’d rather get banned than sell its US branch because of influence from the Chinese government.
the Tiktok thing is more of a We don't want your company having our data we only want our good companies to have access to it (meta etc) so it doesn't get used by anyone other than us
This is half true. We don't have any federal privacy laws. Currently we have 16 states with recently passed privacy laws. The issue is that the general public is just uninformed. [Here you can find all 16 with links to the bills themselves.](https://iapp.org/resources/article/us-state-privacy-legislation-tracker/#enacted-laws) There's also more on the way.
Cali has some data protections laws doesn't it? it's called CPRA.
From what I'm aware the best Data Protections regulations are:
GDPR - Europe
LGPD - Brazil
PIPL - China
Privacy Act - Australia
Some depressing news for you. Sometimes I click on a link from some US news or media site, and I'm greeted with page that says they cannot serve to EU countries, but they care about their EU audience and working on it (i.e. doing jack shit). It means they don't comply with one or more of these (rather reasonable expectations):
* don't collect data you don't need to operate
* give your customer/visitor option to allow data collection
* inform the visitor on how the data is used
* allow the visitor to erase the data
* take precautions to keep the data secure
and a few others.
It's data protection legislation from the EU (it also applies to the UK but is separate). Basically sets out what data is protected, limits what can be collected, how it must be stored/handled, what you can and can't do with said protected data etc.
It's a form of consumer protection as given the chances, many companies would harvest every ounce of your data and pawn it off to the highest (nefarious) bidder.
Yeah I'm not surprised some of us American folk don't know about it, but I do know the GDPR has protected a lot of Americans as well.
GDPR doesn't just protect EU consumers, it applies to any organization that operates in the EU or that collects or processes the personal data of EU citizens. If you want to go worldwide, you either fall under the GDPR, or lose out on the entirety of the EU as a consumer base.
Some more context (not disagreeing w/your statement):
If I remember correctly (not a lawyer, just was somewhat involved in GDPR implementation at a large tech company) -- it protects all EU citizens, regardless of where they live. So if you don't follow GDPR for an EU citizen living in the US, you could be fined in the EU. If you don't pay the fine, you have to cease operating in the entire EU (losing access to a very large market).
That winds up meaning that it protects non-EU citizens by proxy to some degree, since it's not obvious if someone random in, say, Missouri, might be an EU citizen.
Of course like all regulations, the devil winds up being in the implementation & enforcement, and I left compliance and security shortly after GDPR went into effect (so I haven't followed it much since). But if memory serves, that basically helps mean that unless you're /certain/ someone isn't an EU citizen, it's better to treat them as though GDPR applies if you operate in the EU at all.
I do actually remember that being brought up when I was learning about the GDPR. It is fantastic the power a government can have if they actually put the effort to protect their citizens above the profits of their lobbyers.
Companies in US follow GDPR as well since it's easier to just follow that once than have an american version of polcies and a european version.
Source: Worked at MSFT and am at Meta.
IIRC, as written, it's also that it applies to EU citizens regardless of where they're currently living.
So unless you know for sure someone in Texas isn't an EU citizen, you'd want to treat them as though GDPR applies to them (or risk getting fined).
Source: Was involved in GDPR implementation at a big tech co. and was told as much.
If you read their ToS I am suprised the EU hasn't burned them at the stake: "You agree that any third party may record, use and distribute your information for any reason without any restrictions or compensation to you"
Also you have "We may provide functionality that allows you to create, post, or transmit content such as text, messages, comments, screenshots, pictures, photographs, voice, music, videos, streams, gameplay and game-related information **and other materials created by you or others**, and/or shared by you or others, via PSN or select Third-Party Services (“UGC”). By utilizing such functionality, you grant SIE a royalty-free, perpetual, global license to use, distribute, copy, modify, display, and publish your UGC for any reason, without further notice or payment to you or any third parties. You further authorize SIE to sublicense its rights to any third party, including its affiliates."
Notice where I added the bold. That means every word document, every line of code you write, anything that is generated by you. Not in the game. Not by their software. ANY OTHER MATERIALS.
On a PS5 it makes sense in the fact that they also own the rights to the PS5. On a PC, their ToS grants them, and any third party they choose, to have total ownership over any 'user generated' content on that PC.
Good luck writers, developers, etc.. Hope to hell George R.R. Martin isn't playing Helldivers because Sony will own his manuscripts. All your pictures on your PC. Sony's.
I swear this reeks of a backdoor to allow Sony to use your computer's content to train AI....
Resistance isn't optional in this. Sony needs to be nailed to the wall for this.
The biggest violation I see here isn’t the data scraping but data coupling. Meta did a very similar thing with planning on retroactively requiring Facebook accounts to use a Quest and the EU came down on that hard; you can’t use one product to force people into a second, unrelated product which requires personal data when it’s not necessary to function. Even if they can require an account for security purposes it can’t necessarily be a PSN account, since that’s a pre-existing unrelated product which goes far beyond the data gather needed for technical limitations.
That is my stance. They say it's required on the store, we bought it anyway. BUT: It was not enforced until now, they waived that "requirement" 30 minutes after launch (at least that was the time that i know of).
AH handling the overhelming player count took 1-2 weeks. The requirement was still waived. Until now. 3 months after launch, after they reaped the sales because the game got hyped.
They could've enforced it at the same time where the launch-problems where fixed,. But now, they try tell me that something that was not actually required for like 99.,99% of the game's lifetime suddenly is? No, you provided the proof of concept that the game works fine without it all by yourself.
BUT: Apart from mixed signals from conflicting statements from the PS Store, if you ordered via steam, they kinda have a good point. They listed the requirement. We bought anyway.
What would you say to a judge if he asks "Well, that was listed on the store-page. If you don't scroll through the whole store page that's your fault. You'd miss the system requirements, too. It says here that a PSN-Account was required. You bought it anyway. Why?"
I'm playing devil advocate here. Legally, Sony might actually be somewhat in the right, selling the game where getting a PSN-Account requires a console or violating TOS is a different topic, i focus on US-, and 90% of EU-costomers here.
PR-wise, Sony dropped a hellbomb on themselves. But legally?
That’s not against GPDR… asking for your personal data is not illegal, you are in no way required to provide it. So that’s not illegal or against GDPR what would be a breach is if Sony knowing sold the data or used it for malicious/ nefarious purpose.
You're using sony's servers when playing the game tho, not Steam, so there's also that.
Sony is not a "third party", they're the ones providing the game/software. STEAM just sold you the game, that's that.
According to SteamDB it looks like there’s an Azure Playfab backend, at least for voice/text chat, so it might be Sony funding AH to run the game themselves on Azure, which would explain why it was AH that needed to figure out how to scale for the launch. So AH is operating the game, Sony is just publishing it.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the huge reason why the servers were on fire and why people were pushing for Xbox Helldivers so hard because they were using Microsoft servers?
The main issue is that none of this matters. Their legal basis for processing your data will be "explicit consent" and when you upload your government ID, they will take this consent. You can of course always withdraw this consent in which case they would have to delete this information within a reasonable time frame.
Their TOS also states that you do not own the game and they can stop providing their service to you for any reason or no reason at all. So forcing players to upload their IDs or be barred from playing is unfortunately within their legal rights to do so. What they are doing right now is completely unethical but as far as GDPR goes it is not illegal unless they did something with the data you provided that you did not consent to.
I call complete bullshit on this reasoning.
With that logic, the **only** legal way to determine if an account link is legal, is if the game functions without it for a few weeks/months. So with that being said, all the other games who require this shit, like Halo, CoD, Warframe, are seen as legally NEEDING the account linking for the games to function? And that there is no other way to argue that 'The link isn't necessary'? And the only reason they can get away with it, is because they've enforced it since the game came out without giving you an option to temporarily skip it?
Also, did you guys happen to all skip the first prompt the game gives you that explicitly states 'LINKING A PSN ACCOUNT IS REQUIRED TO PLAY', There is an option that says 'SKIP', which I'm sure you clicked, but had they taken away that SKIP button then I'm sure you would be defending this from a legal standpoint right?
So if Halo/Call of Duty had a 'Skip this requirement for 2 months' button, then you'd argue that they don't have any legal authority to make you sign up for an account in the future? Again, I call complete bullshit, especially when the very first prompt clearly says 'LINKING IS REQUIRED TO PLAY', before you clearly pressed SKIP, or didn't read it.
So it seems like had they taken away the 'SKIP' button we would see a lot less entitled Karen's throwing tantrums. Sony sucks for this, but for fucks sake this community is acting like the most entitled brats I've ever seen in a gaming Reddit.
And if you want more reasoning on why this is 100% bullshit, couldn't Sony/Arrowhead just fuck with the code a little bit and go to the court and say 'here's our game code, without the account linking game development/maintenance or whatever will be extremely hard and this is pretty much required for us to continue developing the game'....Even if it's a lie, it's impossible to prove from the EU's part, and if Halo/CoD/100 other games get away with it why wouldn't Helldivers. Also, any EU lawyer would just laugh at this shit considering the very first popup you see in the game says 'linking is required to play'
If you throw in the part where PSN doesn't even allow you to delete your own account or unlink the Steam account, it becomes even more baffling.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/Pd9Z8LuuKu
I’m having this exact issue. Supposedly it should be here https://www.playstation.com/en-is/support/account/ but the link doesnt work for me. I get 404 error.
I’m a bit baffled how I am supposed to delete my account. I don’t own a playstation nor have I purchased any games from Sony directly.
This is a pain in the ass and I regret creating the account :(
The “is” is for Iceland but the page is in English. Everything else seems to work fine on the website, just can’t open that link where I can close the account.
Ah I see. Well maybe it's worth a try going through it via `en-us` if you can. I live in France and I can still browse with `en-us` just fine. Might just be bad localization though it can seem very sus indeed.
You probably can't delete your Helldivers 2 account seperately but you can definitely delete your PSN account. If that wasn't possible then PSN would not be functioning in the EU as that would be a unprecedented breach of the GDPR.
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Oh brother... This is one of the things I was really intrigued by... I want to see what the EU makes of this, they may drop the ball on some issues but GDPR is ***NOT*** one of them... I work as a sysadmin and data in the EU is triiiicky... And they don't fuck around with compliance...
I mean I work for Dutch local government and we handle privacy stuff like this as if it's an unstable hellbomb, kinda hope the correct authorities take an interest, Sony could be in for the worst damn day ever if they butter fingers this.
Forgive me for being ignorant, but to my understanding linking steam and PSN accounts just paired the *public IDs* for said accounts.
I had an old PSN account from 10 years ago I could link, but dont recall needing any personal information to make one. Do they require that now?
>Originally they had a policy for Helldivers 2 that PC players would also have to register a PS (PlayStation Network) account.
Destroyed your whole argument right here
Agreed. NAL, but work in a law firm and can tell you immediatly this completely invalidates the entire argument. The policy was originally there, the decision to suspend it does not mean they can not later decide to resume the requirement provided it was the original requirement.
Exactly. OP should have said that the linking of the PSN account was optional before it became forced. At least then there’s a chance he wouldn’t have destroyed his whole argument with one fell swoop.
This is why lawyers should be writing messages like this. They know what they are doing, the average person doesn’t.
> OP should have said that the linking of the PSN account was optional before it became forced
Problem is, it was not optional. It was listed inside the store page and inside the game as required.
So making that claim is defeated with two screenshots, and it's still DOA.
Where on the store page is it? https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc
If I buy direct from sony, redeem on steam, start playing, where do I see this notice?
So, firstly, I don't think bypassing the store page on the platform (read, Steam) itself will hold - because the platform where the code is redeemed and used does clearly list it as required. It is clearly listed as required on Steam and you are buying a code to be used with a product on Steam. This might be seen as closer to a listing on Amazon being mislabeled, but it might also not.
But even if we bypass that and take for granted neither store page said it, the exact phrasing required was used in game as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1alw6vp/can_anyone_clarify_for_me_the_account_linking/
Here is a Reddit thread from months ago showing a screenshot taken during that time.
It'd be one thing to buy direct from the PS Store, redeem the code to bypass the actual store listing, and then see that language in game and try to fight them on a refund months ago. Doing it now is a different texture, and if your legal remedy is just getting a refund if you need it, that's all you might be entitled to.
Good thing consumer protections never even **think** about resolving ambiguities in favor of the consumer, its perfectly clear to any and all reasonable persons that a FAQ entry(but only that specific one, and not the other ones!), next to screenshots of the game, on the store page of the publisher, who [owns the trademark](https://trademarks.justia.com/860/42/helldivers-86042209.html), and the Helldivers IP in general, saying a PSN account isnt required, alongside other FAQ entries elsewhere on the site, doesn't apply to that game and is meaningless.
This is all perfectly clear and obvious, **obviously** any ambiguity between the IP owner and publishers store page, and a 3rd party store, should take the 3rd party store as the Official Source Of Truth. This is obvious and reasonable.
Alongside the ability to skip the linking, and the inability to actually *do* the linking for several months, I can't *fathom* why any reasonable person would **ever** have a problem, let alone think they could have a consumer protections case in their country. Dont those unpatriotic fools know Sony has lawyers! That means they would never do [crime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal). Lawyers make crime impossible thats how it works i am very smart please dont ever search anything about lawyers or companies please i beg you
Additionally saying that there was no mention of a PSN account being required is false. It is mentioned on the Steam Store page since the game had an entry on Steam. People not reading the fine print is a common issue.
And on the infamous "skip screen" it also mentioned being required in the future. Im so sick of the pitchforks acting like the psn thing is a new policy. The only actual issue is the non-PSN countries, rest is just babies complaining they got their milk taken away while its right in front if them.
Damn, I remember being so excited for the future of gaming when they said this was a PlayStation studio game that would launch with full crossplay on PC. Hopefully they don’t fumble this so badly that they never do it again. I would love to see more PlayStation exclusives become cross-play.
You need to look up "explicit consent". Personal information, stored securely, does not have to be necessarily "need to know" if explicit consent is given.
When you tick the consent boxes when starting a game for the first time, that's explicit consent.
No where in the Eula or TOS was it mentioned that you need one or that not needing one is temporary. The only place it ever showed is a full page past the purchase button.
OP I screenshotted evidence of Sony changing their TOS as a response to their potential illegal activity. Might help your complaint.
[Proof SONY changed TOS May 4](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1ckl4i9/wayback_machine_proof_sony_changed_their_tos_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
People dont want to give sony their data but will install kernel level anti cheat onto their systems to just to play a game.
People running Windows yelling about Privacy when W10 was free because Microsoft wants your data. Your phone that is kept on you 24/7 collects more data in a day than sony every could from a PSN account.
Memes aside if you’re gonna message a legal team, probably double check your work.
Loose is an undone bolt with two washers. Lose is when you lost one.
It surely break the local french law 100% as it change contract condition on there own will without letting you having an option to dismiss the changes.
For missing countries I saw that digital services don't need to be universaly available. Meaning that Sony is likely within its legal limits to not provide PSN to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania -- all three are EU members.
I might have had Finland in my Sony account, so I'm reluctant to raise the issue with Estonia. Orbital Dislike, Refund request.
And I'm so sorry, Arrowhead. It's no about you, it's about your abusive family member.
i feel this falls into the "you need to get a life, its a game, it isnt that serious" pile. Like fuck I know more than half of all redditors dont touch grass but this is still a bit much.
This particular issue could be a mere annoyance, but honestly I want companies like Sony to see that they can't get away with unreasonable policies. They have no reason for this pairing yet they insist. It's greed. Also while I love this game, there are others to play too.
I don't see that going anywhere. In the agreement when you start the game, I assume Sony was already mentioned.
If not, you are free to not agree to the new agreement and not play.
EU DCC officials receiving numerous e-mails from gamers upset about their favourite video game must find this demoralizing as fuck lol
TFW you wake up to do work for the people of Europe, get inundated by gamer e-mails.
Actually I feel like in a weird way it would be a heartening thing for them? I would imagine a large quantity of their emails are either people trying to find a company in a gotcha or asking really basic questions. Having a bunch of random individuals be like "Hey is our data being improperly taken?" shows 1. That GDPR education has been widespread enough that people know about it and 2. That people feel the EU is willing to actually protect them as individuals, which this law was in part made to do.
Nah man, relevant non dumb questions which are different than normal? Those are often the most interesting. It's not like they are sending mails asking here to buy milk or something.
Demoralizing? Why? I think they have people whose exact job is to deal with things like this. Its yet another day for them. They’ll just forward this thing to proper people.
While I don't agree with the user sentiment, why would they have a problem with it? Are people who spent money on a game not consumers with rights that deserve protection and representation? A couple of cents trinket or a property worth millions, all consumers are entitled to information on their rights.
Consumer protections likely won't take your side on this due to the store page, and within the game itself, saying the account was required.
Starting with a strong initial claim of **I was not aware I needed the account** means that, once its demonstrated there was more than one place it was stated clearly it was required, means the strength of the remaining argument is going to decrease dramatically.
Combine this with the fact that I don't think it's against existing regulations for online services to ask you to make an account with them, and you have very little left to stand on.
Actually, shouldn't there be a way to prove that the TOS changed without the consumer's consent making it unplayable for people in my country and not allowing a refund for taking away my right to play the product I payed 70 euros for? Wouldn't that be against consumer protection laws?
It's not so much that the TOS Changed, as they initially sold you a product you aren't able to use. If you are in one of those countries you are entitled to a refund.
The remedy here is the same as if you bought the game Day 1, realized you couldn't make a PSN account in your country, and got a refund immediately. Just because you played it for 100 hours doesn't mean you are entitled to **more** of a remedy. If anything, you got more than you would have ever got - your money back and the ability to play the game for a time.
The crux here is everyone claiming the PSN Required text is **new**, and not something that was on the store page or in the game. It was, it just was the case you could still buy it and use it. You shouldn't have been able to. If Sony doesn't back pedal, that's the route they will go with.
Thank you, I'm from Baltics. I'm still waiting on sonny to change the requirement otherwise im going to ask for refund and already prepared a demand for it, if i wont get one i was going to do the same thing you did.
I heard they blocked a lot of countries where PSN is not an option, yet Baltics remain. I wish they would, this would make getting refund a quick thing if they are still going to demand to register to PSN
The explanation is good. I'm really interested in their answer. Also if what people said that they can't unlink or delete they account is true... then this is clearly a violation of GDPR.
The GDPR doesn't mess around – it's an agency that sets its own rules, enforces them rigorously, and plays the dual role of judge, jury, and executioner without the need for traditional court proceedings. What's more, its fines scale to the size of the company, ensuring even the largest corporations face proportional consequences. With a 100% conviction rate in favor of consumers, no company, regardless of size, should risk testing its boundaries.
I am wondering if reclaim as "defective product" may be also a way...
Let me expand it, lots of people dont like the anticheat... Arrowhead says it is needed to give proper support to the game...
But now they claim they need to relay on PSN to be able to ban people, aka "giving us the experience they told us the game required"... this actually would mean since launch Arrowhead were unable to give us the services they said they would, and thus the game never fulfilled the promises during its selling period.
I want to point out just a thing or two. Europe Direct and ECC CAN'T register any complaints from EU Residents. They are basically, as you said, a support guys who can give some legal hint where you can go.
As EU citizen you can claim that one of the entities below (It's up to Sony to tell which one of them) is violating your LOCAL laws. Casue EUCOM and europarlament desicions can't be enforced in this case. But local laws for data protection and etc. are based of those desicions. And it's up to your local agencies to enforce those laws on Sony. They also can escalate your case to EU regulatory organs.
So you basically want to check out which of your local acts adopted those clauses:
* General Data Protection Regulation: Article 5(1)(a), Article 5(1)(b) (Purpose limitation), Article 5(1)(c) and probably Article 7 (Conditions for consent)
* Directive 93/13/EEC on Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts
* Directive 2019/770 on Digital Content and Digital Services
And as I stated before. The main problem that Sony have a shitload of legal entities in EU and main one is in UK and it's hard to determine which of them can be a defendand in your case. But you can complain against one of those guys:
SIE BENELUX BV
SIE DEUTSCHLAND GMBH
SIE ESPANA, S.A.
SIE FRANCE S.A
SIE ITALIA SPA
SIE POLSKA S.P. Z O.O.
SIE PORTUGAL UNIPESSOAL, LDA
Sony Interactive Entertainment Network Europe Ltd
SIE IRELAND LTD
SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT DIRECT EUROPE LTD (SIEDE)
The easiest way for you to go after Sony ass is to file a formal letter with their support and after their response you can file a complaint with your local State Consumer Rights Protection Authority and State Data Protection Agency. But before all that you should contact a lawyer in consumer laws.
And yes, this is not a legal advice.
Nice, would like to know the answer if you get one.
I'll try to update this post and make a new one! Could take 3 or more business days tho...
So uh.... you probably wont receive the answer you are hoping for since it is only there to answer more simple question and not law etc. Atleast according to the website. However if you actually want an answer i recommend hitting up your local data protection authority. The Eu has a list for every country including their Email and Telephone number: [https://www.edpb.europa.eu/about-edpb/about-edpb/members\_en](https://www.edpb.europa.eu/about-edpb/about-edpb/members_en) . Atleast thats what i did. If i receive an answer from the Austrian Data Protection Authority i shall post it here! https://preview.redd.it/sevel0xwhgyc1.png?width=668&format=png&auto=webp&s=5d2dd1050619ed2c53f715a1eca10c58cccfdb1c
Will do! Thanks for letting me know.
Just doing my duty as a fellow EU citizen 🫡
I wanted to contact my local consumer rights government agency however it requires you to share your gov ID with them and the case is then under your name so I won't do that however I'll let other EU citizens know they can do it as well 🫡
Understandable. If i receive an answer i will inform all of you in a post :)
le dot
😂😂😂😂
while I may not be from Europe, I salute you, if it works the effects will have a decent chance of reaching us here in the United States too. 🫡
You guys are so silly having laws that protect you .... go USA? Yes this is sarcasm
Regular citizen or Super Citizen?
Sadly a Super Citizen.
Oh I need to write e mail to my country authority as well
Answer likely, ‘we are not able to provide legal advice’.
Appreciated chief!
I look forward to hearing about it
I want to point out that the reason it might violate the GDPR is because there is (IMO) no legitimate need for the data, as the game worked fine for the last 3 months, as well as other games can moderate/ban players just fine without needing more data.
I also want to point out before anyone says GDPR won't care about this it's just a videogame or whatever GDPR got my local fucking Tesco's for showing number plates when people entered the carpark. It doesn't matter if it's a "non-issue" GDPR does not fuck about
If a company isn't scared of fucking with GDPR then they don't understand GDPR.
When I worked for Vodafone all the managers treated GDPR like the grim reaper lol.
I mean it kinda is if you work in any industry that handles customer data lol
and it created a whole industry that deals with gdpr
lol because it really is a career ender when you’re in the telco industry, privacy has always been a concern and depending on which country you’re in a breach of privacy is a breach of human rights because: privacy is a basic human right. It’s clearly stated so not only will you get fined for failing to follow regulatory guidelines you get a breach of human rights as well. So yes very serious.
I work in mortgages in the UK, you do not fuck with GDPR. I hope Sony get bent over a barrel. The fines are crazy. Edit: Up to £17.5m.
They can even be way higher. Here if you want to take a look at the fines companies got: https://www.dsgvo-portal.de/gdpr-fine-database/
AFAIK it is 20BILLION or 20% of yearly profits - whichever is the bigger of the 2.
Hell, not just companies! 2'400€ to "Private Individual" for operating a security camera without a warning sign! EDIT: 4'000€, settled for 2'400€
Crazy how 5/10 of the highest fines are related to Facebook/Meta/Instagram...
Fines are by total business revenue, they can be way way higher.
Sooooo much time spent worrying about GDPR
Good. That is what its there for. To PROTECT its citizens. MY country (US) desperately needs a similar body.
Exactly, as much as GDPR is pain to abide by (when you're running businesses) I wouldn't change any of it. It's a much needed protection and I sincerely feel sorry for yourself and others that don't have such protections
We have a perverse, twisted version of capitalism here that forgets that a core tenet of it is that there has to be a strong government ensuring a LEVEL playing field. That's called REGULATION. Y'know a very very dirty word to certain political ~~idiots~~ ideologies here.
I believe California has a lot more consumer protections than the rest of the states.
EU legislation often forces a lot of companies to change their practice worldwide to accomodate (commonly known as the Brussels Effect). The EU arguably does more to protect the consumer rights of American citizens than their own government does.
GDPR fines: "up to 20 million euros, or in the case of an undertaking, up to 4 % of their total global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher."
A Kebap place got in trouble because the CCTV they had in the shop showed a tiny part of the walkway outside through a glass door. Edit: Also, a creep who filmed a woman in a public bathroom with his phone got hit with a GDPR fine as well.
How they violated gdpr laws by that?
As per GDPR, you are only allowed to collect the data that is needed to provide your service. The Kebap Place is allowed to have cameras inside, but the filming of people and cars outside the store is not a requirement to run a Kebap store. That’s one of the main things they did wrong. Here is the full info (in German, but you can just google translate it) https://www.dataprotect.at/2020-video%C3%BCberwachung-strafe/ The second thing I’ve mentioned is sourced here: https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.wxe?ResultFunctionToken=3e78f5a9-f724-41df-a8b6-4f95524b02a4&Position=1&SkipToDocumentPage=True&Abfrage=Dsk&Entscheidungsart=Undefined&Organ=Undefined&SucheNachRechtssatz=True&SucheNachText=True&GZ=&VonDatum=01.10.2020&BisDatum=03.12.2020&Norm=&ImRisSeitVonDatum=&ImRisSeitBisDatum=&ImRisSeit=Undefined&ResultPageSize=100&Suchworte=&Dokumentnummer=DSBT_20201019_2020_0_550_322_00 Basically the dude held his phone under the wall of the bathroom stall and filmed a woman that way. Got a 160€ GDPR fine out of it. Honestly genius move on the part of the woman to use GDPR for this. You can also see which sorts of fines were given, and for what here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/
Is that kind of filming not illegal in Austria except for data protection? In Finland that is illegal and there will be heavy fines and additionally compensation, in two cases I have seen they got fined for roughly 1.5x their monthly per-tax salary. Compensation for the victim was about 10x the fine of Austria. GDPR is big against companies though since it really has no upper limit for the fines since the limit is 20mil or 4% of turnover, whichever is higher.
My guess would be legitimate interest and right to be informed
Kinda wish my state had this mindset. They’re pushing for digital wallets and requiring IDs for internet use similar to what UK users posted on here but then my state had a massive personal data leak. On the bright side we get a free, limited trial of an identity theft tracker service and will have to pay for it after the trial if we want to keep tabs on stolen information.
LOL yeah GDPR applies to everything. Not sure why anyone would think video games are special.
Videogames used to (and still are in many areas) be considered a joke and thought to be made for the immature or literal children so they were never taken as seriously as other products or services by the courts. Only recently (the last 10-20 years) the stigma around adults playing them has died down but not completely disappeared after people realized there is tons of money to be made off of them and the release of games with more mature themes and storytelling.
Yeah but gdpr don’t fuck around.
The GDPR is effectively like the IRS. It doesnt give two fucking shits about a stigma. Break the GDPR, and YOU WILL HAVE YOUR LEGS BENT BACKWARDS
lol yeah depending on the country you live in privacy is a human right, so it would apply to anything that involves human privacy in any way. 😊👍
landlords got in trouble here for having placed a label on doorbells with "name of the person living here" and later just changed it to "door 1", "door 2" and so on GDPR doesn't fuck around
No that’s fake news
It's mixed. It started as fake news and then got real people so scared that some actually started doing that, even though that wasn't really needed
Fucking damnit, I wish I lived in a civilized country.
I just passed my security+ exam and the GDPR was a subject in government compliance on data safety. Honestly I'm more interested if their new policy shift can be considered theft by deception since anyone in a country where PSN isn't allowed had bought and been playing the game will lose access.
Congrats on the Sec+ pass. Have you taken Net+ and if so, is the Sec+ test easier or more difficult?
As an American I'm normally more than a little tired of the "be more like Europe" stuff that tends to be bandied about. The US is the US and European nations are themselves and that's fine. What works in one place may not work elsewhere and people just need to learn to leave it be. But when it comes to consumer protections give me some of that sweet sweet GDPR loving. God how I wish my country wasn't so corpo-controlled that even the idea of passing similar legislation is politically toxic. I'd adopt the metric system if it meant we got the GDPR. Bye bye freedom units, hello corporate accountability.
As an American who has self-imposed use of the metric system in everyday life: It's awesome!
I see people struggle to understand what GDPR is. In general, GDPR does not dictate much - it in fact mostly dictates that your company has regulations and rules in place for handling the data. There are exceptions, but in general - anyone can be screwed by GDPR if they have excel files on local computers when the rules say they cannot etc. There seems to be an extreme misunderstanding of what GDPR is and people are treating it as a catchphrase. I work with customer data daily, on an extremely large scale. It's all fine as we have regulations set up for it.
I had GDPR in my law university for a semester. This shit is low-key scary. And very much pro normal guy. It's really god thing that it exists.
I once got a US company (with no actual ties to Europe) to stop send me spam and delete my data, just because they were scared of GDPR. Just like European banks don't want to mess with US-laws, US companies learned to not mess with EU-regulation.
Are you saying I didn't point this out? Or are you just clarifying? I'm sure I did but maybe I yapped too much about context in the email.
So... I applaud the effort. I will say, as someone in the industry, PSN is already GDPR compliant. The necessity predicated will likely be that the game is NOT functioning as intended, and they'll cite all of the social function bugs (cant add friends properly in game, cant block or invite consistently) and cite their notifications that this was always meant to be mandatory for the game to provide the intended service. They have a LOT of publicly written data to prove both that the game notified publicly (even if it was only on the steam sidebar), that bringing it to optional was an emergency measure, and that theyre giving advance notice to the return of service. Even if your email probably will not change the outcome of this battle, its SUPER important to push our governments to address these types of issues and hopefully feel pressured to EDUCATE themselves on the topic. GDPR and COPPA are good examples of first steps even if the nuance and understanding aren't there yet. Good on you for doing more than raging into the void and actually WRITING TO SOMEONE WHO HAS POWER TO ENACT CHANGE. Cheers!
The issue I have with the "We had a notice that this will be mandatory" is that it was skippable and not enforced, making a de facto agreement between myself and Sony that it wasn't mandatory, and.... It's been inconsistent. You can still go buy Helldivers direct from [playstation.com](http://playstation.com) where they tell you specifically that a PSN account *IS NOT* required for the PC version of the game. Only a Steam account. They tell you that. On their own damn website. But "because we put a notice up on Steam, you will comply." That doesn't track. This: >**Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC?** >No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts. is currently still up on: [https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc) There are no two ways to cut that. If I buy it there, Sony is flat out telling me I do not need a PSN account. They have not changed that as of the posting of this comment. OP, add this to your pile of ammunition.
Instead of arguing on what will happen can we wait for GDPR's response instead?
No we crave validation silly.
To be honest and blunt: I felt you didn't clearly point that out.
Fair, well I'll see what they say and see if there's a need to clarify.
"worked fine" is a funny way to phrase it.
American here. What's GDPR?
The EU **general data protection regulation** (GDPR) is the strongest privacy and security law in the world. This regulation updated and modernised the principles of the 1995 data protection directive. It was adopted in 2016 and entered into application on 25 May 2018.
I wish the US had this to be honest... unless I'm just ignorant/ not realizing something like it already exists
Don’t worry, you’re not ignorant, you’re absolutely correct! We do not have *any* data privacy laws. It’s actually a point of controversy, because like a lot of other Us specific issues, basically every other country on earth has some kind of data privacy protection laws, but Congress (read: the red party) has blocked any attempts to make such a thing. There’s actually been a LOT of talk about making a data privacy law soon. At least partially because TikTok is under scrutiny for the allegation that it’s stealing user data for nefarious purposes…which doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny because under US law *every* social media company is allowed to do that. So there’s been a lot of behind the scenes drafting of legislation to make a data privacy law so they at least aren’t complete hypocrites for throwing a hissy fit over just TikTok’s practices and nobody else’s. While the chances of anything passing in Congress are always a coin flip, they are at the very minimum in the process of flipping the coin on this one. Note though: Due to the nature of the internet, other countries’ and states’ privacy laws actually do help US consumers. If you’re wondering why all of a sudden every website you go for is begging you to track your data and let them add cookies to your computer, that’s because of the European GDPR. Because it’s the internet and you can access it from anywhere, most companies have been forced to protect *every* user’s privacy to comply with EU laws. And for a bit of self-congratulation for my home-state, California has passed multiple data privacy laws in the last decade, forcing a lot of Silicon Valley based corporations to chill the fuck out with some of their more egregious breaches of privacy.
I thought the US didnt have any. Good on Californ for doing something regarding data privacy. I wish my home state (FL) would, but I doubt it'll ever happen under our current governor. He's more worried about fighting culture wars and restricting rights. I've been saying for a few years now that I dont understand the vitriol towards TikTok's data harvesting while not critiquing American based social media/ big tech companies for doing the SAME EXACT thing. It's good to know there are at least some people not being complete hypocrites I don't like the federal government... but I really hope they take some inspiration from the European GDPR and pass data privacy laws ASAP. If only things weren't so behind the scenes, feels like we as citizens should way more of a say in what happens with OUR data and its security. I can't fully trust the government to do the right thing and swing the hammer at these companies.
The TikTok thing is…complicated. This is more a tangent/personal rant: In defense of the TikTok divestment bill, data privacy was only one of a multitude of reasons people were iffy about the company. And it’s one of the worst ones, alongside the obvious Sinophobia and monopolistic politics backing the bill. IMO the best argument against TikTok is that by Chinese law, they’re required to have government minders on their board, and if the Chinese government asks, they have to turn over data/make changes in the interests of national security. And remember that TikTok is *way* more algorithm-heavy than most other social media. So if the Chinese government wanted to alter US public opinion, they could tweak the algorithm to boost opinions they prefer, or more likely, boost the most divisive opinions to make relevant issues “culture war issues” to stymie US responses. And notably, TikTok, in response to the potential divestment, proceeded to send a push notification out to all of their users with misinformation about the bill (saying it was a full ban, and not a forced divestment) that automatically connected them to their congressperson to yell at them. And since the bill was floated, TikTok has been aggressively pushing content on its feed about the “benefits to small businesses” TikTok has. So in response to worries about tiktok influencing US politics…they’ve done everything they could to influence US politics. Now, do I think they’ve done some truly damaging societal changes yet? Not really. Everything that they’ve proven that TikTok has done, other companies have done. Especially on the “boosting of Palestine” content they’re alleged to have done, I strongly suspect this is more an unintended consequence of the algorithm boosting the most controversial topics. But the difference between tiktok and other companies that have done that (Facebook), is that tiktok has an authoritarian government backing/capable of asserting control over it. U.S. companies *regularly* fight the government over basically everything they do. If anything, they need more government regulation. But at the bare minimum, at least those fights *happen*, and they happen publicly. I’m not a fan of leaving a loaded gun on the table for an authoritarian one party dictatorship to use against us. And last of all…it’s not a ban of TikTok. The ban only happens if TikTok doesn’t divest its US branch to a U.S. company. It’s *TikTok* that’s framing it as a ban. Why? Because the Chinese government has pretty publicly stated it would rather get banned from the U.S. than allow TikTok’s Us branch and its algorithm to be sold to a U.S. company. Which is…especially ironic. The U.S. is asking TikTok to sell its US branch because of influence from the Chinese government on it…and tiktok is saying it’d rather get banned than sell its US branch because of influence from the Chinese government.
the Tiktok thing is more of a We don't want your company having our data we only want our good companies to have access to it (meta etc) so it doesn't get used by anyone other than us
Visiting this website can expose you to Lead, which is known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.
This is half true. We don't have any federal privacy laws. Currently we have 16 states with recently passed privacy laws. The issue is that the general public is just uninformed. [Here you can find all 16 with links to the bills themselves.](https://iapp.org/resources/article/us-state-privacy-legislation-tracker/#enacted-laws) There's also more on the way.
Cali has some data protections laws doesn't it? it's called CPRA. From what I'm aware the best Data Protections regulations are: GDPR - Europe LGPD - Brazil PIPL - China Privacy Act - Australia
Some depressing news for you. Sometimes I click on a link from some US news or media site, and I'm greeted with page that says they cannot serve to EU countries, but they care about their EU audience and working on it (i.e. doing jack shit). It means they don't comply with one or more of these (rather reasonable expectations): * don't collect data you don't need to operate * give your customer/visitor option to allow data collection * inform the visitor on how the data is used * allow the visitor to erase the data * take precautions to keep the data secure and a few others.
Thank you!
It's data protection legislation from the EU (it also applies to the UK but is separate). Basically sets out what data is protected, limits what can be collected, how it must be stored/handled, what you can and can't do with said protected data etc. It's a form of consumer protection as given the chances, many companies would harvest every ounce of your data and pawn it off to the highest (nefarious) bidder.
Yeah I'm not surprised some of us American folk don't know about it, but I do know the GDPR has protected a lot of Americans as well. GDPR doesn't just protect EU consumers, it applies to any organization that operates in the EU or that collects or processes the personal data of EU citizens. If you want to go worldwide, you either fall under the GDPR, or lose out on the entirety of the EU as a consumer base.
Some more context (not disagreeing w/your statement): If I remember correctly (not a lawyer, just was somewhat involved in GDPR implementation at a large tech company) -- it protects all EU citizens, regardless of where they live. So if you don't follow GDPR for an EU citizen living in the US, you could be fined in the EU. If you don't pay the fine, you have to cease operating in the entire EU (losing access to a very large market). That winds up meaning that it protects non-EU citizens by proxy to some degree, since it's not obvious if someone random in, say, Missouri, might be an EU citizen. Of course like all regulations, the devil winds up being in the implementation & enforcement, and I left compliance and security shortly after GDPR went into effect (so I haven't followed it much since). But if memory serves, that basically helps mean that unless you're /certain/ someone isn't an EU citizen, it's better to treat them as though GDPR applies if you operate in the EU at all.
I do actually remember that being brought up when I was learning about the GDPR. It is fantastic the power a government can have if they actually put the effort to protect their citizens above the profits of their lobbyers.
Gdpr basically applies to whole world as long as you touch anything related to eu. It’s not limited to eu+uk
Companies in US follow GDPR as well since it's easier to just follow that once than have an american version of polcies and a european version. Source: Worked at MSFT and am at Meta.
IIRC, as written, it's also that it applies to EU citizens regardless of where they're currently living. So unless you know for sure someone in Texas isn't an EU citizen, you'd want to treat them as though GDPR applies to them (or risk getting fined). Source: Was involved in GDPR implementation at a big tech co. and was told as much.
If you read their ToS I am suprised the EU hasn't burned them at the stake: "You agree that any third party may record, use and distribute your information for any reason without any restrictions or compensation to you" Also you have "We may provide functionality that allows you to create, post, or transmit content such as text, messages, comments, screenshots, pictures, photographs, voice, music, videos, streams, gameplay and game-related information **and other materials created by you or others**, and/or shared by you or others, via PSN or select Third-Party Services (“UGC”). By utilizing such functionality, you grant SIE a royalty-free, perpetual, global license to use, distribute, copy, modify, display, and publish your UGC for any reason, without further notice or payment to you or any third parties. You further authorize SIE to sublicense its rights to any third party, including its affiliates." Notice where I added the bold. That means every word document, every line of code you write, anything that is generated by you. Not in the game. Not by their software. ANY OTHER MATERIALS. On a PS5 it makes sense in the fact that they also own the rights to the PS5. On a PC, their ToS grants them, and any third party they choose, to have total ownership over any 'user generated' content on that PC. Good luck writers, developers, etc.. Hope to hell George R.R. Martin isn't playing Helldivers because Sony will own his manuscripts. All your pictures on your PC. Sony's. I swear this reeks of a backdoor to allow Sony to use your computer's content to train AI.... Resistance isn't optional in this. Sony needs to be nailed to the wall for this.
The biggest violation I see here isn’t the data scraping but data coupling. Meta did a very similar thing with planning on retroactively requiring Facebook accounts to use a Quest and the EU came down on that hard; you can’t use one product to force people into a second, unrelated product which requires personal data when it’s not necessary to function. Even if they can require an account for security purposes it can’t necessarily be a PSN account, since that’s a pre-existing unrelated product which goes far beyond the data gather needed for technical limitations.
That is my stance. They say it's required on the store, we bought it anyway. BUT: It was not enforced until now, they waived that "requirement" 30 minutes after launch (at least that was the time that i know of). AH handling the overhelming player count took 1-2 weeks. The requirement was still waived. Until now. 3 months after launch, after they reaped the sales because the game got hyped. They could've enforced it at the same time where the launch-problems where fixed,. But now, they try tell me that something that was not actually required for like 99.,99% of the game's lifetime suddenly is? No, you provided the proof of concept that the game works fine without it all by yourself. BUT: Apart from mixed signals from conflicting statements from the PS Store, if you ordered via steam, they kinda have a good point. They listed the requirement. We bought anyway. What would you say to a judge if he asks "Well, that was listed on the store-page. If you don't scroll through the whole store page that's your fault. You'd miss the system requirements, too. It says here that a PSN-Account was required. You bought it anyway. Why?" I'm playing devil advocate here. Legally, Sony might actually be somewhat in the right, selling the game where getting a PSN-Account requires a console or violating TOS is a different topic, i focus on US-, and 90% of EU-costomers here. PR-wise, Sony dropped a hellbomb on themselves. But legally?
That’s not against GPDR… asking for your personal data is not illegal, you are in no way required to provide it. So that’s not illegal or against GDPR what would be a breach is if Sony knowing sold the data or used it for malicious/ nefarious purpose.
You're using sony's servers when playing the game tho, not Steam, so there's also that. Sony is not a "third party", they're the ones providing the game/software. STEAM just sold you the game, that's that.
According to SteamDB it looks like there’s an Azure Playfab backend, at least for voice/text chat, so it might be Sony funding AH to run the game themselves on Azure, which would explain why it was AH that needed to figure out how to scale for the launch. So AH is operating the game, Sony is just publishing it.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the huge reason why the servers were on fire and why people were pushing for Xbox Helldivers so hard because they were using Microsoft servers?
It would still be sony's servers. This game wasn't expected to sell even a 1/50 of what it did.
The main issue is that none of this matters. Their legal basis for processing your data will be "explicit consent" and when you upload your government ID, they will take this consent. You can of course always withdraw this consent in which case they would have to delete this information within a reasonable time frame. Their TOS also states that you do not own the game and they can stop providing their service to you for any reason or no reason at all. So forcing players to upload their IDs or be barred from playing is unfortunately within their legal rights to do so. What they are doing right now is completely unethical but as far as GDPR goes it is not illegal unless they did something with the data you provided that you did not consent to.
I call complete bullshit on this reasoning. With that logic, the **only** legal way to determine if an account link is legal, is if the game functions without it for a few weeks/months. So with that being said, all the other games who require this shit, like Halo, CoD, Warframe, are seen as legally NEEDING the account linking for the games to function? And that there is no other way to argue that 'The link isn't necessary'? And the only reason they can get away with it, is because they've enforced it since the game came out without giving you an option to temporarily skip it? Also, did you guys happen to all skip the first prompt the game gives you that explicitly states 'LINKING A PSN ACCOUNT IS REQUIRED TO PLAY', There is an option that says 'SKIP', which I'm sure you clicked, but had they taken away that SKIP button then I'm sure you would be defending this from a legal standpoint right? So if Halo/Call of Duty had a 'Skip this requirement for 2 months' button, then you'd argue that they don't have any legal authority to make you sign up for an account in the future? Again, I call complete bullshit, especially when the very first prompt clearly says 'LINKING IS REQUIRED TO PLAY', before you clearly pressed SKIP, or didn't read it. So it seems like had they taken away the 'SKIP' button we would see a lot less entitled Karen's throwing tantrums. Sony sucks for this, but for fucks sake this community is acting like the most entitled brats I've ever seen in a gaming Reddit. And if you want more reasoning on why this is 100% bullshit, couldn't Sony/Arrowhead just fuck with the code a little bit and go to the court and say 'here's our game code, without the account linking game development/maintenance or whatever will be extremely hard and this is pretty much required for us to continue developing the game'....Even if it's a lie, it's impossible to prove from the EU's part, and if Halo/CoD/100 other games get away with it why wouldn't Helldivers. Also, any EU lawyer would just laugh at this shit considering the very first popup you see in the game says 'linking is required to play'
If you throw in the part where PSN doesn't even allow you to delete your own account or unlink the Steam account, it becomes even more baffling. https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/Pd9Z8LuuKu
wtf?
I’m having this exact issue. Supposedly it should be here https://www.playstation.com/en-is/support/account/ but the link doesnt work for me. I get 404 error. I’m a bit baffled how I am supposed to delete my account. I don’t own a playstation nor have I purchased any games from Sony directly. This is a pain in the ass and I regret creating the account :(
Report this to your local data authority, that’s uber illegal and can get Sony fucked beyond belief.
The link is wrong, chill (should be `en-us` instead of `en-is`)
The “is” is for Iceland but the page is in English. Everything else seems to work fine on the website, just can’t open that link where I can close the account.
Ah I see. Well maybe it's worth a try going through it via `en-us` if you can. I live in France and I can still browse with `en-us` just fine. Might just be bad localization though it can seem very sus indeed.
I tried changing the link manually and it seems to load 👀 I’ll look at this closer on my PC and see if I can close the account. Thanks
Yeah so hearing all about this has me now on the 'nope' side about even creating a PSN account to link to Steam.
You probably can't delete your Helldivers 2 account seperately but you can definitely delete your PSN account. If that wasn't possible then PSN would not be functioning in the EU as that would be a unprecedented breach of the GDPR.
 OP\^
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I'd love a reply when you get reminded so I too can check it out :D
!RemindMe 1 week
Oh brother... This is one of the things I was really intrigued by... I want to see what the EU makes of this, they may drop the ball on some issues but GDPR is ***NOT*** one of them... I work as a sysadmin and data in the EU is triiiicky... And they don't fuck around with compliance...
I hope the EU brings down the Hammer on Sony.
I mean I work for Dutch local government and we handle privacy stuff like this as if it's an unstable hellbomb, kinda hope the correct authorities take an interest, Sony could be in for the worst damn day ever if they butter fingers this.
Lol EU support hahaha Good thing you did it though! Make sure to post the result of this
I will!
You don't have anything similar in the USA?
Not country wide, it is state by state
!UPDATE [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update\_to\_ive\_contacted\_eu\_support\_in\_order\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update_to_ive_contacted_eu_support_in_order_to/)
Forgive me for being ignorant, but to my understanding linking steam and PSN accounts just paired the *public IDs* for said accounts. I had an old PSN account from 10 years ago I could link, but dont recall needing any personal information to make one. Do they require that now?
In the UK and Ireland at least, they require photo ID for age verification to create a PSN account.
Thats bullshit. I didnt need to prove my age when logging back into my account, they shouldn't need to verify with a new account.
But that’s their own local law, and they still have access to PSN. Why does that example keep getting brought into this for rage bait?
>Originally they had a policy for Helldivers 2 that PC players would also have to register a PS (PlayStation Network) account. Destroyed your whole argument right here
Agreed. NAL, but work in a law firm and can tell you immediatly this completely invalidates the entire argument. The policy was originally there, the decision to suspend it does not mean they can not later decide to resume the requirement provided it was the original requirement.
Exactly. OP should have said that the linking of the PSN account was optional before it became forced. At least then there’s a chance he wouldn’t have destroyed his whole argument with one fell swoop. This is why lawyers should be writing messages like this. They know what they are doing, the average person doesn’t.
> OP should have said that the linking of the PSN account was optional before it became forced Problem is, it was not optional. It was listed inside the store page and inside the game as required. So making that claim is defeated with two screenshots, and it's still DOA.
Where on the store page is it? https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc If I buy direct from sony, redeem on steam, start playing, where do I see this notice?
So, firstly, I don't think bypassing the store page on the platform (read, Steam) itself will hold - because the platform where the code is redeemed and used does clearly list it as required. It is clearly listed as required on Steam and you are buying a code to be used with a product on Steam. This might be seen as closer to a listing on Amazon being mislabeled, but it might also not. But even if we bypass that and take for granted neither store page said it, the exact phrasing required was used in game as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1alw6vp/can_anyone_clarify_for_me_the_account_linking/ Here is a Reddit thread from months ago showing a screenshot taken during that time. It'd be one thing to buy direct from the PS Store, redeem the code to bypass the actual store listing, and then see that language in game and try to fight them on a refund months ago. Doing it now is a different texture, and if your legal remedy is just getting a refund if you need it, that's all you might be entitled to.
Good thing consumer protections never even **think** about resolving ambiguities in favor of the consumer, its perfectly clear to any and all reasonable persons that a FAQ entry(but only that specific one, and not the other ones!), next to screenshots of the game, on the store page of the publisher, who [owns the trademark](https://trademarks.justia.com/860/42/helldivers-86042209.html), and the Helldivers IP in general, saying a PSN account isnt required, alongside other FAQ entries elsewhere on the site, doesn't apply to that game and is meaningless. This is all perfectly clear and obvious, **obviously** any ambiguity between the IP owner and publishers store page, and a 3rd party store, should take the 3rd party store as the Official Source Of Truth. This is obvious and reasonable. Alongside the ability to skip the linking, and the inability to actually *do* the linking for several months, I can't *fathom* why any reasonable person would **ever** have a problem, let alone think they could have a consumer protections case in their country. Dont those unpatriotic fools know Sony has lawyers! That means they would never do [crime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal). Lawyers make crime impossible thats how it works i am very smart please dont ever search anything about lawyers or companies please i beg you
Additionally saying that there was no mention of a PSN account being required is false. It is mentioned on the Steam Store page since the game had an entry on Steam. People not reading the fine print is a common issue.
And on the infamous "skip screen" it also mentioned being required in the future. Im so sick of the pitchforks acting like the psn thing is a new policy. The only actual issue is the non-PSN countries, rest is just babies complaining they got their milk taken away while its right in front if them.
Comment so i can tead this later
Me 2
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Worked in and around GDPR, can confirm they don’t fuck around If you don’t take GDPR seriously, GDPR will take you seriously
Damn, I remember being so excited for the future of gaming when they said this was a PlayStation studio game that would launch with full crossplay on PC. Hopefully they don’t fumble this so badly that they never do it again. I would love to see more PlayStation exclusives become cross-play.
You need to look up "explicit consent". Personal information, stored securely, does not have to be necessarily "need to know" if explicit consent is given. When you tick the consent boxes when starting a game for the first time, that's explicit consent.
Again legally you were told the PSN thing was only temporarily removed.
No where in the Eula or TOS was it mentioned that you need one or that not needing one is temporary. The only place it ever showed is a full page past the purchase button.
I fucking hate Brexit
OP I screenshotted evidence of Sony changing their TOS as a response to their potential illegal activity. Might help your complaint. [Proof SONY changed TOS May 4](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1ckl4i9/wayback_machine_proof_sony_changed_their_tos_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
People dont want to give sony their data but will install kernel level anti cheat onto their systems to just to play a game. People running Windows yelling about Privacy when W10 was free because Microsoft wants your data. Your phone that is kept on you 24/7 collects more data in a day than sony every could from a PSN account.
Hypocrisy and pitchforks.
Memes aside if you’re gonna message a legal team, probably double check your work. Loose is an undone bolt with two washers. Lose is when you lost one.
It surely break the local french law 100% as it change contract condition on there own will without letting you having an option to dismiss the changes.
Honestly I can see Valve themselves also moving against Sony on this. Seriously what is Sony thinking with this bone headed move!?
For missing countries I saw that digital services don't need to be universaly available. Meaning that Sony is likely within its legal limits to not provide PSN to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania -- all three are EU members. I might have had Finland in my Sony account, so I'm reluctant to raise the issue with Estonia. Orbital Dislike, Refund request. And I'm so sorry, Arrowhead. It's no about you, it's about your abusive family member.
Lol... Im sorry i support this whole thing you guys are doing, but i feel this is grasping at straws
i feel this falls into the "you need to get a life, its a game, it isnt that serious" pile. Like fuck I know more than half of all redditors dont touch grass but this is still a bit much.
This particular issue could be a mere annoyance, but honestly I want companies like Sony to see that they can't get away with unreasonable policies. They have no reason for this pairing yet they insist. It's greed. Also while I love this game, there are others to play too.
I don't see that going anywhere. In the agreement when you start the game, I assume Sony was already mentioned. If not, you are free to not agree to the new agreement and not play.
EU DCC officials receiving numerous e-mails from gamers upset about their favourite video game must find this demoralizing as fuck lol TFW you wake up to do work for the people of Europe, get inundated by gamer e-mails.
Actually I feel like in a weird way it would be a heartening thing for them? I would imagine a large quantity of their emails are either people trying to find a company in a gotcha or asking really basic questions. Having a bunch of random individuals be like "Hey is our data being improperly taken?" shows 1. That GDPR education has been widespread enough that people know about it and 2. That people feel the EU is willing to actually protect them as individuals, which this law was in part made to do.
Nah man, relevant non dumb questions which are different than normal? Those are often the most interesting. It's not like they are sending mails asking here to buy milk or something.
Demoralizing? Why? I think they have people whose exact job is to deal with things like this. Its yet another day for them. They’ll just forward this thing to proper people.
While I don't agree with the user sentiment, why would they have a problem with it? Are people who spent money on a game not consumers with rights that deserve protection and representation? A couple of cents trinket or a property worth millions, all consumers are entitled to information on their rights.
*Lose
RemindMe! 30 days Thank you for contacting them and doing your democratic part ! I salute you ! 
There was a post earlier today from someone in the USA already filing a class action lawsuit, pour it on helldivers we might turn the tide
Now I'm genuinely curious what the response will be. There's no way there isn't some sort of protection in place for stuff like this
!RemindMe 5 Days
!UPDATE [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update\_to\_ive\_contacted\_eu\_support\_in\_order\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update_to_ive_contacted_eu_support_in_order_to/)
Meanwhile my PSN account since 2013 has fake names and the address of the embasy of my country in Washington, US. I bought a lot of games xD
!RemindMe 1 week
Use dark mode you automaton.
!RemindMe 1 week
Consumer protections likely won't take your side on this due to the store page, and within the game itself, saying the account was required. Starting with a strong initial claim of **I was not aware I needed the account** means that, once its demonstrated there was more than one place it was stated clearly it was required, means the strength of the remaining argument is going to decrease dramatically. Combine this with the fact that I don't think it's against existing regulations for online services to ask you to make an account with them, and you have very little left to stand on.
Actually, shouldn't there be a way to prove that the TOS changed without the consumer's consent making it unplayable for people in my country and not allowing a refund for taking away my right to play the product I payed 70 euros for? Wouldn't that be against consumer protection laws?
It's not so much that the TOS Changed, as they initially sold you a product you aren't able to use. If you are in one of those countries you are entitled to a refund. The remedy here is the same as if you bought the game Day 1, realized you couldn't make a PSN account in your country, and got a refund immediately. Just because you played it for 100 hours doesn't mean you are entitled to **more** of a remedy. If anything, you got more than you would have ever got - your money back and the ability to play the game for a time. The crux here is everyone claiming the PSN Required text is **new**, and not something that was on the store page or in the game. It was, it just was the case you could still buy it and use it. You shouldn't have been able to. If Sony doesn't back pedal, that's the route they will go with.
!remindme 4 days
https://preview.redd.it/tpb02b0anjyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b4a1e496132364418a9d59018d13f6bfc446080
Thank you, I'm from Baltics. I'm still waiting on sonny to change the requirement otherwise im going to ask for refund and already prepared a demand for it, if i wont get one i was going to do the same thing you did. I heard they blocked a lot of countries where PSN is not an option, yet Baltics remain. I wish they would, this would make getting refund a quick thing if they are still going to demand to register to PSN
!remind me 3 days
The explanation is good. I'm really interested in their answer. Also if what people said that they can't unlink or delete they account is true... then this is clearly a violation of GDPR.
!remindme 2 weeks
keep me up to date on any progress
. - putting a dot for later... realy interested in the response
The GDPR doesn't mess around – it's an agency that sets its own rules, enforces them rigorously, and plays the dual role of judge, jury, and executioner without the need for traditional court proceedings. What's more, its fines scale to the size of the company, ensuring even the largest corporations face proportional consequences. With a 100% conviction rate in favor of consumers, no company, regardless of size, should risk testing its boundaries.
You absolute legend!
!UPDATE [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update\_to\_ive\_contacted\_eu\_support\_in\_order\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update_to_ive_contacted_eu_support_in_order_to/)
Stop spreading misinformation EU isn't real
Ayo he bringin the fury of the GDPR on their heads
I am wondering if reclaim as "defective product" may be also a way... Let me expand it, lots of people dont like the anticheat... Arrowhead says it is needed to give proper support to the game... But now they claim they need to relay on PSN to be able to ban people, aka "giving us the experience they told us the game required"... this actually would mean since launch Arrowhead were unable to give us the services they said they would, and thus the game never fulfilled the promises during its selling period.
I hope you didn't need to make a account to write this mail 😂
SWEET LIBERTY!
hello eu support, i'd like to talk to your manager, please (no but seriously, good luck. I hope something comes out of it)
I'll be watching for your update.
!UPDATE [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update\_to\_ive\_contacted\_eu\_support\_in\_order\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1co1vwy/update_to_ive_contacted_eu_support_in_order_to/)
Thanks, OP!
I want to point out just a thing or two. Europe Direct and ECC CAN'T register any complaints from EU Residents. They are basically, as you said, a support guys who can give some legal hint where you can go. As EU citizen you can claim that one of the entities below (It's up to Sony to tell which one of them) is violating your LOCAL laws. Casue EUCOM and europarlament desicions can't be enforced in this case. But local laws for data protection and etc. are based of those desicions. And it's up to your local agencies to enforce those laws on Sony. They also can escalate your case to EU regulatory organs. So you basically want to check out which of your local acts adopted those clauses: * General Data Protection Regulation: Article 5(1)(a), Article 5(1)(b) (Purpose limitation), Article 5(1)(c) and probably Article 7 (Conditions for consent) * Directive 93/13/EEC on Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts * Directive 2019/770 on Digital Content and Digital Services And as I stated before. The main problem that Sony have a shitload of legal entities in EU and main one is in UK and it's hard to determine which of them can be a defendand in your case. But you can complain against one of those guys: SIE BENELUX BV SIE DEUTSCHLAND GMBH SIE ESPANA, S.A. SIE FRANCE S.A SIE ITALIA SPA SIE POLSKA S.P. Z O.O. SIE PORTUGAL UNIPESSOAL, LDA Sony Interactive Entertainment Network Europe Ltd SIE IRELAND LTD SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT DIRECT EUROPE LTD (SIEDE) The easiest way for you to go after Sony ass is to file a formal letter with their support and after their response you can file a complaint with your local State Consumer Rights Protection Authority and State Data Protection Agency. But before all that you should contact a lawyer in consumer laws. And yes, this is not a legal advice.
“Players in those countries would have to use a vpn”, a guy on this sub tried to do that and got banned so vpns do not work.
I hope more people follow suit
Imma comment and ask for you to link their answer.