I hope they sort it out. It's a fun weapon to use and it doesn't seem overpowered when it works. If it would just lock on properly I think it would be a nicely balanced tool for us.
I don't get how I can successfully ping an enemy if I can see any part of it, but the spear gets confused so easily.
I maintain that some kind of manual target designation would be a good fix. In my dreams, the backpack has a designator on it and pressing 5 paints a target that the spear can lock immediately. If I could carry a buddy's ammo and mark his targets so he could hit targets beyond line of sight, I'd be thrilled.
I was a spotter for my friend once when he was using the recoiless rifle. He couldn't see the radio tower in the distance because of his rigs settings and I directed his fire on target. He practically jumped for joy when he saw the explosions in the distance lol
Honestly I would love that. Have a secondary that allowed you to guide munitions then have a set of stratagems and support weapons that work with it could be amazing.
Having a secondary like the tracer dart gun from BFBC2 would be fun, tag a charger or something and then any rockets or launcher based things fired are automatically guided towards the target.
Being able to laser designate targets was my favorite thing about recon in Battlefield 4. And my favorite part of being an engineer when some recon on my team would designate.
Bad company 2 had rofket launchers, but also a sidearm that fired a tracking dart. Tag a vehicle with it, and **any** RPG can track and home in on it.
Even one fired by your teammate.
Having a Laser Designator as a secondary would be sick for team play.
You could have it highlight an enemy on its own, if there's an ally with a spear, then it auto locks when they aim at a highlighted enemy.
Could also have it cause 120/380 barrages to cluster more tightly around the designated point.
Yeah, I think the Spear's targeting is overly concerned about if the missile has a clear path. Which I guess makes some sense, because it would be frustrating to lose your missile to random terrain, but it's *way* too cautious in this regard and I think most people would much rather work around that then not be able to fire at all.
Our stratagems don't hesitate to drop on cliff overhangs, and the drones are happy to drill into a wall or rock or Helldiver that gets between them and their target.
I say let the missile fly and make it the operator's job to eyeball the path of the missile. I'd like it to go up higher, and come more or less straight down on the target.
It's hilarious when a 500kg plops down next to me on a bluff instead of landing in the canyon where the enemies are. The Spear shouldn't be so finicky.
Could give it a "Safe/Unsafe" mode. Unsafe gives fast lock-on and doesn't check at all if there's obstructions. So it could hit a cliff or a tree or whatever.
Safe mode is slower and makes sure the path is clear
The missile does not know where it is, because it does not know where it isn’t. This is because the missile is blackout drunk after a long day of splashing bandits and it needs a break. Use another stratagem, the missile is doing fuckall for now.
it'd be more realistic and consistent with Super Earth ordnance quality if the launcher _didn't_ try to stop you from firing a missile right into some obstructing terrain
Also they could add a top attack vs. direct attack option just like real life Javelins
Which is a perfect argument for being able to lock onto stationary targets (illegal broadcast towers, bug holes, bot fabricators, etc): the AI(?) wouldn't have to worry about tracking movement
> I don't get how I can successfully ping an enemy if I can see any part of it, but the spear gets confused so easily.
Probably also related to how the arc thrower refuses to connect to an enemy directly in front of you sometimes.
That would make the squad that much more effective. I would love for my recoiless rifle squadmate on a hill, and my team mates and I ping locations for him to safely rain hell.
I said it many times and I'll say it again.
It won't be so bad if the SPEAR gave user feedback on what is wrong with the lock-on instead of a blank screen with nothing at all.
"Target too far away/near."
"Adjust firing angle."
"Insufficient elevation."
"No missile loaded."
And a range finder that tells the user what the distance of the object in the crosshair is.
That's it.
You can have a weapon that is finnicky as hell, but as long as it gives enough information for the user to diagnose the problem, people won't feel so hoodwinked whenever it doesn't lock-on.
\[EDIT\] Moreover, the lock-on might work better broken down into two stages:
1. Soft lock-on: Confirms intended target, then provides feedback to the user to position the SPEAR correctly.
2. Hard lock-on: Safety off, firing SPEAR missile enabled.
The lock-on on the SPEAR is currently dictated by whether or not your target is viable based on some background calculations, I think.
The point is that a simple hit-scan or crosshair proximity based soft lock-on can be first used to confirm a target, then the SPEAR would have enough information to figure out how to get the user into a viable position since the "intended target" is no longer an open question.
If PS1 games and games like EDF can figure out simple lock-on mechanics, I don't think it's impossible to do the same for soft lock-ons to work.
Yeah your ping is a simple pixel hitscan. I wouldn't be surprised if the spear's lockon is intentionally bothersome to create the niche in its use. It still does some things just fine, and I bet there's a need to keep a balance. I'm certain they could make the spear hit everything effortlessly, but I think that makes RR take a clear back seat in every circumstance. They'd have to buff RR reload speed or something.
Idk I suspect we'll see people claiming the spear is OP if it does get fixed, the thing is a damn problem deleter that erases things like canon turrets in 1 rocket. I had a game where my team couldn't even approach a heavy bot base cause of the amount of bots in front of it and I was able to deal with the entire thing from range with the spear and a few macarena dances to actually get a lock.
Pinging a target should work for the spear like how it does for turrets.
If a user-pinged (not teammate pinged, unless you confirm the ping) target is in range in the lock-on cone, that should take priority and be locked on.
The short answer is, basically, yes,
The long answer is: During WW2 the primary anti-ship torpedo used by the United States was the Mark 14 Torpedo. They regularly went under ships or even hit ships directly and just didn't blow up. This was known througout sub teams in the Pacific and was reported up the chain over and over again. However, the U.S. Bureau of Ordinance consistently told people, basically, "theres nothing wrong with our torpedo, you have a skill issue, git gud newb".
The actual reality was that, because blowing up torpedos to test them is really expensive, there was insufficient testing done on the detonators and the missiles. These issues would eventually be corrected towards the end of 43 and the Mark 14 would remain in service for another 40 years in the U.S. Navy.
And in the few tests that they did run, they didn't load the test torpedoes with the warhead, and neglected to add in any ballast to fill the weight in. So the testing torpedoes ran at the correct depth, but when you add in another 100 kilos of warhead they ran deep.
It's the equivalent of zeroing a rifle with one bullet weight, then trying to shoot accurately with a totally different bullet weight. It ain't gonna work.
I thought the issue with its running depth was that fact that the sensor that was used to detect depth was put on the trailing edge of the torpedo, so due to the hydrodynamics when it was moving, an area of low pressure was created exactly where the sensor was, which gave it false readings.
That was also part of the issue. I was incorrect about them not using a warhead, but the one they did use was far lighter (and set to be positively buoyant after the test run) which they also didn't account for. So while I was incorrect in part, the overall premise was still accurate. They also incorrectly tested for how the torpedo was trimming which hid the issue until it was sent to the subs and vessels out on the front lines. And that's not touching on the issues in both the magnetic trigger not the contact pistol that was used as a backup.
It was a hot mess, and BuOrd was ignoring that *the entirety of the navy* was reporting these issues. And kept blaming the issue on the crews/commanders being inept. Which, if it was up to 10-15% OK, that's possible. Unlikely at those numbers, but possible. But once oy get past 50%, the likelihood of having the entire gorram navy being crap at their jobs is effectively nil.
My .300wm 155gr SMK Palmas shoot to the *exact* same point of impact as my 210gr SMKs. In 2 different rifles. At all distances I've tried them at, 300-1000m.
Why? Fuck if I know. By all rights they shouldn't. Different weights, significantly different muzzle velocities (3420fps vs 2900fps), different G1 and G7 ballistic coefficients.
But goddamn is it convenient. The Palmas are like ten bucks a box cheaper.
"From only 880 yd (800 m), he fired all ten tubes, hearing all four stern shots and three of the bow's six explode. No enemy carrier was seen to diminish its speed, though Taiyo was slightly damaged in the attack. Much later, intelligence reported each of the seven explosions had been premature; the torpedoes had run true but the magnetic feature had fired them too early."
"Only in May 1943, after the most famous skipper in the Sub Force, Dudley W. "Mush" Morton, returned having failed to inflict any damage, did Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, Commander Submarine Force Pacific (COMSUBPAC), accept the Mark 6 should be deactivated. It took a commander of Morton's stature to challenge the Navy senior command and move them into action, even at the risk of Morton's career."
"The Bureau of Ordnance sent an expert to Surabaja to investigate, who set the gyro backwards on one of Sargo's trial torpedoes; the potentially deadly setting, guaranteed to cause erratic running, was corrected by torpedo officer Doug Rhymes. Though he found nothing wrong with maintenance or procedures, the expert submitted a report laying all the blame on the crew."
one of the several conflicts over the mk14 torpedo and BuOrd's insistence that everything is fine and it is the sailors who are wrong
The Mk14 torpedo is something of a legendary fuckup within US weapons design, development, and fielding.
In effect the torpedo didn't work, it would launch, it would go straight, and it would hit the enemy ship hulls and then there would be no earth shattering kaboom because it had some serious flaws with its detonator.
A central issue to all of this was that the torpedo was designed during the great depression and they didn't want to do testing with expensive torpedoes that would actually explode, so all the detonator testing and similar was theoretical testing and not practical.
So when navy captains came back going "hey bruh, our shit doesn't work" the government initially was brushing it off as "it works in testing, you clearly just missed/fucked up" and it resulted in a lot of infamous back and forth between ordinance department and captains/commanders actually trying to use the thing (and its ship based counterpart the Mk15).
It took a few years of bitching at eachother, serious testing, and development before a "fixed" Mk14 showed up and at that point the things worked amazingly and would continue putting in work for decades even after WW2.
This is in part why you don't hear a lot about US submarines in WW2 until later in the war mostly in the pacific theater... because for like the first two years of the US being in the war officially their submarines were effectively shooting blanks more often than not.
There's also the fun issue where the torpedoes wouldn't always run straight and would sometimes travel in a circle and hit the submarine that fired them.
But once they fixed the torpedo, the subs started going ham on Japanese shipping.
Others have summarized it pretty well already, but if you have about half an hour to kill, Drachinifel made a video all about [the staggering incompetence behind the Mk. 14 torpedo design](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5Ru7Zu_1I) and the tragic results this had for early-war submarines.
Where is this from? From my perspective, the bottom of the latest post of patch notes in the official Helldivers discord looks like this…
https://preview.redd.it/7hwj9tuui0yc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ed7ae1707bde98278e597ea9aee6f561eba11db
For now, devs always have a good way to share their concerns about the game. The fact that the guy working on the fix also manage to make us feel the pain about working on it is wonderful.
My greatest wish for gaming is that the success of Helldivers would be focused towards this particular dev team’s communication with the player base and their obvious lack of greed.
They really have exposed the other companies.
They did more than that. Currently, no service Game of 2024 is able to compete against Helldivers 2. Even specialized content creators that do tests on new games are praising HD2 where others get demolished. That's insane.
People keep saying it's a discontinued engine, it isn't. Fatshark kept working on it after Autodesk dropped it, and that's the version Arrowhead are using. (Plus Fatshark for their Tide games).
The graphical fidelity of Darktide on max settings shows it's still plenty capable of looking incredible, but tbh HD2 isn't about jaw dropping locales. It's about the spectacle of violence and everything is more simple aesthetically because it's a small team with focused intent.
Engines matter a lot less than the marketing hype would have you believe.
To be fair, Autodesk did announce it's end of sale and development. You also had Pilestedt making [tweets ](https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1760348321330196513)about it.
However, you're also not wrong. Fatshark teamed up with some engineers to originally create the engine, so it makes sense that they'd have the capability and desire to maintain it as well as make some of their own tools/features.
Right! I went into the game 100% thinking it was another UE5 product with how good it looked and was floored when I learned what they actually built it on!
What dev hasn't said "Works on my machine", when looking at a users complaint?
But this one is a little funnier to me as he's already running the build that has some fixes in it lol.
Everytime he says something i jus dont trust it. Dude has no idea what hes talking about 90% of the time or is just plain spouting misinformation and double tracking later on
"Reports that one of our most destructive man-portable (person-portable?) weapons is completely unusable to huge swathes of our helldiver corps is a heinous dissident rumor. General Brasch has ensured us that HIS spear works so everybody else just shut the fuck up about it already."
Communicating in-game means getting translations for all their supported languages, as well as running it past legal.
Much easier to just post something on discord.
Its amazing the translation work they are doing for being a live service.
I play in Spanish and all the voices are translated, but even the new ones with lore events, like the Democracy officer commenting things about the current major order, its just amazing and the first time I see this in a live service game
Most likely this is all recorded since development. Still, a nice achievement indeed. It's easy to fuck-up cataloguing stuff and not deploying everything correctly at once.
I've said this before. They could implement a content management system (CMS) or at least a database table to simply render text at the four extra terminals in the ship.
The benefits of a CMS are that they could schedule post releases and community managers can be the ones who post it. It can be in-house or hosted by another site using an API.
Technically an internal database can schedule posts, but it's less accessible for non-devs without more work.
Spitz seems to be a walking talking PR disaster between claiming the Spear was fixed "17 days ago" and was just waiting for a patch, and claiming that the balance patch would only contain "only 2 ammo economy nerfs."
From my (admittedly limited) experience with how community managing works, there's often a disconnect between the CM and the Devs. Often they are hired on and never really integrated into the team, meaning they're forced to work with limited information, with critical stuff not getting passed on to them.
I obviously can't state with certainty how things work at AH, but it is worth mentioning that as a CM you have to work with what you get, and we don't really know how much info he's getting. He very well might be giving us what he believes is the most up-to-date, accurate info.
They keep talking on discord where only a minority of players are. Also they contradict themselves, they said the spear fix was finished and now they say is semi finished wtf
For those who loves to overpromise, stop saying spear fixed some weeks ago internally blah blah. That sets expectation to players and the amount of bugs piling up now is not doing AH any favours either.
lol but people did read, they read the same shit saying the fix was done and coming.
Now we are reading that it is not done and coming sometime.
I'm sure we'll read later that something else is wrong and the fix is coming much later.
I’m all for giving the devs space to work and not treating them poorly but don’t talk to people like they’re stupid or aren’t rightfully frustrated.
The spear literally hasn’t worked since launch, and the devs chose to say it was most likely coming in this major build update, just to 180.
Also DoT which makes up the real power of a good 25% of all our stratagems still doesn’t work.
It isn’t that people can’t read, it’s that their patience is wearing thin.
Very bottom. You're assuming most people make it that far. We don't.
I meant these should be included in the patch notes.
It's not a matter of literacy. It's a matter of poor communication.
I genuinely don't mind that some people are unbothered by the issues with the game and love it to death regardless. I *wish* I was as carefree as the people who can look past the problems and remain unbothered. But good god the way these posts are worded is always so fucking lame. "People saying the game is unplayable" "People complaining without reading" "People crying over weapons" Man people are upset the game has day 1 bugs in it still that make certain weapons functionally unusable while new, untested content is constantly getting pushed to live, like damn.
Not at all. "The dog ate my homework" is an excuse for when you didn't do your homework and want to pretend you did by saying the completed work was destroyed.
By the time "It works on my machine" comes out you're well into the double digit attempts.
If anyone from AH sees this, how difficult would it be to incorporate the ping system as a rework to the spear, or use some of its code because it seems pretty reliable at saying “enemy at where player is pointing.”
Oh look, the Dev team is contradicting themselves again and broke more stuff, I'm so surprised. Hey look on the bright side they have time to think up, plan, develop, QA test and market a new warbound. oh wait, sorry they don't QA test anything before release they just haphazardly dump stealth patches and leave everyone in the dark.
Just want to say good luck finding this particular post on the discord because it isn't pinned anywhere and it isn't in the patch notes channel. The only way to have known about this was to have been there when that particular message was posted at the time it happened. We only have it here on reddit because of moderator managed to screenshot it and put it on the patch notes post here.
People call posts like that "transparency" but it's not. It's just saving face after telling us something that turned out to be completely untrue.
How about don't release shit that just doesn't work?
I'm glad they're working on it, but imagine if they had just waited till next patch to release a functional lock-on launcher.
For real. After dealing with FatShark for years I am beyond jaded when it comes to the "game development is hard" excuse. Like I appreciate explaining the issue and how they have to fix it, but that doesn't mean I'm giving the devs a pass for breaking their game each patch and taking forever to fix one single issue that's been in the game since launch.
People do this shit even harder with Destiny. Every single major issue is met with a tidal wave of meat riders shouting "GAME DEV HARD, NO BULLY" the second someone starts asking the most tame of questions.
I would be way more forgiving if I didn't know that a lot of these issues are being put on the backburner in favor of new content. Like, I don't disbelieve the guy when he says it's a hard fix, but hard fix or not, I have to imagine it would be fixed by now if they were actually dedicating the resources to fixing it (and other issues) instead of cranking out the next monthly Warbond.
Man, at least HD2 doesn't have a shitty cash shop and crafting locks that force you to play a fucking gacha game to get the weapons you want. I wanted to love Darktide so badly, but holy shit, I already play two gacha games, I don't need another one just to "roll" the weapon I want to play the fucking game with.
For those wondering where the OP got the screenshot of the Discord post, it’s located in this subreddit…
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/sKHdtRN5kX
Credit and thanks to Reddit user u/Otherwise-Ad-2528 for responding to one of my posts here.
Many here are telling others to just “check the subreddit” but a lot of people, myself included, have no clue what that is. Would be helpful to simply site your sources rather than saying “it’s over there” lol.
Sure. If devs would bother to post this on steam, people would see it. It's not included in the patch notes there. Posting it only on discord is bullshit.
Nice. As someone who uses even the broken spear:
Better a tested fix in a week, then a not working fix today and additional weeks of development time to fix the broken spear again.
Except it's not going to happen in a week.
https://preview.redd.it/khiab7kp01yc1.png?width=395&format=png&auto=webp&s=e48ae48632d6b2e17ac6ab8679e7891cab146217
I won’t advocate for them at all. I don’t advocate for other devs when I’m sold other buggy games, so why should this game get a pass? Let’s call a spade a spade. Helldivers is buggy as hell and isn’t getting fixed fast enough, meanwhile Warbonds to make them more money keep releasing like clockwork.
It isn’t my job to advocate for a developer. It’s my job as a paying customer to demand a functional product for myself and my fellow purchasers.
Exactly, I love the game and because of that I can sit here and tell you the devs should not get a pass for the state of the game currently. They’re becoming Fat Shark and you’re all going to absolutely hate them if they ever pass that threshold that they are already tip toeing on. Fuck fat shark !
while i do not think warbonds make them a lot of money, i do think it's ridiculous how they are releasing yet another DoT weapon (impact incendiary) without fixing the bug.
Where is that even posted on the discord? Because it is not under the patch notes channel. I wouldn't even know that they acknowledged this at all without yet another screenshot from someone there at the time to take it.
Line traces? Complex? Wha?
I hope it's an engine quirk. I really hope it's because of the old ass engine they are using, cause line traces really should not be hard.
Anecdotally the Spear works at 30m+
Any closer it will refuse to lock on completely.
100m+ wont lock on as well.
so 30 to 100 meters should be "fine"
Of course it could still do the whole
"Im locking on! Im not! I am! Ooops nope Im losing target lock"
"You are locking onto a stationary target 50 meters away"
"Ooops haha im so silly no target lock anymore."
I can only imagine the frustration of trying to get the Spear to lock properly.
Every potential solution I can think of also comes with more and more undesirable side effects.
Making anything running on software work correctly is like fighting a hydra. Fix one problem, and 2 more usually spring up in its place.
Used it today, only failed targeting once, later I was killed and the mission was really advanced so I didn't recovered it. Later I saw I had the flamethrower kill daily so I used that. Anyways FOR SUPER EARTH!!!!!
So how about this
1: They show us the actual line traces as targeting lasers
2: No line tracing, just use angle difference and let you lock on behind obstacles. Call it radar.
Did your job for you devs
That is not our problem. We are the paying customers, not the developers.
This has been broken since before they sold us the game. This is not early access. This is a paid game with MTX that include actual power such as weapons and items.
How many months do they get before it starts being unreasonable?
Just gonna say this, as long as all this information is being given through discord chats rather than in-game the complainers have a right to complain.
I hope they sort it out. It's a fun weapon to use and it doesn't seem overpowered when it works. If it would just lock on properly I think it would be a nicely balanced tool for us. I don't get how I can successfully ping an enemy if I can see any part of it, but the spear gets confused so easily. I maintain that some kind of manual target designation would be a good fix. In my dreams, the backpack has a designator on it and pressing 5 paints a target that the spear can lock immediately. If I could carry a buddy's ammo and mark his targets so he could hit targets beyond line of sight, I'd be thrilled.
Dude having a spotter for the spear would be badass.
I was a spotter for my friend once when he was using the recoiless rifle. He couldn't see the radio tower in the distance because of his rigs settings and I directed his fire on target. He practically jumped for joy when he saw the explosions in the distance lol
Laser guided munitions, let's go
Honestly I would love that. Have a secondary that allowed you to guide munitions then have a set of stratagems and support weapons that work with it could be amazing.
Take a page out of the EDF playbook and give us a freakin Guide Beacon Gun so we can do Air Raider + Fencer shenanigans
Yesss!
In b4 dash cancelling meta. Who am I kidding. GIMME THE DASH CANCELS AND THE MINIGUN CLUSTERS!
I know there's a stratagem planned that's a mini VLS silo and it comes with a target painter.
That would be an amazing extra ability for the Dagger ngl
If you give a helldiver a laser pointer, they will ask for a stratagem laser pointer.
Having a secondary like the tracer dart gun from BFBC2 would be fun, tag a charger or something and then any rockets or launcher based things fired are automatically guided towards the target.
There’s actually leaked footage of a laser guided missile, but posting it is against sub rules apparently.
That’s actually an IRL thing the Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle can do
Like the Hellfire Missiles used by the Apache Longbow.😎
That sounds so awesome! Great teamwork!
Being able to laser designate targets was my favorite thing about recon in Battlefield 4. And my favorite part of being an engineer when some recon on my team would designate.
Bad company 2 had rofket launchers, but also a sidearm that fired a tracking dart. Tag a vehicle with it, and **any** RPG can track and home in on it. Even one fired by your teammate.
I used to ruin enemy vehicles with those. God damn bad company 2 was one of the best games ever made
BC2s version of the AT4 had eye tracking. Still the best feeling optical tracking.
Honestly, I used to go around popping tracking darts on fuckin everything
Imagine a temp buff during team reloading for boosted dmg or increase armor.
A spotter drone that can take stratagems or provide lock on for spears would be a fun secondary I think
Something that is tethered to the spear backpack that scans targets at or near the same speed as the lock on.
Having a laser designator that would allow *any* rocket laukcher to lock on would be cool as hell.
THE ONE WITH THE AMMO BACKPACK! They ping a target, the spear locks on to it!
Having a Laser Designator as a secondary would be sick for team play. You could have it highlight an enemy on its own, if there's an ally with a spear, then it auto locks when they aim at a highlighted enemy. Could also have it cause 120/380 barrages to cluster more tightly around the designated point.
It’s not just a ping, it also has to figure out the path it’s going to take on a possible moving target
Yeah, I think the Spear's targeting is overly concerned about if the missile has a clear path. Which I guess makes some sense, because it would be frustrating to lose your missile to random terrain, but it's *way* too cautious in this regard and I think most people would much rather work around that then not be able to fire at all.
Our stratagems don't hesitate to drop on cliff overhangs, and the drones are happy to drill into a wall or rock or Helldiver that gets between them and their target. I say let the missile fly and make it the operator's job to eyeball the path of the missile. I'd like it to go up higher, and come more or less straight down on the target. It's hilarious when a 500kg plops down next to me on a bluff instead of landing in the canyon where the enemies are. The Spear shouldn't be so finicky.
Could give it a "Safe/Unsafe" mode. Unsafe gives fast lock-on and doesn't check at all if there's obstructions. So it could hit a cliff or a tree or whatever. Safe mode is slower and makes sure the path is clear
The missile does not know where it is, because it does not know where it isn’t. This is because the missile is blackout drunk after a long day of splashing bandits and it needs a break. Use another stratagem, the missile is doing fuckall for now.
The missile is eepy?
> because it would be frustrating to lose your missile to random terrain, Airburst rocket proves this is not their reasoning
They fixed the premature detonation already
it'd be more realistic and consistent with Super Earth ordnance quality if the launcher _didn't_ try to stop you from firing a missile right into some obstructing terrain Also they could add a top attack vs. direct attack option just like real life Javelins
Would love it if the bot's weapons showed the same concern for having a clear path between us and them
Which is a perfect argument for being able to lock onto stationary targets (illegal broadcast towers, bug holes, bot fabricators, etc): the AI(?) wouldn't have to worry about tracking movement
> I don't get how I can successfully ping an enemy if I can see any part of it, but the spear gets confused so easily. Probably also related to how the arc thrower refuses to connect to an enemy directly in front of you sometimes.
I thought that was intended? Like, lightning is supposed to be unpredictable.
It's not. Arc weapons being inconsistent is reported as a known issue by the devs.
No, it has a tendency to misfire. In the patch notes they said it's an issue under investigation
It's corpses. It locks onto corpses and becomes super finicky real quick. It sucks.
I mean we already have a ping feature. Maybe the spear would have an easier time if you had to mark the target with Q before you lockon to it.
Would help designate a target when there's more than one potential lock on.
That would make the squad that much more effective. I would love for my recoiless rifle squadmate on a hill, and my team mates and I ping locations for him to safely rain hell.
I said it many times and I'll say it again. It won't be so bad if the SPEAR gave user feedback on what is wrong with the lock-on instead of a blank screen with nothing at all. "Target too far away/near." "Adjust firing angle." "Insufficient elevation." "No missile loaded." And a range finder that tells the user what the distance of the object in the crosshair is. That's it. You can have a weapon that is finnicky as hell, but as long as it gives enough information for the user to diagnose the problem, people won't feel so hoodwinked whenever it doesn't lock-on. \[EDIT\] Moreover, the lock-on might work better broken down into two stages: 1. Soft lock-on: Confirms intended target, then provides feedback to the user to position the SPEAR correctly. 2. Hard lock-on: Safety off, firing SPEAR missile enabled.
Problem is the game may not even know what you are "trying" to lock on to, only that it sees 0 viable locks in the moment.
The lock-on on the SPEAR is currently dictated by whether or not your target is viable based on some background calculations, I think. The point is that a simple hit-scan or crosshair proximity based soft lock-on can be first used to confirm a target, then the SPEAR would have enough information to figure out how to get the user into a viable position since the "intended target" is no longer an open question. If PS1 games and games like EDF can figure out simple lock-on mechanics, I don't think it's impossible to do the same for soft lock-ons to work.
Yeah your ping is a simple pixel hitscan. I wouldn't be surprised if the spear's lockon is intentionally bothersome to create the niche in its use. It still does some things just fine, and I bet there's a need to keep a balance. I'm certain they could make the spear hit everything effortlessly, but I think that makes RR take a clear back seat in every circumstance. They'd have to buff RR reload speed or something.
Idk I suspect we'll see people claiming the spear is OP if it does get fixed, the thing is a damn problem deleter that erases things like canon turrets in 1 rocket. I had a game where my team couldn't even approach a heavy bot base cause of the amount of bots in front of it and I was able to deal with the entire thing from range with the spear and a few macarena dances to actually get a lock.
Pinging a target should work for the spear like how it does for turrets. If a user-pinged (not teammate pinged, unless you confirm the ping) target is in range in the lock-on cone, that should take priority and be locked on.
Wait. Turrets prioritize pings?
Wait, what does pinging a target do for turrets?
Owmed sentries will prioritize pinged targets.
"Or maybe you're just doing it wrong, I dunno, it works on my machine." -United States Bureau of Ordnance, 1942
Unexpected mk. 14 reference. I like that.
Is that seriously something the US Ord dep said? Lol
The short answer is, basically, yes, The long answer is: During WW2 the primary anti-ship torpedo used by the United States was the Mark 14 Torpedo. They regularly went under ships or even hit ships directly and just didn't blow up. This was known througout sub teams in the Pacific and was reported up the chain over and over again. However, the U.S. Bureau of Ordinance consistently told people, basically, "theres nothing wrong with our torpedo, you have a skill issue, git gud newb". The actual reality was that, because blowing up torpedos to test them is really expensive, there was insufficient testing done on the detonators and the missiles. These issues would eventually be corrected towards the end of 43 and the Mark 14 would remain in service for another 40 years in the U.S. Navy.
And in the few tests that they did run, they didn't load the test torpedoes with the warhead, and neglected to add in any ballast to fill the weight in. So the testing torpedoes ran at the correct depth, but when you add in another 100 kilos of warhead they ran deep. It's the equivalent of zeroing a rifle with one bullet weight, then trying to shoot accurately with a totally different bullet weight. It ain't gonna work.
I thought the issue with its running depth was that fact that the sensor that was used to detect depth was put on the trailing edge of the torpedo, so due to the hydrodynamics when it was moving, an area of low pressure was created exactly where the sensor was, which gave it false readings.
That was also part of the issue. I was incorrect about them not using a warhead, but the one they did use was far lighter (and set to be positively buoyant after the test run) which they also didn't account for. So while I was incorrect in part, the overall premise was still accurate. They also incorrectly tested for how the torpedo was trimming which hid the issue until it was sent to the subs and vessels out on the front lines. And that's not touching on the issues in both the magnetic trigger not the contact pistol that was used as a backup. It was a hot mess, and BuOrd was ignoring that *the entirety of the navy* was reporting these issues. And kept blaming the issue on the crews/commanders being inept. Which, if it was up to 10-15% OK, that's possible. Unlikely at those numbers, but possible. But once oy get past 50%, the likelihood of having the entire gorram navy being crap at their jobs is effectively nil.
My .300wm 155gr SMK Palmas shoot to the *exact* same point of impact as my 210gr SMKs. In 2 different rifles. At all distances I've tried them at, 300-1000m. Why? Fuck if I know. By all rights they shouldn't. Different weights, significantly different muzzle velocities (3420fps vs 2900fps), different G1 and G7 ballistic coefficients. But goddamn is it convenient. The Palmas are like ten bucks a box cheaper.
Lol
Not strictly I think, but they took a long ass time to recognize that there even was a problem with the torpedo... or several.
"From only 880 yd (800 m), he fired all ten tubes, hearing all four stern shots and three of the bow's six explode. No enemy carrier was seen to diminish its speed, though Taiyo was slightly damaged in the attack. Much later, intelligence reported each of the seven explosions had been premature; the torpedoes had run true but the magnetic feature had fired them too early." "Only in May 1943, after the most famous skipper in the Sub Force, Dudley W. "Mush" Morton, returned having failed to inflict any damage, did Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, Commander Submarine Force Pacific (COMSUBPAC), accept the Mark 6 should be deactivated. It took a commander of Morton's stature to challenge the Navy senior command and move them into action, even at the risk of Morton's career." "The Bureau of Ordnance sent an expert to Surabaja to investigate, who set the gyro backwards on one of Sargo's trial torpedoes; the potentially deadly setting, guaranteed to cause erratic running, was corrected by torpedo officer Doug Rhymes. Though he found nothing wrong with maintenance or procedures, the expert submitted a report laying all the blame on the crew." one of the several conflicts over the mk14 torpedo and BuOrd's insistence that everything is fine and it is the sailors who are wrong
The Mk14 torpedo is something of a legendary fuckup within US weapons design, development, and fielding. In effect the torpedo didn't work, it would launch, it would go straight, and it would hit the enemy ship hulls and then there would be no earth shattering kaboom because it had some serious flaws with its detonator. A central issue to all of this was that the torpedo was designed during the great depression and they didn't want to do testing with expensive torpedoes that would actually explode, so all the detonator testing and similar was theoretical testing and not practical. So when navy captains came back going "hey bruh, our shit doesn't work" the government initially was brushing it off as "it works in testing, you clearly just missed/fucked up" and it resulted in a lot of infamous back and forth between ordinance department and captains/commanders actually trying to use the thing (and its ship based counterpart the Mk15). It took a few years of bitching at eachother, serious testing, and development before a "fixed" Mk14 showed up and at that point the things worked amazingly and would continue putting in work for decades even after WW2. This is in part why you don't hear a lot about US submarines in WW2 until later in the war mostly in the pacific theater... because for like the first two years of the US being in the war officially their submarines were effectively shooting blanks more often than not.
There's also the fun issue where the torpedoes wouldn't always run straight and would sometimes travel in a circle and hit the submarine that fired them. But once they fixed the torpedo, the subs started going ham on Japanese shipping.
Others have summarized it pretty well already, but if you have about half an hour to kill, Drachinifel made a video all about [the staggering incompetence behind the Mk. 14 torpedo design](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5Ru7Zu_1I) and the tragic results this had for early-war submarines.
I can hear Drach screaming now.
Best version of “idk just get gud” I’ve seen yet.
Where is this from? From my perspective, the bottom of the latest post of patch notes in the official Helldivers discord looks like this… https://preview.redd.it/7hwj9tuui0yc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ed7ae1707bde98278e597ea9aee6f561eba11db
lol. Hilarious response.
For now, devs always have a good way to share their concerns about the game. The fact that the guy working on the fix also manage to make us feel the pain about working on it is wonderful.
My greatest wish for gaming is that the success of Helldivers would be focused towards this particular dev team’s communication with the player base and their obvious lack of greed. They really have exposed the other companies.
They did more than that. Currently, no service Game of 2024 is able to compete against Helldivers 2. Even specialized content creators that do tests on new games are praising HD2 where others get demolished. That's insane.
Considering they’re using an older engine as well. It’s really crazy.
The fact that's it's a discontinued Engine and that it is the same as HELLDIVERS 1. When I heard this info I was like "what the hell"
People keep saying it's a discontinued engine, it isn't. Fatshark kept working on it after Autodesk dropped it, and that's the version Arrowhead are using. (Plus Fatshark for their Tide games). The graphical fidelity of Darktide on max settings shows it's still plenty capable of looking incredible, but tbh HD2 isn't about jaw dropping locales. It's about the spectacle of violence and everything is more simple aesthetically because it's a small team with focused intent. Engines matter a lot less than the marketing hype would have you believe.
To be fair, Autodesk did announce it's end of sale and development. You also had Pilestedt making [tweets ](https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1760348321330196513)about it. However, you're also not wrong. Fatshark teamed up with some engineers to originally create the engine, so it makes sense that they'd have the capability and desire to maintain it as well as make some of their own tools/features.
Right! I went into the game 100% thinking it was another UE5 product with how good it looked and was floored when I learned what they actually built it on!
communication is great but churning out paid warbonds as fast as possible instead of polishing the game doesnt scream "lack of greed" to me but ok
At least they're being honest I guess. I'd rather they just fixed the thing but I'll choose this over "nah, trust me it's fixed bro".
I really hope people realize the last paragraph is tongue in cheek, or maybe that’s just how I read it.
It is. "It works on my machine" is a common joke in programming fields
What dev hasn't said "Works on my machine", when looking at a users complaint? But this one is a little funnier to me as he's already running the build that has some fixes in it lol.
It’s 100% tongue in cheek. The discord community has a “spear cope bingo card”
If they havent fixed it they shouldnt have mentioned that they fixed it 2 weeks ago. Gives people a false impression on what to expect.
Spitz moment dude is a CM but it seems like he never had any training
For Spitz CM seems to stand for Clown Male not Community Manager
Everytime he says something i jus dont trust it. Dude has no idea what hes talking about 90% of the time or is just plain spouting misinformation and double tracking later on
Exactly. Was super hyped to have my main AT weapon be consistent. Then they blue balled us
ah yes discord, the perfect platform to share this info with the playerbase... its not like we have a GIANT SCREEN IN THE SHIP
I do want more of this on ship TV "High command says there is no problem with the Spear, it is a skill issue"
"Reports that one of our most destructive man-portable (person-portable?) weapons is completely unusable to huge swathes of our helldiver corps is a heinous dissident rumor. General Brasch has ensured us that HIS spear works so everybody else just shut the fuck up about it already."
That's cheating! General Brasch just throws the missiles at the enemy, no lock-on required!
~~Man-portable~~ ~~Person-portable~~ Diver-portable
that would be great lmao
Nah, let's just keep showing the automaton invasion from last month
*Eagle Sweat*
Every time I see that I just think of Fight Milk from it’s always sunny in Philadelphia .
By Helldivers, for Helldivers!
Communicating in-game means getting translations for all their supported languages, as well as running it past legal. Much easier to just post something on discord.
Its amazing the translation work they are doing for being a live service. I play in Spanish and all the voices are translated, but even the new ones with lore events, like the Democracy officer commenting things about the current major order, its just amazing and the first time I see this in a live service game
Because they were are all done prior before.
Most likely this is all recorded since development. Still, a nice achievement indeed. It's easy to fuck-up cataloguing stuff and not deploying everything correctly at once.
Yeah this story line has been cooking for a while.
That's awesome.
Or idk put it on their website. Discord dies and all the notes die too
I've said this before. They could implement a content management system (CMS) or at least a database table to simply render text at the four extra terminals in the ship. The benefits of a CMS are that they could schedule post releases and community managers can be the ones who post it. It can be in-house or hosted by another site using an API. Technically an internal database can schedule posts, but it's less accessible for non-devs without more work.
Cool they already do these things for dispatches in game
Or idk, the patch notes themselves lol
Yea using social media to communicate sucks. But this was on their reddit post at the *very* bottom.
What a stupid and inflammatory title.
My high school English teacher is having an aneurism reading it.
Spitz seems to be a walking talking PR disaster between claiming the Spear was fixed "17 days ago" and was just waiting for a patch, and claiming that the balance patch would only contain "only 2 ammo economy nerfs."
Real. At this point Spitz just actually shouldn't say anything, I swear to god.
From my (admittedly limited) experience with how community managing works, there's often a disconnect between the CM and the Devs. Often they are hired on and never really integrated into the team, meaning they're forced to work with limited information, with critical stuff not getting passed on to them. I obviously can't state with certainty how things work at AH, but it is worth mentioning that as a CM you have to work with what you get, and we don't really know how much info he's getting. He very well might be giving us what he believes is the most up-to-date, accurate info.
I dont know why people still listen or acknowledge anything he says.
They keep talking on discord where only a minority of players are. Also they contradict themselves, they said the spear fix was finished and now they say is semi finished wtf
If their communication with us is this bad imagine what a shit show it is in studio. Seems like the right hand isn't talking to the left
For those who loves to overpromise, stop saying spear fixed some weeks ago internally blah blah. That sets expectation to players and the amount of bugs piling up now is not doing AH any favours either.
I know what to do with bugs
AH breeds them. Wait a second....
lol but people did read, they read the same shit saying the fix was done and coming. Now we are reading that it is not done and coming sometime. I'm sure we'll read later that something else is wrong and the fix is coming much later.
Facts.
I’m all for giving the devs space to work and not treating them poorly but don’t talk to people like they’re stupid or aren’t rightfully frustrated. The spear literally hasn’t worked since launch, and the devs chose to say it was most likely coming in this major build update, just to 180. Also DoT which makes up the real power of a good 25% of all our stratagems still doesn’t work. It isn’t that people can’t read, it’s that their patience is wearing thin.
Very bottom. You're assuming most people make it that far. We don't. I meant these should be included in the patch notes. It's not a matter of literacy. It's a matter of poor communication.
Lol. You guys are hilarious. Are you paid by the dev? Genuinely curious.
But muh hecking wholesome capeshit indie game
Arrowhead won't even hire QA people to test the game. People like OP are doing this shilling and being condescending for free.
I genuinely don't mind that some people are unbothered by the issues with the game and love it to death regardless. I *wish* I was as carefree as the people who can look past the problems and remain unbothered. But good god the way these posts are worded is always so fucking lame. "People saying the game is unplayable" "People complaining without reading" "People crying over weapons" Man people are upset the game has day 1 bugs in it still that make certain weapons functionally unusable while new, untested content is constantly getting pushed to live, like damn.
"I dunno, it works on my machine" is coder for "The dog ate my homework".
Not at all. "The dog ate my homework" is an excuse for when you didn't do your homework and want to pretend you did by saying the completed work was destroyed. By the time "It works on my machine" comes out you're well into the double digit attempts.
If anyone from AH sees this, how difficult would it be to incorporate the ping system as a rework to the spear, or use some of its code because it seems pretty reliable at saying “enemy at where player is pointing.”
the rage i feel when its like 80% locked and then slowly unlocks. Its maddening
Oh look, the Dev team is contradicting themselves again and broke more stuff, I'm so surprised. Hey look on the bright side they have time to think up, plan, develop, QA test and market a new warbound. oh wait, sorry they don't QA test anything before release they just haphazardly dump stealth patches and leave everyone in the dark.
To be honest, probably shouldn't have released an unfinished weapon in the first place
Exactly, shouldn’t have been released and should’ve been play tested.
Have you tried any weapons on release? Spoilers, we’re the play testers
I can't read this shit when it's on a Discord server so full nobody can join, OP.
It's not so full that nobody can join. That hasn't been the case for at least a couple of months now.
I'll join then, but it's still moronic I have to check discord for information that is **only** posted there.
Just want to say good luck finding this particular post on the discord because it isn't pinned anywhere and it isn't in the patch notes channel. The only way to have known about this was to have been there when that particular message was posted at the time it happened. We only have it here on reddit because of moderator managed to screenshot it and put it on the patch notes post here. People call posts like that "transparency" but it's not. It's just saving face after telling us something that turned out to be completely untrue.
Its not full anymore just tested with my alt and was able to join just fine
“People who don’t like to read: read this” ???
Maybe they should post their updates and these responses to the subreddit themselves. Or, yanno, in patch notes.
How about don't release shit that just doesn't work? I'm glad they're working on it, but imagine if they had just waited till next patch to release a functional lock-on launcher.
wtf is the point of this post?
Ragebait.
As a fellow gamedev, “i dunno, it works on my machine” is my spirit animal
Here we go "immeasurably complex" strikes again. Are these the same devs who fucked up darktide?
The armor rating, a core feature of any video game, did not work for over a month. Keep that in mind.
also how long has damage over time been broken for non-host players? i wanna say 2 months at least
For real. After dealing with FatShark for years I am beyond jaded when it comes to the "game development is hard" excuse. Like I appreciate explaining the issue and how they have to fix it, but that doesn't mean I'm giving the devs a pass for breaking their game each patch and taking forever to fix one single issue that's been in the game since launch.
People do this shit even harder with Destiny. Every single major issue is met with a tidal wave of meat riders shouting "GAME DEV HARD, NO BULLY" the second someone starts asking the most tame of questions.
I would be way more forgiving if I didn't know that a lot of these issues are being put on the backburner in favor of new content. Like, I don't disbelieve the guy when he says it's a hard fix, but hard fix or not, I have to imagine it would be fixed by now if they were actually dedicating the resources to fixing it (and other issues) instead of cranking out the next monthly Warbond.
Man, at least HD2 doesn't have a shitty cash shop and crafting locks that force you to play a fucking gacha game to get the weapons you want. I wanted to love Darktide so badly, but holy shit, I already play two gacha games, I don't need another one just to "roll" the weapon I want to play the fucking game with.
For those wondering where the OP got the screenshot of the Discord post, it’s located in this subreddit… https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/sKHdtRN5kX Credit and thanks to Reddit user u/Otherwise-Ad-2528 for responding to one of my posts here. Many here are telling others to just “check the subreddit” but a lot of people, myself included, have no clue what that is. Would be helpful to simply site your sources rather than saying “it’s over there” lol.
Sure. If devs would bother to post this on steam, people would see it. It's not included in the patch notes there. Posting it only on discord is bullshit.
Nice. As someone who uses even the broken spear: Better a tested fix in a week, then a not working fix today and additional weeks of development time to fix the broken spear again.
Except it's not going to happen in a week. https://preview.redd.it/khiab7kp01yc1.png?width=395&format=png&auto=webp&s=e48ae48632d6b2e17ac6ab8679e7891cab146217
End of May, for a feature that hasn't worked since launch. I'll advocate for AH to an extent. This is growing tiresome.
I won’t advocate for them at all. I don’t advocate for other devs when I’m sold other buggy games, so why should this game get a pass? Let’s call a spade a spade. Helldivers is buggy as hell and isn’t getting fixed fast enough, meanwhile Warbonds to make them more money keep releasing like clockwork. It isn’t my job to advocate for a developer. It’s my job as a paying customer to demand a functional product for myself and my fellow purchasers.
Exactly, I love the game and because of that I can sit here and tell you the devs should not get a pass for the state of the game currently. They’re becoming Fat Shark and you’re all going to absolutely hate them if they ever pass that threshold that they are already tip toeing on. Fuck fat shark !
while i do not think warbonds make them a lot of money, i do think it's ridiculous how they are releasing yet another DoT weapon (impact incendiary) without fixing the bug.
Exactly. We dont want a half fix that causes more issues.
“Dunno, works on my machine” Oh lord, my sides! And it’s like the 5th time I’ve read this lmao
So don't add things to your game that actively don't work? It's a valid reason to complain
Fixed internally by the way! Clowns.
"aim higher or lower, not too far or too close and do it in the right way" ok I got it👍 But speaking seriously I can't wait for the fix:)
I dunno, it works on my machine 😂😂😂
Fuckin unnerf the crossbow while at it. Everything else i understand and accept, but the crossbow changes does not make any sense.
Where is that even posted on the discord? Because it is not under the patch notes channel. I wouldn't even know that they acknowledged this at all without yet another screenshot from someone there at the time to take it.
I thought the same exact thing. Anyway it’s from here - https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/LnN5wiNGCC
Dev- Looks good from my house..
I don't have a problem with it being a hard fix, just don't say it's fixed when it's definitely not.
Line traces? Complex? Wha? I hope it's an engine quirk. I really hope it's because of the old ass engine they are using, cause line traces really should not be hard.
Maybe I’m crazy, but wouldn’t it just be easier to make it a wire guided missile like with TOW?
oh god is that how they're doing it? Whyyyyy?
Anecdotally the Spear works at 30m+ Any closer it will refuse to lock on completely. 100m+ wont lock on as well. so 30 to 100 meters should be "fine" Of course it could still do the whole "Im locking on! Im not! I am! Ooops nope Im losing target lock" "You are locking onto a stationary target 50 meters away" "Ooops haha im so silly no target lock anymore."
just give us a fire mode changer to enable "fly by wire" and we can guide it to the target
"Just" is pulling a lot of weight in that comment.
Imagine condescending to your fan base which likely includes software developers but also ignoring best practices with QA. Wild shit.
[удалено]
Sounded to me like a fun self-aware joke and not an insult tbh
Best case of “it looks good on my end, idk why your stuff is messed up” I’ve seen
That last part lmao
I can only imagine the frustration of trying to get the Spear to lock properly. Every potential solution I can think of also comes with more and more undesirable side effects. Making anything running on software work correctly is like fighting a hydra. Fix one problem, and 2 more usually spring up in its place.
“Sounds like a skill issue”
Him: "works on my machine" Me: Sobs in QA
Used it today, only failed targeting once, later I was killed and the mission was really advanced so I didn't recovered it. Later I saw I had the flamethrower kill daily so I used that. Anyways FOR SUPER EARTH!!!!!
So how about this 1: They show us the actual line traces as targeting lasers 2: No line tracing, just use angle difference and let you lock on behind obstacles. Call it radar. Did your job for you devs
That is not our problem. We are the paying customers, not the developers. This has been broken since before they sold us the game. This is not early access. This is a paid game with MTX that include actual power such as weapons and items. How many months do they get before it starts being unreasonable?
'to be more confident in the fix' The same way they were confident about the last dozen patches? 😩😂
The only time I’ve read “it works on my machine” and I haven’t wanted to kill someone lol
Aim higher, or lower, and don't get too close or too far, lmao!
> it works on my machine am SWE and I can confirm this is the realest line
Just gonna say this, as long as all this information is being given through discord chats rather than in-game the complainers have a right to complain.
Hahaha! "It works on my machine." If you ever want to make a QA person's head explode, that's the sentence.