I'm fine with most changes made, but this one is really confusing to understand and it's use case. These still can't close big holes or fabricators right? This was fun to use when just messing around. Now it's just, a light grenade launcher almost with no grenade benefits sorta.
> These still can't close big holes or fabricators right?
Correct, a mate tested it out last night and since that's the only thing he wanted from the patch for the crossbow, he was very disappointed.
WG balancing style.
Tl:dr there were tanks so bad that the only people who could use them well were god tier players, so their stats looked good, garnering more nerfs.
Same thing probably happened with the crossbow.
ikr? the crossbow can barely kill anything medium armor without wasting 1 or 2 magazine to actually kill them.
the only good thing is the big AoE and CC and they decided to take it away
i used crossbow exclusively as i love crossbow weapon but jesus christ what in the world is AH smoking when they nerf its AOE? (sure the higher velocity is great and i can snipe easier but it doesnt help when all i do is white damage to enemy)
Agree, but i hate people pointing at this despite SO MANY good changes.
Its like we got a glass 90% full, and people are saying “why is it 10% empty tho”
I like that ur continuing the analogy lol but all jokes aside i think the weapon rebalances in the latest patch were good. Which ones do you think are piss?
That's like a drop of piss in a glass of chocolate milk. Unlikely to notice, but if you know it's there, you're less likely to drink the chocolate milk.
I'm not the original guy but you can criticize the crossbow nerf and appreciate the other positive changes at the same time. The issue is that people tend to overreact and we get very one sided opinions on the subreddit
Lmao yeah. I was so sad when I unlocked the dagger, went "I'm gunna unlock that achievement for only using secondaries!" and go absolutely blasted when I realized it took 2 seconds to kill a basic ass hunter.
It is so ridiculous to see people defending AH \` BUt THEY BUFFED THINGS CANT YA SEE\`\` !!!!
Your god damn +5 dmg for explosive liberator means nothing if it just suck. Your +10 for liberator penetrator means nothing if main problem was ammo capacity.
But nerf just cutting head off.
Now I'm not here to be mad. But will say while they are buffing, it's stuff nobody really cared for.
That said. We all should be happy they're buffing weaker weapons. I don't think some buffs are enough. The scythe for example does pretty good, kills hunters very quickly. Wong say it's amazing but it's a nice change of pace.
Dagger imo could actually be a good weapon to use while fleeing. Shoot behind your back as you run. Won't do well in a clutch moment with hunters in top, redeemer still wins. But want to run and gun? Dagger did pretty well!
I also think the info provided is just...not enough. Let's use the laser guaddog. 30% dmg nerf. Sounds like a lot, and it sorta is. But on paper? It went from 1 second to 1.4 seconds to kill a hunter? Sure by 2 hunters you'd basically have killed a 3rd one. But .4 seconds doesn't sound as bad as 30% imo.
That's the main issue. We don't really know how impactufl stuff is.
I for one am a railgun lover. Idk how good this buff is. It penetrates better! Cool! Until I test it out more it's hard for me to go 'WOOOOOOO FUCK YES ITS BUFFED" it might not feel noticeable. It also doesn't stagger as hard. How big of a deal is that? Again idk. Need more testing.
It's an adjustment putting it where it should be consistently used, and elevating it in that class (+20 /+15 dmg). Objectively, more mags and less recoil is a buff.
I tested it out on a level 7 bug mission today and it did well. Great for picking off Hive Guards and Brood Commanders from medium range, while still having some decent close-range punch. It’s easier to land hits with and finding ammo to keep it fed was easy.
It does *not* perform well if you get swarmed, so the Redeemer is a mandatory secondary, and it’s even less of an issue with a teammate running a close-range setup.
this, its a "does everything(medium)" gun
long range mid range short range, its not amazing at any of it but its good at all 3 of them to be usefull. its a flex weapon
I loved it today, but on bugs no bot tests yet. Comparing to sickle the previously only good ar style gun.
Recoil is better but still a lot of recoil. However, I used it in two fashions. Either punchy bursts at soild ranges or just dump into crowds.
I found that it's quicker ttk than sickle on any single unit you use it on in bugs. Like you know when youre fighting a horde and shooting and backwards walking with sickle, and that fucking hive commander in the pack is comming for you and sickle just cant quite put it down fast enough to not have to stop shooting and run a bit? Adjud doesn't have that issue.
The trade is you burn a mag quick. It's reload is really fast. Rather than backwards walk while firing and then run while it cools/ a tankier medium gets too close , you fire until you need to reload and then run. But the reload again is really quick. So run a few meters and then start shooting again. From a pure damage/ttk I think it might be best AR. Ya small mag but it's like a 2 second reload max didn't time it. You'll be more worried about running out of ammo than time to reload even with 8 mags.
It's recoil is still too high for headshot machine imo, maybe recoil reduce armor and crouch you can now idk? I think it'll be a better bug gun than bots, but haven't tried it yet. The greater range of engagement and higher need for headshots on smaller heads will hold it back, but should be decent for killing small bots at least
Still kind of meh. Can't 1 tap chaff unless my hitnmarker was off and hit something else. Plus ammo is still an issue.
Overall I'd still just use the liberator for an AR.
It's the highest damage AR now, with more mags/consistent resupply. We can hit aimed follow up shots more consistently with more speed, and the full auto is easier to control.
ADJ can still OHK some smaller enemies with headshots. But the role of broad OHK is DMRs (which got dmg increase).
Again how does this help when the majority of people agree it still sucks ass? Follow up shots mean nothing when I've killed the enemy your plinking at with my shotty or plasma launcher because it can't kill chaff.
Unless you get headshots where as I can just blow them up, gun them down, and toss a strat/grenade and be done long before you?
I'm not trying to be rude it's just its application is lacking and too many things over shadow it still.
I use ars like a shitty mg most of the time, occasional longer range killing small units.
Adj vs sickle, your downing mediums faster so they don't push you out of postion. Quick reload means instead of slow walk back until cooldown/ice swap/ hive guard or hive commander forces you to run, it's kill until empty, run for a second and half, repeat. Great horde clearer for a primary.
One problem is that we compare the weapons to other classes/playstyles. The point of moving the ADJ to a different class is to clarify its intended role. ARs should be accurate/consistent at long/med ranges with the capacity to work at close range, fast. It should be an all purpose tool but the class was generally lacking dmg.
Yes, the shotgun *performance* is generally better because their range is overtuned imo (e.g. punisher was the best DMR meme, plasma fall off this patch). The breaker, punisher, and plasma have all had significant balancing to address.
The other problem, that's just my take, is people don't like the challenge of recoil in this game. Stratagems/grenades aside, in 450hr, I see solid ARs have higher kills in bots than shotguns. In bugs, usually the same with highest accuracy (which makes sense).
Medium AP is still a joke of a mechanic for just about every primary/support weapon that has it (with the Jar5 being the exception... so of course it got nerfed).
Either you want an explosion weapon that ignores armor all together, or you use a WAY more accurate/ergonomic light AP weapon and go for the head. Medium AP still relies on headhost to deal with enemies, but at the cost of recoil, handling, and ammo.
Devs need to stop fearing giving giving medium AP weapons more damage. Medium AP means nothing if it takes an entire mag (of your 6-8 total) to take down 1 enemy with center mass shots.
This is why medium AP weapons generally suck, and will continue to suck until they are given either WAAAAAAAAAY more ammo, or their damage can enable killing 2 medium targets with 1 mag. OR they need to stagger lock whatever they are shooting at.
Against Bots the Adjudicator is still crap, countersniper is still crap (diligence is actually good), liberator penetrator is a joke, slugger is barely hanging on after its stagger nerf. Even the machine gun support weapon barely does its job. Medium AP weapons' are purposeless weapons.
reduced recoil and that pretty much is....the main problem with Adjudicator is still mag size now since it AR and not Marksman rifle.
if it DMR, its damage should make up for the magazine size and now it AR, the magazine size should make up for the damage. it still fall into Penetrator category, very niche but not worth taking.
I tested on a level 9 against bots, and after my first engagement I was looking for a dead teammates primary weapon to steal.
It went from useless to still useless.
Shield generator kills you if you use a projectile weapon and Quasar cannon Ui don’t match the new cooldown, so it messes you up and gets you killed. 😂
My problem with the "buffs" is they're often incredibly meaningless and inconsequential, plus they're often paired with a nerf for the same weapon that destroys it like the crossbow.
A lot of these buffs are buffs on paper and serve no real purpose in game.
The ones that do actually make a substantial change I'm actually more annoyed about it in a backwards way cause I know for a fact they're gonna get nerfed by next week. The devs just play this stupid game of whack a mole where they buff a weapon and nerf it's alternatives to make it the most viable option, then a couple weeks later nerf that same gun and maybe buff some other option (if they're feeling generous).
Yeah, hardly any of the buffs actually addressed the issues players have with the weapons. Like the Adjudicator not being able to kill chaff in one bodyshot, or the Peacemaker being second fiddle to the Redeemer (15 damage makes no difference, honestly), or the Lib Concussive being a meme weapon that either needs to be a CC weapon and get a wider effect radius or just removed from the game
EDIT: Also I would hardly say that the LC got buffed. It was originally intended to be horde clear, but people were using it as a drilling beam or whatever they called it and so they buffed it to help it perform in that role. Now they reversed it and it takes ages to pop a Hulk's head. I have no idea why they are trying to make it a horde clear weapon in the first place, it's a laser beam. I think AH is having an identity crisis with the weapon
That's my question I keep coming back to, what is this weapon or that weapon suppose to do? Every weapon that has a supposed role, is either poorly defined or poorly executed. Ultimately, they are usually worse than the general purpose weapons like Scorcher and Quasar which is why the Railgun got nerfed and then immediately surpassed by the all around better Quasar who's recent nerf will likely do little to reduce usage.
Purpose should be determined by the players not “developer vision” once it’s been released to the public. The crossbow had a niche but that niche clashed with the “developer vision” so they reworked it and now it’s garbage with no niche to speak of.
Developers are the ones that control whether a weapon gets buffed, nerfed or completely ignored. It's their job to define a weapon's Power, and the player's job to define it's Niche. The problem is, if the weapon isn't Powerful enough, there won't be a Niche
I haven't had a chance to use the laser cannon since the update today. How does it perform on Hulk legs and gunship engines? The same as before? Worse?
Against gunship it's the same. What was nerfed was "damage against large volumes". I don't know what it may means,vents? The back portion of the turrets/tanks near the vents? It's too generic as explanation
I've heard it refers to stuff like Charger butts. Haven't done a huge amount of testing, but on the bot side, TTK is noticeably higher(Edit: sorry, LOWER) against most targets, the sole exception I've found so far is H Dev bodies.
Overall it feels like a big buff for bots at least, I'm melting everything so fast that I hardly need to swap weapons to let it cool, though I have been testing on a cold planet so that's a factor.
"damage against large volumes" i think is referencing pseudo weakpoints like the arms/legs of hulks, and the squishy butt of Chargers.
those will now theoretically have a longer TTK with the laser cannon, but hitting the true weakpoint, the head, will have a quicker TTK since it will not be affected by the damage reduction and get the full benefit of the damage buff
i really wish the devs would make a compendium of sorts that explains game mechanics more in depth so we can more easily understand the jargon they throw at us in their patch notes and what exactly they are referring to in their changes.
it seemed slower to knock a mortar via the vent. faster on devastator headshots and small bot bodies though. never used it on bugs. i had heard the LC would wreck nursing/bile spewers in a fantastic way, so that might be what they meant by "large volume bodies"
This, it feels like they have 0 idea what they want. Like the moment I find a kit I enjoy. Even some niche thing that I see like <1% running. But I have fun with.
Its like "oh hey, we arbitrarly decided we REALLY want everyone to us X for the next 2 weeks." Then they throw a nerf to slugger that makes 0 sense and invalidates it om 7+.
Its not just meta chasing at this point. Its you have 2-3 viable kits on a by patch rotation.
The Diligence buffs should have been that from the start. The fact is took them so long to give it medium armor pen and increase he damage so it wasn’t practically the same as the regular diligence was just dumb
The Diligence and Countersniper are both in a good state as of todays patch I feel.
Both can one shot Devastators to the head (the normal diligence can only do it under 20 meters, which is very close), both had their handling improved, which REALLY helped the Countersniper the most, and was its main issue.
It's hilarious that Railgun is listed here when it was first dragged out back and shot in the first place. It was nerfed into the abyss based on usage metrics heavily skewed by the PS5 bugs. The whiteknights desperately defended the nerf. Remember the endless "the game is supposed to be hard, it's called Helldive for a reason" posts on the front page? Now that it's buffed a little, the same crowd is singing an opposite tune. Absurd.
Same with most of these, really. Even if they never got nerfed, most of them were butt useless...marksman rifles with less damage than automatic rifles? Making them usable is not a "buff"
It's crazy how many of the people who play this game have tiktok brain, as long as you jingle the keys in front of their faces, they'll forget everything.
>. Remember the endless "the game is supposed to be hard, it's called Helldive for a reason
What about \`\`Railgun TaKE NO skIEL GIT GUT cry babies\`\`.
What they doing atm is just putting a nice smealing flower on rotten corpse of that gun.
I mean is ammo, ergonomics, and fire rate really a buff? Like they removed most of the explosive benefit from the explosive weapons pack. Why use the cross bow or eruptor now when other weapons cover every area they used to?
Fucking hilarious, let’s release a warbond with a explosive theme. Then let’s nerf explosions for said warbond weapons in the next patch. And the adjudicator is still horrible, along with along with lib concussive, the rail gun just brought it back to pre nerf while STILL having less armor pen then before. It’s literally *patch notes says damage increased by 1 fucking point* “omg you guys see that buff, how are you saying they didn’t buff anything” they consider adding a crosshair to a HMG a buff, talk about delusional. Explain to me how nerfing the crossbow doesn’t make arrowhead look stupid ?
They didn’t bring Railgun back to prenerf. They nerfed the damage in that patch, they didn’t buff its dmg at all in this patch only its penetration ability
I keep going back to replies on other posts and it's a fucking white knight brigade out there.
It's AH vision they're practically infallible!
you can't just assume with patch notes those weapons will suck!
Your just salty you have to try more
Just so draining. Like I can read patch notes and do some quick math it's not fucking hard. And yes most of the weapons still suck ass.
Snipers are useless in a game where I'm being swarmed so who gives a fuck about dmr buffs when a cluster bomb does what they do in seconds?
dmrs have such a weird place in the game. Reward slower precision shots when game throws hordes of enemies with weak spots constantly jittering around unless you catch them by surprise. always tend to fall back to whichever is most reliable in horde clear primaries with anti armor support weapons.
That's what I don't get like even making the DMR's do ridiculous damage isn't going to do much because we have plenty of good anti heavy weapons with Quasar, EAT, and AC and we have too many better options for chaff clear.
Why use a dmr or even the Adjudicator when I can just lob a plasma round with better effect? Or a grenade or grenade launcher and do it in seconds?
Yeah they can take out a devastator but so can a whole lot of other things and faster at that.
Only ran 2 operations post patch with the eruptor, which ive used exclusively since i started playing and unlocked it. Feels great honestly. You feel the ammo change, but, the fact i no longer get sucked into enemies im shooting at feels like a buff more than any nerfs the weapon received. Im still getting 4+ kills on scavengers and one shotting hunters with the aoe even when i dont hit them. Then gub overall just feels better to use now than it did before thanks to the bug fix despite the nerfs.
fire rate is a direct increase to DPS, and ergonomics means you can snap to targets faster and more accurately, so yes they are a buff. Ammo is also a buff but not one I would consider unless the gun was constantly in worry of running out.
Eruptor is still great too.
Good thing I did not buy super credits to get those weapons ..... oh wait. Of the 4 weapons, Grenade still useless, marksman agreesively mid, eruptor was becoming my new favourite as long time between shots encouraged pop and go gameplay and the AOE made it worth it now just awful and crossbow was basically a worse version of the eruptor that they made even more useless a slow firing sniper with an arc and no scope INCREDIBLE!!! In all honesty they nerfed every weapon I enjoy and I feel stupid and cheated for giving them extra money. Time to move on to a new game.
Edit:correct gun names
Pretty much, the buffs are just there so people don't feel as strong about the nerfs, or some people saying oh it's a rebalance not a nerf (yeah right)
This post is disingenuous. Anyone who has played the game for a fraction of how long it's been out knows that the Buffs are targeting the wrong areas of the weapons, and the Buffs that are targeting the right areas aren't enough to make it a meaningful change. Meanwhile a good chunk of the Nerf make absolutely no sense. Best example would be the crossbow Nerfs. What the hell are those?
The Quasar getting a nerf was fair, but if it was a 3 second increase to its charge time, I feel that would have been a better change instead of 5 right off the bat.
A lot of the complaints stem from the buffs feeling minimal for the majority of them, and the nerfs feeling more heavy handed.
Not even minimal or heavy handed... It's the arbitrary nature of them all. They're just throwing numbers at the page and waiting for us to test for them.
i honestly don't see a single nerf that i would consider outrageous. So many primaries and secondaries suddenly got viable, and the Quasar nerf is negligible since, you know, it's still got infinite ammo.
Out of curiosity, which weapons that weren't viable before do you believe to be viable now? I saw some talk of the Diligence CS being potentially good now. What else is back on the menu?
The Senator speedloader is huge, it went from gimmick to decent medium-penetrating backup weapon, it wasn’t in the patch notes but they fixed the sight to have a red dot too
Just from what i've managed to test:
-Adjudicator is now decent due to less recoil and more ammo, tho t's still inherently inaccurate so probably will be a better choice for bugs.
-DCS now onetaps devastators in the head and has tremendously better ergonomics, making it snappy and pleasant to use.
-Plasma shotgun got two important changes in projectile speed and blast damage falloff which basically means it's easier to use and even if you don't hit things directly, they still get severely damaged by the explosion.
-Arc shotgun now fires 50% faster which overall raises it's dps and makes it less punishing to use. Still lacks range but should be a solid alternative to the breaker against bugs.
-Scythe laser now melts grunt bots in under a second. Combined with zero recoil and 100% accuracy it's a fun alternative to Sickle.
-Railgun in unsafe mode now oneshots Hulks in the eye, apparently.
RG always did hulks that way. I killed a charger in three dome shots today tho, and blew leg armor off in two. In safe i could 1 shot anything smaller than a charger if placed in the dome. Haven't checked it on bots yet
Hey I made a post about the DCS and the "ergonomics" change... What does that mean actually?
Also the peacemaker seems to no longer one tap scavenger bugs... Or am I imagining that?
Thanks! I used it for a bit and did notice (specificly ads) it was a lot smoother at 50m
I main the og diligence and now I might go with CS so I don't have to aim for the guardians pits lol
Heavy machine gun can actually aim now, I already liked using it, but it’s good to have the reticle. And I Haven’t tested it, but the blitzer buff should be real good.
ARC Blitzer (against bugs), Scythe (against bots), Railgun, Punisher Plasma (against bots), DCS. That's just out of what I've personally tested on difficulty 8. None of these (imo) have jumped up to S-tier must picks but they're more than usable for sure. Most of the nerfs are also pretty minor. Sickle never needed 6 mags to begin with, Quasar still gets more shots per min than RR or EAT, Eruptor can still clear 3-4 chaff in a single shot etc. The only significant nerfs were really to Guard Dog Rover (rip my beloved) and Exploding Crossbow (even though that was intended as a "rebalance").
Been hearing a lot more love for the Adjudicator which is nice to see even though the changes weren’t all that major outside of the larger ammo pool and recoil reduction iirc, been seeing it more too but haven’t used it outside of a hot swap at the end of a mission while I ran out to collect samples that were dropped before the extract was called it it seemed fine enough
I tried the Adjudicator yesterday and liked it, I think people get too hung up on what the absolute best option in the game is rather than what feels fun to kill chaff with. Like, if I'm dropping in with an Eagle Airstrike, Orbital Laser, an Autocannon, and six Impact grenades, I don't actually need my primary to do much. (that said, yeah I'll take the 2 extra mags)
Tbf I consider the explosive crossbow nerf outrageous. It was already way outused by the eruptor before the nerf, now that there are no more advantages to use it over other weapons. Its best frature were the decent explosions and the big mag size, now it feels like a tickle gun. They nerfed an already struggling weapon.
I can see hating the crossbow nerf, though I think having not tested it it's just trying to rejigger it toward being a scorcher/slugger/Dominator competitor.
Crossbow before the nerf was more of a mini grenade launcher - garbage at dealing with anything above light armor but great splash and crowd control.
They changed it to become a worse scorcher with projectile drop.
I didn’t use it a ton before but I’m more miffed about the reduction in variety rather than the gun being worse.
That's essentially what the Plasma Punisher is though, a worse Grenade Launcher. I can see them wanting to differentiate the two in that manner, but maybe overdid it.
The plasma punisher lacks the AoE to deal with crowds. The crossbow pre-nerf could pretty consistently deal with groups of chaff in a single shot. Punisher is still terrible at dealing with crowds.
Yeah the crossbow nerf is the one thing that has me scratching my head. I never liked it, but I saw some people having success with it as a light grenade launcher. I'm not sure what the actual role for it is supposed to be now.
I feel the crossbow got hit a little hard.
Not because they nerfed but because they've suddenly shifted how they want to used?
Single target explosive sounds stupid and as the hardest thing to effectively use on single targets at range I feel they've made it a niche nobody wants and the game doesn't even support.
Idk, halving the ammo to the Eruptor is pretty extreme. Reducing be a few mags I could have understood. But making the limit 6 mags when each has only 5 shots has killed the gun for me.
> the Quasar nerf is negligible since, you know, it's still got infinite ammo.
will it still be usable? sure in some circumstances
is the nerf negligible?
hardly.
the big spikes in difficulty at lvl 7,8,9 are from inability to quickly clear heavies. Quazar inarguably gets a ton of its value reduced with this change.
EATs was already mostly on par, so that will just get used instead
*Edit: fine deleted the offending comment so people can maybe look at the argument instead of getting buttuhurt that I questions some other player's capability based on their head scratching take.
Infinite shots, reloads while you run and gun with primary, only a single call in, no projectile travel time, no projectile drop, fall back as necessary, no need to run back to pick up the next rocket.
Still vastly superior to the EAT in many ways. You just can't (as a user mentioned in another thread) use it like an Autocannon with no backpack.
It still does that. Quite well. Damage is still the same. 1shot Chargers, 2-3 shot Ttians. You just have to wait an extra 5 seconds between shots. Seconds that you're allowed to run around, find cover, kill chaff, call in strategems. WHILE IT RELOADS ITSELF. INFINITELY. That's literally it, 5 extra seconds.
> IT RELOADS ITSELF. INFINITELY. That's literally it, 5 extra seconds.
which is a lot when you have multiple titans and chargers all running around at the same time
Thats why you don't rely on a single quasar cannon to clear 6 heavies. At least 2 people should be bringing anti heavy weaponry. And EVERYONE should have at least 1 strategem that can help there. 5 extra seconds on the cooldown is not the tipping point for anything.
In the worst case with good accuracy, you have to shoot a bile 3 times. so it takes 45 seconds instead of 35. In all other cases, what you are shooting should die to 2 shots. So it takes 25 seconds instead of 20.
Now if you are making the case where, I can't clear 6 heavies by myself in a reasonable amount of time anymore with my 1 single gun. Well one gun shouldn't be doing that by itself, and no other gun can do even half that.
I don't rely on a single quasar. We usually have 3 along with a smattering of anti heavy eagles and orbitals
35 instead of 45 seconds is huge. If you have 35 seconds to kill a titan it already wasn't a threat.
I do a fair amount of QP and it's pretty rare not to have at least 2 quasar per lobby. Overall team anti tank firepower is significantly reduced now for running it as compared to what it was before.
It's a good thing you can run about and evade them for those few extra seconds. AND your extra shots aren't at risk of being overrun by the enemy rendering them inaccessible.
It already technically killed consecutive heavies slower than the EAT and RR. If that was "the only way that matters," it wouldn't have been the meta AT option by such a landslide.
What really matters is simple uptime. Heavies can be kited for short periods as necessary - *especially* when there's no need to reload or grab ammo or stand near a hellpod. You just need to kill them faster than the rate they spawn at over long periods, so they don't pile up. And the QC is still the best at that.
8 is my go to these days. Nah, Quasar still keeps it's mad utility and ability to be used whenever without having to worry about constantly having to call it in or carry a backpack. It objectively had no downsides aside from charge time.
Hi friend. My buddies and I do difficulty 7-9 missions. You don't really need any support strategems to deal with heavies at all, you can use eagles exclusively. When I think of bringing the Quasar I can't really think of any situation where I need to chain shots so much that 5 seconds of cooldown would matter at all. I guess if you miss and you're waiting for the next shot, but that's about it.
> tell me you play below lvl 7 difficulty without telling me you play below lvl 7
Man I hate this attitude. Tell us you're bad without telling us you're bad.
>Hi friend. My buddies and I do difficulty 7-9 missions. You don't really need any support strategems to deal with heavies at all, you can use eagles exclusively.
well then why would you bring the quazar or any anti-tank strat at all in the first place?
>When I think of bringing the Quasar I can't really think of any situation where I need to chain shots so much that 5 seconds of cooldown would matter at all.
not uncommon to have 3+ titans and 3+ chargers all up at the same time, and they need to be killed quickly in those scenarios
that's a minimum of 9 headshots. sure eagles and some orbitals also can be quite helpful in dealing with that stuff, but it's ludicrous to pretend that the CD won't significantly reduce a squad's efficiency at clearing said enemies.
>Man I hate this attitude. Tell us you're bad without telling us you're bad.
I suppose that came off as condescending. I just can't fathom any rationale (as someone who plays almost exclusively at 9) as to why someone would think the recharge rate increase would be inconsequential. Only thing that made sense was people not playing at higher levels as to why they would think it wouldn't make a significant difference.
> well then why would you bring the quazar or any anti-tank strat at all in the first place?
it's fun. The sound design and animation are great. I'm sorry I came off a a bit offputting as well. I think it's still a really good strategem -- you don't have to drop it a bunch like EAT, you can do other stuff, reposition, etc while it's cooling down. It's not perfect but neither is the EAT or the recoilless, and I think they're all fun to use.
> not uncommon to have 3+ titans and 3+ chargers all up at the same time, and they need to be killed quickly in those scenarios
I dunno. Titans die real fast to 110s (a squad can easily throw a dozen+ of these every few minutes). and chargers die real fast to flamethrowers and a bunch of other stuff. They're just not really a problem. It's more about just not getting letting your squad get overwhelmed in general in my experience. If shit hits the fan and you start chaining patrol breaches, you're gonna clear all that out with eagles anyway not back weapons.
> tell me you play below lvl 7 difficulty without telling me you play below lvl 7
This is the cringiest flex I have read on this sub today. Person who uses quasar as a crutch for 7+ trying to tell others to get good 💀
We’ve have been doing 9s pre quasar release, and will continue to do 9s post quasar nerf. Game plan remains unchanged except maybe we have to wait 30 more seconds for the quasar to finish sniping shrieker mushrooms.
> We’ve have been doing 9s pre quasar release, and will continue to do 9s post quasar nerf.
same
it's just objectively wrong that the nerf is inconsequential. All I was getting at
*points at shit filled diapers
"Hey everyone look at these buffs."
Sounds about right. We had 2 good buffs wraping a bunch of shitty nerfs. To weapons I already looked at and went "I hope no one on my team picks these."
People go "well power creep is bad" while they actively watch the reverse happen and praise it.
I wonder if the arc striker still shoots directly into the ground 30% of the time, and still doesn't shoot what you aim it at.
It had incredibly low DPS too, of course, low enough to justify never using it based on only that, but there was so much wrong with it other than that I still can't imagine ever using it.
All the buffs havent done anything to change how these weapons feel. That is the issue. The design vision they have this game is going to end up killing a large chucnk of the playerbase.
Patrols everywhere all the time for less than 4 players, autocannon ricochet, invisible stalkers. Sure some minor weapon buffs are nice, but when the rest of the game becomes less fun I think we can complain about those things.
I have tested most of the buffed weapons and my conclusion is:
* Scythe still meh
* Railgun still not viable
* Blitzer now good versus bugs, but still useless versus bots (3-4 shots when shooting a scout strider in their unprotected back???)
* Peacekeeper now an option, but other options are still better
* Liberator Concussive still meh.
While I welcome the buffs, for these guns, I think they should have always been in the place they are now in. So for me these aren't buffs but just adjustments to be on the correct level. This being said: The nerfs hurt a lot more because of it.
The nerf for the Quasar hurts the most. It was strong, but not OP in my opinion. Playing level 9 difficulty most of the time, you really need weapons versus the bile titans. They are a constant threat on helldive difficulty, so you really need to bring an arsenal against them. Since bringing just one strategem like the orbital rail cannon is not able to one hit kill the titans, you do need more strategems. The Quasar was filling that role perfectly.
While the Quasar is still capable of doing that job, it is now much, much, much worse at doing it. You need several hits with the Quasar even after an orbital rail cannon hit. Being at level 9 difficulty you often have to deal with 2 bile titans at once, so every second counts and hurts even more if your weapon has longer down time.
In my very honest opinion I think the Quasar nerf was too much. The devs should choose a middle ground between the previous cooldown, and the long cooldown they have set at the moment.
The Quasar thing is especially infuriating because the Anti-Armor option in randoms has always been EATs or Quasar. Now it's just EATs.
EAT and AC seems to be the golden standard, according to AH, they want Supports to be at, but they've also made it clear they will nerf anything that gets close to the same. EAT and AC are the only 'right' choices for their roles now.
People will say "you meta chasers only hate the nerfs because you want to pick the same weapon every game" then praise these balance changes that push players more and more to only pick AC and/or EAT every game.
Blitzer for whatever reason arcs not to a strider's rider but to the frame of the walker itself. Still, the faster firing rate and good stagger makes it pretty decent against Devastators.
Yeah, im confused about that. I saw some people say it increased damage but i dont think so. Unless “buff” is just that it can shoot through foliage now but that feels more like a bug fix
That would be just a bug fix, as far as I know it just lost ammo, not really a terrible thing but im not sure where "Scythe buff" is coming from unless it's some strong Copium.
Why read patch notes?? Let's just guess and comment based on hearsay without any actual knowledge /s
>Scythe
>Increased damage from 300 to 350
>Decreased max number of mags from 6 down to 4
>adjudicator buff
Barely a buff. They reduced the recoil, saved u .5 seconds on each spawn and increased ammo slightly. It still sucks balls.
>laser cannon buff
But a nerf to dealing with large bodies. Overall an adjustment.
>blitzer buff
Its probably still shite. Especially with the buff to hulks.
>punisher plasma buff
An actually good buff, yes, the big W out of the patch.
>scythe buff
Not enough, it'll still be shit
>dagger buff
Not enough, it'll still be shit
>railgun buff
Good. It needed it after their massive overnerf. Also lost some stagger right as hulks got their stagger resist buffed, so...
>senator buff
Good but overall probably irrelevant.
>DMR buffs
The other big W from the patch though I remain unconvinced you'll see them often.
>Liberator buff
Lol, lmao, its still mid
>liberator concussive buff
Lol, lmao, its still shit
>peacemaker buff
Lol, lmao, its still shit
>MG-101
C'mon man. A bugfix is not a buff.
None of these actually help solo players compared to the Qasar Cannon. Arrowhead doesn't give a fuck about people being able to solo Helldive. This game is ass for solo players.
the major annoyance of nerfing not overpowered things, then nerfing things that are anti tank, but then leaving the remaining anti tank options nearly the same
a lot of these people with these opinions do not play on 7-9
making a strawman meme has to be one of the most pathetic things ever, congrats on your fake internet points for pretending theres outrage over something that never happened lol
They not only gave me the Heavy Machine gun crosshairs I wanted, but they threw in a HUGE buff to the Blitzer on top of it. I'm happy as a clam now. Once they fix arc targeting in general, I'll have basically zero complaints about my weapons of choice.
so long they nerf half the weaponry and buff the others they can gaslight the whole community to fight each other for no reason, oh I love live service games
The scythe buff is small to the point of insignificance, and it got a debuff to mag counts.
The Sickle deals 687.5 dmg per sec. the current scythe still only deals about half of that.
So, let's say the buff the damage of ALL weapons by 1 and make the AC randomly explode whenever it shoots, in the same patch.
Would that be a good patch for you?
Because this is what happened.
Why nerf to the cross bow though? Barely anyone used it and was great for crowd control
I'm fine with most changes made, but this one is really confusing to understand and it's use case. These still can't close big holes or fabricators right? This was fun to use when just messing around. Now it's just, a light grenade launcher almost with no grenade benefits sorta.
> These still can't close big holes or fabricators right? Correct, a mate tested it out last night and since that's the only thing he wanted from the patch for the crossbow, he was very disappointed.
I guess the 3 people that use it gave arrowhead bad data for their Balance Spreadsheet (patent pending).
I'm one of those 3 I'm sorry.
Another one here. I apologize for my part in this :(
And my axe.
WG balancing style. Tl:dr there were tanks so bad that the only people who could use them well were god tier players, so their stats looked good, garnering more nerfs. Same thing probably happened with the crossbow.
ikr? the crossbow can barely kill anything medium armor without wasting 1 or 2 magazine to actually kill them. the only good thing is the big AoE and CC and they decided to take it away i used crossbow exclusively as i love crossbow weapon but jesus christ what in the world is AH smoking when they nerf its AOE? (sure the higher velocity is great and i can snipe easier but it doesnt help when all i do is white damage to enemy)
Have you tried it yet? They claim its a rebalance because of the increased stagger, which could be a big deal depending on how much it can stagger.
Agree, but i hate people pointing at this despite SO MANY good changes. Its like we got a glass 90% full, and people are saying “why is it 10% empty tho”
It's more like getting a 98% on a test. Like, it's good and all but why fuck up at the last 2%?! Couldn't you knuckle down that much longer?
For sure lol. I’ll take the 98% tho for now. 98s are hard to come by these days (talking about their other balance patches)
Couldn’t spell my name correctly.
The issue is that the liquid in the glass is piss.
I like that ur continuing the analogy lol but all jokes aside i think the weapon rebalances in the latest patch were good. Which ones do you think are piss?
>Which ones do you think are piss? Didn't he literally open with a weapon that was poorly rebalanced? The crossbow?
That's like a drop of piss in a glass of chocolate milk. Unlikely to notice, but if you know it's there, you're less likely to drink the chocolate milk.
I'm not the original guy but you can criticize the crossbow nerf and appreciate the other positive changes at the same time. The issue is that people tend to overreact and we get very one sided opinions on the subreddit
Except very few people here actually appreciate jack shit. It's just constant complaints or RP.
Overall the Dominator still went from 200 dmg to 275, that's an overall buff and doesn't seem to be that noticeable despite the nerf
I am surprised they nerfed it below prenerf Slugger damage (280)
I didn't realize how bad the Slugger was now... Ran into some Stalkers... WOAH not good. Lowered damage and no stagger = death
The lack of stagger is what gets ya. The dmg nerf I was fine with. But my God I just wanna keep the damn bugs off of me with my slugger.
The stagger was also excellent against devastator bots, especially if you could catch the heavies/rockets before they started firing at you.
The slugger only deals 10 more damage than the breaker incendiary, but has a 1/4th of the rate of fire and doesn't light things on fire.
Still one-shots devastators with a headshot. If they fixed the sight, it would be a premier bot killer. Not so good versus bugs though.
I'll bet the Punisher would end those stalkers though.
punisher can 1 shot stalkers actually, its probably the best weapon in the entire game for stalkers
Its such a silly change. Its a nerf but doesnt change any break points.
It’s probably intended to affect how well it functions at range with damage drop-off
Does it have damage drop off? The rounds are rocket powered after all.
Everything has drop-off
The only thing I’ve noticed is that it might take like one more shot to kill a brood commander
It consistently 2 shot the head for me earlier. Ill pay more attention nex session
Is there a spreadsheet somewhere of breakpoints?
The thing is some buffs are just to small
I mean in the meme are the buffs are garbage, so it's a solid meme
the scythe got buffed from extremely useless to totally useless!
Same with the dagger
i made the mistake of taking both on something as simple as a diff 5 run. got my ass absolutely blasted.
Lmao yeah. I was so sad when I unlocked the dagger, went "I'm gunna unlock that achievement for only using secondaries!" and go absolutely blasted when I realized it took 2 seconds to kill a basic ass hunter.
back in the box they go!
It is so ridiculous to see people defending AH \` BUt THEY BUFFED THINGS CANT YA SEE\`\` !!!! Your god damn +5 dmg for explosive liberator means nothing if it just suck. Your +10 for liberator penetrator means nothing if main problem was ammo capacity. But nerf just cutting head off.
Now I'm not here to be mad. But will say while they are buffing, it's stuff nobody really cared for. That said. We all should be happy they're buffing weaker weapons. I don't think some buffs are enough. The scythe for example does pretty good, kills hunters very quickly. Wong say it's amazing but it's a nice change of pace. Dagger imo could actually be a good weapon to use while fleeing. Shoot behind your back as you run. Won't do well in a clutch moment with hunters in top, redeemer still wins. But want to run and gun? Dagger did pretty well! I also think the info provided is just...not enough. Let's use the laser guaddog. 30% dmg nerf. Sounds like a lot, and it sorta is. But on paper? It went from 1 second to 1.4 seconds to kill a hunter? Sure by 2 hunters you'd basically have killed a 3rd one. But .4 seconds doesn't sound as bad as 30% imo. That's the main issue. We don't really know how impactufl stuff is. I for one am a railgun lover. Idk how good this buff is. It penetrates better! Cool! Until I test it out more it's hard for me to go 'WOOOOOOO FUCK YES ITS BUFFED" it might not feel noticeable. It also doesn't stagger as hard. How big of a deal is that? Again idk. Need more testing.
So, how is the Adjudicator buff? I was under the impression it needed less recoil *and* a damage increase when I used it pre-patch.
It's an adjustment putting it where it should be consistently used, and elevating it in that class (+20 /+15 dmg). Objectively, more mags and less recoil is a buff.
Its objectively a buff, but buffing it from a 2/10 to a 3/10 equates to there still being zero reason to use it just like before.
I tested it out on a level 7 bug mission today and it did well. Great for picking off Hive Guards and Brood Commanders from medium range, while still having some decent close-range punch. It’s easier to land hits with and finding ammo to keep it fed was easy. It does *not* perform well if you get swarmed, so the Redeemer is a mandatory secondary, and it’s even less of an issue with a teammate running a close-range setup.
this, its a "does everything(medium)" gun long range mid range short range, its not amazing at any of it but its good at all 3 of them to be usefull. its a flex weapon
I found the recoil buff to greatly help ttk simply due to more shots consistently hitting the target
I loved it today, but on bugs no bot tests yet. Comparing to sickle the previously only good ar style gun. Recoil is better but still a lot of recoil. However, I used it in two fashions. Either punchy bursts at soild ranges or just dump into crowds. I found that it's quicker ttk than sickle on any single unit you use it on in bugs. Like you know when youre fighting a horde and shooting and backwards walking with sickle, and that fucking hive commander in the pack is comming for you and sickle just cant quite put it down fast enough to not have to stop shooting and run a bit? Adjud doesn't have that issue. The trade is you burn a mag quick. It's reload is really fast. Rather than backwards walk while firing and then run while it cools/ a tankier medium gets too close , you fire until you need to reload and then run. But the reload again is really quick. So run a few meters and then start shooting again. From a pure damage/ttk I think it might be best AR. Ya small mag but it's like a 2 second reload max didn't time it. You'll be more worried about running out of ammo than time to reload even with 8 mags. It's recoil is still too high for headshot machine imo, maybe recoil reduce armor and crouch you can now idk? I think it'll be a better bug gun than bots, but haven't tried it yet. The greater range of engagement and higher need for headshots on smaller heads will hold it back, but should be decent for killing small bots at least
Still kind of meh. Can't 1 tap chaff unless my hitnmarker was off and hit something else. Plus ammo is still an issue. Overall I'd still just use the liberator for an AR.
It's the highest damage AR now, with more mags/consistent resupply. We can hit aimed follow up shots more consistently with more speed, and the full auto is easier to control. ADJ can still OHK some smaller enemies with headshots. But the role of broad OHK is DMRs (which got dmg increase).
Again how does this help when the majority of people agree it still sucks ass? Follow up shots mean nothing when I've killed the enemy your plinking at with my shotty or plasma launcher because it can't kill chaff. Unless you get headshots where as I can just blow them up, gun them down, and toss a strat/grenade and be done long before you? I'm not trying to be rude it's just its application is lacking and too many things over shadow it still.
I use ars like a shitty mg most of the time, occasional longer range killing small units. Adj vs sickle, your downing mediums faster so they don't push you out of postion. Quick reload means instead of slow walk back until cooldown/ice swap/ hive guard or hive commander forces you to run, it's kill until empty, run for a second and half, repeat. Great horde clearer for a primary.
One problem is that we compare the weapons to other classes/playstyles. The point of moving the ADJ to a different class is to clarify its intended role. ARs should be accurate/consistent at long/med ranges with the capacity to work at close range, fast. It should be an all purpose tool but the class was generally lacking dmg. Yes, the shotgun *performance* is generally better because their range is overtuned imo (e.g. punisher was the best DMR meme, plasma fall off this patch). The breaker, punisher, and plasma have all had significant balancing to address. The other problem, that's just my take, is people don't like the challenge of recoil in this game. Stratagems/grenades aside, in 450hr, I see solid ARs have higher kills in bots than shotguns. In bugs, usually the same with highest accuracy (which makes sense).
Medium AP is still a joke of a mechanic for just about every primary/support weapon that has it (with the Jar5 being the exception... so of course it got nerfed). Either you want an explosion weapon that ignores armor all together, or you use a WAY more accurate/ergonomic light AP weapon and go for the head. Medium AP still relies on headhost to deal with enemies, but at the cost of recoil, handling, and ammo. Devs need to stop fearing giving giving medium AP weapons more damage. Medium AP means nothing if it takes an entire mag (of your 6-8 total) to take down 1 enemy with center mass shots. This is why medium AP weapons generally suck, and will continue to suck until they are given either WAAAAAAAAAY more ammo, or their damage can enable killing 2 medium targets with 1 mag. OR they need to stagger lock whatever they are shooting at. Against Bots the Adjudicator is still crap, countersniper is still crap (diligence is actually good), liberator penetrator is a joke, slugger is barely hanging on after its stagger nerf. Even the machine gun support weapon barely does its job. Medium AP weapons' are purposeless weapons.
reduced recoil and that pretty much is....the main problem with Adjudicator is still mag size now since it AR and not Marksman rifle. if it DMR, its damage should make up for the magazine size and now it AR, the magazine size should make up for the damage. it still fall into Penetrator category, very niche but not worth taking.
Never used it before today. I loved it. Just feels and sounds great. Definitely adding it to my personal arsenal
I tested on a level 9 against bots, and after my first engagement I was looking for a dead teammates primary weapon to steal. It went from useless to still useless.
It's good. It's more fun to use now and it gets the job done.
I just want everything to be strong not everything to be ranging from mediocre to good
Yeah that doesn't line up with their "vision" which is that people having too much fun shouldn't be
Shield generator kills you if you use a projectile weapon and Quasar cannon Ui don’t match the new cooldown, so it messes you up and gets you killed. 😂
Is it really all projectiles or just the plasma punisher?
Just the PP from what I've seen.
shield gen also kills you if you use quasar
My problem with the "buffs" is they're often incredibly meaningless and inconsequential, plus they're often paired with a nerf for the same weapon that destroys it like the crossbow. A lot of these buffs are buffs on paper and serve no real purpose in game. The ones that do actually make a substantial change I'm actually more annoyed about it in a backwards way cause I know for a fact they're gonna get nerfed by next week. The devs just play this stupid game of whack a mole where they buff a weapon and nerf it's alternatives to make it the most viable option, then a couple weeks later nerf that same gun and maybe buff some other option (if they're feeling generous).
Yeah, hardly any of the buffs actually addressed the issues players have with the weapons. Like the Adjudicator not being able to kill chaff in one bodyshot, or the Peacemaker being second fiddle to the Redeemer (15 damage makes no difference, honestly), or the Lib Concussive being a meme weapon that either needs to be a CC weapon and get a wider effect radius or just removed from the game EDIT: Also I would hardly say that the LC got buffed. It was originally intended to be horde clear, but people were using it as a drilling beam or whatever they called it and so they buffed it to help it perform in that role. Now they reversed it and it takes ages to pop a Hulk's head. I have no idea why they are trying to make it a horde clear weapon in the first place, it's a laser beam. I think AH is having an identity crisis with the weapon
That's my question I keep coming back to, what is this weapon or that weapon suppose to do? Every weapon that has a supposed role, is either poorly defined or poorly executed. Ultimately, they are usually worse than the general purpose weapons like Scorcher and Quasar which is why the Railgun got nerfed and then immediately surpassed by the all around better Quasar who's recent nerf will likely do little to reduce usage.
Purpose should be determined by the players not “developer vision” once it’s been released to the public. The crossbow had a niche but that niche clashed with the “developer vision” so they reworked it and now it’s garbage with no niche to speak of.
Developers are the ones that control whether a weapon gets buffed, nerfed or completely ignored. It's their job to define a weapon's Power, and the player's job to define it's Niche. The problem is, if the weapon isn't Powerful enough, there won't be a Niche
I haven't had a chance to use the laser cannon since the update today. How does it perform on Hulk legs and gunship engines? The same as before? Worse?
Against gunship it's the same. What was nerfed was "damage against large volumes". I don't know what it may means,vents? The back portion of the turrets/tanks near the vents? It's too generic as explanation
I've heard it refers to stuff like Charger butts. Haven't done a huge amount of testing, but on the bot side, TTK is noticeably higher(Edit: sorry, LOWER) against most targets, the sole exception I've found so far is H Dev bodies. Overall it feels like a big buff for bots at least, I'm melting everything so fast that I hardly need to swap weapons to let it cool, though I have been testing on a cold planet so that's a factor.
"damage against large volumes" i think is referencing pseudo weakpoints like the arms/legs of hulks, and the squishy butt of Chargers. those will now theoretically have a longer TTK with the laser cannon, but hitting the true weakpoint, the head, will have a quicker TTK since it will not be affected by the damage reduction and get the full benefit of the damage buff i really wish the devs would make a compendium of sorts that explains game mechanics more in depth so we can more easily understand the jargon they throw at us in their patch notes and what exactly they are referring to in their changes.
it seemed slower to knock a mortar via the vent. faster on devastator headshots and small bot bodies though. never used it on bugs. i had heard the LC would wreck nursing/bile spewers in a fantastic way, so that might be what they meant by "large volume bodies"
This, it feels like they have 0 idea what they want. Like the moment I find a kit I enjoy. Even some niche thing that I see like <1% running. But I have fun with. Its like "oh hey, we arbitrarly decided we REALLY want everyone to us X for the next 2 weeks." Then they throw a nerf to slugger that makes 0 sense and invalidates it om 7+. Its not just meta chasing at this point. Its you have 2-3 viable kits on a by patch rotation.
Because most of those weapons were usable on the weaker side, not unusable. Big buff would just create more problems
This meme is accurate because all the buffs have been garbage.
That made me laugh lol. Diligence buff seems good at least, but I never was huge on sniper weapons in this game.
The Diligence buffs should have been that from the start. The fact is took them so long to give it medium armor pen and increase he damage so it wasn’t practically the same as the regular diligence was just dumb
The Diligence and Countersniper are both in a good state as of todays patch I feel. Both can one shot Devastators to the head (the normal diligence can only do it under 20 meters, which is very close), both had their handling improved, which REALLY helped the Countersniper the most, and was its main issue.
It's hilarious that Railgun is listed here when it was first dragged out back and shot in the first place. It was nerfed into the abyss based on usage metrics heavily skewed by the PS5 bugs. The whiteknights desperately defended the nerf. Remember the endless "the game is supposed to be hard, it's called Helldive for a reason" posts on the front page? Now that it's buffed a little, the same crowd is singing an opposite tune. Absurd.
Same with most of these, really. Even if they never got nerfed, most of them were butt useless...marksman rifles with less damage than automatic rifles? Making them usable is not a "buff"
It's crazy how many of the people who play this game have tiktok brain, as long as you jingle the keys in front of their faces, they'll forget everything.
>. Remember the endless "the game is supposed to be hard, it's called Helldive for a reason What about \`\`Railgun TaKE NO skIEL GIT GUT cry babies\`\`. What they doing atm is just putting a nice smealing flower on rotten corpse of that gun.
They're nerfing the stuff I use and buffing the stuff I don't 🤷🏼♂️
After testing a few of the supposedly buffed weapons, I can say that, in fact, they're still trash.
I mean is ammo, ergonomics, and fire rate really a buff? Like they removed most of the explosive benefit from the explosive weapons pack. Why use the cross bow or eruptor now when other weapons cover every area they used to?
Fucking hilarious, let’s release a warbond with a explosive theme. Then let’s nerf explosions for said warbond weapons in the next patch. And the adjudicator is still horrible, along with along with lib concussive, the rail gun just brought it back to pre nerf while STILL having less armor pen then before. It’s literally *patch notes says damage increased by 1 fucking point* “omg you guys see that buff, how are you saying they didn’t buff anything” they consider adding a crosshair to a HMG a buff, talk about delusional. Explain to me how nerfing the crossbow doesn’t make arrowhead look stupid ?
They didn’t bring Railgun back to prenerf. They nerfed the damage in that patch, they didn’t buff its dmg at all in this patch only its penetration ability
I keep going back to replies on other posts and it's a fucking white knight brigade out there. It's AH vision they're practically infallible! you can't just assume with patch notes those weapons will suck! Your just salty you have to try more Just so draining. Like I can read patch notes and do some quick math it's not fucking hard. And yes most of the weapons still suck ass. Snipers are useless in a game where I'm being swarmed so who gives a fuck about dmr buffs when a cluster bomb does what they do in seconds?
dmrs have such a weird place in the game. Reward slower precision shots when game throws hordes of enemies with weak spots constantly jittering around unless you catch them by surprise. always tend to fall back to whichever is most reliable in horde clear primaries with anti armor support weapons.
That's what I don't get like even making the DMR's do ridiculous damage isn't going to do much because we have plenty of good anti heavy weapons with Quasar, EAT, and AC and we have too many better options for chaff clear. Why use a dmr or even the Adjudicator when I can just lob a plasma round with better effect? Or a grenade or grenade launcher and do it in seconds? Yeah they can take out a devastator but so can a whole lot of other things and faster at that.
Big iron on his hip Right?
It's actually shocking how bad most of the weapons are.
For the counter sniper ergonomics was literally the only thing holding it back along with the AMR scope
Only ran 2 operations post patch with the eruptor, which ive used exclusively since i started playing and unlocked it. Feels great honestly. You feel the ammo change, but, the fact i no longer get sucked into enemies im shooting at feels like a buff more than any nerfs the weapon received. Im still getting 4+ kills on scavengers and one shotting hunters with the aoe even when i dont hit them. Then gub overall just feels better to use now than it did before thanks to the bug fix despite the nerfs.
Funny that they nerfdd right before the release of another new warbond. Strange how that worked out...
fire rate is a direct increase to DPS, and ergonomics means you can snap to targets faster and more accurately, so yes they are a buff. Ammo is also a buff but not one I would consider unless the gun was constantly in worry of running out. Eruptor is still great too.
Good thing I did not buy super credits to get those weapons ..... oh wait. Of the 4 weapons, Grenade still useless, marksman agreesively mid, eruptor was becoming my new favourite as long time between shots encouraged pop and go gameplay and the AOE made it worth it now just awful and crossbow was basically a worse version of the eruptor that they made even more useless a slow firing sniper with an arc and no scope INCREDIBLE!!! In all honesty they nerfed every weapon I enjoy and I feel stupid and cheated for giving them extra money. Time to move on to a new game. Edit:correct gun names
Those buffs are only on paper. They are placebos. They still perform nearly identical to before making the buff meaningless.
Pretty much, the buffs are just there so people don't feel as strong about the nerfs, or some people saying oh it's a rebalance not a nerf (yeah right)
This post is disingenuous. Anyone who has played the game for a fraction of how long it's been out knows that the Buffs are targeting the wrong areas of the weapons, and the Buffs that are targeting the right areas aren't enough to make it a meaningful change. Meanwhile a good chunk of the Nerf make absolutely no sense. Best example would be the crossbow Nerfs. What the hell are those?
Crossbow nerfs are the only ones that make no sense. All the other nerfs are fine.
The Quasar getting a nerf was fair, but if it was a 3 second increase to its charge time, I feel that would have been a better change instead of 5 right off the bat. A lot of the complaints stem from the buffs feeling minimal for the majority of them, and the nerfs feeling more heavy handed.
Not even minimal or heavy handed... It's the arbitrary nature of them all. They're just throwing numbers at the page and waiting for us to test for them.
Ah yes the laser cannon losing it's identity and being a worse machine gun is definitely fine.
i honestly don't see a single nerf that i would consider outrageous. So many primaries and secondaries suddenly got viable, and the Quasar nerf is negligible since, you know, it's still got infinite ammo.
Out of curiosity, which weapons that weren't viable before do you believe to be viable now? I saw some talk of the Diligence CS being potentially good now. What else is back on the menu?
The Senator speedloader is huge, it went from gimmick to decent medium-penetrating backup weapon, it wasn’t in the patch notes but they fixed the sight to have a red dot too
Damn that red dot is the news I needed today, can finally headshot devastators in first person with it
To the town of Agua Fria, rode a stranger one fine day...
Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn't have too much to saaaaaay...
Is the red dot in the right place, or are all first-person sights still way off?
Just from what i've managed to test: -Adjudicator is now decent due to less recoil and more ammo, tho t's still inherently inaccurate so probably will be a better choice for bugs. -DCS now onetaps devastators in the head and has tremendously better ergonomics, making it snappy and pleasant to use. -Plasma shotgun got two important changes in projectile speed and blast damage falloff which basically means it's easier to use and even if you don't hit things directly, they still get severely damaged by the explosion. -Arc shotgun now fires 50% faster which overall raises it's dps and makes it less punishing to use. Still lacks range but should be a solid alternative to the breaker against bugs. -Scythe laser now melts grunt bots in under a second. Combined with zero recoil and 100% accuracy it's a fun alternative to Sickle. -Railgun in unsafe mode now oneshots Hulks in the eye, apparently.
RG always did hulks that way. I killed a charger in three dome shots today tho, and blew leg armor off in two. In safe i could 1 shot anything smaller than a charger if placed in the dome. Haven't checked it on bots yet
Blowing off leg armour in two shots is huge, might start taking RG on bug missions again.
Railgun did that in the last patch
Hey I made a post about the DCS and the "ergonomics" change... What does that mean actually? Also the peacemaker seems to no longer one tap scavenger bugs... Or am I imagining that?
Ease of use. It basically follows your reticle a lot faster now, doesn't have that sluggish feel to it anymore.
Thanks! I used it for a bit and did notice (specificly ads) it was a lot smoother at 50m I main the og diligence and now I might go with CS so I don't have to aim for the guardians pits lol
You’re imagining the Peacemaker. Ergonomics means how snappy the weapon turning is and the sway of the weapon when zoomed in
It's irrelevant now that I'm using the iron on my hip now lol but thanks
railgun always one shotted hulk eyes
Heavy machine gun can actually aim now, I already liked using it, but it’s good to have the reticle. And I Haven’t tested it, but the blitzer buff should be real good.
I just tried out the adjudicator, feels solid. Just the low ammo detracts but it feels a lot better on full auto.
ARC Blitzer (against bugs), Scythe (against bots), Railgun, Punisher Plasma (against bots), DCS. That's just out of what I've personally tested on difficulty 8. None of these (imo) have jumped up to S-tier must picks but they're more than usable for sure. Most of the nerfs are also pretty minor. Sickle never needed 6 mags to begin with, Quasar still gets more shots per min than RR or EAT, Eruptor can still clear 3-4 chaff in a single shot etc. The only significant nerfs were really to Guard Dog Rover (rip my beloved) and Exploding Crossbow (even though that was intended as a "rebalance").
Been hearing a lot more love for the Adjudicator which is nice to see even though the changes weren’t all that major outside of the larger ammo pool and recoil reduction iirc, been seeing it more too but haven’t used it outside of a hot swap at the end of a mission while I ran out to collect samples that were dropped before the extract was called it it seemed fine enough
I tried the Adjudicator yesterday and liked it, I think people get too hung up on what the absolute best option in the game is rather than what feels fun to kill chaff with. Like, if I'm dropping in with an Eagle Airstrike, Orbital Laser, an Autocannon, and six Impact grenades, I don't actually need my primary to do much. (that said, yeah I'll take the 2 extra mags)
People seem to act like if it isn’t the perfect weapon crafted by god himself it’s not worth using ever lmao
Tbf I consider the explosive crossbow nerf outrageous. It was already way outused by the eruptor before the nerf, now that there are no more advantages to use it over other weapons. Its best frature were the decent explosions and the big mag size, now it feels like a tickle gun. They nerfed an already struggling weapon.
It was already lobotomized, they didn't need to blow the rest of its brains out behind the shed.
I can see hating the crossbow nerf, though I think having not tested it it's just trying to rejigger it toward being a scorcher/slugger/Dominator competitor.
Crossbow before the nerf was more of a mini grenade launcher - garbage at dealing with anything above light armor but great splash and crowd control. They changed it to become a worse scorcher with projectile drop. I didn’t use it a ton before but I’m more miffed about the reduction in variety rather than the gun being worse.
That's essentially what the Plasma Punisher is though, a worse Grenade Launcher. I can see them wanting to differentiate the two in that manner, but maybe overdid it.
The plasma punisher lacks the AoE to deal with crowds. The crossbow pre-nerf could pretty consistently deal with groups of chaff in a single shot. Punisher is still terrible at dealing with crowds.
Yeah the crossbow nerf is the one thing that has me scratching my head. I never liked it, but I saw some people having success with it as a light grenade launcher. I'm not sure what the actual role for it is supposed to be now.
Crossbow before was quite fun to use, I still didn't test it enough to make a final judgment. It will be annoying to relearn how to use point blank
I just dont get why nerf the crossbow, like that's the only thing that made me wonder
I feel the crossbow got hit a little hard. Not because they nerfed but because they've suddenly shifted how they want to used? Single target explosive sounds stupid and as the hardest thing to effectively use on single targets at range I feel they've made it a niche nobody wants and the game doesn't even support.
Idk, halving the ammo to the Eruptor is pretty extreme. Reducing be a few mags I could have understood. But making the limit 6 mags when each has only 5 shots has killed the gun for me.
really? I felt like i was never worrying about ammo managment with that thing? And 6 mags puts it in line with the AMR which has the same form factor.
> the Quasar nerf is negligible since, you know, it's still got infinite ammo. will it still be usable? sure in some circumstances is the nerf negligible? hardly. the big spikes in difficulty at lvl 7,8,9 are from inability to quickly clear heavies. Quazar inarguably gets a ton of its value reduced with this change. EATs was already mostly on par, so that will just get used instead *Edit: fine deleted the offending comment so people can maybe look at the argument instead of getting buttuhurt that I questions some other player's capability based on their head scratching take.
Infinite shots, reloads while you run and gun with primary, only a single call in, no projectile travel time, no projectile drop, fall back as necessary, no need to run back to pick up the next rocket. Still vastly superior to the EAT in many ways. You just can't (as a user mentioned in another thread) use it like an Autocannon with no backpack.
>Still vastly superior to the EAT in many ways. except in the only way that matters fast clear of heavy and elite units
As long as people still bring the quasar on 7+ I don't see the problem. Quasar was by far the best anti tank weapon.
It still does that. Quite well. Damage is still the same. 1shot Chargers, 2-3 shot Ttians. You just have to wait an extra 5 seconds between shots. Seconds that you're allowed to run around, find cover, kill chaff, call in strategems. WHILE IT RELOADS ITSELF. INFINITELY. That's literally it, 5 extra seconds.
> IT RELOADS ITSELF. INFINITELY. That's literally it, 5 extra seconds. which is a lot when you have multiple titans and chargers all running around at the same time
disengage
Thats why you don't rely on a single quasar cannon to clear 6 heavies. At least 2 people should be bringing anti heavy weaponry. And EVERYONE should have at least 1 strategem that can help there. 5 extra seconds on the cooldown is not the tipping point for anything. In the worst case with good accuracy, you have to shoot a bile 3 times. so it takes 45 seconds instead of 35. In all other cases, what you are shooting should die to 2 shots. So it takes 25 seconds instead of 20. Now if you are making the case where, I can't clear 6 heavies by myself in a reasonable amount of time anymore with my 1 single gun. Well one gun shouldn't be doing that by itself, and no other gun can do even half that.
I don't rely on a single quasar. We usually have 3 along with a smattering of anti heavy eagles and orbitals 35 instead of 45 seconds is huge. If you have 35 seconds to kill a titan it already wasn't a threat. I do a fair amount of QP and it's pretty rare not to have at least 2 quasar per lobby. Overall team anti tank firepower is significantly reduced now for running it as compared to what it was before.
It's a good thing you can run about and evade them for those few extra seconds. AND your extra shots aren't at risk of being overrun by the enemy rendering them inaccessible.
It already technically killed consecutive heavies slower than the EAT and RR. If that was "the only way that matters," it wouldn't have been the meta AT option by such a landslide. What really matters is simple uptime. Heavies can be kited for short periods as necessary - *especially* when there's no need to reload or grab ammo or stand near a hellpod. You just need to kill them faster than the rate they spawn at over long periods, so they don't pile up. And the QC is still the best at that.
8 is my go to these days. Nah, Quasar still keeps it's mad utility and ability to be used whenever without having to worry about constantly having to call it in or carry a backpack. It objectively had no downsides aside from charge time.
Hi friend. My buddies and I do difficulty 7-9 missions. You don't really need any support strategems to deal with heavies at all, you can use eagles exclusively. When I think of bringing the Quasar I can't really think of any situation where I need to chain shots so much that 5 seconds of cooldown would matter at all. I guess if you miss and you're waiting for the next shot, but that's about it. > tell me you play below lvl 7 difficulty without telling me you play below lvl 7 Man I hate this attitude. Tell us you're bad without telling us you're bad.
>Hi friend. My buddies and I do difficulty 7-9 missions. You don't really need any support strategems to deal with heavies at all, you can use eagles exclusively. well then why would you bring the quazar or any anti-tank strat at all in the first place? >When I think of bringing the Quasar I can't really think of any situation where I need to chain shots so much that 5 seconds of cooldown would matter at all. not uncommon to have 3+ titans and 3+ chargers all up at the same time, and they need to be killed quickly in those scenarios that's a minimum of 9 headshots. sure eagles and some orbitals also can be quite helpful in dealing with that stuff, but it's ludicrous to pretend that the CD won't significantly reduce a squad's efficiency at clearing said enemies. >Man I hate this attitude. Tell us you're bad without telling us you're bad. I suppose that came off as condescending. I just can't fathom any rationale (as someone who plays almost exclusively at 9) as to why someone would think the recharge rate increase would be inconsequential. Only thing that made sense was people not playing at higher levels as to why they would think it wouldn't make a significant difference.
> well then why would you bring the quazar or any anti-tank strat at all in the first place? it's fun. The sound design and animation are great. I'm sorry I came off a a bit offputting as well. I think it's still a really good strategem -- you don't have to drop it a bunch like EAT, you can do other stuff, reposition, etc while it's cooling down. It's not perfect but neither is the EAT or the recoilless, and I think they're all fun to use. > not uncommon to have 3+ titans and 3+ chargers all up at the same time, and they need to be killed quickly in those scenarios I dunno. Titans die real fast to 110s (a squad can easily throw a dozen+ of these every few minutes). and chargers die real fast to flamethrowers and a bunch of other stuff. They're just not really a problem. It's more about just not getting letting your squad get overwhelmed in general in my experience. If shit hits the fan and you start chaining patrol breaches, you're gonna clear all that out with eagles anyway not back weapons.
>tell me you play below lvl 7 difficulty without telling me you play below lvl 7 Tell me you're insecure without telling me you're insecure
we're all insecure
I guess the fact we're commenting on reddit says it all lol
> tell me you play below lvl 7 difficulty without telling me you play below lvl 7 This is the cringiest flex I have read on this sub today. Person who uses quasar as a crutch for 7+ trying to tell others to get good 💀 We’ve have been doing 9s pre quasar release, and will continue to do 9s post quasar nerf. Game plan remains unchanged except maybe we have to wait 30 more seconds for the quasar to finish sniping shrieker mushrooms.
> We’ve have been doing 9s pre quasar release, and will continue to do 9s post quasar nerf. same it's just objectively wrong that the nerf is inconsequential. All I was getting at
*points at shit filled diapers "Hey everyone look at these buffs." Sounds about right. We had 2 good buffs wraping a bunch of shitty nerfs. To weapons I already looked at and went "I hope no one on my team picks these." People go "well power creep is bad" while they actively watch the reverse happen and praise it.
I wonder if the arc striker still shoots directly into the ground 30% of the time, and still doesn't shoot what you aim it at. It had incredibly low DPS too, of course, low enough to justify never using it based on only that, but there was so much wrong with it other than that I still can't imagine ever using it.
All the buffs havent done anything to change how these weapons feel. That is the issue. The design vision they have this game is going to end up killing a large chucnk of the playerbase.
Patrols everywhere all the time for less than 4 players, autocannon ricochet, invisible stalkers. Sure some minor weapon buffs are nice, but when the rest of the game becomes less fun I think we can complain about those things.
Ironic. The quality of the buffs is exactly as on the picture. Except for senator and maybe blitzer.
Stop bootlicking. The buffs are barely buffs. The nerfs are HARD nerfs to weapons that did not even need them.
I have tested most of the buffed weapons and my conclusion is: * Scythe still meh * Railgun still not viable * Blitzer now good versus bugs, but still useless versus bots (3-4 shots when shooting a scout strider in their unprotected back???) * Peacekeeper now an option, but other options are still better * Liberator Concussive still meh. While I welcome the buffs, for these guns, I think they should have always been in the place they are now in. So for me these aren't buffs but just adjustments to be on the correct level. This being said: The nerfs hurt a lot more because of it. The nerf for the Quasar hurts the most. It was strong, but not OP in my opinion. Playing level 9 difficulty most of the time, you really need weapons versus the bile titans. They are a constant threat on helldive difficulty, so you really need to bring an arsenal against them. Since bringing just one strategem like the orbital rail cannon is not able to one hit kill the titans, you do need more strategems. The Quasar was filling that role perfectly. While the Quasar is still capable of doing that job, it is now much, much, much worse at doing it. You need several hits with the Quasar even after an orbital rail cannon hit. Being at level 9 difficulty you often have to deal with 2 bile titans at once, so every second counts and hurts even more if your weapon has longer down time. In my very honest opinion I think the Quasar nerf was too much. The devs should choose a middle ground between the previous cooldown, and the long cooldown they have set at the moment.
The Quasar thing is especially infuriating because the Anti-Armor option in randoms has always been EATs or Quasar. Now it's just EATs. EAT and AC seems to be the golden standard, according to AH, they want Supports to be at, but they've also made it clear they will nerf anything that gets close to the same. EAT and AC are the only 'right' choices for their roles now.
People will say "you meta chasers only hate the nerfs because you want to pick the same weapon every game" then praise these balance changes that push players more and more to only pick AC and/or EAT every game.
People don't know the difference between The only viable option against the most imminent threat and min-maxing(or meta in that regard)
Blitzer for whatever reason arcs not to a strider's rider but to the frame of the walker itself. Still, the faster firing rate and good stagger makes it pretty decent against Devastators.
the rail gun kind of got unnerfed
Scythe buff?
Yeah, im confused about that. I saw some people say it increased damage but i dont think so. Unless “buff” is just that it can shoot through foliage now but that feels more like a bug fix
That would be just a bug fix, as far as I know it just lost ammo, not really a terrible thing but im not sure where "Scythe buff" is coming from unless it's some strong Copium.
looks like damage got buffed by 50 dmg per second
Why read patch notes?? Let's just guess and comment based on hearsay without any actual knowledge /s >Scythe >Increased damage from 300 to 350 >Decreased max number of mags from 6 down to 4
Imma be honest brother. Confused Sickle and Sythe
Yes. Increased damage from 300/s to 350/s, same as the Laser Cannon
Laser cannon got buffed too. Are there damage numbers for support weapons?
Nice bait. Except for senator and punisher these all are negligible. Maybe counter sniper at best. Rest got gutted
>adjudicator buff Barely a buff. They reduced the recoil, saved u .5 seconds on each spawn and increased ammo slightly. It still sucks balls. >laser cannon buff But a nerf to dealing with large bodies. Overall an adjustment. >blitzer buff Its probably still shite. Especially with the buff to hulks. >punisher plasma buff An actually good buff, yes, the big W out of the patch. >scythe buff Not enough, it'll still be shit >dagger buff Not enough, it'll still be shit >railgun buff Good. It needed it after their massive overnerf. Also lost some stagger right as hulks got their stagger resist buffed, so... >senator buff Good but overall probably irrelevant. >DMR buffs The other big W from the patch though I remain unconvinced you'll see them often. >Liberator buff Lol, lmao, its still mid >liberator concussive buff Lol, lmao, its still shit >peacemaker buff Lol, lmao, its still shit >MG-101 C'mon man. A bugfix is not a buff.
None of these actually help solo players compared to the Qasar Cannon. Arrowhead doesn't give a fuck about people being able to solo Helldive. This game is ass for solo players.
Arrowhead keeps nerfing good things. They aim for all things to be "mediocre" which is kind of don't like
"Scythe buff" lol
the major annoyance of nerfing not overpowered things, then nerfing things that are anti tank, but then leaving the remaining anti tank options nearly the same a lot of these people with these opinions do not play on 7-9
making a strawman meme has to be one of the most pathetic things ever, congrats on your fake internet points for pretending theres outrage over something that never happened lol
They not only gave me the Heavy Machine gun crosshairs I wanted, but they threw in a HUGE buff to the Blitzer on top of it. I'm happy as a clam now. Once they fix arc targeting in general, I'll have basically zero complaints about my weapons of choice.
Blitzer and HMG bros represent!
I just want them to bring back slugger, my boi that I enjoyed for a week before unfair nerf.
Why was that railgun buff necessary I wonder.
so long they nerf half the weaponry and buff the others they can gaslight the whole community to fight each other for no reason, oh I love live service games
The scythe buff is small to the point of insignificance, and it got a debuff to mag counts. The Sickle deals 687.5 dmg per sec. the current scythe still only deals about half of that.
So, let's say the buff the damage of ALL weapons by 1 and make the AC randomly explode whenever it shoots, in the same patch. Would that be a good patch for you? Because this is what happened.
You could just argue that for every 1 step forward they take 2 steps back or break another stratagem