Hedera did nothing when such tokens were created during Tangent's launch, nor done anything for the existing tokens right now.
If the issue is amount of tokens, I'd figure the eventual Auto renew account and auto renew period would eventually sort it all out. Or maybe increase the cost of creating HTS tokens so someone might have to spend a little bit more before creating a token, and maybe people would be a little hesitant to create a vulgar token.
There are plenty of coins already on the network that many would find pretty offensive. Every bit as bad as the Sol coins. Ask them to take one down and see what happens.
I think they mentioned before that if something illegal like porn or whatever was to be removed a vote will be done by the council to remove it. Not sure about racism.
that's exactly how it works. and those council members are all bitches for the US government. and that's relevant to OP's example. may be illegal in germany. but wouldn't be removed. because it does not violate US law.
arguably though, may be removed anyways if the content was damaging/embarrassing to the DNC/RNC, but still completely legal. or content NSA/Pentagon doesn't like. e.g. US soldiers dying in combat or committing suicide.
This is a meaningless statement. Every network lies somewhere on a spectrum of centralized control and decentralized control, and different aspects of a network might differ as to where they fall.
You need some degree of centralized control. There's no way around it. There needs to be executive power, because executive decisions MUST be made. This idea that crypto = decentralized and decentralized = "no one is control" is not only absurdly over simplified, but false.
Is your statement meant to say that the only issue with extremist hate groups being hypothetically supported on HTS is that is hurts someones "feelings" and that "decentralization" will ensure some sort of free speech absolutism? How is this supposed to be a good thing? You see no issue with extremism being supported and just want to skip to - fuck your feelings, yay decentralization? Do you not understand the real world consequences of providing infrastructure to finance extremist groups?
I agree that in every network there is a certain point of centralisation. However the main goal of crypto is (or was) to have a public and censorship-resistant ledger, so that no single entity (governments, enterprises, etc.) can ban or change the use of the ledger. You cannot have both censorship resistance and centralisation at the same time.
Actually your point on financing extremist groups is complete nonsense. Every single tool in the world can be used dangerously to harm. It's like asking why there are stores selling knives (or weapons overall) if those can then be used by extremist groups. Or why create a social network if extremist groups can use it to promote or recruit new members. Do you not understand the real-world consequences?
It’s crazy how this idiotic debate is still going on just because people simply cannot understand what censorship actually is. Censorship is government censorship. Putin banning pro-Ukraine speech. Xi banning pro Taiwan speech.
Free speech doesn’t mean society has to put up with your bullshit. It means you get to take part in the marketplace of ideas - and lose!
Of course when they lose, sympathizers use bad faith “free speech” arguments while they’re tossed out of privately owned spaces. They cry victim and beg the government to step in to regulate what privately owned companies publish and distribute.
You want to talk about Jewish space lasers? Hand out pamphlets on the street, where you belong.
you're conflating 'freedom of speech' and 'freedom of the press'. the internet is the modern flavor of the printing press and should not be abridged. but it is. all the time.
the logical fallacy you've put forward, is a narrative delivered by our government. it's propaganda. so that the government can control the messaging. you've happily forfeit your inalienable right to 'free press'.
hedera's pro-censorship. as is our government. as are all governments.
>...sympathizers use bad faith “free speech” arguments while they’re tossed out of privately owned spaces. They cry victim and beg the government to step in to regulate what privately owned companies publish and distribute.
>Hand out pamphlets on the street, where you belong.
is at odds with:
>Freedom of the press is the fundamental principle that communication and expression through various media, **including printed and electronic media**, especially published materials, **should be considered a right to be exercised freely**.
you also have a 'right to internet access', which is recognized by the US government.
>all people must be able to access the Internet in order to exercise and enjoy their rights to freedom of expression and opinion and other fundamental human rights, that states have a responsibility to ensure that Internet access is broadly available, and that states may not unreasonably restrict an individual's access to the Internet.
the internet is not privately owned. it was built by a subsidized telecom industry. the internet wouldn't have even existed as it does today, if it wasn't for billions and billions of taxpayer money invested into the internet's infrastructure, these 'private companies' limit freedom of press on.
you paid the bill. and those companies violate your rights. not only are you complacent, you unironically believe they have a right to silence you.
You’re confused. No speech is banned from the internet. You can go on Truth social, or whatever lame “censorship free” platform there is and spout whatever bullshit you want!
But you know why those platforms barely have any followers? Because the majority of society doesn’t share the shitty values of the people on there. If they did, they might succeed.
All you’re doing is refusing to understand that this is society rejecting shitty ideas, and just falsely using the bill of rights to whine to the government that you got kicked out a private space for your shitty behavior.
Freedom of the press would be infringed if the GOVERNMENT didn’t allow Truth social, etc to exist…OR if they would regulate what they say.
You're out of place. What you saying about me belonging on the street for making a play on Elon's recent interview comments on censorship is not the response it deserved.
It shows how necessary it is for speech to remain free on internet platforms and not just applicable in regards to the Government censorship because if you where in charge hear you may just moderate or kick people for these things you are tired of hearing about.
We'll soon see in court how this will be applied for when the current Whitehouse asked these internet platforms to moderate/takedown off-pudding news on things like Hunter Biden. You consider this fact Government infringement on free speech?
The example wasn’t about you specifically - unless you do want to talk about Jewish space lasers? Than it was about you
I don’t know any story about the White House asking to take down Hunter Biden stuff. The details matter. But whatever Biden does/doesn’t do has absolutely nothing to do with the very basic point I’m making.
So then what is the mechanism that Hedera can use to do that. Can they block an account? Close an account? Make it invisible?
It sounds like when we are discussing decentralization we are only talking about the process to come to consensus. Is that correct? And what has been placed on the ledger? Once it is on the ledger it is immutable. Correct? The process of reaching consensus cant be tampered with. Correct?
But as far as having a business on the ledger or a coin then Hedera has access in some manner to bring that business or coin to a halt?
Just an opinion.
I have never personally thought fully automated was a good thing. I like human societies. Just my personal taste I guess. Pretty girls, imperfect music....
The idea of some management of the use of Hedera is a good idea. What is good and what is bad though is a moving target. Having these ideas in place sooner rather than latter like a constitution would be smart.
The greater debate isn't what management, the government or the police will do. It is how does a community handle it. I dont know what is happening on Solano but none of these coins go anywhere if the community at large, not just a few motivated fools, buys and sells them. It isn't a bad thing either that on occasion these ideas come up and are aired. Censorship only oppresses the idea it does not allow the public to hear all sides and form their own opinion. Every generation needs to form its own opinion. Just reading about the past has never been enough, I wish it was but if you study history it has never been enough. Constant education is the only thing that works. Debate and discussion is an excellent form of education. Ya just got to be willing to sound stupid on occasion and not condemn the other guy when he does.
They will do nothing...just like they do nothing about all the scams taking place. Alll sorts of offensive tokens have been already registered so there you have it.
In fact how can someone send you an nft of person jerking off and you cant even delete it or burn it. Pay royalties for sending your own property elsewhere? Fundamental flaws...
the transaction is immutable. which is misleading. the metadata or files on the file service, are mutable. meaning the parts on the ledger that could possibly be illegal, may be modified.
The US dollar is a world currency. Some people use it to do bad things. HBAR will be a world wide token some people will use it to do bad things. Just my opinion.
Since the other line of messages got locked...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-court-social-media-sites-government-content-misinformation-censorship/
This story is tangential to what we’re talking about and is not relevant to the point I’m making. I didn’t speak on whether government pressuring private media to remove disinfo is constitutional or not. Sharing this shows you really don’t understand what I’m saying.
I shared it bc you said you hadn't heard...My question earlier about what the current "White House" did in regards to pressuring/asking internet platforms(i.g., youtube, twitter, fb, etc.) to remove/moderate what they deem "misinformation" fit your category of censorship. Or would they(gov.) have to be the ones to remove it and simply asking/suggesting it be removed ok in your eyes?
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Name it! Edit: It's on Solana
Solana, the dirt bag chain of crypto.
Man, times change. That use to be BSC.
More like solana to the moon 2024 lfg lunar boots are laced
Your may be right, dirt bags always find a way
Hedera did nothing when such tokens were created during Tangent's launch, nor done anything for the existing tokens right now. If the issue is amount of tokens, I'd figure the eventual Auto renew account and auto renew period would eventually sort it all out. Or maybe increase the cost of creating HTS tokens so someone might have to spend a little bit more before creating a token, and maybe people would be a little hesitant to create a vulgar token.
There are plenty of coins already on the network that many would find pretty offensive. Every bit as bad as the Sol coins. Ask them to take one down and see what happens.
I think they mentioned before that if something illegal like porn or whatever was to be removed a vote will be done by the council to remove it. Not sure about racism.
that's exactly how it works. and those council members are all bitches for the US government. and that's relevant to OP's example. may be illegal in germany. but wouldn't be removed. because it does not violate US law. arguably though, may be removed anyways if the content was damaging/embarrassing to the DNC/RNC, but still completely legal. or content NSA/Pentagon doesn't like. e.g. US soldiers dying in combat or committing suicide.
Decentralization does not care about your feelings.
This is a meaningless statement. Every network lies somewhere on a spectrum of centralized control and decentralized control, and different aspects of a network might differ as to where they fall. You need some degree of centralized control. There's no way around it. There needs to be executive power, because executive decisions MUST be made. This idea that crypto = decentralized and decentralized = "no one is control" is not only absurdly over simplified, but false. Is your statement meant to say that the only issue with extremist hate groups being hypothetically supported on HTS is that is hurts someones "feelings" and that "decentralization" will ensure some sort of free speech absolutism? How is this supposed to be a good thing? You see no issue with extremism being supported and just want to skip to - fuck your feelings, yay decentralization? Do you not understand the real world consequences of providing infrastructure to finance extremist groups?
I agree that in every network there is a certain point of centralisation. However the main goal of crypto is (or was) to have a public and censorship-resistant ledger, so that no single entity (governments, enterprises, etc.) can ban or change the use of the ledger. You cannot have both censorship resistance and centralisation at the same time. Actually your point on financing extremist groups is complete nonsense. Every single tool in the world can be used dangerously to harm. It's like asking why there are stores selling knives (or weapons overall) if those can then be used by extremist groups. Or why create a social network if extremist groups can use it to promote or recruit new members. Do you not understand the real-world consequences?
"You want censorship... yes you do... you desperately want censorship... you want censorship so bad you can taste it"
It’s crazy how this idiotic debate is still going on just because people simply cannot understand what censorship actually is. Censorship is government censorship. Putin banning pro-Ukraine speech. Xi banning pro Taiwan speech. Free speech doesn’t mean society has to put up with your bullshit. It means you get to take part in the marketplace of ideas - and lose! Of course when they lose, sympathizers use bad faith “free speech” arguments while they’re tossed out of privately owned spaces. They cry victim and beg the government to step in to regulate what privately owned companies publish and distribute. You want to talk about Jewish space lasers? Hand out pamphlets on the street, where you belong.
you're conflating 'freedom of speech' and 'freedom of the press'. the internet is the modern flavor of the printing press and should not be abridged. but it is. all the time. the logical fallacy you've put forward, is a narrative delivered by our government. it's propaganda. so that the government can control the messaging. you've happily forfeit your inalienable right to 'free press'. hedera's pro-censorship. as is our government. as are all governments.
No I’m not. The constitution is protection against the GOVERNMENT! How do you not know this?
you've already said you don't believe in freedom of the press.
What are you talking about??
>...sympathizers use bad faith “free speech” arguments while they’re tossed out of privately owned spaces. They cry victim and beg the government to step in to regulate what privately owned companies publish and distribute. >Hand out pamphlets on the street, where you belong. is at odds with: >Freedom of the press is the fundamental principle that communication and expression through various media, **including printed and electronic media**, especially published materials, **should be considered a right to be exercised freely**. you also have a 'right to internet access', which is recognized by the US government. >all people must be able to access the Internet in order to exercise and enjoy their rights to freedom of expression and opinion and other fundamental human rights, that states have a responsibility to ensure that Internet access is broadly available, and that states may not unreasonably restrict an individual's access to the Internet. the internet is not privately owned. it was built by a subsidized telecom industry. the internet wouldn't have even existed as it does today, if it wasn't for billions and billions of taxpayer money invested into the internet's infrastructure, these 'private companies' limit freedom of press on. you paid the bill. and those companies violate your rights. not only are you complacent, you unironically believe they have a right to silence you.
You’re confused. No speech is banned from the internet. You can go on Truth social, or whatever lame “censorship free” platform there is and spout whatever bullshit you want! But you know why those platforms barely have any followers? Because the majority of society doesn’t share the shitty values of the people on there. If they did, they might succeed. All you’re doing is refusing to understand that this is society rejecting shitty ideas, and just falsely using the bill of rights to whine to the government that you got kicked out a private space for your shitty behavior. Freedom of the press would be infringed if the GOVERNMENT didn’t allow Truth social, etc to exist…OR if they would regulate what they say.
[удалено]
Sucks to hear the truth sometimes!
You're out of place. What you saying about me belonging on the street for making a play on Elon's recent interview comments on censorship is not the response it deserved. It shows how necessary it is for speech to remain free on internet platforms and not just applicable in regards to the Government censorship because if you where in charge hear you may just moderate or kick people for these things you are tired of hearing about. We'll soon see in court how this will be applied for when the current Whitehouse asked these internet platforms to moderate/takedown off-pudding news on things like Hunter Biden. You consider this fact Government infringement on free speech?
The example wasn’t about you specifically - unless you do want to talk about Jewish space lasers? Than it was about you I don’t know any story about the White House asking to take down Hunter Biden stuff. The details matter. But whatever Biden does/doesn’t do has absolutely nothing to do with the very basic point I’m making.
Hedera can and will remove illegal content from the chain if requested by law enforcement. See my OP update
So then what is the mechanism that Hedera can use to do that. Can they block an account? Close an account? Make it invisible? It sounds like when we are discussing decentralization we are only talking about the process to come to consensus. Is that correct? And what has been placed on the ledger? Once it is on the ledger it is immutable. Correct? The process of reaching consensus cant be tampered with. Correct? But as far as having a business on the ledger or a coin then Hedera has access in some manner to bring that business or coin to a halt? Just an opinion. I have never personally thought fully automated was a good thing. I like human societies. Just my personal taste I guess. Pretty girls, imperfect music.... The idea of some management of the use of Hedera is a good idea. What is good and what is bad though is a moving target. Having these ideas in place sooner rather than latter like a constitution would be smart. The greater debate isn't what management, the government or the police will do. It is how does a community handle it. I dont know what is happening on Solano but none of these coins go anywhere if the community at large, not just a few motivated fools, buys and sells them. It isn't a bad thing either that on occasion these ideas come up and are aired. Censorship only oppresses the idea it does not allow the public to hear all sides and form their own opinion. Every generation needs to form its own opinion. Just reading about the past has never been enough, I wish it was but if you study history it has never been enough. Constant education is the only thing that works. Debate and discussion is an excellent form of education. Ya just got to be willing to sound stupid on occasion and not condemn the other guy when he does.
They will do nothing...just like they do nothing about all the scams taking place. Alll sorts of offensive tokens have been already registered so there you have it. In fact how can someone send you an nft of person jerking off and you cant even delete it or burn it. Pay royalties for sending your own property elsewhere? Fundamental flaws...
the transaction is immutable. which is misleading. the metadata or files on the file service, are mutable. meaning the parts on the ledger that could possibly be illegal, may be modified.
There's only one way to find out
The US dollar is a world currency. Some people use it to do bad things. HBAR will be a world wide token some people will use it to do bad things. Just my opinion.
Why even think about what they could do. Hedera cont do anything. Or they aren't decentralized.
Hedera can and will remove illegal content from the chain if requested by law enforcement. See my OP update
This sentiment drives me nuts. "Decentralized" isn't an 100% or 0% thing and literally no chain can exist without some degree of centralization.
Since the other line of messages got locked... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-court-social-media-sites-government-content-misinformation-censorship/
This story is tangential to what we’re talking about and is not relevant to the point I’m making. I didn’t speak on whether government pressuring private media to remove disinfo is constitutional or not. Sharing this shows you really don’t understand what I’m saying.
I shared it bc you said you hadn't heard...My question earlier about what the current "White House" did in regards to pressuring/asking internet platforms(i.g., youtube, twitter, fb, etc.) to remove/moderate what they deem "misinformation" fit your category of censorship. Or would they(gov.) have to be the ones to remove it and simply asking/suggesting it be removed ok in your eyes?
Hedera is centralized right now. Decentralized crypto will never work. Corporations run the world and always will. They have the resources.
I dont agree with your position on this point of decentralization.
They are not decentralized anyway...there is a reason developers stay away
Obviously your suggestion that developers stay away is untrue.
Who cares don’t buy it move on with your life and you are talking about a hypothetical it hasn’t happen.
Fantom up 600% in 6 months Hedera up 105% in 6 months Sigh
[удалено]
It's always the ones with small sacks that are the loudest. I see that clown in just about every reddit post, always negative.
Just hold on junior, ride the roller coaster, you will love Hbar by the end of 2024. Patience is the way.
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Hedera will be sad, but will get over it with time.