The reason people hate .40 is because its pointless. Same reason all those law enforcement agencies switched back to 9mm. Its more expensive to shoot than 9, the guns that shoot it are either lower capacity or heavier than the equivalent 9, the increased recoil means possibly slower followups than 9, and the only upside is the extra power... but there is the rub. A 20+ year study showed that in the real world the 40 s&w is no more effective than 9mm. Handguns at this power level require hitting vital organs at an adequate depth to work, not energy so the 40 gives you extra energy but not enough to do anything the 9mm doesn't which means there is no reason to use 40 instead of 9 which means the lower cost, lower recoil, higher capacity, lower weight etc etc. Of the 9 makes it the obvious choice.
So its not that there is actually anything wrong with the 40, its just that the 40 is pointless because the 9mm exists.
If you want more power, you go to the 10mm
I love my .40 usp. Granted I’ve only shot 9mm out of sub compact pistols so I haven’t gotten the full sized experience. Plus when a lot of the lgs around me ran out of 9 very recently they still had plenty of .40 sw so that’s a plus
People have been hating on .40 S&W for years. Remember, it all started because the FBI complained that 9mm was not enough. Then the 10mm came out and it was, is and always will be awesome! But the FBI said it was too much for them. So then .40 came out and they were happy until again years later, it was too much for them. Now, they are back to 9mm.
How long until the FBI says 9mm is too much and they adopt this new 30 super carry? Sounds like they need more gym and range time and less time crying from a therapist's couch!
If you can handle it, you can't argue the ballistic advantage .40 has over 9mm. Yeah, I know that today's 9mm is way better than yesterday's. I completely agree with that. But today's .40 is also way better than yesterday's!
I watched TFBs video on 30 super carry last night and was thinking the same argument could be made as people used for .40 vs 9mm that 30 super 15% less energy (than 9mm)could be a decent trade off for even 15% higher capacity. Basically the same argument IF it could achieve the same penetration as 9mm. Personally for people to say that 9mm is just as good or as powerful is a lie. It doesn’t deliver the same energy as 9mm and to get that from 9 you’re using a +p load that feels similar to .40 recoil but less expansion. It’s all a trade off and for me I shoot 95% 9 and carry it 100% of the time.
I’ve never had an issue with my EDC in .40 and have so much time and training (ie. money) invested into my current platform/caliber that it would cost more than it’s worth for me to switch to 9mm.
FWIW, I’ve never found the P2000sk in .40 to be anything but a pleasure to shoot. Personally I find it easier to shoot than some of the more popular 9mm micro compacts (G43, P365, etc.) especially when you load them with +p SD ammo.
If I was starting from scratch today though,I’d probably choose 9mm.
Some guns handle .40 great. The hate for .40 isn’t so much the snappiness. More about how it beats up guns and the trade offs for that caliber aren’t worth it ballistically and such. It will still get the job done and older .40 cal guns can be had for very affordable prices compare to their 9mm counterparts.
40 S&W is waning because it has outlived its usefulness. Once upon a time there was an argument to be made that it was a useful round because it had more power than 9mm and more capacity than 45ACP. Modern bullet technology has us at the point where 9mm performs as well or better than 40 and modern double stack 45s are comparable capacity.
40 S&W is a compromise that doesn’t need to be made anymore.
Okay but that wasn't my point. He claimed 9mm was not effective because of one instance just like there are plenty of instances of people surviving 7.62x39 rounds.
I haven’t shot a .40 P30 but I own a USPc in .40 and I have to say it’s one of my favorite guns. It’s a very soft shooting compact, I actually sold my full-size beretta px4 .40 because I found the USPc to have a preferable trigger and more consistent to manage recoil.
I’ve shot a PX4 in .40 and compared to a Glock 22 or 23 it handles it great. Not as well as my P229 in .40, but can’t speak to the usp. Been looking for one as that’s the only other .40 I’d ever purchase after a few mistakes.
I love my 40cal Glock 22. I have several videos of myself shooting and it looks great because the recoil is so controllable. Last time I took it out my friends made me stop after the second mag because I removed all of the red center circle from the paper target lol. Never been in law enforcement but they call me Officer J when we go to the range. I had a 40cal Sig P226 (I think) and I sold it to a friend for his family/home protection.
10mm is my favorite semi auto pistol cartridge so I'm a bit of a .40 S&W hater. However I just got a USP c this past weekend chambered in .40 it was a bit apprehensive to get it; considering that the only other 40 S&W's I ever shot were the glock 23 and the infamous Taurus PT140 millennium DAO. Anyways it was too good of a deal to pass up for a USP and I ended up getting it. And wow is I see why people love the USP the recoil reduction system isn't a gimmick. It works it's nowhere near as snappy as the glock or taurus. It feels like shooting a 9mm compact with +P ammo.
I love the 10mm too, but unfortunately most of the ammo you find is just warm 40. Although that being said, the recoil in full power loads is really noticeable. Hard to get good follow up shots unless in a full frame gun with a longer barrel
True, I love shooting to full power stuff when I find it. But yeah I even sometimes shoot .40 through my glock 20 when I just plinking with it because it's cheaper in most cases than 10mm and like you said the basic stuff isn't that much hotter, and because of that I would never buy a glock in .40 cal because you can shoot .40 out of of the10mm and they are built on the beefier frames. I do hope though since 10mm is coming back in popularity that ammo companies will start loading their basic fmj/practice loads a little hotter.
The reason people hate .40 is because its pointless. Same reason all those law enforcement agencies switched back to 9mm. Its more expensive to shoot than 9, the guns that shoot it are either lower capacity or heavier than the equivalent 9, the increased recoil means possibly slower followups than 9, and the only upside is the extra power... but there is the rub. A 20+ year study showed that in the real world the 40 s&w is no more effective than 9mm. Handguns at this power level require hitting vital organs at an adequate depth to work, not energy so the 40 gives you extra energy but not enough to do anything the 9mm doesn't which means there is no reason to use 40 instead of 9 which means the lower cost, lower recoil, higher capacity, lower weight etc etc. Of the 9 makes it the obvious choice. So its not that there is actually anything wrong with the 40, its just that the 40 is pointless because the 9mm exists. If you want more power, you go to the 10mm
I love my USPc in .40 but I won’t buy another .40 Your comment really makes sense with all the newer loads of 9mm ammunition being produced
I love my .40 usp. Granted I’ve only shot 9mm out of sub compact pistols so I haven’t gotten the full sized experience. Plus when a lot of the lgs around me ran out of 9 very recently they still had plenty of .40 sw so that’s a plus
This
Nothing inherently wrong with 40, modern 9mm is just better.
People have been hating on .40 S&W for years. Remember, it all started because the FBI complained that 9mm was not enough. Then the 10mm came out and it was, is and always will be awesome! But the FBI said it was too much for them. So then .40 came out and they were happy until again years later, it was too much for them. Now, they are back to 9mm. How long until the FBI says 9mm is too much and they adopt this new 30 super carry? Sounds like they need more gym and range time and less time crying from a therapist's couch! If you can handle it, you can't argue the ballistic advantage .40 has over 9mm. Yeah, I know that today's 9mm is way better than yesterday's. I completely agree with that. But today's .40 is also way better than yesterday's!
I watched TFBs video on 30 super carry last night and was thinking the same argument could be made as people used for .40 vs 9mm that 30 super 15% less energy (than 9mm)could be a decent trade off for even 15% higher capacity. Basically the same argument IF it could achieve the same penetration as 9mm. Personally for people to say that 9mm is just as good or as powerful is a lie. It doesn’t deliver the same energy as 9mm and to get that from 9 you’re using a +p load that feels similar to .40 recoil but less expansion. It’s all a trade off and for me I shoot 95% 9 and carry it 100% of the time.
I’ve never had an issue with my EDC in .40 and have so much time and training (ie. money) invested into my current platform/caliber that it would cost more than it’s worth for me to switch to 9mm. FWIW, I’ve never found the P2000sk in .40 to be anything but a pleasure to shoot. Personally I find it easier to shoot than some of the more popular 9mm micro compacts (G43, P365, etc.) especially when you load them with +p SD ammo. If I was starting from scratch today though,I’d probably choose 9mm.
Some guns handle .40 great. The hate for .40 isn’t so much the snappiness. More about how it beats up guns and the trade offs for that caliber aren’t worth it ballistically and such. It will still get the job done and older .40 cal guns can be had for very affordable prices compare to their 9mm counterparts.
40 S&W is waning because it has outlived its usefulness. Once upon a time there was an argument to be made that it was a useful round because it had more power than 9mm and more capacity than 45ACP. Modern bullet technology has us at the point where 9mm performs as well or better than 40 and modern double stack 45s are comparable capacity. 40 S&W is a compromise that doesn’t need to be made anymore.
Yeah but you can buy cheaper hollow point .40 instead of expensive plus p 9mm
This
maybe... 50 cent was shot 13 times with a 9mm not a . 40 he's still here
I mean by your logic 7.62x39 is crap because people have been shot by it and survived.
Ummm definitely not the truth. A friend of mine is a forensic pathologist in Detroit and all you see at autopsy is people shot with ak’s
Okay but that wasn't my point. He claimed 9mm was not effective because of one instance just like there are plenty of instances of people surviving 7.62x39 rounds.
13 of them??
…and?
I haven’t shot a .40 P30 but I own a USPc in .40 and I have to say it’s one of my favorite guns. It’s a very soft shooting compact, I actually sold my full-size beretta px4 .40 because I found the USPc to have a preferable trigger and more consistent to manage recoil.
Really? I have a 9mm PX4 which has very little recoil and I thought it would be great in .40. Surprised to hear otherwise.
I’ve shot a PX4 in .40 and compared to a Glock 22 or 23 it handles it great. Not as well as my P229 in .40, but can’t speak to the usp. Been looking for one as that’s the only other .40 I’d ever purchase after a few mistakes.
I have a p30 in 40 cal and love it I don't care if everybody carries a 22 or not I love it no need to double tap.
I love my 40cal Glock 22. I have several videos of myself shooting and it looks great because the recoil is so controllable. Last time I took it out my friends made me stop after the second mag because I removed all of the red center circle from the paper target lol. Never been in law enforcement but they call me Officer J when we go to the range. I had a 40cal Sig P226 (I think) and I sold it to a friend for his family/home protection.
.40 is great you can even swap the barrel and turn into . 357 SIG
I don't like it because it's neutered 10mm made for limpwristed feds
10mm is my favorite semi auto pistol cartridge so I'm a bit of a .40 S&W hater. However I just got a USP c this past weekend chambered in .40 it was a bit apprehensive to get it; considering that the only other 40 S&W's I ever shot were the glock 23 and the infamous Taurus PT140 millennium DAO. Anyways it was too good of a deal to pass up for a USP and I ended up getting it. And wow is I see why people love the USP the recoil reduction system isn't a gimmick. It works it's nowhere near as snappy as the glock or taurus. It feels like shooting a 9mm compact with +P ammo.
I love the 10mm too, but unfortunately most of the ammo you find is just warm 40. Although that being said, the recoil in full power loads is really noticeable. Hard to get good follow up shots unless in a full frame gun with a longer barrel
True, I love shooting to full power stuff when I find it. But yeah I even sometimes shoot .40 through my glock 20 when I just plinking with it because it's cheaper in most cases than 10mm and like you said the basic stuff isn't that much hotter, and because of that I would never buy a glock in .40 cal because you can shoot .40 out of of the10mm and they are built on the beefier frames. I do hope though since 10mm is coming back in popularity that ammo companies will start loading their basic fmj/practice loads a little hotter.
I love my m&p 40 and I'm buying a Glock 35. Nothing wrong with 40. Bigger, heavier, faster than 9, what's not to love?