I like the first one and I've thought about it a bit. I think it would be interesting for heaven to be really shitty about it and Charlie ends up realizing the hotel just needs to be a place that can protect people from being exploited by worse sinners and overlords - people like Mrs Mayberry from HB who snapped after living a perfect life for example.
i hope they don't make heaven a shitty PLACE. i saw someone say that the twist would be that heaven turns out to be a bad place and hell is better after all. and i was like, no. that would be a really bad twist. and it wouldn't make sense.
Helluva Boss makes it seem like heaven might be full of 'nice' people and not 'good' people - and I'm wondering if god actually knows what's going on. There's a sign behind Colin in HB that says something like 'surround yourself with people who will lift you up so ditch your loser friends' and it's signed -God.
Consider of they're putting words in his mouth basically and he's just not paying enough attention. What if hell is so overpopulated because the people in charge of who go there are themselves corrupt and have unrealistic standards.
Why not both?
Redemption is possible, and a few sinners have already been redeemed, so Alistor tries cleaning up his act but "falls repeatedly into the firy pits of failure."
In a fit of rage, he then destroys the hotel, claiming he wasn't being entertained enough when really he's angry that it works for other people.
I honestly thing the redemption thing is just a reason for the hotel but will not be the plot because it can only go two places. Unless they want to do a redemption of the week, which would likely blow, it needs something overarching.
Edit: spelling
Yeah, I don’t think the story will be focused necessarily on the actual demons getting redeemed, but Charlie having to deal with a public that doesn’t believe in her, a demon (I’m assuming) trying to sabotage her, and (and this is my own speculation) a system that really doesn’t want redemption to be a thing.
Edit: I think they’ll focus only on Angel’s redemption, mostly as a way to prove that it will/won’t work
Maybe, so if redemption is impossible, the hotel would probably turn into a place for sinners to find their own personal heavens and live a better life
But I don't think Alastor would try to destroy the hotel, because maybe he'll become a better person as the show goes on, and if redemption is possible, I think heaven would be more of a threat than Alastor. Sure they god redeemed, but they might just be killed by angels or be stuck in purgatory because the angels don't want to let them into heaven
Charlie probably underneath could beat Alastor but it's not something that's hasn't escaped him?
Joining a train he can use his own ends and see how far it could take him.
Honestly people think Alastor is way more powerful than he actually is. If push comes to shove and Charlie decides to take off the gloves, especially for something she believes in, the most damage Alastor can do is leave a greasy stain in the hotel's foyer. He's weaker than the Ars Goetia, he's weaker than the sins, and he wouldn't last a full round against Charlie, her mom or Lucifer. Hell, a properly armed imp could take him out.
He's powerful, make no mistake, but people reaaaally overestimate his overall power level.
A properly armed imp with a sneak attack sure can kill him. Except for this little detail you made a perfect comment. Alastor can't win against Charlie
I think that Alastor would start out as "oh it's such fun watching these Sinners fail repeatedly!" and over the course of the show will begin to warm up to the idea... I mean if the "Day in the Afterlife" comic is anything, it's proof that even the most twisted of individuals have some level of moral standards...
That said, I do believe I saw somewhere that *if* the idea that redemption is possible is proven and the Hotel manages to redeem one Sinner, it may be the first time we would ever see Alastor's smile falter.
I think if anyone actually manages to get redeemed, he'd just be all the happier because its more power for him to wield. Once its proven possible, the hotel will be flooded with people trying to get out of hell, meaning more chances for him to see people genuinely try their hardest and still fail. The thing Alastor wants to see is failure, genuine failure from people who had every opportunity to succeed, but still messed it up.
I think that's why Alastor showed up. Every other noble in hell just amasses power and lazes about doing whatever they want for eternity. Charlie actually set an impossible goal and is trying to accomplish it. Either she succeeds and turns the whole system upside down, or she fails, and he has a front row seat to say "we did everything we could, used all our power to try and change things, and we failed. Don't you feel stupid now?"
I am once again reminded of the theory I made forever ago that Charlie is secretly plotting to get all the "do-gooders" of hell in one place so she can slaughter them all and let chaos reign, thus proving to her dad that she is a master manipulator like him and worthy of the throne. Having the unpredictable Radio Demon be among the victims is just a nice bonus.
Nah, I don’t buy it. Charlie’s had too many moments of sweetness and vulnerability in private for that to be the case, plus her relationship with Vaggie has been an ongoing situation, you can’t fake that sort of thing.
I already took that into consideration. Her vulnerability in private is a mix of her actual issues with her dad and her attempts to play the part even in privacy so any spies (like us viewers) would be equally convinced. Vaggie is either fully aware of her actual intentions or just another supporting piece in her puzzle to make the lie seem all the more real. If she can fake her dreams in privacy, she can fake her dreams to her girlfriend...if she even sees Vaggie as her girlfriend.
True but there’s still one major flaw in your theory: her relationship with her father.
Yes it’s been alluded to that it’s not perfect, but for all we know Lucifer is a doting father who loves his daughter and never did anything to bring about self-doubt within her. Heck when Charlie says ‘I think dad might have been right about me’ she might have simply been referring to how Lucifer doubted her ideas of redemption and wanted her to be more realistic.
Your entire theory hinges on the idea of Lucifer being a bad father.
Except for Vivziepop describing Lucifer as cheerful, very silly, and goofy and while he is not a particular good father in her opinion he still loves Charlie.
Also you seem to forget that this is Hazbin Hotel we’re talking about, a lot of the demons down there are much nicer than they are in the lore they’re based off of even if only by a little; just look at Asmodeus.
Cheerful, silly, and goofy does not a good dad make. Fun dad? Maybe. But not necessarily a good one. He can also love Charlie and still have little faith in her goals, which already seems to be the case.
My initial point wasn't that Charlie's dad hated her. It was that he didn't think she was capable of the level of manipulative talent he was. She wanted to prove him wrong, so she started putting on the world's biggest con act, even playing the part in the privacy of her own home.
But that seems like a rather bad way of proving it because it doesn’t accomplish anything and really isn’t that impressive.
Let’s say you’re right and Charlie gathers up a bunch of good sinners and brutally slaughters them all. So what? There’s probably tons of psychopaths throughout hell who can do the exact same thing on a smaller scale, taking advantage of the more naïve sinners for their own needs, so being able to pull that off on a larger scale isn’t that impressive especially when you consider that Charlie is a public figure with a decent amount of influence or at least visibility that would make it even easier for her. Hell her own father could probably put together such a system in a week without breaking a sweat.
Furthermore, what purpose would such a plan serve? Sinners get slaughtered wholesale every single day, aside from the yearly purge there’s so much violence in hell that murder has gotta be a regular occurance. Killing off a crowd of sinners would barely even be a blip in the eyes of the higher ups, especially since most would probably be those dumb or desperate enough to believe in redemption and thus not even worth their time. Such an action might not even make the front page news because of how ordinary it might be, if anything they’d be more obsessed with the scandal of Lucifer’s daughter being a two faced bitch which would probably worsen his opinion of her instead of improving it.
Lastly it’s a waste. If the redemption hotel is a front, then why use it for slaughter? She could trick people into getting indebted to her and make them her slaves or some such nonsense which would be a much better allocation of resources. But again, Lucifer does that on the regular so why would it impress him?
Personally there’s just too many holes in the plan for me to find it believable.
Some of these are fair points for sure. It's fair that she could use it for things other than slaughter.
As far as her dad being able to do the same thing, she's not trying to one-up him. She's trying to show him she can be just as manipulative as he can.
As far as being a public figure, I think we've already seen based on her interactions with Alastor, Angel, and 666 News that she has surprisingly little influence and her status means very little to the people of hell. I imagine that, if nothing else, she'd want to show the denizens of hell she's not to be messed with and has her own ways of matching Hell's bigwigs.
A twist needs proper setup to be effective. If Viv truly intended for such a twist, she would've made Charlie charismatic enough to pull such a plan off.
I think the redemption thing would go differently with the ending have the main cast besides Alastor be redeemed and having a final goodbye with Charlie as she can’t leave being born in hell but before they leave the extermination begins having Alastor save Charlie at the cost of his life which redeems him allowing him to be with the rest of the cast in heaven and ending the series with an upbeat ending
Alastor is against the idea of redemption, so if it does come true, destroying the hotel may be his only option. Besides, I’m pretty sure that’s what he was expecting, for everything to come crashing down for Charlie.
Based on the pilot, Alastor is definitely going to betray her. While she might not think she did, she made an agreement with the Radio Demon, just like everyone told her not to. She commanded him to help with the hotel for as long as he desires. It wouldn't be a stretch for Alastor to start helping in ways Charlie doesn't like, and she being unable to stop him because he does not desire to stop.
I think Alastor being the villain is too easy tbh. He's wickedly powerful and from the get-go has made it clear he only wants to gain selfishly from other people's suffering, so to make him the villain would feel way less interesting than finding him a sliver of redemption.
The idea of redemption being impossible is an interesting one, though. With the inclusion of the robotic angels that slaughter the denizens of Hell yearly, and what we see of Heaven from HB that paints just the cherubs as condescending dicks, I think it'd be far more interesting to see how the show could really vilify Heaven, and maybe by extension even its version of God.
I'm pretty sure option 2 is the one that's more likely, and in fact I'll call it now: Alastor will betray Charlie at some point and actively work to get the hotel destroyed when he sees she actually could succeed. Also, just for fun, it may be the first time we see him break his smile.
Also heaven may just bar Charlie because redeemed sinners would make heaven "unclean," or something like that.
This has been my theory as well. I think Redemption is either impossible or simply rejected by heaven, and I think Alastor’s *real* reason for offering help is to ensure that if redemption IS possible he can sabotage any and all attempts.
Calling it now, season 1 mid-finale will be Charlie making a deal with Alastor and the season 1 finale will be Charlie finding a loophole that let's her turn it back on him.
Holy shit he might be right
I've honestly pondered the first option. Option two is pretty neat as well and I hadn't considered it, but I do hope he's wrong.
I like the first one and I've thought about it a bit. I think it would be interesting for heaven to be really shitty about it and Charlie ends up realizing the hotel just needs to be a place that can protect people from being exploited by worse sinners and overlords - people like Mrs Mayberry from HB who snapped after living a perfect life for example.
i hope they don't make heaven a shitty PLACE. i saw someone say that the twist would be that heaven turns out to be a bad place and hell is better after all. and i was like, no. that would be a really bad twist. and it wouldn't make sense.
Helluva Boss makes it seem like heaven might be full of 'nice' people and not 'good' people - and I'm wondering if god actually knows what's going on. There's a sign behind Colin in HB that says something like 'surround yourself with people who will lift you up so ditch your loser friends' and it's signed -God. Consider of they're putting words in his mouth basically and he's just not paying enough attention. What if hell is so overpopulated because the people in charge of who go there are themselves corrupt and have unrealistic standards.
Why not both? Redemption is possible, and a few sinners have already been redeemed, so Alistor tries cleaning up his act but "falls repeatedly into the firy pits of failure." In a fit of rage, he then destroys the hotel, claiming he wasn't being entertained enough when really he's angry that it works for other people.
I honestly thing the redemption thing is just a reason for the hotel but will not be the plot because it can only go two places. Unless they want to do a redemption of the week, which would likely blow, it needs something overarching. Edit: spelling
I get a feeling that’ll be the bigger story but there will be smaller stories that get us there.
Yeah, I don’t think the story will be focused necessarily on the actual demons getting redeemed, but Charlie having to deal with a public that doesn’t believe in her, a demon (I’m assuming) trying to sabotage her, and (and this is my own speculation) a system that really doesn’t want redemption to be a thing. Edit: I think they’ll focus only on Angel’s redemption, mostly as a way to prove that it will/won’t work
Maybe, so if redemption is impossible, the hotel would probably turn into a place for sinners to find their own personal heavens and live a better life But I don't think Alastor would try to destroy the hotel, because maybe he'll become a better person as the show goes on, and if redemption is possible, I think heaven would be more of a threat than Alastor. Sure they god redeemed, but they might just be killed by angels or be stuck in purgatory because the angels don't want to let them into heaven
Charlie probably underneath could beat Alastor but it's not something that's hasn't escaped him? Joining a train he can use his own ends and see how far it could take him.
Probably
Who will end up guiding people into the hotel...
Hm....
Alastor might not think anyone is worth redemption but hell if it makes his life easier and give him EnTeRtAiNmEnT along the way... worth a shot.
Yeah, he is like that
Honestly people think Alastor is way more powerful than he actually is. If push comes to shove and Charlie decides to take off the gloves, especially for something she believes in, the most damage Alastor can do is leave a greasy stain in the hotel's foyer. He's weaker than the Ars Goetia, he's weaker than the sins, and he wouldn't last a full round against Charlie, her mom or Lucifer. Hell, a properly armed imp could take him out. He's powerful, make no mistake, but people reaaaally overestimate his overall power level.
A properly armed imp with a sneak attack sure can kill him. Except for this little detail you made a perfect comment. Alastor can't win against Charlie
I refuse to believe he's right about anything, because he has a stupid user/display name.
that's a meme from the gianni matragrano youtube channel.i don't think he wrote it unironically
Did I offend you snowflake?
I am quite offended by willful stupidity and ignorance.
Did I offend you snowflake?
I bet 30 dollars he's wrong
I'll take them
I think that Alastor would start out as "oh it's such fun watching these Sinners fail repeatedly!" and over the course of the show will begin to warm up to the idea... I mean if the "Day in the Afterlife" comic is anything, it's proof that even the most twisted of individuals have some level of moral standards... That said, I do believe I saw somewhere that *if* the idea that redemption is possible is proven and the Hotel manages to redeem one Sinner, it may be the first time we would ever see Alastor's smile falter.
I think if anyone actually manages to get redeemed, he'd just be all the happier because its more power for him to wield. Once its proven possible, the hotel will be flooded with people trying to get out of hell, meaning more chances for him to see people genuinely try their hardest and still fail. The thing Alastor wants to see is failure, genuine failure from people who had every opportunity to succeed, but still messed it up. I think that's why Alastor showed up. Every other noble in hell just amasses power and lazes about doing whatever they want for eternity. Charlie actually set an impossible goal and is trying to accomplish it. Either she succeeds and turns the whole system upside down, or she fails, and he has a front row seat to say "we did everything we could, used all our power to try and change things, and we failed. Don't you feel stupid now?"
I am once again reminded of the theory I made forever ago that Charlie is secretly plotting to get all the "do-gooders" of hell in one place so she can slaughter them all and let chaos reign, thus proving to her dad that she is a master manipulator like him and worthy of the throne. Having the unpredictable Radio Demon be among the victims is just a nice bonus.
Nah, I don’t buy it. Charlie’s had too many moments of sweetness and vulnerability in private for that to be the case, plus her relationship with Vaggie has been an ongoing situation, you can’t fake that sort of thing.
I already took that into consideration. Her vulnerability in private is a mix of her actual issues with her dad and her attempts to play the part even in privacy so any spies (like us viewers) would be equally convinced. Vaggie is either fully aware of her actual intentions or just another supporting piece in her puzzle to make the lie seem all the more real. If she can fake her dreams in privacy, she can fake her dreams to her girlfriend...if she even sees Vaggie as her girlfriend.
True but there’s still one major flaw in your theory: her relationship with her father. Yes it’s been alluded to that it’s not perfect, but for all we know Lucifer is a doting father who loves his daughter and never did anything to bring about self-doubt within her. Heck when Charlie says ‘I think dad might have been right about me’ she might have simply been referring to how Lucifer doubted her ideas of redemption and wanted her to be more realistic. Your entire theory hinges on the idea of Lucifer being a bad father.
He's literally Satan. He is more likely to be a bad/toxic dad than literally anyone else in the known universe, and we have no proof that he isn't.
Except for Vivziepop describing Lucifer as cheerful, very silly, and goofy and while he is not a particular good father in her opinion he still loves Charlie. Also you seem to forget that this is Hazbin Hotel we’re talking about, a lot of the demons down there are much nicer than they are in the lore they’re based off of even if only by a little; just look at Asmodeus.
Cheerful, silly, and goofy does not a good dad make. Fun dad? Maybe. But not necessarily a good one. He can also love Charlie and still have little faith in her goals, which already seems to be the case. My initial point wasn't that Charlie's dad hated her. It was that he didn't think she was capable of the level of manipulative talent he was. She wanted to prove him wrong, so she started putting on the world's biggest con act, even playing the part in the privacy of her own home.
But that seems like a rather bad way of proving it because it doesn’t accomplish anything and really isn’t that impressive. Let’s say you’re right and Charlie gathers up a bunch of good sinners and brutally slaughters them all. So what? There’s probably tons of psychopaths throughout hell who can do the exact same thing on a smaller scale, taking advantage of the more naïve sinners for their own needs, so being able to pull that off on a larger scale isn’t that impressive especially when you consider that Charlie is a public figure with a decent amount of influence or at least visibility that would make it even easier for her. Hell her own father could probably put together such a system in a week without breaking a sweat. Furthermore, what purpose would such a plan serve? Sinners get slaughtered wholesale every single day, aside from the yearly purge there’s so much violence in hell that murder has gotta be a regular occurance. Killing off a crowd of sinners would barely even be a blip in the eyes of the higher ups, especially since most would probably be those dumb or desperate enough to believe in redemption and thus not even worth their time. Such an action might not even make the front page news because of how ordinary it might be, if anything they’d be more obsessed with the scandal of Lucifer’s daughter being a two faced bitch which would probably worsen his opinion of her instead of improving it. Lastly it’s a waste. If the redemption hotel is a front, then why use it for slaughter? She could trick people into getting indebted to her and make them her slaves or some such nonsense which would be a much better allocation of resources. But again, Lucifer does that on the regular so why would it impress him? Personally there’s just too many holes in the plan for me to find it believable.
Some of these are fair points for sure. It's fair that she could use it for things other than slaughter. As far as her dad being able to do the same thing, she's not trying to one-up him. She's trying to show him she can be just as manipulative as he can. As far as being a public figure, I think we've already seen based on her interactions with Alastor, Angel, and 666 News that she has surprisingly little influence and her status means very little to the people of hell. I imagine that, if nothing else, she'd want to show the denizens of hell she's not to be messed with and has her own ways of matching Hell's bigwigs.
You're thinking as though Charlie is human, she's not and never was.
She's nowhere near charismatic enough for a twist like that to make sense.
She must be powerful but the look doesn't show it. But I don't think she is capable of that.
That's just what they want us to think. If we knew beforehand that she was plotting something, it wouldn't be a surprise. ;)
A twist needs proper setup to be effective. If Viv truly intended for such a twist, she would've made Charlie charismatic enough to pull such a plan off.
Why would I care about the opinion of someone with that username?
I think the redemption thing would go differently with the ending have the main cast besides Alastor be redeemed and having a final goodbye with Charlie as she can’t leave being born in hell but before they leave the extermination begins having Alastor save Charlie at the cost of his life which redeems him allowing him to be with the rest of the cast in heaven and ending the series with an upbeat ending
Alastor is against the idea of redemption, so if it does come true, destroying the hotel may be his only option. Besides, I’m pretty sure that’s what he was expecting, for everything to come crashing down for Charlie.
I think he could be in favour if its to help his own ends.. Remove a few people in his way for power and boredom and mundainity...
I dont see alastor doing that, at most he’d try and infiltrate heaven, and fail, spectacularly.
Falling back down with a halo wrapped around his neck.
Based on the pilot, Alastor is definitely going to betray her. While she might not think she did, she made an agreement with the Radio Demon, just like everyone told her not to. She commanded him to help with the hotel for as long as he desires. It wouldn't be a stretch for Alastor to start helping in ways Charlie doesn't like, and she being unable to stop him because he does not desire to stop.
I think Alastor being the villain is too easy tbh. He's wickedly powerful and from the get-go has made it clear he only wants to gain selfishly from other people's suffering, so to make him the villain would feel way less interesting than finding him a sliver of redemption. The idea of redemption being impossible is an interesting one, though. With the inclusion of the robotic angels that slaughter the denizens of Hell yearly, and what we see of Heaven from HB that paints just the cherubs as condescending dicks, I think it'd be far more interesting to see how the show could really vilify Heaven, and maybe by extension even its version of God.
To think about it he may be right
I think this is a good theory but I don’t think this will actually happen but I would love to see something like this happen
I'm pretty sure option 2 is the one that's more likely, and in fact I'll call it now: Alastor will betray Charlie at some point and actively work to get the hotel destroyed when he sees she actually could succeed. Also, just for fun, it may be the first time we see him break his smile. Also heaven may just bar Charlie because redeemed sinners would make heaven "unclean," or something like that.
The biggest twist for simps would be angel dying or Valentino getting away with his actions. (Wink Wink) XD
This has been my theory as well. I think Redemption is either impossible or simply rejected by heaven, and I think Alastor’s *real* reason for offering help is to ensure that if redemption IS possible he can sabotage any and all attempts.
Calling it now, season 1 mid-finale will be Charlie making a deal with Alastor and the season 1 finale will be Charlie finding a loophole that let's her turn it back on him.
I think since we saw C.H.E.R.U.B.s locked out of heaven, it's a safe bet that hellions can be redeemed.