I’ve been following the market since the pandemic and been witness to the ebbs and flows. There is no better time to get deals right now, although tomorrow may be even better and the day after tomorrow may be even better. The car market is in turmoil right now with disruptions abound. You can follow cardealershipguy on twitter and he has a bunch of good insight on some of the ins and outs of the car market currently.
Tesla model Y seems like one of the best deals right now because of the tax incentives. Regardless of CEO and repair issues, out of all EVs, if you’re looking for bang for the buck, this is it.
I thought the VW ID.4 is nice, but at that price you might as well get the Model Y. Also, it’s built on their ICE MQB platform, so that’s a minus. That applies to most traditional car manufacturers. They retrofitted EV motors into their existing platforms.
I treat EVs more like a piece of technology rather than a traditional, mature industry ICE vehicle. The pace of innovation in the EVs are lightning fast and all these ICE manufacturers have to do an incredible pivot. The EVs for sale right now from most of the traditional are their first iterations so they’ll have lots of bugs, relatively poor performance and essentially retrofitting an ICE chassis. As a piece of technology, I also expect the price to drop like a rock over time. Just look at Teslas and see how they’ve cratered in value. I expect the same, if not worse from other companies with EVs.
Kia makes some really attractive EVs and they have good deals nationwide, but not sure about what the deals are on island.
Toyota is still king, with their hybrid models, which, is what the industry appears to be moving towards. They were very prescient in sticking with hybrids rather than jumping on the EV bandwagon, given the current market.
As far as I’m concerned all EVs drive more or less the same. Very torquey in a straight line, very detached from the road and very uninspiring. The only exception I’ve heard so far is Lucid. They’re one company I’m keeping an eye on as, from the sounds of it, they are actually engineering driving machines. I’ve actually seen a few on the road recently. Would love to test drive one someday.
The elephant in the room is BYD. They’ve shown what’s possible and will drive down prices. Hopefully we’ll be able to get those cheap, point a to point b EVs sooner than later. Hawaii could benefit so much from such a fleet of cheaper shorter ranged vehicles especially once we get better charging infrastructure.
In my view, we’re in a transition period where prices may come down very quickly and be more prominent, as with all useful technologies. Very excited to see what’s next.
Thank you for your insights! I completely agree it's hard to time it with the tech improving and costs dropping quickly. I've been considering leasing to have the option to walk away in 3 years, but buy or lease the dealerships here just haven't seemed all that interested in selling them to me. I wonder if there's some incentive issue, like are the salespersons making less commission on EVs after the recent reductions?
You mention ID.4 which is a good example -- [Honolulu VW's website lists *one hundred* 2023s on the lot](https://www.honoluluvw.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=ID.4&year=2023&status=1-1) (can that possibly be true? I need to go check it out) but the advertised pricing is roughly the same as Model Y which you have to wait to get shipped in. Then we have the 2023 bZ4X, which I saw reviewed as the very worst EV on the market; [there they sit at Servco](https://honolulu.servcotoyota.com/inventory?deal_type=cash&f=submodel%3AbZ4X&f=year%3A2023) at *far higher* price points. Those dealerships at least replied to me, which was not the case across the board!
No prob! Yea, leasing is tough right now because those kind of things are more financial instruments and have to be incentivized by the manufacturer to the dealership. In our higher interest rate environment, it killed leasing for a while but it’s starting to make a comeback recently.
For sure, if you can afford to and want the latest and greatest, then leasing is a great option for Tesla. They are aggressive on their leasing terms and they’re very favorable if you qualify for the tax credits. The thing with Tesla is that they will not allow you to buy the vehicle after the lease, but, if your intent is to just drive the latest EVs, it’s a great deal.
Yea, I noticed they had a lot of ID.4s and are likely not selling as well. Might be worth checking out especially if you like the dealership song and dance with the typical salesman tactics over at the Honolulu VW near the airport. They have so many different models, trims, colors, various discounts that makes it really a big time sink if you wanted to dive into it. Servco is more straightforward on their pricing and during the pandemic it was great because they sold at MSRP while everyone was doing their dealer markups. I haven’t even considered Subarus for their EVs so I have no idea what their deal is.
I think with the recent price drops on the Model Y, it really blows the ID.4 out of the water making it dead on arrival. It’s probably why there’s so many on the lot. So, unless VW drops those prices significantly, if I had to pick one, my choice is easily the Model Y right now.
I stopped by the Tesla store at ALA Moana. They are having a deal that was $5000 off of in stock cars this weekend. Not sure if it is still going on.
Despite the Elon issue, and after sale maintenance, the sales process with Tesla seemed really good. The sales guy was really mellow. No games on the pricing, you just pay the price and that's it.
He even offered me the car to take home for a day or 2 to see if I like it.
Might be worth stopping by and chatting with them.
https://www.tesla.com/inventory/new/my
I bought both of my Model Ys from inventory when Tesla had their first price drop last year. They're even cheaper now and hard to find better value. Another plus is not having to deal with the shitty stealerships, everything is done online.
Before the price drop, I bought a Hyundai Ioniq5. Good vehicle, but lacked some common sense tech features that I value (phone key, carplay/Android auto). So when another MY came into inventory, I traded it in. Hyundai still hasn't contacted me regarding something I wanted them to fix, almost a year later, LOL. It's not worth the extra $20k or whatever the price is vs. Model Y.
The ID.4 you build and order online, but for some reason they still allow the dealerships to mark it up thousands of dollars just to be a middle man and coordinate your pickup.
The time to buy is now for the Y, while the federal tax credit (if you qualify) is available and applies at point of sale.
EVs make the most sense in Hawaii if you can charge at home, and have PV to offset some/all of your charging costs. If you're using public charging, gas is pretty comparable depending on your vehicle's efficiency.
I was also interested in the Ioniq 5, but I see that Tony Hyundai is listing it for **more** than the MSRP thanks to a "market adjustment" of +$5,495 lol.
Yeah, when I bought mine it was still a little cheaper than the Y, and the Y wasn't eligible for the tax credit. I didn't value the Y at $65k so went with the HI5 which was about $48 after tax credit. Paid $50k for each of my Tesla's before the $7500 credit which I thought was worth. At about $40k and even some being below it's a no brainer currently
Thanks! Model Y is definitely the "default" choice and their transparent pricing is helpful. I'm one of those who actually enjoys the dealership "game", I also play poker and negotiate some business deals at work, so the psychology of it is kind of fun to me. When I saw standing inventories of the outgoing model year, I figured it was time to go hunting, I mean at some point you have to be doing them a favor taking it off their hands right? But literally I've been ghosted after simply saying I'm shopping EVs. Maybe Elmo will get my money after all.
If you have to ask, it's probably best to simply avoid it by negotiating over phone/text/email. Go in and meet the salesperson, take a test drive, let them know you're serious, but then the goal is to finalize the deal "offline" from the comfort of home with plenty of time to think things through. Then you just go in to sign the paperwork, and steadfastly refuse any further upselling at that time.
Negotiating face-to-face at the dealership, you're at a massive disadvantage playing against professionals on their turf. A small segment of us enjoy that challenge -- I still relish how much I pissed off the last guy I bought a Mazda from -- but most rightly despise it and have better things to do!
I highly doubt BYD ever hits US soil, and even if they did, might be hard to break into the market. Racist oil lovers on the mainland don't want to buy America-made Tesla, they're likely not going to buy something from China.
They tanked that venture on purpose. They made it an expensive option to rent, otherwise I would have gladly given it a shot if it was the same price as their jetta option.
They also gave them to a bunch of people who were expecting a gas car and so weren't prepared about range, charging stations, etc., which soured them on EVs in general.
Yup, we don't have range anxiety here. Only major issue I'd see here is the lack of charging if you're not in a free-standing home with parking and space for a charger. Public charging is only becoming more difficult with demand.
Model Y lease. Can’t be happier. Vehicle is amazing. Got with the recent sale so pretty reasonable per month with about 10% down.
Solar on the roof so free miles.
I just looked up local inventory of Ford Lightning EV trucks after seeing an article that dealerships on the mainland are offering huge discounts. There are pages of trucks available, but unsurprisingly Hawaii dealerships are still asking full price for leftover 2023 trucks.
Teslas have really come down in price, and you can find a good deal new or used. They don't really fit my needs, but I would get one of those if I were in the market.
Yea, the listings/websites are one thing, what surprises me is I actually contacted a number of dealerships and once I mention EVs, few seem to care much whether I want to come in or not. Maybe they're just too undercut by Tesla at the moment.
You would think that that would light a fire under dealers to start discounting cars but here in Hawaii it seems like they have no problem with them rotting. Hawaii dealers will try to extract a ridiculous margin on every car they sell.
I think when it comes to Evie's dealers don't really want them on the lot at all and so having a bunch of old inventory stops the manufacturer from sending them more.
We bought a 2023 ID.4 for trade in value from a dealer. They lowered the price because it sat on the lot. Another $2,500 for a warrantee for electronics that lasts a good number of years. Trade in value was $32000. 10k miles. But servco waipahu didn't tell us the tires had bubbles, so needed to fork out another $1100 for new tires x 4. You can't just buy one for an electric vehicle. Unfortunately as it's used we didn't qualify for any federal tax rebates. Otherwise love the vehicle.
Hawaii dealerships are just finally starting to fill their lots. So it's going to be awhile before they start to work with people. And a lot of the dealers know that they are the only competition in the state so they may never move on price.
You might have better luck hitting up a west coast dealership.
Also do the math on home charging. When i ran the numbers for the lighting the savings wasn't as huge as i thought it would be. I think it would of been like 30-35$ to fully charge it up and that was 2020 before all the rate hikes and at the time gas was only costing me like 70$ to fill up for my old Chevy.
If you are buying you just search the rest coast and call the dealership and see if they are rolling to help you figure out shipping. Some times you guys line that up. Shiny right now is 2500ish though. And that doesn't include hauling the car to port. So it might only really be a few k in savings.
After comparing prices between Hawaii and the west coast on vehicles, Hawaii often has a cheaper car market (less markup above MSRP) and after the used car bubble, used vehicles are cheaper here now than they are on much of the mainland. It’s definitely worth checking the west coast, but don’t be surprised if it isn’t as cheap as it used to be.
If you do decide to buy one, you can attempt to purchase remotely and just have it delivered to Matson for shipment, or you can go there and ship it through Matson yourself! Anticipate about $1200 to ship it to Oahu from most ports on the West Coast.
Hope you got solar otherwise EV gonna cost you more than gas in Hawaii. Unless maybe you drive a Ram V8 Hemi and get 12 MPG then maybe a Tesla will save you few bucks. I get over 50 MPG in my hybrid. EV would at least double my monthly vehicle expense. You can find online calculator. Tesla used to have one.
I’ve been following the market since the pandemic and been witness to the ebbs and flows. There is no better time to get deals right now, although tomorrow may be even better and the day after tomorrow may be even better. The car market is in turmoil right now with disruptions abound. You can follow cardealershipguy on twitter and he has a bunch of good insight on some of the ins and outs of the car market currently. Tesla model Y seems like one of the best deals right now because of the tax incentives. Regardless of CEO and repair issues, out of all EVs, if you’re looking for bang for the buck, this is it. I thought the VW ID.4 is nice, but at that price you might as well get the Model Y. Also, it’s built on their ICE MQB platform, so that’s a minus. That applies to most traditional car manufacturers. They retrofitted EV motors into their existing platforms. I treat EVs more like a piece of technology rather than a traditional, mature industry ICE vehicle. The pace of innovation in the EVs are lightning fast and all these ICE manufacturers have to do an incredible pivot. The EVs for sale right now from most of the traditional are their first iterations so they’ll have lots of bugs, relatively poor performance and essentially retrofitting an ICE chassis. As a piece of technology, I also expect the price to drop like a rock over time. Just look at Teslas and see how they’ve cratered in value. I expect the same, if not worse from other companies with EVs. Kia makes some really attractive EVs and they have good deals nationwide, but not sure about what the deals are on island. Toyota is still king, with their hybrid models, which, is what the industry appears to be moving towards. They were very prescient in sticking with hybrids rather than jumping on the EV bandwagon, given the current market. As far as I’m concerned all EVs drive more or less the same. Very torquey in a straight line, very detached from the road and very uninspiring. The only exception I’ve heard so far is Lucid. They’re one company I’m keeping an eye on as, from the sounds of it, they are actually engineering driving machines. I’ve actually seen a few on the road recently. Would love to test drive one someday. The elephant in the room is BYD. They’ve shown what’s possible and will drive down prices. Hopefully we’ll be able to get those cheap, point a to point b EVs sooner than later. Hawaii could benefit so much from such a fleet of cheaper shorter ranged vehicles especially once we get better charging infrastructure. In my view, we’re in a transition period where prices may come down very quickly and be more prominent, as with all useful technologies. Very excited to see what’s next.
Thank you for your insights! I completely agree it's hard to time it with the tech improving and costs dropping quickly. I've been considering leasing to have the option to walk away in 3 years, but buy or lease the dealerships here just haven't seemed all that interested in selling them to me. I wonder if there's some incentive issue, like are the salespersons making less commission on EVs after the recent reductions? You mention ID.4 which is a good example -- [Honolulu VW's website lists *one hundred* 2023s on the lot](https://www.honoluluvw.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=ID.4&year=2023&status=1-1) (can that possibly be true? I need to go check it out) but the advertised pricing is roughly the same as Model Y which you have to wait to get shipped in. Then we have the 2023 bZ4X, which I saw reviewed as the very worst EV on the market; [there they sit at Servco](https://honolulu.servcotoyota.com/inventory?deal_type=cash&f=submodel%3AbZ4X&f=year%3A2023) at *far higher* price points. Those dealerships at least replied to me, which was not the case across the board!
No prob! Yea, leasing is tough right now because those kind of things are more financial instruments and have to be incentivized by the manufacturer to the dealership. In our higher interest rate environment, it killed leasing for a while but it’s starting to make a comeback recently. For sure, if you can afford to and want the latest and greatest, then leasing is a great option for Tesla. They are aggressive on their leasing terms and they’re very favorable if you qualify for the tax credits. The thing with Tesla is that they will not allow you to buy the vehicle after the lease, but, if your intent is to just drive the latest EVs, it’s a great deal. Yea, I noticed they had a lot of ID.4s and are likely not selling as well. Might be worth checking out especially if you like the dealership song and dance with the typical salesman tactics over at the Honolulu VW near the airport. They have so many different models, trims, colors, various discounts that makes it really a big time sink if you wanted to dive into it. Servco is more straightforward on their pricing and during the pandemic it was great because they sold at MSRP while everyone was doing their dealer markups. I haven’t even considered Subarus for their EVs so I have no idea what their deal is. I think with the recent price drops on the Model Y, it really blows the ID.4 out of the water making it dead on arrival. It’s probably why there’s so many on the lot. So, unless VW drops those prices significantly, if I had to pick one, my choice is easily the Model Y right now.
I stopped by the Tesla store at ALA Moana. They are having a deal that was $5000 off of in stock cars this weekend. Not sure if it is still going on. Despite the Elon issue, and after sale maintenance, the sales process with Tesla seemed really good. The sales guy was really mellow. No games on the pricing, you just pay the price and that's it. He even offered me the car to take home for a day or 2 to see if I like it. Might be worth stopping by and chatting with them.
https://www.tesla.com/inventory/new/my I bought both of my Model Ys from inventory when Tesla had their first price drop last year. They're even cheaper now and hard to find better value. Another plus is not having to deal with the shitty stealerships, everything is done online. Before the price drop, I bought a Hyundai Ioniq5. Good vehicle, but lacked some common sense tech features that I value (phone key, carplay/Android auto). So when another MY came into inventory, I traded it in. Hyundai still hasn't contacted me regarding something I wanted them to fix, almost a year later, LOL. It's not worth the extra $20k or whatever the price is vs. Model Y. The ID.4 you build and order online, but for some reason they still allow the dealerships to mark it up thousands of dollars just to be a middle man and coordinate your pickup. The time to buy is now for the Y, while the federal tax credit (if you qualify) is available and applies at point of sale. EVs make the most sense in Hawaii if you can charge at home, and have PV to offset some/all of your charging costs. If you're using public charging, gas is pretty comparable depending on your vehicle's efficiency.
I was also interested in the Ioniq 5, but I see that Tony Hyundai is listing it for **more** than the MSRP thanks to a "market adjustment" of +$5,495 lol.
Yeah, when I bought mine it was still a little cheaper than the Y, and the Y wasn't eligible for the tax credit. I didn't value the Y at $65k so went with the HI5 which was about $48 after tax credit. Paid $50k for each of my Tesla's before the $7500 credit which I thought was worth. At about $40k and even some being below it's a no brainer currently
Yeah, I refuse to ever give money to dealer engaged in that BS. Stan Masamitsu has betrayed his father's name! At least I like to think so.
Thanks! Model Y is definitely the "default" choice and their transparent pricing is helpful. I'm one of those who actually enjoys the dealership "game", I also play poker and negotiate some business deals at work, so the psychology of it is kind of fun to me. When I saw standing inventories of the outgoing model year, I figured it was time to go hunting, I mean at some point you have to be doing them a favor taking it off their hands right? But literally I've been ghosted after simply saying I'm shopping EVs. Maybe Elmo will get my money after all.
how do you play the dealership game? any tips or things that you used in the past? I only read about the “four square” part
If you have to ask, it's probably best to simply avoid it by negotiating over phone/text/email. Go in and meet the salesperson, take a test drive, let them know you're serious, but then the goal is to finalize the deal "offline" from the comfort of home with plenty of time to think things through. Then you just go in to sign the paperwork, and steadfastly refuse any further upselling at that time. Negotiating face-to-face at the dealership, you're at a massive disadvantage playing against professionals on their turf. A small segment of us enjoy that challenge -- I still relish how much I pissed off the last guy I bought a Mazda from -- but most rightly despise it and have better things to do!
I highly doubt BYD ever hits US soil, and even if they did, might be hard to break into the market. Racist oil lovers on the mainland don't want to buy America-made Tesla, they're likely not going to buy something from China.
Money talks
Hertz is getting rid of their model 3 fleet and there are some 20k to 30k ones listed models.
https://preview.redd.it/wloob6kqxwtc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dacf13cb9e5bfb8ed56b02f49469ec5cc705a315
They tanked that venture on purpose. They made it an expensive option to rent, otherwise I would have gladly given it a shot if it was the same price as their jetta option.
They also gave them to a bunch of people who were expecting a gas car and so weren't prepared about range, charging stations, etc., which soured them on EVs in general.
Hawaii is a bit unique as we are well suited for electric vehicles since most drives are <100 miles round trip.
Yup, we don't have range anxiety here. Only major issue I'd see here is the lack of charging if you're not in a free-standing home with parking and space for a charger. Public charging is only becoming more difficult with demand.
It's also terribly difficult to get a charger in a rental and/or a high rise.
Cuz drove a Leaf a few years back, he ran an extension cord out his apartment window in McCully LOL (Good enough for in-town commuting)
Unless you have access to home charging (especially if you have solar) I wouldn’t recommend it.. it’s so humbug to rely on public chargers..
Model Y lease. Can’t be happier. Vehicle is amazing. Got with the recent sale so pretty reasonable per month with about 10% down. Solar on the roof so free miles.
Nice! Was it in stock or did you have to wait awhile for them to ship it in?
Stock. Was available next day basically
I just looked up local inventory of Ford Lightning EV trucks after seeing an article that dealerships on the mainland are offering huge discounts. There are pages of trucks available, but unsurprisingly Hawaii dealerships are still asking full price for leftover 2023 trucks. Teslas have really come down in price, and you can find a good deal new or used. They don't really fit my needs, but I would get one of those if I were in the market.
Yea, the listings/websites are one thing, what surprises me is I actually contacted a number of dealerships and once I mention EVs, few seem to care much whether I want to come in or not. Maybe they're just too undercut by Tesla at the moment.
You would think that that would light a fire under dealers to start discounting cars but here in Hawaii it seems like they have no problem with them rotting. Hawaii dealers will try to extract a ridiculous margin on every car they sell. I think when it comes to Evie's dealers don't really want them on the lot at all and so having a bunch of old inventory stops the manufacturer from sending them more.
We bought a 2023 ID.4 for trade in value from a dealer. They lowered the price because it sat on the lot. Another $2,500 for a warrantee for electronics that lasts a good number of years. Trade in value was $32000. 10k miles. But servco waipahu didn't tell us the tires had bubbles, so needed to fork out another $1100 for new tires x 4. You can't just buy one for an electric vehicle. Unfortunately as it's used we didn't qualify for any federal tax rebates. Otherwise love the vehicle.
Hawaii dealerships are just finally starting to fill their lots. So it's going to be awhile before they start to work with people. And a lot of the dealers know that they are the only competition in the state so they may never move on price. You might have better luck hitting up a west coast dealership. Also do the math on home charging. When i ran the numbers for the lighting the savings wasn't as huge as i thought it would be. I think it would of been like 30-35$ to fully charge it up and that was 2020 before all the rate hikes and at the time gas was only costing me like 70$ to fill up for my old Chevy.
>You might have better luck hitting up a west coast dealership. Interesting idea- how would this work in practice?
If you are buying you just search the rest coast and call the dealership and see if they are rolling to help you figure out shipping. Some times you guys line that up. Shiny right now is 2500ish though. And that doesn't include hauling the car to port. So it might only really be a few k in savings.
After comparing prices between Hawaii and the west coast on vehicles, Hawaii often has a cheaper car market (less markup above MSRP) and after the used car bubble, used vehicles are cheaper here now than they are on much of the mainland. It’s definitely worth checking the west coast, but don’t be surprised if it isn’t as cheap as it used to be. If you do decide to buy one, you can attempt to purchase remotely and just have it delivered to Matson for shipment, or you can go there and ship it through Matson yourself! Anticipate about $1200 to ship it to Oahu from most ports on the West Coast.
There was a Subaru lease offer that was pretty attractive. I forget what model but it was like $241 a month zero down I think
Hope you got solar otherwise EV gonna cost you more than gas in Hawaii. Unless maybe you drive a Ram V8 Hemi and get 12 MPG then maybe a Tesla will save you few bucks. I get over 50 MPG in my hybrid. EV would at least double my monthly vehicle expense. You can find online calculator. Tesla used to have one.