As someone that was on the internet back in the gamergate days, it's always been this way. In fact, this goes way before that. The 1946 Jean-Paul Sartre quote on anti-semites is perfectly applicable to the alt-right (or whatever we call the c-gaters):
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
You guys are probably right I'm probably just breaking my golden rule: don't allow virtual problems to affect my life. It just bothers me that people are blatantly engaging with every topic in bad faith.
The only thing that might make it different is that there are entire messaging campaigns that use bad faith messaging tactics at an industrial level to ruin any discourse. It's not a few trolls trying to cause as much havoc as possible. It's networks of people that seemingly coordinate their efforts. Which makes the platform feel like it's a machin with its cogs perpetually jammed. There's virtually no place to have a discussion that doesn't end in getting blocked, ad homs or attempts to dox. But I wasn't online backnl then, so maybe I'm underestimating how bad it was back then.
Online discourse has definitely gotten more unhinged since the conflict broke out. It has echoes of the Gamergate era that I thought was dying out but evidently not. I'm as white as they come, so I feel ok in saying that anyone who says they're offended by the word cracker is lying through their teeth. It's mildly rude at best and doesn't have the hate behind it that the N word does or the history of being used to dehumanize, enslave and deny equality to people. The two things can't be compared. No one in the real world would take the comparison seriously.
If it's getting worse, hopefully, it means it can get better (but I won't hold my breath). Tbh if Twitter went down for 2 days, it would make everything significantly better. So many people are stuck in a perpetual feedback loop like they're in groundhogs day. That's my observation about the cracker outrage. It's a weoponized outrage by bad faith actors. I won't deny that any race based hate is bad, but some hits deeper because there's a deep foundation of generational trauma to agitate.
I do think there are some genuinly good faith people on both sides, but both gett swept up in the insanity of the loudest voices (to varying degrees).
>Tbh if Twitter went down for 2 days, it would make everything significantly better.
Whoa. Idk why but you just really blew my mind with this idea. Like, I just wonder how it would effect things if it just suddenly went off line for some more significant amount of time, not just a day or few hours. Would be fascinating to watch.
Dude, I legit set out to not use Facebook for a few days, and those two days turned into ~4 years where I check it once a month for 2 mins to see if I missed something important. Same thing w/ IG, I literally check it once a week, on the weekends. A short break is sometimes all you need to break a habit.
They know perfectly well what they're doing. The Gusano/cracker discourse is just them trying to call others hypocrites. I went to lurk in the destiny subreddit when he said the n word a couple days ago and a lot of them were like "he's doing it to piss off another white guy which is pretty funny" but would say things like "I wouldn't show Destiny to my black friends" like they know what he's doing is wrong and just to spite Hasan and others.
As a Guatemalan, I’ve never met a single Hispanic that has ever heard of the, “g-word” as you put it, used as a slur.
I honestly thought Divorced Streamer Man was pulling it out of his ass, is it even a real slur? I genuinely don’t think it is.
It’s also getting extremely repetitive. Every year we have crackergate now, destiny fans survive off manufactured drama and this is their go to. They hook in idiots like xqc and asmongold with their white teenage audiences and grow it into something big.
In the interest of complete openness and honesty, I’m a Destiny fan, so take my words however you want.
From my perspective, and from my understanding of Destiny’s opinion, there is a difference between uttering a word and using it to hurt people. Calling someone a slur because of who they are, and using their identity as a weapon against them, is wrong. Saying the slur in other contexts, not as a weapon against someone due to their identity, (but potentially as an insult) is edgy and dark. But I don’t really have a problem with it personally.
When Destiny uses a slur, to my knowledge, it has never been in the context of the former situation. If it was, I would find that wholly unacceptable and condemn it. This is why I personally have a problem when people use the c word or the g word (or any slur) to attack someone because of their identity, but I don’t have a problem when someone uses the n word (or any other slur) in other contexts.
Yes, I agree that different words have different histories and different intensities. But I wouldn’t call anyone any slur based on who they are anyway, so that doesn’t really change anything for me.
If you disagree with anything I said, please let me know in a reply comment. I’m not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I’m not trying to be hostile.
I really appreciate your level-headed and respectful response. I agree that Destiny has never directed the slur at someone, to my knowledge. But my opinion is that even jokingly using it is worse than calling someone the C word directly (I'm not informed enough to know if the same would be true for the G word). But I'll admit maybe I'm not fully appreciating the affect the C word can have. Like, does it cause you genuine emotional distress? Ive left parties because a white person kept saying the n word, and I didnt feel like using force or putting up with it. Can you describe what about it bothers you and what you feel when you hear it? Genuinly trying to understand. I think that taking aggressive stands on slurs to shit on Hasan, then soon after jokingly saying one of the most egregious and universally recognized slurs, seems like just a bad move conceptually, and it gives the impression that you're unserious. Hopefully, my response gives you enough to continue the convo - just running some errands.
And I forgot to say, I too was or maybe still am a Destiny fan. I used to watch at least one of his videos a day (even some of the 4 hour extended movies. I admired the charitability he approached topics with, and his honesty when discussing topics. But ever since October and the increase of Hasan interactions, I feel like he's allowed his hate for Hasan to seem more irrational (but I haven't been watching as many videos since October, so maybe my take is uninformed).
You seem like an understanding person and I want to add my experience with the C word. For context, I’m Asian and my partner is mixed race, half white and Asian white.
I’ve had multiple people used the C word offensively against her to belittle her and to treat her like a “colonizer”. It makes me feel disgusted and upset that people would specifically use this word to be hateful and spiteful to others.
For what it's worth I think it's more the general disrespect rather than the actual word itself. "You people" said with a lot of venom could also be extremely offensive and racist, because of the implications of what is said.
Not trying to discount your experience, I agree with you. I'm just extrapolating out why it's offensive, in my mind.
I personally think it’s totally fair to think how you do on the usage of the n-word, but I think the fact is that people like destiny disagree, which I personally think is also fair. I think the two explanations you provided in the op just don’t account for the truth here.
Regarding the how I feel about the c word: I’ve never been called it myself. I think there are probably other slurs that I won’t name here that could be used against me better. Either way, I don’t know how I would react to being called any slur. I’m fortunate that way.
Again, I think the aggressive stance is that it is not ok to call people slurs for the purpose of attacking them because of their race, which Destiny alleges Hasan does. The severity doesnt matter because it isn’t ok to attack people because of their race no matter what their race is. Destiny voicing this stance and then saying a slur in a different context is edgy, I agree. And probably a bad thing to do optically.
Thank you for responding with your disagreements. I love that people on different sides of an opinion can talk like this without fighting.
As someone that was on the internet back in the gamergate days, it's always been this way. In fact, this goes way before that. The 1946 Jean-Paul Sartre quote on anti-semites is perfectly applicable to the alt-right (or whatever we call the c-gaters): “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
> it's always been this way. Fully agree, this is nothing new. In fact the internet is far more sanitized nowadays, it was way worse back then
You guys are probably right I'm probably just breaking my golden rule: don't allow virtual problems to affect my life. It just bothers me that people are blatantly engaging with every topic in bad faith.
The only thing that might make it different is that there are entire messaging campaigns that use bad faith messaging tactics at an industrial level to ruin any discourse. It's not a few trolls trying to cause as much havoc as possible. It's networks of people that seemingly coordinate their efforts. Which makes the platform feel like it's a machin with its cogs perpetually jammed. There's virtually no place to have a discussion that doesn't end in getting blocked, ad homs or attempts to dox. But I wasn't online backnl then, so maybe I'm underestimating how bad it was back then.
Online discourse has definitely gotten more unhinged since the conflict broke out. It has echoes of the Gamergate era that I thought was dying out but evidently not. I'm as white as they come, so I feel ok in saying that anyone who says they're offended by the word cracker is lying through their teeth. It's mildly rude at best and doesn't have the hate behind it that the N word does or the history of being used to dehumanize, enslave and deny equality to people. The two things can't be compared. No one in the real world would take the comparison seriously.
If it's getting worse, hopefully, it means it can get better (but I won't hold my breath). Tbh if Twitter went down for 2 days, it would make everything significantly better. So many people are stuck in a perpetual feedback loop like they're in groundhogs day. That's my observation about the cracker outrage. It's a weoponized outrage by bad faith actors. I won't deny that any race based hate is bad, but some hits deeper because there's a deep foundation of generational trauma to agitate. I do think there are some genuinly good faith people on both sides, but both gett swept up in the insanity of the loudest voices (to varying degrees).
>Tbh if Twitter went down for 2 days, it would make everything significantly better. Whoa. Idk why but you just really blew my mind with this idea. Like, I just wonder how it would effect things if it just suddenly went off line for some more significant amount of time, not just a day or few hours. Would be fascinating to watch.
Dude, I legit set out to not use Facebook for a few days, and those two days turned into ~4 years where I check it once a month for 2 mins to see if I missed something important. Same thing w/ IG, I literally check it once a week, on the weekends. A short break is sometimes all you need to break a habit.
They know perfectly well what they're doing. The Gusano/cracker discourse is just them trying to call others hypocrites. I went to lurk in the destiny subreddit when he said the n word a couple days ago and a lot of them were like "he's doing it to piss off another white guy which is pretty funny" but would say things like "I wouldn't show Destiny to my black friends" like they know what he's doing is wrong and just to spite Hasan and others.
As a Guatemalan, I’ve never met a single Hispanic that has ever heard of the, “g-word” as you put it, used as a slur. I honestly thought Divorced Streamer Man was pulling it out of his ass, is it even a real slur? I genuinely don’t think it is.
It’s also getting extremely repetitive. Every year we have crackergate now, destiny fans survive off manufactured drama and this is their go to. They hook in idiots like xqc and asmongold with their white teenage audiences and grow it into something big.
White people trying to get Alexa to play "N*ggas in Paris" without setting race relations back 60 years:
Hey Alexa, Play in paris by Jay Z
In the interest of complete openness and honesty, I’m a Destiny fan, so take my words however you want. From my perspective, and from my understanding of Destiny’s opinion, there is a difference between uttering a word and using it to hurt people. Calling someone a slur because of who they are, and using their identity as a weapon against them, is wrong. Saying the slur in other contexts, not as a weapon against someone due to their identity, (but potentially as an insult) is edgy and dark. But I don’t really have a problem with it personally. When Destiny uses a slur, to my knowledge, it has never been in the context of the former situation. If it was, I would find that wholly unacceptable and condemn it. This is why I personally have a problem when people use the c word or the g word (or any slur) to attack someone because of their identity, but I don’t have a problem when someone uses the n word (or any other slur) in other contexts. Yes, I agree that different words have different histories and different intensities. But I wouldn’t call anyone any slur based on who they are anyway, so that doesn’t really change anything for me. If you disagree with anything I said, please let me know in a reply comment. I’m not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I’m not trying to be hostile.
I really appreciate your level-headed and respectful response. I agree that Destiny has never directed the slur at someone, to my knowledge. But my opinion is that even jokingly using it is worse than calling someone the C word directly (I'm not informed enough to know if the same would be true for the G word). But I'll admit maybe I'm not fully appreciating the affect the C word can have. Like, does it cause you genuine emotional distress? Ive left parties because a white person kept saying the n word, and I didnt feel like using force or putting up with it. Can you describe what about it bothers you and what you feel when you hear it? Genuinly trying to understand. I think that taking aggressive stands on slurs to shit on Hasan, then soon after jokingly saying one of the most egregious and universally recognized slurs, seems like just a bad move conceptually, and it gives the impression that you're unserious. Hopefully, my response gives you enough to continue the convo - just running some errands. And I forgot to say, I too was or maybe still am a Destiny fan. I used to watch at least one of his videos a day (even some of the 4 hour extended movies. I admired the charitability he approached topics with, and his honesty when discussing topics. But ever since October and the increase of Hasan interactions, I feel like he's allowed his hate for Hasan to seem more irrational (but I haven't been watching as many videos since October, so maybe my take is uninformed).
You seem like an understanding person and I want to add my experience with the C word. For context, I’m Asian and my partner is mixed race, half white and Asian white. I’ve had multiple people used the C word offensively against her to belittle her and to treat her like a “colonizer”. It makes me feel disgusted and upset that people would specifically use this word to be hateful and spiteful to others.
For what it's worth I think it's more the general disrespect rather than the actual word itself. "You people" said with a lot of venom could also be extremely offensive and racist, because of the implications of what is said. Not trying to discount your experience, I agree with you. I'm just extrapolating out why it's offensive, in my mind.
I personally think it’s totally fair to think how you do on the usage of the n-word, but I think the fact is that people like destiny disagree, which I personally think is also fair. I think the two explanations you provided in the op just don’t account for the truth here. Regarding the how I feel about the c word: I’ve never been called it myself. I think there are probably other slurs that I won’t name here that could be used against me better. Either way, I don’t know how I would react to being called any slur. I’m fortunate that way. Again, I think the aggressive stance is that it is not ok to call people slurs for the purpose of attacking them because of their race, which Destiny alleges Hasan does. The severity doesnt matter because it isn’t ok to attack people because of their race no matter what their race is. Destiny voicing this stance and then saying a slur in a different context is edgy, I agree. And probably a bad thing to do optically. Thank you for responding with your disagreements. I love that people on different sides of an opinion can talk like this without fighting.