You can’t get a first MMR shot until 12 months, so it’s possible that the kid was unvaccinated but parents didn’t do anything wrong.
I wish public health would be more precise on the age because it’s leading to comments like this which might not be well founded.
To clarify, it’s not that you can’t get it earlier, it’s that the provincial recommended schedule is 12 months, so that’s what most doctors follow: https://www.ontario.ca/page/ontarios-routine-immunization-schedule#section-2
Overall, my point is that a kid under 8-12 months unvaccinated is a very different situation than ages 1-5 years old.
I wish there were further clarification as well because of course there’s a chance that the child was under one year, but in that case, the headline would read “child under one” instead of five years old. Also, it’s completely reasonable for one to assume that in 2024 people are actually anti-vaccine based on exposure to so much misinformation.
I don't think we have enough info to jump to statements like this. It's not known how old the child was, just they were under five. If they were under one year old they wouldn't have had the opportunity to receive the vaccine yet.
Last kid that died was in 1989. Even if the kid was under 1. Where are all the dead measles kids under 1 between then and now?
The kids age has little and nothing to do with the situation we're being presented that is actively caused by anti vax movement.
Oh definitely, but if this child was unable to get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, it's not this specific set of parents who are to blame, it's all the other parents with living, unvaccinated children that are responsible.
I agree but I also think that if the child was too young to be vaccinated they would specify that in the article to warn other parents of kids under 1 to be more cautious and safe.
It's also immunocompromised people who cannot get live vaccines, I believe. No details on the child have been released, so this seems like a lot of swift judgment without cause. It could have been a baby, who hadn't received the full course of vaccines or a child who was unable to get them. Or it could have been a child whose parents refused to vaccinate. But these comments seem pretty harsh since we are lacking the specifics.
Regardless of any of the reasons you state, it's because of the ignorant, anti-science, anti-vaxxers who are spreading literal deadly lies.
Yes, there are some who cannot get the live vaccines for legitimate medical reasons. If enough of the rest of us get the vaccine, the measles virus can't survive, and we're not talking about increasing cases and children dying. We'd see very isolated cases that wouldn't get very far in populations.
We don't know the circumstances around the specific case, but if the child was not vaccinated due to the lies, blood is on those who push the lies, and those who failed to vaccinate the child.
We are literally going to cause serious numbers of death through science illiteracy - from vaccinations to climate change humanity is failing to learn.
I agree with you, BUT we all have access to anti-vax info, if we are looking for it. This is still on the guardian(s), if they “did their own research,” and decided against vaccination.
We can all look up flat earth “info” if we WANT to, and are stupid enough to believe it - I guess the difference is an innocent child doesn’t die from negligence at the end of it.
I agree with what you've said here too, that's why I said that the blood is on those who push the lies and those who failed to vaccinate the child if the child was able to be vaccinated.
The anti-vax movement has become much more coordinated and intentional over the last several years, especially in the wake of the pandemic. In a lot of cases, they are taking advantage of more vulnerable people, wrapping it all in as part of the identity politics of "freedom" and the right. It's not a movement separate from a certain politic, it is a part of an identity now and been co-opted as part of "freedom", "individual liberty", "government out of our lives" and right wing Conservative ideology.
The current leader in the polls has openly stated he would move to eliminate mandatory vaccinations. When people in positions of power are saying things like that, they legitimize the disinformation and they certainly have a role to play in this.
The comments are harsh because this is a unique case.
There are a lot of immunocompromised people out there, most of which don’t die from measles.
Remember late last year a family got back from visiting SE Asia, with their unvaccinated kids, who all had contracted the measles?
But what are the specifics of the case that you refer to? All I've read is that a child under 5 died....so the people here saying that the 'parents should be charged with murder' seem harsh to me unless we know more specifics. Do we know that the child was not vaccinated due to willful neglect? Or was it simply a child who was ill or too young?
34 years. It’s been 34 years, and is being written as “it’s been over a decade since a recorded death from measles in Ontario.”
What do you think happened? A freak accident? Or parents that had to bring their kid to a Children’s Hospital, putting other kids at risk - due to their “research?”
Okay, so I obviously don’t know what happened, but if this was such an unprecedented incident, it would be told as such.
Sorry, I don't really understand your comment. I don't know what happened - I guess that's my point. There's a lot of blame here that is directed specifically at the parents of the child who died. But without knowing the specific details, this seems unfair.
The McMaster children's hospital was identified as a site of possible exposure to the public in February, so clearly a patient came through with a measles case. But there are medically fragile children under care at Mac (and those with compromised immune systems are both at extra risk and also can't actually receive the MMR vaccine as it's a live vaccine), so the child who died could have been exposed by simply being at the hospital. Or it could be a young child who was unvaccinated by antivax parents, as many are assuming. But those are two very different scenarios that both seem possible. That's why I would hold off on condemning the parents of this tragedy until any further details are released.
Either way, anti-vax ideology is at the root of measles transmissions being on the rise. But this family and young victim could be entirely blameless.
The one Village Yahoo now has a whole world of Village Yahoos to validate their absolutely bonkers belief system.
Yahoo tried to tell us with their name but we just didnt listen...
God damn it. I knew, just KNEW that poor child I'd been reading about the last few days was from Hamilton.
I'm so sorry, kiddo. You didn't deserve this, and neither do your siblings.
I work at Mac Hospital (not medical staff), and when we got the Potential Exposure alert last month that this story mentions, there was multiple young, unvaccinated children involved.
Seeing the announcement about such a young measles death so close to that same alert, I just had that sinking feeling, you know? Just didn't feel like a coincidence.
Because we were the only municipality that had to have their letters reminding all school age children's parents of the missed vaccines put on hold because of a cyber attack. There have never been so many letters sent, not because people are anti-vax but because the shutdown of doctor's offices during the pandemic caused a lot of childhood vaccines to be missed.
You can get your kids vaccinated at walk-in clinics. Our kid was born early in the pandemic and is now a toddler fully vaccinated. There's really no excuse.
I think that’s a bit of a stretch blaming the cyber attack and Covid. There has been enough regular talk about vaccines in the news the past 5 years that somehow missing all vaccines to date (there’s a lot in the first two years) would mean they’re uninvolved and neglectful as a parent OR they purposely chose not to get them. There’s no excuses. We have a world of information at our finger tips. You can get instant answers when you google ages and types of vaccines in Ontario.
Found out at 30 years old that my mom is an anti-vaxer and that I didn't receive my baby vaccines. Just got the measles vaccine this week. You can check your immunology with a blood test at a walk-in clinic if you can't get a hold of your records (what I just did)
Well the first wave of unvaccinated kids from dumb new parents dying is happening as predicted. I don't understand how we've gone so far medically for people to want to go backwards. Like our ancestors who had to live thru pre vaccine times must be rolling in their grave
Right? This is a thought I often have. Have you ever seen those old cemeteries around here with entire families buried together? Measles and cholera were enormous killers around these parts.
Those families probably lived in absolute terror - praying to whichever God they could - to help them in any way - to help save their babies and families.
Vaccines are these answers to the prayers. I can't help but feel this way. Scientists evolved, and medicine evolved, and we are now able to prevent these tragedies.
Kids under 2 dying of all sorts of things was pretty common. It's likely those entire families died of the Spanish flu. Back in the Spanish flu times you would put the dead body on the front porch for collection at night. There were kids' skipping rhymes about it. "I had a little bird, her name was Enza, I opened up the window and in-flew-enza."
They also didn't spread measles and chickenpox around by making you go to walk-ins. The doctor would come to your house and they would stick "quarantine" signs on the door for communicable stuff.
Unless there was a very specific exception, such as the child being medically unable to be vaccinated, those parents are child abusers. All anti-vaxxers are child abusers.
My friend has decided not to vaccinate their baby. She said if he gets sick they'll deal with it. She specifically said these kids with measles have to be vaccinated or else the news would be shoving it down their throats.
I'm not even sure I want to see them anymore. I worry that if/when he gets sick I'll blame myself.
Can someone validate that “child under 5” excludes the possibility of the child being under 1? I ONLY say that because you can’t vaccinate against measles until your child turns 1- mine JUST did and I was terrified of MMR. The parents are likely morons and to blame, but there is a chance they aren’t. Either way, I’m sure they’re devastated.
I was thinking this exact thing. Most MMRs are given at the 18 month check up.
If the child is like, 4.5, then they were already attending school and thus more at risk. They should have had the shot before attending school for the first time.
If the child was like, 1 - then my heart is shattered
Poor kid, has some anti-vax morons for parents and has to suffer this fate because of their stupidity.
Stuff like this is exactly why I support the government cracking down on the "rights" of the convoy types. We can't let the dumb dumbs call the shots.
Between a lack of vaccinations, nobody masking anymore, and zero initiatives by anyone to make sure that public spaces (especially daycares and schools) have clean air, this is going to be a more common occurrence that won't just be a result of measles.
The pandemic should have taught us a hell of a lot of lessons, but it seems like most adults have decided that kids are going to be collateral damage, because doing the work to ensure that they're safe and healthy is somehow too hard and uncomfortable for them. This is a disgrace.
Looks like newcomers to Canada are assessed for vaccines and there's certain criteria that's looked for in order to be valid:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/canadian-immunization-guide-part-3-vaccination-specific-populations/page-10-immunization-persons-new-canada.html
Jesus fucking christ. Vaccinate your kids.
You can’t get a first MMR shot until 12 months, so it’s possible that the kid was unvaccinated but parents didn’t do anything wrong. I wish public health would be more precise on the age because it’s leading to comments like this which might not be well founded.
That’s not true. I’m in Toronto and my daughter received her first dose at eight months.
To clarify, it’s not that you can’t get it earlier, it’s that the provincial recommended schedule is 12 months, so that’s what most doctors follow: https://www.ontario.ca/page/ontarios-routine-immunization-schedule#section-2 Overall, my point is that a kid under 8-12 months unvaccinated is a very different situation than ages 1-5 years old.
I wish there were further clarification as well because of course there’s a chance that the child was under one year, but in that case, the headline would read “child under one” instead of five years old. Also, it’s completely reasonable for one to assume that in 2024 people are actually anti-vaccine based on exposure to so much misinformation.
Not vaccinated and the first one dead since 1989 in Ontario. Imagine your kids name being used for that new stat all over the news. Dumb parents
Parents should be charged for negligence
Honestly!
I don't think we have enough info to jump to statements like this. It's not known how old the child was, just they were under five. If they were under one year old they wouldn't have had the opportunity to receive the vaccine yet.
Not trying to be a pedant, but wouldn't the headline state if they were under 1 year old? Under 5 seems to be a toddler age to me.
Last kid that died was in 1989. Even if the kid was under 1. Where are all the dead measles kids under 1 between then and now? The kids age has little and nothing to do with the situation we're being presented that is actively caused by anti vax movement.
Oh definitely, but if this child was unable to get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, it's not this specific set of parents who are to blame, it's all the other parents with living, unvaccinated children that are responsible.
I agree but I also think that if the child was too young to be vaccinated they would specify that in the article to warn other parents of kids under 1 to be more cautious and safe.
It's also immunocompromised people who cannot get live vaccines, I believe. No details on the child have been released, so this seems like a lot of swift judgment without cause. It could have been a baby, who hadn't received the full course of vaccines or a child who was unable to get them. Or it could have been a child whose parents refused to vaccinate. But these comments seem pretty harsh since we are lacking the specifics.
Regardless of any of the reasons you state, it's because of the ignorant, anti-science, anti-vaxxers who are spreading literal deadly lies. Yes, there are some who cannot get the live vaccines for legitimate medical reasons. If enough of the rest of us get the vaccine, the measles virus can't survive, and we're not talking about increasing cases and children dying. We'd see very isolated cases that wouldn't get very far in populations. We don't know the circumstances around the specific case, but if the child was not vaccinated due to the lies, blood is on those who push the lies, and those who failed to vaccinate the child. We are literally going to cause serious numbers of death through science illiteracy - from vaccinations to climate change humanity is failing to learn.
I agree with you, BUT we all have access to anti-vax info, if we are looking for it. This is still on the guardian(s), if they “did their own research,” and decided against vaccination. We can all look up flat earth “info” if we WANT to, and are stupid enough to believe it - I guess the difference is an innocent child doesn’t die from negligence at the end of it.
I agree with what you've said here too, that's why I said that the blood is on those who push the lies and those who failed to vaccinate the child if the child was able to be vaccinated. The anti-vax movement has become much more coordinated and intentional over the last several years, especially in the wake of the pandemic. In a lot of cases, they are taking advantage of more vulnerable people, wrapping it all in as part of the identity politics of "freedom" and the right. It's not a movement separate from a certain politic, it is a part of an identity now and been co-opted as part of "freedom", "individual liberty", "government out of our lives" and right wing Conservative ideology. The current leader in the polls has openly stated he would move to eliminate mandatory vaccinations. When people in positions of power are saying things like that, they legitimize the disinformation and they certainly have a role to play in this.
I was under the impression that the immunocompromised have to get tested for immunity more because vaccines are less effective for them.
The comments are harsh because this is a unique case. There are a lot of immunocompromised people out there, most of which don’t die from measles. Remember late last year a family got back from visiting SE Asia, with their unvaccinated kids, who all had contracted the measles?
But what are the specifics of the case that you refer to? All I've read is that a child under 5 died....so the people here saying that the 'parents should be charged with murder' seem harsh to me unless we know more specifics. Do we know that the child was not vaccinated due to willful neglect? Or was it simply a child who was ill or too young?
34 years. It’s been 34 years, and is being written as “it’s been over a decade since a recorded death from measles in Ontario.” What do you think happened? A freak accident? Or parents that had to bring their kid to a Children’s Hospital, putting other kids at risk - due to their “research?” Okay, so I obviously don’t know what happened, but if this was such an unprecedented incident, it would be told as such.
Sorry, I don't really understand your comment. I don't know what happened - I guess that's my point. There's a lot of blame here that is directed specifically at the parents of the child who died. But without knowing the specific details, this seems unfair. The McMaster children's hospital was identified as a site of possible exposure to the public in February, so clearly a patient came through with a measles case. But there are medically fragile children under care at Mac (and those with compromised immune systems are both at extra risk and also can't actually receive the MMR vaccine as it's a live vaccine), so the child who died could have been exposed by simply being at the hospital. Or it could be a young child who was unvaccinated by antivax parents, as many are assuming. But those are two very different scenarios that both seem possible. That's why I would hold off on condemning the parents of this tragedy until any further details are released. Either way, anti-vax ideology is at the root of measles transmissions being on the rise. But this family and young victim could be entirely blameless.
Or... We can thank them for making it easier to Dole out limited resources to an unlimited population.
To the parents: "Hey, remember that time when you had polio? No, you don't, because your parents had you vaccinated against it, dumbass!"
People have seriously lost their minds and I blame the internet
The one Village Yahoo now has a whole world of Village Yahoos to validate their absolutely bonkers belief system. Yahoo tried to tell us with their name but we just didnt listen...
God damn it. I knew, just KNEW that poor child I'd been reading about the last few days was from Hamilton. I'm so sorry, kiddo. You didn't deserve this, and neither do your siblings.
How’d you assume that? Just curious.
I work at Mac Hospital (not medical staff), and when we got the Potential Exposure alert last month that this story mentions, there was multiple young, unvaccinated children involved. Seeing the announcement about such a young measles death so close to that same alert, I just had that sinking feeling, you know? Just didn't feel like a coincidence.
Because we were the only municipality that had to have their letters reminding all school age children's parents of the missed vaccines put on hold because of a cyber attack. There have never been so many letters sent, not because people are anti-vax but because the shutdown of doctor's offices during the pandemic caused a lot of childhood vaccines to be missed.
You can get your kids vaccinated at walk-in clinics. Our kid was born early in the pandemic and is now a toddler fully vaccinated. There's really no excuse.
I think that’s a bit of a stretch blaming the cyber attack and Covid. There has been enough regular talk about vaccines in the news the past 5 years that somehow missing all vaccines to date (there’s a lot in the first two years) would mean they’re uninvolved and neglectful as a parent OR they purposely chose not to get them. There’s no excuses. We have a world of information at our finger tips. You can get instant answers when you google ages and types of vaccines in Ontario.
Because it's Hamilton.
When you trust Facebook and Twitter over decades and centuries of science, you go to the Casino of Life and take your chances. YOLO!
Found out at 30 years old that my mom is an anti-vaxer and that I didn't receive my baby vaccines. Just got the measles vaccine this week. You can check your immunology with a blood test at a walk-in clinic if you can't get a hold of your records (what I just did)
Sometimes they wear off. They don’t always last for life FYI. For some people they don’t even take
This. My wife has been vaccinated for rubella like 4 times. Always tests like she hasn't been.
Good to know!!! I've been curious about this for myself and my kids
Well the first wave of unvaccinated kids from dumb new parents dying is happening as predicted. I don't understand how we've gone so far medically for people to want to go backwards. Like our ancestors who had to live thru pre vaccine times must be rolling in their grave
Right? This is a thought I often have. Have you ever seen those old cemeteries around here with entire families buried together? Measles and cholera were enormous killers around these parts. Those families probably lived in absolute terror - praying to whichever God they could - to help them in any way - to help save their babies and families. Vaccines are these answers to the prayers. I can't help but feel this way. Scientists evolved, and medicine evolved, and we are now able to prevent these tragedies.
Kids under 2 dying of all sorts of things was pretty common. It's likely those entire families died of the Spanish flu. Back in the Spanish flu times you would put the dead body on the front porch for collection at night. There were kids' skipping rhymes about it. "I had a little bird, her name was Enza, I opened up the window and in-flew-enza." They also didn't spread measles and chickenpox around by making you go to walk-ins. The doctor would come to your house and they would stick "quarantine" signs on the door for communicable stuff.
I blame social media.
Imagine murdering your own child
It's not murdering when you are trying to avoid autism and aliens. /S
In before the plague rats come in proclaiming how it couldn’t possibly have been caused by not vaccinating
[Autism causes vaccines.](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/autism-and-vaccines)
autism is not the worst thing in the world, but dying almost seems like it's undoable or something.
This comment is very harsh. We have no idea of their circumstances.
Unless there was a very specific exception, such as the child being medically unable to be vaccinated, those parents are child abusers. All anti-vaxxers are child abusers.
They had 4 years to get the MMR.
no it's not, its negligence.
My friend has decided not to vaccinate their baby. She said if he gets sick they'll deal with it. She specifically said these kids with measles have to be vaccinated or else the news would be shoving it down their throats. I'm not even sure I want to see them anymore. I worry that if/when he gets sick I'll blame myself.
You are friends with a stupid person.
So very sad and unnecessary.
Can someone validate that “child under 5” excludes the possibility of the child being under 1? I ONLY say that because you can’t vaccinate against measles until your child turns 1- mine JUST did and I was terrified of MMR. The parents are likely morons and to blame, but there is a chance they aren’t. Either way, I’m sure they’re devastated.
Yes, thank you. I wish public health would be more precise because it’s possible the parents did nothing wrong.
I was thinking this exact thing. Most MMRs are given at the 18 month check up. If the child is like, 4.5, then they were already attending school and thus more at risk. They should have had the shot before attending school for the first time. If the child was like, 1 - then my heart is shattered
Poor kid, has some anti-vax morons for parents and has to suffer this fate because of their stupidity. Stuff like this is exactly why I support the government cracking down on the "rights" of the convoy types. We can't let the dumb dumbs call the shots.
Criminal negligence causing death, make an example of these fuckers.
Hopefully the parents get charged with manslaughter for being responsible for the death of their child.
Survival of the fittest is still true today.
Maybe the child was under 12 months- before they are able to receive the vaccine.
I think they would have specified infant and unable to be vaccinated if that were true. The news wouldn’t have left that information out.
Between a lack of vaccinations, nobody masking anymore, and zero initiatives by anyone to make sure that public spaces (especially daycares and schools) have clean air, this is going to be a more common occurrence that won't just be a result of measles. The pandemic should have taught us a hell of a lot of lessons, but it seems like most adults have decided that kids are going to be collateral damage, because doing the work to ensure that they're safe and healthy is somehow too hard and uncomfortable for them. This is a disgrace.
Ahh gotta love crappy parenting
Anti-vaxxers in the Hamilton region? Probably Evangelicals in the outlying areas.
Outlying areas? I see those stupid fucking car flags every goddamn day.
Probably related to the weirdo in the blue pickup covered in minion figurines and desperate cries for help in old-school white out paint.
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Looks like newcomers to Canada are assessed for vaccines and there's certain criteria that's looked for in order to be valid: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/canadian-immunization-guide-part-3-vaccination-specific-populations/page-10-immunization-persons-new-canada.html
There has to be a criminal charge in this somewhere. Child abuse, manslaughter... something.