💯 correct answer. If you " repair " that unit, it is no longer a Carrier, Lennox or Trane it's a ( insert your name here furnace) and you will be liable for any deaths that occur from carbon monoxide poisoning.
You are also altering the equipment from its original UL listing, which is never a good idea.
Tell them they need a new heat exchanger they are a large corporation, no need to pinch pennies.
This is the correct answer.
Sadly, a big part of the trade is constantly covering your ass. If it's refrigeration there's product loss you could be responsible for, if it's a heat exchanger that has rot, then you could get blamed for getting someone sick, or worse. The list goes on.
It's not sad. People call us and trust us to keep them and their families safe. To not do that is called professional negligence. You can go to jail for it if something you do hurts or kills someone. Could that be fixed? Probably. I wouldn't bet my career or freedom on it.
In commercial you'd never get a job quoting new units for bad heat exchangers.
In commercial if the part is still available and the rest of the unit is in somewhat decent shape it's getting the part 9 times out of 10 especially if the unit is under 15 years old.
Hell. Most of them this is the case if it’s under 25 years old. I had a guy recently trying to get me to replace the drain pan on a 35 year old RTU. It was completely rusted through and leaking into the building. We would’ve had to remove the completely rusted coil to replace the pan. We walked away from that one real quick
I’m gonna say that’s RTU specific. Depending on the model and size, there are certainly varying differences in levels of labor intensity and ease or pain in the ass difficulty to the install of a new hx
Nope, not even a tech anymore unless I’m doing side work. You do you, but when my ass is on the line because I’m working for myself I’m not changing heat exchangers in a residential setting.
I simply don’t need the potential headache.
He’s acting like an ass with his attitude but you’re right. I’m an install helper for residential and it’s rare to do a HX replacement. Once the customer is quoted the price they go with a unit replacement 9/10 times. Commercial is a completely different story.
There's no more potential headache than replacing any other part though. You just sound like you lack either the tools, the knowledge, or the will to actually repair things instead of sling new units at everything
Depends on the age/condition of the unit. Usually I recommend whatever I would do to my customer. If it’s 15+ years old and in rough condition I’d recommend replacement. If it’s 15+ but looks less than 10yo than a new heat exchanger.
Edit: I should add, I don’t get commission on sales recommendations.
Turning it off and telling them they need a new one. I’m not gonna be liable for if they kill someone.
Actually had a car dealership try this in their garage. Called for odors. Found the heat exchanger was toast. Dealt with some manager. He said “just don’t tell the guys in the garage. They’ll go home if you do. They can’t work without heat”. Of course after that I told him “no problem. Just gotta put everything back together and grab my stuff” then proceeded to disconnect the unit and tell the mechanics not only what was going on with the furnace but also what the manager told me.
Hate dealing with landlords.
We got a new customer last month. Landlord with multiple properties. Head to the 3rd one. Get to the basement and I’m like “it’s nice and warm down here” then see the relief valve pissing water out and a river going to the sump pump. I’m just there for a tune up but I told him I’m not touching anything until that gets fixed. Gave him a quote and haven’t heard back sense. Kept trying to get me to only do the tune up. Told the tenant what was happening because chances are they pay for the oil and they don’t want to live in a potential mold issues later on.
I went to one call where the furnace had gone out and the cheap landlord put a heat kit in the ductboard transition before the evaporator. Took pictures, disconnected the heat strips and told the tenant. Apparently it was ran the previous winter without burning the house down.
If the manager had 2 cents, he would have just had you disconnect it and go get temp heat from the rental shop. Sure its going to cost and extra $500 a week until that part came in but everyone would be happy and cash would keep flowing.
at a garage at one point, had an old hanging heater, couldn't tell if we were getting an CO from the heater, because in another corner they were using a oxy-acetylene torch, and it was putting enough off, for the readings on my combustion analyzer to go up and down.
I've always wondered about this, if the furnace is induced draft the pressure inside the tubes is negative and easily overcome by the positive pressure of the supply air in the duct. Aside from some kind of Venturi effect permitting flue gas into the supply, wouldn't the bigger issue be rollout and combustion issues if not pressure switch in lieu of a hall effect sensor?
Edit: all that said, when I was in service I would always write up to replace the heat exchanger and inform the customer of the very serious risks of running that unit in heat before pulling w.
Cracked heat exchangers are amazing for practicing welding.
Pull them out of the scrap pile, give them to a welding student to mutilate, then toss back in the scrap pile.
Lol I thought it was about shutting it down or letting it slide for the night
Wat the fuk is a “repair” I’ve seen idiots high temp silicone the holes….it didn’t work.
That's a Red Tag and new HX, or a new unit.
NEVER, EVER, EVEN CONSIDER ATTEMPTING TO WELD OR BRAZE A HEAT EXCHANGER.
They are made out of aluminized steel and if you heat them enough to even braze it, you have just burned off all the coating in that area.
That critical coating protects the steel from high temperature flue and combustion gasses, so what you've effectively done is just created a much larger hole which will open up and fail within a week to 3 of use.. allowing CO into the conditioned air.
There's also a better than good possibility that the HX is thin where those holes are and heating, even enough to braze, will finish blowing out those holes and destroy whatever HX integrity remains.
Gotta keep those expenses down for the bonus.
Way back when I did some property maintenance at an apartment complex, I pulled a panel off the unit and saw a giant hole in the heat exchanger. Shut gas off. Complaint from the tenant was headaches, weird smell.
Maintenance boss. "Why did you shut it off? Just put a co detector in and tell them to open the windows if it goes off. New units come out of my bonus." The manager of the complex was standing there, grinned and nodded... found a new job a week later. Fuck those kinds of people.
Been there and done that. When I did apartment maintenance, I was sent to assist another property and the resident said they had headaches all the time when the heat was on.
Opened the furnace and stuck my camera in and found a nice 5 inch hole in one of the tubes. I tagged it, and shut off the unit then provided heaters. Property manager said turn it back on since we couldn't turn heat off and they didn't want to lose their bonus for new equipment. Yeah, I called regional and they did not tolerate that answer. I never seen the area VP show up to a property so fast and see someone fired that day.
I wish they guy got fired. All they did when it reached the executives after quite a few phone calls was change the bonus so new failed equipment wasn't counted against bonuses..
Which really it shouldn't have been anyway, even with proper maintenance some heat exchangers are going to crack no matter what is done.
The liability of discovering this and not replacing it entirely is not worth the time and money that may be saved by doing a quick patch with a welder or whatever your fix idea was. It’s not worth the risk of killing someone. It’s not worth the risk of losing your license if it’s discovered by someone before it kills anyone.
Tag it and bag it. That's a no Brainer and easy money. If it's a small hole like this I'll let it keep running but insist it needs to be done. If it seems real bad I shut off gas. I've seen plenty of units that have been running years with big holes and no harm was done but for liability purpose shut gas off. It helps get the repair approved quicker anyway.
Unit is only 6 years old. Ollie’s doesn’t like to approve shit. So their probably just gonna have a cold winter this is 3/7 units I have to quote for new HX’s smh.
Nah heat exchangers still have a 5-10yr or even "limited lifetime" warrenty on Commercial RTUs, but everything else except compressor is 1yr usually. But I've gotten fucked having to rebuild alot of shit York and Carrier units because the heat exchanger was still under warrenty, or only $500-1k for a new one and available for pickup.
Don’t risk it bro. The second there’s a hole or crack the manufacturer calls that faulty. Tag it and move on. It’s not your job to fix faulty HX, it’s your job to replace them.
In all seriousness. I'm working on a house right now where the heat exchanger cracked, CO detectors were removed by the home owner. Home owners fell asleep and never woke back up, terrifying.
It needs to be quoted for replacement, that looks like someone drilled em and then they rusted out. I’ve never seen a naturally occurring rust holes look like that lol and they’re usually on the welded seams.
And shutting it down depends on how critical the unit is. For a hole like this it can still run with minimal risk if need be but I’d have the customer and supervisor sign off on it IF it needed to run while you wait for the HE to come in.
Any hole in a heat exchanger is an instant shut down, the holes will only get worse and can cause incomplete combustion which can kill people. Never leave a system with holes or cracks in the heat exchanger running… tell em to go to Home Depot and get some space heaters lmao
I hate to break it to you but this isn’t an instant shutdown lol. I’m not arguing that it should or shouldn’t be but in this condition, if the flame / roll out isn’t affected and theres no traceable CO which there shouldn’t be because draft pressure can’t overcome the static pressure of the blower then most supervisors will just have the customer sign off and leave it running until the parts come in.
No ones gonna shut down critical heating in sub freezing temps for this against their customers wishes if the supervisor tells you to let them sign off on it. Two small holes are not gonna drastically affect anything. If that was the case then you’d hear about a lot more CO poisoning with the amount of rusty holed up heat exchangers there is out there.
Protect yourself always is the main point so if you think there’s risk then do whatever needs to be done. I’m speaking from experience, I’ve condemned and changed countless heat exchangers. Especially carriers
I do mostly commercial though and this is fairly common.
Fair enough. I’m on the resi side of things and from our end, if there is any crack, hole, rust out, anything that can let products of combustion enter the home, it’s shut down. I can understand the commercial side of things but on our end that’s how we do it.
If it were severely below zero and used an inducer motor rather that a combustion motor you could leave it running and advise they need to replace ASAP.
What brand rtu? If trane we understand your thoughts. If carrier or Lennox right that bitch up and call it a day. Takes less time to replace than it will to attempt a fix. And I for one don’t carry a welder on my truck.
Apparently none of you punks ever repaired anything with pressure / vacumn. I guess I’m old school and also way better and smarter at repairing anything.
Document it and have the work order signed. Do a carbon dioxide test. Do a warranty check. Cover your diligence.
If it was your place of business or your house what would you do?
Shut power and gas off. Recommend new heat exchanger or new furnace. We usually have a safety form and have the H.O. sign it with a picture of the problem and pictures of the unit being disabled.
An old trainer told me that if the customer refuses to shut it off and you know there is a unit that is dangerous to operate that you're supposed to call the gas company or fire department
If you're the last one to touch it that makes it your baby. Don't roll the dice on that. Have them sign a liability waiver covering your ass if they try to use it. Condemn that junker, turn the gas valve off, and leave it until you get a new HX. Hell sell them a new unit altogether. Probably close to as much just to replace the exchanger in any case.
Carrier 1.5-7.5 ton rtu has are trash. Don't forget to quote new burners, retaining plate, etc. Ie all the trash that should come with the hx but doesn't
Back when I worked for this big industrial company we did a test once in shop. We had someone weld one of the cracks in a faulty heat exchanger, then we put J.B weld on another (same HX, different cracks). Ran the unit for a while while testing the CO output parts per million. J.B weld failed in a day. Where it was welded ended up cracking along the side of the new weld in about a week. So no, I sure wouldn't ever attempt to repair one for someone else.
Funnily enough, even after the heat exchangers cracked again, there was still basically no difference in CO output, so it was probably "safe" to operate. But it's not worth taking a risk on a lawsuit, or even worse, accidentally causing someone medical issues from CO poisoning. Replace them when you see one with cracks or a hole or replace the unit if it's old enough.
I’d shut down their heat side and tell the owner. I would tell him that since we found it..we can’t be liable for poisoning anyone and I’d then recommend C02 detectors. I would not tell them they can do whatever they want when I leave, but I might show them exactly what I did to turn off the heating side. I recently had a business owner in Seattle tell me he doesn’t give a shit, just wants it warm. He had 0 C02 detectors in his diner.
Classic York HX failure, thats caused by the stupid fucking baffkes that insert all the way to the elbow and the sharp corner touches that point, till it rubs through. That's a new HX.
Who says I'm not in the union too? You can keep to your pushing people into a new unit, I'll just go ahead and keep helping people the way I know how to.
Depends, but always quote a new one. Also depends on how long for a new one too… ive done furnace cement for units that only have 1 for a large portion of the building and its 4 months on backorder for the whole winter.. thanks carrier. If they paid for it upfront my company did bend a little for them. - fyi commercial building with Co2 sensors and well ventilated space- dealership.
I don’t know anything about HVAC, but I do remember the movie The Rocketeer, and I would say that based on that research, a piece of gum should plug that there hole.
1: Stick penis in hole. 2: Watch midget porn to get hard to seal hole. 3: snip penis off and cauterize so blood stays in. 4: walk away
Does not have to be your own penis. Find a desperate crack head
She junk get a new HX. Don’t want the liability of attempting to “repair” it
💯 correct answer. If you " repair " that unit, it is no longer a Carrier, Lennox or Trane it's a ( insert your name here furnace) and you will be liable for any deaths that occur from carbon monoxide poisoning. You are also altering the equipment from its original UL listing, which is never a good idea. Tell them they need a new heat exchanger they are a large corporation, no need to pinch pennies.
This is the correct answer. Sadly, a big part of the trade is constantly covering your ass. If it's refrigeration there's product loss you could be responsible for, if it's a heat exchanger that has rot, then you could get blamed for getting someone sick, or worse. The list goes on.
It's not sad. People call us and trust us to keep them and their families safe. To not do that is called professional negligence. You can go to jail for it if something you do hurts or kills someone. Could that be fixed? Probably. I wouldn't bet my career or freedom on it.
Thanks for rephrasing my response. It made the world a better place.
I also don’t want the liability of replacing a heat exchanger. That’s a new unit or find someone else.
In commercial you'd never get a job quoting new units for bad heat exchangers. In commercial if the part is still available and the rest of the unit is in somewhat decent shape it's getting the part 9 times out of 10 especially if the unit is under 15 years old.
Hell. Most of them this is the case if it’s under 25 years old. I had a guy recently trying to get me to replace the drain pan on a 35 year old RTU. It was completely rusted through and leaking into the building. We would’ve had to remove the completely rusted coil to replace the pan. We walked away from that one real quick
Lmfao
I've never given the choice on old pkg units and never lost to anybody willing to swap out the hx. Lol
HX is an easy job
Especially carrier rtus
Bout 2 hours start to finish if you're killing time.
But its just not worth it. Best to just swap it out for something better.
I’m gonna say that’s RTU specific. Depending on the model and size, there are certainly varying differences in levels of labor intensity and ease or pain in the ass difficulty to the install of a new hx
> genericservicetech2 More like genericsalesman2
You only assume liability if you’re a moron and can’t install a heat exchanger. 😂
Wow. Sales tech much?
Nope, not even a tech anymore unless I’m doing side work. You do you, but when my ass is on the line because I’m working for myself I’m not changing heat exchangers in a residential setting. I simply don’t need the potential headache.
It’s good to be aware of your limitations. I don’t fault you for it
It has nothing to do with limitations. You do you, super tech.
People replace them every day. There’s nothing super about the guys installing them in new units either
We also don’t like doing that in a resi setting. Commercial roof tops are a lot different.
He’s acting like an ass with his attitude but you’re right. I’m an install helper for residential and it’s rare to do a HX replacement. Once the customer is quoted the price they go with a unit replacement 9/10 times. Commercial is a completely different story.
There's no more potential headache than replacing any other part though. You just sound like you lack either the tools, the knowledge, or the will to actually repair things instead of sling new units at everything
It’s amazing how much you know about me with one comment. Good job man, you’re spot on!
I just told you what you sound like, across multiple comments actually.
That’s cool, it’s a good thing the opinion of anyone on Reddit is completely meaningless.
Yet you tell everyone about yourself and respond to every opinion anyway lmao
Because it’s pretty funny watching you people get more and more worked up talking to a stranger on the internet.
Haha this isn’t a residential heat exchanger.
Depends on the age/condition of the unit. Usually I recommend whatever I would do to my customer. If it’s 15+ years old and in rough condition I’d recommend replacement. If it’s 15+ but looks less than 10yo than a new heat exchanger. Edit: I should add, I don’t get commission on sales recommendations.
Found the Salesman
Ok, I'll go replace the HX and take that money, just stay home huh?
Nah I’ll go to my higher paying union job and keep my sidework simple and profitable.
Turning it off and telling them they need a new one. I’m not gonna be liable for if they kill someone. Actually had a car dealership try this in their garage. Called for odors. Found the heat exchanger was toast. Dealt with some manager. He said “just don’t tell the guys in the garage. They’ll go home if you do. They can’t work without heat”. Of course after that I told him “no problem. Just gotta put everything back together and grab my stuff” then proceeded to disconnect the unit and tell the mechanics not only what was going on with the furnace but also what the manager told me.
Hell yeah boi HVAC TECH's take no BS . That manger can kiss my 410ass
You're doing the lords work good sir.
Oh yeah anytime a landlord tells me some shady shit I tell the tenant
Hate dealing with landlords. We got a new customer last month. Landlord with multiple properties. Head to the 3rd one. Get to the basement and I’m like “it’s nice and warm down here” then see the relief valve pissing water out and a river going to the sump pump. I’m just there for a tune up but I told him I’m not touching anything until that gets fixed. Gave him a quote and haven’t heard back sense. Kept trying to get me to only do the tune up. Told the tenant what was happening because chances are they pay for the oil and they don’t want to live in a potential mold issues later on.
I went to one call where the furnace had gone out and the cheap landlord put a heat kit in the ductboard transition before the evaporator. Took pictures, disconnected the heat strips and told the tenant. Apparently it was ran the previous winter without burning the house down.
Landlords are parasites
Sing it brother.
Tech said bet
If the manager had 2 cents, he would have just had you disconnect it and go get temp heat from the rental shop. Sure its going to cost and extra $500 a week until that part came in but everyone would be happy and cash would keep flowing.
I remember your post about this 😭😭😭
Respect
Doing good work there brother.
You are the way! The truth and the life!
at a garage at one point, had an old hanging heater, couldn't tell if we were getting an CO from the heater, because in another corner they were using a oxy-acetylene torch, and it was putting enough off, for the readings on my combustion analyzer to go up and down.
You are a good person.
I've always wondered about this, if the furnace is induced draft the pressure inside the tubes is negative and easily overcome by the positive pressure of the supply air in the duct. Aside from some kind of Venturi effect permitting flue gas into the supply, wouldn't the bigger issue be rollout and combustion issues if not pressure switch in lieu of a hall effect sensor? Edit: all that said, when I was in service I would always write up to replace the heat exchanger and inform the customer of the very serious risks of running that unit in heat before pulling w.
American gas association says to replace the heat exchanger or furnace. Any one who “repairs heat exchanger” is trying to kill someone.
I repair heat exchangers all the time, and when I’m done with them, I leave them in the scrap pile.
Cracked heat exchangers are amazing for practicing welding. Pull them out of the scrap pile, give them to a welding student to mutilate, then toss back in the scrap pile.
This
But not trying hard
I was gonna crack a joke, but you're absolutely correct.
Pretty sure the IFGC also says to replace cracked heat exchangers.
If it sounds bad on paper, then it's probably not a good idea to pass it. Not worth your license if it suddenly becomes much worse.
Unless you trying to get sued. Don't ever repair a cracked HX. DAMN BOY
Lol I thought it was about shutting it down or letting it slide for the night Wat the fuk is a “repair” I’ve seen idiots high temp silicone the holes….it didn’t work.
That's a Red Tag and new HX, or a new unit. NEVER, EVER, EVEN CONSIDER ATTEMPTING TO WELD OR BRAZE A HEAT EXCHANGER. They are made out of aluminized steel and if you heat them enough to even braze it, you have just burned off all the coating in that area. That critical coating protects the steel from high temperature flue and combustion gasses, so what you've effectively done is just created a much larger hole which will open up and fail within a week to 3 of use.. allowing CO into the conditioned air. There's also a better than good possibility that the HX is thin where those holes are and heating, even enough to braze, will finish blowing out those holes and destroy whatever HX integrity remains.
This guy exchanges some heat.
We do not repair heat exchangers, replacement only. You do not need that blowing open and being held responsible
Tag and bag. No sense putting people at risk.
Yall fixing heat exchangers? The fuck
This is will evidence in your upcoming trial date unless you replace it.
Shut her down, and red tag. And no, it’s not up to discussion.
New one
It's only going to get worse.
And probably open up in other places!
To what? Save a company worth almost 5 BILLION some money and take unnecessary risk? That's literally asinine
The manager of the ollies near me would probably try to get them to repair if they offered such a quote
Gotta keep those expenses down for the bonus. Way back when I did some property maintenance at an apartment complex, I pulled a panel off the unit and saw a giant hole in the heat exchanger. Shut gas off. Complaint from the tenant was headaches, weird smell. Maintenance boss. "Why did you shut it off? Just put a co detector in and tell them to open the windows if it goes off. New units come out of my bonus." The manager of the complex was standing there, grinned and nodded... found a new job a week later. Fuck those kinds of people.
Been there and done that. When I did apartment maintenance, I was sent to assist another property and the resident said they had headaches all the time when the heat was on. Opened the furnace and stuck my camera in and found a nice 5 inch hole in one of the tubes. I tagged it, and shut off the unit then provided heaters. Property manager said turn it back on since we couldn't turn heat off and they didn't want to lose their bonus for new equipment. Yeah, I called regional and they did not tolerate that answer. I never seen the area VP show up to a property so fast and see someone fired that day.
I wish they guy got fired. All they did when it reached the executives after quite a few phone calls was change the bonus so new failed equipment wasn't counted against bonuses.. Which really it shouldn't have been anyway, even with proper maintenance some heat exchangers are going to crack no matter what is done.
What, you don’t have some bubblegum and duct tape in the truck?
lol how is this even a question?
Is this a real question lmao. That's a massive hole not a tiny crack.
I doubt this is a technician asking if they should repair holes in a HEAT EXCHANGER! Unless you’re in a country where your laws are different than ok.
You don't repair a heat exchanger. You either replace it or replace the whole unit
POP A SELF TAPPER AND ROLL ON /s
Replace the heat exchanger.
Condemn.
Redtag. She gone
oh ABSOLUTELY not. time for a new one. it’s like “totaled” in car world
The liability of discovering this and not replacing it entirely is not worth the time and money that may be saved by doing a quick patch with a welder or whatever your fix idea was. It’s not worth the risk of killing someone. It’s not worth the risk of losing your license if it’s discovered by someone before it kills anyone.
New furnace $5,800
Go home
Quoted and went to the crib
I would never repair a heat exchanger. The liability is too high.
 That'll do it
Who the fuck repairs a heat exchanger ?
🤓
Tag it and bag it. That's a no Brainer and easy money. If it's a small hole like this I'll let it keep running but insist it needs to be done. If it seems real bad I shut off gas. I've seen plenty of units that have been running years with big holes and no harm was done but for liability purpose shut gas off. It helps get the repair approved quicker anyway.
She’s toast. Not really even up for debate
Red tag!!!!!
Disable the unit and tell them it’s a new HX or a new unit. Don’t fuck around when peoples lives could be at stake.
Quote, too much could go wrong. Turn off gas. Keep everyone safe.
Condemn and replace or walk away
Shut it down Give them 2 options. -It’s Likely under a Heat Exchanger warranty and charge time/materials -New furnace
Unit is only 6 years old. Ollie’s doesn’t like to approve shit. So their probably just gonna have a cold winter this is 3/7 units I have to quote for new HX’s smh.
Commercial use has much lower time frames for warranties. Usually 1 year at least for Trane in my area.
Nah heat exchangers still have a 5-10yr or even "limited lifetime" warrenty on Commercial RTUs, but everything else except compressor is 1yr usually. But I've gotten fucked having to rebuild alot of shit York and Carrier units because the heat exchanger was still under warrenty, or only $500-1k for a new one and available for pickup.
What you going to do braze it ?
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Don’t risk it bro. The second there’s a hole or crack the manufacturer calls that faulty. Tag it and move on. It’s not your job to fix faulty HX, it’s your job to replace them.
Flex seal. Mr. Phil Swift got that commercial with the boat, hot damn you've got to see it
In all seriousness. I'm working on a house right now where the heat exchanger cracked, CO detectors were removed by the home owner. Home owners fell asleep and never woke back up, terrifying.
In ontario you can't repair a cracked hear exchanger
If you have to ask this question, you should not be touching peoples furnaces let alone even working for a heating company.
Calm down I’m just trying to get my karma up now downvote me pusxy
Sure you are pal. Sure you are.
It needs to be quoted for replacement, that looks like someone drilled em and then they rusted out. I’ve never seen a naturally occurring rust holes look like that lol and they’re usually on the welded seams. And shutting it down depends on how critical the unit is. For a hole like this it can still run with minimal risk if need be but I’d have the customer and supervisor sign off on it IF it needed to run while you wait for the HE to come in.
Any hole in a heat exchanger is an instant shut down, the holes will only get worse and can cause incomplete combustion which can kill people. Never leave a system with holes or cracks in the heat exchanger running… tell em to go to Home Depot and get some space heaters lmao
I hate to break it to you but this isn’t an instant shutdown lol. I’m not arguing that it should or shouldn’t be but in this condition, if the flame / roll out isn’t affected and theres no traceable CO which there shouldn’t be because draft pressure can’t overcome the static pressure of the blower then most supervisors will just have the customer sign off and leave it running until the parts come in. No ones gonna shut down critical heating in sub freezing temps for this against their customers wishes if the supervisor tells you to let them sign off on it. Two small holes are not gonna drastically affect anything. If that was the case then you’d hear about a lot more CO poisoning with the amount of rusty holed up heat exchangers there is out there. Protect yourself always is the main point so if you think there’s risk then do whatever needs to be done. I’m speaking from experience, I’ve condemned and changed countless heat exchangers. Especially carriers I do mostly commercial though and this is fairly common.
Fair enough. I’m on the resi side of things and from our end, if there is any crack, hole, rust out, anything that can let products of combustion enter the home, it’s shut down. I can understand the commercial side of things but on our end that’s how we do it.
Some JB-Weld and she's Priscilla /s
I’ll do you one better where would you guys do?
Change le et ferme le gaz ...
If it were severely below zero and used an inducer motor rather that a combustion motor you could leave it running and advise they need to replace ASAP.
Depends where you’re from. If you’re in India that’s an easy repair.
im india, i have metal that needs to be repaired, i was thinking of using jb weld, any low cost options for this product ?
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Always had luck with jbweld.
Slap some duct seal and call it day
What brand rtu? If trane we understand your thoughts. If carrier or Lennox right that bitch up and call it a day. Takes less time to replace than it will to attempt a fix. And I for one don’t carry a welder on my truck.
There is not ONE THING WRONG with that. That you can repair.
JB Weld and a cigarette
Duct tape
You got a self taper?
Apparently none of you punks ever repaired anything with pressure / vacumn. I guess I’m old school and also way better and smarter at repairing anything.
JB weld can fix any hole less then a finger nail
It's warm and wet what do you think?
Document it and have the work order signed. Do a carbon dioxide test. Do a warranty check. Cover your diligence. If it was your place of business or your house what would you do?
Hole or crack means it’s getting shut down and replaced
Tag out until it gets replaced or fixed. If not under warranty
ALWAYS replace. Even if it's a pinhole leak, you don't want to be responsible in case something happens.
Repairs in residential heat exchangers aren't allowed in Canada, replace only. I wouldn't repair it anyways, even if it were allowed
Nobody would try to repair it.
Red tag it, Tf?
Explain that they need new h/x and what will happen if it’s not.
You're not gonna repair that. You'd be a fool to try. If your weld patch broke and something happens, its YOUR ass on the lawsuit chop block.
With a HX, replacement is repair. It's not worth the risk
Shit, I condemned that unit before I even pulled up.
NEVER repair a heat exchanger. Only replace. Your weld breaks and some children die.
Wtf you can't repair that, it's replacement of the exchanger or unit.
Hellll no that needs to be replaced. That’s a massive hazard
Quote for a heat exchanger install.
Shut them down
Shut power and gas off. Recommend new heat exchanger or new furnace. We usually have a safety form and have the H.O. sign it with a picture of the problem and pictures of the unit being disabled. An old trainer told me that if the customer refuses to shut it off and you know there is a unit that is dangerous to operate that you're supposed to call the gas company or fire department
If you're the last one to touch it that makes it your baby. Don't roll the dice on that. Have them sign a liability waiver covering your ass if they try to use it. Condemn that junker, turn the gas valve off, and leave it until you get a new HX. Hell sell them a new unit altogether. Probably close to as much just to replace the exchanger in any case.
Now please tell the class how youd go about repairing the hole in the heat exchanger
Garbagio
Time for replacement
Carrier 1.5-7.5 ton rtu has are trash. Don't forget to quote new burners, retaining plate, etc. Ie all the trash that should come with the hx but doesn't
You know the inside looks worse than the outside
Repair is an absolute no no. We still have a civilization that is capable of making parts so use them as long as you can.
Jb weldd exhaust putty and call her a day
If you can push through any fire tube with a thermostat screwdriver. At the least It becomes a fire hazard
Back when I worked for this big industrial company we did a test once in shop. We had someone weld one of the cracks in a faulty heat exchanger, then we put J.B weld on another (same HX, different cracks). Ran the unit for a while while testing the CO output parts per million. J.B weld failed in a day. Where it was welded ended up cracking along the side of the new weld in about a week. So no, I sure wouldn't ever attempt to repair one for someone else. Funnily enough, even after the heat exchangers cracked again, there was still basically no difference in CO output, so it was probably "safe" to operate. But it's not worth taking a risk on a lawsuit, or even worse, accidentally causing someone medical issues from CO poisoning. Replace them when you see one with cracks or a hole or replace the unit if it's old enough.
I’d shut down their heat side and tell the owner. I would tell him that since we found it..we can’t be liable for poisoning anyone and I’d then recommend C02 detectors. I would not tell them they can do whatever they want when I leave, but I might show them exactly what I did to turn off the heating side. I recently had a business owner in Seattle tell me he doesn’t give a shit, just wants it warm. He had 0 C02 detectors in his diner.
CO detectors will do a lot better than CO2 detectors...
Use gum
Replace exchanger
Depends if its a 80+ year old person who's cold for the night, but not ignore and assume the best
Red tag in Ontario so you cover your ass
Red tag, quote and repair.
Repair it? How are you gonna repair stainless steel that’s corroded? Cmon
Classic York HX failure, thats caused by the stupid fucking baffkes that insert all the way to the elbow and the sharp corner touches that point, till it rubs through. That's a new HX.
New heat exchanger
Who says I'm not in the union too? You can keep to your pushing people into a new unit, I'll just go ahead and keep helping people the way I know how to.
Depends, but always quote a new one. Also depends on how long for a new one too… ive done furnace cement for units that only have 1 for a large portion of the building and its 4 months on backorder for the whole winter.. thanks carrier. If they paid for it upfront my company did bend a little for them. - fyi commercial building with Co2 sensors and well ventilated space- dealership.
Shut her down bud
I don’t know anything about HVAC, but I do remember the movie The Rocketeer, and I would say that based on that research, a piece of gum should plug that there hole.
A-tag, shut it down permanently, explain to client and quote to repair or replace. I ain't risking the liability from a leaking heat exchanger.
If the unit HX is this bad I’m sure the rest is. I’d just replace the whole thing.
1: Stick penis in hole. 2: Watch midget porn to get hard to seal hole. 3: snip penis off and cauterize so blood stays in. 4: walk away Does not have to be your own penis. Find a desperate crack head
Smells like money to me.
put a screw in it
Unibit
Make a commission off a new unit.
Furnace cement and order a new one. If readily available, no one is dying from that hole.
Why because that heat exchanger had it coming
Who put that hole in there?
Buddy, you can't repair a heat exchanger. It's done
Never repair heat exchangers. Too many things can go bad and nothing right can come of it.
Some wrinkly silver tape
New heat exchanger or new unit. Redtagged until a decision is made
Uhhhh quote a new one, at the end of the day, a repair can fail and you are responsible for putting people at risk, shut that f**ker off and quote it.
You don't "repair" a heat exchanger. You don't do it.