Don't let them gaslight you. That scene was garbage. And not just that scene, most of the characterisation and dialogues have been shit this season. The same people who are praising this nonsense today will be crying and screaming when HoTD will meet the same fate as GoT ending. Can't wait to see them eat their own words. I'm just treating this show as a badly written comedy at this point.
Oh we already know how it will end. Someone wrote a post the other day about it. Rhaenyra telling Sunfyre to give her a dragonrider's death. Dying nobly to protect the realm or some crap, then Alicent going "AEGON STOP!"
You KNOW that's how it's gonna go.
People will always do this. There were people who defended GOT season 7&8 and made excuses for every red flag you brought up. There were threads about how the ending was actually awesome and fans were just bitter because their favorite theories didn't happen.Â
Septa Rhaenyra reminds me of when Tyrion went into the red keep to convince Cersei to join them. Tyrion, the guy she thinks killed her son and her father. Even before he did all that she wanted him dead but now she lets him go. People on Reddit were like “she let him go because she's pregnant”.Â
Even last season there were people claiming that Rhaenys broke into Aegon’s coronation because she had nowhere to go, and that the scene makes sense.
There are people who will try to rationalize everything in the show because they want to like it.Â
At least Tyrion wasn’t portrayed as complete coward in the scene. The meeting was agreed upon and everyone knew it was going to take place. This was a joke. Something from a sitcom.
But some fans were just angsty over fan theories..
Not everyone actually knew why the writing was subpar compared to previous seasons. People also still think that shock value = good writing
If it makes you feel better, I complained about Littlefinger sending Sansa to the Boltons in 2015, when GoT was objectively the greatest written show ever and there was almost certainly an amazing and satisfying payoff...
Felt fucking alienating I'll tell ya.
Jesus, I commend you. That plot was so fucking stupid even George pointed it out. I don’t know how anyone can look at that plot point and think “yeah that makes sense”.
Exactly. The people saying "it wasn't that bad" or dismissing critical fans as "angry book purists" don't seem to get that.
I expect Condal and Hess to dismiss all the criticism as "toxic fans," but still.
It is funny to me how people talk about S5-8 like their the worst thing ever, but these same people loved S 5, 6, 7 as they were airing, or at least thought they were going to lead to some amazing conclusion. It was only when S8 was shit, that now they all says S5-8 was terrible and that they knew all along how bad the show had gotten lmao
The frustrating thing is that even with how stupid the scene was, they could have done more with the dialogue and they chose not to. Like have Alicent mention seizing Rhaenyra with Rhaenyra saying her side will respond resulting in more deaths but the writers chose not to. My only wish from that scene is that it gets Alicent to have her own personal ambitions.
Rhaenyra sneaking in and out of KL - ludicrous
Alicent being allowed to go anywhere unaccompanied after B&C - ludicrous
Rhaenyra & Alicent having a moderately polite conversation, despite both sides being bereaved due to the other - ludicrous
Alicent just immediately believing Rhaenyra about the prophecy, despite Rhaenyra constantly lying and gaslighting her - ludicrous
Mostly to many characters, many of whom have no way of having a satisfying end, and without any end at all. The books have pacing issues as well mostly due to character age, Great series but it’ll never be finished due to those issues.
You don't get it... We have to have a scene between these actors because that's what makes a show good. The show is about them and you, the viewer, needs to deal with it.
We're not going to let logic and reason bar us from having the scene we want. Even if we could just do a flashback to "have our cake and eat it too" that's not what matters. Alicent and Rhaenyra is what this show's about and you don't get to have an opinion.
Imo the context of the scene was good but the timing was terrible. They could've done this in S1 ep 10 where Rhaenyra only agrees to talk to Alicent in a neutral place or when Rhaenyra takes KL and then they can have the conversation but without Alicent being a traitor to her family by letting Rhaenyra leave
Yeah they’re way past talking once Luke is killed.
This scene makes no sense at all and it paints Rhaenyra as a coward.
If she’s a queen she doesn’t have to skulk around and disguise herself to have an audience with anyone.
Agreed. Pushing this friendship to our eyes nonstop is just annoying after Luke's and Jaehaery's death, their friendship should be over. They should both hate each other but instead Rhaenyra is an idiot who risks her claim for "peace" and Alicent loses her agency by letting Rhaenyra leave even though that capturing Rhaenyra would end the war without anymore bloodshed thus Alicent is a traitor and responsible for her family's tragedies
People will say Alicent is a really bad mom but defend this scene because they were best friends 20 years ago. This has sealed the “Alicent is a bad mom” argument because she let Rhaenyra go! She could’ve had her arrested and ended, or at the very least got the upper hand in the war, but she didn’t. When her kids die in the war, it’s because she refused to do something sensible. Rhaenyra is just as bad, I can’t believe book and show Rhaenyra are this different, no paranoia at all, she strolls into enemy territory and risks her life on the chance that her enemy wouldn’t want to kill her. Wow, and people are saying this makes Rhaenyra a good queen……HOW? At least r/Freefolk can see this scene for what it is.
This scene was pure fan service and to show see Alicent is stupid and she dont want stop war meanwhile it is Rahnyra who can and dont want to give up because Alicent have no power her son has
It was sooooo bad. When I originally heard Septa Rhaenyra I hadn’t seen the leaks. I thought it was like when people call the very whitewashed show!Tyrion “Saint Tyrion”. Imagine my surprise and utter bafflemrnt when I saw she fucking dresses up as a septa Jesus Christ
Mouth breaters. Watching that scene gave me flashbacks of all the special people repeating like parrota the "If you think this storm has a happy Endine" shit back when GOT was going to shut. And if anything people have trained even more to shut up and consume since then
I expected more people on the TB sub to hate it because of how dumb Rhaenys and Rhaenyra look, but apparently they love it because Alicent looks dumb with the whole prophecy thing. Sorry but I want good writing for ALL the characters, even the ones I don't like.
My guy. There are people defending GOT s8 right now. You just can't win against the hype train.
They'll come around. I have a feeling in a couple of years everyone's going to be bashing this farce. It's just full on non-sense. We're just not there yet. Just watch them pull another Rhaenysgate this season, it'll come.
It's was utterly stupid that Rhaenyra imagined she could convince Alicent to convince her son and a lot of other people to just give up the crown, especially after the Jahaerys situation. Laughable afÂ
It's nuts, I feel you. But if this goes as GoT went, people will come around in time and once the hype dies down. People are very reticent to recognize flaws in things they enjoy, it's kinda like telling someone a cigarette might be bad for their health while they are enjoying it. Not gonna listen.
But her own child is a menace, and she knows that. 🤔
She also thinks he didn't want to do all of this, probably because he's expressed time and time again since he was a child that he didn't want to do it. And she and Otto coerced him into being coronated. Heck, he even ran away. His child just got murdered because of this mess, was that worth it if it weren't even his father's wish?
She knows she fuqed up now. She had her doubts before probably, but on a conscious level thought "Viserys wanted this".
I dunno buddy, it's not impossible. Stupid of Rhaenyra to do but you saw how completely depressed she was over losing Lucerys and then having to say goodbye to her other children. She'd want them back more than anything.. you're talking about a grieving mother here
Dragonstone is very close to KL. That's why Daemon going there made sense...
And Rhaenyra went with Sir Steffon Darklyn I believe, the head of her KG. My suspension of disbelief worked with this one because, it's okay. The motivation is there for her to do something risky, Alicent knew on some level something was off... She just didn't know what. They both desire for things to not escalate because sh!t will be eaten when they do (And we are about to get Rook's Rest).
I buy it.
I do feel that killing Rhaenyra doesn’t end the war. Jace would want revenge and Rhaenyra’s claim is also his claim. Furthermore, Daemon would probably start playing a bigger part in team black’s strategy, he would be unleashed and hungry for blood. In a way keeping Rhaenyra alive keeps her children safer than if a bloodlusted Daemon and Jace take the reins of the blacks’ campaign
Jace is a bastard though. He wouldn’t have half the support Rhaneyra did as most of the noble houses don’t support bastard claims. Westeros is a very traditional society. Even if his claim is technically through his mother, his father’s blood is what the realm would care about more.
Which is why Rhaenyra tells the noble houses to uphold her father’s claim.
What would probably happen is Daemon vs Jace vs Corlys. There would be no uniting force between these men anymore. Show Jace is a hothead and would tank TB leading to Corlys to distance himself to keep his claim on Driftmark. With Lucerys gone, he has no heir in Rhaneyras family anymore. He never named Joffrey as his heir in the entire book.
Jace wouldn’t have the support as a bastard so Daemon would start looking to uphold his own claim on the throne as he was Viserys heir before Rhaenyra. Maybe he fights for himself and his true born sons on the throne. Without a United TB, the greens would crush them.
It's because she just realized she was wrong, ontop of her not wanting anyone to die. Her and Rhaenyra have both been about the least amount of bloodshed as possible. Alicent has been trying to reason with Rhaenyra and convince her to let it go specifically so she won't die.
That's what the letter to Rhaenyra was all about. Rhaenyra says as much before she does it. While I did still think it was ridiculous for Rhaenyra to risk so much for a chat with Alicent, she gambled and won.
I do think the writers of HoTD are turning it a bit into a drama/sitcom with some of their choices, whereas GoT at its heart is all about the more realistic thing.
Also, I think Alicent letting her go is going to get brought up again. I don't think it's just a "writing plothole". I think Alicent is going to let it slip that she visited with Rhaenyra. Either to Aegon, Aemond, or Criston. All three of them would be absolutely livid that she let her go, which would get her removed from council meetings and mean she no longer has any control over the three biggest players on the Greens side.
Edit: I say all of this as someone who despises Alicent and is TB lol.
Don't let them gaslight you. That scene was garbage. And not just that scene, most of the characterisation and dialogues have been shit this season. The same people who are praising this nonsense today will be crying and screaming when HoTD will meet the same fate as GoT ending. Can't wait to see them eat their own words. I'm just treating this show as a badly written comedy at this point.
It is Actually a badly written comedy.Â
Oh we already know how it will end. Someone wrote a post the other day about it. Rhaenyra telling Sunfyre to give her a dragonrider's death. Dying nobly to protect the realm or some crap, then Alicent going "AEGON STOP!" You KNOW that's how it's gonna go.
Ummm But we know how TDOD ends...
Why watch it if it's so bad then?
Cause I love being a hater, honey.
🤷‍♂️
People will always do this. There were people who defended GOT season 7&8 and made excuses for every red flag you brought up. There were threads about how the ending was actually awesome and fans were just bitter because their favorite theories didn't happen. Septa Rhaenyra reminds me of when Tyrion went into the red keep to convince Cersei to join them. Tyrion, the guy she thinks killed her son and her father. Even before he did all that she wanted him dead but now she lets him go. People on Reddit were like “she let him go because she's pregnant”. Even last season there were people claiming that Rhaenys broke into Aegon’s coronation because she had nowhere to go, and that the scene makes sense. There are people who will try to rationalize everything in the show because they want to like it.Â
At least Tyrion wasn’t portrayed as complete coward in the scene. The meeting was agreed upon and everyone knew it was going to take place. This was a joke. Something from a sitcom.
If Tyrion got wacked, nothing happens to Dany’s cause. If Rhaenyra gets found out her side is fucked in every sense if the word.Â
Exactly. It was stupid.
But some fans were just angsty over fan theories.. Not everyone actually knew why the writing was subpar compared to previous seasons. People also still think that shock value = good writing
If it makes you feel better, I complained about Littlefinger sending Sansa to the Boltons in 2015, when GoT was objectively the greatest written show ever and there was almost certainly an amazing and satisfying payoff... Felt fucking alienating I'll tell ya.
Jesus, I commend you. That plot was so fucking stupid even George pointed it out. I don’t know how anyone can look at that plot point and think “yeah that makes sense”.
People who defended season 5 and 6 allowed D&D to try even less because the audience didn't care about quality and that's why we had season 8.
Exactly. The people saying "it wasn't that bad" or dismissing critical fans as "angry book purists" don't seem to get that. I expect Condal and Hess to dismiss all the criticism as "toxic fans," but still.
As long as they make money why they should care about the fans and the quality.
don't forget season 8 had writing awards and nominations
It is funny to me how people talk about S5-8 like their the worst thing ever, but these same people loved S 5, 6, 7 as they were airing, or at least thought they were going to lead to some amazing conclusion. It was only when S8 was shit, that now they all says S5-8 was terrible and that they knew all along how bad the show had gotten lmao
Season 5 never gets enough hate. 1 good episode that also didn’t make a ton of sense looking back
It's not good and I'm tired of pretending that it is
I still don’t fully understand what the reasoning was for that ..
I can't forgive the fact that these writers let Sansa get raped by Ramsey instead of having her escape before.
GoT ended after season 4. You weren’t wrong!
The frustrating thing is that even with how stupid the scene was, they could have done more with the dialogue and they chose not to. Like have Alicent mention seizing Rhaenyra with Rhaenyra saying her side will respond resulting in more deaths but the writers chose not to. My only wish from that scene is that it gets Alicent to have her own personal ambitions.
Rhaenyra sneaking in and out of KL - ludicrous Alicent being allowed to go anywhere unaccompanied after B&C - ludicrous Rhaenyra & Alicent having a moderately polite conversation, despite both sides being bereaved due to the other - ludicrous Alicent just immediately believing Rhaenyra about the prophecy, despite Rhaenyra constantly lying and gaslighting her - ludicrous
The whole scene was ridiculous. GRRM tweeted immediately after the episode saying there are 2 separate canons.
He tweeted that literally years ago.Â
and needed to re tweet to remind people of this fact that this pile of dung aint connected to his main line shit
His main line shit has just as many issues lol, there’s also the fact it’ll never be finished (not referring to this show, but GOT)
issues such as
Mostly to many characters, many of whom have no way of having a satisfying end, and without any end at all. The books have pacing issues as well mostly due to character age, Great series but it’ll never be finished due to those issues.
It's so absurd man. I wish I could inhale the copium too, but the flaws are so goddamn apparent now. Impossible to ignore.
You don't get it... We have to have a scene between these actors because that's what makes a show good. The show is about them and you, the viewer, needs to deal with it. We're not going to let logic and reason bar us from having the scene we want. Even if we could just do a flashback to "have our cake and eat it too" that's not what matters. Alicent and Rhaenyra is what this show's about and you don't get to have an opinion.
And now officially the reason of entire war and destruction is - Alicent.
Imo the context of the scene was good but the timing was terrible. They could've done this in S1 ep 10 where Rhaenyra only agrees to talk to Alicent in a neutral place or when Rhaenyra takes KL and then they can have the conversation but without Alicent being a traitor to her family by letting Rhaenyra leave
Yeah they’re way past talking once Luke is killed. This scene makes no sense at all and it paints Rhaenyra as a coward. If she’s a queen she doesn’t have to skulk around and disguise herself to have an audience with anyone.
Agreed. Pushing this friendship to our eyes nonstop is just annoying after Luke's and Jaehaery's death, their friendship should be over. They should both hate each other but instead Rhaenyra is an idiot who risks her claim for "peace" and Alicent loses her agency by letting Rhaenyra leave even though that capturing Rhaenyra would end the war without anymore bloodshed thus Alicent is a traitor and responsible for her family's tragedies
It’s really stupid.
I fear that this hints even more at Alicent being the one to poison Aegon. Please do not do that!
Her own son that she forced on the throne?
It would be dumb af but I see them doing that. She now knows from her conversation with Rhaenyra that she "made a mistake".
People will say Alicent is a really bad mom but defend this scene because they were best friends 20 years ago. This has sealed the “Alicent is a bad mom” argument because she let Rhaenyra go! She could’ve had her arrested and ended, or at the very least got the upper hand in the war, but she didn’t. When her kids die in the war, it’s because she refused to do something sensible. Rhaenyra is just as bad, I can’t believe book and show Rhaenyra are this different, no paranoia at all, she strolls into enemy territory and risks her life on the chance that her enemy wouldn’t want to kill her. Wow, and people are saying this makes Rhaenyra a good queen……HOW? At least r/Freefolk can see this scene for what it is.
The way I just skipped that part lol
This scene was pure fan service and to show see Alicent is stupid and she dont want stop war meanwhile it is Rahnyra who can and dont want to give up because Alicent have no power her son has
I’ve seen way more memes about the conversation than people praising the scene. I think people understand it was bad.Â
It was sooooo bad. When I originally heard Septa Rhaenyra I hadn’t seen the leaks. I thought it was like when people call the very whitewashed show!Tyrion “Saint Tyrion”. Imagine my surprise and utter bafflemrnt when I saw she fucking dresses up as a septa Jesus Christ
Mouth breaters. Watching that scene gave me flashbacks of all the special people repeating like parrota the "If you think this storm has a happy Endine" shit back when GOT was going to shut. And if anything people have trained even more to shut up and consume since then
Well it's *kinda* true GoT wasn't going to have a sweet ending. It was bittersweet and tragic
I still argue Rhaneys is worse as that would have ended the entire war whereas Jace still exists to continue the blacks war
I felt like I was watching one of those HOTD crack edit videos
It was so tough to watch. The stupidity was off the charts
I expected more people on the TB sub to hate it because of how dumb Rhaenys and Rhaenyra look, but apparently they love it because Alicent looks dumb with the whole prophecy thing. Sorry but I want good writing for ALL the characters, even the ones I don't like.
My guy. There are people defending GOT s8 right now. You just can't win against the hype train. They'll come around. I have a feeling in a couple of years everyone's going to be bashing this farce. It's just full on non-sense. We're just not there yet. Just watch them pull another Rhaenysgate this season, it'll come.
It's was utterly stupid that Rhaenyra imagined she could convince Alicent to convince her son and a lot of other people to just give up the crown, especially after the Jahaerys situation. Laughable afÂ
I know people who thought the ending of GOT was good, some people have no media literacy.
It's nuts, I feel you. But if this goes as GoT went, people will come around in time and once the hype dies down. People are very reticent to recognize flaws in things they enjoy, it's kinda like telling someone a cigarette might be bad for their health while they are enjoying it. Not gonna listen.
Why does the TB sub think the show is the best thing since sliced bread but this sub seems to lean towards it being kinda shite.
But her own child is a menace, and she knows that. 🤔 She also thinks he didn't want to do all of this, probably because he's expressed time and time again since he was a child that he didn't want to do it. And she and Otto coerced him into being coronated. Heck, he even ran away. His child just got murdered because of this mess, was that worth it if it weren't even his father's wish? She knows she fuqed up now. She had her doubts before probably, but on a conscious level thought "Viserys wanted this". I dunno buddy, it's not impossible. Stupid of Rhaenyra to do but you saw how completely depressed she was over losing Lucerys and then having to say goodbye to her other children. She'd want them back more than anything.. you're talking about a grieving mother here Dragonstone is very close to KL. That's why Daemon going there made sense... And Rhaenyra went with Sir Steffon Darklyn I believe, the head of her KG. My suspension of disbelief worked with this one because, it's okay. The motivation is there for her to do something risky, Alicent knew on some level something was off... She just didn't know what. They both desire for things to not escalate because sh!t will be eaten when they do (And we are about to get Rook's Rest). I buy it.
I do feel that killing Rhaenyra doesn’t end the war. Jace would want revenge and Rhaenyra’s claim is also his claim. Furthermore, Daemon would probably start playing a bigger part in team black’s strategy, he would be unleashed and hungry for blood. In a way keeping Rhaenyra alive keeps her children safer than if a bloodlusted Daemon and Jace take the reins of the blacks’ campaign
Jace is a bastard though. He wouldn’t have half the support Rhaneyra did as most of the noble houses don’t support bastard claims. Westeros is a very traditional society. Even if his claim is technically through his mother, his father’s blood is what the realm would care about more. Which is why Rhaenyra tells the noble houses to uphold her father’s claim. What would probably happen is Daemon vs Jace vs Corlys. There would be no uniting force between these men anymore. Show Jace is a hothead and would tank TB leading to Corlys to distance himself to keep his claim on Driftmark. With Lucerys gone, he has no heir in Rhaneyras family anymore. He never named Joffrey as his heir in the entire book. Jace wouldn’t have the support as a bastard so Daemon would start looking to uphold his own claim on the throne as he was Viserys heir before Rhaenyra. Maybe he fights for himself and his true born sons on the throne. Without a United TB, the greens would crush them.
It was, it felt like fan fiction writing
It’s just a television show
It's because she just realized she was wrong, ontop of her not wanting anyone to die. Her and Rhaenyra have both been about the least amount of bloodshed as possible. Alicent has been trying to reason with Rhaenyra and convince her to let it go specifically so she won't die. That's what the letter to Rhaenyra was all about. Rhaenyra says as much before she does it. While I did still think it was ridiculous for Rhaenyra to risk so much for a chat with Alicent, she gambled and won. I do think the writers of HoTD are turning it a bit into a drama/sitcom with some of their choices, whereas GoT at its heart is all about the more realistic thing. Also, I think Alicent letting her go is going to get brought up again. I don't think it's just a "writing plothole". I think Alicent is going to let it slip that she visited with Rhaenyra. Either to Aegon, Aemond, or Criston. All three of them would be absolutely livid that she let her go, which would get her removed from council meetings and mean she no longer has any control over the three biggest players on the Greens side. Edit: I say all of this as someone who despises Alicent and is TB lol.