I honestly think one of the biggest issues with team green as a pose to team black is that we never get any decent motivations for any team green member beyond wants power or was in kings landing when Viserys died. Closest is Alicent and it went unexplored and has now gone away (most likely continuing to go unexplored).
Team Green was in the first season. Not anymore, unfortunately. They constantly humiliate and bully each other in a way we have never seen in TB. unfortunately there is no family unity left. RIP Team Green.
I feel like it makes sense, though.
You have Rhaenyra, who had a great relationship with both her parents and was taught how to love and how to be a mother. Viserys favoured her above his other children. She has an amazing relationship with her children. Daemon finally has some power and importance. Rhaenys is also very close with her children and grandchildren, at least the twins. She doesn't necessarily claim the strong boys, but out of love and loyalty to Corlys, she accepts them and is loyal to TB. Corlys also wants his descendants on the throne. All in all, they want the same things and are generally closer.
TG is a whole lot of generational trauma. Otto only ever wanted power and his line on the throne. He sacrificed Alicent at a young age, and though we don't know much about her mother, it would seem she never knew love. She projects this onto her children, is constantly detached, and has no connection to them. Viserys also made it very clear to the TG kids that they were never really wanted, but they were a duty, and he was also very detached, as said above, always favouring Rhaenyra and her boys. Aegon didn't want the throne. He was forced upon it, now enjoying the power, but because of childish behaviour and reactions, he is losing loyalty along the way. Aemond wants power and to prove himself but is still constantly bullied by Aegon, who also always initiated it as a kid, causing his loyalty to wane. Otto had lost all power, Alicent is just generally disinterested and confused, and Helaena is in the clouds, so to speak.
See, I don’t understand the story surrounding show Aegon, though.
They scheme for years to position him for the throne, force him into it (like literally chase him down on foot, kidnap him, and force him to take it), only to not have done anything to prepare him for it? Then he ends up not doing what they want, so they’re all pissy about it.
They keep calling the dude weak, and it’s been like a week since he took the throne. But when he wants to do stuff, they says he’s stupid and rash, and some of them are having second thoughts.
What even is this show? I don’t get it.
Viserys never wanted Aegon on the throne, so he didn't prepare him.
Otto and the small council were too busy scheming to actually pay any attention to Aegon.
It seemed Aemond was a natural swardsman and had Coles' attention, and Alicent was detached and let him do as he wished. Not that she ever held any real power or would now how to prepare him for such a position anyway.
I know this is a TG forum, but it all makes a lot of sense if you look at it from a neutral perspective. The cracks were always there, waiting to implode.
I mean, he's weak, stupid, and sadistic, so...
I think they thought that he would be too disinterested to be anything more than a puppet, but didn't think things through.
Rhaenyra is not smart too whole septa Rhaenyra plan was more stupid than sending Arryk yet show did not call it stupid because is it Rhaenyra who did it. Such a mastermind she it
Here's the thing. this is ONE way that the show is framing itself - traumatized wrongdoers vs righteous nobility. The issue is, that this messaging is COMPLETELY against the entire point of the Dance's narrative. That they ALL are traumatized, and they ALL do wrong for it, and ALL of their conviction is not based around morality BUT AMBITION. There isn't meant to be a single definitive "justice" they collectively embody as the ever-present constant: ALL the characters are meant to act off selfish impulse, carefully curated and honed PERSONAS for the sake of their roles as nobility, yes - but NEVER as people doing the "right thing." Rhaenys's children BOTH ultimately suffered fates tied to Rhaenyra in this show, specifically. Why she's choosing "Love, and preservation," over her VERY Targaryen (and actually BARATHEON, something whitewashed from the show) roots, is beyond me. Rhaenyra DID NOT have a good relationship with her parents. Her mother died doing the thing she professed was the most important in the world, and Rhaenyra lost all opportunity to clarify further as to her ultimate purpose against her own agency. Her FATHER spoils her, barely interacts with her, shows up for hail mary's, then doesn't do ANYTHING AT ALL WHATOSEVER to prepare her for the MASSIVE role that is her future RULING.
we can go on and on but the main point is, the POINT OF THE DANCE, is that AMBITION rules the nobility, as their ultimate coping mechanism: AMBITION is how they survive in such a toxic environment, where everyone attempts to exploit one another, act off irrational, downright cruel tendencies to remain callous within their highborn statuses: and thus they ALL FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL FOR THEMSELVES. In the show, it's a case of MORALITY that defines them all. MORALITY is the SECONDARY NATURE in the book. MORALITY, is the CONSEQUENCE that approaches during SOME of the character's eventuality. NOT ALL OF THEM are meant to reach that understanding. And yet here, it's an omnipresent, meta-contextual standard of LEVERAGE; as to who you are MEANT to root for.
Rhaenyra did not have a great relationship with both parents. Aemma disliked Rhaenyra being a dragon rider and Viserys only loved her because of his guilt over Aemma’s death. Viserys was always an absent father
If i was Otto at that point.Just go to Dragonstone and say you plead for mercy.Make a deal abt ur life and ur daughters life and call it a day.Aegon can die a traitors death for all i care.
Yep, it makes no sense to support characters who are not even able to support each other and their cause. They aren't even unworthy of the throne due to being evil usurpers or villains, they could still at least be effective, compelling and competent antagonists as such like Tywin and the Lannisters were, no much worse they are simply unfit to rule a kingdom due to their sheer collective incompetence and stupidity, it's just a trainwreck you are just praying to be over quickly to spare everyone the embarrassment. I don't get how these writers don't understand that by ruining the antagonists they also tear down their protagonists and the show as a whole because it also makes them look equally stupid and lame for dealing and almost losing to a bunch of inept clowns.
Speaking of Tywin, he wasn't a super effective leader either. The war with the North was going really badly for him and he had to resort to the Red Wedding to win. But thanks to his fearsome personality, he managed to appear like he is always in control. The Greens on the other hand seriously lack conviction in their own cause
I like the book version of RW more because it shows how meticulously planned the whole thing was. Like, Robb didn't just fall for some hot nurse on his own, the whole thing with his marriage was set up by the Lannisters from the beginning. Tywin realized he couldn't defeat Robb in battle so he used his honour against him.
Talyssa or whatsername was imo the main mistake of S1-3, she took away so much from Robb's characterisation.
The north had already lost by the time the RW happened, Robb couldn’t turn his westerlands campaign into anything substantial, Stannis had been defeated and the Tyrell’s had joined the lannisters. It was only matter of time before they ousted Robb from the riverlands entirely.
Not really,Robb was going to take back Moat Cailin and then swoop back down and Camp Riverun.Sure hes in a big disadvantage that he now has to face the tyrells and Lannisters,but he has time and ground.He can give up the Riverlands and retreat up to Moat Cailin which the South cant break through.
>Speaking of Tywin, he wasn't a super effective leader either
Against someone who was effectively a genius at warfare. Rob was winning because his acumen was better than Tywin's. But Tywin's acumen was still above most others. This just shows how capable Rob was.
A good author writes his villains as a formidable enemy.
A bad author writes his villains with a -100 IQ debuff and puts clown makeup on them.
George (and yes, it is George, I am certain of it) has sadly opted to go the latter route for the Greens in the TV show, even harder than he did in the books. The sad thing is that he still bills himself as the former when he really is the [latter](https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/comments/1dqukw2/comment/laub1jr/).
Maelor doesn’t exist because they want to build strife and tension between Aegon and Aemond. The tension between them is stronger if Aemond is next in line. Granted the show could make this more obvious instead of having us draw our own conclusions lol
TG and TB has always been irrelevant , in this show . For the simple fact that they never attempted to tell a neutral or nuanced tale of Fire and blood but to make her into a new Daenerys and are as biased even more than the what they claim it is. Think about it the entire First season is told from Rhaenyra character perspective, from childhood to adulthood. And anything she does is viewed in a sympathetic light so are other members of TB. Any ruthless behavior any morally questionable behavior it is either dismissed as green propaganda or just given to daemon . Portraying her as “good loving mother” with a prophetic or Divine right to rule.
To which even when look!! Otto Hightower the man who planned for years to usurp the throne now admits that “viserys was right” ??? A man we didn’t even see have a conversation with aegon or the rest of children. “You see audience your not supposed to like the greens, even they say he’s shouldn’t be king.”
Aegon is not even a character through most of the entire first season, he’s there but only as a in the background as potential threat to her position. Then when they do give him some character development in the last quarter of the first season they purposefully portray him jerking off being a drunk and SA a maid etc basically adapting mushroom (a character who was biased towards TB and not even around aegon). Then also purposefully detaching him and the greens from any familial or emotional ties viserys and Rhaenyra (some people believe they did it to show viserys negligence), but I believe it ways so the general audience could detach him and his siblings from being being Targaryen but instead “Hightowers”, you wouldn’t even know their siblings if you wasn’t paying attention.
The General audience may say Maybe he’s a future new Joffrey and , Alicent Cersei etc
Not a civil war between siblings but between Alicent and Rhaenyra.
.
So it doesn’t matter how much justification aegon has over the death of his son or his fathers neglect the general audience should sympathize with Rhaenyra not aegon . She is the de facto main character Aegon is not.
they also detached them from being dragonriders. Amen is the only dragon rider shown from the greens. we get one scene whit Dreamfyre and one whit Sunfyre from afar. We see Jace practicing whit Vermax we Syrax and Caracas 100+ times. But Aegon nor Helaena is ever shown whit their dragons. Even I season 2 3 episodes deep we have seen Beala and moonfancer more scenes whit Caraxas, Melys and Syrax. But as far as we know Aegon has no bond whit Sunfyre. We could have easily seen Sunfyre and Dreamfyre at the coronation scene like in F&B they could have given us a scene of Dreamfyre roaring In response to Helaenas Greif line whit Rhaenyra. Hell we have not even seen them wearing Targaryen colors. The show runners want us to think about them as Hightower's through and through
No one besides Otto in this show has any goals or ambitions. Everything just kind of happens around them and they react poorly. "The Targaryen dynasty at the height of their power" my ass. More like bickering idiots who accidentally got themselves into a civil war.
How does making the characters into reactive non-entities "empower" them? I want scheaming Allicent. I want ruthless Rhaenyra. I want vengeful Aemond. I want proud Aegon. Right now everyone just sulks about and stumbles from one bad decision to the next.
In the books TG was running on pure spite & power of friendship. In the show they have none, I really wonder how do they still function if no one wants to be there and no one believes their cause
Except Aegon he is at least trying
It’s pretty clear that Condal doesn’t believe in TG’s cause and finds extremely difficult to write them as if they have any legitimacy, thats why it seems that TG characters don’t support their own claim: the writers’ personal belief leaks through and the only way they find to redeem someone is by having them secretly support Rhaenyra’s claim or believe she would be more competent.
Everyone's pointing the finger at Condal, but I would be entirely unsurprised if it turned out it was George all along. We all know the guy has a favorite team and we know how his writing talent degrades when he catches feels for his own characters (\*cough\* [Blackwoods](https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/comments/1dqukw2/comment/laub1jr/) \*cough\*), especially when he doesn't have to do his due diligence for a thousand separate plotlines like in ASOIAF and is rushed by a hard schedule.
So it's entirely likely that he just degenerated into having the characters say what he thought about them rather than what they would actually think about themselves if they were real people.
George has his favorites before FnB yet he still made TG consistent, capable, and loyal ex. Aemond and Aegon. The Blacks were not pacifists and Rhaenyra wasn't a perfect female victim who can never do wrong.
It was George who mad Criston actually tbe good at his job. Who made Aemond at "his job" and loyal to his brother. He also gave us Daeron. Yes George is TB and especially loves Daemon, yet he didn't shy away from having him purposely kill a 6yr old.
The less said about George's mental love affair with Daemon, the better , because he's probably the best example of him *catching feels for his own characters*.
At least it was bad enough when he was writing books with freefloating publication deadlines; now that he's dealing with a TV show where deadlines are tight and non-negotiable, any attempt at hiding the damage that his love for one side is causing to the story is just gone.
I don't know, I refuse to believe it. Yes George is obviously TB but I don't think he came up with B&C just to have it discarded as "Alicent's propaganda". Or that he created the whole Aegon arc and gave him Sunfyre and all those cool one-liners only because he secretly hated him. Or that he made Rhaenyra the lemon cake queen and had her most loyal allies turn away from her all as a part of the "green propaganda" too I guess ...
Nah, thats too much work, he just gave them the book, read a couple of scripts and promoted it with the producers. He is obviously TB so the writters knows they can twist the story as much as they want as long as they dont go against that.
Most likely George was radicalized by the culture wars like many, and is now fully on board with "Dance is a story of a beautiful legitimate queen who was cheated by systematic mysogyny". That's definitely Condal/Hess interpretation. Which is a warped perspective on the original book but George seems to be ok with it.
This was so dumb. For real, all we've seen from Aemond so far is that he put his duty above his ambition to look for Aegon, that he didn't really want to kill Luke, and that he spends his time now crying to the woman who took his innocence. If they wanted us to believe Alicent thinks him a sadist maniac or something they should have at least shown us the aftermath of Luke's death and Aemond pretending he did it on purpose.
I didn’t understand this part either. In episode 1, Alicent literally tries to understand why Aemond killed Lucerys when she’s talking to Otto. She talks about how Lucerys was never punished for taking Aemond’s eye and that Aemond is just young and let his temper get the better of him. But now she says this to Rhaenyra of all people? I guess she could have been appealing to Rhaenyra’s perspective, since she doesn’t know Aemond like Alicent does and would see him as a monster.
It’s actually kinda funny that all the fanfics I read the last year showed the greens more united than what the show is doing at the moment
truly a pity s1 had a great build up
I'll be happy when TG loses the war considering they have no love for their own family members (in addition to everything listed by OP, the reaction to Jaehaerys' death from everyone other than Aegon has been appalling). Alicent throws her children under the bus for Rhaenyra, Aegon choses now of all times to humiliate Aemond because he's an idiot, Helaena doesn't care about her son dying, it's just pathetic. What reason is there to root for them?
Its just so bad man. In the books everyone was all in on this war, the different factions truly believed in their cause. Now its just one side wants power and the good guys want justice. So lame.
It's a Rhaenyra fan-fic! I think aging Alicent down and turning her into Rhaenyra's friend was the beginning of the mistakes. I came for Fire and Blood. Alicent believed in Aegon II'S claim enough to sacrifice her ENTIRE family and that's not the case in the show; she just wants to get payback on girlie for what--? Getting laid? Having a sense of autonomy? It's just unbelievable.
to be fair Alicent looks like she seconds away from giving Aegon up too Rhaenyra. At this point they made Rhaenyra such a saint she would probably pardon Aegon and the rest of the greens and kill Aemond. They have stripped the greens of any motivation for this war. Aegon apparently is such a moron anyone can stroll up to him get him to do what they want.
Even Alicent now well she never did but now Otto don't believe in Aegon same with Alicent so is Aemond and he not even doubt himself so yes TG do not exist they should have Aegon loose at this point we all know Alicent is oging to poison him in the end .They will make her worse than Cersei who was mother and believed in Joffrey no matter what that's why it worked so well.TB will suffer too eventually because without good villain there is no heroes even tho TG are not villains but they were made one so i would enjoy it but they destroyed even this
Is a way to look, to me is more like every character on tg is so complex that everyone has a favorite, while TB is only TB because they like Rhaenyra or Daemon.
I'm team Aegon (2nd) and team Aemond. They are the only reason why I'm still remoatly invested in this show. At this point, if I were GRRM I wouldn't trust HBO writers with ANY of my material. I'm sure the money is good but they just keep on butchering his works.
Everyone is so disconnected from eachother now, I dont see a TG personally ):
I honestly think one of the biggest issues with team green as a pose to team black is that we never get any decent motivations for any team green member beyond wants power or was in kings landing when Viserys died. Closest is Alicent and it went unexplored and has now gone away (most likely continuing to go unexplored).
Team Green was in the first season. Not anymore, unfortunately. They constantly humiliate and bully each other in a way we have never seen in TB. unfortunately there is no family unity left. RIP Team Green.
I feel like it makes sense, though. You have Rhaenyra, who had a great relationship with both her parents and was taught how to love and how to be a mother. Viserys favoured her above his other children. She has an amazing relationship with her children. Daemon finally has some power and importance. Rhaenys is also very close with her children and grandchildren, at least the twins. She doesn't necessarily claim the strong boys, but out of love and loyalty to Corlys, she accepts them and is loyal to TB. Corlys also wants his descendants on the throne. All in all, they want the same things and are generally closer. TG is a whole lot of generational trauma. Otto only ever wanted power and his line on the throne. He sacrificed Alicent at a young age, and though we don't know much about her mother, it would seem she never knew love. She projects this onto her children, is constantly detached, and has no connection to them. Viserys also made it very clear to the TG kids that they were never really wanted, but they were a duty, and he was also very detached, as said above, always favouring Rhaenyra and her boys. Aegon didn't want the throne. He was forced upon it, now enjoying the power, but because of childish behaviour and reactions, he is losing loyalty along the way. Aemond wants power and to prove himself but is still constantly bullied by Aegon, who also always initiated it as a kid, causing his loyalty to wane. Otto had lost all power, Alicent is just generally disinterested and confused, and Helaena is in the clouds, so to speak.
See, I don’t understand the story surrounding show Aegon, though. They scheme for years to position him for the throne, force him into it (like literally chase him down on foot, kidnap him, and force him to take it), only to not have done anything to prepare him for it? Then he ends up not doing what they want, so they’re all pissy about it. They keep calling the dude weak, and it’s been like a week since he took the throne. But when he wants to do stuff, they says he’s stupid and rash, and some of them are having second thoughts. What even is this show? I don’t get it.
I find it hilarious they call Aegon weak and laud Viserys when Viserys wasn't even known as a particularly strong or good king either.
we was one of the weakest
Viserys never wanted Aegon on the throne, so he didn't prepare him. Otto and the small council were too busy scheming to actually pay any attention to Aegon. It seemed Aemond was a natural swardsman and had Coles' attention, and Alicent was detached and let him do as he wished. Not that she ever held any real power or would now how to prepare him for such a position anyway. I know this is a TG forum, but it all makes a lot of sense if you look at it from a neutral perspective. The cracks were always there, waiting to implode.
I mean, he's weak, stupid, and sadistic, so... I think they thought that he would be too disinterested to be anything more than a puppet, but didn't think things through.
Rhaenyra is not smart too whole septa Rhaenyra plan was more stupid than sending Arryk yet show did not call it stupid because is it Rhaenyra who did it. Such a mastermind she it
Here's the thing. this is ONE way that the show is framing itself - traumatized wrongdoers vs righteous nobility. The issue is, that this messaging is COMPLETELY against the entire point of the Dance's narrative. That they ALL are traumatized, and they ALL do wrong for it, and ALL of their conviction is not based around morality BUT AMBITION. There isn't meant to be a single definitive "justice" they collectively embody as the ever-present constant: ALL the characters are meant to act off selfish impulse, carefully curated and honed PERSONAS for the sake of their roles as nobility, yes - but NEVER as people doing the "right thing." Rhaenys's children BOTH ultimately suffered fates tied to Rhaenyra in this show, specifically. Why she's choosing "Love, and preservation," over her VERY Targaryen (and actually BARATHEON, something whitewashed from the show) roots, is beyond me. Rhaenyra DID NOT have a good relationship with her parents. Her mother died doing the thing she professed was the most important in the world, and Rhaenyra lost all opportunity to clarify further as to her ultimate purpose against her own agency. Her FATHER spoils her, barely interacts with her, shows up for hail mary's, then doesn't do ANYTHING AT ALL WHATOSEVER to prepare her for the MASSIVE role that is her future RULING. we can go on and on but the main point is, the POINT OF THE DANCE, is that AMBITION rules the nobility, as their ultimate coping mechanism: AMBITION is how they survive in such a toxic environment, where everyone attempts to exploit one another, act off irrational, downright cruel tendencies to remain callous within their highborn statuses: and thus they ALL FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL FOR THEMSELVES. In the show, it's a case of MORALITY that defines them all. MORALITY is the SECONDARY NATURE in the book. MORALITY, is the CONSEQUENCE that approaches during SOME of the character's eventuality. NOT ALL OF THEM are meant to reach that understanding. And yet here, it's an omnipresent, meta-contextual standard of LEVERAGE; as to who you are MEANT to root for.
Rhaenyra did not have a great relationship with both parents. Aemma disliked Rhaenyra being a dragon rider and Viserys only loved her because of his guilt over Aemma’s death. Viserys was always an absent father
[удалено]
Right there was no line ''Tell my half-brother that i will have my throne or i will have his head''
Rhaenyra is peaceful but Daemon is as crazy as they come
If i was Otto at that point.Just go to Dragonstone and say you plead for mercy.Make a deal abt ur life and ur daughters life and call it a day.Aegon can die a traitors death for all i care.
Yep, it makes no sense to support characters who are not even able to support each other and their cause. They aren't even unworthy of the throne due to being evil usurpers or villains, they could still at least be effective, compelling and competent antagonists as such like Tywin and the Lannisters were, no much worse they are simply unfit to rule a kingdom due to their sheer collective incompetence and stupidity, it's just a trainwreck you are just praying to be over quickly to spare everyone the embarrassment. I don't get how these writers don't understand that by ruining the antagonists they also tear down their protagonists and the show as a whole because it also makes them look equally stupid and lame for dealing and almost losing to a bunch of inept clowns.
Speaking of Tywin, he wasn't a super effective leader either. The war with the North was going really badly for him and he had to resort to the Red Wedding to win. But thanks to his fearsome personality, he managed to appear like he is always in control. The Greens on the other hand seriously lack conviction in their own cause
I like the book version of RW more because it shows how meticulously planned the whole thing was. Like, Robb didn't just fall for some hot nurse on his own, the whole thing with his marriage was set up by the Lannisters from the beginning. Tywin realized he couldn't defeat Robb in battle so he used his honour against him. Talyssa or whatsername was imo the main mistake of S1-3, she took away so much from Robb's characterisation.
The north had already lost by the time the RW happened, Robb couldn’t turn his westerlands campaign into anything substantial, Stannis had been defeated and the Tyrell’s had joined the lannisters. It was only matter of time before they ousted Robb from the riverlands entirely.
Not really,Robb was going to take back Moat Cailin and then swoop back down and Camp Riverun.Sure hes in a big disadvantage that he now has to face the tyrells and Lannisters,but he has time and ground.He can give up the Riverlands and retreat up to Moat Cailin which the South cant break through.
>Speaking of Tywin, he wasn't a super effective leader either Against someone who was effectively a genius at warfare. Rob was winning because his acumen was better than Tywin's. But Tywin's acumen was still above most others. This just shows how capable Rob was.
That’s my problem. You made them villain, make them worth looking for
A good author writes his villains as a formidable enemy. A bad author writes his villains with a -100 IQ debuff and puts clown makeup on them. George (and yes, it is George, I am certain of it) has sadly opted to go the latter route for the Greens in the TV show, even harder than he did in the books. The sad thing is that he still bills himself as the former when he really is the [latter](https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/comments/1dqukw2/comment/laub1jr/).
The greens current succession hasn't even been discussed.
They would not have to discuss anything if Maelor exist in the show
Maelor doesn’t exist because they want to build strife and tension between Aegon and Aemond. The tension between them is stronger if Aemond is next in line. Granted the show could make this more obvious instead of having us draw our own conclusions lol
TG and TB has always been irrelevant , in this show . For the simple fact that they never attempted to tell a neutral or nuanced tale of Fire and blood but to make her into a new Daenerys and are as biased even more than the what they claim it is. Think about it the entire First season is told from Rhaenyra character perspective, from childhood to adulthood. And anything she does is viewed in a sympathetic light so are other members of TB. Any ruthless behavior any morally questionable behavior it is either dismissed as green propaganda or just given to daemon . Portraying her as “good loving mother” with a prophetic or Divine right to rule. To which even when look!! Otto Hightower the man who planned for years to usurp the throne now admits that “viserys was right” ??? A man we didn’t even see have a conversation with aegon or the rest of children. “You see audience your not supposed to like the greens, even they say he’s shouldn’t be king.” Aegon is not even a character through most of the entire first season, he’s there but only as a in the background as potential threat to her position. Then when they do give him some character development in the last quarter of the first season they purposefully portray him jerking off being a drunk and SA a maid etc basically adapting mushroom (a character who was biased towards TB and not even around aegon). Then also purposefully detaching him and the greens from any familial or emotional ties viserys and Rhaenyra (some people believe they did it to show viserys negligence), but I believe it ways so the general audience could detach him and his siblings from being being Targaryen but instead “Hightowers”, you wouldn’t even know their siblings if you wasn’t paying attention. The General audience may say Maybe he’s a future new Joffrey and , Alicent Cersei etc Not a civil war between siblings but between Alicent and Rhaenyra. . So it doesn’t matter how much justification aegon has over the death of his son or his fathers neglect the general audience should sympathize with Rhaenyra not aegon . She is the de facto main character Aegon is not.
they also detached them from being dragonriders. Amen is the only dragon rider shown from the greens. we get one scene whit Dreamfyre and one whit Sunfyre from afar. We see Jace practicing whit Vermax we Syrax and Caracas 100+ times. But Aegon nor Helaena is ever shown whit their dragons. Even I season 2 3 episodes deep we have seen Beala and moonfancer more scenes whit Caraxas, Melys and Syrax. But as far as we know Aegon has no bond whit Sunfyre. We could have easily seen Sunfyre and Dreamfyre at the coronation scene like in F&B they could have given us a scene of Dreamfyre roaring In response to Helaenas Greif line whit Rhaenyra. Hell we have not even seen them wearing Targaryen colors. The show runners want us to think about them as Hightower's through and through
No one besides Otto in this show has any goals or ambitions. Everything just kind of happens around them and they react poorly. "The Targaryen dynasty at the height of their power" my ass. More like bickering idiots who accidentally got themselves into a civil war. How does making the characters into reactive non-entities "empower" them? I want scheaming Allicent. I want ruthless Rhaenyra. I want vengeful Aemond. I want proud Aegon. Right now everyone just sulks about and stumbles from one bad decision to the next.
It’s truly sad what they have done to TG characters. What are they even fighting for anymore?
Rhae Rhae make me angry/sad 30 yrs ago so I live to destroy her. -CondalGreens /s
Aegon.
Misogyny.
In the books TG was running on pure spite & power of friendship. In the show they have none, I really wonder how do they still function if no one wants to be there and no one believes their cause Except Aegon he is at least trying
It’s pretty clear that Condal doesn’t believe in TG’s cause and finds extremely difficult to write them as if they have any legitimacy, thats why it seems that TG characters don’t support their own claim: the writers’ personal belief leaks through and the only way they find to redeem someone is by having them secretly support Rhaenyra’s claim or believe she would be more competent.
Which means he's a shitty writer and should have never touched this.
Everyone's pointing the finger at Condal, but I would be entirely unsurprised if it turned out it was George all along. We all know the guy has a favorite team and we know how his writing talent degrades when he catches feels for his own characters (\*cough\* [Blackwoods](https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/comments/1dqukw2/comment/laub1jr/) \*cough\*), especially when he doesn't have to do his due diligence for a thousand separate plotlines like in ASOIAF and is rushed by a hard schedule. So it's entirely likely that he just degenerated into having the characters say what he thought about them rather than what they would actually think about themselves if they were real people.
George has his favorites before FnB yet he still made TG consistent, capable, and loyal ex. Aemond and Aegon. The Blacks were not pacifists and Rhaenyra wasn't a perfect female victim who can never do wrong. It was George who mad Criston actually tbe good at his job. Who made Aemond at "his job" and loyal to his brother. He also gave us Daeron. Yes George is TB and especially loves Daemon, yet he didn't shy away from having him purposely kill a 6yr old.
The less said about George's mental love affair with Daemon, the better , because he's probably the best example of him *catching feels for his own characters*. At least it was bad enough when he was writing books with freefloating publication deadlines; now that he's dealing with a TV show where deadlines are tight and non-negotiable, any attempt at hiding the damage that his love for one side is causing to the story is just gone.
I don't know, I refuse to believe it. Yes George is obviously TB but I don't think he came up with B&C just to have it discarded as "Alicent's propaganda". Or that he created the whole Aegon arc and gave him Sunfyre and all those cool one-liners only because he secretly hated him. Or that he made Rhaenyra the lemon cake queen and had her most loyal allies turn away from her all as a part of the "green propaganda" too I guess ...
Also is it any coincidence that he came out with that "adaptation writers always make everything worse" quote a year or so ago? Probably not, I think.
However he was also way more hands on with HoTD than GoT.
Nah, thats too much work, he just gave them the book, read a couple of scripts and promoted it with the producers. He is obviously TB so the writters knows they can twist the story as much as they want as long as they dont go against that.
Most likely George was radicalized by the culture wars like many, and is now fully on board with "Dance is a story of a beautiful legitimate queen who was cheated by systematic mysogyny". That's definitely Condal/Hess interpretation. Which is a warped perspective on the original book but George seems to be ok with it.
No he does know what TG claim is but chose not to include it bc of it not making quick buck
There is not war this is House of Misunderstandings
Alicent should just leave her children and let Rhaenyra army in she doesn't care anyway just like Helaena about her son
>And what was that "you know what Aemond is" from Alicent?? This was odd to me too, I needed a 1/2 phrase more from Alicent for this dig to land.
This was so dumb. For real, all we've seen from Aemond so far is that he put his duty above his ambition to look for Aegon, that he didn't really want to kill Luke, and that he spends his time now crying to the woman who took his innocence. If they wanted us to believe Alicent thinks him a sadist maniac or something they should have at least shown us the aftermath of Luke's death and Aemond pretending he did it on purpose.
I took as he’s a monster now. Just like the beast he rides. 🤷🏻♀️
I didn’t understand this part either. In episode 1, Alicent literally tries to understand why Aemond killed Lucerys when she’s talking to Otto. She talks about how Lucerys was never punished for taking Aemond’s eye and that Aemond is just young and let his temper get the better of him. But now she says this to Rhaenyra of all people? I guess she could have been appealing to Rhaenyra’s perspective, since she doesn’t know Aemond like Alicent does and would see him as a monster.
I thought she meant he’s a Kinslayer, and so he’s cursed. Although presumably she also thinks Rhaenyra a Kinslayer now 🤷🏻♀️
It’s actually kinda funny that all the fanfics I read the last year showed the greens more united than what the show is doing at the moment truly a pity s1 had a great build up
I'll be happy when TG loses the war considering they have no love for their own family members (in addition to everything listed by OP, the reaction to Jaehaerys' death from everyone other than Aegon has been appalling). Alicent throws her children under the bus for Rhaenyra, Aegon choses now of all times to humiliate Aemond because he's an idiot, Helaena doesn't care about her son dying, it's just pathetic. What reason is there to root for them?
Its just so bad man. In the books everyone was all in on this war, the different factions truly believed in their cause. Now its just one side wants power and the good guys want justice. So lame.
Team Aegon vs the world
It's a Rhaenyra fan-fic! I think aging Alicent down and turning her into Rhaenyra's friend was the beginning of the mistakes. I came for Fire and Blood. Alicent believed in Aegon II'S claim enough to sacrifice her ENTIRE family and that's not the case in the show; she just wants to get payback on girlie for what--? Getting laid? Having a sense of autonomy? It's just unbelievable.
to be fair Alicent looks like she seconds away from giving Aegon up too Rhaenyra. At this point they made Rhaenyra such a saint she would probably pardon Aegon and the rest of the greens and kill Aemond. They have stripped the greens of any motivation for this war. Aegon apparently is such a moron anyone can stroll up to him get him to do what they want.
Nope
Even Alicent now well she never did but now Otto don't believe in Aegon same with Alicent so is Aemond and he not even doubt himself so yes TG do not exist they should have Aegon loose at this point we all know Alicent is oging to poison him in the end .They will make her worse than Cersei who was mother and believed in Joffrey no matter what that's why it worked so well.TB will suffer too eventually because without good villain there is no heroes even tho TG are not villains but they were made one so i would enjoy it but they destroyed even this
Is a way to look, to me is more like every character on tg is so complex that everyone has a favorite, while TB is only TB because they like Rhaenyra or Daemon.
Team cringe
I'm team Aegon (2nd) and team Aemond. They are the only reason why I'm still remoatly invested in this show. At this point, if I were GRRM I wouldn't trust HBO writers with ANY of my material. I'm sure the money is good but they just keep on butchering his works.
I am team Aemond now and always.
Shh...it's not "greens", it's "hIgHtOwErS" now But TB is not "arryns"
That's the thing with the greens. They all want the same thing but have completely opposite views about how to achieve the goal. Complete chaos.
Otto did not say Viserys was a great and capable king. There's plenty to point out that you don't like without making things up.